#Make Narbash ranged

1557 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

remote stirrup
dull trail
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again: its omedas decision to rework narbash or not.

just because 5 people dont like changes to their fav hero doesnt mean they are right.
I presented various arguments and facts why ranged narb is better than melee narb.

Yes, you and others had reasons and arguments why you think narbash shouldnt be ranged, but as you can read in this thread, I refuted mostly every argument someone had.

I ALWAYS had good arguments.

the main arguments you guys had were:

  1. we already have ranged healers
  2. they would have to rebalance him
  3. he his fun right now and doesnt need a change
  4. omeda wouldnt do it anyways
  5. his ult is kinda a melee ability
  6. hes supposed to be weak early game and strong lategame

yada yada

my arguments:

  1. doesnt matter. narb is AEO aura healer. zinx is single target burst healer. they play totally different and have nothing in common besides they would be a ranged supporter and can heal someone. there is plenty of room for all kinds of healers in this game, like there is plenty of room for all kind of tanks or ADCs in this game. a moba dont have just ONE hero of every category.

  2. wheres the problem? heroes get rebalanced every patch lol

  3. yes hes fun right now, but thats not the point. he can be way more fun with basic and passive changes, because hes way more active. pressing buttons is fun. skill expression is fun.
    if you like less activity and passive gameplay more, its fine for me that we dont just agree with this. his kit is too passive right now. you have 3 skills that dont do much. i wanna change ONE of these 3, his basics. thats all.

  4. Omeda wouldnt do tons of changes player have. that shouldnt stop any player from giving feedback. wtf

  5. yeah, he can engage with his ult and he has to charge in with his Q. but that doesnt make him a melee or tank hero. he can enter the fight and back up after this. ranged basics doesnt change anything in his ability to ult in a teamfight or bodyblocking anything

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  1. who is saying that? why cant he be balanced the entire game?
    have does he HAVE to be a scaling hero? anyways: just nerf him early game a bit to compensate for his new ability to do ranged auto attacks? where is any problem with his? just turn down some numbers but just let him DO stuff instead of waiting on his carrys side and throw a thunk every 20 seconds.

ranged melee attacks with an overhaul of his passive would make him MORE FUN and MORE ACTIVE to play

remote stirrup
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For me

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If I 100% know going into this Omeda wouldn’t change him

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What’s the point?

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I don’t need the practice typing out feedback

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Just me personally my belief is if the feedback that I post has 0 potential to ever be implemented into the game , I just view it as pointless

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Only for this sole purpose

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At the end of the day, aside from all your other points

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Omeda would legit basically have to remake narbash from scratch

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His animations would be completely different

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His model

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You’re probably talking at least a couple months worth of work

dull trail
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No. He just needs a new basic attack animation and that is kinda there because of thunk.

But I doenst matter HOW they doing it. thats not my job. I just wanted to point out why it should happen.

bro its not months of work to reanimate ONE animation 😂

remote stirrup
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????

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You’re not just redoing one animation

dull trail
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and yes, I know that omeda will not prioritice this minor change for an existing hero instead of doing new ones, but bloodmordius said in the interview, that they will redo some of the older heroes in the future. that narbash thing was ONE of my suggestions what they can do. there are some other heroes as well who needs to be looked at like phase, belica, maybe iggy

remote stirrup
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Stances, postures, basic attacks, March, song of my people, ultimate

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VFX

dull trail
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again: its NOT my job to tell people HOW to do it

snow tulip
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brother a narbash rework/existing heros won't happen for years

remote stirrup
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I’m telling you it’s not just a 1 day thing where they tweak one animation

dull trail
snow tulip
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most existing heros are in a good spot

remote stirrup
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It’s months of worth

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Work

snow tulip
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yeee

dull trail
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guys that doesnt matter wtf

snow tulip
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for a change that isn't currently needed

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they need to focus on other important things

remote stirrup
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You don’t get that

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They literally factor that in when making decisions

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What???

dull trail
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inventing the light bulb took years. but glad SOMEONE pointed out that a light bulb would be a good idea

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so imagine nobody would give ANY feedback, because it would take work

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whats that argument?

snow tulip
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bro you aren't that guy

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🤣

remote stirrup
dull trail
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it is

remote stirrup
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That’s not an accurate comparison

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No it’s not

dull trail
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it doesnt matter how big or small an idea is. I just pointed something out

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its not my business to make a decision

snow tulip
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yea lets make a light bulb while we still don't have wires or electricity

dull trail
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I just pointed out that there is a way to make narbash more fun

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for future hero overhauls. I dont know when "future" even is. maybe the game is dead in 2 years. who knows? that has nothing to do with giving feedback in a FEEDBACK thread

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imagine no one should give any feedback because something needs work to implement.

snow tulip
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the thing is narbash doesn't need a change atm

remote stirrup
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The lightbulb comparison doesn’t quite work because inventing it involved countless people over years, whereas a small game studio like Omeda has limited resources and must prioritize what they work on. While feedback is important, they have to weigh suggestions like reworking Narbash into a ranged hero against their roadmap and other priorities. Unlike the lightbulb, which was a widespread public innovation, Omeda’s decisions are constrained by time, team size, and development capacity, so not every suggestion, even if valid, can realistically be acted upon.

dull trail
snow tulip
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you got 38 👎

dull trail
dull trail
# snow tulip you got 38 👎

yeah and 5 people typing. u think any of these 38 read through this whole thread? maybe a few. still heard no valid arguments against it

dull trail
snow tulip
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its useless work

dull trail
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they can say: good idea, too much work, we have other things to do.

totally fine

snow tulip
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its not needed

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like saying make kallari ranged

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sure its feedback

dull trail
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kallari has no reasons to be ranged. narbash has

dull trail
# snow tulip its not needed

its not crucial, i know but its needed if you wanna make narbash more active and fun. thats what the feedback is about

snow tulip
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many people disagreed it won't be fun

dull trail
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its an easy way to make an old hero better in an easy and quick way. nothing else

dull trail
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show me one message of someone who said ranged narbash would be boring

snow tulip
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i know

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theres a whole thread about it

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few hundred messages

dull trail
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yes. and I read every message here and responded to mostly every of them

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and no one said it wouldnt be fun.

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they said its not possible, its too much work, its not needed

snow tulip
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i wouldn't find it fun

dull trail
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or we have ranged healers already

snow tulip
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personally

dull trail
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why is a melee narbash more fun than a ranged narbash?

snow tulip
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i couldn't do narbash solo anymore

dull trail
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why?

snow tulip
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or narbash jungle

dull trail
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ranged narbash solo is even more fun

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and narbash jungle is kinda a troll pick tbh

snow tulip
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how the game currently is

dull trail
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but yeah

snow tulip
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i find it fun

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making him ranged would ruin it

dull trail
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maybe you couldnt do narbash jungle

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but you could do narbash mid or ADC instead

dull trail
snow tulip
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his basic stat-line numbers would need to be changed alot

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making him less efficient as a frontliner because he would have ranged hero stats

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in jungle/solo

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like i wouldn't be able to run fireblossom on solo narbash anymore

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his basics were actually so good at one point they nerfed it

snow tulip
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when i thunk them

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so ranged would ruin all that for me

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so im against it

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might aswell make a new hero ranged enchanter and let me keep narbash

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narbash tank in brawl is pretty fun too

dull trail
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lol ok

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"I wanna troll in other roles with a support healer"
"i like hitting people with sticks"

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good reasons

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I accept it. u won the argument

snow tulip
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i guess your fun matters more than mine

dull trail
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nah its fine

snow tulip
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😦

dull trail
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nothing I can say against it

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u like hitting people with sticks and you wanna build fireblossom on narbash jungle

snow tulip
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i do

dull trail
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yes

snow tulip
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narbash tank is pretty good too

dull trail
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how can I argument against this?

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and I like playing narbash support to heal people and I like throwing sticks

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so we agree that we dont agree.

snow tulip
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🤷‍♂️

dull trail
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wouldnt you prefer to play an actual melee jungler with actual tank abilities?

snow tulip
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he has tank abilites

dull trail
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which one?

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not even his stats are tanky

snow tulip
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his ult is good for frontlining for his team

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and his heal

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his thunk

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and speed boost

dull trail
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yeah but how does any of this abilitys make him more tanky?

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heal and speed boost are meant to heal and boost others

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he needs a lot of mana to keep his heal online

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u dont have mana or mana reg if you build him tanky

snow tulip
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you do

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ela frost

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galaxy greaves

dull trail
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and you dont have great heal if you dont build magical power

snow tulip
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its good enough for yourself

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pretty good actually that the enemy solo would need to build anti heal to win trades

dull trail
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u need to build anti heal against most other heroes who can heal

snow tulip
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right

dull trail
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countess, sev, grux, crunch, maybe greystone, khaimera yada yada

snow tulip
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thats what i saying his heal is not useless without magical power

dull trail
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do we agree that his healing scales of magical power and needs much mana and mana reg? and if you build tanky that u dont have them both?

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and do we agree that he has just ONE single target damage ability besides his ult?

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so the only thing in jungle to clear camps is his thunk every 15 seconds or so?

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or to waveclear on offlane?

snow tulip
dull trail
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i mean. you can play what you want. people play iggy in jungle even. but I think we can agree that tahts not efficient and kinda troll to do.

snow tulip
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I find it fun

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i enjoy playing

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thats why i don't want him ranged

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because it would ruin that for me

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try narbash tank in brawl

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its fun too

dull trail
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yes im fine with that

snow tulip
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i think its more engaging to play him melee

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than ranged

dull trail
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nah

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mostly you are standing in the backline healing people or boosting them

snow tulip
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i don't

dull trail
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especially in the laning phase

snow tulip
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i go in and ult the whole team

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and they have to focus me

dull trail
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yes, but you can do that with ranged attacks too

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ranged basics dont mean u cant ult anymore

snow tulip
dull trail
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gideon is ranged too and engages people with AOE spells

snow tulip
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but then i wouldn't be able to play narbash solo anymore

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i couldn't frontline as good when he's ranged

dull trail
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technically you can do everything with ranged basics than with melee

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even more

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you can zone the enemy offlaner better

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and you can still build tank items

snow tulip
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nah i wouldn't find it engaging or fun

dull trail
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why not?

snow tulip
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and tank items scale worse with ranged heros

snow tulip
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i don't find ranged solo fun tbh

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not for me

dull trail
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so u like throwing drumsticks but dont like that he could throwing drumsticks?

snow tulip
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i like being personal with people in solo so i rather hit them with my drummers

dull trail
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ok

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nothing I can say about that

snow tulip
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would you like it if narbash was a tank in support?

dull trail
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its like I said, we should use electricity and light bulbs to make our homes light and some one comes and tells me that he likes candles more

snow tulip
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while having heal powers? mana regen, mana and magical power etc etc

dull trail
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with tank abilities.

snow tulip
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he has pretty good tank abilities for a support

dull trail
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but narbash has to stay near his teammates to heal and boost them

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and his stun is ranged

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so hes more a ranged AOE healer and not a tank

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dont mind to get a new tank healer who can heal from the frontline

snow tulip
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this could all change in the future with new items

dull trail
snow tulip
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same with narbash

dull trail
snow tulip
dull trail
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thats more for your team

snow tulip
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thunk to engage or disengage

dull trail
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because whats the point for narbash to engage?

snow tulip
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and same with his ult

dull trail
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his ult, but thats it

snow tulip
dull trail
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a kill? as a support?

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which support takes kills? 😄

snow tulip
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in mid to late game when you land a thunk thats a good kill potentional for your team

dull trail
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what is he gonna do after an engage? hitting people with his stick. wow thats scary

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thunk is ranged

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he doesnt need to be close

snow tulip
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he can be in their face and speed boost his team

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and ult

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while healing his team

dull trail
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his ult is kinda ranged too

snow tulip
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eh

dull trail
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it has a radius like his heal and speedboost

snow tulip
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its a radius but he has to be in range

dull trail
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he doenst need to be in melee range to knockup people

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yeah but not melee range

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just far enough that he hits people

snow tulip
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yea but he's still in ranged for range basic attacks and abilites

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like i said theres many reasons to engage as narbash support

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he's not as passive as you think

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he just has a rough time in the beginning against ranged support in duo because ranged is crazy broken in term of pressure applied early especially against melee

solid willow
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S0n1c must be right that is this thread

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Moving on

dull trail
# solid willow S0n1c must be right that is this thread

I’ve noticed that in our discussions, you often avoid addressing the actual arguments and instead make comments like ‘You’re always right’ or shift the focus away from the topic. It feels like we’re not really engaging with the points being made, and it’s hard to have a productive conversation that way. Can we focus more on the arguments and facts?

snow tulip
remote stirrup
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The fact is id rather Omeda focus on new heroes than old ones when the rework falls outside the scope of the limitations within the provided assets

snow tulip
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not ranged but a longer melee

dull trail
snow tulip
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i know

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thats too much

dull trail
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the problem is, he has short arms and a short "weapon"

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so throwing sticks is more accurate I think

snow tulip
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yea looks weird when he melees

dull trail
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like morigesh whos throwing knifes

snow tulip
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nah

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i just want a little longer range on his melee

dull trail
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i know

snow tulip
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but not a range basic attack

remote stirrup
snow tulip
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true

dull trail
snow tulip
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reworking under-performing legacy heros is a conversation that needs to happen years down the line by this rate of development

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but not now with a hero that is doing fine and has been for a while

subtle cave
remote stirrup
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Did they just change it so you cannot cleanse her mark with like liberator?

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Feel like I just cleansed it a couple days ago

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Or are you saying you want that change?

snow tulip
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its an example

remote stirrup
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Gotcha

snow tulip
golden topaz
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This thread still going is so entertaining haha ngl 😉

subtle cave
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Not implemented

dull trail
snow tulip
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he's already fun though

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for me

drifting zodiac
rancid palm
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I think narbash is fine as he is rn, wouldnt suggest any changes
Imo he is one of the more fun heroes to play
He only needs some slightly buffs and he is in a good place i would say
There are heroes being wayy to blunt, with an almost braindead playstyle like steel or khaimera as extreme examples
I would prefer to see reworks of those characters

zinc charm
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THat being said i have been watching and reading this topic closely and I do understand @dull trail reason as to why he wants to change narbash to a semi ranged hero as he believes it wwill fit the playstyle more and the way he wants to implement the change it wouldnt necessarily be a buff. However, the way i play narbash i do auto quite often even as a meele so i dont see a reason for his change but i understand that if you play narbash with all squishy healing items then it makes sense why this change would make sense

snow tulip
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teh FOOL has spoken

dull trail
# rancid palm I think narbash is fine as he is rn, wouldnt suggest any changes Imo he is one o...

hm...
the difference between narbash and steel for example is (at least for me) that steel does actual things when he presses buttons.
press a button CHARGE
press a button jump in the fuckin air and slam people. boxing them while tanking a lot of damage, press a button stun em.

I think hes quiet easy to play, yes but pred also needs easy heroes like greystone.

narbash doesn these things. the only action button he has is his ult. His E and his Q are just "activations". sure, his Q makes yall faster for a moment but thats it. throwing thunks is fun and survive every teamfights cause of massive heals is also fun (for me), and his ult of course. but pressing E or Q or even basic attacking is not much "impact". its not that your PC explodes because you activate your heals.

I want narbash be ranged for a simple reason. cancel his passive effect for healing or buffing people. connect his passive with his basics.

then your playstyle will shift from standing safe in the backline doing nothing but thunks to standing in enemy range, try to hit every basic to keep your massive mana regen going so you can heal forever.

the enemys job is then to kill you in the backline to prevent you from healing forever. healing is not for free anymore. you have action because you need to be in range to hit people and you need to be near your allys to heal them. thats way more things to do and way more action.

of course you could change his kit to a more melee version with melee attacks, but he still has to be near his mates for the heals and hes too squishy to be the frontline. he doesnt have abilities to tank burst damage.

yall know, if you can reach narbash in a teamfight, he explodes right away. if he builds tank items, its maybe not the case, but then it doesnt matther that much, because his heals are way weaker then. 🙂

thanks for your reply too @zinc charm

rancid palm
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I think if u want him to feel more like impact they could also just change his movement ability to a ranked slow, idk like hes playing his drums, sending out a shockwave infront of him
And if u hit enemy heroes u might get his aoe movement speed buff

solid willow
solid willow
dull trail
idle pewter
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Speed is quite useful

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I'd also like to add that the arguement of healing is a backline ability is quite silly. You'd sort of want to be in the position where you can heal the backline and the frontline without frontlining yourself. Its not a backline ability. You dont heal your carries (who should be at a safe distance, taking no damage), instead you heal your frontline.

So Narbash plays more forward than lets say a ranged support like Dekker and Zinx.

dull trail
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nah u are standing between your frontline and your backline. kinda in the middle. thats why ranged narbash is nice, because you can stand behind your tanks and shoot the enemy instead of direktly on their side, not healing your mages and ADCs

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u constantly adjusting your positioning to keep everybody in your heal range. thats why you mostly dont do melee basics.

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of course you can do basics if someone stand right in front of you, or its a 2v2 or something

autumn cobalt
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1280 messages is crazy
But icl narb is in a good spot, and doesn't need a rework like that. If there comes a time where he's unplayable for a long time, or his kit no longer works at all, a full rework could be considered as well as considering making him ranged. But as he is now, with his kit being playable and usable, he doesn't need it
It would be an unnecessary buff that would require his numbers being changed in multiple places, especially his auto attack scaling, and his healing

solid willow
dull trail
solid willow
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You have other heroes that heal and are ranged play them idk what to tell you. There's zero reason to give narb ranged basics

dull trail
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theres not zero reasons. just because there are other heroes who can heal doesnt mean narbashs kit is perfect lol.

i have listed here for the 100th time the reasons why narbash should rather be a ranged hero. how can you still say after hundreds of messages that there are no reasons. do you even read the texts here?

idle pewter
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There are reasons to make him ranged and to keep him melee.

Both can exist, they dont necessarily invalidate each other. But the main takeaway is that the reason to keep him melee outweigh the positives making him ranged would bring.

  • Narbash is a consistently strong support
  • Narbash is quite popular
  • Him being melee is a design choice to make his laning phase weak (Narbash is a late-game support)
  • It would be an unnecessary resource allocation at Omeda to change his model and balance for something that is not required.
  • It would force Narbash to be a "sit back" support and take away from his unique playstyle.
  • The support roster would have 1 less melee hero to pick from when there's already a few, hurting hero diversity
  • The change would not flow well with his ultimate. Changing him to ranged would change his base stats to be less suited for close range, which goes against his R.
  • His passive would feel less important in the early game if you can consistently stack it.
  • Making him ranged would invalidate his build diversity and encourge a strictly enchanter build, sticking with his ADC in the backline. Which imo is a less interesting playstyle.

Whereas the arguments supporting why he should have ranged attacks boil down to "its more fun", which is subjective and that it "fits his kit more" which is objectively wrong. He was clearly designed being a melee hero. A weakness of a kit is a deliberate choice. Not all kits have ups, they need to be balanced with some downs.

You say ranged fits his style better because of thunk, which is a ranged stun, when there are examples of a melee hero having a ranged CC ability like Terra and Rampage. Both with a mobility ability to engage/disengage; just like Narbash Q.

idle pewter
autumn cobalt
dull trail
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I not only listened to every argument in this thread, I respondet to every message in this thread bro. How can u say that I dont listen lol. I understand every point yall making.

Let me tell you something about your points youve made:

  1. My change is not about hero strength
  2. Popularity have nothing to do with making a hero better. you can even make khaimera better. nothing is wrong with making things better.
  3. Who told you that someone made a choice that he has to be bad in the early game? who even wants to play a bad hero? maybe hes just bad and it wasnt a choice, so to compensate of his bad laning phase because hes melee and dont have any melee abilities, they made him stronger late game.
  4. Again: Just because somethin takes work doesnt mean that things cant be better. whats that argument?!
  5. It forces narbash not to sit back. its the other way: narbash NOW sits back because of his kit. making him ranged would just compliment his kit.
  6. yeah we had 1 less melee hero, but then there is more space for another REAL melee hero.
  7. His base stats can be balanced in 100 ways. base stats arent fix. omeda can change them how they want. they even can give him a small shield or you just usw truesilver for your ultimate.
  8. His passive would be WAY better, because you would have to actually DO something instead of just pressing E and its stacking by itself. thats not fun gamedesign. thats just boring.
  9. this point proves that you dont understand what my point is. after so many messages.
    you still can build him as tanky as you want. His gameplay would be way more engaging because you have to do something in a fight instead of just chilling, healing and stacking your passive automatically. narbash NOW has to do nothing. just press Q and E and waiting to thunk someone. thats it.

ranged narbash would have to build stacks with his basics allone, trying to aim at people, trying to be positioned correctly to reach everyone.

dull trail
autumn cobalt
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I can tell you'll die on this hill so I'm just gonna dip
Cya

idle pewter
dull trail
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nah im fine

solid willow
idle pewter
# dull trail I not only listened to every argument in this thread, I respondet to every messa...
  1. It definitely affects the strength
  2. You'd be pissing off a lot of people with the change.
  3. Narbash isnt "bad" early game, he's just weak so that he can be strong late game. By making his early game stronger, you'd need to make his late game weaker to balance it out. He wasnt made strong late game cos he was made melee. He was made strong late game cos he was meant to be.
  4. Its a small indie company. People want new heroes and skins, not a stupid "rework" for a support hero.
  5. If you sit back as Narbash, thats a problem with you and not us. Im an active and aggressive Narbash who gets in the fight 90% of the time. Knowing when to go in for hits and when to sit back takes skill and knowledge of the game. Something a ranged hero doesnt have to think about as much, taking away skill expression and so takes away fun.
  6. Narbash is a real melee hero.
  7. Moot point
  8. You DO have to do something for his passive rn. Early game Narbash basic attacking can make a good difference, and knowing when you can safetly stack it up is skill expression.
  9. Im just arguing against one of your points. That Narbash' kit isnt "designed for him to be ranged", quite the opposite
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It seems to me you dont actually play Narbash

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Sounds to me you played him once or twice and want his laning phase (hardest part arguably) of Narbash to go easier

solid willow
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you have to weaken his defense and healing significantly to make the change lmfao. his ult would no longer fit the kit lmfao, the only thing that would work is the speed boost and muriel gonna chuck her shoe at him for having a better boost

idle pewter
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You only have 34 matches on Narbash

solid willow
dull trail
idle pewter
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Winrate has nothing to do with it

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Its about understanding the hero, inside and out

dull trail
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yes. I have about 2k matches in pred, more than 5k in paragon and some thousands in overprime and fault. trust me, I know paragon heroes

idle pewter
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Playing is not understanding

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I can turn my brain off and shit out 100s of games

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Doesnt mean ill understand better

subtle cave
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Playtime ≠ skill/understanding

idle pewter
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My point primarily is you barely have enough experience playing Narbash. Actually experiencing his ups and downs, properly leaning into him as a hero

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What he can and cannot do

dull trail
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As I told you a message ago. I have thousands of ours in pred and other paragon titles.
and for the 100th time: its not about what he can do or what hes capable of

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it seems that u stillt dont unterstand what is wild to me

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its about his PASSIVE abilities

idle pewter
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I main Narbash and I absolutely love, and enjoy his kit. You can tell me his E and Q are uninteractive but I'd tell you otherwise.

In my humble opinion, his Q is his strongest ability. I almost always go Leafsong Crest for the same reason. Speed is a game changer in the right situations.

On top of that, his E is the most boring but it doesnt have to be if you actually go into the action and position well, keeping a track of your passive stacks and managing your resources. Cant blow all that mana on healing when a thunk or a speed boost can impact a situation more. Especially early game where mana management is everything

idle pewter
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Not much about Narbash screams passive to me

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I mean you can use that arguement with anyone. Muriel shield is passive

dull trail
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muriel has to time and aim every of her abilities lol

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wdym

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narbash has to aim ONE ability.

solid willow
idle pewter
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Im a support player with thousand+ games, and a couple hundred of ADC

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Yet, Im confident in my inability to fully understand the ADC role

idle pewter
dull trail
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ok good for you lol

idle pewter
solid willow
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yep

idle pewter
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Honestly not worth it if they only got a couple CC

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Just dont engage with R and youre good half the time

dull trail
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ok

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and why u telling me that?

solid willow
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if you play enough narbash you can keep distance and get off ult while not being CCed

idle pewter
dull trail
idle pewter
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And since the beginning been saying this is a shit idea and goes against his playstyle

idle pewter
dull trail
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no it goes along his playstyle

idle pewter
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Same as spacing with any other melee hero

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Its a mechanic

idle pewter
dull trail
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again: nothing of his kit needs him to be melee

idle pewter
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Narbash is not designed to sit back

dull trail
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he is purely designed to sit back

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and thats the problem

idle pewter
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E, R and Passive

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More than half his kit

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Is for melee

dull trail
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nope.

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u telling me u main narbash

idle pewter
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I do

dull trail
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and you say his E and passive is for melee 😂

idle pewter
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Yes

solid willow
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honestly you know who narbash becomes a clone of if they were to give him range Sona from LOL which again you would have to change the ult because it wouldnt work into something like hers. but again you make him into Sona and your starting to blur the uniqueness of the heroes zinx, muriel , phase, etc.

dull trail
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Q, sry

idle pewter
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Narbash would need a redesign if he were to be ranged

dull trail
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ok narbash speeds himself up with his Q. for what? hitting people with 20 damage basic attacks? or tanking with what? he doesnt have shields, he doesnt have much armor or life

idle pewter
solid willow
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ok narbash speeds himself up with his Q. for what? hitting people with 20 damage basic attacks? sona does the same thing basically and she and narb are supports your speeding your teamates up. why are you playing narb when you clearly dont realize hes a support?

dull trail
idle pewter
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Moot point

dull trail
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cant talk to two people at once

idle pewter
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Narbash isnt supposed to only heal. His R is literally so strong and his strongest ability. Tho granted, its an ulti so makes sense for it to be

dull trail
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hows that comparable to narbash?

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narbash has 3 AOE abilitys and a ranged thunk

idle pewter
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Did you just forget the fact you said Narbash cant be in the frontline because he has sustained healing and not shields

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I made a comparison to healing

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Not kit design

solid willow
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why are you comparing rampage to narbash rampage is a completely different role

idle pewter
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Hence he is the heart of the battle

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And cant sit back

dull trail
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you ult after its safe for you to ult

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if you just run into an enemy team you just explode

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and get stunned out of it rly quick

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you have to wait for stuns on cd and your tanks tanking

idle pewter
idle pewter
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Just because youre not an engager, doesnt mean you dont belong in the frontline

dull trail
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the only reason u think narbash belongs to the front is because he hase melee basic attacks

idle pewter
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Narbash is useless at the back, unless you need to peel for your ADC. He is much stronger at the heart of the battle with speed boost, heals and thunks

dull trail
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if he was made ranged, NOBODY would even argue about that he has to be melee

idle pewter
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You can thunk the enemy ADC, sitting back just gives you angles on the tanks

dull trail
idle pewter
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Which you wouldnt wanna stun in the first place

idle pewter
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Not cos of his basics

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I dont think you should be in melee range late game

dull trail
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His E and Q are aoes for your team. so you have to be in front of your ranged and behind your tanks

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in the center.

idle pewter
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Yes

dull trail
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yes. and with ranged attacks, he could stay safe behind his tanks, attacking enemys for passive stacks

idle pewter
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No

dull trail
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instead of just healing and getting stacks for free

idle pewter
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He'd need to be rebalanced and redesigned

dull trail
idle pewter
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And my point is that its completelt unnecessary

dull trail
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redesign him ranged and rebalance him

idle pewter
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"Lets redesign Shinbi and make a new hero"

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For what??

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Riot Games murdered old Aatrox

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The fans hated it

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They reworked him into an entirely new champion

dull trail
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for what? simply to make narbash more fun and active to play

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thats why

idle pewter
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He is active to play for all reasons Ive said before

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And he is fun to play, hence his popularity

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You personally dont enjoy him

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And thats okay

dull trail
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I really enjoy hin

idle pewter
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But you dont gonna advocate for his change lol

dull trail
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thats why i want to make him better

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I wouldnt care, if narbash wasnt fun

idle pewter
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By better you mean removing his intentional weakness?

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Thats not good game design

dull trail
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who told you that his weakness is intentional?

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you talked to epic games?

subtle cave
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I really enjoy Kira. But she’s weak with her ult. So i propose she’s CC immune whilst in it.

It’s the same energy you’re giving

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Every hero needs pros and cons

dull trail
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yes. kiras ult kinda sucks. it should have ramp damage on it

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or a rework like sparrows ult

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that you can continue shooting after a stun. her ult is kinda bad rn

subtle cave
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You’re proposing redesigning narbash. With the amount of redesign he would need. It’s just an entirely new hero at that point

idle pewter
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Steve Superville visited me

subtle cave
dull trail
subtle cave
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We’re going round and round in circles here

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So many people have told you the same points

idle pewter
dull trail
dull trail
subtle cave
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If you were to make him ranged. And keep his abilities as they are. You would have to reduce numbers to a point where his auras aren’t effective anymore

idle pewter
dull trail
subtle cave
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No, because he’d have more pressure

idle pewter
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Have you played into a double ranged lane ever in your life where they actually know how to play?

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Narbash as ranged with thunks, Qs and the E would be busted

dull trail
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with some points I cant argue

dull trail
idle pewter
subtle cave
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I think the underlying thing is

Some heroes can be boring to play. And that’s ok. Not every hero needs all the bells and whistles and be super complex and active. Some heroes will be simple and easy to pick up

dull trail
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Im in diamond, so Im playing against good people, yes

subtle cave
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Just cos they’re simple doesn’t mean they need a rework

idle pewter
solid willow
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narb isnt even boring though he just has a ramp up time his cooldowns get very short the longer the match

idle pewter
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I hope this is a joke

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Ive seen diamond players

subtle cave
idle pewter
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They are average at best

dull trail
subtle cave
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Every button narbash has is something active?

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As explained eloquently by @idle pewter

idle pewter
subtle cave
solid willow
dull trail
solid willow
dull trail
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you have to aim 1 ability

subtle cave
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Aiming an ability ≠ active

dull trail
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and people complain about morigesh because of lock ons

solid willow
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greystone aims abilities?

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wait what

idle pewter
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You aim 1 ability on Aurora

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Can we please make her ranged?

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So boring to play

dull trail
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aurora is crazy good to play. so much skill expression in her kit

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and you know that.

idle pewter
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I do

solid willow
idle pewter
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Making Narb ranged will make him less skill expressive

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And you know that.

dull trail
dull trail
solid willow
idle pewter
dull trail
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how is it LESS skill expressive if I have to aim every shot to get mana reg for my passive?

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instead of just healing

idle pewter
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I dont feel like you fully understand the game. Granted, you need to aim with ranged heroes but thats a small deal of skill thats easily transferable from other games, whereas if you're a melee hero, one on the immobile side like Narbash with just a movement speed buff, you have to carefully think about your positioning and as to when and where you can engage safetely. Narbash less so since he is support but for things like Rampage, you gotta pick your fights cos of your long CDs. With a ranged ADC like Murdock or Twinblast, with CC and/or mobility, you can shit on an immobile melee hero like Grux easily by keeping distance

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In a nutshell

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Its 2am so fried rn but you get what I mean

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Narbash being able to constantly attack for mana regen vs actually judging the situation if its safe to go in for hits is not better skill expression

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Its more brain off moment

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He can stack it on the wave safetly whereas if he is melee, he cant really contest wave and stack there.

dull trail
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yes and because he cant attack people or the wave, thats why he stands passively beside his ADC or other teammates to just heal and speedbuff, because he DOESNT need to melee attack. nothing benefits from his melee attacks. your team dont need your 40 damage per hit. they need you to heal as long as possible and thunk dangerous people

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nothing of his kit benefits from him beeing a melee hero. thats why hes passive, because he cant mostly afford to step up and fight. he just dont needs to. I wanna change that so that he has to engage in fights to get his mana reg up, but simultaniously stay safe to heal his teammates.

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anyways. thanks for the discussion, so late at night

idle pewter
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Its not only about benefitting but offsetting his power distribution.

solid willow
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melee heroes into ranged are ment to be a struggling match up because most of those melee heroes come online later. steel with his R, narb with his insane ammount of sustain, riktor with his R

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you want to bully the melee early that is a goal because they get strong they gonna be nuts

golden topaz
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Still going whoot whoot 😉

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I'm so happy I can play predecessor on Tuesday again, but until then please keep this going haha, it's my daily dose of entertainment

idle pewter
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This thread is the new predatory pricing thread

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1000s of messages incoming

snow tulip
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all these messages for nothing

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talking to a wall

minor canyon
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You’re my wall

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…that saves me…

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And after alllllll

remote stirrup
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Wait

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You have 34 games and you’re saying all of this?

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I think you need time to master narbash and you’ll enjoy him more

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Also paragon and overprime means nothing

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They don’t play the way pred does

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3 different games

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It’s like me having 5000 hours on Call of Duty then going to Battlefield and saying I have the experience

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Sure FPS skills transfer and such

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But they play different

idle pewter
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Anyways, Aurora ranged when?

snow tulip
minor canyon
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Just Because man

pallid tusk
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Predecessor is not that far from Overprime or Paragon, lets not exagerate

minor canyon
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Overprime was wayyyyyy off from the original @pallid tusk

pallid tusk
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I know, but just by the fact that they use the same character with the 90% of the abilities being the same, makes the game really similar

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Even if the speed is different, even if the projectiles are different, even if the items are different, just having a game with the same characters and abilities in the same genre make those 3 games more similar than the majority of the games in the market

fleet stirrup
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I've already played a ranged Narbash before. It was Phase with Wellspring and it was cancer.

minor canyon
placid topaz
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This is a fever dream

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It is an idea and you guys are going insane Bro wtf.

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You are all talking about this topic, like the devs will do it.

minor canyon
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Everyone else is saying it won’t work

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This and that

placid topaz
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Why do I have to talk something down if it hasn’t even been tested yet?

minor canyon
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What’s that???

wicked pine
# placid topaz This is a fever dream

It really does seem like a fever dream. This many messages arguing about an idea to change a hero to ranged, forcing such a hefty time consuming rework of all aspects of said hero just to rebalance how it'd play;

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all because someone doesn't like how the hero plays

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idk maybe just

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don't play the hero, if you don't like it?

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Or learn to play it in a different way

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instead of insisting that it should be crafted and catered to how you want it

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hell

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just go make your own paragon

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feel free to make narbash ranged

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🤷

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#respect for the idea, and all the time you obviously put into your love for the game sOn1c [just found your youtube channel]

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but can we all please just stop beating this horse?

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it's been dead for so long already

golden topaz
placid topaz
plush coyote
visual robin
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If it's gonna happen it's probably along the lines of his Thunk being replaced by 3 Thunks that can be activated consecutively but only apply a slow not a stun.
But hey I don't think Omeda plans to be that finnicky with the individual heroes before releasing all of them

idle pewter
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Its a change thats more likely than making him ranged

minor canyon
visual robin