#What a time to main pred…..

437 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

gusty gull
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I just got one combo’ed by a fey who built soulbinder time warp…… we were the same level 2 items in…….. the ttk is just great right now and I hope they never EVER change it.

One combo kills should be rare in MOBA IMO. Exceptions being assassins and players super ahead.

I built azure core, orb of growth, golems gift, oblivion crown, and overseer and ran around one shotting people on countess yesterday. I think a build like that should’ve never been capable of I combo’ing anybody.

I hate that you don’t even have to build burst items at this point to and you can still burst people down.

Will poke ever be a viable playstyle in pred again?

civic matrix
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"One combo kills should be rare in MOBAs"

You have never played other MOBAs.

gusty gull
dapper tide
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The closest realistic comparison is Deadlock, and even that doesn't have one-shots as commonly as Pred

shrewd shore
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The build you mentioned is also a strong build. You have 2 scaling items which obviously are strong. And countess is a very strong assassin right now so yeah she's going to do a lot of damage

Poke is a viable playstyle, gadget is one of if not the best midlaner in the game right now

But i agree fey ult is insanely strong in the 1v1, she's my least favourite midlane to go against ever

civic matrix
strange raven
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Can I get an invite to deadlock?

prime loom
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You kind of have to pick one or The other when it comes to mobas

dapper tide
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Plus, there's a lot more mobility in Deadlock which makes things not quite as annoying to get away from a bad spot

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We have the one flash/blink and that's it

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And the higher mobility also makes each death less tedious to return to pace

prime loom
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He is the only truth when it comes to mobas you HAVE to be able to punish mispositions and misplays.

How you want it to happen is up to you but you have to be able to punish

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Everytime Omeda tries to change the way punishes happen people bring out their pitchforks and torches and go crazy

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I personally think fast TTK feels the best for Pred. But to each their own. I think right now we are seeing more of an issue where omedas bloated kits don't fit into the game more then anything else

dapper tide
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I don't think there's been any difference in those punishments since public release

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Only how fast things happen

civic matrix
dapper tide
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It's far from just economy

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But the moment-to-moment combat loop is muchmore satisfying

civic matrix
dapper tide
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Me and about 150k daily players

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If not more

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There's no reason to play a MOBA in 3rd person if you just evaporate and still move in a boring way

shrewd shore
shrewd shore
civic matrix
shrewd shore
dapper tide
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Better things have released, people play them

shrewd shore
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After checking, I believe there are only 2 deadlock heroes without a form of hard cc
And they both have a slow with one of them having a wall ability

civic matrix
dapper tide
civic matrix
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We have over 10 to deal with them in Pred.

dapper tide
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ACTIVE items, and not just crests

civic matrix
quaint ridge
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oh really? how many can you have at once on 1 champ in a game?

dapper tide
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... What do you call an active item?

civic matrix
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There are nine items that directly grant you tenacity in Pred.

dapper tide
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That's a passive stat

civic matrix
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Well yea and its pretty useful

dapper tide
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An active item is, you press its button, something happens

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Which is a thing in basically every MOBA, except Pred, where you only have crests, and they're very limited in who can use them

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Plus, only 1 per

civic matrix
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Oh sorry wrong reply.

quaint ridge
civic matrix
dapper tide
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You're quick to compare to other MOBAs but don't know what an active item is...?

shrewd shore
quaint ridge
civic matrix
shrewd shore
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Deadlock uses cc to punish mistakes

quaint ridge
dapper tide
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And you have the option to spend it, or just risk getting CC'd

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In Pred, you just get CC'd, tough luck, wait 60s

shrewd shore
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Whats the point in having a mobility system in a game thats balanced around not letting you move

civic matrix
dapper tide
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Yeah, you have the option in DL too

shrewd shore
dapper tide
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You're not forced into a cleanse/spellshield/whatever

shrewd shore
civic matrix
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If Reihnhart ults me Im fucked.

shrewd shore
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But unless you'd like to stare at your screen for 10 seconds while getting dynamo ulted, mo and krill ulted, abrams ult/charge, you'll buy it

dapper tide
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DL ults are on a longer CD than the active items to counter them

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Dynamo's ult is on a >3m CD, any cleanse item is <60s

shrewd shore
dapper tide
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Which is better than, "I guess I'll die"

quaint ridge
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hahaha

shrewd shore
civic matrix
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CC is the ultimate punishment in any MOBA and every MOBA offers ways to mitigate it the question is do you use them?

quaint ridge
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yes, less agency in game is better. ofc.

dapper tide
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... You two really don't like lube, I guess

shrewd shore
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What an odd thing to say

civic matrix
civic matrix
shrewd shore
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A bit out of nowhere

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Idk how you get there from deadlock has a lot of cc

civic matrix
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These types of discussions must bring out sordid ideas with him.

civic matrix
dapper tide
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It's just clear you'd rather not have the option, and explode, instead of having the option and bE fOrCeD iNtO bUyInG

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I'd rather take a more dynamic game where there's more mechanical mastery, instead of everything being decided at 1 CC landing

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And I'd say that's been a common mentality among people

shrewd shore
civic matrix
shrewd shore
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But im still not sure where the lube thing is coming from either way

civic matrix
shrewd shore
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The mechanical mastery for pred is spacing and avoiding being cc'ed
The mastery in deadlock is niche movement techs and buying particular items

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As well as some timings with stuff like counterspell

dapper tide
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It's not an either-or

shrewd shore
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Pred does has less movement tech though

civic matrix
dapper tide
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Which makes the CC feel especially worse

shrewd shore
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Its a balance between the 2 punishment archetypes

dapper tide
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... The punishment of buying items?

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You two just want a different game from what the OP (and myself) want

shrewd shore
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The same thing we've been talking about this whole time

shrewd shore
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Which is why you enjoy deadlock, I didnt really click with it

dapper tide
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I prefer a game where I have options, not that I prefer heavy CC

shrewd shore
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I like a game with options before the fight, in how I position, how I play, how I plan an escape
You prefer reactive playstyles, being able to deal with it as it comes

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Both are valid

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Which is why its good there's multiple games in the same genre

dapper tide
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I do the planning as well

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But if I wanted to focus it, I'd rather play League

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I enjoyed Pred in times before, now everything is just too bursty

shrewd shore
civic matrix
shrewd shore
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Everyone has mobility, cc and can 1 shot you

dapper tide
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Yeah, and that's the ultimate place where you have to plan engagements

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I can see the map, where I have and don't have vision

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I know what summoner spells my enemy has, what their kit does

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I make my decision based on that

shrewd shore
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Theres no difference with that and pred
Aside from no top down view
And fog walls instead of fog of war

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Just harsher punishments for mistakes in every way

civic matrix
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Everything that was just listed can be done in Pred, the dynamic is different.

dapper tide
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It's different in a way that doesn't match the perspective, to me

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In League, I have a 360 degree FOV around myself, I can see things coming

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And the fog walls are an objectively worse way of doing it IMO

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That makes it non-objective, but subjectively worse, whatever

shrewd shore
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Yeah fogwalls have their own issues
And the 3rd person perspective rather than top down is definitely more favorable to the person initiating a fight

dapper tide
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Which makes Pred play way too passively for my liking

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Because one misstep and I'm evaporated

civic matrix
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Again that is liable to happen in any game.

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I dont get why people act like this game is some massive outlier in the genre.

dapper tide
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The fact it's not an outlier is what makes it feel boring, stale, and whatever, compared to other games

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It's not even an "action MOBA" at this point, and that was the whole draw of a game being in 3rd person like this

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Because the same thing happening in other MOBAs happens here, just with less options because console, or whatever design decision Omeda made over 3 years ago

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The back-and-forth in the early game is fun, kinda

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Everything else, not really

civic matrix
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I simply disagree

dapper tide
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As I said, you and Haz simply want a different Pred to me and OP

crude heart
strange raven
cunning depot
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daily ttk is trash post.

crude heart
shrewd shore
crude heart
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But like the movement tech is literally only one facet of the game. It's not even a make or break thing. Avg movement skill with superior moba sense and knowledge beats movement all day..

The game is a moba with extra stuff not a shooter with moba mechanics despite what most people in here like to say

shrewd shore
# crude heart But like the movement tech is literally only one facet of the game. It's not eve...

Movement is the biggest part of the game
General consensus is, learning movement tech will gain you a fair few ranks, compared to people who haven't learnt it.

The game is definitely more of a shooter than a moba, especially compared to others. Proxying only very recently became a 'thing' in that game, there are only 2 neutral objectives, one of which is a movement based objective which feels like a second thought, it rarely initiates teamfights by itself, its more like the teamfights happen anyway for no reason, without an objective nearby to fight for. And then the objectives are done as a second thought

crude heart
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Low skill wood tier take tbh but okay

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I'm not even great at the game just decent and urn pick ups in my game are with purpose and not just for the lols.. Team fights don't typically break out for the lols either.. Completely ignoring sinners sacrifice particularly the set of doubles as an objective is ignorance..

Movement is good and important, but also learning vent routes and using items or heroes that have movement in their kits provides a good crutch for people who haven't learned all of the tech.

shrewd shore
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also no need for insults, its childish

crude heart
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Did not insult you at all.. didn't mean to offend. I just don't think you understand the game and likely from lack of playing or ignorance.

Sinner's placement should not discount their importance and their ability to generate a team fight all the same as other neutral objectives

Where are neutral objectives in predecessor? The jungle? Okay they are part of the jungle..

stone smelt
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Gold buff and cyan are neutral and gold buff can be ignored mostly.

shrewd shore
# crude heart Did not insult you at all.. didn't mean to offend. I just don't think you unders...

i played for a while, but didnt click with it as much and moved on to other games yeah
objectives being neutral or not isnt about placement. for example in pred, the neutral objectives are fangtooth, big and small prime, the shaper bugs and big shaper. as well as there being an argument for cyan gold and river buffs. shaper bugs are less of a teamfight objective most of the time but they can be. now these objectives are in the jungle, but they are not mirrored on each end of the map, only one exists, and the main objectives give teamwide gold and benefits

civic matrix
crude heart
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No I didn't man. Chill out and stop instigating

civic matrix
crude heart
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If you think that's a personal attack you need to get off the Internet man

civic matrix
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If you havent played a game in a year and dislike the game you need to leave the server.

crude heart
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Okay mom.. you the server police?

strange raven
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I donno why some people here wanna turn pred into deadlock, it plays nothing like a moba but more like Overwatch stadium with turrets

fallen plume
hybrid dew
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Pred had more gameplay identity a year ago

crude heart
strange raven
crude heart
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Did you play just street brawl or regular.. jungle is all over the map.. not one person plays jungle but the camps are taken by everyone or your high prio characters

strange raven
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I played the regular map I’ll give it more try

crude heart
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It's not for everyone for sure. And it is different than pred or league, but more akin to dota.

strange raven
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I found the art amazingly good

crude heart
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Yeah already getting a big cosplay/art community.

dapper tide
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In the beginner/lower ranks both games play like shooters

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Folks have no idea about macro and just want to pewpew

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And I have no idea why it'd be "turning Pred into Deadlock", my point was always one of comparison

hybrid dew
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They’re just bad faith arguments. Don’t engage with them

dapper tide
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Definitely feels like it

mental dawn
# civic matrix Everything that was just listed can be done in Pred, the dynamic is different.

Yeah. The dynamic is the most watered down and lukewarm version of it.
Every mechanic that exists in this game, is one that already exists in another MOBA and isn't even expanded upon.

Just because this game has those options, doesn't mean they're great. Especially when items like the cleanse are basically only used for hard CC, since most negative effects can no longer be cleansed. Pumped full of drongo rad rounds or hit with Mori poison? Get screwed, there's nothing to be done about it.

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The dynamic depth in this game is incredibly shallow.

hybrid dew
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Pred would go from decent to amazing with actual gameplay depth

mental dawn
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It only gets worse when tactical options are slowly getting removed from items.
I could honestly imagine the CC heavy comps would take a hard hit to their viability if Unbroken Will still had its old passive.

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But we no longer have items like those and ADC's are basically given a middle finger on anything that isn't damage - even though mages (a class thats supposed to be just as squishy in most cases), have plenty upon plenty of solid support options to help them counterbuild.

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Mages have some of the best suite of items right now. If your a mage the game has more depth than other categories, but only in terms of build variety.

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Especially since you can dabble in support items (Like Gideon with Truesilver) and still end up mostly fine.

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if they want the game to be so damage centric, damage needs to feel good to both dish out and receive. When I fail, I should feel like it was my fault and not "Oh Rampage hit me with a goated boulder from beyond ward range and I'm now CC-chained until death".

mental dawn
# hybrid dew Pred would go from decent to amazing with actual gameplay depth

If skill shots actually meant something, it would go a long way.

I don't know how they categorize Neon as this precision skill-shot mage sniper, when her abilities have the AoE of a garbage truck. Too many abilities just feel like they move far too fast to effectively juke unless you some sort of quick dash like Kira or TB.

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(or Neon, funnily enough)

hybrid dew
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Lot to unpack here so I’ll keep it short. Pred has gotten significantly dumber in the last year. I am in violent agreement

mental dawn
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Which is sad, because there were several moments where I was like "okay, this is where we're going to start getting the tactical depth. There might be some bumps, but this will broaden out the gameplay".

Not really, in most cases. Like Augments for the most part are pretty one and done. There's usually one augment for everyone that just shines and so you pick that and then your two go-to auxiliart augs. And thats it for Augs.

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Like I still don't really see Seraths picking anything but the stun aug.

hybrid dew
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Steel has a DPS augment and two other augments that make his abilities worse lmao

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Everyone is picking DPS steel. Why does the biggest tank in the game have a DPS augment anyway?

mental dawn
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Which is just, kinda of a lame excuse really.

hybrid dew
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Classic Omeda. Under performing? Give more damage

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Can’t just make the tank tankier

mental dawn
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I don't think characters should be viable in other lanes than what they're stated. If you do good in other lanes, it should purely be upon: your skill as that character, your mechanic skill as a player, your game knowledge and your ability to counter-build/build in general.

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Them giving hand-outs to people so they can "be viable in other lanes' just kinda takes out what makes playing off-picks fun in the first place imo.

hybrid dew
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Again, violent agreement

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I don’t even touch standard or ranked anymore. The game is in such a bad state that it only feels fun to play aram

mental dawn
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I wish I could say the same, but I'm basically a perm standard player. Aram doesn't really appeal to me much tbh.

hybrid dew
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I went from fiending to play whenever I had a spare 45 min to maybe playing a game if a friend is on

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Like I was squeezing games into every spare moment I had for like 2 years straight

mental dawn
hybrid dew
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Oh dude same

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It’s not worth it because the game satisfaction isn’t there

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It doesn’t feel like a good use of time anymore

mental dawn
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Which is sad, because in some regards Ace was a little bit right with his statement in the old feedback archive - he just said it in the worst way possible.

There WAS a reason this game got 1600 hrs out of me - but that doesn't mean the game is without flaw and cannot have something it can improve upon at the same time.

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And many people haven't needed 1600 hrs to come to the same conclusions I have. They have a series of bad matches or a terrible bug hits them, they leave, and they never come back unless we're fortunate.

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That's why the game ping-pongs around the same number of players (at least on PC from what we can see) we've been having.

hybrid dew
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Pred is one of my most played games ever. 900 hours on pc and 600 hours on ps5. Basically right around you. I introduced friends and they all put 400-1000 hours in too. And now no one plays anymore

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Every time they jump back in they’re frustrated with new hero releases, reworks of their mains that make the hero feel worse or janky, and low TTK.

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It’s all just disappointing. Omeda has been so close so many times to having a generational game

mental dawn
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It's actually funny how many times I've been told "Let Omeda cook", when if Omeda would've just let certain things cook (or just not cooked them at all, like world shaper) for a little longer, we'd be in a fantastic spot imo.

hybrid dew
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Shaper and world shift were a fucking waste of time

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The fact that they started new map development 2 months ago says it all

crude heart
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If nostalgia wasnt a factor I doubt pred would be any different than many other hero shooter moba live service games we've seen lately

hybrid dew
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10000%

mental dawn
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And also communicated these changes more with the community.
I'm sorry, but as we're entering the modern day and age of gaming - I think certain standards of gaming need to change.
You shouldn't be a live service game and be as quiet as Omeda is. There's no reason why we shouldn't have a roadmap for upcoming features. There's no reason why the only form of interaction we really have ins mainly from dev streams and the occasional reply on social media to clarify something.

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I understand "most games" don't let you see what is happening internally more and what is going on, but I think that's a standard that needs to change for live service games.

hybrid dew
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They have the paid shills in here to do the communication dw

mental dawn
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The only reason this game has stuck around, has been because of the faithful from Paragon supporting it from the get-go.

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People purchasing founding packs and etc.

hybrid dew
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It’s fine that nostalgia helped this game be successful tbh but Omeda doesn’t want to acknowledge this. Predecessor doesn’t exist without Paragon but they want to pretend like Paragon didn’t exist

mental dawn
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It's actually really sad seeing how far they're trying to distance themselves from it. As if they're ashamed of it - when it's the thing that's brought us all here in the first place.

We're only talking about and playing this game because Paragon existed in the first place. Whether you liked it or not is irrelevant. I thought v42 was such a shit era and honestly reminds me much of the many things I don't like about Pred.

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Too fast, items became far too important, skill became far less relevant to stat-checking, etc etc.

hybrid dew
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Same. I really liked the item structure changes to the color system and prepping ahead of time but hated the map and gameplay changes

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But hey at least we have a copy of leagues item system I guess

mental dawn
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They're just repeating many of the same mistakes, in a completely round-about way imo.
Many of the issues Paragon ran into, Pred is repeating.
Paragon had an identity issue and could barely hold a playerbase because you would leave the game for a year and come back and it was a completely different game with new systems to learn. From Legacy, to Artifact, to V42.

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Same thing this game is doing. Except spreading it out. The 6 item changes, augs, character rework rounds 1 & 2, etc etc.

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These are all things the game should've done while in test phases and still had an excuse to not have its full identity yet.

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We're now how long out from 1.0 and there's still very basic systems we're missing?

hybrid dew
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The systems we have are also fundamentally broken

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Like items and augments

mental dawn
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This is just going to alienate the playerbase and make returning players more hesitant to return each time unless they 100% devote their time to that.
And we're seeing how many people don't like 100% devoting themselves to a game with what's going on with Destiny 2.

mental dawn
# hybrid dew Like items and augments

Augments were slated to be broken even before we got our hands on them. There was no way with Omeda's balance history, that Augments were ever going to be balanced in a meaningful way and items have followed that trend as well.

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All things just become more bloated as time goes on.

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Simple characters are even now becoming complex. When I think we forget why simple heroes exist in the first place.
Nobody sits there and is like "Yeah I'm a Soldier 76 main" loudly and proudly (for the most part), but Soldier 76-like characters are essentials to games like Pred - that bridge a game between Shooter and Strategy game - in order to help draw players in from those genres.

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Sparrow is no longer a very simple character like she used to be. Yeah she's not complex - but there's 500 different passives and stats across her now that are just kinda hard to keep track of. That's not something I imagine a new player would really enjoy.

stone smelt
mental dawn
# stone smelt I disagree on shaper, It’s a niche objective but a welcome one for me.

I think more objective are good as well, especially niche ones, I just think Shaper isn't really it.

Omeda really misses out on opportunities to flex their own techical talent and this was one of them. A completely original shaper instead of a pre-made asset with pre-packaged animations, just isn't really inspiring for how well the team can handle themselves and show off what they can achieve.

hybrid dew
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I don’t think it meaningfully changed gameplay. Just a third obj to chain together. Placement wasn’t well thought out, doesn’t offer map positioning counterplay in the way it should. Made the gameplay on sanctuary an even larger cluster fuck

mental dawn
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Also, a terrible decision for a use of resources when most people are demanding a major map changes and that happened at least a few months before map changes were seriously even ready for us.

hybrid dew
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Should have put it in a side lane or replaced orb mini with it or something or save it for a future larger map

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Felt rushed

mental dawn
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Like they should have let it cook longer and then we should've seen its first iteration with the release of daybreak.

hybrid dew
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Absolutely

mental dawn
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"testing release"

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Since its technically still not out

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I think my issue is:

Many things felt rushed, that should have clearly been left to cook a little bit longer - While some things are taking a bit too long to cook and we probably already should've at least seen a basic iteration of it already.

shrewd shore
mental dawn
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Murdock is simple?

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Lmao huh???

shrewd shore
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shoot, shotgun, movement speed repeat

mental dawn
shrewd shore
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at a low level at least

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its not hard to put a mine on the ground

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very simple to learn with a skill ceiling

mental dawn
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Like don't get me wrong, yes you can do very braindead simple stuff with him, but his kit is not meant to be very simple.

Like you said, simple to learn - high skill ceiling. The reason he has a high skill ceililng is because he is not a new player friendly character.

Back when Doomfist was a DPS, I would also say he was a simple to learn and high skill ceiling character, but by no means would I go around recommending him to newer players with his squirt gun wrist blasters and his absurdely doinked hitbox that will have you "Mr.President"-ing your nearest ally at your every inconvenience.

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Same goes for Murdock. There's too much going on for him, for me to want to comfortably want to recommend to someone who doesn't play shooters and isn't necessarily great with those mechanics and having to manage them.

shrewd shore
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murdock is definitely the most new player friendly adc
its between him and kira imo but dock wins out just because he has waveclear

mental dawn
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Especially with a skill-shot ult.

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Imo, right now there isn't one. We've all elevated them to rather complex characters.

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There isn't a solid ADC I would recommend to anyone getting into the game if they haven't played shooters before.

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I would recommend them to play other roles that rely far less on landing shots.

shrewd shore
mental dawn
hybrid dew
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I don’t think simple is bad. The issue is depth. Chess is simple, you can teach someone how to play in 30min. But it has endless depth.

Omeda seems to think complexity = depth when it doesn’t

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Like counter strike. The tools are all simple and straightforward. You can understand all equipment and guns in a couple of hours. And then play it for the next decade trying to master it

mental dawn
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That was clear to me when I heard from Ace that Terra and Serath were boring heroes to him.

Like Imo, there's plenty of heroes that are boring in games to me - but that doesn't mean they need to be reworked to be something they're not.

It's like how every Pokemon has someone who thinks that Pokemon is their favourite.

hybrid dew
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The reworks for the most part remove depth

shrewd shore
mental dawn
# shrewd shore theres a reason hes the free adc

Who else would it be? Sparrow? Twinblast? Yeah he's not that mechanically complex compared to them, but that doesnt mean that he's simple by any means.

If you really boil how you feel about Murdock down, then I could still say the same about Sparrow. You go in, you land your shots, you cloak, you ult, rinse and repeat.

hybrid dew
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I think Murdock is surface level simple but actually has good depth. Trap use and pushing with shotgun give him very versatile tools that let players express skill and knowledge. The skill gap between a good Murdock and a great Murdock is huge but very nuanced

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Eden however has zero depth

shrewd shore
hybrid dew
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Zero is hyperbole

shrewd shore
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youre arguing a different point to me

mental dawn
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Can you point out where I did?

shrewd shore
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then why are you arguing about it

mental dawn
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BECAUSE W

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YOU ARE

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HUH??

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You made the point in the first place

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I responded, thats like how it works I think?

prime loom
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Murdock and Sparrow are your new player adcs they fit the definition of the role and their main emphasis is positioning. The both teach you the basics of the role

mental dawn
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Sparrow getting split-scalings makes her simpler to learn for newer players how?

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Mechanically that's easy, but learning how to build the hero itself becomes the issue. Which is a problem for newer players who are already trying to nail down basic game senses anyway.

prime loom
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I hate the reworks happening at all it's showing Omeda doesn't know how to design heroes

hybrid dew
stone smelt
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i hate that the reworks dumb down the heroes.

hybrid dew
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Sparrow having invis is textbook powercreep dumb down

mental dawn
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I honestly was worried with the item designs when I first got into the game, but I thought that maybe it'd just be something that'd only be an issue in that one area.

But the same design philosophy with items is the same one they hold with heroes.
Its this dreadful "If everything is OP, then nothing is" sentiment that just makes everything and everyone bloated.

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Like why does Skyplitter have all those stats AND those two passives?

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But meanwhile Unbroken Will has like maybe 3 main stats and ONE passive.

prime loom
mental dawn
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Why does Skylar have a beam that scales with multiple things AND apply on-hits?
Too many "win-more" scenarios for things or for building certain stats.

prime loom
mental dawn
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Like tank metas are awful yeah, but so is what we're currently in as well Imo.

prime loom
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Like some adcs have 75% ratios on basics

mental dawn
prime loom
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So the items have to have higher stats for the adcs to feel impactful

prime loom
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It originally was not part of her design till someone asked

mental dawn
prime loom
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I think ratios need to be high so the hero does the damage not the item

mental dawn
prime loom
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Heroes need to be the emphasis so each feel unique

mental dawn
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Which is fine if they make heroes have all this, but that means items can't have as many passives as they do now. Either heroes need to be a bit simpler or items do, but I think having both just leaves this problematic door open.

prime loom
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The testing environment was awful for a long time I got kicked out of it due to how much I hated the way it was ran and how Omeda was doing things inside of it so I voiced my opinion in a unprofessional manner

prime loom
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Something I have been expressing for years

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Even back when I could say it to the devs directly

mental dawn
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I feel the same way imo.

At this point, with all the feedback they get on certain things - I just have to assume they don't really care what anyone says about what they want to do. Theyre just going to do it and then get feedback on the end result.

prime loom
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Yep

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But certain things being shipped to live in a bad spot can make players leave and it's hard to get those players back after you do that

hybrid dew
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Simple heroes means more differences between them

mental dawn
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Which I think is a frankly terrible way to handle a live-service game. That might be something that could work for a single-player experience or something, but a live-service being handled that way just feels wrong.

hybrid dew
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Simplify the hero kits, add more complexity to the items and reduce the item stat bloat.

This way build complexity and power come from player decision making both in draft and in game with items

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There’s very little player agency currently

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Which is not a good place to be for a moba

mental dawn
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Which is sad, because this is supposed to be a bridge gap between an action-shooter and a MOBA.

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So having little player agency just hurts those things.

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Which is why the CC issue is always so heated and back and forth in this game.

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Because yeah, in other mobas in makes sense - but because of how Pred is and how its trying to set itself apart from other Mobas - you can't afford to be taken out of a fight for 3+ seconds and still feel good about it.

Especially with things like Fear and Mez that also remove camera control from you. These are just like...box standard cardinal sins for games with these types of mechanics. They feel bad and not in the "Oh I made a mistake way", in the "Man this is just unfun" way.

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There's a reason why Mei is considered the devil among OW players.

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Who likes being forced to sit there and do nothing, even if it WAS your fault?

hybrid dew
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Removing control from players isn’t fun. It should be done as a reward for making a good risk reward play.

Neon mesmerize is especially bad

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The entire game is based around making the enemy lose control of their character and killing them before they regain control. That’s a shitty game loop

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But as always core issue is low TTK. Pred isn’t built for low TTK and you feel it

mental dawn
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In games where you're more directly in control of the action, being forcefully removed from that action is going to be a detriment to that gameplay loop. There are plenty of ways to introduce CC or meaningful ways to shut people down - without shutting down their ability to play the game.

I actually think things like their Gravity crest + Sev's new Subjugate is a good example of that. You'll only have your agency removed, if you wrongly use your agency to make a misplay.

#

You can still fight and move your camera, etc etc.

hybrid dew
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Also, why is phase the only
Hero with a blind?

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Blind would’ve made more sense on mourn. Neon shouldn’t have any hard CC at all

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Neon could’ve had a very high cost, maybe long channel ranged silence hack ability

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I’m excited for the next hero to have 3 mesmerizes

mental dawn
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It makes those fights become boring.

shrewd shore
mental dawn
hybrid dew
crude heart
shrewd shore
hybrid dew
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Omeda is either creatively bankrupt or incapable of implementing. And after hearing their ideas for Wukong on the Wukong dev stream, I don’t think it’s a it creativity issue

mental dawn
# shrewd shore its not a fitting feature of a moba and its not implemented well at all

I mean what's fitting or not?
We have space pop stars and living plants in this game. How is a flashbang outside the realm of possibility for this world and not fit in a thematic sense?
If a game like COD (a shooter and only a shooter where sight is basically your everything), has something that can completely cut your sightline and its considered fine - I don't see why a MOBA couldn't balance and figure it out.
The lack of implementation is because they haven't bothered to introduce it to anyone else in order to iron out the feature. But we sure can have our 500th helping of Mez now.

hybrid dew
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Just weird that we’re getting more mesmerizes rather than other under utilized mechanics like blind, silence, ground, knock back

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I get that it’s hard to implement and test new mechanics. But we have other stuff that exists they can use

crude heart
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It's crazy how this game was better 2 years ago with less content and heroes

hybrid dew
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Or even tether like Kwang

mental dawn
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Also I feel likes slows are a perfectly valid form of CC and they're often under-considered.

shrewd shore
mental dawn
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You could easily remove a good 1/3 of the hard stuns in the game for a much harsher slow imo

hybrid dew
shrewd shore
mental dawn
# shrewd shore im not saying it doesnt work thematically or lore wise, im talking gameplay wise...

Ah, I see.
I mean I get what you're saying, but like I said about Cod. Cod is a shooter and if removing vision is viable in that game, then its something we should look at here - in order to reduce the amount of additions to the game that pull you out of the action or leave you with the inability to respond.

Yeah its super annoying to be blinded by a Phase, but at least I can still play the game and try to counterplay.
Its far more fun than getting hit with the Zinx Disc and forced to reevaluate my life decisions and finish my tax returns before I can get back to playing again.

shrewd shore
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i would guess that its because these are kits they made a while ago, and the characters that have been made in the future will have more effects
maybe they just had a mesmerise phase

hybrid dew
# hybrid dew It really is insane. This isn’t even hyperbole like NEW BAD OLD GOOD. The game i...

Like we are the loud ‘minority’ and potentially terminally online, but my group are the people that would just play the game without looking at the other stuff. And all independently think the game is worse now

They don’t know who rgsace is. They don’t know that Kari left. They don’t know about the test servers. They don’t read patch notes

But god damn they hate every one of their mains that were reworked and the low TTK

mental dawn
#

This is trying to bridge a gap between a shooter and a strategy game and Omeda has stated thats something they look for. They actively target the shooter audience.
So I think trying to incorporate features that are familiar to that audience, would only help bring them in and give them things they're familiar with for sticking around.

mental dawn
hybrid dew
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SAME

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They saw Adele and fucking laughed

mental dawn
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But they're dreadfully tired of the game and if it wasn't for me suggesting it, the probably wouldn't even pick the game back up ever again.

hybrid dew
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Yep I’m in the same boat

mental dawn
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They're far happier playing Space Marines 2 or Darktide or like anything else right now. I mean hell, we still have to finish our Nioh 3 playthrough.

hybrid dew
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My friends have all went to arc raiders or WoW depending on their sweat levels

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And to be clear used to play pred every single day for 2 years. Would never miss a day

mental dawn
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I had a few from my group that left back to Apex a while ago, which is funny now considering that someone from Omeda's team left to go be at Respawn iirc.

mental dawn
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Now I can barely be bothered to boot up the game, and even when I do - I'm gritting my teeth.
If it isn't the balance of the game that just makes me miserable, its the fact that the community is just miserable about having to play the game. I swear so many games I load into and people sound like they're having an awful time before we've even had a single death in the match.

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They're already ready to fly off the panhandle. And we can brush that off as "thats just multiplayer games" or "thats just Mobas" in general - but that doesn't make it acceptible. It just gives it a reason.
Being told "Its just how people are", isn't going to make that terrible experience any less terrible at that moment.

shrewd shore
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NA sounds awful, i get the occasional person complaining or wtv on EU but its 1 or 2 every 10 games

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that must suck

mental dawn
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So I don't understand why we haven't solved it. The reason Riot or anything hasn't, isn't because they can't - it's because there isn't a profit margin or incentive to improve it. Especially when they're already as successful as they are.

I'd love to see Omeda break the mold and figure out things even large studios haven't. And it's not like that's not possible. I'm sure it isn't easy (nor cheap by any means), but I do think its something that should be fixed.

mental dawn
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Maybe its just because of how things are in the world right now that NA is the way it is.

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But man, it just...sucks to really be in right now.

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Hell, that isn't even a Pred problem. I have that issue in quite a few games.
Was playing Space Marines 2 the other night as some dude was flaming us for wanting to leave the survival at like wave 10.

Like people are just miserable right now and I really wish that it would come to an end, so maybe there would be some normalcy back in the gaming communities over here.

shrewd shore
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i think the real reason is that EU doesnt have shindindi
and most of the popular content creators are on NA. all the weirdos gravitate towards them for some reason

mental dawn
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Oh yeah, that would definitely contribute. I don't really keep up with the content creation space for Pred, so I'm pretty oblivious to who or whats really popular over that.

dapper tide
mental dawn
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Which is funny, given that we keep returning to pre-made assets.
There's very little Omeda DNA in the game outside of their own original assets, which make up like less than 1/5 of the game and all it's assets.

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You'd think they'd want to inject as much of their own unique DNA into the game as possible and when they can, and try to keep as much that isn't crafted by their own hands out of it.

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Its honestly a shame we still have stock png item art while the game receives plethora of sprays and overhead emotes and other such things.

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Hell, I'd be okay with shitty MS DOS looking item art (as placeholders) that showcase what the items might actually look like.
Will the items end up looking like they are now? If so, I'll probably be rather disappointed, because I feel like many items are lacking in personal flavour that actual makes them stand out.

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I want to see Omeda's vision and I just...don't really see that. At all.
I see a MOBA that's just like every other MOBA. I don't know how it stands out yet, apart from its utilization of a 3D space. Which to be frank, is also not completely original - just done better than the contemporaries who also do the same (Smite).

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What makes Predecessor, Predecessor? What is so unique to it and so game changing to MOBA's, that I can list? The best thing I can think of, is Crests - and I frankly think the system is lacking in depth and has multiple pitfalls that have yet to be addressed after all this time.

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World Change? I mean a few other games kinda technically have those, albeit outside the genre. Nightreign has the Shifting Earth events.

dapper tide
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It's clinging to its origins while trying to act like it's a wholy unique experience

mental dawn
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Which is why is struggles to actually carve out an identity that feels unique to it. Especially as it adapts mechanics from other MOBAs without really feeling to need to season them in any way.

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Like how is our version of LoL's flower system better, when we only have one flower and that flower straight up disappears once world shift happens?

dapper tide
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It's basically just copying ideas

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The few times they made their own originals, they ended up surprisingly buggy (frost shift)

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Frost shift as an idea is the best use of adding the 3D axis

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But the way they've coded the abilities doesn't interact well with it

mental dawn
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Will we see it back? Maybe. Hard to tell. We heard we were going to get brawl back at one point and where are we now with that?

dapper tide
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They'll need to rework heroes massively once more

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Just for the backend

mental dawn
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And give us 4 more v's of Daybreak.

dapper tide
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But also, on the depth discussion that happened while I was gone

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Back on Legacy, Sparrow had the mastery of using the 3D axis to avoid enemies, for the most part

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There was nothing quite as satisfying as being on a platform like a sniper tower, shooting at enemies, while your team peels them off

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In Pred, the only such example where you can do it is rivers, against the bugs

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The other platforms have too high of a drop for you to realistically shoot at people, so it makes the game feel insanely flat

mental dawn
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That should be a strategy you can use in this game. But it feels like they're too afraid of letting rangers have that kind of advantage, since high ground has not been like that since.

dapper tide
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(As a spoiler, Daybreak was supposed to have a number of those platforms, but they're flattened out)

mental dawn
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The best you can get is like, tower platforms.

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Which is just...such a disappointment. Especially now that they're shrinking the new map as well.

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It feels like the exact opposite of what we've been asking for.

hybrid dew
mental dawn
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I really liked some of those elements, just thought that they needed a bit more counterplay and that was it.

lofty shuttle
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I never thought I would unironically use the chud meme but this is what Pred has done to me.

cunning depot
hybrid dew
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Now that grim immediately dies to Kira with 1 level up on him. You’d dash and burst kill him before he rounds the corner

cunning depot
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the worst thing is that people say „wa cant have longer ttk because of XYZ“ which is just nonsense. we had longer ttk for a very long time and it was fun.

prime loom
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Bro is tickling the enemies

hybrid dew
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Goldfish memory

dapper tide
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If the map is larger, and it takes longer to get places, a longer TTK would be more than fine

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But alas

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We're stuck playing jumpspam simulator with a side of "dodge the disintegration beam"

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And that clip is peak, much, much smoother

rancid timber
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I've always been able to combo kill with fey any mid or carry just gets deleted but the same can be said for many characters late game like if fey misses shes basically dead meat

gusty gull
gusty gull
strange raven
prime loom
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The issue with TTK balance is you have to balance it around the assassin class and making sure it's satisfying to play. Kallari realistically has to kill you in one combo (unless she wiffs or is behind) to feel satisfying. So you have balance TTK around that idea

gusty gull
gusty gull
prime loom
civic matrix