#š¦ļø“great-ones
1 messages Ā· Page 468 of 1
if having the same biological name doesnāt show you that idk what will
they are both mid ahh nimals who cares bout them
Me
wrong
me
parralax has no love for the game
but mid in game
Who loves fallow?
me me me
Horrible life choice
i like the dark spotted fallow
so do i
I like the non existent fallow
the colour variations are so cool
largely for simplicity, as far as I know caribou and reindeer are too genetically distinct to interbreed and molecular genetics shows them arising from different origin populations and being parallel developments
i speak english
Crayon
monkey
Sharpie
pancake
Cheese
orange
There's a word in that paragraph that scares me
āmolecularā
Reminds me of chemistry
Ew indeed
Reindeer and Caribou are the same animal, just two different names. Wild reindeer in North america are called Caribou and wild reindeer in Asia or Europe are called Reindeer. Captive ones are also called reindeer. There are many different subspecies of Reindeer/Caribou but they are all the same species
Like puma and mtn lion
Its the same for pumas/mountain lions/cougars/catamounts
Yep
they might have some slight genetic changes but not enough to be classified as a different species
Its used in south america I think
The one thing that's weird to me is that Caribou and Reindeer have like a 2kg track difference for whatever reason lol
The cougars or the reindeer?
The reindeer
reinder
Well like I said, there are multiple different subspecies that are different but still the same species
Sounds right
yeah thats what i meant
No no ik, thanks tho
I think the main differences are size and antlers
Just pointing out the absolute tomfoolery Google has just done lmao
But this is an interesting convo chat
Ppl are learning
Normally it's pointless and stupid yapping
This is fun
Wheres alpha when we need him
size, antlers, fur (color and how thick it is), and ofc where they live
iām google, iāll give you da answer. thereās no genetic or biological difference between the 2. they hand the same scientific name and there are the same exact species one just is domesticated
some dude tried to come in saying ātHeY hAvE dIfFeReNt DnAā no they donāt. theyāre the same species
There may be some sub-species with difference, but they are not the same
The 2 species called "Caribou" and "Reindeer" share the same biological factors
same scientific name
Everything but their name
Scientific name yes
English name no
And their model + weight estimate on cotw lol
am I interrupting a class of biology here?
yes
sorry bout that, continue please
Adenosine Triphosphate
elephant
Aerobic and anaerobic respiration
bevur
Water
what time for pheasants do you guys use?
no
one of the afternoon times
they are different subspecies
these are the seven subspecies with their scientific names
correct
if theyāre were different subspecies they wouldnāt have the same biological name
i have oneš¤
well all of them are rangifer tarandus but some of them are for example rangifer tarandus fennicus
Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell
what
youāre pulling that graph off of different sub species from the species thatās is rangifer tarandus which are caribou and reindeer. caribou is a domesticated reindeer brought in from eurasia
wrong
iām the powerhouse of the cell
behr time!
good one
Naw itās the grinders I keep in my basement
what, caribou werent brought in from eurasia??
as far as i know
take auz
you keep people in your basementš¤Ø
pls donāt, i have to go to da hospital every month
she will let you
this graph is from rangifer tarandus (caribous/reindeer)
caribou is the name for rangifer tarandus in north america, and reindeer is the name for them in europe and asia. (domestic ones are also called reindeer)
thatās witerawy what i said
well you said caribou are domesticated reindeer (no) and they were brought from eurasia (they werent)
caribou are domesticated reindeer and iād like to see a source that says otherwise
Caribou are a subspecies of reindeer that live in America
According to one person yea
no theyāre not
i think it's flipped
well itās not
reindeer are the domesticated ones
let me guess, google ?
yeah, do you have better proof?
They never tried to domesticate Caribou in America its not causation
š bro what could we POSSIBLY be arguing about
i will
tbf we had this conversation early afternoon and everybody decided to pounce on it again
here's the national park service
This information comes from the National park service
lol
Its local names for basically the same animal, check the taxonomy, dont get me started on taxonomy
who the heck cares they both have cool antlers in cotw
well either way whether one was domesticated or not the original convo was people were saying caribou and reindeer arenāt the same species. anna rekindled this convo by saying reindeer and caribou are not the same species then they eventually agreed now everybodyās pressed because one was domesticated over the other
part of me thinks naming them the same species is an oversight though
at the very least domestic reindeer are their own species
wym
because they cant interbreed with caribou, they're genetically too different
and believe me, the herders in alaska tried
I agree that caribou and reindeer are the same species, you claimed that there isnt any difference in the DNA wich is untrue
ok but wait, according to the national park service "Caribou and reindeer are the same species and share the same scientific name, Rangifer tarandus. Caribou are what the species is called in North America and reindeer are what they are called in Eurasia."
thats what weve been saying
Same specie, different sub species
I propose Rangifer familiaris for domestic reindeer and Rangifer tarandus can stay for everything else
all i said was they have the same scientific name and they are the same species
okay weāre not gonna get anywhere with this convo
Yeah just local variations
...
all what is was trying to say is:
YES they are the same species,
NO they do have a little different DNA
but itās whatever theyāre the same species
that was the whole point i was tryina make
i mixed up dna with having the same genetics they do have different dna but theyāre genetically the same
well I did get 13k on that one whitetail so....
@north nova apologies for the ping but I thought Iād let you know, if you werenāt already aware as of a few days ago the AI bot discord is using to scrape everyoneās DMs/servers finally got activated. Since youāre the person who let me know about creating a private server for personal use I thought Iād mention it to you, since thatās uhhh, not something I want in my private server, not sure about you lol. It affects all DMs as wellā¦
Ah thank you for the heads up.
Still the same animal
thats what Im saying
how the absolute shizzle are we still talking about ts š
I stopped talking about it
bearb
A ber
No idea.
@somber turret I need a mt hare before new map plz gimme luck
Wut you get
diamond reindeer #115
Holy nice!
But in the event we get a Mongolia map with wapiti and it comes with a great one, it should carry over to every species of elk as well
Pros comp may allow me to find one
115? I bet youāre just WAITING for the day they get reworked
i'm waiting until they get a great one
Iād cry at this point Iām so desperate lmao
TOTAL STATS!!!
we broke 15000 at 15229 kills
1104 trolls
115 diamonds
Thatās wild
and uhm, no super rare
Iām imagine all the rack variations
š®āšØ
the g1 reindeer will be the best g1 in the game when it comes out next month, just wait
Would easily rival moose for sheer size
So it would be bad if I found one cuz you would cry?
Depends if youād let me come hunt it with you š„¹
If no, then sadness
If yes, tears of joy
Yeah you can
You can take my trophy shot ;)
Then I let you out of the grinders basement-
WOAW
lol
Milk
are you not doing hm, 1/130 kill diam rate is really bad
also if they do add a g1 reindeer, they will do a pop reset and delete all of your hm in the first place
keep in mind it's reindeer
even if u do hm, your diam rate will be a lot better. Still if u get your map to like 70% lvl 2's your hm should be way better
I was gonna save it till the end of the year but I think ima shoot my speckled moose today
Reindeer don't get to lvl 2...
They do itās just that small lvl 3s achieve basically the exact same effect
Still so damn weird seeing 10 fabled on my map after over a year of not seeing a GO
I swear Iāve seen lvl 2 reindeer
Hello!
either way if u get any species shot down to a certain trophy score, you will have a better diam rate. So if u go all small 3 reindeer you diam rate will be good
Iām gonna take this thing with the .300 Iām not doing any challenge thatās gonna mandate an hour of stalking and waiting. I wanna Helldivers today asap
Still, probably 90% of them are trolls
Reindeer are fun to grind icl
Even if youāre not getting a lotta trophies, the ones you do find are great
Theyāve still got one of the best melas in the game
im disagreeing with that, its just you still wouldn't have a 1/130 diam rate with hm
Oookkayyyyy I almost shot the damn thing with a .22 weāre off to a flying start
Heās neat ig
Another max est femaleā¦lvl 2
I HATE these things
5.09
Thatās 2 max est females this server, both not even close
Imma start carrying the 470 for these soon
Weird looking duck ngl
Let it grow
š
No way is that a typical!?!?!?
š¤·
Short rack
No that typical
Looks like short rack
Its a great one
No way itās a great one
why are phes so inconsistent
either no respawns or only one of the two males spawns or no animals show to their zones
good gold/dime rate tho well average
rah
I actually entirely forgot about the pheasant
oof
is that grate waun a whitetail
Instead of that stank ass pee bird
Bro I thought it was my first rare too I just saw blue and was like ohhh nice
Then read 10 fabled
No u get pee bird
I want pee bird
Maybe
RAHHHH
Thanks man!
Lmaoo
Thx man
Is fox on sals even worth managing?
Is any animal worth managing?
If your island have a lot of pairs or solos Iād say yes
I only have 4 pairs on island šļø
Whatās max weight and score for diamonds and great ones pheasants anyway ?
Im guessing GO is 28 and 3.40KG but no idea for dimes
they go up to 29 something for g1ās
So mine is small rip
and i cant remember the exact score for max on dime phes but its like 21-22 something iirc
Dimes I believe is 21.90 or something, I have 2 of them but low-key donāt remember
For max I know itās under the 22 range
naaaaa
kill it
Ok
congrats he looks awesome
Any tips for setting up
First great one ever. Casual player and over a year with 3000 kills, I finally got my red deer on emerald coast.
and how do i go about hm'ing them? how many zones should i look for/
21.98 iirc
ggs
go to youtube their are things for all of that
Just wow
godam
Bug can also be useful sometime š
what rack that
looks nice
bear grind begins, 443 kills, 15 dimes
w
1st 9 spawned but its a troll...
oof
Thats Cluster/Crown racks
bruh
Congrats
Do i see correctly is that typ?!
This time I did not mess him up, took 510 kills with 15 dimes and 2 rares
that was a random find when checking exteriors lol
I might take down my pheasant grind go for either moose or whitetale but idk what one
Do it on Rev and then just hunt one, and then the other
i never could get moose working
I think moose and whitetail drink times flow from one to the other dont they??
its my fav g1 but i just dk how to do it
rah
For some1 who has never hunted g1ās (like me) is there a certain animal that is easier to get a g1 for?
Was gonna try to go for one but not sure which to choose
fallow prob easiest
fallow or bear deffo
Ok thanks Iām gonna start my grind today š
Alrighty
Its fox time
Any tips for starting/best map? Havent looked into em since Salz release
RUH
how is my not fav mod tyk
Who is your fav mod?
I am drinking a coffee drink, so I'm boutta be a non-favorite HIGH POWERED mod
yay
some are silent killers
kwaks and tyk are still here but some are never active
starting a new g1 is so much work
never seen draetoc and brobrah do something actually
bear
raaahhhh behr rahhhhhhh
ive seen brobrah in angler more
yesir
im 780 in bears
I saw him there once lol
I remember
Something happened to someone
So we all started saying "#BlameBroBrah"
It was kinda funny
im not in that server
That server went poof so yea lol
oh ziona spawned
since i dont play angler
Is reading hard?
present tense
um yes
If he said didn't play, then I would say that I used to
But since he said don't play, and I don't either, I also said that I don't
#LearningWithZiona02
how is ziona
Make it a hashtag
fine too
Show trophies
spawned my fourth bear today ziona, same as the last one
Fr?
RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Hopefully you didn't botch this one lol
maybe i just start fricking shooting now
nope lol he took 510 kills and was another chestnut
its better then glacier 2 lol
wait what level do i want bear
In exteriors?
Either 4 and below or 3 and below
Depends on how extreme you wanna manage them
3 and below takes a lot longer
ok
I have 4 and below
Oh
yup me too but the previous grind I only got 15 dimes in 510 kills which is terrible
They're still ridiculously rare with hm
I'm currently at 13 diamonds in 351 kills
higher chance
I had a bad rate at the beginning cus of the 2 stacked g1's + 1 diamond tho
I was checking alot of exteriors that grind, and I didn't really have alot of big bears that bounched off
I might do Pheasants soon
I was gonna continue them
After bear
Then I wanted Fallow
But I don't have a Pheasant so idk what I want
I think Pheasanta
i tired
Pheasants*
Then go sleep
i dont wanna tho
Well
I race quitted pheasant after 1400 kills š
i think ima turn of my xbox and just chat in here
Do that
Me at 800
rah
But not quit
I need to manage them
Maybe not fully
But all my exteriors are massive 2's
Hence why my dime rate is like 1/350 or something
1/250 I think
oof
Somewhere in that range
ziona use his hacks and that will lower
ye and I don't have the motivation to check pheasant exteriors like zero motivation
Same dude
Like
The solos in particular are gonna suck
i have no motavation to start a new g1 grind but i want a new g1
yup and pheasant dont have drink zones so they can literally spawn anywhere on the salzwiezen map
That too
Honestly
I'm just gonna focus on getting my Glacier 1 before the new map
Then go crazy on the new g1
ooh lets go first 9 spawned, 22 kills into bear #5
W
he barely made dime
yup
I too, just spawned a 9
W
nah it'll score 24
I know
crazy...
23.67
thats not bad big dime!
when I am done with a run I"ll check like 3 exterior lakes and then go back to do another run and I'll do that till the end of drink time
ziona should i get every fallow fur which is easyier or start a new g1 grind
well I"ll do it just incase
if only if u chould do it for me
but WHYYYYY
well I've had times that I had all my big bears in my mains and when I checked the exteriors I still had like 2 bounchers
That was towards Fishy lol
But
That means either they bounced, yes, or they were already there and you just didn't see them
oh oopsie lol
I immediately notice when I have a bouncer, but ofc that's just me
Another 9
0 rares thus farš
ye not everyone noticed that lol
lucky
fr fr
na hax
brooooo what a rng...
Got bored so I'm now gonna attempt the cod zombies thing which I still haven't completed
did the 9 make dime?
u aint goona do it
crazy
Probably lmao
ur bad
Nice dude!!
I shot my great one then my game crashed it was my second ever depression hits
Jeez dude that sucks
If you're on ps, or I think pc, I'd save my data when I spawn something like a g1 so if your game crashes you can just download the data and have it be there
As if nothing ever happened
Why couldn't the Cinnamon be on the 9 lol
thats what I was thinking but if that was the case knowing my luck it would troll lol
Lol
<@&393042322499305473> ^
Thank
Np
my dime rate is cursed for bears, 115 kills in with 2 dimes š¦
Seems like dime rate for bear in general is cooked
its so weird cause I check alot of exteriors each run but the dimes just won't pop
You just shot a g1
Game acts weird sometimes
That's what it does for me atleast
Could also just be a dry streak, it happens
maybe thats what it is I'll just keep checking exteriors and keep grinding and hope that it turns around
Let me give you a tip
Count how many bears you have in main zones
You'll have about 8 - 15
When you feel like your respawns are being weird, count them again
If you have a few missing then check exteriors, if not just go through the 4 lakes like usual
behr
Checking after every single run just slows things down
Unless they do bounce out after every run
Also chat
I might finally finish this stupid mission
ye maybe I'll have to do a couple runs and when there are less bears in the zones I'll check my exteriors
That's exactly what you should do
bro garanteed dime right when we are typing lolll
And if you are getting bouncers every 2 - 5 runs, here's what you should do
In my experience, the 4 lakes have a "maximum bear capacity", it is different for different players
Let's say you have 10 bear, and your game wants to only accept 8 bear, if this is the case, when a bear bounces out, and spawns as a 4 and under, keep it there, as the game doesn't want it in your 4 lakes
I hope that made sense
Nice lol
For me, my game wants 8 bear, when I get more than 8 bear they almost immediately bounce
Despite having more bear, it just slows everything down due to having to check your exteriors so often
Now
Back to trying to finish this achievement (I'm cooked)
thanks for the tips bro!
Np!!
It is
It does depend on how many bear you have tho
A deer
From my experience, 8 bear in mains works well, 7 is too slow
Lets goooo
So minimum 8
We're going
Yes
I was on 0 ammo on ALL my guns and I just got a max ammoššš
What is max ammo
1000
5000
Pretty sure its cod
cold war prop hunt wit the boys>
Why would I "get a max ammo" on cotw lmao
idk maybe cause weāre in a cotw chat
How often do we actually talk about cotw
pretty often act
Fair enough
I think I did something wrong
I'm on the last step
I have all tesla guns
I did literally everything
But the last step won't activate
Nice nice
Apparently I forgot a step
Never mind
Apparently the game hates me lmao
I'm almost done chat
NO WAY
RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
3RD DUPE IN A ROW BUT WE DON'T CARE RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
rah
@mossy grotto @fallow finch #5 took 157 kills with 4 dimes and 1 rare
You seem to have luck on chestnuts
Congrats dude
Congrats!!!
Biggest one score wise I assume?
yup the others where in the 26s
That might be the other reason why your diamonds weren't popping lol
yeah weird this is now my 3rd chestnut
i still donāt even have 1 chestnut after 13 bears
could be a option or that I now kept rotating instead of checking exteriors all the time
Could be
I FINISHED THE MISSION
(I swear If it doesn't complete I'm gonna eat my PlayStation)
3 Chestnuts in a row is unluckily lucky
It completed
its atleast way better then 3 glacier 2 in a row
It is indeed
Did I really finish that mission just for the guy I saved to jump into a pit and turn on a trap that lights up that pit on fire
Like 3 irl hours
For that
š
You're actually joking rightššš
@fallow finch what should I grind next, another bear or another red?
Bear
Bear
Bear
Bear
Wrong reply
Whoops
You still get the idea
Fox
fox I'll never do, can't even grind them for 15 min or I get burnt out lol
š
Lol
I think I'm done with cod zombies for a while
Took long enoughš
time for behrs
hey @fallow finch
i have 4 lvl 9s, 3 max weight est lvl 7s and 2 more bear to get big
Hi
should i kill those sevens and try to get them to atleast mythicals?
i think i want to shoot them
to get them bigger
also i already let 4 bears to bounce out
because they spawned as 2,3 and two lvl 4s
i dont want em to bounce so i dont mind grinding less behrs
i mean they will still prolly bounce from time to time but i dont want to have a bouncer every run
Yea that's normal
So
I just fought a random recorder that was given to me in primary school
This is very random
wdym
I haven't seen WW2 in a while
It's my favourite cod ngl
I finally completed the hardcore easter egg
Solo
Too many steps but anything for that platinum trophy lol
Another 3
Uhhhh
6
Double it
Now I shall ask the question
I have 10 Bear
Got 4 this month
How many do I get before the new map?
Hmmmmm 80 seems good š
Too little
Just get one every 2 kills youāll be fine
Minimum 547
True
i know what a recorder is, but how can you fight it
typo?
Gotta love autocorrect (my autocorrect is off)
800 kills in behrs raaahhhhh
shot those sevens
already spawned two 8s
was a good decision
in the new map i wanna see new great ones like maybe 1-3 new great one species
or the new map be good for great one grinds
cuz normal some maps have 1-2
so i thought new map maybe they might let us have three
i think they just mean GO species on the map
well he said three new ones
maybe beaver go
i think weāll only get one
and itāll probably be wolf or mule deer
caribou would have a good chance though
would like the caribou but not a musk ox
I won't be surprised if it's either
Wonder were itās gonna be set
tahr only went well because of how tents were when sundar released
once the tents got changed tahr GOs being posted pretty much completely disappeared
seems like most are thinking canada
ye or iceland
thereās no beavers in iceland as far as i know
oh ye
ā¦
feel like why would you set in canada tho you got yukon, Yukon is near canada and practically has the same Animals
because yukon is alaska
they could set a canada map pretty much anywhere in canada since there is no canada map
the only other place i could think of is potentially norway
wut is it
Levi got a Chestnut
o
Not me if that's what you thought
Glashur
grate waun
It's the correct spelling of it
I would've gotten a Glashur 1 if I didn't stop grinding today
y u stop grind
I moved on to the cod WWII hardcore easter egg grind
šš¾
šš¾
grate von as king von
I've heard the name and that's it
60 kills into bear #6 with 2 dime so far
wut furs do u have
š¤Ø
1 cream 1 glacier 2 and 3 chestnut
glashur too is š
I ment glacier 1 srry!
the punisher behrrr
Best bear
space behr bettuhhh
Sapphire Behr best Behr
gray behrš
green mohawk
I used to have a mohawk
get out
how you go from dis golden bronze color to da pee yellow on da phes
gemstone
my sister went to puerto rico and went on a gemstone quest in a cave and found some
guided obv
the pheas looks way of of actual citrine
wym
like it does or doesnāt
yeah
it would be cool if someone like hunter call of the wild or another hunting game makes ice age hunting game so like irish elk sabertooth like that
i will play it when itās james out
James outš£ļø
mustard bird
Feral Goat (Diamond Level 5/Max Levels) :
EC : 4/11 (+ 1 diamond level 4)
TE : 11/36 (+ 4 diamonds level 4)
based off of this i dare say kangaroo are worse trolls
at least for me
i've shot over 10 lvl 9s and none have made dime including a super troll
hmmmmm
Max Level #16 (4/16)
EC : 2/7
TE : 2/9
(these were the stats when i was at 16 max levels)
But yeah, roos are worse
Im at 1/4 for them
I went 1/11 for Roos
Or 1/10
I think 11
Super troll includedš
Was your super troll a melanistic by chance?
I never had a super troll
I hope this isn't foreshadowing
I hope not
Super rare roo would is one of my dream (non g1) trophies
So ofc I had to get a trollš
Hoping for you
pls give me 3 diamonds (unrealistic wishes)
(VERY unrealistic)
I'm hoping for g1 Bear n.11
Actually
Actually I will do that
I had a thought
But no
ā
monkey
GO wolf
kayak
canoe
pole
Gyatt
might end up a mw ms
grate waun
why wasnāt there a fabled amethyst pheasant
purple bird
fr
š«
ofc iām saying that while holding amethyst in my hands rn
but it woulda whooped the garnet
do it
i have four lvl 9s and two lvl 8s
should be a great oneš
do you have any go behr
no sadly
š
810 in my first one
5 glashur tooās incoming
all you need is just for those last shooters to be 7ās
223.12
big boy
224.87
221.49
awww
hooray
what is the biggest one youve seen
Smol max weight
personally my biggest is 222.75
224.94
224.99
Possibly max score... Not certain
ur mom
If only it was a mixed
This is not a great one ??
why did mod change ur name
So what ?
This channel is called great one
we all like to see it here
so what
90% of debates arent bout g1s
Exactly
Huh
Now I am confused
ye well its called g1s but g1s grinders talk here bout anything
Why is there separate chat called trophies and one called great ones
For obvious reasons
basically only like 15 people are active here all the time to communicate
^
still the same 15 human beings
I donāt understand
Mel, Kwaks, Levi
I donāt understand what you said, I also do not understand why there is different channel name
Indeed
still the same people
I read channel name as sharing great one photos
the trophies channel is for posting your trophies, like rares, dimes g1s or even normal animals
What is this channel for
