Ariane 6 VA262 | Demo Flight - ESA Rideshares

[split gate]

Look at quoted message

[verbal escarp]

Yeah that one doesn’t look as great

[thorn sun]

i know

but like

[serene plinth]

yeah

[thorn sun]

z isn’t an emoji

[serene plinth]

could use some improvements

[leaden hatch]

Eh at least if it did get picked the model would be adjusted by actual LEGO designers

[split gate]

It's Açores in Portuguese

[leaden hatch]

for better or for worse...

[vernal fulcrum]

For those wanting the timeline

[robust pike]

from everyday astronaut livestream

[split gate]

Average YouTube comment

[torn jackal]

https://fxtwitter.com/servomechanica/status/1810756377654218828

[verbal escarp]

Smh it’s off center get better arianespace

[serene plinth]

first try

too ez

[cunning spoke]

hol' on since when there's CNES logo

[vernal ibex]

beat ng to ti

[vernal ibex]

entree burn bruned ti off

[serene plinth]

yep

[cunning spoke]

I mean it wasn't there on rollout

[serene plinth]

and the sticker is white in the background on the front

and transparent on the back

looks so shit

[serene plinth]

they added it yesterday or the day before

[vernal ibex]

average raiload museum decals

[cunning spoke]

BRUH

[serene plinth]

just very shortly before launch

dunno why

[verbal escarp]

Yeah that’s pretty ugly

[vernal ibex]

lost my ism tray

ssim tray

[vernal ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1247821516960432268/1260318617925582968/1045099499728678912.gif

[random glacier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1247821516960432268/1260318617925582968/1045099499728678912.gif

[torn jackal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1247821516960432268/1260318617925582968/1045099499728678912.gif

[restive sequoia]

Ok yes @serene plinth 's moc looks way better

[leaden hatch]

What does the FM1 designation on this flight stand for

[vernal trellis]

Flight Model

[leaden hatch]

Is it from Arianespace or ESA?

[vernal trellis]

I believe it references the hardware, similar to ULA's AV designation for Atlas V and V designation for Vulcan

[leaden hatch]

I'm trying to figure out how to title this entry on my list

[vernal fulcrum]

How did you name Ariane 5 flights ?

[leaden hatch]

Usually I put the mission name(s) with the flight number in parentheses below it

[vernal fulcrum]

Would be Demo Flight (VA262)

[leaden hatch]

these are the names I have listed for the two A5 flights I've seen live

if the LSP has a special name for the launch (like with Rocket Lab's missions) then that is what gets listed first

[thorn sun]

you didn’t see jwst live?

[vernal fulcrum]

FYI, "Destination Jupiter" isn't an official name

[leaden hatch]

otherwise it's either the (primary) payload's mission name or a single designation on rideshare missions like Transporter

[vernal fulcrum]

It's not even in the press kit

[thorn sun]

transporter is just like

transporter x

[vernal ibex]

videos

[thorn sun]

💀

[split gate]

Erffli moment

[thorn sun]

nxf moment tbh

chat clean

[split gate]

Oh wait I just got the joke

[leaden hatch]

like here's a few other examples of my naming scheme

[vernal fulcrum]

ESA press kit, Arianespace one & Arianespace launch announcement

Not "Destination Jupiter"

[leaden hatch]

wat

[vernal fulcrum]

It was just the stream name for some reason

To hype it up

[leaden hatch]

wait so...

[wild stump]

VINCI RELIGHT

[leaden hatch]

is this wrong too?

also SES-2

[vernal trellis]

SECO-2

Nominal orbit

Payload deployment starts in ~6 minutes

[vernal fulcrum]

Technically it's wrong yeah, because "Golden Horizon" is the name of the Arianespace stream/show accompanying the launch, but not of the launch itself

[verbal escarp]

I thought there were 3 burns?

[wild stump]

yes there's another one

will be 28 seconds long

[leaden hatch]

fock

[vernal fulcrum]

The third one is in 1h30 roughly

[leaden hatch]

well that explains why I couldn't find mission names for any of their other launches...

[verbal escarp]

Oh it comes after payload deployment?

[vernal trellis]

There are, the 3rd one is the deorbit

[vernal trellis]

Yes

[verbal escarp]

Ah

I see

[vernal fulcrum]

No

[vernal trellis]

And after the 3rd burn the 2 reentry capsules will separate

[austere raven]

For de-orbiting
Then the two re-entry capsules from ArianeGroup and The Exploration Company will separate

[vernal trellis]

Yes, otherwise the 2 capsules won't be able to reenter

[leaden hatch]

ok so this is what I have for the name...

[vernal fulcrum]

Yeah I see what you mean, I just count it as a burn to put them on the right trajectory like the other two

[hot holly]

Second maiden flight of next generation rocket this year

[thorn sun]

where are they reentering

[mental radish]

point NEMO

[vernal fulcrum]

Why do you name only one sat ?

[opaque zephyr]

Did the thing work

[vernal trellis]

Yes

[vernal fulcrum]

It did

[leaden hatch]

because it's a mission name and not the name of the satellites

[split gate]

Still a burn left but yes

[hot holly]

it’s working so far, missions still not done

[leaden hatch]

(I could be wrong tho)

[vernal fulcrum]

It's only the mission name of two of the satellite onboard, not all of them

[opaque zephyr]

We need a Walmart out here type shit

[hot holly]

Earth

[thorn sun]

rip

[vernal trellis]

1st separation batch confirmed

[thorn sun]

dollar general

[vernal trellis]

2nd separation batch confirmed

[serene plinth]

POG VIEW

[vernal fulcrum]

VERY VIEW

[thorn sun]

also slug have you ever done launch photography i forgor

[leaden hatch]

Yeah I'm not entirely pleased with how I've put down ELaNa missions

[vernal trellis]

3rd separation batch confirmed as well

Only the 2 reentry capsules remain

[leaden hatch]

but with my system the ELaNa names wouldn't appear anywhere else otherwise

[split gate]

one (1) dolar

[thorn sun]

one (1) employee for the entire store

[leaden hatch]

unless the satellites have secondary designations like "ELaNa-48A, ELaNa-48B" that I don't know about...

[vernal fulcrum]

They do actually

[outer berry]

🥳

[vernal fulcrum]

ELaNa program sat on this launch is the NASA CURIE

[opaque zephyr]

Not up close because ✨ITAR✨ but yes the trails

[thorn sun]

wait how up close do you mean

you can get 2.5mi from SLC-4 during non RTLS missions now

general public access iirc

[leaden hatch]

generally what I do for the sat names is have the primary name listed with the secondary one in parentheses below it

[wild stump]

ARIANE IS BACK

[leaden hatch]

(I know a lot of this is kinda clunky but I like having as much info as I can)

[leaden hatch]

this only has it listed as CURIE

[vernal fulcrum]

Because that's the name of the sat

ELaNa is the name of a NASA program

https://www.nasa.gov/upcoming-elana-cubesat-launches/

[leaden hatch]

but ELaNa-48 is the name for the specific mission that CURIE is part of

like how the cubesats packed with CRS SpX-30 were ELaNa-51

yey more replays

[vernal fulcrum]

Yet the launch mission name still is CRS-30

(Or CRS SpX-30)

[leaden hatch]

I do actually have it listed as both CRS SpX-30 and ELaNa-51 on my list...

point is, my system is weird and somewhat inconsistent despite my best efforts

[vernal fulcrum]

Then I guess you named Transporter-10 ELaNa-57

[vernal fulcrum]

ELaNa numbers are irrelevant imo, that's just an internal NASA thing for their cubesat program and not the real name of the sats

[opaque zephyr]

Like engine type thing

[thorn sun]

ohhhhh like an engine shot gotcha

what shots have you gotten

[vernal fulcrum]

Third burn in one hour, see you there

[wild stump]

https://x.com/SenBillNelson/status/1810757128967077894

Bill Nelson (@SenBillNelson) on X

Liftoff, #Ariane6!

What a giant leap forward for @ESA with the first launch of its powerful, next-generation rocket—and with a @NASASun scientific instrument onboard.

Together with our international partners, we are leading a new era of space exploration.

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 7:25 PM

[vernal fulcrum]

We made Bill happy

[leaden hatch]

bill

[vernal ibex]

Bill.

[vernal ibex]

Ok that was non intentional

I meant videos on strem

[vernal ibex]

They're keeping more video coverage than the last starship flight

[wild stump]

https://x.com/Armee_de_lair/status/1810777746207035544

Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace (@Armee_de_lair) on X

Aujourd’hui, à 21h00 (heure de Paris), s’est déroulé avec succès le tir inaugural de la fusée #Ariane6, conduit depuis le Centre spatial guyanais à Kourou. En complément de l'opération #TITAN mené par les @Armees_Guyane, un #DPSA a sécurisé ce lancement.

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 8:47 PM

FUCK

HOT

[serene plinth]

[vernal trellis]

JOOOOOOOOOO

[verbal escarp]

HOLY CRAP

[zealous birch]

thats kinda fire i cant lie

[austere raven]

They have more ground stations over the ground track and this is at 580 km high so naturally more time over horizons

[scarlet harbor]

🤨

[vernal trellis]

[vernal ibex]

[torn jackal]

[austere raven]

APU not working properly?

[wild stump]

We didn't hear the Third APU start up call
But APU's thrust alone shouldn't cause such a divergence

[vernal trellis]

Could also have been a slightly too early shutdown for the 2nd Vinci burn

Resulting in a slightly lower apogee

[wild stump]

They did say "correct trajectory" after 2nd vinci cut off

could have been within the margin of error but not perfect

[serene plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-poker-face-ali-exclusive-gif-22864634

[scarlet harbor]

Updated now with re-entry

[austere raven]

Hmm I wonder if the green line is correct - that seems to imply apogee at like 650 km
The current orbit is almost circular
I bet that this is not important for this first flight

[wild stump]

A bit weird that it should increase altitude in the first place, shouldn't they have gone to a circular orbit

[austere raven]

On another server someone says this is to increase the entry energy for the riding re-entry capsules

[scarlet harbor]

A bit far forward in the orbit map, but still within the green circle

Altitude starting to decrease

[thorn sun]

huh so an extra burn?

[torn jackal]

So why would it not be listed on the predicted trajectory lol

[scarlet harbor]

Altitude decreasing at ~1km per minute

[vernal trellis]

They have a low-thrust APU, which they use the settle the propellant for a burn. This would slowly raise the orbit

[thorn sun]

which it evidently isn’t doing

[vernal trellis]

Yellow cross is now in front of the green circle

[vernal trellis]

Would be a big problem for the upcoming de-orbit burn in ~10 minutes

[thorn sun]

well i more meant like

it isn’t raising the orbit

[vernal trellis]

But if it isn't raising the orbit

it isn't working

Which would be a problem

[scarlet harbor]

What did mission control just say?

[restive sequoia]

What if it's pointing the oposite way and instead lowering the orbit

Are we sure the APU provides enough thrust to cause such a 100km altitude difference?

[serene plinth]

it very likely doesnt have enough dV for that

[wild stump]

yes, that's a significant divergence

[vernal trellis]

https://x.com/SpaceNews_Inc/status/1810788556052254992

SpaceNews (@SpaceNews_Inc) on X

Ariane 6 performs flawlessly on long-awaited first flight https://t.co/4JmIydyV04

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 9:30 PM

Hmmm

A little too early?

[serene plinth]

music

[mental radish]

liftoff of the second ariane 6

[serene plinth]

[vernal trellis]

They're acknowledging the issue...

[serene plinth]

ja

[scarlet harbor]

Off-nominal trajectory due to APU switching off a few seconds after most recent ignition

[vernal trellis]

Due to "safety measures"

[serene plinth]

prob some tank pressures or temps not quite right or so

[scarlet harbor]

Awaiting decision on whether to proceed with 3rd VINCI burn

[serene plinth]

they better be

[scarlet harbor]

Meanwhile Starlink Group 9-3 just got announced

[thorn sun]

ohhh i get wym

[austere raven]

What’s different from this APU than e.g. ullage thrusters used on Centaur?

[thorn sun]

it’s spinning???

[thorn sun]

how much time do they have to decide

[vernal trellis]

Yeah very aggresively it seems like

[vernal trellis]

Burn should have happened by now

[thorn sun]

spinning is never bad for a spacecraft 😭😭

[thorn sun]

shit

I THOUGHT WE WERE SAFE FROM STEPHANE’S TEARS😭😭😭

i do not understand how is hair isn’t grayer bc damn

he’s been through a lot

[vernal trellis]

https://x.com/Arianespace/status/1810791683589652938

Arianespace (@Arianespace) on X

🚀success for #Ariane6’s inaugural flight!

👏🏾to @esa @CNES @ArianeGroup & #Arianespace teams
A historic achievement for European autonomous #AccessToSpace

➡ More agile & performant, Ariane 6 will best adapt to our customers’ evolving needs globally.

https://t.co/hZK0GplfiG

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 9:42 PM

[thorn sun]

scheduled tweet

[swift summit]

Lmao

[vernal trellis]

Oh yeah lmao

[verbal escarp]

Wait is he crying I’m not watching

[thorn sun]

no but he normally does when there’s a failure

only one external payload is in danger though so who knows

[swift summit]

Partial failure

[thorn sun]

[torn jackal]

WOO

Needs more zoom though

[vernal trellis]

[vernal ibex]

New European space fail emoji

[verbal escarp]

Lmao

[swift summit]

So they’re just gonna fts it?

[vernal trellis]

I don't think so

[mental radish]

no

[vernal trellis]

Will create lots of debris

Probably will just passivate it and let it decay

[mental radish]

they’ll try and likely just deorbit it for as much battery of whatever life they have and if that fails then they let it naturally deorbit

[swift summit]

Should all burn up though

[swift summit]

Maybe

[mental radish]

it’s in a 600km circular orbit

it’ll just be literal debri

[vernal trellis]

Eventually, but it'll be just like the Russian satellite that broke up recently

[mental radish]

of like a whole S2

and will be like that for years possibly

if they FTS it

[swift summit]

Oh I see i thought someone said it was de orbiting now but nvm

[vernal trellis]

It was supposed to

But it isn't

[torn jackal]

So Europe can into space but they can't out of space

[thorn sun]

nah FTS has been safed for a hot second

[wild stump]

FTS has been safed for like 2 hours

[scarlet harbor]

600km is a higher orbit than the satellite Russia did an ASAT test on a few years ago

[thorn sun]

as soon as it’s going fast enough to burn in the atmosphere FTS becomes more of a hindrance than a help

[swift summit]

nsf was in chat claiming they’re going to fts but obviously not

[random glacier]

fts in leo 💀

[thorn sun]

[torn jackal]

beautiful

ooh press conference time?

[vernal trellis]

In 35 minutes

[swift summit]

Definitely last time I listen to anything they say lol

[vernal trellis]

They're wrapping up coverage

[torn jackal]

oh finally you've come to the light

[thorn sun]

lots of spin

[serene plinth]

wow spiiiin

[random glacier]

seems like the spin is bouncing back and forth

animation is

gooft

do we know how many payloads deployed

[vernal trellis]

8

2 reentry capsules did not

[thorn sun]

how bad is this for ariane

[thorn sun]

do we know fs that they can’t do anything abt it or could they try and deorbit ahajn

[hot holly]

I just woke up

Can someone give me the lore breakdown

[thorn sun]

pad shot…

[thorn sun]

fancy ullage had an aborted burn therefore causing an aborted deorbit burn so now it’s just ???

[vernal trellis]

It launched, successfully deployed the payloads (except the 2 reentry capsules), but then the APU failed resulting in an off-nominal trajectory and it looks like they cannot perform the deorbit burn

[thorn sun]

most of the paylosds*

[wild stump]

They called it an anomaly and there will probably be an investigation and additional APU tests for correction and moderate delays, but it's probably one of the more minor failures they could have had.

[vernal trellis]

Yeah, although I doubt we'll see the 2nd launch this year as currently planned

[wild stump]

2nd launch this year was already a tall order tbh

[vernal trellis]

For sure

[torn jackal]

poor the exploration company

only stakeholder here worth caring about

I wonder if they can still sep bikini and just pray

[thorn sun]

at 600km?

[thorn sun]

rest in pepperoni more ariane 6 this year

[torn jackal]

maybe they can pulse the vents as they passivate the stage to push it down a little bit

[thorn sun]

i mean ariane also has something

[torn jackal]

I said worth caring about

[austere raven]

No, the engine can’t restart now because the Vinci use the APU to spin up the turbopumps
Heck looking at the cameras I suspect the whole RCS is down as well

This is worse than the Starship flight 3 spin issue: No-one expects the next Starship to launch GPS satellites or your nation’s next generation optical spysat (which the French is planning for A6 with transferred-from-Soyuz CSO-3 on 2nd A6)
This happened in nominally post-S/C sep, but who knows if the APU shuts down earlier in flight next time?

My guess is no more A6 for 2024

[mental radish]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-kiryu-kazuma-its-so-over-ps2-gif-16662113689094319032

[swift summit]

I’m sure they’ll be fine

[verbal escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/no-the-office-michael-scott-scream-gif-16929305

[thorn sun]

so the APU can’t be turned back on after it’s been turned off?

[mental radish]

nah but it failed

i think

[austere raven]

This usually isn’t such a big problem if not for the fact that Europe actually had to “go back to space”
But they don’t have any other rocket to launch those high priority missions, which means this HAS to be fixed while the pressure is on to repeat the successful parts again and again
I feel this might be more difficult than we think

[austere raven]

[mental radish]

as in like computer forced it to shut down

in a way it can’t be restarted

as safety precaution or smth

[thorn sun]

yeah idk if anyone really wants to use the ol reliable vega

[thorn sun]

do we know that or is that a guess

[mental radish]

guess

complete fucking guess

i am clueless

[torn jackal]

no other rocket
SpaceX: "why do I hear boss music"

[restive sequoia]

On the other hand, the epic Peregrinus payload could now possibly collect way more data than anticipated, since it should have ceased to exist at this point (but didnt)

[verbal escarp]

It’s actually depressing it failed like this

I feel sad now

[swift summit]

One of the most boring failures

[wild stump]

This wouldn't be a failure in china

[split gate]

Wait did it fail???

[wild stump]

Deorbit burn didn't happen and likely won't happen

[split gate]

But the payload deployed successfully?

[wild stump]

Two of the payloads were suborbital and were supposed to separated after the deorbit burn, so you're free to call it a partial failure

the orbital payloads yes, succesful

[split gate]

Gotcha

Which payloads were suborbital?

[wild stump]

Two small reentry capsules (the coolest payloads)

[split gate]

From who?

[thorn sun]

the what

[thorn sun]

ariane and the exploration company

[random glacier]

yeah 😭

[wild stump]

The Exploration Company and an Internal Arianegroup subsidiary

[split gate]

Ah shit it was the Exporation Company thing Shortline was telling me about

[random glacier]

yeah nix thingy

[vernal fulcrum]

[thorn sun]

wait so what was the reentry thing for

[vernal trellis]

Yes, what flew today was a small scale demo

[thorn sun]

oh cool

are there any pics

also why is it called bikini

[wild stump]

Thanksfully they've already moved forward from this thanks to the A6 delays

[torn jackal]

Conference time

[split gate]

Who are they flying with now?

[split gate]

Actually wait I don't even need to ask

[wild stump]

Press conference on

[split gate]

Of course it's F9

[wild stump]

F9

yes

2025

[torn jackal]

Actually, PSLV for the next demo

[vernal trellis]

Because it's a naked version of their capsule (no joke)

[wild stump]

nope

[torn jackal]

wait what since when

[split gate]

Oh nice then

[wild stump]

The bikini that launched (but didn't comeback today) was briefly supposed to launch onPSLV for a few months

[vernal trellis]

Bikini was supposed to be PSLV, but then moved back to Ariane 6

[torn jackal]

ah smh

should have stayed put

[wild stump]

Next is F9, and the final capsule will be "launcher agnostic"

[torn jackal]

funniest possible outcome: neutron is a commercial failure for cargo but they go all in on crewtron and it fits a nice little niche there

[thorn sun]

for the full scale one??

[split gate]

Are they gonna need to do a rerun of this mission or just move on to whatever they were gonna do next?

[thorn sun]

💀💀💀

[torn jackal]

probably next

[thorn sun]

dang it’s a lot tinier than i imagined for a capsule

[split gate]

I didn't even remember this program existing until yesterday it was a blind guess

[vernal trellis]

No, but larger then Bikini. It'll fly on a Transporter or Bandwagon (dont know which one from the top of my head)

[thorn sun]

dearmoon on

[thorn sun]

i didnt remember until like 5 minutes ago

[thorn sun]

ahhh

is the large one basically cargo dragon

[swift summit]

Lmao

[thorn sun]

WHAT

they said the line

[wild stump]

Conference ison

so far they congratulate for the launch

[verbal escarp]

Or it was at least

[swift summit]

Anything interesting from this press conference?

[vernal trellis]

So far, no, they're still at the opening remarks

[vernal fulcrum]

*nominale

[zealous birch]

so what happened at the end of the flight

[verbal escarp]

Yeah but it’s meant to be funny like how EDA says norminal and John said that once too iirc

[wild stump]

Now they're talking abotu the anomaly

[vernal trellis]

They've passivated the stage

So no deorbit burn

[austere raven]

The APU used to power things like spinning up Vinci's turbopumps and (direct? indirect?) RCS control etc. failed during its 3rd firing, during the coast phase
Which means the de-orbit burn failed to occur and the 2 re-entry capsules from customers are stranded in orbit

[verbal escarp]

So will it be marked as a partial failure then I’m assuming?

[serene plinth]

wonder if they'll still deploy the payloads

[zealous birch]

so launch successful but mission partially

[vernal trellis]

Yup

[thorn sun]

nah i don’t think it counts as a launch success

[zealous birch]

how come

[thorn sun]

the vehicle failed to deliver 2 of its payloads to the correct trajectory, and those vehicles were not able to get there themselves

[zealous birch]

it got into its orbit didnt it?

[serene plinth]

yes

[austere raven]

This is another of those gray area cases
I...dunno. Actually I lean on giving it a "P" but given the major part is to prove things till the cubesats separation, if the consensus is "success" I wouldn't object

[wild stump]

"no consequences on next launches"
[X] doubt

[thorn sun]

it’s like if falcon got into a nominal LEO but failed to reignite to burn for GTO

[zealous birch]

yeah so the mission wasnt fully successful but it got to its designated orbit

[wild stump]

not quite, the relight for the orbital payload went right

[zealous birch]

well no cuz from what i can tell it did get to the orbit but didnt de orbit

so its like a 2nd stage merlin failing to reignite

[thorn sun]

it’s definitely a partial failure

[wild stump]

It's a partial failure of the mission yes, if you view it as "one strike and you're out"

[zealous birch]

launch id argue was successful

[thorn sun]

which would be an issue if it had a payload on it right

[zealous birch]

yeah, so it would be partial mission success

or partial failure whatever u wanna call it

same thing

[torn jackal]

it didn't go perfectly, it didn't blow up, obvious choice is...

[austere raven]

Reminds me of Dragon CRS-1, October 2012
One of 9 Merlin on 1st stage blew in flight, upper stage used more propellant, Dragon separated in normal orbit but the one Orbcomm comsat hitchiking was dropped in lower orbit after orbit circulation burn did not occur (apparently there was still enough fuel but NASA requested more fuel margins for this 1st operational CRS mission)

[thorn sun]

yeah that’s why it’s a partial failure

[zealous birch]

ye but partial mission failure is not the same as partial launch failure

apollo 13 launched perfectly yet the mission was a failure

[swift summit]

Well what would a partial launch failure be

[thorn sun]

S-II would like a word with you lmao

[mental radish]

getting into the wrong insertion orbit

like firefly’s mission

[zealous birch]

lower than intended orbit, knocked out engine, problems

yeah

[mental radish]

got into orbit but lower than intended

[split gate]

NXF users be like was it a success or partial failure? My brother in Christ we are derived apes with brains hopelessly ill-equipped to understand the true state of the universe, so we deconstruct a world of gradients into black and white boxes.

[austere raven]

Apollo 6

[vernal trellis]

https://x.com/planet4589/status/1810808086770102374?t=XOeJnlgtilV40p96DMatcw&s=19

Jonathan McDowell (@planet4589) on X

Ariane 6 upper stage was passivated after the second burn, and remains in orbit with the two reentry capsules still attached. I am counting this as 'secondary payload unusable orbit' per https://t.co/HSB5FFtuPJ and scoring the success value as 0.85.

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 10:47 PM

[swift summit]

Well ye then it’s a partial mission failure

[vernal trellis]

This is what the orbital police has to say about it

[zealous birch]

partial partial failure it is

[vernal fulcrum]

Definitely a partial failure/partial success

There is no arguing

[thorn sun]

mission failure is what would happen if the payload failed, launch failure happens when the vehicle fails

[restive sequoia]

Payload made by high school students not far from where I live
Imagine following math class, then history class, then Ariane 6 experimental payload development class, then french class...

[zealous birch]

eh who cares i aint in charge of nxf

[thorn sun]

HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS FLYING HARDWARE??

[austere raven]

JCM's case standard for "0.85 success" is 2012-054 Falcon 9 (primary perfect, secondary unusable)...i.e. Dragon CRS-1 as I mentioned above
We gave it "Partial Failure"

[random glacier]

rocket did not hit piers morgan on the head, unacceptable mission failure

[split gate]

Anyway my take is that it should be a partial launch vehicle failure because the failure was caused by the launch vehicle and not the payload, simple as. If it had been a kick stage produced by end user to deorbit by themselves then it would be a partial mission failure, but the failure was caused by the LSP.

[vernal trellis]

Yes the app has partial failure for that one

[zealous birch]

if starship was going for LEO and then was to come back down and land, and it got to LEO but it failed to reignite to de orbit, would that be a launch success or a partial launch failure?

[vernal fulcrum]

Most of the payloads on that mission were from different (european) schools

[vernal trellis]

Depends on if it deploys payloads after the deorbit burn

[split gate]

If the Starship was just coming back to land empty for reuse then it'd be a success. If it was taking a payload back down with it then it would be a partial failure.

[zealous birch]

alright

[thorn sun]

starship is a different beast tbh

[vernal fulcrum]

Why are people even arguing, the upper stage failed to reignite --> part if the rocket failed --> partial failure/partial success

Simple

[zealous birch]

yeah but reignite for a de orbit burn

[austere raven]

Probably the former since the Starship is treated as like first stage boosters once the payload is deployed
There are some variations that would make it a failure but that requires some very specific failure modes (e.g. STS-107...launch caused falling debris to damage "Payload" which is Space Shuttle Columbia and later caused LOC/LOM)

[leaden hatch]

Which was required for two of the payloads

[vernal fulcrum]

Why doubt ? There is no need to reignite Vinci on the next few launches

[zealous birch]

half the cubesats on SLS failed and that was a success

[leaden hatch]

The cubesats failed

SLS didn't

[zealous birch]

tbf

[verbal escarp]

The vehicle failed in a mission critical way, therefore it’s a 🟧 partial failure

[vernal fulcrum]

That's why I didn't agree to call it de-orbit burn earlier this evening, because it's a third payload deployment burn, weither the trajectory becomes suborbital or not
At least in my opinion

[thorn sun]

that’s a mission failure bc it’s on the payload side but sls got them to where they needed to be

[zealous birch]

yeah i realised

bad example

but yeah idk

let the important people decide

[thorn sun]

overall great day for ariane

[split gate]

https://tenor.com/view/borat-very-nice-great-success-yes-gif-13625290

[zealous birch]

nice to see a european launch again

[thorn sun]

https://x.com/TAbusnardo/status/1810810358908452896

TheRathalos (@TAbusnardo) on X

@FrankWunderli13 @planet4589 TEC had already moved past Bikini (a "dumb" demonstrator) into Misson Possible (in part because of A6 delays...), it wasn't of much importance to them.

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 10:56 PM

glad it’s not crippling for TEC

[vernal fulcrum]

Overall this maiden flight is a success

[split gate]

(except it's a partial failure)

[mental radish]

Partial success

[vernal fulcrum]

(still a partial one obviously but you see what I mean)

[mental radish]

It’s a partial success

[zealous birch]

more success than failure definitely

[leaden hatch]

the success was partial

[outer berry]

partial success = partial failure, right?

[zealous birch]

yeah

[outer berry]

anyway the record shows vinci can be restarted one time

[leaden hatch]

success twasn't totally impartial

[wild stump]

If they find a relatively easy fix they may implement it anyway and cause some minor delays if it means they can test the "demonstration phase" again next launch

[thorn sun]

yeah esp if ppl want to argue that Starship F1 or 2 was a success it’s a success (just not like completelt$

[split gate]

Starship F1 and F2 were weird edge cases

[thorn sun]

if they were anyone but spacex they would’ve both been classified as failures ngl

[vernal fulcrum]

Definitely

[split gate]

You could make the argument it's impossible to classify them as successes or failures because they didn't have properly defined success conditions in the first place, which is weird as hell to say about an orbital-ish launch but it's true

To lose a game there has to be a definition of winning and losing

[tired laurel]

yeah it's just that their mission objectives were set in a way that only SpX really sets, and they still partially accomplished those objectives

[thorn sun]

vehicle explodes during ascent
chat this is only a partial failure i swear

[leaden hatch]

I have F2 listed as a failure since the ship failed to reach SECO

[thorn sun]

astra phrased it like that too?

[split gate]

Yeah true

[tired laurel]

but astra doesn't have a million fanboys crying about them on twitter

just like, 4 people in a random spaceflight server are crying about astra

[hot holly]

Yes, kemp calls some of the early Astra flights as a success

[tired laurel]

(i agree that ift-1 and 2 should be failures)

[hot holly]

Ift-3 should be partial failure

[verbal escarp]

cough Cfour cough

[rose badger]

I bet Eumetsat is not regretting their decision to move to Falcon 9

[austere raven]

I recall I was the first one to propose "P" because the shutdown was very late in the ascent AND it would have been flown sub-orbital anyway
Plus once the investigation results were out it was determined to be a one-off effect IIRC
I can definitely change it today but well "P" and "F"'s borders in this case is very blurred (we can definitely be sure it's not a success)

[torn jackal]

No, if they weren't using an iterative development approach

[thorn sun]

(ik it’s more complicated bc astra did this with customer payloads on board and spacex didn’t but still)

[wild stump]

Tbh They specifically said that a "simple" GTO throw would be unafected by any APU corrective measures or failure

but yeah, they probably aren't, if only because it happened a year+ ago

[thorn sun]

didn’t venting oxygen catch fire?

[austere raven]

Yes but you won't vent LOX on operational Starship missions before SECO

They didn't now too

[thorn sun]

relativity had the whole get data thing for GLHF ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[thorn sun]

yeah but they did and caused an LOV

launch failures are abt the specific launch not the future

[austere raven]

There's absolutely no way these 2 are successes
Argument was with F2 being "partial" or "fully" failures

(I also had heard arguments on whether loss of RCS control during Starship coast for F3 counts as a "partial" failure, but I consider that flight has proved Starship can now launch payloads in expendable mode)

[split gate]

Yeah fair

Anyway you ever think about how fucking strange it is that we're at point where SpaceX can just lob an entire SHLV to see how far it gets for the hell of it to gather data

The largest rocket to ever fly and they're just churning them out like jaffa cakes

[zealous birch]

yep

that is wild

[restive sequoia]

RCS above Europe:
https://x.com/amelkaaaluk/status/1810794065027375614

Amelka (@amelkaaaluk) on X

@stim3on @Arianespace @esa @ESA_transport me too!

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 9:52 PM

[split gate]

Do we have any idea, just for example, how much IFT-1 actually cost?

[zealous birch]

couple hundred million for the vehicles

plus the costs for the damage

idk

no way to find out tbh

[split gate]

Okay here's a better question actually

Which has a higher yearly budget: SpaceX or the entirety of NASA?

[zealous birch]

nasa

[split gate]

Figures but still

[thorn sun]

spacex doesn’t have to fund msr lmao

[zealous birch]

i think for now it's lower but in the future when starlink makes more money and starship actually does it's thing it could explode in terms of money

[zealous birch]

starship is their msr

[split gate]

I just don't fucking understand how they can build an entire Starship every couple months and it doesn't sink them ten feet under in debt like a Saturn V or an SLS or an Energia or any other SHLV would any other organization

[zealous birch]

when u deep it

[verbal escarp]

That’s fuel dump

I think

[zealous birch]

starship program is just an elaborate MSR

[thorn sun]

and nasa also has a lot more than MSR

[zealous birch]

yeah

[thorn sun]

yeah, ik ula calls it a blowdown

[zealous birch]

ultimately its the way they design and iterate them

[thorn sun]

was supposed to see one but ULA just like

didn’t

[verbal escarp]

A what 💀

[zealous birch]

plus theyre basically steel cans with fairly pricy engines

[thorn sun]

y e a h

[verbal escarp]

That is crazy 💀

[thorn sun]

i have seen a starlink S2 burning while getting gas

that was cool

[swift summit]

Plenty of investment money and plenty of revenue from falcon and starlink

[split gate]

I suppose

[swift summit]

And it’s not like they’re ceo is short on money and they’ve been getting plenty of contracts from NASA which helps out

I do wonder how much each stack costs them though

[zealous birch]

https://x.com/esa/status/1810812886706516001?t=RfD7JtYJKZ8VAWr-DpdZAA&s=33

European Space Agency (@esa) on X

Tonight's coverage may have ended but Ariane 6 is just getting started.

We have now entered into a new era of spaceflight for Europe, powering us into space and allowing us to realise our ambitions on the world stage.

Stay tuned for the next launch!

🔗 https://t.co/pz8U7RZeNK

Twitter · Jul 9, 2024, 11:06 PM

beautiful pic

[thorn sun]

https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1484563965632000005

ULA (@ulalaunch) on X

The countdown has resumed and we are GO to fuel the #AtlasV rocket with 66,000 gallons of liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. ULA Launch Director Eric Richards has authorized cryogenic tanking operations. Liftoff remains targeted for 2:00pmEST (1900 UTC). https://t.co/bx75cXeWed

Twitter · Jan 21, 2022, 4:30 PM

[verbal escarp]

💀

[zealous birch]

start blowdown

[thorn sun]

euro rs-25 goat

[foggy bolt]

Orange

[stone igloo]

Is there a set of criteria for green vs orange? IFT-3 being green and this being orange seems weird at least to me, maybe im missing something

[foggy bolt]

Green is if it completes all primary missions
Orange is typically when it completes most missions or places the payload in a lower than intended orbit

But it's a bit fuzzy yeah

[swift summit]

#1247821516960432268 message

[unborn socket]

Wait what happened?

[split gate]

Deorbit burn failed

[unborn socket]

That's it?

[verbal escarp]

Read the summary in the NXF app

[split gate]

There were two payloads that were supposed to come back down with the upper stage and got stuck

[verbal escarp]

It should tell you all you need to know

[split gate]

Capsule demonstrators

[unborn socket]

Oh yeah I just read it I see

So we gonna have to wait like another 2 years for next launch?

[split gate]

Nah prolly not

The deorbit burn failure wouldn't be mission critical on most launches and should be an easy fix

Slight delays maybe but not hugely so

[wild stump]

Arianespace's CEO said that this will not delay the next launch, planned for December

[stone igloo]

ah thank you, didn't see that

i agree this flight is orange but don't really agree with IFT-2 and 3s, but doesn't really matter at the end of the day

[tired laurel]

1. That's why they switched to stainless steel, Starships are comparatively a lot cheaper than other rockets of the same size.
2. SpX is making money off of F9 instead of constantly having to beg for more contract money or money from congress

[long moat]

they don't have to spend nearly as much money testing each of the components at facilities, too.
since flying is their (sorta) primary method of testing if their shit works

Sat V had to pause every time a F-1 exploderized during a stat fire

[split gate]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

SWITCHING TO STAINLESS STEEL EARLY ON WAS THE BEST DECISION THE PROGRAM HAS MADE AND CARBON FIBER WOULD HAVE BEEN ASS

[split gate]

Bruh

[shrewd relic]

rest in piss subscale nyx

[stray pier]

https://fxtwitter.com/Armee_de_lair/status/1810777746207035544

[foggy bolt]

SpaceX is the perfect company to make starship

[foggy bolt]

This is raw as fuck

[torn jackal]

https://fxtwitter.com/TailsOrangeFox/status/1810871646527602700

[unborn socket]

Apparently someone in a different server aiui worked on one of the capsules personally

[vernal fulcrum]

This capacity isn't needed on the next few launches

So no delay

[foggy bolt]

I find it ironic that these payloads need de-orbiting and they're on the one rocket that's had a failure in its deorbit burn basically this entire year

[robust pike]

i mean, they're not expected to be recovered, so cant they just detach shortly before reentry due to orbit degredation?

sure itd be faster than normal

but data is still useful

[austere raven]

From 580 km circular orbit? That will be many years

[robust pike]

how much do they weigh?

[foggy bolt]

batteries die

[robust pike]

https://www.lizard-tail.com/isana/lab/orbital_decay/
according to this, reentry would be in over 100 years

[vernal fulcrum]

I wonder if they are gonna use it for a space debris cleaning test, could be good PR

[foggy bolt]

well that's unusual

guess it's what I get for using a theme

[fossil forge]

So like

Did it fail

[vernal trellis]

Partially

[wild stump]

Not as an orbital launcher, partially as a mission, not gonna have an impact on next launch (in theory)

[long moat]

bruh the full frame is so much cooler than the crop

[torn jackal]

no deployment of the doohickeys
https://fxtwitter.com/planet4589/status/1811015692851855503

[verbal escarp]

[vernal fulcrum]

Why would you deploy payloads for nothing and create two more space debris ?

[wild stump]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bikini-demonstration-mission-objectives-learnings-lpdme?trk=public_post_feed-article-content

This is The exploration's article before the launch

tl;dr they didn't need the data and expected high risks of failure anyway

so yeah, it shouldn't set them back

(may even have spared them some bad press if their capsule failed)

Lmao they wanted to use Iridium during the reentry just like SX did with Starlink

[verbal escarp]

G O D D A Y U M https://x.com/Raptor_54321/status/1811048281910432091

𝓱𝓽𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓱𝓬🌈☀️ (@Raptor_54321) on X

God damn 😳
What a shot.

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 2:42 PM

[serene plinth]

,,,

[serene plinth]

https://x.com/AstroPolo_Space/status/1811068755247505813

Paul Montagne (@AstroPolo_Space) on X

🚀 Ariane 6 - YPSAT 😍

Le passager YPSAT de la première Ariane 6 vient de publier des photos somptueuses !

YPSAT : Young Professionnal Satellite (@esa) dont l'objectif était de documenter les opérations en orbite.

Félicitations à l'équipe derrière ce projet magique ! Respect !

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 4:03 PM

[void mason]

why do they say 'top' during the french countdown when liftoff occurs?

[wild stump]

It's a common signaling sound at the end of a countdown in french

it means "go!/start!"

[wild stump]

Don't remember hearing it during the live stream, but Guiana's local TV network that was reporting at the CSG said that there was a second, failed, attempt at re-starting the APU after it had shut itself down shortly after restarting a second time.

[torn jackal]

https://fxtwitter.com/TechSpatiales/status/1811445795050152156/en

[vernal fulcrum]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9P9Tl1NzLy

armeedelair

Décollage réussi pour Ariane 6 ! 🚀

Revivez en images le succès du tir inaugural de la fusée Ariane 6, conduit depuis le Centre spatial guyanais (CSG) à Kourou.

Trois Rafale déployés depuis la métropole, deux Fennec de l’escadron de transport 68 « Antilles-Guyane » et leurs moyens de lutte antidrone, ainsi qu'un Puma appuyant les forces au sol ...

Likes

9054

Instagram

[serene plinth]

pog

[vernal ibex]

Wo

[leaden hatch]

mission patch
https://x.com/ArianeGroup/status/1810939502170374180

ArianeGroup (@ArianeGroup) on X

A patch for the future. We’re proud to reveal ArianeGroup’s very first Ariane 6 patch, symbolizing a new chapter for Europe’s space industry. This patch represents our launcher’s flight trajectory and our ambition to farther and higher toward new horizons.

#Ariane6 #MissionPatch

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 7:29 AM

shit goes hard
https://x.com/CNES/status/1811117377050005620

CNES (@CNES) on X

Pour fêter le vol inaugural d'#Ariane6, on vous offre une affiche collector, à télécharger gratuitement jusque au 19 juillet. Elle est également disponible dans notre boutique 😉
https://t.co/dRW1N1ATvY

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 7:16 PM

[serene plinth]

looks poo the patch

[leaden hatch]

one of the customer patches
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/uarxspace_this-one-is-for-the-books-uarx-space-activity-7198999173529010176-YphB

and Exolaunch's

[serene plinth]

i should make a lego one 😎

[vernal fulcrum]

you should

[unborn socket]

Ariane Neutron

[wild stump]

https://vxtwitter.com/AstroPolo_Space/status/1811999638070722798

[foggy bolt]

Nuke ariane

[restive sequoia]

RAHHHHHHH 🚀 🚀 🚀 WHAT THE FUCK IS A MILE 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🗣🗣🗣

[sage geode]

do it in french

[serene plinth]

ROOOAAAARRR 🚀 🚀 🚀 WAS ZÜR HÖLLE IST EINE MEILE 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🇪🇺 🗣🗣🗣

[restive sequoia]

RUAHHHHHHHUE 🚀 🚀 🚀 QU'EST-CE QUE C'EST UN MILE 🇫🇷 🇫🇷 🇫🇷 🗣🗣🗣

[vernal fulcrum]

FRANCE BAISE OUAIS

[zinc totem]

As an American I think France is cool

Let's all collectively make fun of the British

[sage geode]

bullying the french is fun

but teaming up to laugh at the british is even more fun

[serene plinth]

where frog legs

[verbal escarp]

That’s so real

[vernal fulcrum]

https://vxtwitter.com/FBuffenoir/status/1812109056028410079

[long moat]

OH
MY GOD

[wild stump]

Honestly I didn’t think that A62 would be so beautiful before the launch

[long moat]

I do think that I’ll generally like 64 better
But the Air Force really pulled a W with this launch

[serene plinth]

yeha 64 will looks even better

[verbal escarp]

[unborn socket]

https://youtube.com/shorts/opmxQPhLBzw?si=1Ja2Rwm5nwQTXdbA

Liars

Ariane 6 does not reach orbit in 8 minutes

As they claim

[foggy bolt]

"what if we did the literal coolest thing ever"

[wild stump]

https://www.esa.int/esatv/Videos/2024/02/Ariane_6_inaugural_launch/July_2024_-_liftoff_footage

[zealous birch]

moment

[unborn socket]

LMFAOOO wut

[mental radish]

its meant to say time to space

same for ariane im guessing

idk why they dont just say space

[vernal fulcrum]

Common mistake for people not as much into space as us

If you ask random people in the street, orbit = space

[mental radish]

fucking idiots

[vernal fulcrum]

[verbal escarp]

If you ask Tory Bruno he also defines it that way

[vernal fulcrum]

[split gate]

Something something Bezos joke from ten years ago

[random glacier]

wait i wonder if you did a general survey how many people would think "low earth orbit" is below the stratosphere

[vernal fulcrum]

You're implying that most people know what the stratosphere is

[random glacier]

bc in common parlance theyre both just "technobabble meaning 'high up' used for multisyllabic effect"

[random glacier]

no the main point is that people dont know what either is

which means the data could show smth very interesting if anything at all

[vernal fulcrum]

It'd just be random answers

[random glacier]

yeah but what if it isnt

[vernal fulcrum]

Depends on the pop of the survey

[unborn socket]

Yeah but like

Idk

[vernal fulcrum]

Great argument

[unborn socket]

Indeed

[vernal fulcrum]

I have been summoned

Therefore I may grant you one wish

[unborn socket]

A stork ball

[vernal fulcrum]

@remote granite

[remote granite]

I can provide stork ball

[vernal fulcrum]

If I end up in Stras at the end of my Interrail, how much time do I need to take a slight détour to Storkball shop ?

[unborn socket]

OMG no lmao I was joking

[remote granite]

Storkball shop is 20 mins away from Hôtel Belle

[torn jackal]

Didn't I already give you one

[vernal fulcrum]

[unborn socket]

You gave me a rock sticker, and some useless like rock and one side is smooth and painted black

(I'm joking if was part of a starship tile)

Also aside from the ram and CPUs and stuff

Ty🙏

[vernal fulcrum]

Sometimes I feel like Miranda is gonna get catched by the IRS

[torn jackal]

oh absolutely. I owe them five figures

but until then we ball

[vernal fulcrum]

@IRS

[thorn sun]

why would you mention this

[torn jackal]

who gives a damn lol

probably no glowies in here

[thorn sun]

you when the irs eventually finds out

[thorn sun]

there’s 6293 ppl here, would not shock me if there are feds lmao

if you’re not gonna pay your taxes don’t say it on a well known public server 😭🤤

[torn jackal]

well yeah but only like 100 active people and none of whom give enough of a shit to report me, a random internet bitch for confessed crimes without proof attached

[thorn sun]

lurkers

[unborn socket]

Lmfao my uncle works for IRS lmaooo

But he's chill

He legit told me at this age even how much I make from work and vending I don't need to report anything if I don't want to

Just don't sayin anything publicly or deposit/transfer too much money

[vernal fulcrum]

I'm a fed actually

I work for the FBI

French Bureau of Investigation

[zinc totem]

friend bureau of imagination

[foggy bolt]

I have terrible news for you

[random glacier]

????

[reef moss]

https://youtu.be/si_IvKC2Axw

[vernal ibex]

imagin actually sharing footage of your rocket

longer than a 2 min compliation

[restive sequoia]

Ah great that they shared it without loginwall as well, how could I ever have doubted you ESA

[long moat]

god I wish a certain other space company did this

also those views are gorgeous

[vernal ibex]

Ik

What a concept

[vernal trellis]

https://fixupx.com/ESA_transport/status/1814228944234668088?t=Rxkqw-e4jd5WnrYt7Nufuw&s=19

[serene plinth]

[wild stump]

Yes!

There were rumours they’d have cool pics

[vernal ibex]

Marble

[unborn socket]

@serene plinth @vernal fulcrum @cunning spoke @remote granite https://youtu.be/TinQR0px3FU?si=j1VjHjqtpiWY705o

[vernal fulcrum]

Ja

But Skysaac's model is better

[unborn socket]

You got a pic?

[vernal fulcrum]

#1247821516960432268 message

[wild stump]

I took the bait
tl;dr the whole previous discussion was held under the assumption, that nobody challenged, that the goal of the mission was delivery of all payload, as if it was an operational launch, from this point of view I do not deny that it is a partial failure, something that I repeated.

Therefore I try to show that the goal of the mission was qualification of the launcher, for which I try to show evidence (based on official statements before and after the launch) that it required only the nominal delivery of the orbital payload (and that the complementary phase was not required for qualification), and that it was considered by both concerned parties (ESA which organised the qualification launch, and Arianespace which received the qualified launcher) as a successful qualification launch enabling the future operational use of the launcher, according to the criteria they set before launch.

If the wikipedia users decide to stick to their own criteria then no problem, I'm just trying to move the framework of the discussion.

[wild stump]

https://x.com/AschbacherJosef/status/1835643681841582546

Josef Aschbacher (@AschbacherJosef) on X

⚠️#Ariane6 update related to its inaugural flight👇

Analysis shows that 3rd ignition of Auxiliary Propulsion Unit was shut down correctly by flight software due to one temperature measurement exceeding pre-defined limit. The ignition preparation sequence will be changed through

Twitter · Sep 16, 2024, 11:35 AM

Relatively good news, corrective is a software change