.45-70 re-work and fix

[thorn comet]

It's awful, considering that it was a beast in classic the one we got for Call of the Wild is a tragedy.

It has a flat top receiver with pre-drilled holes for mounting a scope and yet it has to use a side mounted version. The .44 Moradi does not have this issue.

The ammunition is horribly weak and absolutely does not reflect the performance this rifle had in Classic or real life.

The range restriction is absolutely senseless because the jernberg Superior PISTOL has a longer zero distance.

Neither of them have the power to quickly down bison or grizzly bears, something they do so well in real life that hunting guides trust their lives to it.

What I don't understand is that this rifle was in Classic and performed beautifully. It had a picatinny rail even then. What exactly happened that it became so unrecognizable and useless in a newer game on stronger platforms?

Devs, please, fix this thing and make it fun. I'd be more than happy to pay for an individual weapon rework, ecstatic even. As long as it hits hard and works like it should.

[robust fractal]

this is a change that is absolutely necessary. Make this weapon into the beast that it should be

[thorn comet]

They didn't even bring the ammo picture from classic, for some reason it looks like generic bottleneck ammo in the store and storage

Omg even the .30-30 was better

[robust fractal]

personally I think reworking some of these older guns to make them more realistic is (in some cases) just as important as reworking old animal models and TruRACs, or backfilling species on older maps. I think the three most important gameplay elements in any hunting game are maps, weapons and animals, and many of the older maps, weapons and animals in COTW really deserve a major overhaul to bring them up to the standards we've come to expect from newer content.

[thorn comet]

Meanwhile red deer have had 6 reworks

[robust fractal]

right! It's actually crazy to see how much time and effort has been put into certain things, and barely any effort put into some other ones.

[glad bramble]

We need it

[thorn comet]

At least give us a new .45-70 lever action with a long barrel, normal scopes, and GOOD AMMO

[glad bramble]

Bump

[sleek urchin]

This better be added with the new map

[thorn comet]

I'd pay for it standalone

[thorn comet]

Bump

[glad bramble]

Bump

[wintry vector]

I can't agree more that we NEED a fixed .45-70
.45-70 as a 4-9 is just perfection for me who likes to play the game with 1 rifle and 1 handgun so an appropriate buff that reflects it's irl performance is something I really want to see from EW

[wintry vector]

EW might have to make the .45-70 a C4-C10 oneday

[thorn comet]

That's awesome! I'd love to see someone take down the big five or dangerous 7 with a .45-70. It's such a good caliber

[thorn comet]

Bump

[glad bramble]

Who knows? Why so complicated to shift expansion SP bullet from 6 to 10. Will it ruin the game?. Moradi has implausible advantage. But irl 45-70 and 44 equal opponents.

[thorn comet]

Dunno who told you that but they are wrong. the .45-70 hits so much harder than the .44 magnum, higher velocity, heavier bullets, more penetration, more range. the .45-70 is a full sized rfile cartridge about twice as long as the .44 magnum

[glad bramble]

In the game we have 70-16 FN(44) vs 40-6 SP(45-70). It very disappointed. I don't hunt irl but those whom i asked answered that 44 irl really powerful, just like in the game. idk. 45-70 in game looks like a big mistake.

[thorn comet]

It is, it's far too weak among other issues

[glad bramble]

I asked a programmer. He answered that sometimes it’s easier to create something new than to fix something old

[thorn comet]

Then I'd like if they deleted this version of the Coachmate and started over or gave us a new lever action. 45-70

[thorn comet]

The Coachmate is based on the Marlin 1895 Guide Gun that was available in the late 90's and early 20's. Held 6 shots and could take the highest pressure loads available at the time and is still the benchmark

[fallen kayak]

Either would work. 👍

[thorn comet]

May i introduce the Pedersoli 86/71 Guidemaster, with two additional skins

[robust fractal]

how hard would it be to just buff the damage output, effective range, and ammo capacity for a gun that's already in the game and then make it able to use better scopes? Would that really be harder than starting over from scratch with a whole new weapon? It's a serious question, because I feel like making a whole new gun would take longer. But I'm also not very well-versed in how programming for weapons in video games actually works.

btw, I'd be fine with either one of those things as long as we'd get a better 45-70 in the game

[thorn comet]

They don't really have to start from scratch, the model itself is fine and it's animations are good they just need to loop it 2 more times to make a 5 round magazine work. It originally had a rail on the receiver that would have accepted normal scopes but it was removed for some reason and forced to use the side mounted scope that would cause severe damage to the action if it was done irl

[fallen kayak]

Have you seen the premium version of this, hardcast with wood furniture it’s a-nice!

[thorn comet]

I'd 100% put a nice wood stock on it if I had it

Oh it looks so good!

[wicked hatch]

This but with the 1895 laminate from earlier in the thread.

[thorn comet]

It'd look incredible 😲

[wicked hatch]

On second thought, I guess I never posted it here…

[thorn comet]

It's the new Ruger built Marlin 1895 right?

[fallen kayak]

They went full cowboy on that lever-loop size.

[thorn comet]

Nah that's reasonable size, they make them hideously huge

[wicked hatch]

You gotta fit your hand through the loop even while you’ve got big ol’ beaver fur gloves somehow!

[thorn comet]

How big is your hand bro?

[wicked hatch]

Good lord.

[fallen kayak]

You could wear a gauntlet, and still have room to drop a shot glass through. 😭

[thorn comet]

Yeah, that one's weirdly big loop, it was made for a TV show but what can you do? Weird choices for looks I guess

[fallen kayak]

What would be great, is every episode, the loop would keep getting progressively bigger.

[thorn comet]

It's big enough to be a necklace tho lol

[wintry vector]

The problem with the .44 rifle in game is that the devs implemented the 3 handgun cartridges at release of the game, and to make them 'balanced' they gave them ridiculous performance that they shouldn't have, and now that they've made a rifle with a handgun cartridge, it's performance is way better than it should be.

[thorn comet]

A High Wall rifle is another outstanding option for a. 45-70 but the lever action still needs to be fixed!

[maiden flare]

Just took the .45-70 to Yukon for bison - it did okay out to 150m, single lung with slow drop - but the biggest disappointment was the sound, very muffled and muted - took all the fun away

[thorn comet]

It needs a big deafening boom, all the guns sound weak and quiet

[maiden flare]

Quist Reaper captures some of the SKS sounds pretty well, although not loud enough

[thorn comet]

Nah, they didn't exactly get it right, the valmet is just way too quiet

[wintry vector]

I personally think the Olsen .308 is probably the best sounding firearm in the game, but overall, the rifles in the game could for a sound improvement

[wicked hatch]

Eckers .30-06 is a close second imo

[thorn comet]

Was about to say that

[thorn comet]

Bump

[thorn comet]

When I say "rework and fix" I mean

1. Change the ammunition to reliably bring down class 9 animals with about 80% quick kill out to a distance of 150m and 50% at 200m.

2. Change the maximum zero distance to 250m to better show the difference between the rifle and handgun (the jernberg has a maximum of 200m)

3. Change the magazine to hold a minimum of 4 cartridges or a maximum of 6 cartridges as that's what the particular model of rifle offers IRL

4. Allow the Coachmate to use the same selection of scopes as the Moradi .44 magnum. They both share the same receiver design so there's no logical reason that they can't use the same scopes.

5. Add or change the ammunition to better reflect the actual cartridges. The same picture of .45-70 ammunition used in Classic would be perfect.

6. Add a buttplate or recoil pad to the rifles model. It looks weird without it.

This is all I need done to make this rifle absolutely perfect, if anyone else cares to add then please do

[thorn comet]

Keep these in mind please

[glad bramble]

Bump

[mortal bay]

honestly 45-70 is one of my favorite calibers irl. seeing how terrible it is in cotw is just painful. its supposed to be this powerful thumper of a round yet it sounds and hits in a pathetic anemic kind of way.

[thorn comet]

The new map ALBERTA has an upgraded .30-30, I hope they updated the ammo but at least it can use scopes!

[wintry vector]

Is the new map weapon ??

[thorn comet]

Yep! We got a .30-30 rework!

[wintry vector]

Awe shap I'm buying the map for the .30-30

The plea hath been answered

[thorn comet]

That is exactly what I said lmao

[wintry vector]

It's so beautiful my goodness I'm already in love
I wish they gave me the knife as well, heaven alone knows what I'd do with it in game but it would be cool just to have

[thorn comet]

Cut shooting lanes, fight wolves, make camp, a few things

[mortal bay]

would be cool if they added a skinning animation [optional] similar to RDR2

[thorn comet]

How I hope, also PLEASE MAKE IT 3-7

[wintry vector]

For fighting wolves and setting up camp is pretty valid.
A knife for when things turn south is actually really not a terrible idea in game I think

[thorn comet]

Gimme a backup weapon anytime

[wintry vector]

I've actually seen a video of a guy saving his dad from a Buffalo with a big cold steel knife. Then there also Harry Wolhuter who killed a lion with his knife. The list goes on

[thorn comet]

Necessity is the mother of "one of us is dyin' and it ain't me ya furry b@$%!$#!!!!"

[light spade]

.30-30 needs a serious buff along with more powerful 45-70 ammo for the bigger critters. The new Marlin 336 coming with Alberta looks sweet, although I would’ve preferred .35 Remington.

We do already have a rifle based on the Marlin 1895 .45-70 so I can see why they wouldn’t do that but a Winchester 1886 like some of the pedersoli guide guns would’ve been sweet. The current 45-70 feels a lot like original black powder loads and obviously 45-70 can be hot rodded to nearly a 458 win mag, although this needs a really strong rifle, buffalo bore still loads a stupid hot 500 grain round that’ll work in most new production rifles. Maybe we can get a lever gun pack with a new 45-70, 35 Remington and maybe a 250 savage or something.

[wanton loom]

MY BELOVED RIFLE FINALLY COMES TO THE GAME

PLEASE LET IT BE BUFFED I BEG

[thorn comet]

That's why I posted this thread, good news on the .30-30 aside, the Coachmate still needs a total rework, not just how the ammunition is. It should be an absolute beast of 7-9 rifle and they've dropped the ball soharr trying to make it cover more animals. Yes I know it originally was meant to cover only a few in Layton and Hirsch but the fact they've never updated any base game weapons or ammunition is just absurd

[light spade]

They seem to do it with everything. I really don’t remember them updating anything, just adding something new to make us forget about it.

[wanton loom]

I mean that doesnt mean the .45-70 will go without love, itll just likely come later

I can totally see a Sharps Rifle or Remington Rolling Block coming with a proper arctic reserve and giving .45-70 a rework

[thorn comet]

They made the polymer tipped ammunition for the 7mm and 338 unlocked for the power pack when we got bolt actions.

But not the .44 magnums when we got the Moradi

[thorn comet]

8+ years after the game comes out then. Problem is, they got it so massively wring to start with.

It shouldn't be using the side mounted scope at all and 9nly holding 3 rounds holds it back too. The range cap makes it much worse than anything else like it too

[wanton loom]

oh yeah it needs a complete rework and how wrong they got it honestly depresses me but im not gonna focus on it too much cause itll make me sad lol

[thorn comet]

Here's something closer to what it should be,

[light spade]

I see they made the new 30-30 use normal scopes and obviously 1895 is just a scaled up 336 and mounts the exact same way, and yeah 45-70 is in dire need of ammo more similar to modern ammo. Again the current stuff feels like original black powder stuff. I know 45-70 doesn't exactly have the greatest ballistics in the world but hotter ammo should be able to reach out to 200 yards without an issue, and correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the caplock zero at 200 with minie balls? If so 45-70 should be pretty similar.

[thorn comet]

It does. Which honestly make this even worse. It's such a massive fumble because the 1895 is one the strongest actions ever made for the cartridge and can take pressure that would literally rupture older models. The speed and power of a properly loaded .45-70 means it can reach so much farther than the 150m they give it in this game. With lighter bullets it's got as much reach as most modern cartridge and carries more than enough energy to bring down any big game you'd need

With heavy bullets it's more than a match for large and dangerous game. Around the same level of power of a .375

[light spade]

It certainly can give the 375 a run for it's money and yeah the 1895 is probably the strongest lever action ever made. Granted the ruger no.1 might be the toughest 45-70 action ever made and the loads you can run in one are only 150-200 fps slower than 458 win mag, both with the 500 grainers. Maybe one day they'll add a new 45-70 and rework the ammo but I'm not sure. They lowered the xp unlock for the 7mm and 338 but I do not think any ammo actually had it's power changed.

[wintry vector]

I know I've already posted these but just to really emphasize the point.

The .45-70 can and will perform in practice around the level of the reveered .375 H&H. The last one is mostly for it being able to reach out further than it's can in game

[thorn comet]

.45-70 has been put to work on the biggest and meanest game you can hunt. It'll do the job a lot more effectively than anyone seems willing to imagine

[glad bramble]

It would solved with a new power bullet for 5-9 (6-9) class.

[thorn comet]

There's a few problems aside from how weak it is. The range restriction, the magazine count, the scope, there's no recoil pad or buttplate either

[glad bramble]

This problem could be solved if to sell us a new weapon pack or map. I want to write is a joke but a buff 30-30 looks like something like that.

[thorn comet]

Problem is that the Coachmate shares the same style of receiver as the Moradi and the new .30-30, they know very well that it's meant to use regular scopes. It's just a refusal to fix it now. If it takes a new weapon pack then fine, but it needs to be fixed

[glad bramble]

All that remains is wait a new map and will see all the changes. Maybe devs got to the right path. The main thing is to wait and not to die of old age.

[scenic juniper]

I'd love to see the 45-70 given

More punch
Better ammo capacity (5+1 ideally)
A nicer look

[wintry vector]

So here's a visual representation of the issue of the Coachmates optics issue for clarification. Its pretty clear that the Coachmate should be able to mount the same scopes as the Moradi when you put them side by side like this

Infact, the Moradi's scope mount actually looks...off

Also though I'd point out that on both the .45-70 and the .30-30 in these photos that the side mounted scope is sat way too far forward on the rifle compared to where it should probably be

[thorn comet]

They didn't do it justice in the first place. The new rifle and moradi have the same receiver type so they should all mount the normal rifle scopes. I'm seriously annoyed that they've literally made two rifles correctly and left the .45-70 the butchered mess it is

[burnt silo]

justice for the lever actions lol

the .44 is too strong and the .30-30 and .45-70 are way too weak as you've all explained so well.

[wintry vector]

Look, I don't wanna bad mouth EW or CotW but rather just point out things that really need some attention. That being said, alot of the base game stuff and earlier years of developments stuff is shocking. In my opinion CotW already obviously has its position as top dog in the hunting simulator genre but the game still has so much potential. Now obviously I don't know much about the dev teams internal workings and situation so I really don't want to put forward too many "they shoulds" and what not, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that they just update the older stuff to meet the standard of alot of the new stuff and maybe take a look into some of their mechanics like how pistol cartridges are WAY stronger than they should be

[thorn comet]

Most of the older guns don't need too terribly much but the lever action rifles are absolute wrecks. The .45-70 desperately needs a total rework, so I'm wondering if it would be easier for the devs to just delete it altogether and start from scratch.

Say they add a new falling block or rolling block rifle in .45-70. They could strip out the Coachmate and reuse the model with the new ammo stats

[thorn comet]

This is from Artstation.com if you search up Hunt Showdown. I'd personally be happy to have one

[wintry vector]

There's a number of little things that could be fixed with the older guns but they're mostly visual and auditory so they have little to no bearing on actual gameplay, but itd be cool if they could take a look at it

[thorn comet]

Bump

[glad bramble]

Bump

[thorn comet]

Ruger no. 1 .45-70 special edition. Sorry @royal heath but thus beauty deserves to be mentioned, and to be totally honest, I'd happily take a .458 version too

[royal heath]

Don’t listen to this man, the 458 is the best Ruger no 1

Save the 45-70 for a Sharps rifle…or a Springfield trapdoor, or a Remington rolling block

[thorn comet]

Now hold your horses tree boy, there's no reason we couldn't have a couple of beautiful falling block rifles in the game, I mean, you gotta admit this .45-70 is good looking

[royal heath]

Of course it looks beautiful, it’s a ruger no 1

………TREE BOY????

[thorn comet]

Even a No.3 looks pretty dang cool

Wouldn't ya say Tree Boy?

[royal heath]

Yes…and I’m now abandoning this thread😆

[thorn comet]

What you prefer Leaf boy or something?

[thorn comet]

The "John Bodine" rolling block rifle, featuring a tang mounted peep sight for long range shooting and massive 30" inch barrel to take advantage of the .45-70's full potential for long range hunts

A rolling block would be a very fun new option for grizzlies and bison

[thorn comet]

Current vs Classic depiction of .45-70 ammunition

[glad bramble]

45-70 bottleneck? Is it right?

[royal heath]

I prefer Child Of The Orchard, thank you very much
😝

[glad bramble]

Bump

[wicked hatch]

Gib

[thorn comet]

Nope, .45-70 is a straight walled cartridge. The box with the buffalo on it shows them accurately

[thorn comet]

Henceforth and forevermore I shall dub thee bushbaby

I even found a picture of you

[thorn comet]

These are such good looking rifles now, I'm gonna have to get my hands on one. I especially love the lever, big enough for gloves but not so big that it's in the way

[royal heath]

No, I’m more hairy than that

[wanton loom]

aint this that thing that chimps hunt down and eat alive like a portable living 10pc of chicken mcnuggets?

[glad bramble]

Wrong cartridge, wrong power, wrong sound..... What are they thinking about, in general?

[wicked hatch]

They are very beautiful rifles, been hoping one would pop up at a local place to get a nice deal.

[glad bramble]

^

[unreal dragon]

Hi there,
Thank you for sharing your feedback concerning the .45-70 and other base game weapons in general. We are actively working on improvements, and input like this helps us spot areas we should focus on addressing. We'll be sure to take it into account as we continue working on future updates!

We continuously read through the feedback channel and community input is always appreciated, so please continue sharing your thoughts on the subject.
In case you'd like to reach out to us directly, you can always contact us through the support portal below, we are just a message away:
https://support.thehunter.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

[glad bramble]

Eywa has heard

[thorn comet]

Best case scenario, I'd probably have to order it tho, everyone in Wyoming is obsessed with long range shooting

[glad bramble]

^

[light spade]

Man that thing is awesome. My buddy has a no.1 tropical 416 rigby and I almost bought a 458 Lott before I got the one I have. The no.1 is by far the strongest action you can get for a 45-70 and it can handle some 500 grain loads that are only 100ish fps slower than a 458 win mag but the sharps, rolling blocks, and 1885s are definitely cooler in 45-70 or any of the black powder cartridges. I did do some testing over the last week using the 45-70 rifle and pistol and found almost no difference in the two with how they performed on animals. The zeroing is weird though since the pistol can zero at 200 max. But in testing all it did was prove my point that current 45-70 ammo (the soft point or whatever) feels like a 300 grain soft lead bullet loaded to black powder levels for original guns instead of the majority of 45-70 ammo which is generally a 300 grain bullet at roughly 2000 fps, and of course there are some wicked hot ones on the market that work in new guns like what’s already in game.

[thorn comet]

Which is the reason a lot of us want it fixed so bad

[light scarab]

It sounds god awful in game too, same with the 30-30

[glad bramble]

Recently I watched film "Shrapnel". 45-70 in this film really stunning. Not like in the game.

[thorn comet]

Bump

[thorn comet]

Bump

[glad bramble]

👆

Make the 45-70 great again 💪 If it will require 5-9 or 6-9 class no one will be offended.

[wanton loom]

this makes me want to buy a Henry Brass Reciever .45-70

how dare you reawaken my purchase urges lmao

-# or the case hardened reciever thatd be neat too

[wanton loom]

want

[thorn comet]

I just wish the 45-70 in game was worth buying