Subspecies Distinction and Replace of Species

[steep ermine]

Moose (Alces alces):

• Alaska Moose [class 8] (Alces alces gigas) --> Yukon Valley
• Eastern Moose [class 8] (Alces alces americana) --> New England Mountains
• Western Moose [class 8] (Alces alces andersoni) --> Layton Lake District/Askiy Ridge
• Eurasian Moose [class 8] (Alces alces alces) --> Medved-Taiga/Revontuli Coast

Red Deer (Cervus Elaphus):

• Iberian Red Deer (Cervus elaphus hispanicus) --> Cuatro Colinas

Gray Wolf (Canis lupus):

• Eurasian Wolf (Canis lupus lupus) --> Medved-Taiga

Mule Deer (Odocoileus hemionus):

• Desert Mule Deer (Odocoileus hemionus crooki/eremicus) --> Rancho del Arroyo

[lucid valley]

In Medved Taiga National Park: I think the subspecie is Mid-Siberian Moose (Alces alces pfizenmayeri) = Yakutia Moose

[vital orbit]

Again I will point out that the moose subspecies that would be appropriate for Layton Lakes is not the Western Moose but the Shiras Moose (Alces alces shirasi)

They are found from Southern British Columbia through Washington, Idaho and Montana to as far south as Utah and Colorado

[sonic ibex]

Barren Ground Carribou.

[steep ermine]

what do you mean by that?

[vital orbit]

That is the subspecies of Caribou that would be found in Yukon Valley

[lucid valley]

Is Layton Lake District based on the state of Washington?

[vital orbit]

There was some stuff in the in-game codex that points to Layton being in either Washington (most likely), Oregon, or both. I ruled out British Columbia when the Layton Lakes Lodge came out thanks to the US Flag, plus those are the only 2 states that both have Columbian Black-tailed Deer and Shiras Moose. The only parts of the United States to have Western Moose are Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

[lucid valley]

And Roosevelt elk.

[lucid valley]

We need a map for Sitka Blacktail (British Columbia) and other map for Tule Elk and Desert Bighorn (California), I think at least. More Local Animals, of course.

[faint pine]

Silver Ridge should keep the Rocky Mt Bighorn, Rancho needs the Desert sheep

[lucid valley]

Rancho is located in Arizona and New Mexico, isn't it? According to the map, is the RM bighorn correct?

[faint pine]

no its in mexico, and i just want 2 different bighorn species

[lucid valley]

Me too

So, it must be Coues' Whitetail instead of Whitetail in Rancho, right?

And Desert Mule Deer too.

[vital orbit]

If I recall correctly Rancho was based specifically in Sonora, Mexico

[faint pine]

yes to both

[steep ermine]

I know, but that was a mistake I made when making the post, it's already corrected.

[vital orbit]

I see you also corrected the moose subspecies for Layton 👍

[violet nebula]

I had trouble seeing the difference between a Shiras elk and another species of elk.

For medved-taiga I think it is more the alces the alces pfizenmayer because the cameloid is located in the south-east of Siberia and it is the smallest and the darkest fur of all the species if I have well understood. While the A. a Pfizenmayer is located further up Siberia and further west. I would say more him because Medved-Taïga is based on the Yamal peninsula which is located in the northwest of Siberia and not in the southeast.

[vital orbit]

Well first of all the Shiras Moose lives in the Western United States (Where Layton Lakes is located generally speaking) and southwestern Canada (British Columbia mostly) and is generally smaller than the other North American moose subspecies

[violet nebula]

ok so the other one must be the smallest of the European and Asian species

[violet nebula]

Ok

[faint pine]

yeah i just saw it, sorry to bother ya

[steep ermine]

Don't worry, without your comment I wouldn't have noticed the mistake.

[haughty ivy]

Seeing as it mentions Hermosillo many times throughout the story, I’d venture to say it is in fact based on Sonora. Thats also why I want them to change the name of the turkeys to Goulds Turkey, as they already look like the Goulds variety more than the Rio Grande.

[faint pine]

And switch the stinking whitetail for coues deer!!!!!!!

[haughty ivy]

Yes! Please!

[faint pine]

just make the model small and a different truracs, make some more gray type furs and they got it covered

[haughty ivy]

I’ve been wanting Coues deer for years, and I’ve always wanted some variation in the whitetail. The ones in Layton need to be smaller bodied with smaller antlers (could just shrink down the current racks and it would honestly be good). The ones on NEM and Revontuli need to be massive in body size with smaller antlers. The ones in Mississippi would be about right for the ones in game.

[twilit dagger]

They should tbh, and just make a new map for rio grande

[haughty ivy]

Could also add Rios to SRP or Layton. They’re found widely throughout both Colorado and Washington.

[twilit dagger]

Remove merriams from Layton and add rio grande

[vital orbit]

Texas and Hawaii would make great locations for a map to have Rio Grande Turkey while also a few new species

[static helm]

Or give both and have them sectioned to half the map each. Would give a better turkey experience especially for rios

[twilit dagger]

Real

[steep ermine]

Subspecies Distinction Update

[faint pine]

Also Desert Mule Deer for Rancho, and Coues deer which are a subspecies of whitetail : )

[scenic venture]

Ngl the work load for them working this all out would be crazy I feel bad for whoever has to identify the red fox subspecies

[steep ermine]

already

[scenic venture]

?

[steep ermine]

I mean that it is a big job to distinguish certain subspecies within the game to improve its diversity of animals but nothing is impossible and I trust that one day they will do it.

[versed slate]

Bump

[scenic venture]

Oh yeah for sure. Some species I’d feel so bad for the people doing it like whitetail would be full on to

[dense remnant]

If they do whitetail they’d end up with at least 4 subspecies ( uncertain where Europe’s whitetail came from but I’m guessing they’re either the Northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail O. v. borealis, or the Southern/Virginia Whitetail O. v. virginianus)

Layton lakes would have the northwestern/northern Rocky Mountain whitetail (O. v. ochrourus)

New England would have the northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail (O. v. borealis)

Mississippi would either have the Southern/Virginia white tailed deer (O. v. virginianus) which I think would be more popular, or the Florida Costal Whitetail (O. v. osceola) which are more coastal (as the name states lol) they could do both as well I suppose just having the southerns be more inland.

And of course Rancho would have the Coues/Arizona Whitetail/Fantail Deer (O. v. couesi)

[vital orbit]

If I do recall correctly the White-tailed Deer in Finland did come from the Midwest, which is Northern White-tail (O.v.borealis) country, so I imagine that makes the ones on Revontouli the same subspecies that is present on the New England Mountains reserve

[dense remnant]

Could be, but the Midwest is home to 4 subspecies of whitetail so they could go with a new one if they felt like it I suppose. The options would be the Kansas Whitetail (O. v. macrourus), Texas Whitetail (O. v. texanus), Dakota/Northern Plains Whitetail (O. v. dacotensis) or the previously mentioned Northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail (O. v. borealis). If they did the Dakota you’d have the two largest subspecies present in Cotw and they have the most northern range of any subspecies which would make sense for Finland. But I’m not pressed about it in any case.

[vital orbit]

I looked into it: It was Minnesota and more specifically near the city of Virginia (https://yle.fi/a/3-10294577) and based on a map of white-tail subspecies that means the Finnish White-tails are the Northern subspecies (O.v.borealis)

I guess the only way we could get a Dakota White-tailed Deer (The most abundant subspecies where I live) would be to have a bird centric map (Geese, Grouse, Sandhill Cranes, etc) set in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Alberta or Saskatchewan that also includes some big game animals (alongside all the White-tail Subspecies being made distinctive)

[dense remnant]

Eh wouldn’t really have to be bird centric tho that would be fine, could just be based in the Eastern regions of Montana or Wyoming if you want to have another map for pronghorn, plains bison and all that but getting greater sage grouse, snow geese, or wood ducks would be cool, if you’re wanting bird centric I’d avoid mt and wy they’re decent but the dakotas beat em out handily waterfowl population wise from what I’ve seen. But I suppose this is getting off topic.

[prisma citrus]

This is such a good post! I thought about this but I didn’t know how to explain it, good job man.

[steep ermine]

Thanks! 👏

[prisma citrus]

You’re welcome

[rugged hawk]

Additionally you could do
Yukon

Gray Wolf (Canis lupus) --> Alaska Interior Wolf (Canis lupus pambasileus)

Medved

Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus) --> Siberian Forest Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus sibiricus)

Gray Wolf (Canis lupus) --> Tundra Wolf (Canis lupus albus)

[steep ermine]

I would leave wolves the same unless they were included in Eurasia and they should include the Eurasian wolf and on the other hand they should include that subspecies of reindeer.

[rugged hawk]

Aren't the only two maps with em Yukon and Medved?

[steep ermine]

ye

[rugged hawk]

Then those subspecies work yes, Tundra Wolf is a Eurasian subspecies.

[steep ermine]

Medved is more situated in the deep Siberian taiga, not in Eurasian Siberia

[rugged hawk]

What are you talking about?

[violet nebula]

Medved is in the Yamal peninsula if what he showed us is where this type of wolf is then it works

[rugged hawk]

Yes it's colored in in this map lol

[violet nebula]

So it goes

[steep ermine]

@rugged hawk you're right.

[rugged hawk]

This would definitely bring a whole new life to COTW tbh

[glacial stratus]

You forgot the mountain lion / puma subspecies and the bobcats to

[steep ermine]

The bobcats are fine and the puma, well, I didn't know that, I'm going to investigate it.

[steep ermine]

According to the research I have done, the mountain lion is the same animal as the puma, but it receives another name depending on where it is found. It is like the European mouflon, which in Central Europe is called mouflon or European mouflon, and in Spain it is called the Iberian mouflon, but they are the same animal.

[steep ermine]

And if we add these changes: https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1272895734034726974, the game would be even better, much better.

[glacial stratus]

There are at least 2 subspecies of puma the North American and the south American and based on where they are found ingame mountain lion would be the north American subspecies and the puma would be the southern you are correct they are just different naming conventions but their ranges would make them different subspecies

[glacial stratus]

Also using mouflon as an example of this sort of taxonomy is not great since the European mouflon and just mouflon are 2 different species one being a primitive domestic sheep breed and the other being the wild ancestors of domestic sheep

[steep ermine]

You are not right, because the mouflon, Iberian mouflon or European mouflon are the same animal but depending on the place it is called one way or another but the animal is the same and with the puma exactly the same thing happens.

[glacial stratus]

No they are not the mouflon is a wild sheep from cyprus and the Caspian region.
The European mouflon and iberian mouflon are indeed the same thing just from different regions but they are referring to a basal breed of domestic sheep not the actual mouflon which is not native to western or central europe

The puma is named differently essentially at random but does have distinct subspecies primarily distinguished by location many are disputed but 2 almost every classification agrees upon is north vs South American

[rugged hawk]

I think the thing to do with Puma concolor is to indeed split it into North vs South, with an upgrade. The two animals on top are South American, the two on the bottom are North American.

[steep ermine]

Bro, you are wrong, the European mouflon (Ovis orientalis musimon) receives several names depending on the place, which would be mouflon, common mouflon, European mouflon or Iberian mouflon, but they are all the same animal.

[glacial stratus]

According to the American society of mammologists a credible taxonomic data base ovis aries musimon is the correct scientific name for the European mouflon making it a basal domestic sheep breed this is backed by countless studies suggesting that they are feral populations of early neolithic domestication of ovis gmelini the original mouflon

[steep ermine]

But domestic sheep are not called mouflon, if it is true that the European mouflon is a wild subspecies of that sheep, but the domestic sheep is simply a domestic sheep, it is not called mouflon by any means.

[glacial stratus]

I know but mouflon as a term also refers to the actual wild sheep of the caspian which is ovis gemlini this is the original mouflon population and is sometimes also refered to as the asian mouflon. to say mouflon and European mouflon as the same thing is as wrong as saying the term wolf is the same as grey wolf

[sonic ibex]

That’s already been done.

Irl they are respectively referred to as Andean Puma and Mountain Lion.

[glacial stratus]

It isn’t split ingame though both the mountain lion and puma share a codex entry under puma no subspecies specified

[sonic ibex]

Absolutely ZERO people go in the codex.

They share similar habitat in complete different sides of the world. It makes no difference, name is plenty.

[glacial stratus]

I mean fair enough except we are also here arguing just as pedantic claims so i still think its a valid claim to try and distinguish the 2 apart at least just as valid as renaming the caribou

[vital orbit]

I visit the codex frequently, especially if I need to prove something (Like proving that Layton Lakes is firmly in the Lower 48 and not British Columbia)

[vital orbit]

I have heard that all European Mouflon are now considered essentially a very ancient breed of feral sheep and that they descended from domesticated sheep brought to Sardinia and Corsica by humans well before the Bronze Age, meaning that the only true mouflon live in Cyprus, Turkey, Iran and Armenia (with some in Azerbaijan and a few in Iraq)

[glacial stratus]

Yeah this is my point pretty much and its pretty solidly agreed upon the iucn includes the European mouflon underneath the domestic sheep separated entirely from the mouflon in turkey so as far as the iucn goes all European mouflon both name and distribution are feral domestic sheep

[rugged hawk]

Went ahead and applied this to my #1316459413682389102 concept

[steep ermine]

@delicate hemlock Wouldn't you like these subspecies to exist in the game?

[delicate hemlock]

i´m completly okay with subsepecies. the only problem i have with your post that that would effect great ones

[steep ermine]

Well of course it affects the great ones, because what do you propose so that it doesn't affect the great ones if subspecies are implemented?

[delicate hemlock]

still having the great ones on them ? in the end it wouldnt change much about the animals that are effected by that. maybe besides the couses deer..

[rugged hawk]

Think about this - people want even MORE variation with their GOs right? Well that would be a super easy way of doing it

[delicate hemlock]

couses deer with white tail GO rack

[rugged hawk]

Bahahaha that would be silly but screw it it'd be awesome

[narrow frigate]

Not a fan that the g1s would only be obtainable on 1 map. Makes every g1 grind the same

[steep ermine]

That would only happen to the moose and they would surely get GOs for the other subspecies, that is if they make this distinction between subspecies.

[narrow frigate]

It's a great idea but it'd be best if they filled out more g1s before they worry about sub species

[steep ermine]

Yes, but I think that if they make the subspecies, it is most likely that they will make G1 of each one.

[narrow frigate]

They don't even have a g1 for most species to begin with I doubt they'd have one for every single subspecies

[slate heart]

bumping this back up again

[hexed falcon]

Turn those Rancho whitetails into Coues

[steep ermine]

I've made several changes to my concept of subspecies distinctions to make it in a way that doesn't affect great ones as much and is "easier to do" for developers.

[steep ermine]

Subspecies Distinction and Replace of Species

[steep ermine]

I would say it is the Alaskan caribou (granti) rather than the Barren-ground caribou (groenlandicus), but if it is as you say I would like you to show it to me since everywhere I look for information it says that is the subspecies I am talking about (granti).

[slate heart]

Moose subspecies on the different maps:
Shiras Moose (Layton Lake + potential backfill for Silver Ridge Peaks)
Mid-Siberian Moose/Yakutia Moose (Medved Taiga)
Alaska Moose (Yukon Valley)
European Moose (Revontuli Coast)
Eastern Moose (New England Mountains)
Western Moose (Askiy Ridge)

[oblique gale]

https://markvpeterson.com/deer-slam/

Also has some other Slams

[lucid valley]

Yakutia Moose (A. a. pfizenmayeri) for the Moose of Medved Taiga.

[slate heart]

as far as I can tell, that's just a different name for the Mid-Siberian Moose.

[prisma carbon]

I think Yakutia sounds nicer than Mid-Siberian

[timid pumice]

As long as G1's are basically fantasy animals I see know reason to specialize based on subspecies.

They could however create a more realistic subspecies variant ... just a single skin that represents that subspecies .... This variant would only show up on the appropriate map for that subspecies but all the other fantasy types would be available as well ....

So this subspecies G1 would be even more rare than the fantasy skins ....

[steep ermine]

What do you mean by that?

[timid pumice]

What I'm saying is that all subspecies show have access to the current G1 pool for that Species....

So for example if they decide to continue down the road of making G1's with widely exaggerated and fantasy skins then all Elk kills regardless of location should have the opportunity to spawn from the same G1 pool .... They are essentially made up skins that all belong to the same species of ELK .....

However if we want subspecies to be represented in the species G1 pool then they could create one skin that is a realistic depiction of that subspecies ...

So that you would only be able to spawn that subspecies G1 on the appropriate map. (IE Rosy G1 only on Layton, RME G1 only currently on SRP and the Manitoban Elk G1 only on AR.

[steep ermine]

So...
The existing G1 could be left in place but applied to the shape and size of each subspecies, although in my opinion I prefer them to treat each subspecies separately, except in the case of the Western and Eastern moose. The European and Alaskan moose would use the same furs as the current G1, but with different antlers: the Alaskan moose would be larger and the European moose would be smaller.

and the western moose and eastern moose would be the current moose but they would weigh differently and would have some special furs of the subspecies.

[timid pumice]

If the subspecies are to remain separate now and in the future don't take away from the work that has already been done in creating the current G1 models... But add to them with at least one G1 model that represents that current subspecies .... That Subspecies G1 should only be available on the map that represents that subspecies ....

[lucid valley]

The subspecies of Pronghorn (Antilocapra americana):

• A. a. americana
• A. a. mexicana
• A. a. oregona
• A. a. peninsularis
• A. a. sonoriensis

||Image Credit: Ricardo Nunez Suarez||

[timid pumice]

This is a great illustration in the event that they made pronghorn a G1..... Go ahead and make the fantasy furs that show a great deal of creativity but also include one fur from each subspecies category ....

I say only one because as you can see there is really not a whole lot of difference other than maybe size and some slight color variations .....

[lucid valley]

The distribution of the subspecies of Pronghorn

||Source: The American Society of Mammalogists.||

[lucid valley]

I would be very happy to have a diamond Pronghorn from each subspecies, each with its own unique fur.

[lucid valley]

The subspecies of Pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) in COTW:

• American Pronghorn (A. a. americana) -> Askiy Ridge and Silver Ridge Peaks
• Sonoran Pronghorn (A. a. sonoriensis) -> Rancho del Arroyo
• Oregon Pronghorn (A. a. oregona) -> Layton Lake District (backfilling??? LLD doesn't have the appropriate biome for Pronghorn)

[tribal jungle]

Yes

But I'd like subspecies ONLY if they're vastly different. You get what I'm saying?

[prisma citrus]

BUMP

RAHHHH

Reworked Caribou on Yukon and name was recognised as a subspecies!

[tribal jungle]

Are coyote subspecies different? And Isn't Medved reindeer supposed to be Siberian?

[prisma citrus]

Siberian was more of a choice, I think Mountain Reindeer are more common in Russia.

[tribal jungle]

This is what I have found on the range of Mountain Reindeer

[prisma citrus]

Oh well then I don’t know, they probably have their reasons..

[lucid valley]

Grant Caribou 👌

[prisma citrus]

Yep, and the model looks fabulous 🥰

[tribal jungle]

Are Coyote subspecies really distinct, or can they last without them?

[lucid valley]

• Siberian Tundra Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus sibiricus) in the Tundra of Siberia

• Siberian Forest Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus valentine) in Altai Mountains (Mongolia) and Urals Mountains (Russia).

[lucid valley]

The landscape of the Medved-Taiga reminds me of the Ural Mountains. I'm explaining why the EW assigned the “Mountain” Reindeer to this subspecies.

[topaz halo]

As a South Dakotan, I never get tired of seeing pronghorn east of the Missouri River. You don't see them often, but their population is growing and it's a treat every time. That said, I typically hunt them within a few miles of the Montana border.

[lucid valley]

Yes, the population seems established, but I think that three subspecies need protection.

[topaz halo]

I couldn't tell, is that an island of the main South Dakota population or is it a completely different subspecies?

[lucid valley]

In South Dakota, there is only the common and abundant subspecies A. a. americana.

[topaz halo]

That's what I thought. Same subspecies, just more rare East River.

[lucid valley]

It explains the reason

[topaz halo]

That's definitely part of it, the other is that it's extremely hard to cross the river due to all the dams making them lake reservoirs. Only points across are the few highways and I-90.

[primal copper]

Layton would have Shiras moose askiy would have Western

[lucid valley]

I understand it

[topaz halo]

There were very few east of the Missouri anyway when the Army Corps of Engineers started building the dams and flooding the Missouri River Valley. But they're growing and there are huntable populations in a few counties.

[primal copper]

Medved wouldnt have european moose but ussuri or yakutia elk

[topaz halo]

The difference in moose subspecies and varying sizes of diamond racks for them would really look nice in the trophy lodges.

[primal copper]

European moose are also more slender

[lucid valley]

Small antlers typically

[topaz halo]

It will be interesting to see if the other elk species get remodeled with the release of the Manitoban, but the Manitoban models seem to be producing really realistic racks for both species and subspecies. Gives me hope that if we ever got a Pennsylvania map, we could get some crazy monsters that the region is known for producing.

[lucid valley]

It is requested by the community. Yes, it is true. People want EW to add Non-typical Elk.

[topaz halo]

Pennsylvania is probably the most interesting study in the reintroduction of elk to the Eastern US. They're Rocky Mountain Elk, but seem to have really benefitted from the nutrition and minerals of the food sources the area has to offer. Their antlers are dark, massive, and uncommonly gnarly in general compared to most RM Elk. Almost seem to take on characteristics of the extinct Eastern Elk. They're uniquely different in general than almost any other population of RM Elk, even other eastern state transplants.

[primal copper]

Northwestern wolves on alberta and yukon

[lucid valley]

The famous zone of Keystone Elk Country Alliance.
The elk sculpture in front of the Elk County Visitor Center in Benezette, Pa.

[tribal jungle]

What are some species that really deserve subspecies?

[topaz halo]

Elk, Bighorn, Moose, Mule Deer, Whitetail to an extent. Maybe Coyote.

[tribal jungle]

Thanks. Desert Bighorn are quite lighter than RM specimens, so they'd be class 4 imo

[vital orbit]

Moose with potentially 6 subspecies

• Shiras on Layton
• Alaskan Moose on Yukon
• Yakutian Moose on Medved
• European Moose on Revontouli
• Eastern Moose on New England
• Western on Askiy

White-tailed Deer with several subspecies

• Coue's on Rancho
• Dakota White-tailed Deer on Askiy
• Northern White-tails on New England and Revontouli
• Virginia White-tailed Deer on Mississippi

Desert Bighorns and Desert Mule Deer on Rancho

[haughty ivy]

Idk, Coyotes are all very similar. There are separate subspecies but they’re all basically indistinguishable aside from slight differences in size and coats.

[faint pine]

we already have 3 elk species now

[haughty ivy]

Elk already have subspecies

[haughty ivy]

The subspecies of reindeer found in Siberia (closest to where Medved is allegedly set) is the Novaya Zemlya reindeer, which is found both on the island of Novaya Zemlya and on the Yamal peninsula. Honestly, Mountain Reindeer work though (even though they’re usually called Siberian Tundra Reindeer) as they are found in parts of the Ural Mountains. Hopefully with the addition of a subspecies name on the reindeer, it means we eventually get Forest Reindeer on Revontuli Coast

[lucid valley]

A map of the distribution of the 19 known subspecies of Coyote (Canis latrans) plus Canis latrans “var”, the Eastern Coyote, a hybrid between the coyote and wolf.
Source: the website projectcoyote. org

[topaz halo]

Yeah, not sure why I typed that. Brain fart.

[dense remnant]

Since splitting subspecies for em would be a major pain without much model difference perhaps they could simply make a summer and a winter model where the winter model would be found in the northern reserves and the summer on Rancho or any future southern reserves? They could be called coyote or give them all their subspecies names but then EW wouldn’t have to make so many new models for em (ik there’s only 3 in game rn but if ever they added a new map or backfill it would be less work)

[dense remnant]

I’d hazard a guess that this is prolly the map they used but who knows

[timid pumice]

They already have multiple fur types in the game which seems to support speciation ... Any anttempt to go further would be in the text names only... The models are just not that much different ... Couse deer being the most glaring exception ....

[prisma citrus]

Bump

[prisma citrus]

Bump

[primal copper]

Bump

[rare kestrel]

"european moose" isnt it Eurasian moose?

[velvet relic]

Nuh uh European moose biggest moose, especially Swedish

[vital orbit]

Funny you say that when both the Alaskan and Chukota Moose exist, as both subspecies are massive, to be fair the European Moose is probably a bit bigger then Eastern Moose and certainly larger then the Amur Moose

[velvet relic]

Well it’s how i’ve come to understand it, it’s said to be the most aggressive moose too

[vital orbit]

From what I have read a European moose bull can weigh about 320 to 475 kg (705 to 1,047 lb), while the average Alaskan moose cow can get as large as 478 kg (1,054 lb) with the largest Alaskan Moose bull being 1,808 pounds according to the Guiness Book of World Records and I'm guessing even an average bull moose from Alaska is still bigger then a large European Moose. To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if the really large European Moose were living in the more remote parts of Western Russia and Northern Europe

[velvet relic]

yeah i mean i haven’t really got a good comparison, i live in Sweden and have come close with moose irl, tho i do not live up north and there is a lot of forest here, it’s basically all that swedish nature is hahhaha, tho i doubt Russia because especially in Siberia i think it lacks the resources for them to grow that big, tho they definetly survive their i expect the smallest size of these moose, not to be confused with the pygmy moose

[vital orbit]

Siberian Moose are quoted as being similar in size to the Western Moose of Canada and the Midwestern US, the second largest subspecies in North America with Bulls weighing from 380–720 kilograms (840–1,590 lb)

[rare kestrel]

Wait isnt the moose in europe the Eurasian moose

[peak pier]

Northwestern/McKenzie Gray Wolf for Askiy Ridge

[vital orbit]

No its referred to as the European Moose or European Elk and yes they still call the moose "elk", it was something they did before European colonization of North America when the name wound up on the North American Elk (Cervus canadensis), which is also referred to as the Wapiti. The word "Moose" came from the the Algonquian language and it translates to "twig-eater"

[rare kestrel]

oh ok

[vivid viper]

I’m all for subspecies, but I would be very upset if I can’t grind for a G1 moose on Yukon (My favourite moose map) Also, let’s say you did grind for one on Yukon and spawned one before the hypothetical update. What would happen with that G1?

[velvet relic]

I agree, let the subspecies distinction exist but let the g1s be available everywhere the animal is

[vivid viper]

This would be the perfect change 👍