State of Corrode in Magic Kits and the Problem with Magnify

[smoky venture]

Below are my proposed changes to Magnify, along with a new item to replace the corrode effect I removed. The goal is to address the current weaknesses in AP Bruiser itemization, shift heroes like Kwang and Aurora away from Tank items, and open up new build paths for other heroes like Shinbi, helping to refresh the stale state of itemization.

The issue with the current corrode mechanic lies in its inconsistency. When we examine physical bruisers, they benefit from both stacking and flat AOE (Area of Effect) corrode effects. In contrast, our only option is an on-hit effect that lasts a mere 4 seconds and lacks reliability. This disparity highlights a significant imbalance in the mechanics available to us compared to those accessible to physical bruisers.

Magnify

+65 Magical Power
+30% Attack Speed
+10 Ability Haste

Arcana - Upon Landing a Basic Attack on a Hero or Casting Abilities:

• Generate stacks of Focus.
• At 100 stacks, empower your next Ability.
• Deal 50 (+10% Magic Power) Additional Magic Damage.

Notes:

• Pre-Six Items: Magnify was generally fine but needed an adjustment to how Focus functions. Stacking on movement or casting abilities to stacking when landing basic attacks on heroes or casting abilities makes the item feel much more fluid while remaining viable for all Mage subtypes.

Aegis

+45 Magical Power
+30 Magical Armor
+250 Max Health

Ward - For each nearby Enemy Hero:

• Gain 3 Magical Armor.

Wither - Nearby Enemy Heroes:

• Have their Magical Armor decreased by 20%.

Notes:

• I’m proposing this item because having Corrode on Magnify felt bloated. There was a need for an Ability Power (AP) Bruiser Corrode item, similar to Citadel. This change should be healthier for the Mage Bruiser subtype compared to the old Corrosion effect on Magnify.

@fervent mortar just want to make sure I'm not breaking any unspoken rules but is this allowed feedback?

[fervent mortar]

youre spamming a lit of item reworks

there was a reason why we deleted them before, try keeep them contained to one thread

[smoky venture]

I only done three so far

And this it for today

[fervent mortar]

youve done a lot before too

[smoky venture]

One moment

[smoky venture]

I'm unable to go beyond 2000 characters so it's hard to contain them within one thread.

[smoky venture]

Back then it was me tossing a hundred ideas the ones I'm making now are focused on issues I feel with current itemization and will try to contain them all within one post for the issues that they are focused on instead of individual posts for each one.

I will also pace myself and I apologize for my impulsiveness

This is why I asked you before continuing as I want to foster a better relationship than the one I left off with.

[dry sigil]

your wording seems a bit messed up. while "casting abilities"

[smoky venture]

I was going to at you Magical

[dry sigil]

means that you would generate stacks during the cast time

i think you mean "upon casting" or "upon damaging enemies with abilities" or sth like that

[dry sigil]

gimme a couple secs to read this alr

[smoky venture]

It's cool bro yeah I knew it felt off need to think how to word that one

Hey Kor nice to see you

[dry sigil]

ig the difference to intimidation is that a typical comp has 3 physical damage 1 magic damage (and one support with healing/cc) or sth like that

[smoky venture]

Sth = Something?

[dry sigil]

and magic armor alr has catalytic and flux

[blazing locust]

I really, really like the idea of Aegis. We need more magic armor items, and having a magic armor citadel equivalent would be fire. Though, I would love this to also be usable on physical heroes. Maybe making it universal by giving it magic armor, health, haste and then adding a passive that grants 12% additional power to whichever is highest

[smoky venture]

Both those items are not power items which is the niche Aegis is filling

Also Corrode and Damage Amp are not the same thing

[dry sigil]

yeah. so ig it would take the slot magnify originally had

[smoky venture]

Which is the point a Bruiser Magic Armor item for AP Bruiser

We lack that currently for AP

You pretty much have to build Tank

[dry sigil]

still my original point was that physical armor would be more useful than magic armor

[smoky venture]

Not really we already have Golem's Gift Magic Armor is much more lacking at the moment and it would stay in theme of being opposites

[dry sigil]

golems? against physical?

[smoky venture]

It's like 70 Physical Armor

[dry sigil]

im correct in that dot removes stacks no

[smoky venture]

Only physically damage

[dry sigil]

yeah physical dot i mean

[smoky venture]

I don't think item damage is registered as physical damage

[dry sigil]

greystone, grux, etc.

[smoky venture]

That would though

[dry sigil]

so which physical matchups can u use golems

terra?

and feng perhaps

[smoky venture]

Golem's needs a rework

[dry sigil]

actually should remember that, always neglegted golems vs feng

but yeah its kinda useless against the two main physical matchups

and that even without taking carries into account

[smoky venture]

Still think Aegis should stick to Magic Armor while Golem's Gift should have a .5s interval between losing stacks

[dry sigil]

idk, i liked magnify and the idea of it stacking with ability cast/damage

especially the latter version

[smoky venture]

Which one

There have been so many versions of Magnify

[dry sigil]

damaging with abilities, obviously

[dry sigil]

no i meant between casting abilities and damaging with them

difference for aurora passive mainly

and morigesh/iggy ig

[smoky venture]

You mean pre six items like the one I currently am asking for?

[dry sigil]

i mean arcanas activation. you wouldnt mean to revert it to not interacting with abilities at 6 items?

cuz that wouldnt make sense rly

[smoky venture]

Current Magnify is On Hit with Corrode Pre Six Items it was additional damage on abilities every 3 basic attacks on heroes

Beta release it was Corrode Magic Power stacks

[dry sigil]

oh i see you mean the state it was in before 6th item slot came out?

[smoky venture]

Yes

[dry sigil]

ah i thought you meant before building 6 items

[smoky venture]

Yeah no I'm talking about the version

I would like to see Pre-Six Magnify but with the Casting stacking effect added to it

Which is what I am asking in this post.

[dry sigil]

though whyd u nerf it so much? youre taking away both 15% scaling and the armor shred. really feels a little weak to me

[smoky venture]

It's additional scaling on abilities so you not remember the 1300 Magic Basic attack Shinbi

[dry sigil]

oh that sounds good. remind those carries of their place

[smoky venture]

Plus you have to understand it has been changed so that you can proc it more often than current Magnify

[dry sigil]

yeah but it already loses the armor shre

which is a ton of damage later on

[smoky venture]

And can now benefit from amplification items like Soulbinder and Wraith Leggings

It says additional damage not bonus

So it is added scaling

[dry sigil]

soulbinder is ability damage my friend

oh wait next ability

i thought youd keep it to a basic attack

[smoky venture]

No

We have enough on hit effects as it is

[dry sigil]

still, soulbinder activates at 1450+ range

nice bruiser item right there

[smoky venture]

And it can stack on casting

[dry sigil]

thats a clone of combustion at that point

[dry sigil]

not magic

[smoky venture]

No combustion is AOE with a 15s timer this is for DoT Mages, AP Marksmen and Burst Mages

[dry sigil]

neither soulbinder nor wraith leggins got anything to do with bruisers

[dry sigil]

yeah combustion is aoe in turn this charges with a couple more things

[smoky venture]

It's not for Bruisers anymore I'm changing it's identity back to pre six

[dry sigil]

ultimately same principle

[dry sigil]

oh i see, rip

[smoky venture]

No mine is an additional scaling it's closer to entropy then Combustion

[dry sigil]

overall bad for bruisers then

[smoky venture]

Not bad because it frees up corrosion for another item

[dry sigil]

especially since there wont be a single decent sustain item for ap bruisers left

[smoky venture]

Orb of Growth exists it's 140 Magic Power

[dry sigil]

xd

rly

orb of growth cmon man

[smoky venture]

It used to be incredibly broken before six items believe it or not

[dry sigil]

well rn it sucks balls

orbs more precisely

[smoky venture]

Yeah I have a post on that in a few days

Also it's not bad

[dry sigil]

well im looking forwar to that then

[smoky venture]

Or at least not as bad as people say it i

The biggest issue with it is that the devs refuse to give it haste

[dry sigil]

hope it also finally has that magic rapture equivalent you keep putting off

[smoky venture]

Or Mana regen

[dry sigil]

previously you argued we got magnify to somewhat fill that

[smoky venture]

Yeah no fuck no Rapture was a mistake of an item

[dry sigil]

now u remove even that

[smoky venture]

What?

[dry sigil]

on the rapture post. when u insiste it should have lifesteal to remove it from ap bruisers pool

[smoky venture]

Show me this

[smoky venture]

I dislike Magnify and would not defend it so I can't believe that

Or it's current interpretation

[dry sigil]

mb was another guy

[smoky venture]

Here is the problem with current corrode on Magnify it's on a timer and it's not consistent it feels like the item was made for 2 heroes only

Look at the options physical heroes have its consistebt and flows smoothly into their playstyle

[smoky venture]

Also on this note most AP Bruisers do AOE damage so the very little Lifesteal it has is really not a lot as it is decreased by 66%.

33% of 8% = 2.64 Omnivamp

If you do 500 damage that is 13.2 health back per target and even if you hit 5 targets thats not a lot in the grand scheme of things

The only hero that benefits from Magnify is Countess and its primarily due to her absurdly high Lifesteal that she can bypass the weakness of lower healing

[dry sigil]

still, physical bruisers all have tons of sustain options. magic bruisers have none.

so imo thats a big issue

[smoky venture]

I'm aware it's one of the things I'm looking at Magnify isn't the solution though.

Plus the other problem is that they are oversaturating them with Lifesteal

Rapture in all honesty should not have existed

[dry sigil]

nah rapture is awesome cuz its pretty neutral

[smoky venture]

It overlaps with Overlord and gives way too much on hit damage

It would have been fine if they made Rapture scale with health and Overlord with phys power but that isn't what they did

[dry sigil]

alr now that is a change i agree with

[smoky venture]

Now we have Bruisers walking around with 5.5% Bonus Health Scaling and 42% Bonus Physical Power scaling

It is so dunb

How did this leave testing

[dry sigil]

colossal cleave doesnt hit the target

btw

so thats not rly it

all overlord does against your target is to provide you more physical power to hit them

which also means they dont rly overlap

also im not sure but does rapture apply on jungle camps?

[smoky venture]

Yes

[dry sigil]

oh well then jungle clear speed is the one thing they both do

[smoky venture]

One moment need to go to practice and confirm that as numbers don't fully add up maybe it is just the health scaling from overlord

[dry sigil]

still the only thing that hits their actual target is rapture and their basic attack (with additional power from overlord)

as long as you dont have sth next to you and they use an aoe onhit skill that is

[smoky venture]

Ayy Pred got 50 new players

[dry sigil]

but yeah "around a target" does not hit the target itself

[smoky venture]

Still though I don't think Rapture should have been allowed to exist

[dry sigil]

which is reasonable.

otherwise youd buil mindrazor on every carry

30% additional basic attack scaling

[smoky venture]

It does amp grims basic attack damage

While the rest of the surrounding targets take Physical

[dry sigil]

i woulnt see how

like yes it gives physical power, but the item effect shouldnt do anything to the thing he hits

[smoky venture]

I think it was a bug on Grim release

Not sure if it still up though may as well check

But yeah Overlord does not give damage directly

Yeah it was pretty nuts remember doing 700 damage as Grim during six items patch

Aww they fixed it

[dry sigil]

truly sad no

[uncut gull]

I feel like this posts isnt really suggesting anything. Its showing number changes for items but no reasons for them.

the title is the problem with magnify but nothing is mentioned about whats you find wrong with it. nor what you find wrong with the state of corrode. just stating kwang and shinbi Aurora in order so they dont build tank?

but their not always building tank they might have felt like that last patch because I mean we were in HP meta and everyone was stacking it because demo lost its passive. stopping the hp issue. now its a bit more tame so you will see more damage being built.

but Im not sure what im upvoting or downvoting because there is no explanations.

"Magnify was generally fine but needed an adjustment to how Focus functions." Whats wrong with how it currently functions what issue to you see with it?

"magnify felt bloated" what about it feels bloated?

[smoky venture]

I was talking about pre six items Magnify just needed an adjustment to how stacking works I only have so many characters to work with in these.

Magnify is bloated it has 4 stat types 2 Passive effects and no real reason for corrode to be there.

Aegis does explain it a bit but I wasn't entirely clear and I apologize for that I'll see about improving wording on that.

The problem with current corrode is a lack of consistency if we look at physical bruiser they have access to stacking and flat AOE corrode while the only option we have is an on hit effect that lasts 4s and isn't consistent.

Had to remove Golem's Gift

Golem's Gift

+70 Magical Power
+35 Physical Armor
+15 Ability Haste
+75% Mana Regeneration

Stone Skin - When out of combat:

• Gain 5 stacks of Stone Skin.
• Gain 5 Physical Armor per stack.

Stoneweaver:

• When damaged by a Basic Attack: Lose 1 stack. 1s CD.
• On casting an Ability: Restore 1 stack. 1s CD.

Notes:
This is unrelated, but Magical made me realize how dumb the Stoneweaver passive is adjusted so that it can't be bypassed by dot damage or attack speed but also made it so you can't just drop all you abilities and regain you armor back

[smoky venture]

The point of these posts for me is to encourage players to talk about the game and also give them more awareness on itemization while giving me a place to speak about my dislikes with current itemization. I'm already seeing this affect the sub-reddit which is preferable to the constant whining it may not achieve much but it allows people to talk about the game in a positive and constructive way instead of the current negativity or toxic positivity that plagues it.

[smoky venture]

@restive wren this is my other one on my feelings for corrode atm

[restive wren]

I see. It looks ok but it takes away from one of two only anti tank armor items for mages. The other was caustica

Why not rework it into something like % magical armor shred stacks. Cast an ability to expend all stacks and slowly regain them. You could even use abilities afterwards to proc a small amount of stacks

[dry sigil]

that would actually be decent

sth like bloodletter perhaps

[smoky venture]

Takes away?

[dry sigil]

kwang would cry though

[smoky venture]

Aegis would be massive for him

A Power Magic Armor item with 20% AOE Corrode.

[dry sigil]

yeah. so maybe aegis for kwang and another item that stacks shred similar to basilisk

[smoky venture]

I want that

[dry sigil]

for shinbi and aurora geared towards dueling

[restive wren]

Oh I just realized what i described is basically tainted scepter but it's still a nice rework. Don't like the idea mages have to get close to proc effect with auto

[smoky venture]

It's not meant for most mages Caustica fits the niche of burst ranged mages

[dry sigil]

ts is antiheal how is it in any way related to armor shredding

[smoky venture]

He is talking about burst effect

[restive wren]

Yeah your reworked item on magnify would leave only one anti magical armor item in game

[smoky venture]

There are 2

Aegis and Caustica if they are changed

[dry sigil]

nah causticas other passive makes it more suitable for dot mages

its just that burst mages dont have anything better

[smoky venture]

Caustica is increased Magical Damage based on Bonus Health

That isn't just Dot Mages

[restive wren]

Oh aegis I didn't see it clearly

[dry sigil]

based on magic armor

bonus health is on cosm

[smoky venture]

It also ignores 35% Armor

[restive wren]

Is aegis useable for bursty mages?

It sounds like a support item

[smoky venture]

It's not it's an AP Bruiser item

[dry sigil]

oh right it was 0.3% more damage

[restive wren]

Can you forward me to that aegis item

[smoky venture]

Reason why there is a magic armor Sweet Spot of 150

[restive wren]

Having hard time looking for it

[smoky venture]

Aegis

+45 Magical Power
+30 Magical Armor
+250 Max Health

Ward - For each nearby Enemy Hero:

• Gain 3 Magical Armor.

Wither - Nearby Enemy Heroes:

• Have their Magical Armor decreased by 20%.

It's in this post

I placed it here

It's magic citadel essentially

[dry sigil]

basically mirrored citadel

still where is magic basilisk

[smoky venture]

There used to be update 6 Magnify an I'm still thinking about a proposal for that.

[dry sigil]

thatd actually be more useful i think

cuz u see if youre bruiser youre aiming more towards 1v1

this is for teamfights, so more towards a tank

[smoky venture]

Aegis achieves the same effect but I understand the desire for it as I have been asking for it for years

[dry sigil]

no, aegis gives mr based on enemies nearby and reduces magic armor in an aura. thats a 100% teamfight item

[smoky venture]

I know but I said it effectively does the same

[restive wren]

also increase ward effect. Even citadel gives 5 per enemy hero. You should buff it to 5 instead

[smoky venture]

I also acknowledge the desire for a ranged corrode option

[smoky venture]

Magical Armor has higher value

Needs to be adjusted or it risks having too much

[restive wren]

what do you mean higher value?

[smoky venture]

Per stat Value

It's the reason Crystalline Cuirass no longer gives 90 Magical Armor

[dry sigil]

nah. fb and flux both have 40 armor

[restive wren]

ohh i see it now

[smoky venture]

The Value of Magic Armor is higher then Physical this is why across the board it has 10 to 15 less armor with their physical counterparts

[dry sigil]

then what is fb counterpart?

id have said flux

[smoky venture]

None it doesn't have one

Same with Flux

As it's a team fight support item primarily wait did they change it to tank I don't remember

Yeap it's tank now

Explains the high stats

The closest thing to Flux Matrix is Citadel and that isn't a 1:1 due to one being a bruiser item meant for damage

[dry sigil]

how is the value of magic armor higher. against typical comps you need like 2 or 3 times as many phys. armor items as magic armor items

so physical armor has higher demand and is harder to build effectively cuz of all the physical armor shred

[smoky venture]

Per stat Cost of Magic Armor is higher is what I meant

We need a Magic Stonewall for Magic Shred items to be more valuable and encouraged to be added

[dry sigil]

isnt that what cuirass is supposed to be

[smoky venture]

No Cuirass is an anti slow item

[dry sigil]

how is it in any way related to slows

it gives a speed boost, but from taking magic damage

[smoky venture]

Magic damage dealt increases movespeed

Most slow effects are caused by Magic Damage

It's the reason Spectra was and still is such a huge problem

There is no real counter to it

At least it isn't as oppressive as it was on Launch

[restive wren]

Oh spectra slows people down? I should put that on belica

[dry sigil]

still questionable. how is a stacking speedbuff, from taking magic damage, considered to be targeted at (usually singular) slows that may or may not be caused my magic damage

an anti slow item id expect sth like slow resistance

or a speeboost upon being slowed

[smoky venture]

You joke about that but when it first came out people were putting that item on everyone due to how stupid 50% slow was it was like Elafrost little brother.

The root Elafrost not the current one

[smoky venture]

I think it had something like that we also had Tec Mallet but it was removed

Which is dumb

They need to stop removing stuff

[dry sigil]

in any case the current version is not anti slow

[smoky venture]

Yes that is correct wish it was though

[dry sigil]

it is a stacking speed and magic armor buff that stacks from taking magic damage. so its anti magic damage dot

[smoky venture]

I would like to see more utility and anti CC items

[dry sigil]

ppl still do that recently played against a typhoon prophecy spectra aurora

[smoky venture]

Yeah doesn't surprise me but I doubt she did well no?

[restive wren]

Jesus

[dry sigil]

nah i clapped her

[restive wren]

Grux?

[smoky venture]

Actually no that is 250 Attack Speed Jesus can they even move?

[dry sigil]

wdym

who cant move

[smoky venture]

Aurora with Spectra she would be constantly applying a slow while rooting them

[dry sigil]

first of all the root is really easy to dodge. just gotta hug her close

which is easy as long as youre stronger than her

[smoky venture]

I'm saying more along the lines that they wouldn't be able to escape her due to the slow and the root

[restive wren]

Spectras slow effect is on 10 sec cd

[smoky venture]

3 hit CD

3s per hit

Spectra

+40% Attack Speed
+10 Ability Haste

Radiant Strikes - On Basic Attacks:
• Deal 25 Damage On-Hit.
• Reduces the Cooldown of Prisma by 3s.
• Damaging a Hero 3 times with this effect within 3s activates Prisma.

Prisma - 10s CD:
• Deals 20 (+3 per Level) Damage.
• Increases from 1x-3x based on Target's Missing Health.
• Slows by 40% for 0.3s.

[restive wren]

As shit i see reduce cd

[dry sigil]

yeah but i think it goes like this: activate prisma -> hit 3 times to get the cd down -> hit another 3 times to activate prisma again

i dont think the 3 strikes you use to reduce prisma cd count towards its activation no?

[smoky venture]

It does

[dry sigil]

oh thats nice

skylar woohoo

[restive wren]

🤮

[smoky venture]

Yeah remember on release it was 50% for like .5s or something

[dry sigil]

but still its only a .3 second slow

[restive wren]

Her on hit effectiveness suck tho

[smoky venture]

Her hyper beam procs it at 12% effectiveness

[smoky venture]

Effectively a root on short cooldown

[dry sigil]

40% is not a root

[smoky venture]

Effectively

[dry sigil]

and even then a .3 second root does very little

[restive wren]

Sky could use basilisk

Instant proc

[smoky venture]

If you lose half you movement speed you go to a crawl

And it's enough to disrupt movement

Due it enough times and you can play keep away

Not to mention the growing true damage on it

[dry sigil]

in the end of the day it still doesnt work

[smoky venture]

Did you ever experience her Crit AP build?

[restive wren]

is there any other slowing item on hit like that?

[dry sigil]

not on aurora

[restive wren]

no 0_o

[smoky venture]

Lightning Hawk

[restive wren]

oh

plasma

[dry sigil]

bonesaw 😄

[smoky venture]

Lol

Rapture was a mistake

[dry sigil]

plasma doesnt slow

does it

[smoky venture]

They removed a perfectly ok item and put a shitty on hit item instead

[dry sigil]

you wouldve wanted to keep bonesaw???

[restive wren]

no he was asking me about crit ap build and i said no but then i remembered plasma cutter

bonesaw is hella cancer to play against

[dry sigil]

nah rapture much better than bonesaw

[smoky venture]

I disagree I don't like that item Bonesaw has utility and I prefer that over Rapture

[dry sigil]

well i dont like that bonesaw had physical power

[smoky venture]

The Remove it

A lot of items really shouldn't have some stats

I don't think Fire Blossom should have had Armor I think more health and Health Regen would have been better

[dry sigil]

now were talking! lests first rid those carry items of all that physical power and crit. they dont need that.

[dry sigil]

nah does anyone care about health regen rly

unless its raiment

[smoky venture]

Almost every tank it's massive for them

[smoky venture]

Do people actually use that garbage

[dry sigil]

well if you want to regen health at a decent pace... though yeah we now got catalytic

but natural health regen, you rly gonna wait a minute for what, 500 health?

go recall and run back

way faster way more health

[smoky venture]

Even before Cat it wasn't good it has an 8s out of combat timer that it genuinely made it better to base and walk back to objective.

[dry sigil]

exactly! so wtf are you relying on health regen for

[smoky venture]

Health Regen has no out of combat timer

I start healing off the bat and if you have enough of it you can get some decent healing that isn't based on missing health

[dry sigil]

so steel has 6.5 health regen lvl 18. say you get like 300% health regen from items? then thats 19.5 hp/second

20 for convenience

1.2k hp in a minute

congrats thats notable

but still pointless

either youre low and you recall

[smoky venture]

Still better than Raiments

But I agree

[dry sigil]

or you have enough hp for objective and continue

[smoky venture]

Exactly

[dry sigil]

nobody cares about that paltry regen

[smoky venture]

But my point was nat Regen is better then Missing Health

It has more value so if we had more health Regen items it would be more notable

[dry sigil]

you said "its massive for tanks"

[smoky venture]

Yes

[smoky venture]

If we had more of it

[dry sigil]

if

things that follow an if can usually savely be ignored

[smoky venture]

Yeah in this context it can and I agree but I would like to see Regen tanks make a comeback thet were killed off since beta release

I miss having 50HP/s

[dry sigil]

i mean you have khai. just need some camps.

[smoky venture]

Yeah but I have 700 matches as Khai

It's getting boring

Says the guy with 2300 matches as Sevarog

I'm exaggerating

I know it's in the 4 digit mark but it's definitely not that high