Court lightning mages

[dense elm]

Took quite some time to figure out why incoming damage in Courts feels so insanely spiky.
Lightning mages here, that cast a cone of lightning, can shotgun. While it may be not an issue on normal mages, it becomes a huge issue on elite ones. The cone of elite mages is much bigger, and if you were too close.. Well, rip run. To note, i had about 60-65% reduction from resistance, some reduction from trinkets, and a single elite mage shotgunned a paladin with 3/3 damage to mana conviction upgrades, 3/3 armored knight upgrades for a chance to avoid any damage type, facing mage with a 40 block shield, from full life and mana (about 500 each) to a death screen instantly. Idk if parry works for everything, but i also had about 25-30% parry in this run.
And i'm almost 100% sure it's a shotgun in a single frame, since it doesn't proc Divine protection.
Marking this as "strong severity" since it's a bane for melee, currently any mage, especially elite can finish your run in a few frames.

[keen pagoda]

This is normal and expected

You’re not supposed to face tank them

You can kite with dash by that time you should have multiple dashes

[dense elm]

I don't even know, where it could be normal for a single enemy to deal damage higher than any boss. In a single frame.

[dense elm]

And another confirmation of shotgunning being a bug. Just unlocked sorc, and found the same skill available to this class. "Each enemy can only be hit by one arc".

[harsh jacinth]

not a bug, mobs do damage

[bold pilot]

if that so play HW2 and try beat malager kay and stand upfront her lighting beam attack

[limber merlin]

if a character has that much resistance and still gets one shotted, i don't think its intended

[simple reef]

i mean they do like the same damage as the final boss

considering the "melee" units literally do nothing something is different compared to the enemies it comes along side with

also this is NOT strong severity, it is not game breaking

[sour brook]

it's ticking too frequently, seems to be tied to frame rate

[loud garden]

I have noticed that even with 60% lightning resist and 400hp and full mana absorption skill you still get one shot by these mages while the lightning tower and traps deal significantly less damage.

meanwhile you can stand in the melee guys and the lightning archers and scratch your codpiece

this doesn't seem right, +1

for these dime a dozen mages to reliably oneshot a fully lightning-resist specced player that can face tank all enemies and bosses before this point

[dense elm]

So it's not only mages issue. There are more enemy abilities that have similar issues. Got close enough to lightning tower (swinging with a sword moves character slightly forwards, so i managed to get almost inside tower) and got instantly deleted from the game by taking damage from all beams at once 😄 Damage from a single beam was barely noticeable, there were no enemies nearby, so that's the only explanation possible.

[sterile cloud]

It -feels- like lightning is more busted than the other elements in general to me. Being at over 60% resists with 450+ life on a pally I can literally stand still on the floor previous to these mages and not have any issues. But the mages lightning grazes my toe and I die.

I thought ok my bad for standing on it I should strafe them more, this same floor has a couple of lightning traps, one with a semi random beam zapping from the middle, just being grazed by it insta gibbed me, and in fire\spike\etc traps I can't stand still in them but I can be grazed

The last floor with the orb\wisp mobs, I could hold my own against yellow and blue wisps for a good 8 rooms with no issues whatsoever, purple lightning wisps appear and again instant gibbed.

This was with no curse charges, and equal distribution of elemental resists

[jovial scroll]

Yeah agreed, while its manageable its not great especially considering the player version can't shotgun like the mobs can. The defence above where someone is mentioning a different game to justify normal mobs doing more damage than a boss is goofy af.

[cold osprey]

I've limited my fps to 120 from unlimited and they stopped doing so much damage immediately.

[dense elm]

I had similar thing with boulders. On 120 they one-shotted any of my chars, on 60 it stopped. I'm already playing on 60, but it's still a complete rng while running Courts. Even next floor and Avatar are easier xD On lightning towers i'm almost sure i somehow clipped inside tower and this made me take damage from all beams at once.

[sour brook]

lol, this explains so much

just like the marvel rivals bug, it is tied to fps

[trim sundial]

Wife and I lost a run to these guys last night. Also a pally who face tanked the boss just before this only to be one/two shot in the first hallway of the courts.

[loud garden]

I figured it was frame related.

[shut ferry]

Can confirm that no other enemy in the courts even deserves attention when there's a mage (even a mob one) on the field of battle. Ignore that elite crusher and those elite rogues. They're irrelevant compared to the run ending power of the lightning mages. This seems unintended.

[sour brook]

Has anyone played since the patch today? Did they fix this?

[golden wraith]

Bloody hell. The lightning orbs on the last floor seem to do a bit less damage when reducing FPS too. is lightning damage ticks overall based on FPS? Could that be why it seems a bit overtuned compared to other damage types?

[sour brook]

I think that's exactly it and also explains why not everyone saw it

my FPS cap is 170

[golden wraith]

yeah been running on my 144hz monitor so been pushing fps as high as poss

and have been blown to pieces by those every time

30fps god-runs incoming

[sour brook]

yeah for real

[limber merlin]

not sure if its a different type of attack but the lightning orb trap in the courts killed me like this in less than half a second with 555hp and ~68% res

playing at 120 fps

[golden wraith]

BRRRRT

Could be that we need some kind of timed thing on lightning damage, like a 0.1s invulnerability timer for instances of lightning damage, rather than the mobs being able to deal 18 ticks of 162 damage in half a second

[trim sundial]

Interesting theory on the FPS bit. Think mine is uncapped too. Died another 3 or 4 times today to these guys. Might try putting an FPS cap on and seeing if it helps.

[golden wraith]

Update: Lightning damage in general is just busted to shit, last floor, all orbs are manageable, lightning orbs expel you to the lands beyond with 2 projectiles regardless of resistance

[sour brook]

How are you guys progressing past this part on melee characters? Do you just spam axes on warrior or run through it on pally?

[pliant crow]

So far my paly is hard stuck on the first 15 seconds of that floor. This has been a grave issue for me. It's a little disappointing to see others on here arguing whether or not this is a bug. That is for the dev to determine.

[hushed vale]

Had to come and check whether others were noticing this. I tried multiple times running a super tanky paladin with a return damage + fire aoe or a divine retribution build. Even if you have very high resistance, mana shield, and the blocking skills, these enemies just instantly delete you, it's very strange. Divine Retribution doesn't seem to proc when it happens either.

There's several paladin specs/paths which revolve around standing in crowds tanking enemies to reflect damage and debuff enemies. These zappy bois are just randomly scattered among hordes and they completely invalidate these sorts of tank builds because you can't properly engage crowds, so you can't use your build in the Courts. One way to sort of deal with it is to pull tiny groups of enemies around corners and smack the mages like 20 times with your hammer, but yikes.

[dense elm]

The first part is pretty much a copy of my initial post 😄 The tankiest possible character at this point of game, instantly deleted by a single enemy, while anything else doesn't even scratch it 🙂

[hushed vale]

I was playing paladin as a side character while one of my friends caught up in levels, and switched back to my wizard after I decided melee just didn't feel that viable in comparison. I'm not really sure how melee characters are supposed to handle the later content given these and || the wisps||, they're doing less damage than my mage while being unsafe and also can't tank. My friend started getting deleted by the lightning boys and was like "oh that's how you were dying"

[dense elm]

I managed a single run through courts and wishps with my warlock. Got beaten by a boss, but that's another story of unlucky run and melee build 😄 But in order to get through courts i had to carefully lure packs away, stun mages constantly with shield, and dps to zero as fast as possible before stun ends. For the wisps i found that it becomes scary when you let them spit projectiles for too long. I noticed, that the longer they spit projectiles, the more deadly it becomes, especially if they manage to cover whole screen or "sync" whole group when they leave simply no room to kite. And yeah, frame limit has some impact definitely, changing frame limit was a noticeable change, but i doubt it's an only issue here. It's either a shotgunning, or registering multiple hits (then it actually could be connected to frame limit issue, less frames = less hits registered, if drawing is somehow tied to logic update).

[deep scarab]

That's exactly how the damage to framerate issue works out yeah, many games have had this problem. I remember when it happened in Destiny 2 😅

The more frames a damage hitbox touches your character in, the more damage you take.

[unique dew]

can confirm that theres some bug hiding somewhere, sometimes they tickle and sometimes they send your 700hp paladin back to town.
I think theres a bug somewhere in between: game FPS, and hitbox registering for this particular enemy spell * the beam count. At strange angles and most importantly character movement, this sparky boi can NUT on you for 10x the usual dmg if not more.

playing on 144FPS btw

[dreamy cradle]

so if it is fps related, is anything ELSE tied to fps? and more specifically, would lowering it reduce your outgoing damage from some ability or another?

[dense elm]

Afaik, none of character skills can register hits multiple times with any fps limit setting

But it's so painful to look at 30 fps, the image is so twitchy (or idk how to say it better)

Yep, playing courts with 30 fps instead of 60 is a huge difference in damage taken from lightning skills. With 30 fps lock it looks more like intended scaling. Harder than previous floor, but without oneshot mess so far.

[unique dew]

30FPS? thank you for your sacrifice

[dense elm]

Just noticed that 30 fps lock also affected damage taken from ghosts. That's another enemy skill that can pierce (fly through character).

[copper storm]

As Warrior, Leap to stun and delete the mages as fast as possible. If you are lucky getting the trinket that silences, or anything else that can do it, that also stops them.

A friend dev told me that using fps as a parameter is not weird, it's actually common, and that is one reason why some games cap your fps. RoR2 had the same problem with mobs doing insane damage due to uncapped or just high fps when they released the new dlc. Now we just need to wait so devs can fix it.

[sour brook]

oh yeah nice! I do love me some warrior

[stable herald]

Not a bug, is a higher diff enemies, use corners and not face tank and overpull. Beaten the game so far with multiple characters (not yet ng+ beaten) but you can really handle them if you just don't be over confident, like with traps. They are the high priority target in an encounter to watchout for. Rest on that floor is decently easy, they are there for balance imo.

[trim sundial]

Melee characters need to be able to fight in melee. This is not reasonably possible if you can go from full health to dead with no chance to react. It is not enjoyable having to play a melee character as a ranged kiter. It is clearly a bug as 99% of the game is not like this. Only this one ememy. And with more feedback suggesting framerate may be a factor, an unintended damage mechanic seems entirely plausible.

[sour brook]

We can safely ignore the "not a bug" posts I think, 600+ hp in one attack is definitely a bug

[golden wraith]

Id rather the rest of the floor be buffed a bit than mages who can 1shot a 700hp huge Res build in less than a second with almost 0 telegraphy

[sour brook]

There's gonna be people saying "get good" all over a post like this but until someone can explain how lightning resistance doesn't even matter, it's not worth engaging with them

[stable herald]

I beat the game on my first run with paladin almost (died to avatar since lack of dps). They are not unfair, just try to adapt to some difficulty. Take sometime to actually try and deal with it.

[stable herald]

what just, learn to play the game. And deal with crowds and enemies accordingly, use corners and stuff. And it is telegraphed ; - ; The lines are drawn before the hit

giving you time to back out

[dense elm]

As soon, as you will explain how different fps cap changes their damage so drastically.

[stable herald]

Like I played all the Hammerwatch games this is decently normal. And personally loved Merc mode in since it made you value how you play. Try to take it a lil slower they can easily be dealt with if you take a lil more time to take note of them. And not dash into them

[dense elm]

And does 70% lightning reduction, 40 shield block, 40% parry, invulnerability proc from pally spec, shitton of health and mana with damage taken to mana considered as "prepared enough"?
Discussion ended here.

[stable herald]

Like traps used to be, you're not supposed to face tank everything

NG+ even punishes this more with more beams and shadow curse hits on a lot of stuff if you're too slow

[stable herald]

shieldblock doesn't work on that type of projectile. Parry is melee only 70% lighting res just covers the lightning dmg part of the attack. Dmg taken to mana reduces your actual endurance and way to deal with them. It's too passive just kite, shield bash or turn undead for paladin and they are dead.

They are not that hard, they are dangerous yes. By far the most dangerous thing you face atm I feel like but you shouldn't stand face against a shotgun. Adapt.

it wasn't designed that way

[stable herald]

because they are instanced multi hit, same way most high hit things work in these games. Was the same in all hammerwatch games. Idk why people are acting like this is new

Aka try to be slightly less hasty in approach and you can def do this, and take note of them to deal with them first or disable them. Like with Paladin ||Justice silence||

[golden wraith]

Facetanking isn't the problem, the range on those cones is like 40 metres, they 1tap everything, you could be walking your dog in the county over and get clipped by one, oh no, 25 mins run gone

When an attack has a 100% kill rate on hit, that's a bug regardless of how difficult you want the game to be

[stable herald]

it's not an insta kill in my experiences so far and I've beaten basicly with only melee builds. This is why for my experience so far it's been different

hence I feel like it's a playstyle countering enemy

[sour brook]

hence it's probably something pc related....

[stable herald]

Hmmm if it is that then def a bug

[golden wraith]

You on console?

[stable herald]

nope

pc 60fps

[golden wraith]

Ah

[sour brook]

170 fps here

[stable herald]

hmmm I always played Hammerwatch games at 60fps

hmmm if it is a frame count issue for dmg instances

[dense elm]

Try maximum fps cap possible and return after 🙂

[stable herald]

then it could be an issue

[golden wraith]

Since setting myself to 60fps hasn't been a 1tap but still feels like there's something inherently wrong with lightning damage ATM, the traps that zap you, the wisp orbs on the last floor, the lightning cones, all feel insanely strong on anything higher than 60fps

[stable herald]

my pc can't do higher then 60 since then frame tearing which I hate. So I'll accept that they probably have a count issue then frame wise for each instance

[golden wraith]

Could be why some people are seeing it and some aren't

Tried a run on 30 too, they do even less damage, but it's unplayable lmao

[stable herald]

mood

[golden wraith]

There needs to be a cap somewhere imo, maybe internal timer for lightning damage that equals out to 60fps rates for all framerates

Time based

Maybe

[stable herald]

Tbh imo the fix would be have it work in a tick

best compare is the statues in the crypt

for the traps

and just have a set tick rate not fps bound

for those types of dmg instances

Okay tested it with a mate with cheat engine they are frame bound. He tried at 120fps me at 60fps dmg vastly different. Which is a common hammerwatch issue that I personally never have issues with since crap screen so max 60 xD

[glass bloom]

fps tied to damage always bad

[stable herald]

yeah a hit cap per player in the beam probably

So you take max 6 instances or something

from that enemies beam

but with multiple like 2 it would be 12 then

and just scale it

and have the elites have a hit count based on the beam count

and treat it that way, the boss of the court does this too with his beam tbh but since not 3 lines not as bad

[golden wraith]

Yeah if you get shotgunned for being a moron you deserve it, but having 19000 instances of 37727 damage from a beam tickling your rectum isn't it

[loud garden]

Jump down to 30fps in courts. Maybe vsyncing on 60-75hz monitors would be fine too.

It's karma for those Monster Hunter barrel enjoyers

[golden wraith]

30fps feels like ass, might be my monitor but having to adjust FPS to survive isn't a reliable solution imo, I've already made it not a complete joke by setting to 60 and even that causes some sync issues with my monitor

[coral hawk]

genuinely hurts my eyes playing on lower than 100fps so ig i just cant do courts unless im playing range or mobility. having no time to react to use a potion or healing sucks ass. i am fine w taking damage for making bad plays but ya on 250 you just die immediately 😭

i got thru courts the first time i went there probably due to playing a mobility heavy ranger build, but getting there on warlock and paladin, i was nuked instantly for trying to play close melee/lifesteal

[dusk oracle]

Yeah why the fuck would you tie damage to fps and then have different framerate settings 🤣

[pliant crow]

Development is difficult, that's why

[dusk oracle]

Then don't release the game until things work properly, or use early access

[main shale]

So I have same issue. Warrior with 50% lightning resist, 30+10+5+10 general damage reduction, and 947hp got one shot.

My pally that I specd full defence that nothing the full run could even bring me to half health got killed in 1 frame, no chance for divine protection to proc.

And I mean 1 frame. I dashed into a group in order to stub the culprit with the blackjack and before I could do anything instant death.

From multiple posts in here there appear to be a number of issues. The fps attached to damage and not a in game limiter is in this case a huge issue. The second is that skill for your own sorcerer class (as someone pointed out)should have it limited to one beam per opponent, which as an enemy sure, they can be more powerful, but these mages are more deadly than anything the last boss or any boss does. For anyone saying it's a skill issue, they are either ignorant or a troll. But between the factors above hopefully there can be a fix, cause most lightning damage is brutal in this game (probably the aforementioned fps problem) but these mages make any melee player lose over half the runs due to this silliness.

[dense elm]

30 fps cap fixes an issue until a proper patch. But you'll pay with your eyes health for this "fix" 😄

[main shale]

I may try 60. Don't think I will be able to do 30

[stable herald]

turns out the game has been default running at 120fps the entire time and it's no problem

[pliant crow]

Yeah because any single bug should prevent a game from releasing 🙄

[dusk oracle]

Have you seen how many bugs are listed in this channel?

[pliant crow]

That doesn't support your argument at all.

[dusk oracle]

Agree to disagree then, I'm not interested in arguing

[pliant crow]

If you're not interested in having different view points then don't reply to me starting it.

[dusk oracle]

I was just putting my viewpoint out there. Tying damage overtime to an independent tick is not rocketscience

[pliant crow]

Do you know why it was made that way? And why it is difficult to do otherwise?

[dusk oracle]

Idk it doesn't seem difficult for other games, do you?

[pliant crow]

Yes, I do. I have programming skills and have made basic games, while my career is in testing software and games.

To summarize, like I did before... Development is difficult. There are all kinds of things tied to FPS in many games that we don't see.

Likely they can find a fix for this. Is it rocket science? No. It is absolutely difficult though and making a statement without having knowledge on the subject is not a good look.

As for how many bugs you see? That's actually not very many I feel. This is a public ticket system so you're seeing a lot of people talk about things you may not normally see.

[dusk oracle]

I mean they literally do it with several other skills in this game, I don't see why this is any different

[pliant crow]

You may not see, and since i'm not in the code I don't see either.

[dusk oracle]

There is at least a broken skill or passive for every class, they were picked up on within a day of release. I don't see why these were not noticed in playtesting. Alas this is not the place to be discussing this, so we should probably stop

[pliant crow]

I'm willing to continue it elsewhere if you wish to tag or DM me. There is a lot of explaining I can probably do for you in regards to how things go in development generally and what may be happening in Crackshell land. They do a great job and deserve our support so I'm out here trying to make sure there aren't missunderstandings that hurt their rep.

[coral hawk]

just got to courts again on wiz so i could play range, and the lightning beams still do insane damage even on 30fps. its bearable, though, cant imagine if id be alive on 250 like i normally play on 💀 but ya theres definitely something up with those lightning beams

[pliant crow]

Thanks for the tip Soren. I'm gonna try that

[coral hawk]

gonna try wiz or 30fps? honestly 30fps isnt AS bad as i thought it would be but if i only have to bear thru 30fps for 1 floor i think ill live

im trying to make my wiz a sword wiz but i had to whip out a staff after arista

[unique dew]

happy for you buddy, heres a medal, now let adults discuss bugs.

[gritty perch]

Playing on 165 fps, they are strong but I've never seen them actually one-hit you from 500+ hp. Would be nice to see a vid of what's actually happening. I thought they were a nice challenge, even if I died from them a couple of times

[hushed vale]

It's not that it isn't possible, obviously if you're patient and do a painfully slow crawl through the areas it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised if a level 1 run without any upgrades is possible too with enough patience. It's not a question of "is it possible" but more of a question "does this make sense given the context of how the rest of everything else behaves" and "does it feel good to play a melee tank class when enemies can just one shot you anyway"

The fun part of playing paladin (for me) is being beefy and getting up in the enemy's face and dealing damage. Fighting these enemies makes me feel like I'm playing a glass cannon build except without the cannon. So I can dance around these boys like a melee rogue with low damage, or I can just switch to mage and throw a fireball down the hallway and be done with it.

[simple reef]

to the people who think the game wants enemies that are designed to be strong and to be played around, what do you think the big guys are?

[trim sundial]

Locked FPS to 60 today. Not a single death to the mages. A few close calls, but the damage was definitely more reasonable allowing time to react and recover. Managed to get through the courts for the first time this way. Needless to say, I'll be keeping FPS capped unless some other root cause is identified.

[simple reef]

cause this court mage is 10x stronger than elites and miniboss enemies

[unique dew]

court mages make me sweat more than avatar

[simple reef]

if this mage was a miniboss, i would agree, playing around a big guy in a room is fine

exactly

[golden wraith]

This is at 30fps with resistances at like +300~ on NG+0, Granted it's not a maxed character, but even with the FPS reduction, the damage these things deal, even from a room away feels absolutely nuts. This isn't the only instance of lightning damage in the game i feel is a little overtuned for the diffciculty level it's on. The Lightning wisps in the last floor do similar, where its like you're fine, fine, fine, fine, fine BRRRT dead instantly.

[simple reef]

also what is that range, that isn't a shotgun anymore

[golden wraith]

sorry, i'm 60 here, my mate is at 30 and suffered a similar fate

I'm getting to be an old man, man. If I had the reaction time needed to dash outta that i wouldn' be sat here playing hammerwatch, i'd be racing Formula 1 or some shit

And if any of you bois can, go apply to be a fighter pilot or smth

[dense elm]

Well, lightning trap managed to onetap my beefy pala in a single frame even at 30fps xD And it had much more beef already than in main post since i leveled almost all characters, got better gear and more resistance upgrades

[unique dew]

so its not FPS, could it be just character moving and thus interacting with far too many hitboxes of those beams ?

[outer flint]

just chiming in to laugh at the "this is normal" sayers

[tranquil elbow]

Early today my buddy running a high parry tank build on his paladin dodged perpendicularly through a single line of a lightning mages attack as it went off. In the 3-4 frames he was in contact with the lightning he took 13 instances of damage, 9 of which were parried.

We heard the stacked 'TUNK' sound of the parry go off, and both counted 9 red parry messages pop-up

The 4 remaining instances did about ~300 damage with him having 217 lightning resistance

[pliant crow]

Oof

[glass bloom]

its like when dogs in elden ring 1 shot you

where for some reason their hitbox apply bleed for every frame they just 1 shot you

[solemn estuary]

doesn't seem to be fps related but something else to it. been playing on the same 60 fps and while the mages did damage to my squishier characters, it's never been one shot territory. meanwhile I was one shot on a 286 lightning res tanky paladin yet the other lightning mobs on the floor did next to no damage

[outer flint]

it does seem like all lightning damage is screwed up. I don't think the trap room with the randomly shooting electro ray is supposed to 1 shot all characters

[pliant crow]

Yeah that happens to me on 3 classes now.

Lightning resist doesn't seem to help

[glass bloom]

Its the lightning beams

Active hitbox

[pliant crow]

Ye I know

Just unfortunate

No class I made can get through there

[quick pasture]

I wonder if the issue is not FPS itself but changes in FPS? The game may do some calculation to determine how many hits to perform per frame, based on FPS. However, if that calculation is snapshotted when the attack starts, a spike in FPS could massively increase damage. For example, say the attack is intended to hit once per second. A lag-spike drops the game to 1 FPS when a lightning mage starts its attack. The game determines the attack should hit once every frame. The game then returns to 30 FPS, but the attack still hits every frame, causing it to deal 30 times more damage than intended.

This could also explain why reducing the FPS-limit fixes the issue for some player, but not for others. If your machine is powerful enough to get a consistent 30 FPS, setting the FPS-limit to 30 would fix the issue. However, if your machine lags and FPS dips below 30, the issue would remain.

[outer flint]

maybe but people wouldn't be so consistently getting destroyed if that were the case, it's in general doing way too much damage for some other reason

[spiral skiff]

Lightning towers aswell even with 60 fps will oneshot you

[glass bloom]

Idk why they dont just treat it like sorc zap spell

Sorc zap spell only hits you once

[outer flint]

the turrets don't, i'm doing some testing now

[outer flint]

it's fine and cool, they just need to fix whatever bug is going on

i imagine them all as emperor palpatines 😄

[glass bloom]

Im still traumatized by bleed dogs

[outer flint]

god its so fuckin annoying to test this lightnign damage, they constantly summon stupid dogs and kill themselves on my thorns lol

i'm prety sure it's not related to framerate

i'm taking about the same number of ticks of damage, of the same amount, from lightning mages at 15 fps and 150 fps

[outer flint]

in this video he runs into 2 lightning mages, on my ridiculous paladin atm they do 11 or 14 damage per "tick" to me, and i have 1000 hp and it's fine, but in this video he's getting ticks of either 25 or 57 (hard to tell) which would melt a 300 hp paladin

(not saying anything is correct, just trying to sift through to figure out what's going on)

[golden wraith]

On ng0, with no shadowcurse, with Markham's and a bunch of resist items, shouldn't be doing that much imo, if I were a bit more buffed up yeah probably would have survived, but feel like it's hit or miss whether you get to this floor and get turned into shreds of anus meat, or go through with no problem

Think I was at around 300 lightning res here

[outer flint]

it's definitely fuckedh youre right

with -61% to incoming lightning and a -5% trinket and -10% blessing i'm getting hit for like 12 per tick , trying to count how many ticks.

blocking and parrying do not apply

i dont think it shotguns

it's sooooooo annoying to get clean captures of this. here's a normal mage and an elite one hitting me for a minute or so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS9KsMgAhkM

nm, it absolutely does shotgun

compare that video, and the start of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO3ECQOoFM4, to :17 here

https://youtu.be/B5ic-7eJiY8?t=53 extreme example

[stable herald]

Tbh at this rate idk even if it's frame related, I played on my laptop at 170fps and it was fine they still do decent dmg but no just gone like the vid. whilst on that same fps seen my friend get reduced to atoms in moments. So idk if it's even frames. So my experience on 60hz screen with game at 120fps and 144hz at 170fps. Is the same. So I have no clue what is truly causing this for some people and not for others

Neither of them have vsync on

[coral hawk]

i've come to realize it genuinely might be a skill issue but also i do believe the beams individually hit you, so if you are point blank on a mage it will nuke you, especially an elite, those guys have like 5-7 beams while the regular guys have 3 beams. im kinda thinking they shouldnt be doing as much damage as they are, but keeping an eye on the mages in a mob pull makes things a lot easier

still kinda shitty for paladins and warlocks tho cuz you kinda need to stay point blank to be effective

[outer flint]

it's certainly doable if you're paying attention, but rather than call it "a skill issue" i'd say that enough skill can overcome the bullshit

like again in the 2nd video my paladin took 500 damage in under a second, with 61% lightning resist plus various other damage reducers

is one wizard supposed to do 750 base damage in 1 second?

i don't see my hp bar move when the last boss does attacks, but non elite wizard can 2 shot me

[coral hawk]

ya i suppose thats a more accurate way of putting it, its possible to work around but it it a little outrageous considering the lack of issues paladins have in all previous floors

[outer flint]

we've played all classes now through to ng+ and this is the only thing that kills any of our characters. the only run we've ever lost besides our first push to lvl 20 was when one of us died to it and the other died rescuing. certainly avoidable being really paranoid

actually the only other thing we've ever died to is the lightning treasure room with the orb in th emiddle that shoots in random directions on the same floor

[coral hawk]

part of me wonders if allowing shields to block lightning would help alleviate the problem but that would make shields so much more powerful than they already are. i definitely think only being able to get hit by 1-2 beams at a time would help. because ya it definitely seems like multiple beams hit at the same time. I think the traps doing a lot of damage is okay, since you want to be actively avoiding those anyways

[outer flint]

the shotgunning can't be simply "all 3 beams hit"

there's gotta be some other bug multiplying the damage

like 3 beams X closeness factor

as you can see in video I can shrug off 1 beam with it doing under 50 total damage

[quick anchor]

Since when should a game's difficulty level be adjusted through your FPS? Clearly this IS a bug, and a very silly one at that.

[outer flint]

Pretty sure it is not tied to your FPS . I ate shit at 15 fps and 150 fps and did not take differing amounts of damage or more ticks

[gentle cobalt]

Died each run to these on my paladin getting obliterated instantly.
Switched to warrior with whirlwind 2H axe and it was no problem at all on the first run underleveled 🤔

[unique dew]

well of course its a skill issue, everything can be a skill issue, you can beat Dark Souls games naked lvl1, the main point here is that court lightning mages blow everything else out of the water in the game, even bosses, with some RNG sprinkled in.
thats the problem

[tranquil elbow]

I noticed there was a small update today with no patch notes attached. I also noticed lightning mages and traps were actually survivable my last 4 runs since the patch, even on a new character pushing from level 1 to 8 getting to courts I was able to survive. Maybe a fix was pushed?

[coral hawk]

that could be it, maybe it was fixed, which prompted me to believe it was less of an issue than it actually was

regardless it is/was a problem

[tranquil elbow]

My level 20 paladin with over 800hp and 300 lightning rez got one-tapped in 0.1 seconds just a little over 24-hours ago.
Today, my level 8 warrior with 413 hp and 73 lightning rez was eating full shotgun blasts to the face only taking 250-350 damage

[outer flint]

hmm, when xactly was the patch? was it before or after the videos I posted above?

[tranquil elbow]

I downloaded it today at 11:55 am(AKST), it wasn't available when I got off around 4 or 5am

[outer flint]

[tranquil elbow]

Maybe verify intengrity of files?

[outer flint]

I was in game during the time you patched, if it came out right then my videos would be pre-patch

[tranquil elbow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/5cnjzf/content_file_locked/ Top comment says close steam and run as admin, then other comments have more in depth stuff if that doesn't work

[outer flint]

Unclear if it actually patched or not, restarting steam made that go away though

I'll do another test now

[outer flint]

and yeah, even if it was a 1 frame 1000000 damage shot, people could still say "skill issue" because yes dad you can avoid going near the mage or kill it before it goes off or dash to the other side

I don't think damage changed today

also contributing to the burst, in practice, is a lot of lightning arrows

[unique dew]

just clean your room, simple as

[golden wraith]

can confirm, still wiped from existence by a single rogue sniff of one of these mage's farts from 14 rooms away

[pliant crow]

Content file happened to me too. Just resume the download

[radiant tulip]

Use stuns then burst them down with melee characters. Pull them around corners and trap the corner as they walk around it

Pull them through corridor traps to kill them

[violet jewel]

I can join the side of these lightnings strangely behaving.
Same here, Paladin with a good amount of HP, resistance and mana shield, i got OS by one non-elite mage.
Luckily was in coop and my mate was rogue, so he could handle them and we use to be far more careful against them. He tried to focus them, i'll keep corners, sneak CC or waiting for that skill to be in downtime (luckily they do not spam it).

My grip is : The danger is spiking like mad against these mobs, with no curve prior. There is no mob that can deal this intensity of damage alone in all the previous map. Should we approach some monster more carefully as melee, it would be nice to have more progressive teaching during the game.

[coral hawk]

played Paladin again today, 120fps, didnt seems to get nuked like i have been previously by the lightning shotgun. i noticed getting hit but i didnt see my health go down all that much. wondering if it was patched or if i was just being too careful 😭 regardless of that it seems much more bearable the more you learn and respect those mages

[gentle cobalt]

maybe it is related to a trinket/item being bugged? the difference seems too big between characters

[dense elm]

Well, i'm noticing one common thing between people complaining about same issue: this happens mostly on paladins. May be i'm wrong and missed someone's message about weird damage taken on another class, but so far even melee warlock didn't have as much issues in courts as pala. May be it's just rng/luck/something else. So is there anybody who had issues on other classes? And if you had issues on pala, were you using conviction upgrade that blocks damage with mana? That's just the first thing that comes in mind about pala, since it affects damage mitigation a lot.

[golden wraith]

I've had it on warrior and warlock too

[dense elm]

Not only it looks like shotgunning, but on 0.25 play speed it looks like you take damage for the whole lightning cone duration instead of taking damage once.

At least if feels so good to revenge my paladin with lightning chaining discharge on sorcerer 😄 Let them taste what it feels to be disintegrated in a single moment.

[hushed vale]

I think it's mostly only mentioned by paladins not because it's a paladin specific bug, but because it's the only class that is honestly actively encouraged to run into swarms of enemies and tank damage from them, because that's actually a decent chunk of how paladin deals damage.

The game tells you to run into swarms of enemies to whack with a melee while your passive skills protect you and deal return damage, period full stop. The fact that this enemy can one shot the tankiest character/build in the game, one whose skills are meant for running into crowds and tanking damage to deal damage, with no warning or buildup in relation to literally any of the content which precedes it, should be evidence enough that there's something wrong here. And this isn't even taking into account how strangely and jankily it behaves.

[wind sigil]

it is not, and you are just outright wrong. Their damage ticks from the lightning increases at high FPS, cap fps and you'll live a ton longer

[autumn patio]

Rage Warrior with percent DR upgrades is tankier than the paladin. I haven’t had this issue at all with that character / build

[oak stag]

I had an item that would pop a potion automatically upon taking deadly damage, that was the only reason I was able to make it past courts

I'll try the FPS cap trick next time

[sour brook]

once you have enough resist and 60 fps, the lightning mages still do 4x the damage of the final boss

[outer flint]

Don’t think so , as I said above I tested this specifically, 15 fps and 150 fps and took the same damage per hit and same number of ticks standing in it

[outer flint]

I mention paladins to use them as an extreme example - sitting there with 1000 hp and huge resist on ng+0 and I can still get burned down to 0 in about a second by a few of them if there’s bad positioning, which is just wild in terms of balance

[outer flint]

Yeah it is definitely a thing that ticks as long as you’re inside, that’s not news, it’s the number and size of the ticks that are concerning and whether there’s more if you’re closer (yes)

Warlock aura was enough to make them be easy even on ng+2 which makes no sense because we have close to 0 resists there

[hidden quartz]

Seemingly this was intentional although I cant outright confirm it, but the devs have heard you and are looking into it to possibly make some changes.

[carmine geode]

oh that would explain a LOT

cus thats like 4 ticks of damage per beam you're touching

😂

[radiant tulip]

Interesting.

[sour brook]

it's good to know we're heard. I'm not gonna read too much into the vagueness because I get it, you don't want to commit anything specific until it's in a patch

[oblique berry]

When some people say the lightning mage's current damage amount is normal and good, that implicitly means they are saying every other monster in the game is underpowered since none of them can keep up in terms of lethality

[carmine geode]

Well the archmages do

[oblique berry]

Which ones are those?

[carmine geode]

the big ones that throw the lightning ball

[oblique berry]

Huh, I have not had that sort of problem with them

[carmine geode]

of course, that one is meant to do a lot of damage

well if you avoid the lightning ball is harmless

if you dont avoid the lightning ball its pretty dangerous

[quick pasture]

Someone did testing with lightning damage on the training dummies and found the one with the most armor took the most damage, <#1330771504140386366 message>. It's possible armor is multiply damage from lightning. That could explain why Paladin, the class with the most armor, seems to have the most issues with lightning mages.

[carmine geode]

that doesnt make much sense

my frost staff has lightning damage but it does the same for both the dummies

[oblique berry]

That one is ok to me since its a big slow projectile instead of a hitscan beam where the only warning is faint sparkles that easily get lost under other effects

[carmine geode]

the dummy doesnt take increased lightning dmg

[sour brook]

I'm not familiar with the training dummy specs but isn't it likely that the robe has resist and the armor has armor?

[carmine geode]

yes

theres a resist-dummy. an armor-dummy and a naked dummy

the armor & naked one takes the same from lightning

so the presence of armor doesnt increase lightning dmg

[oblique berry]

But anyway what I mean with the other monsters thing is that its an understandable direction to take for the game to be hyper-lethal as a whole (though classes like paladin would need a rework in that case), but if that's the direction the game is going then it should be all monsters who are hyper-lethal instead of just one guy

[quick pasture]

You said that was tested with a frost staff that has lightning damage? The code may be different for pure lightning damage, or even for skills with lightning damage, etc.

[carmine geode]

this is with the lightning tome

i have frost pen on my staff so i changed it

just to make sure

[outer flint]

Paladin doesn't have the most issues, other classes melt even more ridiculously quickly... Paladin is just highlighted because it should be the most able to absorb this

[carmine geode]

well that and warlock

[outer flint]

Yeah that's true. The bosses all need to be 1 shotting paladins if a random mage in the courts is expected to be this strong

[carmine geode]

ive had my warlock tank hits better than a paladin

[outer flint]

Maybe the real bug is that armor and resists are applying at 10x the rate they should be, except in the case of lightning

and we're supposed to be getting wiped by the elite archers' multishot

[quick pasture]

This is actually close to the truth. Shortly before release, NG0 had Shadow Curse. It was normal for players to have low or negative armor and resistances. The developers changed it shortly before release due to negative feedback from reviewers given early access, but there was not enough time to rebalance the game around the new state of affairs. So, NG0 is actually much easier than originally intended.

[outer flint]

||Shadow curse is terrible and should be removed completely||

[radiant tulip]

The hyper lethality of lightning mages is because they stack their spells based on player count, from what I've experienced.

The lightning damage itself isn't an issue. Anecdotally, I haven't had a problem clearing on any character in solo. Especially with town upgrades.

[quick pasture]

I have been one-shot for thousands of damage when solo.

[sour brook]

wow, that's a really good save on their part tbh

[oblique berry]

I am glad they made that change.

[outer flint]

yeah my testing above was solo (1000 damage through 70%+ DR in under a second vs 3 mages)

I guess when people say "one shot" they mean "stood in the lightning for its duration" and not immediately killed in the first tick / swing

[sullen knot]

Yea I’ve died while having 5 potions and Phoenix feather and all my potions vanish and I disappear lmao

[dim helm]

I was checking out a lightning trap in the courts area and I stood just a little too close to the room and got an instant gameover when a lightning beam touched me. It was definitely a one tick/frame kill

[outer flint]

oh yeah teh lightning trap is wild, i've only survived being touched by it once, i think i took 600 damage and that was after some item took the brunt of it

[pliant crow]

I have a hard time believing that this was intentional

[dim helm]

From what I've seen in this thread is you take more damage at higher fps, so even if lightning is supposed to be brutal, being affected by fps is definitely a bug

[pliant crow]

That jump from area 4 to 5 is ridiculous

The way Nate put it made a lot of sense. Making an entire class 180 their playstyle in the 5th area is not a good change

[dim helm]

Outside of the lightning, the difficulty increase felt pretty similar to the increase in previous areas, so I definitely agree that it doesn't seem intentional

[glass bloom]

The lightning trap is insanely stupid yeah

If i just want to finish a run seriously i would skip the one where the lightning shoots randomly

[outer flint]

i play co-op so at least one person has a chance to revive the other when that happens, which is about 1/3 of the time lol

[pliant crow]

I play solo and all my characters are hard stuck to lightning. Does resistance even matter?

[dim helm]

I had like 450hp and about 120 lightning resist at the time of my one-shot. And also the paladin orb ability that absorbs damage with mana

Maybe if you could get up to like 400 resist you'd survive? Based on what people were saying about that one trinket that consumes pots when taking lethal hits and going through like 3 potions for one hit

[glass bloom]

It seems dashing righr away is the only way to survive

Staying in the lightning beam for even 0.4 seconds fries you

[outer flint]

i haven't died dashing through the lightning i think

[oblique berry]

Its funny how resist feels like a really underwhelming item affix to me in general since its way too specialized for a single damage type (while you can't really control what is incoming), and then in the one time you would actually want it, it doesn't help anyway

[sour brook]

someone earlier in the thread said even with 600 resist, it wiped them 😦

[outer flint]

There's diminishing returns there so that's probably "only" 75% resist

[dim helm]

450 armor is about 70% reduction I think, not sure if resistance scales the same. 600 might be around 80-85% reduction?

[carmine geode]

its a shared defense armor

200 armor reduces as much physical as 200 fire resist reduces fire damage

[carmine geode]

600 is exactly 75%

450 is ~69.23%

[radiant tulip]

This is the best way to put it.

While I can't say that I've personally had a problem adapting to the lightning sorcs (unless in large lobbies) on melee characters, it's the idea that I have to 180 my entire playstyle for one area (which is smaller, too) is a bad game flow

[loud garden]

false positive. the hooded dummy has resistance to magic, so it takes less magic than the armor and normal dummy.

[golden wraith]

Playing peekaboo with mobs around a corner to survive, only to have them decide "haha, fuck your corner lol" and blast through it every now and again doesn't feel right

[trim sundial]

My wife and I just took our new characters to the courts on our second run and were both simultaneously deleted on the first cast of the first mage encountered. 😅

[carmine geode]

wha, the trialmaster!? you don't belong here!

[golden wraith]

Feels like this lightning mage damage thread is probably related to #1331140174884769903 message

If armor does indeed increase lightning damage taken, explains why all the paladins get absolutely nuked by mages but sometimes other classes who probably wouldn't focus as many armor trinkets don't tend to feel the problem as much

[pliant crow]

Also, lightning as an effect reduces armor and resistance. Getting frame-spammed with lightning would make resistances useless

[carmine geode]

are you sure?

[pliant crow]

I probably should have shared this earlier #hoh2-questions message

The second sentence is conjecture, the first is from Myran

[carmine geode]

gonna share the image of it too

[pliant crow]

Good idea, thanks

[trim sundial]

Is there a possible level-component to the damage? My wife and I were getting erased on our first characters through and it got signficantly less likely as we leveled up. Our new characters aren't much behind in the way of stats/HP because of our guild titles and gear, but we are obviously much lower level compared to the mobs with the new characters.

[pliant crow]

Myran is THE dev BTW, in case you haven't seen the most recent #announcements

[carmine geode]

Oh I see. i still thought it was Myran & Miss.

[pliant crow]

The exact distribution of work is not quite clear.

So you may be right.

[quick pasture]

Posting it here for visibility. We have official word from "the dev" about what's wrong with lighting mages, "That's more that some of courts is pretty overtuned. Smoothing that out a bit.", <#hoh2-questions message>. TLDR. There is no bug. They just do too much damage.

As for why the damage seems inconsistent. My own conjecture is that testing the damage is difficult because lightning reduces resistances. So, standing in lightning for 0.5 seconds may do 4 times as much damage as standing in it for 0.25 seconds, etc. But if the initial damage was, say, 1/100th, we probably wouldn't be here discussing the odd differences in damage.

Also, looking back at one of the old videos of this issue, <#1329554579058065478 message>, I see the character got hit by several lightning arrows while getting zapped by a lightning mage. Those lightning arrows would reduce lightning resistance and increase damage from the mage. So, there was an important factor we were all missing in our tests.

Ironically, after all this, this may actually be a "skill issue". But the issue isn't standing in the lightning cone. The issue is letting yourself get hit by too many lightning arrows and not backing off to let the debuffs dissipate.

That's not to say the mages aren't overtuned though. That's already been admitted by the dev.

[unique dew]

the issue is that one pesky peon kills better than the ultimate gigachadboss of the final finalest level of levels, end of story. Smell or skill issue i dont care, this shit is way out of wack.

[pliant crow]

I believe that is why the dev has decided to "Smoothing that out a bit".

We are being heard

[quick pasture]

Yes, the devs have admitted lightning mages are wack. But in the interest of accuracy, it may be more correct to say, "a lightning mage and a cohort of archers debuffing the player does more damage than the final boss". And even when the lightning mage is nerfed, it will still do more damage the more a player is hit by other instances of lightning. So, we should learn to back off when debuffed with lightning.

[unique dew]

word salad

[quick pasture]

Something should probably be done about visibility of the lightning debuff. It reduces your EHP, but there is no visual indicator of that. Perhaps lightning should show up on your health bar in some way? Like poison does. So, for example, if you have lightning debuffs reducing your EHP by half, half your health bar could have some sort of translucent overlay. Then players would intuitively respond to "health bar low" and back off.

[glass bloom]

Lightning traps are insanely overtuned tho without the lightning arrow debuff

[sour brook]

"*Lightning attack from wizards in Courts now have slightly higher damage but it builds up over time giving you a chance to move away"

from #announcements

[trim barn]

Hopefully it's a full fix and not just partial

(in case it was both a damage tuning AND tick bug)

[sour brook]

yeah gonna have to do a real run to see what it's like

[trim sundial]

Doesn't appear to confirm any changes to reduction in resistance. Is this still in? Does it have a debuff icon? If it's still a thing, it should.

[radiant tulip]

The whole "archer" part of the synopsis so far is irrelevant. You don't need an archer to reduce resistances. You just need to be hit by lightning from any source.

For example, one of the mobs will cast multiple lightning flashes at once that stack as well.

[quick pasture]

I did not mean to imply archers were the only enemies that applied the lightning debuff. I mentioned them because the video-evidence I linked had archers applying the lightning debuff.

And archers are relevant the same way every source of lightning is relevant.

[golden wraith]

devs fw buffing lightning mage dmg

[pliant crow]

But the issue we had with it ticking too fast got nerfed?

[golden wraith]

might have, haven't tested yer

yet

[pliant crow]

It is in the patch notes?

[golden wraith]

Ah, I read the "Builds up over time" as an increase on the warning laser timer, not that the immediate 600 ticks a second had been reduced

that makes sense

[pliant crow]

Glad it was cleared up. I have yet to test the effectiveness but since these changes go through a test team I am confident

[unique dew]

feels much better now, you still can get roasted in rays, but its streamlined and no RNG instadeaths any more. Dunno how its on ng+

[radiant tulip]

Yah, my b. My point was to try to course correct from the narrative running away about archers 😂

[outer flint]

can we please stop saying this, yes everything in the universe that is theoretically avoidable can tautologically be called a "skill issue", nobody is claiming you can't avoid this, the issue is that it or some combination of things blows up any character instantly, and the last boss is a hilarious moron for not bringing low level lightning mages to his fight

[radiant tulip]

The new patch seems to handle it by delaying some of the damage, allowing it to ramp up.

They do more damage, but it's slowed down. Unless I read it wrong.

[outer flint]

that's how I read it too yeah

[pliant crow]

The patch notes do not say it was removed. It was changed, with a lead-up time added.

#1329554579058065478 message

[outer flint]

The context here is that Cupcake is looking at the scripts and has presumably compared the old function to the new one and determined that it was removed

[radiant tulip]

I see

[pliant crow]

Considering the official patch notes don't mention it I'm having a hard time believing that

[outer flint]

ok

[radiant tulip]

If he's looking at the actual code then he is right. We would need dev clarification though.

[pliant crow]

Is this a before or after?

[radiant tulip]

it's from @lament prawn

[lament prawn]

this is before

it's been removed today

[radiant tulip]

Gotcha

[pliant crow]

Can you show me after? My coding skills are amateur so I'm hoping to see what you saw

[pliant crow]

To be clear, "Hard time believing" doesn't mean I'm not going to look at evidence or have my mind changed.

[lament prawn]

commented out

[pliant crow]

Oof yeah, fully commented out

Even my level of skill gets that

Then the patch notes should mention this. Do you want to poke at mike?

[lament prawn]

this is both ways btw, so also a nerf for your lightning damage especially with respect to the now increasing armor on ngs

[pliant crow]

These two changes make feel like lightning will be relatively trivial to how it was before

That makes me feel like this may not be a permanent change

With my justification being that each element has an effect of it's own, but this removes lightning

[lament prawn]

it also guts lightnings affliction gimmick which seems like an overcorrection

[pliant crow]

Maybe that is why it wasn't mentioned

Or... could be an oversight 😆

[lament prawn]

it might come back softer or not once the other things are under control

[pliant crow]

Yeah can only speculate from my position

Appreciate you clarifying with source. That's my favorite

[lament prawn]

easier to just pull this variable out for now and figure out the other things you can change like tick rate, arc count etc

[pliant crow]

As a bandaid yeah, agreed

[lament prawn]

once all that stuff is reasonable you can put it back in

[outer flint]

has anyone tried running into a lightning trap in that orb room in courts now?

[pliant crow]

No but now I want to 🤣

[golden wraith]

I will sacrifice myself for the cause larer

Later

[quick pasture]

I said "skill issue" in quotes to imply the term is being used tongue-in-cheek. I would have liked to test a run through the Court before the nerfs, to see if backing off after taking any instance of lightning damage actually helped. Maybe that strategy would have worked reliably, maybe not.

[shell musk]

I can definitely see this as an issue as I had a 950hp Palladian with high resists 70%. Was a really good run with markhams and I had phoenix feather with 4 potions. Died instantly to the lightning mages, level 23 and not on ng+ used all my potions and couldn’t survive it

Could definitely have been avoided playing safer but thought the feather would protect me from one elite mage

[simple reef]

yea i haven't really died to them since the update but its only been two runs

[shell musk]

This was before update as well

Haven’t played since

Away form my computer for a week

[hushed vale]

It's hit or miss, sometimes you had reaction time and sometimes you just get instantly incinerated in like 0.1 seconds before you really could react. One of the issues is that dodging doesn't seem to have iframes so while you're dodging out you're ALSO getting hit the entire time, so sometimes even if you did react instantly you still just died.

I think the main "skill issue" would be in how there technically is a way to deal with them, by being careful and just really slowly moving through the area, but that's boring and isn't fair to tanks and also doesn't account for people getting to the area and just getting one shot out of nowhere which is also not good.

[golden wraith]

Feels much better lads, well done

[acoustic dirge]

can you reduce their tick rate by playing on 60fps instead of 144?

[golden wraith]

i set myself back to 144 and it's all feeling good now with the damage ramp-up instead of instant 400 ticks

after today's patch

[eternal hamlet]

Based take

[trim sundial]

Yep. Same expetience today post patch. You could certainly still feel their power compared to the other mobs but in a way that wasn't unfair or unreasonable. Enough to still require focus and disables if you have them but not run for your lives and hope you survive kind of strong.

[unique dew]

They still kinda overpower all other content in the game, but its about 30% better now, at least you can reliably gauge their power, before it was kinda RNG.

[golden wraith]

Yeah you still get shat on hard and turned into a pile of singed mush if you don't dodge them, but at least now you get that second or so of ramp up to dash out of the beam, and with the increased damage if you decide to facetank it you get what you deserve. Less insta-death sentences and more "hey if you stand in me without thinking of consequences you're going to see some firsthand"

[pliant crow]

Please refrain from being rude and adding only that to the discussion.

[trim barn]

Has anyone ran in-game tests yet on whether it still is instant? If not I might try later myself with a high-armor paladin

[pliant crow]

There have been a few brave souls who all seem to agree it is less scary now

Also it is confirmed lightning no longer has a debuff

[dim helm]

With the new patch, my paladin so far has had no problems playing fairly aggressively in the courts. I wasn't able to test the radial lightning trap room yet that one-shot me before, but the zig zag lightning hallway was fine. Had roughly 500hp and 300 lightning resist at the time

tested the radial lightning trap, made it through no problem