#Subspecies Distinction and Replace of Species

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

steep ermine
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Moose (Alces alces):

  • Alaska Moose [class 8] (Alces alces gigas) --> Yukon Valley
  • Eastern Moose [class 8] (Alces alces americana) --> New England Mountains
  • Western Moose [class 8] (Alces alces andersoni) --> Layton Lake District/Askiy Ridge
  • Eurasian Moose [class 8] (Alces alces alces) --> Medved-Taiga/Revontuli Coast

Red Deer (Cervus Elaphus):

  • Iberian Red Deer (Cervus elaphus hispanicus) --> Cuatro Colinas

Gray Wolf (Canis lupus):

  • Eurasian Wolf (Canis lupus lupus) --> Medved-Taiga

Mule Deer (Odocoileus hemionus):

  • Desert Mule Deer (Odocoileus hemionus crooki/eremicus) --> Rancho del Arroyo
lucid valley
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In Medved Taiga National Park: I think the subspecie is Mid-Siberian Moose (Alces alces pfizenmayeri) = Yakutia Moose

vital orbit
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Again I will point out that the moose subspecies that would be appropriate for Layton Lakes is not the Western Moose but the Shiras Moose (Alces alces shirasi)

They are found from Southern British Columbia through Washington, Idaho and Montana to as far south as Utah and Colorado

steep ermine
vital orbit
lucid valley
vital orbit
# lucid valley Is Layton Lake District based on the state of Washington?

There was some stuff in the in-game codex that points to Layton being in either Washington (most likely), Oregon, or both. I ruled out British Columbia when the Layton Lakes Lodge came out thanks to the US Flag, plus those are the only 2 states that both have Columbian Black-tailed Deer and Shiras Moose. The only parts of the United States to have Western Moose are Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

lucid valley
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We need a map for Sitka Blacktail (British Columbia) and other map for Tule Elk and Desert Bighorn (California), I think at least. More Local Animals, of course.

faint pine
lucid valley
faint pine
lucid valley
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So, it must be Coues' Whitetail instead of Whitetail in Rancho, right?

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And Desert Mule Deer too.

vital orbit
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If I recall correctly Rancho was based specifically in Sonora, Mexico

steep ermine
vital orbit
violet nebula
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I had trouble seeing the difference between a Shiras elk and another species of elk.

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For medved-taiga I think it is more the alces the alces pfizenmayer because the cameloid is located in the south-east of Siberia and it is the smallest and the darkest fur of all the species if I have well understood. While the A. a Pfizenmayer is located further up Siberia and further west. I would say more him because Medved-Taïga is based on the Yamal peninsula which is located in the northwest of Siberia and not in the southeast.

vital orbit
violet nebula
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ok so the other one must be the smallest of the European and Asian species

violet nebula
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Ok

faint pine
steep ermine
haughty ivy
faint pine
haughty ivy
faint pine
haughty ivy
# faint pine just make the model small and a different truracs, make some more gray type furs...

I’ve been wanting Coues deer for years, and I’ve always wanted some variation in the whitetail. The ones in Layton need to be smaller bodied with smaller antlers (could just shrink down the current racks and it would honestly be good). The ones on NEM and Revontuli need to be massive in body size with smaller antlers. The ones in Mississippi would be about right for the ones in game.

twilit dagger
haughty ivy
twilit dagger
vital orbit
static helm
steep ermine
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Subspecies Distinction Update

faint pine
scenic venture
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Ngl the work load for them working this all out would be crazy I feel bad for whoever has to identify the red fox subspecies

scenic venture
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?

steep ermine
# scenic venture ?

I mean that it is a big job to distinguish certain subspecies within the game to improve its diversity of animals but nothing is impossible and I trust that one day they will do it.

versed slate
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Bump

scenic venture
dense remnant
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If they do whitetail they’d end up with at least 4 subspecies ( uncertain where Europe’s whitetail came from but I’m guessing they’re either the Northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail O. v. borealis, or the Southern/Virginia Whitetail O. v. virginianus)

Layton lakes would have the northwestern/northern Rocky Mountain whitetail (O. v. ochrourus)

New England would have the northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail (O. v. borealis)

Mississippi would either have the Southern/Virginia white tailed deer (O. v. virginianus) which I think would be more popular, or the Florida Costal Whitetail (O. v. osceola) which are more coastal (as the name states lol) they could do both as well I suppose just having the southerns be more inland.

And of course Rancho would have the Coues/Arizona Whitetail/Fantail Deer (O. v. couesi)

vital orbit
dense remnant
# vital orbit If I do recall correctly the White-tailed Deer in Finland did come from the Midw...

Could be, but the Midwest is home to 4 subspecies of whitetail so they could go with a new one if they felt like it I suppose. The options would be the Kansas Whitetail (O. v. macrourus), Texas Whitetail (O. v. texanus), Dakota/Northern Plains Whitetail (O. v. dacotensis) or the previously mentioned Northern/Northern Woodland Whitetail (O. v. borealis). If they did the Dakota you’d have the two largest subspecies present in Cotw and they have the most northern range of any subspecies which would make sense for Finland. But I’m not pressed about it in any case.

vital orbit
# dense remnant Could be, but the Midwest is home to 4 subspecies of whitetail so they could go ...

I looked into it: It was Minnesota and more specifically near the city of Virginia (https://yle.fi/a/3-10294577) and based on a map of white-tail subspecies that means the Finnish White-tails are the Northern subspecies (O.v.borealis)

I guess the only way we could get a Dakota White-tailed Deer (The most abundant subspecies where I live) would be to have a bird centric map (Geese, Grouse, Sandhill Cranes, etc) set in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Alberta or Saskatchewan that also includes some big game animals (alongside all the White-tail Subspecies being made distinctive)

dense remnant
# vital orbit I looked into it: It was Minnesota and more specifically near the city of Virgin...

Eh wouldn’t really have to be bird centric tho that would be fine, could just be based in the Eastern regions of Montana or Wyoming if you want to have another map for pronghorn, plains bison and all that but getting greater sage grouse, snow geese, or wood ducks would be cool, if you’re wanting bird centric I’d avoid mt and wy they’re decent but the dakotas beat em out handily waterfowl population wise from what I’ve seen. But I suppose this is getting off topic.

prisma citrus
prisma citrus
rugged hawk
steep ermine
rugged hawk
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Aren't the only two maps with em Yukon and Medved?

rugged hawk
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Then those subspecies work yes, Tundra Wolf is a Eurasian subspecies.

steep ermine
rugged hawk
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What are you talking about?

violet nebula
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Medved is in the Yamal peninsula if what he showed us is where this type of wolf is then it works

rugged hawk
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Yes it's colored in in this map lol

violet nebula
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So it goes

steep ermine
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@rugged hawk you're right.

rugged hawk
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This would definitely bring a whole new life to COTW tbh

glacial stratus
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You forgot the mountain lion / puma subspecies and the bobcats to

steep ermine
steep ermine
steep ermine
glacial stratus
glacial stratus
steep ermine
glacial stratus
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The puma is named differently essentially at random but does have distinct subspecies primarily distinguished by location many are disputed but 2 almost every classification agrees upon is north vs South American

rugged hawk
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I think the thing to do with Puma concolor is to indeed split it into North vs South, with an upgrade. The two animals on top are South American, the two on the bottom are North American.

steep ermine
glacial stratus
steep ermine
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But domestic sheep are not called mouflon, if it is true that the European mouflon is a wild subspecies of that sheep, but the domestic sheep is simply a domestic sheep, it is not called mouflon by any means.

glacial stratus
sonic ibex
glacial stratus
sonic ibex
glacial stratus
vital orbit
vital orbit
glacial stratus
rugged hawk
steep ermine
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@delicate hemlock Wouldn't you like these subspecies to exist in the game?

delicate hemlock
steep ermine
delicate hemlock
rugged hawk
delicate hemlock
rugged hawk
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Bahahaha that would be silly but screw it it'd be awesome

narrow frigate
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Not a fan that the g1s would only be obtainable on 1 map. Makes every g1 grind the same

steep ermine
narrow frigate
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It's a great idea but it'd be best if they filled out more g1s before they worry about sub species

steep ermine
narrow frigate
slate heart
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bumping this back up again

hexed falcon
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Turn those Rancho whitetails into Coues

steep ermine
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I've made several changes to my concept of subspecies distinctions to make it in a way that doesn't affect great ones as much and is "easier to do" for developers.

steep ermine
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Subspecies Distinction and Replace of Species

steep ermine
slate heart
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Moose subspecies on the different maps:
Shiras Moose (Layton Lake + potential backfill for Silver Ridge Peaks)
Mid-Siberian Moose/Yakutia Moose (Medved Taiga)
Alaska Moose (Yukon Valley)
European Moose (Revontuli Coast)
Eastern Moose (New England Mountains)
Western Moose (Askiy Ridge)

oblique gale
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Also has some other Slams

lucid valley
slate heart
prisma carbon
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I think Yakutia sounds nicer than Mid-Siberian

timid pumice
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As long as G1's are basically fantasy animals I see know reason to specialize based on subspecies.

They could however create a more realistic subspecies variant ... just a single skin that represents that subspecies .... This variant would only show up on the appropriate map for that subspecies but all the other fantasy types would be available as well ....

So this subspecies G1 would be even more rare than the fantasy skins ....

timid pumice
# steep ermine What do you mean by that?

What I'm saying is that all subspecies show have access to the current G1 pool for that Species....

So for example if they decide to continue down the road of making G1's with widely exaggerated and fantasy skins then all Elk kills regardless of location should have the opportunity to spawn from the same G1 pool .... They are essentially made up skins that all belong to the same species of ELK .....

However if we want subspecies to be represented in the species G1 pool then they could create one skin that is a realistic depiction of that subspecies ...

So that you would only be able to spawn that subspecies G1 on the appropriate map. (IE Rosy G1 only on Layton, RME G1 only currently on SRP and the Manitoban Elk G1 only on AR.

steep ermine
# timid pumice What I'm saying is that all subspecies show have access to the current G1 pool f...

So...
The existing G1 could be left in place but applied to the shape and size of each subspecies, although in my opinion I prefer them to treat each subspecies separately, except in the case of the Western and Eastern moose. The European and Alaskan moose would use the same furs as the current G1, but with different antlers: the Alaskan moose would be larger and the European moose would be smaller.

and the western moose and eastern moose would be the current moose but they would weigh differently and would have some special furs of the subspecies.

timid pumice
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If the subspecies are to remain separate now and in the future don't take away from the work that has already been done in creating the current G1 models... But add to them with at least one G1 model that represents that current subspecies .... That Subspecies G1 should only be available on the map that represents that subspecies ....

lucid valley
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The subspecies of Pronghorn (Antilocapra americana):

  • A. a. americana
  • A. a. mexicana
  • A. a. oregona
  • A. a. peninsularis
  • A. a. sonoriensis

||Image Credit: Ricardo Nunez Suarez||

timid pumice
lucid valley
lucid valley
lucid valley
tribal jungle
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But I'd like subspecies ONLY if they're vastly different. You get what I'm saying?

prisma citrus
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BUMP

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RAHHHH

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Reworked Caribou on Yukon and name was recognised as a subspecies!

tribal jungle
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Are coyote subspecies different? And Isn't Medved reindeer supposed to be Siberian?

prisma citrus
tribal jungle
prisma citrus
lucid valley
prisma citrus
tribal jungle
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Are Coyote subspecies really distinct, or can they last without them?

lucid valley
# prisma citrus RAHHHH
  • Siberian Tundra Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus sibiricus) in the Tundra of Siberia

  • Siberian Forest Reindeer (Rangifer tarandus valentine) in Altai Mountains (Mongolia) and Urals Mountains (Russia).

lucid valley
# prisma citrus RAHHHH

The landscape of the Medved-Taiga reminds me of the Ural Mountains. I'm explaining why the EW assigned the “Mountain” Reindeer to this subspecies.

topaz halo
lucid valley
topaz halo
lucid valley
topaz halo
lucid valley
topaz halo
# lucid valley It explains the reason

That's definitely part of it, the other is that it's extremely hard to cross the river due to all the dams making them lake reservoirs. Only points across are the few highways and I-90.

primal copper
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Layton would have Shiras moose askiy would have Western

topaz halo
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There were very few east of the Missouri anyway when the Army Corps of Engineers started building the dams and flooding the Missouri River Valley. But they're growing and there are huntable populations in a few counties.

primal copper
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Medved wouldnt have european moose but ussuri or yakutia elk

topaz halo
primal copper
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European moose are also more slender

lucid valley
topaz halo
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It will be interesting to see if the other elk species get remodeled with the release of the Manitoban, but the Manitoban models seem to be producing really realistic racks for both species and subspecies. Gives me hope that if we ever got a Pennsylvania map, we could get some crazy monsters that the region is known for producing.

lucid valley
topaz halo
# lucid valley It is requested by the community. Yes, it is true. People want EW to add Non-typ...

Pennsylvania is probably the most interesting study in the reintroduction of elk to the Eastern US. They're Rocky Mountain Elk, but seem to have really benefitted from the nutrition and minerals of the food sources the area has to offer. Their antlers are dark, massive, and uncommonly gnarly in general compared to most RM Elk. Almost seem to take on characteristics of the extinct Eastern Elk. They're uniquely different in general than almost any other population of RM Elk, even other eastern state transplants.

primal copper
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Northwestern wolves on alberta and yukon

lucid valley
tribal jungle
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What are some species that really deserve subspecies?

topaz halo
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Elk, Bighorn, Moose, Mule Deer, Whitetail to an extent. Maybe Coyote.

tribal jungle
vital orbit
# tribal jungle What are some species that really deserve subspecies?

Moose with potentially 6 subspecies

  • Shiras on Layton
  • Alaskan Moose on Yukon
  • Yakutian Moose on Medved
  • European Moose on Revontouli
  • Eastern Moose on New England
  • Western on Askiy

White-tailed Deer with several subspecies

  • Coue's on Rancho
  • Dakota White-tailed Deer on Askiy
  • Northern White-tails on New England and Revontouli
  • Virginia White-tailed Deer on Mississippi

Desert Bighorns and Desert Mule Deer on Rancho

haughty ivy
faint pine
haughty ivy
haughty ivy
# tribal jungle This is what I have found on the range of Mountain Reindeer

The subspecies of reindeer found in Siberia (closest to where Medved is allegedly set) is the Novaya Zemlya reindeer, which is found both on the island of Novaya Zemlya and on the Yamal peninsula. Honestly, Mountain Reindeer work though (even though they’re usually called Siberian Tundra Reindeer) as they are found in parts of the Ural Mountains. Hopefully with the addition of a subspecies name on the reindeer, it means we eventually get Forest Reindeer on Revontuli Coast

lucid valley
topaz halo
dense remnant
# lucid valley A map of the distribution of the 19 known subspecies of Coyote (Canis latrans) p...

Since splitting subspecies for em would be a major pain without much model difference perhaps they could simply make a summer and a winter model where the winter model would be found in the northern reserves and the summer on Rancho or any future southern reserves? They could be called coyote or give them all their subspecies names but then EW wouldn’t have to make so many new models for em (ik there’s only 3 in game rn but if ever they added a new map or backfill it would be less work)

dense remnant
timid pumice
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They already have multiple fur types in the game which seems to support speciation ... Any anttempt to go further would be in the text names only... The models are just not that much different ... Couse deer being the most glaring exception ....

prisma citrus
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Bump

prisma citrus
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Bump

primal copper
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Bump

rare kestrel
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"european moose" isnt it Eurasian moose?

velvet relic
vital orbit
velvet relic
vital orbit
# velvet relic Well it’s how i’ve come to understand it, it’s said to be the most aggressive mo...

From what I have read a European moose bull can weigh about 320 to 475 kg (705 to 1,047 lb), while the average Alaskan moose cow can get as large as 478 kg (1,054 lb) with the largest Alaskan Moose bull being 1,808 pounds according to the Guiness Book of World Records and I'm guessing even an average bull moose from Alaska is still bigger then a large European Moose. To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if the really large European Moose were living in the more remote parts of Western Russia and Northern Europe

velvet relic
# vital orbit From what I have read a European moose bull can weigh about 320 to 475 kg (705 t...

yeah i mean i haven’t really got a good comparison, i live in Sweden and have come close with moose irl, tho i do not live up north and there is a lot of forest here, it’s basically all that swedish nature is hahhaha, tho i doubt Russia because especially in Siberia i think it lacks the resources for them to grow that big, tho they definetly survive their i expect the smallest size of these moose, not to be confused with the pygmy moose

vital orbit
rare kestrel
peak pier
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Northwestern/McKenzie Gray Wolf for Askiy Ridge

vital orbit
# rare kestrel Wait isnt the moose in europe the Eurasian moose

No its referred to as the European Moose or European Elk and yes they still call the moose "elk", it was something they did before European colonization of North America when the name wound up on the North American Elk (Cervus canadensis), which is also referred to as the Wapiti. The word "Moose" came from the the Algonquian language and it translates to "twig-eater"

rare kestrel
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oh ok

vivid viper
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I’m all for subspecies, but I would be very upset if I can’t grind for a G1 moose on Yukon (My favourite moose map) Also, let’s say you did grind for one on Yukon and spawned one before the hypothetical update. What would happen with that G1?

velvet relic
vivid viper