#ABSIS PCB Group Buy (register your interest!)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

spark mica
#

Hi folks.

Thinking about doing a group buy for a lot of the power and data PCBs for the build. Just wanting to gauge interest here for the following parts:

ABSIS ALE + Relay (ulukaii mod)
ABSIS Bus Master
ABSIS Mega
ABSIS Backlight controller
ABSIS PSU Breakout
ABSIS Pit Management
Left Console Sim Power Panel

Gnomi has a few spare sim power panels in the US if the majority don't want to order them. Just note that we'll each need about 21 ALE's for the entire build so that PCB will be super cheap given the volume just a few people would create. Same goes for bus masters, you'll need 4 for the entire build.

Would be looking to deliver to the UK, then send to everyone from there. US import duties makes sending it across the pond rather difficult so plans can change depending on interest.

Thanks.

#

Can obviously get a quote for the actual PCB costs if there's at least 2 or 3 people keen for it. We know it'll be at least $10 for each PCB with a minum order of 5, plus a fifth of the $8 to bake and a fifth of the about $30-40 to ship it, and whatever it costs to send it on to you from there

#

Would probably also just do SMD components and no through hole components

rich turtle
#

Definitely interested in the top three PCBs but I am in the US and wondering about the shipping costs being cost prohibitive.

wind idol
#

Based on Chip issues we are all having i would 100% not have the RS485 chip placed on the ALE unless you can specify the working chip being discussed in the electrical group! The current ones used by JCLPCB have over a 40% failure rate!

brisk wren
# rich turtle Definitely interested in the top three PCBs but I am in the US and wondering ab...

I can reply to that, as I did the math for another group buy. The biggest problem is the double import taxation potential. I don't know if it's possible to avoid it in UK, it's not the same rules that the rest of Europe nowadays, but while reshipping to the US should not lead to import fees in Europe, in reality it's way more complicated to avoid them when importing as individual as we do in these group orders. Then, when shipped to US, they ask for country of origin of the good, and even if you have paid the import tax from Europe the good itself is from China...

My rough estimates says that the US part of the group order something like 60-100% more expensive. The overall agreement at the moment is that mixing shipping between US and EU is a bad idea.

elder bridge
#

I would say you are correct, but the buy I did, RC, just the other day was still only like $160 each for the entire RC and a couple extra boards. I would pay that all day long compared to trying to do it in a group of 5 or by yourself.

#

that being said, I have had issues shipping from the US to some internationals. Poland is one, poor @wheat stratus is still trying to get his stuff out of customs, while the Aussie folks were realitively easy, and one took a little longer in Norway. I don't know exactly what they had to do on their end, but I wasn't charged anything extra to ship to them other than the extra you would expect to ship overseas.

elder bridge
#

the rest of the components seem fine, that one has been a real problem from them

#

sorry, so didn't mean to hijack the thread

rich turtle
#

Yessir, I agree with @elder bridge that chip has got me pretty gun shy right now. Probably a very good idea to No Pop that one. Was planning on keeping more than a few on hand like those that Ulukai sourced but dont see many of them from US sources. I still have a handfull of untested ALE pcbs here and I will try to use those instead for now. Thanks to @spark mica for working it for the EU Crowd.

spark mica
#

We can still use this thread to figure out overall engagement

#

And breakout into NA/EU depending on the numbers

#

There will be more NA than EU that's for sure

spark mica
elder bridge
#

I'm using these from mouser

sage viper
#

If you guys are interested I can ask my elec engineer to redo the Absis Bus Master design with the same TexasInstruments chip line the Absis Ale + (see #oh-electrical for the discussion) .

Price is probably between 50 to 100 bucks for the redesign

haughty knot
#

Interested in this buy. US, TX.

elfin reef
#

If its working, we will start implementing it in the baseline. Put in an issue @sage viper and ill try to have it integrated this week across the system.

nova parrot
#

Im on for
5x ABSIS ALE
1 x ABSIS Pit Management

Norway 🇳🇴

spark mica
#

Will update as we go. Apologies for the ping

wide wind
#

I’m interested. US.

copper pasture
#

Interested US

fervent vault
#

Im interested in full set except sim control panel. USA.
Not super sold on ALEs at the moment, but interested for now. @sage viper 's latest post in #oh-electrical looks promising 👀

spark mica
#

I just got a warning for updating the list of people

#

And now it's gone

#

Ffs

#

Interest Registry:
🇬🇧 @spark mica all
🇳🇴 Baron Von Awesome ale+, pit management
🇫🇮 @wise bluff all
🇸🇪 @brisk wren spare ale+
🇦🇹 @uncut relic ale+, bus master, mega
🇦🇺 me116. all
🇦🇺 @bleak sandal all

🇺🇸 PWilliamsSA all
🇺🇸 Swaney409 all
🇺🇸 PrivatePirate ale+, bus master
🇺🇸 T.R. "Disco" Gearing all but control panel
🇺🇸 Wargle T Eagle all
🇺🇸 Aardvark all
🇺🇸 @wind idol ale+, bus master
🇺🇸 @rich turtle ale+, bus master, mega
🇺🇸 @thorn zinc all, bus master
🇺🇸 @elder bridge ale+, bus master, mega
🇺🇸 @ashen wave all
🇺🇸 @halcyon parcel ale+, bus master

elfin reef
#

Should be fixed.

copper pasture
#

Update me for 5x bus master and 25x ALE only pls @spark mica

spark mica
spark mica
elfin reef
spark mica
#

😄

#

What I'll do is I'll add the quantities when we finalise numbers and regions

#

I'm thinking if we can get 5 from the US and 5 from EU then we can split into 2 because it will probably be cheaper than sending them across the pond, but we can see what happens. It might just end up being a US group buy and a few outsiders it needs sent to

turbid nest
#

Interested in all please. Australia

tame wyvern
#

All please

spark mica
#

@elfin reef need that exception for emoji spam too 😂

wind idol
#

Depending on cost I would be interested in the ALEs and Bus Masters. 🇺🇸

uncut relic
#

I'm interested in
ALEs +Relays
and Bus Master.
Austria 🇦🇹

light plover
#

Interested in all as well 🇺🇸

spark mica
#

So that's us with 7 from the US and 4 from non-US countries

#

That's actually pretty good going for a group buy. Perhaps we should discuss logistically how this could be done as the price will be dictated primarily by the location to send these items to

#

The 5 from the US want everything, which will make a simple 5 man US order for all the parts super easy, plus the ale+relay and bus master can easily be added on for the other two as you'll need 21 and 4 of them respectively for the entire build

#

So on the US side of things, you can easily have that sorted by yourselfs if you wanted to

elder bridge
#

Is this an Ulukaii updated Bus Master?

spark mica
#

As for us 4 left over, that makes things more difficult. Given baron and Maddoxx are only interested in the ale+relays and one or two other parts, perhaps we have to either leach off a US order groupbuy for half the parts and perhaps run an EU order for the common parts we all want

spark mica
elder bridge
#

3 of them

#

Each

spark mica
#

Then I'd assume so, providing everyone is happy with it

#

But what I'm thinking is perhaps doing 2 group buys here, but us non-US folk perhaps joining yours but for as little as possible

#

Because the import duties will be pretty extortionate

#

Preferably I'd like to have a few more folk from outside the US onboard with the group buy and that will allow us to probably manage a pretty decent price for everyone

#

If it's more expensive to order as two group buys than it is to send the components across the pond then we can just do one big group order and send it to one place for distribution

rich turtle
#

I was on the string earler but must have dropped off.
Where did you land on the max 487 chips. I am still interested if thats all sorted out. Still in texas and wanting a full set ALE+ and bus masters
.

spark mica
#

We will properly go into details when we have a good idea on the quantity. If everyone's wanting a full set of ale+relays then we are literally ordering 250+ which is gonna be so fucking good

thorn zinc
#

Interested in all 🇺🇸

spark mica
#

12 folk on it so far. Good going guys

elder bridge
#

Throw me on there for 25 ALEs

sage viper
# elfin reef If its working, we will start implementing it in the baseline. Put in an issue <...

Hi @elfin reef I have put in the issue for the replacement of the MAX487 chip with the TI chip here: https://github.com/jrsteensen/OpenHornet/issues/1219 . Related issue is @dense frigate investigation on the bias resistor here: https://github.com/jrsteensen/OpenHornet/issues/1199 .

Please advise how you want to proceed. Happy to facilitate redesign via my electrical engineer and it should be possible for him to generate OH-standard KiCAD output files instead of EasyEDA files.

@spark mica FYI

GitHub
[FEATURE REQUEST]: Replace MAX487 with TI THVD1410R chip on ABSIS M...

Discord Username Ulukaii Feature/Enhancement Summary Related to #1199 If a redesign of the Bus Master and the ABSIS Mega is due anyway (#1199), then we can replace the MAX487 chip with the TI chip....

GitHub
[Bug]: ABSIS MASTER Missing Bias Resistor · Issue #1199 · jrsteen...

Discord Username sandrac Bug Summary The MAX487 does not have internal bias resistors so external biasing is needed to ensure that while the buss is inactive the A/B line are pulled to a true inact...

spark mica
#

Thanks ulukaii. I think since we are looking at 12 people interested in the bus master and 8 interested in the mega, it would be great to see what the OH Project itself would be happy integrating into the official designs before we make this group order. Having observed and heard all these problems with the MAX487, regardless of the reason, I think buying a new design would be ideal for everyone here. As for the mega, if it's due a rework anyway it all sounds perfect for us to take advantage of the timing

elfin reef
#

Ulukaii, let's not do dev questions in marketplace threads where its sure to be lost. 😁 moving to #ecad-dev

dense frigate
spark mica
#

Thanks guys, keep us in the loop with what's happening where you can. We can't see the channel you've moved to

rich turtle
#

Anyone know off the top of their head how many Megas you need for the entire pit

#

5 bus master, 25 ale+ and (?) megas. I know i can look it up but computer is all shut down and im on my ipad. Plus Im just being lazy…

elfin reef
#

I want to say three, not counting bus masters, but it might be two.

rich turtle
#

thats what I was guessing. @spark mica if all three of those megas use the same ABSIS pcb, it would be worth adding to the group buy. I’ll try and research that tomorrow unless someone knows already. I cant remember a day since Christmas that i havent looked at the interconnect at least once. They say your mind is the second thing to when you get old…

spark mica
#

The mega is already listed in the group buy. The question is about what design to use as one of the components on it has been causing people who already have the boards some problems

#

So everyone who's put all will be in for 3 megas and 21 to 25 ale+relays unless they have stated otherwise. We will confirm this all when we hear what is going to be done about the bus master and mega PCB design, and then we will get quotes and numbers

#

I'll put you down for mega too if you'd like?

uncut relic
#

I think I'll need the new version of Meag as well. Please add the Megas to my list, too.

spark mica
#

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we will be getting a redesigned ALE+Relay, Mega & Bus master with a new component to replace the MAX487 chip, which is common on all three boards and is causing problems for people with the existing designs. Noctuum and ulukaii are sorting it out as we speak, and we should hopefully have a new design to use soon. Will keep everyone posted

rich turtle
#

I got a start on my "research" this morning. I think I was mistaken. First one I looked at was the Stby Instrument controller and it's a one-of-a-kind shield for the Mega on that module. I had assumed that they would be "Mega ALEs" or similar, but I think their function is not conducive to a common controller. Please disregard my ramblings and add the Megas to my buy as well. Let's go with the 25 ALE+ and 5 bus master, go ahead and add 3 of the Megas as well.

elder bridge
#

let me jump in here on the mega discussion, I think there might be some confusion (or I am confused maybe, lol) I'm pretty sure there is only 1 ABSIS Mega listed in the OH parts list. it is listed a couple times, but only in reference to the Comm panel. this has a MAX487 chip on it. the other megas that may be being discussed are likely the AT Megas that are purchasable through Amazon. @elfin reef please correct me if I am wrong?

elfin reef
elfin reef
elder bridge
#

and I think there are 4 Bus Masters required?

#

if we are getting a new Bus Master (with new chip) you can add for 4 of those also please.

#

actually add me for a new mega also if it is a new design with a new chip.

dense frigate
#

This might be just me, but if we’re doing a new busmaster with the chip change and additional changes, you may want to hold off until it’s been tested

elfin reef
#

Having an EE do the changes for pay, so much higher confidence that it will be right the first time around.

spark mica
#

Thank you so much for this noctum

elfin reef
#

@sage viper is doing the heavy lifting of coordination, I'm just giving requirements and funding. 🙂

#

This is the exact use case (outside of infrastructure costs for the project) that the donations and subscriptions to the project matter.

spark mica
#

Hi guys. For those interested in the redesigned bus master and mega, would you guys like to wait until ulukaii or noctum orders the design and tests them before we place our order, or are you happy to just jump in with the redesign? Please react 👍 if you're ok with just ordering them, or 👎 if you want them tested before we order

elfin reef
#

We probably wont be ordering test articles since its a known good circuit and the work is being done for by a paid EE. Will probably just release it, and thinking about jumping into the group buy myself for my build.

#

We are basically just backporting the circuits to the baseline ALE and Master from the latest tested ALE+

spark mica
#

Oh great ok

#

In the case disregard what I said

spark mica
#

Right folks, I don't know who else is likely to join, but we have 4 from outside the US and 10 (11 if you include noctum) interested in the buy. I will start putting together quantities and quotes for the PCBs

#

If we are going to do this, I'd like to place around the end of the month - if that's a time scale acceptable to everyone

nova parrot
#

Will the 5 ALE work with the old ones I already have, or will I need a full batch of the new ones?

spark mica
#

I'm not entirely understanding the first half of the question, but I believe you will be able to use both old and new ALE's in the same build. @sage viper can you confirm that?

brisk wren
#

There is some rework currently ongoing. I would suggest to wait for that rework to be fully completed before ordering anything

#

I'm not involved so I can't detail more, but someone else will probably jump in 🙂 .

spark mica
#

Do you mean the redesign of the mega and bus master?

#

We are already planning to use the new ALE+ design, which combines the previous ale and relay into one PCB, and changes out the MAX487

#

I think baron is asking if he can use both the original ALE and the ALE+ PCBs in the same build, which I wouldn't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to

#

But given they allegedly aren't properly designed to fit the MAX487 spec, I would say getting a full set of ALE+ would be an idea, but if you already have 5 ALE's working, then I wouldn't be replacing them

brisk wren
#

I mean planning to order by the end of the month.

#

Strongly suggest to not plan anything like that before you actually have a go from the rework team. Then start planning.

#

It's a bit more than just a question of using only the new ALE+. The redesign of the other RS485 PCBs matters in what to order. Don't rush things.

nova parrot
#

To clarify, I was part of a previous ale group buy that ended up buying too few, so I only need 5 ALE boards.

But as @brisk wren has wisely said, it’s best to wait.

@spark mica put me on hold, and if you’re buying before the testing is done I’m going to have to back out of this one.

spark mica
#

If things aren't ready then of course not, but I don't feel anythings being rushed here

#

Plans can always change too

spark mica
#

#1500169084959064254 message

sage viper
#

End of the month will likely be good for the new designs. Also, there should be no problem to mix old and new RS485 chips in your pit, based on my prsctical experience and analysis

spark mica
#

Thank you ulukaii

nova parrot
brisk wren
#

Arg sorry I shouldn't have said anything. My bad.

#

The go came fast 😄

spark mica
#

No no guys it's all ok

#

There's no hurt feelings or problems here

spark mica
#

Thank you for looking out for everyone

sage viper
#

We have received all updated PCBs and are reviewing these over the weekend.

elfin reef
#

There will be some follow on/cleanup work on our end once these are all delivered to me by Ulukaii, so please don't proceed until I give the all clear 🙂

bleak sandal
#

Is it too late to added to the list for ALL please ?

spark mica
#

Not at all

#

Which country do you reside?

#

We will be putting out pricing for the PCBs when we get the all clear from noctum, probably the start of next month

bleak sandal
spark mica
#

Could work. We'll see what prices ended up being for shipping but the intention is to deliver it to the UK

bleak sandal
spark mica
#

I mean whatever works for you, we will have to send to everyone individually anyway, except those in the US. I'm hoping to just send it to gnomi or someone and get them to distribute it from there

#

I'll put you down as Australian for now, but when we finally get to delivery we can arrange it as you see fit

#

Have a bunch of pricing to work out first

bleak sandal
wise bluff
#

Hi! I'm interested in a set of PCBs for a full cockpit build. Location Finland 🇫🇮

spark mica
#

We have 16 people in total right now!

#

That's pretty insane for a group buy guys

#

There's going to be like 400 ALE+'s 😂

bleak sandal
spark mica
#

Just as a heads up, it's not all the PCBs for the entire build

#

It's 7 different PCBs that power the SIM

#

There's 50 odd unique pcbs in total, most being led backlights

#

Check out the left and right console group buys to see what the previous group buys were like

bleak sandal
opaque phoenix
#

As a newbie I assume these are only the PCBs and do not come anything pre-soldered? Is it a massive job to solder everything? Anything really hard to solder in these boards? No surface mount stuff?

#

So If I want to have switches (+real ET magnetic switches) working I need to get these ALE+ boards? No need for the backlight PCBs yet?

spark mica
#

So we will get all the surface mounted components preapplied

#

The rest that go through the board need soldered yourself

#

The price is insane if you want them fully assembled

#

This is what breith has done with another ongoing group buy for a single type of pcb

#

Sandra will probably fill you in on the rest, I see them typing and I'm about to take off so

brisk wren
#

For the record, I've done it for 30 ALE+ as well. It's. Basically X2 per board. But the actual price also depends where you get your through hole components. Jlcpcb is sometimes cheaper than Mouser, sometimes more expensive.

dense frigate
#

PCBs are ordered with smd parts assembled front side only. Back side is not assembled but is 2 connectors, 1 smd resistor and 1 thru hole led

ALE+ is a user mod pcb not a OH pcb

brisk wren
#

It's a bit unfair to compare the price of a THC less board and a fully assembled board without including the price of the components. The biggest difference is the tooling and it's not that expensive.

#

(it's particularly important for the ATX breakout board. Molex connectors are super expensive. Buying them yourself afterwards is still 20€ per board to add to the price. Assembled per jlcpcb or not)

dense frigate
#

When I assemble a ATXPCB for somebody the cost to me for all of the pcb side connectors is just a little over $100 US and that is ordering them from Mouser or Digikey. That’s not including the jellybean parts like header pins, resistors, LEDs.

brisk wren
#

Which could be asked to not be assembled if you really want to save like 5€.

bleak sandal
#

As a newbie I’d prefer as much prebuilt as possible, within the experience of this group.

sage viper
# bleak sandal As a newbie I’d prefer as much prebuilt as possible, within the experience of th...

Hi @bleak sandal the general idea is that we have the SMD components done by JLCPCB or whereever you order the PDBs from, and the through-hole components are soldered by the builders themselves. Even for me as a beginner, this was completely doable and the shop equipment you need is very affordable. I invested 50EUR into a soldering iron with fumes exhaust integrated. It came with solder tin, flux and cleaning sponges. And then 15 EUR into a magnifier glass. Then watch 1-2 tutorials on youtube and THIS ONE PICTURE HERE. You can learn the basics in under one hour and then refine with practice.

For the OH build: the MOLEX connectors are very easy to solder in, same for the Dupont connectors. Some people have difficulties with the XT60 connectors on the power distrubution board. Given the high currents going through that board, that one is probably the one you might want to defer for after some practice or have completely assembled.

tools_Header_Joints.png
spark mica
# bleak sandal As a newbie I’d prefer as much prebuilt as possible, within the experience of th...

Absolutely understandable. Once we get the green light for some new PCB designs just about to be finished, I'll be getting everyone's opinions of what they want. However, it is likely that it'll follow the SMD components only. All the PCBs have to be the same and the majority of people here will be happy to solder the parts of themselves. It's a really good skill to learn and will be required for the build anyway, outwith these PCBs

#

Plus there's a great community on hand you can speak to for advice

#

But also that's why I mentioned breith has a group buy going for a specific type of PCB which has high power and some people have difficulties soldering. That's the thing ulukaii is speaking about at the end

bleak sandal
spark mica
#

Just as a general timeline folks, still waiting for the finalisation of the PCB redesigns. I'm going to be traveling a fair bit for the next few days, and will probably get actual quotes for the PCBs, components and assembly, shipping and import duties on Monday or Tuesday

#

Will at some point confirm PCB order quantities for everyone too before that

elfin reef
#

Modified PCBs are not yet ready for fabrication - since I have to fly down to NM to attend one of my wifes coworkers memorial services, the work will be done sometime next week at the earliest, the next week at the very latest.

spark mica
#

Spot on then

#

Week later it'll be - that works out better for me too

ashen wave
#

Hello! I'd like to get on the list if still possible, for a full "all" set. California, US

spark mica
#

Going to look into the shipping logistics today

brisk wren
#

Some of my ALE+ RS485 bus are not functioning... I might need a few master and updated ALE+. Not sure exactly how many right now, but if there are any spare due to the minimum order brackets...

spark mica
#

what country do you reside in again? one of the nordic states?

brisk wren
#

Sweden, sorry.

spark mica
#

was going to say sweeden or germany but backed out cause id look like a twat if it was neither xD

brisk wren
#

XD

spark mica
spark mica
#

can everyone please thumbs up this message if youre happy with the quantities i have listed under you name. ill start pinging people individually after a little - i dont want to mass ping everyone

89db9wp.png
copper pasture
#

Put me up for 3 megas as well (I want some spares). Please and thank you sir

spark mica
#

thumbs up the original photo if youre happy

kxj5154.png
copper pasture
brisk wren
#

It's so easy to destroy one board by mistake...

copper pasture
brisk wren
#

Yeah... I destroyed two PCBs already...

copper pasture
#

🙃

elfin reef
spark mica
#

the ALE+ is the ALE and relays combined no?

#

the redesign that ulukaii is doing is the ALE+ is the right?

elfin reef
#

He has redesigned the ALE+, however as I bring more shields online for the ALE, it may or may not be compatible. ALE+ is not part of the OpenHornet baseline.

We are implementing the RS485 and power changes to the ALE as part of the ongoing ABSIS Core Refresh.

spark mica
#

so if you want ALE's we'd also need the relays right?

elfin reef
#

You would, yes, I have lots on hand already.

spark mica
#

ill need to confirm if we are group buying the ALE+ or the regular ALE's here

#

what is a shield out of interest?

elfin reef
#

For example, the relay board that goes on the ALE. Going to be adding some digital and analog IO expander shields that will plug onto the ALE as well.

spark mica
#

this is an expansion shield

vj785qp.png
#

and it just allows you to have more I/O?

elfin reef
#

Look at how the ABSIS relay board attaches to the ALE

#

Same concept as above.

spark mica
#

is there any reason the ALE+ isnt baseline OH?

uncut relic
dense frigate
#

For one, why do you need 25 or however, many relay boards when you actually only need seven the point of the ALE is you have a base module and then you have expansion modules ALE+ combine functions into a single module since the relays rely on the same pins is used for I2C communications. Whenever I2Cis activated you’ll be activating the relays as well.

spark mica
#

well i asked here and was told yes #oh-electrical message

brisk wren
#

I counted 30 ALEs+ with the ones used for the relay, when I ordered mine and I think I was short by like 2 (but I don't use them in my pit anyway)

dense frigate
#

I believe there’s 25 ALE’s. I don’t know why there would be more of the + one

spark mica
#

i was under the impression all ALE's needed relays

brisk wren
#

the relays. As the ALEs+ are also a relay, you need to add the relay to the count.

#

but I reallyo don't' remember the exact number of each so don't quote me on them

spark mica
#

if only 7 need relays then i think 7 ALE+'s and 18 ALE's makes more sense, but that will be for the entire group to decide what they want to get

wide wind
#

Just to clarify, I’m in for getting the OH baseline boards, which I understand we are currently holding the purchase until the redesign is complete.

brisk wren
#

but yeah, it's a bit unclear what boards you wanna order here. My initial understanding was that you wanted the ALE+, but then as you're waiting for the redesign, you were actually going towards full specs.

spark mica
#

now that my understanding is incorrect ill likely get everyone to say what they want, and then we can see the quantities for the groupbuy

elfin reef
# spark mica is there any reason the ALE+ isnt baseline OH?

Few reasons: It was designed in EasyEDA, instead of KiCAD, and therefore doesnt meet OH requirements for the baseline since we cant maintain it within the OH requirements. The ALE was designed to be a base module with an absolutely minimal footprint. We only need 7 or 8 ALEs with relay capability, so its just wasted cost/effort for the rest of them.

spark mica
#

i believe when i was discussing this a few months back the ALE+ redesign had the amendments you are currently overseeing to the mega and such

#

but you said that the ALE will drop the MAX487 chip so i do see what youre saying about the quantities for orders as well

elfin reef
#

If we get to the point once the refresh is merged and ready and this specific group buy has become overwhelming, feel free to close it and start fresh.

#

My plan from right now for ECAD work is: ABSIS Core PCB Refresh -> Functional PCB Refresh (Update every RS485 transciever/update every proMicro power circuit for the dervitives of the core boards) -> UFC HW update (its a short list) -> BL redesign (new PCB/micrcontroller and dedicated PSU - longer term effort)

spark mica
#

thank you for your concern. im not overwhelmed by this in any way, i do however see its a lot to do as someone who hasnt even started the project but i am ok with that and this is the best way to learn

#

i also understand theres a lot of loud voice for those who are committed to their own little slice of the project, and its also just filtering that to get to the objective truth behind what is best for my build

#

if the channel history does become a problem then we can restart it to make it more digestible for anyone late to want to sign up

sage viper
#

I think I need to correct some things.

  1. The ALE+ has since been converted to KiCAD as per ask by @elfin reef and I spent my private money on that to enable it to be contributed as a mod, and to support the people in this group by so they can confidently check design eith the tools that they are used to.

  2. Ordering ALE+ is more economical than ordering 25 ALE+ and then 10 relay boards. For the reöay boards you also need the special ultralong DuPont pins IIRC

  3. It is also a lot more safe, as you are eliminating dozens of potentially bad somder joints and sources of failure

  4. No, the relays are not active when I2C is active. There is a relay activate jumper on the board, so where no relay is needed, no relay is active.

dense frigate
#

1 ok

2 I’d love to see the cost breakdown. Adding buck converter, relay hardware etc I’d just love to see that breakdown

3 is there no header on it for add on boards. If so it’s not OH compatible if it does you still have to solder pins

4 ok

sage viper
dense frigate
#

2 but that makes it an incomplete cost analysis

3 ok

spark mica
#

So it's just a cost matter now

#

I'm sure that's something I can do

brisk wren
#

Compare 30 ALE+ vs 21 regular ALE+7 relay. But the estimate would be only fair after the rework of the ALE

spark mica
#

Of course

elfin reef
#

Also future maintainability, to be able to swap the ALE or the shield if there is a problem with one or the other, and not having to effectively swap both.

spark mica
#

That logic would only follow through if the ALE+'s are more expensive than the ALE and relays

#

But we can check what the costs are when we get the gerbers of the redesigned ALE

brisk wren
#

You probably have to consider that it's much more convenient to order 30 ALE+ for a full set than 21+7... But it might be an edge case consideration

spark mica
#

I mean if you have an issue with a relay you have 15 other ALE+'s you can swap with

#

So argument could be made in reverse for that

#

Anyhow this is all ultimately the buyers desicion here as it is a group buy

#

So everyone can decide individually, and we can see what the numbers round out to for group buy cost

#

For example, if it is exclusively Americans who want ALE's and relays, then it will be substantially cheaper for them to actually be sent direct to the US, ect. ect.

#

So let's see how it plays out

#

I'll organise some way of getting people's choices tomorrow

dense frigate
brisk wren
#

Checking the price per PCB is a bit unfair I think. One of the key point, aside from the components, is that you can order more for one pit and thus get a better "discount" due to the higher number of item.

#

And I would actually consider bumping the comparison to the nearest number of PCB that must be ordered to fill a pit. Might make the comparison a bit unfair on the ALE+Relay side, but at the same time that's kind of how people order them, so...

#

As I said earlier, it was really convenient to order just 30 ALE+ and just get a few spares compared to the weird rounding up with the spec' PCBs, giving you way more spares in the end.

sage viper
#

Here is a short comparison that I started. (see blow) I hope to capture the history of all our discussions and it helps to clarify things a bit. Feel free to upload whatever you have to JLCPCB and fill in the blanks - it is late here and I can only continue tomorrow.
I think cost is one of many dimensions.

Here is the latest ALE+ schematic, which the EE unhingedly named ALE Pro.

sage viper
#

I ran the numbers at JLCPCB with Quantity = 25 and relay quantity = 10 and no through hole placement and most economical assembly time. Buying 25 ALE+ is 45 EUR cheaper compared to buying 25 ALE (revised) and then 10 relay boards.

#

Note this assumes that you can source the T220 on the relay at 1,10 EUR with no extra shipping costs.

brisk wren
#

Don't you need a number of ale+ that is the number of ales+the number of relays?

sage viper
#

Comma / decimal point issue. Updated the screenshot. Price diff is significant now. ALE is most expensive, ALE+ most economical.

spark mica
#

45 euros cheaper to buy 25 ALE+'s instead of 25 ALE's and 10 relays

#

with the added benefit of saving 30 mins per board in soldering components that are now SMD and reducing the number of sources of error

spark mica
#

so i did a little cost analysis. on the assumption everyone buys 25x ALE+'s itll cost 70 euros each for the set. if everyone is split 50/50, then the ALE+ price goes up to 75 euros each for a set. for the other half buying the ALE's and relays, itll cost 80 euros for a full set of ALE's and relays, HOWEVER you must remember that the MOSFETs (1 euro on lcsc) and sockets (0.30 each) on the relay need to be sourced separately, all other components are comparable between the ALE+ and ALE, which will increase by around 2.30 per board, so an additional increase of 16 euros

#

the TLDR is that the ALE+ is cheaper by 20 euros total, decreases soldering time and has less points of failure

#

the ALE+ fits in ALL places except at the ECS panel where it is possible but tight, however the ALE and relay ALSO have a similar issue with their molex connectors hitting into the primary rib G

#

as i am running the group buy, i am ok with testing the possibility of adding some ALE's and relays to the group buy. we can see the prices and the location of those interested as it will dictate if its better to run it separately (i.e say everyone is from the US, delivery straight there will be cheaper). because of this whole discussion, i want to RECONFIRM with everyone who has already confirmed their order quantities that they are ok with the ALE+ instead of the ALE and relays. i will create a ping list which i shall update as i get replies shortly

#

NAME / QUANTITY / ALE TYPE
@spark mica / ✅ / ✅
@nova parrot / ✅ / ✅
@wise bluff / ✅ / ✅
@brisk wren / ✅ / ✅
@uncut relic / ✅ / ✅
@cold dock / ✅ / ✅
@turbid nest / ✅ / ✅
@bleak sandal / ✅ / ✅
@haughty knot / ✅ / ❌
@wide wind / ✅ / ❓
@copper pasture / ✅ / ✅
@fervent vault / ✅ / ✅
@tame wyvern / ✅ / ✅
@light plover / ✅ / ✅
@wind idol / ✅ / ✅
@rich turtle / ✅ / ✅
@thorn zinc / ✅ / ✅
@elder bridge / ✅ / ✅
@ashen wave / ✅ / ✅
@halcyon parcel / ✅ / ✅
@elfin reef / ❌ / ✅

fqjvfb4.png
#

i would like everyone to re-confirm again by writing in chat. my apologies

bleak sandal
#

I’m happy to go with your suggestion. Confirming my order as before

wise bluff
#

Looks good

tame wyvern
#

Good here

brisk wren
#

I'm fine with any ale. I don't need the relay, I'll use my working ale+ for that anyway.

wide wind
#

I’m ok with either the newly designed ALE or the ALE+. If it’s decided to go with the newly designed ALE then I do not need the relay boards.

halcyon parcel
#

I would like to add myself to this buy if it is not too late. I'm in the US. Would like to request 25 of the ALE+ boards, and 4 Bus Master boards.

copper pasture
#

Keep me where I was please. Just to confirm we are waiting on execution of this until noctum gives the green light?

spark mica
spark mica
copper pasture
dense frigate
#

Just as an FYI, there’s only seven relays that you need in the entire pit unless you’re doing something additional

ashen wave
#

Confirming!

uncut relic
#

Confirm

light plover
#

Good here as well!

thorn zinc
#

Good here as well! +++

fervent vault
#

Looks good. Thanks!

rich turtle
#

Confirmed. Actually add the pit management pcb as well.

nova parrot
#

Looks good, thanks for doing this

turbid nest
#

confirm

spark mica
elder bridge
#

I think I had 25 ALE+, 4 bus masters and 1 mega? That should be good for me.

spark mica
#

hey guys. just as a heads up, as the order will be sent to the EU first before sending on the additional PCBs to the US, we will have to pay VAT when the package enters customs, which is 17-27% depending where its sent. if we go ahead and have it delivered to the UK as planned, itll be 20%. when it arrives, ill remove all non-US orders and sort out delivery on an individual basis, which you will need to cover the cost of getting it delivered to you. for all US orders, i will likely send all the PCB's to gnomi in texas. the import tarifs and cost to send it to him will need to be split amongst everyone in the US, and then gnomi will distribute to you individually and you guys can cover the cost of getting it delivered to you.

TLDR

  • we all split the cost of sending the order to the UK (including VAT)
  • everyone non-US will pay for the cost to send the PCBs directly to them (from the uk)
  • everyone in the US will split the cost of sending the PCBs to gnomi
  • everyone in the US will pay for the cost to send the PCBs directly to them (from texas)
#

i will get some actual numbers when the PCB gerbers are good to go, and i will find out shipping costs, import tarifs, ect. too :D

wind idol
spark mica
wind idol
haughty knot
#

My quantities are correct.

spark mica
cold dock
#

@spark mica is it too late to join the party? In case not, I’d be in for 25 ALE+, EU (Germany) based

haughty knot
spark mica
#

The ALE+'s are not OH baseline, they are considered a mod

#

There was a lengthy conversation after the first PCB count about them so that why I have done a second

#

I need to know if you're happy with getting these alternative PCB designs for the ALE system, or if you want to stick with the standard release stuff

haughty knot
spark mica
#

Spot on 👍

#

There's just some debate wether it's an improvement or not, so I have left it to everyone to decided individually

haughty knot
#

Lol... That was me thinking out loud...

spark mica
#

Completely fine

haughty knot
#

Thanks for all the wokr putting this buy together!

spark mica
#

It's ok man, this is the easy bit

#

Actually ordering it and not fucking it up is the real challenge

haughty knot
#

🤣