Chat banned for saying "U R BAD" is this real life Omeda? how are you people fucking serious?

[visual turret]

someone was toxic to me, I respond U R BAD and i am still chat banned 3 games later. Omeda is a fucking joke

[jovial prawn]

Folks are worrierd more about peoples feeling this day an age unfortunately

[dusty junco]

Looks like omeda is diving in deep woke dirty hole in terms of censorship. Tyrannical ban system.

[viscid cloud]

What's your IGN?

Game shouldn't ban you off this, I'll check your chat logs

We use a third party so I'll share it with them but I need your username

[upbeat bolt]

even presuming this is an edge case and shouldn't happening this comment still confuses me lol. The AI has context memory - if you've been rude and toxic before, its more likely to act on your account. Im really getting fed up of this "woke" stance - Im sorry you don't like that we prevent people from flaming each other with racist and homophobic and quite frankly death comments. Perhaps reflect 🙂

its not "woke" to have a moderated game.

https://80.lv/articles/activision-uses-ai-to-ban-racial-slurs-in-call-of-duty-voice-chats

¯_(ツ)_/¯

just because "we grew up with it" didn't make it any better.

Whether or not you agree, it doesn't matter at the end of the day, toxic behaviour needs to be reigned in, it doesn't promote fun or enjoyable gameplay - it just annoys people. Stop doing it ❤️

[cold gorge]

I do see what you're saying. But sometimes I do feel like the A.I goes overboard and Bans you. It's almost as if the game is trying TOO hard to protect people's feelings, and it's forgetting this is an inherently competitive environment.

Sometimes you get frustrated and you will ask for some help, and someone tells you to shut up and that you suck. You reply jokingly like, okay bro, says the guy 1-4. Ur trash. And boom. Ur muted for calling him trash.

Not all shit talking is "toxic" it's just shit talk. And asking players to not shit talk is... overly protective imo.

And I know... I know... don't say bad or mean things to people.... but again, I think the system is OVERLY protective.

So when people say omeda is being woke. It's not always related to being protective of ethnic people or sexuality/gender subjects. It's literally like... the game doesn't even let u joke half the time. Or just give a cheeky response/comment.

It's basically to a point where I simply don't talk in the game anymore because I understand that I'm a pretty snarky guy and usually I will say 1 snarky thing and I'm immediately chat banned for the rest of that particular game. So even tho I find it funny, the a.i. has gotta protect those fee fees.

I use to enjoy getting into a lobby duo with my friend on voice comms and as a joke I'd tell the chat. Yo, THIS guy sucks!!! And obviously I'm joking and just getting a reaction outta my team. But then my friend will reply talking shit back. Like we are putting on a little show in the chat during draft for fun. Then boom, chat banned. Lol.

I'm not complaining or whining. But I do agree that it can be a bit strict at times.

But I stopped caring. I get it. Don't call people bad, trash, don't tell them they suck. Don't tell them to shut up.... whatever. Gotta be forced to be nice 24/7 around here.

[upbeat bolt]

Not everyone interprets you as having a joke. so it doesn't matter what your intention is. always err on the side of caution. I say this every time but, freedom of speech isn't freedom of consequence. I don't believe the AI is overly protective - 9/10 times. Its always following someone who's been saying bad shit - trust me ive seen the logs from when people come here and complain - its almost every single time been an earned mute.

theres nothing "woke" about trying to curb people being shitty to other people.

[cold gorge]

Whatever u say boss! 🫡

[upbeat bolt]

its not even about protecting feelings, its just... people say fucking dumb shit lol

Literally had a guy in here complaining he got chat muted, he was literally sending death threats

[cold gorge]

Lmao. I totally get it. That's why I'm not gonna even pretend to try and argue the point.

I just wanted to give my own personal take on the subject for the sake of yapping

Like it would be crazy to try and defend this when the optics will look like "let us be mean and toxic to one another" when that's not really what I'm trying to get it. But that's totally what it will look like.

I'm pretty sure, one time I was talking to a guy and I asked him to use Sentry and not wards. He was like nah Sentry is had. I said aren you trolling. And trolling got censored. So I was confused and kept trying to say it. And i got chat banned.

So stuff like this just generally makes chatting unenjoyable. Knowing it's like grandma is always watching and saying if u ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. And that's a nice and good thing. But people aren't always like that. It's not natural. We can stride to be perfect. But it's not gonna happen. Knowing I can't be my tongue-and-cheek snarky trolly self. I just leave chat on off half the time.

I leave it on off. Cause I know someone is gonna say some stupid shit to me. And I'll troll in my response back. And I'll get banned for it. Lol. Again, I'm not complaining at all.

[final coral]

I always get chat ban if I mention
Cuntess

Like
"Kill cuntess"

[true loom]

Because you’re spelling it wrong 😭

[final coral]

Yup in a team fights sure and mostly on console where it's hard to type
ND HAS AUTO CORRECTOR 🙃

At least my team understood the assignment

Me: can u guys pls kill cuntess
Team: ok
Me: you are muted from chatting.
Unable to send message.

[cold burrow]

u can type count instead

instead of a word that you know will get you muted

[tawdry pecan]

Paladins has little to no automatic chat filter
And the things that get said to me and others in chat is insane
which goes to show that if people have the opportunity to, they will be toxic and say these absurd things
so im all for harsh ai chat bans, and even chat banning for being toxic or flaming teammates
makes gaming so much more enjoyable

[idle adder]

blows my mind people would rather have an ai ruin peoples freedom of speech rather than just mute.

cant imagine what these kids do in real life

[final coral]

No need it I already uninstall the game

[cold burrow]

congrats 🎉

[cold gorge]

This is my sentiment. I guess I'm just a boomer. But in my 24 years of online gaming. If someone said something toxic to me. And I didn't have the energy to clap back. I'd just hit the mute button. Not run away and quit / afk or cry about it.

But don't get me wrong. When it comes to things like racism, homophobia, bigotry. I'm fine with certain key words being censored and chat muted. But a lot of the rest. Is like... I don't need this many guard rails. I can take care of myself. I promise it won't ruin my gaming experience. I know how to use the mute button. I'm not gonna uninstall cause someone called me trash. But I guess kids now a days get called trash and will literally just afk or uninstall.

[real berry]

This doesn't make any sense to me.

If it's not about protecting people's feelings.....then what is it about?

You say it's for people saying dumb s***, but in reality, you're worried about that same comment affecting the feelings of others. If no one got offended, there would be no reason for a chat filter. It's really that simple. Being offended is a choice.

It's all about feelings.

I would agree that you an take a hard stance on certain words, fine.

I also have just resorted to not communicating with others in game. Can't defend myself cause I'll get chat restricted for it. So I just let ppl flame and see them next game ig.

You can censor all you want, but to try and say it's not about feelings is kind of obtuse.

[rocky egret]

Me typing "hoe dan" in an all Dutch team and the game thinking im saying something else then "how"

[tawdry pecan]

muting people is a bandage solution
you stop them saying more things to you that affects you

ai mutes stop the message being sent, and prevents them from saying more of those types of msgs

[real berry]

Muting people leaves the decision to the player, AI muting is handholding.

What if I don't want the AI to mute people who trash talk me?

[tawdry pecan]

then you do you
im sure theres people online you can pay to do that or sm like that if thats what u want
but the vast, vast majority of people dont

[real berry]

See but that's just it, I can't turn AI off for me. So instead I get the AI helicopter parent.

To say muting is a bandaid is crazy imo. That doesn't hold water.

I don't enjoy getting trash talked, but I sure don't need an AI to keep me from it either.

[tawdry pecan]

it is. it happens after the event happens. its a reactionary thing to do, so yes it is.
if you dont enjoy getting trash talked, why would u want it to happen? its meant to be a game, which is fun and you enjoy playing

[real berry]

Are you saying AI is reactionary or muting is? Cause to me they bother are. Just one you get a say in , and the other you don't

The high of getting trash talked early on in the game, and then 1v9ing it is a high point. A competitive game is not 100% fun. That's what creative modes are for. Competitive games are for being competitive. Mental is part of the game

[tawdry pecan]

Im saying muting is reactionary. it happens after they say whatever they say, and you still have to see it before you mute them.
And that is an..interesting reason to want to be trash talked

[real berry]

If you want to be good at anything in any competitive environment, you're going to have to learn to handle your emotions. Handholding is just going to make it worse in the grand scheme of things.

Any competitive person who is going to be good at something has to overcome the haters, doesn't matter realm of game or sport. The mental aspect of the game isjust as important as the mechanical or macro.

Ai is also reactionary, won't take into effect until after something bad is said. I suppose the difference is that you don't see it first. Just a perspective thing. Which is why I call it handholding.

[tawdry pecan]

and then what about the casual players? which the majority of the playerbase is made up of
they want to enjoy a game without someone typing slurs at them
and wouldnt want to see them at all so muting manually isnt enough
ima be real with you, idc what u think is hand holding. it is important to have a fun environment first and foremost

[cold gorge]

I know what I'm about to say is probably stupid. And I'm probably just wrong. But...
There are a lot of things I don't want to happen to me in life, that will simply happen to me. If my parents protect me from all the things, it makes me weak, and not prepared for anything. So it's not that I necessarily constantly want people to trash talk me or others. But receiving it does help you prepare and build thick skin. Idk if that makes sense. You can't protect people from everything.

[real berry]

You can censor slurs without getting rid of everything else. I've already conceded to certain words and phrases getting censored.

Lol you trying to say you weren't being real before? Cause that's essentially what the AI is doing for you anyways I suppose.

At it's core, Pred and all mobas are competitive games. Casual or not, doesn't dilute that.

[cold gorge]

Why do they default to "its only slurs being muted"

Lmao

[tawdry pecan]

That is true
but thats the issue, why would people that have to deal with shit in their day to day life, be forced to deal with the same/similar shit in games, which for many people is their escape

[real berry]

Cause it's the one most people agree on.

I do as well

[tawdry pecan]

it is an extreme example that would be a reality if you removed ai bans, like they suggested

[cold gorge]

Because some people's way of escaping is also raging on a keyboard when their team is bad.

[real berry]

It's when that argument is then used to censor everything else is where we get into parenting territory

[cold gorge]

Helicopter parenting

[real berry]

It's a tactic used all the time in the real world

all the time

[tawdry pecan]

if being a keyboard warrior is your way of escaping, then idk what to tell you, youre just not a nice person tbh and dont deserve my sympathy

[real berry]

there we go, full circle, back to the ad hominems, almost like they are what they need protection from....... 😛

[cold gorge]

For sure. But it doesn't change the reality that rage is a form of outlet for many

[olive wigeon]

It's not an acceptable one, hard stop

[cold gorge]

I said for sure. But I think in general, rage is an acceptable outlet. Hard stop. It's why rage rooms exist.

[olive wigeon]

Nope, not when directed at others

[cold gorge]

Yeah, that's why I said "for sure"

But I do feel like this is digressing from the main subject and we're getting into philosophical theories about outlets.

[olive wigeon]

The chat AI takes into account a player's history when making any assessments, if you've got a history of being a not-chill person the system is going to shut you down.

The main subject is this ^

[cold gorge]

Yeah and I think that's amazing. That it's able to reflect on your history of text and make an assessment immediately on you.

[olive wigeon]

It did not mute on a single message. This was the third such message, in a row

Ain't nobody got no time for that

[cold gorge]

I get muted the moment I call someone trash, just once. XD

But I can get called bad first:p

[real berry]

You're not allowed to defend yourself or sling mud back.

you're supposed to let the AI do it for you

[cold gorge]

I get called bad all the time. Then the 1 moment I respond with "shut up, ur trash" I'm the muted one hahaha

[tawdry pecan]

why stoop to their level

[olive wigeon]

I literally can't find any mutes in your history, you sure?

[cold gorge]

100%

Happens ALL the time

[olive wigeon]

Uhhh, do you use a different account name?

[cold gorge]

Negative

Crazitomali

[olive wigeon]

Weird 🤷‍♂️

[cold gorge]

Lmao!

I simply don't exist ig

Rofl!!!!

Aye ill take it tho. Ain't got no dirt on me!

[real berry]

Why not? If it's the level they want to communicate in?

I'm not saying you have to all the time. But having the choice too would be nice.

[cold gorge]

I dunno guys. Like I'm personally on omedas team on this subject. And I like the A.I. it's just sometimes I feel like. It's holding our hands and being our parents. But that's fine. I really don't care all that much.

I think the A.I. is fine. Generally speaking

[tawdry pecan]

then dont communicate with them

[cold gorge]

Like surely it does more good than "bad"

I think some of this boils down to a philosophy of America vs EU lifestyles and expectations of feee speech. And again, this is a private company so none of that really matters cause their policy trumps all.

Keyword "some"

[real berry]

Hence this is your whole stance. If it's not butterflies and rainbows and manufactured happiness, don't interact.

It's why you shied away from Pred being a competitive game at it's core.

[tawdry pecan]

i think they said it has a 99% correct ban rate

[ruby dust]

People really be calling "you're bad" communication. No. Communicating with your team is debating the compo, asking for what items to build, etc.. Calling someone out because you are upset isnt communication. Period.

[tawdry pecan]

games are manufactured
and theyre fun and make you happy
so yes i am
why would i willingly play a game that doesnt make me happy

[cold gorge]

I think context matters. If someone doesn't get Sentry and refused to get it. And I'm like "omg bro ur so bad" kinda joking. That IS criticism and communication.

[tawdry pecan]

the criticism and communication is telling them to get sentry
the bit after is toxic

[real berry]

How to miss the point entirely.......

But also alludes to the idea you're probably not a competitive person.

Which is fine

but this is still a competitive game

[cold gorge]

Is saying "ur bad" actually toxic? Or are we overly using this term?

[ruby dust]

Fair but this is a specific scenario TBH. We all know why this guy got chat banned lol But i dont think ud get chat banned for your scenario since it would require someone to report you anyways

[cold gorge]

For sure. I just wanted to point of the nuisance in a lot of this

Ur completely right thi

Tho

[ruby dust]

You can get chat banned without having a player to report you?

[real berry]

100%

[cold gorge]

Ye

[ruby dust]

Oh I get it now

[tawdry pecan]

it is neither constructive criticism nor communication relevant to the game
maybe not toxic but its neither of those things

[cold gorge]

It may not be constructive but it is criticism.

[tawdry pecan]

telling them theyre bad wont help them improve
so whats the point of saying it

[real berry]

It's relavant to the game. As being bad affects the current game I'm in. 😛

[real berry]

Ideally? To cause self reflection

[cold gorge]

Like I don't need to stop what I'm doing. Explain why not using sentry(in our exampel) is bad. I'm just gonna say ur bad. And move along. They can learn themselves later when we lose.

[real berry]

but everyone so used to being coddled they just get mad

[cold gorge]

Hahahaha. I'll dm you.

[cold burrow]

i still don’t get why you wanna call someone bad so far

[tawdry pecan]

realistically? they get tilted and play worse and u type more and everyone has their game experience ruined

[cold burrow]

Im sure everyone else on the team knows who cares

[tawdry pecan]

yeah you right
were coddled cos we want a fun gaming experience

disgraceful from us tbh

[olive wigeon]

Counterpoint: You know what coddled is? Pretending there ain't consequences to bein a jerk.

Just how it is

Don't be a jerk and you won't get thrown out of the party

[real berry]

Oh, but I didn't say that now did I?

Consenquences are real

[tawdry pecan]

but u dont want there to be any for being toxic etc?

[real berry]

and if you go 0/10 in lane, you are by definition bad

I've done it

and im fine with saying, I'm bad

[zealous shell]

Are you by definition bad? MOBAs are complex things.

[real berry]

In the context of that game? yes

[cold gorge]

Sometimes when someone calls me bad. I own it. I say I'm sorry I'm playing like ass rn. It's not my best. And a lot of times. They actually become nice to me and work together better.

I let me ego go.

[zealous shell]

No. No sparrow players will be taken seriously

[cold gorge]

Hey now! We gotta stay on subject!

[cold burrow]

Ill allow it

[tawdry pecan]

based

[final coral]

https://youtu.be/8kRaIUtsceI?si=nd5TNcCO9oTPsXQz

[cold gorge]

Bruh tldw?

[idle adder]

pretty much all of Pred's employees are coddle raised.

[cold gorge]

Uncalled fir and off subject bro

Pls delet

I lwokey can't believe u said that tbh

[real berry]

At this point I can only believe you choose to miss my entire point altogether.

Slurs/racism/swearing even - objectively bad

Toxicity - severity is totally perspective, imo what is in place is too strong, needs to be loosened, not altogether gotten rid of

[cold gorge]

Delet it before u get banned!

[idle adder]

been here since the start, all of the constructive feedback was taken poorly

[olive wigeon]

Very cute

[real berry]

Jshredz isn't coddled, he be explaining MMR, he grinds that crap, an endless war

[cold gorge]

Let's just stay on topic guys.

A thing on subject. I'm someone who doesn't think people should be mean towards one another verbally in this game. But to disallow it.... ehhh... I believe in yin an yang. Sometimes the game does let you be rude to someone and when u take it too far. It mutes you. I think it does a good enough job.

Like i know. I'll get on my high horse and the game will mute me. And deep down... I know I be going too far. But sometimes I don't think I do. But maybe I do.

[solar shard]

So funny seeing how the months and even a year have passed, and we are having literally the same discussion with nothing having changed in all this time

[idle adder]

its just the freedom of speech side of it, i dislike racist n bigotry.... ill always mute that shit.... but someone just expressing in game feelings is w/e, friends fight brothers fight

[cold gorge]

What do you mean? Changed in what way?

[cold gorge]

#1294108240170192927 message

My response ^

[solar shard]

Changed in the way of fixing the problem that people have complained about over and over again, the AI mtting people in situations that should not mute them

[real berry]

It purely a subjective thing tbh. Omeda has drawn a line in the sand, and you got to live with it a move on

[solar shard]

Well, I will let here some examples of the AI doing bad its work and go to play some Sparking Zero matches, as I already said all I had to say about this topic

[tawdry pecan]

99% of the time, the mute has been justified
and those are actual stats
theyve said that 99% of mutes are correct

[real berry]

AI will never be perfect, and the job would be too big to do by hand

[olive wigeon]

People are never perfect either

[olive wigeon]

Even if we had 10,000 people doing nothing but reading live chat logs all day long, there would still be disagreements

It's often just a matter of opinion and goal

[cold gorge]

It takes me back to my anecdote. Someone called me bad. I responded ur trash. I get the mute. They don't. So what's next. We ban the word "bad" or something? Obviously the answer is to not engage with them. But we're all human. We all get triggered.

[cold gorge]

Goes to my example. U can't say "trash"

[real berry]

I agree 100%

[cold burrow]

I don’t get triggered

🧘

[solar shard]

My examples are at the beginning of the match so people can't come with the excuse that before saying that you said something bad and you are hidding it

Which happens every time that you try to talk about this topic

[real berry]

I think to goes from game to game as well, so it's like an account standing thing. But I could be wrong

[olive wigeon]

You're not

[real berry]

So in that case. The AI is quick to shut you down, cause it doesn't like your previous interactions.

[cold gorge]

Would you happen to know the... idk the adjective... but the timer? Does it recall ur last 30 days of messages. Or last 50k words? What's the reset on it?

I can understand if that's not to be disclosed.

[real berry]

I'll never be nitpicky with it. And I don't have any bones to pick with Omeda. It's a nuanced issue.

It's fun to talk about though

[cold gorge]

Yeah for sure echo.

I know I might sound like a hater. But I do think generally speaking. It's good enough.

I just... gotta stop calling people trash. Hahahahha

[real berry]

it would help it they weren't playing like it in my game......

its almost, like a consequence 😛

[cold gorge]

Yeah I mean. When I'm jg. And my offlane dies for the 6th time. And he's begging for help. And I'm like dude. Just play safe. Stop pushing past river without wards, shoving tower. Then he tilts on me. I gotta not say "shut up, ur trash". That's my default lmao. And I ALWAYS get muted the moment I use "trash"

[cold burrow]

Just say shut up

[final coral]

Instead of muting players
What about filtering
Like Overwatch’s system chat when u type "gg ez"

[real berry]

This is infinitely more funny

[cold gorge]

It's just not who I am. If someone wanna clap at me. I'm gonna clap back, harder. Is it a character flaw. Absolutely. But atleast I'm aware. And I do know when to not respond depending on certain situations. But in a online video game. I have a book of 101 shit talk phrases. So when someone tilts on me. Imma tilt back, harder. I honestly find it enjoyable. That's my red flag toxic trait 😉

And I'm fine being the bad guy, for roasting ur ass 100x harder than u did me. I'll take the mute.

[cold burrow]

Im not reading all that sorry

[cold gorge]

I'm blocking you!

[olive wigeon]

Partly your whole history, partly the last few months, partly the current play session of games, partly the current game

Different mixes

[cold gorge]

That's dope!!!

[solar shard]

From the #🥪│off-topic message channel 💀 💀 💀 💀

[nocturne barn]

Just scrolled up and saw that the CEO is tracking these weird cases where AI is missing context.

I am glad to see Omeda willing to continue to tweak the system.

[solar shard]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but this is literally the same thing people have been complaining about for like a year now

[true loom]

And in 99% of cases their chat history has been very bad thus they are muted

[solar shard]

That is what they say with no evidence

If for them you saying black is a reason of ban, then that ban will fill inside of the 99%of the cases that are correct

[true loom]

But I’ve seen the evidence. And im saying it

[solar shard]

If for them saying "gank them at minute 2 and they are fucked" is a valid reason to ban, then again that enters in the 99% and they count it as valid

[true loom]

The reason why someone may be muted for saying the word black is because their chat history is extremely toxic. Thus the AI is stricter with muting them

[solar shard]

If everytime someone shows a evidence of the chat mute not working correctly, Omeda says "nah, that ban was valid", then it will always valid no matter what

[nocturne barn]

Nope not sarcastic. This is a system that is going to continue to need to be refined at the edges.

These edge cases help improve the system. But they are also outliers.

[solar shard]

These edges has been here since they released the system one year ago, and it seems that they didn't improved it in any way, and everytime someone complains they say that the system is working perfectly well and that there is nothing to improve or fix

Lets see if this time its different

[true loom]

If someone constantly steals everyday. Then one day they have something in their pocket and claim they bought it. Would you believe them? No. The AI works in the same way. Majority of the time these harsher mutes last one game

The majority of people complaining about these chat mutes have a terrible chat history. If you have good chat history these mutes don’t happen

[solar shard]

Then one day they have something in their pocket and claim they bought it

And then you judge and sentence them by something that they did not did that time

Great system, working as expected

[true loom]

I mean the biggest example of this is the boy who cried wolf

[solar shard]

As I always say, mute people when they deserve it, don't mute people when they have said nothing that time to deserve it

[nocturne barn]

TLDR; the AI tool will never be 'perfect'

My expectation is there will always be edge cases. That is because I know AI can only do so much and there are context and emotional intelligence aspects that only a human can analyze.

Regarding OP. CEO said "u r bad" alone should not be a trigger for AI. I trust that feedback was shared with the vendor. And it gives me confidence that as we come across more edge cases, because we always because AI is not a panacea, that Omeda will continue to refine.

[solar shard]

That its why the AI should only be used for what can do well, if its going to have this cases that happens all the time and we see them reported all the time, then use the AI in other way and try to take profit of it in ways that doesn't create cases where it malfunctions and mute people when they are just having a cool conversation with their team

[true loom]

We see them reported all the time but you don’t know the oersons chat history

[nocturne barn]

I'd be curious to know what the % of false positives for the AI tool

[true loom]

It’s 2%

[nocturne barn]

Oh that's really good IMO

[solar shard]

As you can see here in the Howi clip #1294108240170192927 message where I show the discord, you can read that the cases that im using to do the test are things that should not trigger the AI

And they do

[true loom]

Yep…

[true loom]

They’ve stated a couple of times that game mutes are much stricter than the longer ones to get rid of toxic chat quickly

[true loom]

This was also about a year ago? Iirc. The AI has only improved since then

[solar shard]

And as im saying the game mutes don't work correctly and activate when they should not

I said this 1 year ago, people said this 1 year ago, and we are still in the same spot with the AI mutes working bad as it did when it got released

[true loom]

2% false positive isn’t bad

** Mistaken multi-match suspensions continue to be extremely rare. For example, only about 2% of the longer chat suspensions we’ve checked were applied incorrectly. The model does use a lower threshold (with a slightly lower accuracy) for a single-match mute to allow for quicker shutdown of potentially toxic messages, but those short mutes are not part of the longer escalating suspensions and do not have any associated account penalties.**

[solar shard]

Again, that is what Omeda says, with no evidence or proves, if they say that someone saying fuck and getting muted is correct then that AI working bad would be count as the AI working well

[true loom]

The evidence is there ^

[true loom]

That’s your opinion tho

It’s your opinion that a mute for swearing is bad

[solar shard]

For example, only about 2% of the longer chat suspensions we’ve checked were applied incorrectly.

That is not even what im talking about

[nocturne barn]

Again, I am never going to expect a perfect tool.

It's cool you want a 0% false positives. It's a lofty goal. Maybe one Omeda should strive for as well.

But as a customer, I want to convey a little pragmatism around the limitations of AI and why they exist.

2% for me is a very good sign that the tool is working to address toxicity. And there is the manual review process to appeal in the unfortunate edge cases.

[solar shard]

Im talking about the chat mutes

As the examples that I show

the longer chat suspensions

[true loom]

Did u read the second part of what I sent 🙂

[solar shard]

So you are showing me "evidence" when its literally about other thing

[true loom]

No

Read it all

🙂

[solar shard]

Yeah, and the second part is about other thing and its not counted on the 98% - 2%

They mention it separately

[true loom]

Yes and it explains what I told you already

And why there is a lower accuracy

And why they’ve chosen to do it that way

Which is what I’ve explained to you already

[solar shard]

Yeah, and its not working correctly and mute people when it should not do it

[true loom]

In your opinion

[solar shard]

If they are going to use AI for something, use it when you can assure that is going to work correctly

[solar shard]

This mute is deserved?

[true loom]

We don’t know the full story do we

I’ve explained to you that majority of the time these people have a bad chat history

And thus the AI is stricter with them

[solar shard]

Yeah sure that this dude was a complete toxic the 20 seconds that the role draft lasted, and then he said that thing and deserved to be butted

[nocturne barn]

Eh, idk if we are going to change our perspectives on this and that is ok. My comments were more meant for Omeda anyways to let the know at least one of these customers appreciates the AI tool and refinement approach.

Thanks for the convo.

[true loom]

It takes your whole chat history into account….

[woeful shoal]

Hey guys, did we even get the guys IGN… :/

[true loom]

We did not

[solar shard]

But he is getting mited literally there. He did something there to deserve to be muted?

If he did somethign before he should have been muted/banned before

If he wasn't why mute him there?

[true loom]

Bro the mute takes your whole chat history into account

Maybe he just got off a mute

And then said that

And got muted again

Your status doesn’t get reset after you get muted

[viscid cloud]

We have clear evidence

[solar shard]

And he deserves to get muted for saying that?

[viscid cloud]

We cannot share it because of privacy though but the evidence is clear

[true loom]

Yes, if his chat history is bad

[woeful shoal]

Ik I asked generally but did you obtain this users IGN or are people just kinda complaining into the wind atm?

[solar shard]

He said to let the carry role to the dude that is called black. Explain to me what part of that deserves to get a mute?

[viscid cloud]

In cases I investigated I requested usernames, if they shared it I then checked the accounts personally and in almost all instances found the ban to be justified

[solar shard]

So talking about the example above, what part of that deserves him to be muted?

[viscid cloud]

I offered to check

[woeful shoal]

Yea, I know I seen em lol. I meant the original poster for this one, I wasn’t sure if maybe there was a DM instead of them placing their ign in the thread

[viscid cloud]

I did not receive a reply that I could see

[true loom]

Because the AI doesn’t take account names afaik. Ace can correct me if I’m wrong. So remove the users names and you can clearly see that the mute was justified

Especially if they have a toxic chat history

[viscid cloud]

He did not reach out to me or reply to me since, i could have missed it but I cannot see anything

[solar shard]

The world is black, its a colour and its the name of that user, the AI should not mute peopel for saying that

[true loom]

If you think that. You’re very naive

[woeful shoal]

I was hoping maybe he did, I keep seeing so many messages of people complaining about the AI and meanwhile the original person hasn’t even said anything 😭

[solar shard]

Really, are you being serious, are you reading the same text as me and thinking that person deserves to be muted for saying if they can let the role to that person?

[true loom]

It’s very clear that that phrase, disregarding usernames, can be seen as racist

[viscid cloud]

You're looking at a tiny portion of what was written

[woeful shoal]

also in regards to Godtine, it’s likely the part before the word black

I can see an AI easily flagging that

[solar shard]

The game started there, that is before the role selection, which is like 10-20 seconds when the lobby starts

[true loom]

^

[viscid cloud]

Anyways, if the original user shares his names we can investigate

otherwise I think this is going off-topic

Once he shares (if he wants) then we can investigate, anything else is pure speculation so lets end it here

[solar shard]

I can see the AI not working correctly and unjustifiably muting that dude, but that doesn't means that the AI is working correctyl, all the opposite

[solar shard]

Im talking about other example that I saw today shared on pred discord, I don't think that showing more examples of the AI not working correctly is off-topic

And this is a better example because its literally at the beggining of the role selection draft

[viscid cloud]

We offered to look into it, the user hasn't replied. Nothing more to be said

You can setup your own thread, with your own screenshots and we can investigate it

[solar shard]

Litrerally no one could have said anything before that, because there isn't anything before the role selection moment

[viscid cloud]

Again, i'm not going to keep speculating. Share screenshots and we will look into it

[solar shard]

The screenshot we were talking about in the recent conversation is this one

[viscid cloud]

I'm not sharing information about another to you, either share your own or have the user themselves report it

[solar shard]

You don't have to share information, there is the example, you can look at it internally

See that things like that happens, even if he have a bad chat story the AI should not mute people for things like that

As simple as that, mute peopel when they deserve it, don't mute people when they said nothing to get muted

[true loom]

“Poor black” is definitely something the AI is going to flag regardless

[solar shard]

Why?

That doesn't seems to work correctly

[cold burrow]

because it’s like calling black people, the race poor. If you put a ‘the’ in front of the sentence

« The poor black »

Makes it more obvious why that can be used in a negative light. But if someone just doesn’t put that there it can still be used negatively. Which again is going into something slightly off topic but it can be used and is used as a racist comment in some ways

[nocturne barn]

I want to but honestly don't have the bandwidth.

I'll just say that in Western and US contexts the phrase "poor Black" is going to cause people's skin to crawl.

[viscid cloud]

Will do

[solar shard]

But that is not the case there, then its just the AI seeing something, taking it as negative and taking actions on it when it's not even to understand the context of the meaning of the sentence

The AI have a power to apply it and affect the players, when it doesn't have the correct tool to interpretthe situations

That is what its wrong with this system

Use the AI to flag situations and then let a person decide if the situation deserves a mute or not, but don't the AI the power to do something when its not able to even comprehend what is happening

[nocturne barn]

That isn't feasible because the purpose of the tool is to immediately mute someone that is being toxic.

Your proposal would subject 4 other people to toxicity for an entire match. And maybe other people until a person reviews.

[solar shard]

And we are seeing how it's working, muting someone when it's just saying let the ADC role to this player

[solar shard]

Luckily we have an amazing mute button that works with an accuracy of 100% and the 100% of times that the person that clicked it wanted to click it

[cold burrow]

the only context is the persons name and nothing else was said. Muting for just that sentence does actually make sense. Unless you want it to start looking at names (which can be horrible and offensive because of steam and its leniency) which would lead to other issues. I do get your point but the mute seems 100% valid here. Idk how long it lasted but I don’t think it’s as much as a problem as the other one

In any case this is going on for too long

[nocturne barn]

As a customer I am comfortable with a small percentage of false-positives. For me, if over 90% of cases are flagged correctly I am happy as a clam.

Just my subjective threshold and comfortability level.

[solar shard]

I do get your point but the mute seems 100% valid here.

No no no, the malfunctioning AI deciding to wrongly muting someone here it is explainable, but the mute here its 100% wrong

The AI failed and did wrong mute, use his powers to be able to mute someone and muted him wrongly

That and your "the mute seems 100% valid here" are 2 completely different things

We can see and understand why the AI failed

But the fact is that the AI failed and applied and wrong mute

[nocturne barn]

@solar shard what is an acceptable level of false positives for you?

[cold burrow]

okay

lol

[solar shard]

Im wrong? Im saying something that is not correct?

[cold burrow]

The person that made the thread didn’t respond when ace asked about checking the account and now this is a whole different discussion that will actually never meet at end so I think we can call it quits here. Ace already said he would look in to stuff

[solar shard]

Don't give powers to do actions to an AI when you can't assure that can understand the context. Because here it doesn't even seems that the AI is doing AI things, seems that is just a dictionary of bad words that is getting triggered when it detect one of those words in the messages

Use the AI for things that can help you, that can make your work easier, that can save you time, but don't give it the power to take actions

[nocturne barn]

So you would want an AI tool at 0% false positives?

[solar shard]

I want the AI to not take actions if it can understand the context

[nocturne barn]

Got it

Have a good one!

[cold gorge]

Can we not censor the word trolling?

[sharp knoll]

im at more than 24h ban for say fangs without a "n" two times in the same match

[true loom]

i mean thats pretty much intended

[sharp knoll]

why?

[true loom]

because the word you said is extremely bad

[final coral]

Man, autocorrect is out to get me! I got chat banned again just because I'm dyslexic and accidentally hit 'n' instead of 'b' when I was trying to say 'bigger.' Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to put those letters so close together?

[tawdry pecan]

In those cases you can likely appeal it
But imo thats not an incorrect ban

[compact quail]

Yo wut?