BAN SYSTEM

[crimson jackal]

Why didn't you fix the banning system? Both teams keep banning the same character, this is ridiculous man. It's so hard to understand that the banning system has to be alternated between teams so that both teams never ban the same character.

[spiral sluice]

According to rgsace its interesting. Although I can't send the actual message because its been archived / deleted

[timid oasis]

Why don't we all stop banning aurora for the time being? She's not even OP.

[sweet viper]

Its either aurora-aurora
Argus-aurora
Argus-argus

Lol

[crimson jackal]

guys have fear of her because the cc

[surreal tiger]

🫡

[timid oasis]

It's aurora- zinx 24/7 here.

[sweet viper]

I also see a lot of aurora-grim. Or gideon even

[frosty oasis]

i only ban aurora to spare ppl the hustle with er wonky and delayed ice slide

[civic cosmos]

Theres nothing to fix
1 team wants this character? The other team wants that character too?

Congrats you both get want you wanted... Want to avoid the risk of banning the same hero? Choose less popular ones

[crimson jackal]

We have few characters in the game and only 2 bans and many times in matches we only have 1 ban because people decide to ban the same characters. This is terrible.

[civic cosmos]

Its your choice, your arguments that influence your team..

[timid oasis]

I understand what ur saying. But one of the purposes of the ban system is to ban 2 different heroes. Not the same 1. It needs to be fixed. In the PCC it doesn't happen this way.

[civic cosmos]

What do you mean the purpose? There are many adaptations of a ban system

The one we currently have in ranked is a "blind ban"
Where it allows for double bans

It comes down to preference, i think with the "limited" amount of heroes in game now theres no need for 2 or 4 hero bans

On a real note, how would you fix it?

Count both sides and top 2 heroes get banned? Could mean 1 team gets to ban 2 heroes of the rival team chooses 5 different ones to ban

Or what
If both sides vote 5 times for aurora, what will be the other ban?

[scarlet river]

this isnt coordinated 5v5 enviornment other games allow the banning of the same character bc of the blind ban system

[timid oasis]

On a real note. Literally implement the draft system as the same as the previously mentioned PCC.

[scarlet river]

the blind ban system saves time during the banning process of each game that gets played

as more heros get added more bans will be added drafts will take longer etc

blind bans reduces the amount of time it takes to get through the drafting phase

[timid oasis]

Oh yes. Because we are worried about extending the game 30 more seconds during draft.

[rancid quarry]

I think it does make sense to not have the same hero banned twice. It seems to me like a error in the code itself.

Realistically speaking you can indeed solve it like this:
Each player on the team has a 20% vote on which hero to ban. Meaning if two people want aurora to be banned it is a 40% chance that the team will ban that hero. You decide on two of each team that won this chance game and then you compare the results to the other team. If both teams number 1 vote is different then those heros will be banned, if both teams number 1 hero is the same you make another 50/50 chance game on what second hero will be banned and the winner gets banned again.
If both the first and the second hero are the same it doesn't matter because then you got 2 heros banned.

This could be a solution.
But if the CEO already stated that it is intended then there is nothing to fix.

[scarlet river]

when they add a second ban per teamn its not an addition 1.5 minutes

[scarlet river]

do you want to spend an additional 1.5 minutes per game

when they add a second ban per team

[timid oasis]

Not per team
Holy shit

[scarlet river]

oops not per team

per game

[timid oasis]

Dude. Literally add ban phase during draft LIKE THEY DO IN PCC

Are you even reading my texts???

Do you watch PCC?

This can't be real rn. Am I being gaslit?

[scarlet river]

no i have no idea what the PCC is i have only competed in it and been on one of the top teams since the begining .....

do you know howw long it takes to do the drafting in PCC

and you want to do that in ranked games

every single game

[timid oasis]

Yeah. Draft IS apart of the game.

Yes. I do.

It's ranked.

[scarlet river]

thats insane

[timid oasis]

Not standard.

[scarlet river]

blind ban is totally fine whwich is why other mobas have adopted it]

there are different stages to the game casual - ranked - comp play

each have different rules

[timid oasis]

Okay bro.

[scarlet river]

ranked should not have the same rules as comp play to save time

[timid oasis]

It's fuckig 30 extra seconds boss

[scarlet river]

its not 30 seconds if they do like the PCC actually

bc they would have to add another ban

[timid oasis]

Jesus christ.....

U guys are sooooo dense.

[scarlet river]

per team

[timid oasis]

I'll explain it very simple.

[scarlet river]

ill explain it very simple there is a reason why the bigger mobas have adapted the Blind ban system such as league of legends and dota 2. It saves a ton of time compared to the draft ban process especially when more bans start getting added. If you do draft ban, the more bans that the game adds, the longer the drafting phase will take

Only the competitive scene does draft ban. The ranked systems do blind ban as a time saver

[timid oasis]

This is an example. So don't take it literally.

1. Team A picks 1st hero
2. Team B bans 1 hero.
3. Team B picks 1st and 2nd hero
4. Team A Bans 1 hero.
5. Team A picks 2nd and 3rd hero.
6. Team B picks 3rd and 4th hero.
7. Team A picks 4th and 5th hero.
8. Team B picks 5th hero.

It's not that hard....

Adds 30 seconds....

[scarlet river]

first off thats not how that works

you did it wrong

you ban before any picks happen

so apparently it is hard

[timid oasis]

This is an EXAMPLE

OF HOW IT CAN BE FIXED

For ranked

Are you dumb????

Did u miss the literal first sentence ????

[scarlet river]

Brother you wwould just start with Ban 1 Ban 2 team 1 pick team 2 picks 2 heros etc

you wouldnt do any picks before a ban

[timid oasis]

Okay that works too!

Let's do that theb.

I said it's an example..Holy shit

[scarlet river]

but again

[timid oasis]

U know what example means???

[scarlet river]

you are asking them

[timid oasis]

Bye

[scarlet river]

to make a change to a system

[timid oasis]

I can't with u

[scarlet river]

that they wwill have to change again

in the future

bc its bad

There are 2 bans, and 40 heros. The odds the same hero gets banned should in theory be pretty loww. However, players get stuck on this repetitive cycle of banning the same heros without experimenting or thinking about what is actually smart or bad bans

they just default to the same ban every game

they might go against a one trick wriath 5 games in a row and still ban steel

or their offlaner might have first pick and watnt to play steel yet they ban steel

it makes no sense

just default steel with no thinking

or default aurora

even tho aurora almost never gets banned in my games

[rancid quarry]

Not a bad solution actually.

You could also make the bans happen prior to the teams chosing any hero. Give team A 15 seconds to ban one hero and team B 15 seconds to ban a hero. And after that you could chose heros the regular way. That would also only add 30 seconds.

[timid oasis]

Literally just make the Bans happen before we pick heroes. Poeblem solved.

No need for us to ban at the same time

It's not rocket science.

[scarlet river]

its the standard for mobas

i really have a hard time seeing the issue

stop default baning the same hero every game

and think about it

[timid oasis]

Dude above, who i blocked, is crying about it adding more time to the draft phase. As if it's not a core part of the game. Bro... we are talking about adding 30 more seconds... Holy crap

[scarlet river]

im not crying im explaining why its done this way 😄

[scarlet river]

this seems more like crying i think

😄

the more bans you add the longer the drafting system takes

[rancid quarry]

I mean banning the same hero feels like a error, as I mentioned before.

I feel like it would be better to have two completely different heros banned each game.

[scarlet river]

every moba allows for this

as a time saving standard

matches take 30 minutes

drafting take 5 minutes already

[timid oasis]

It is an error. The argument that everyone does it, so its fine. Is so stupid.

[scarlet river]

if we add 30 seconds

[rancid quarry]

Doesn't the ban phase take 30 seconds?
So dividing that into two 15 seconds sections for each team wouldn't increase it. It would distribute the time evenly and we could ban two heros.

[scarlet river]

but as you add more bans it just becomes longer and longer right

people are already asking for 4 bans

[timid oasis]

The games take 30-40mons already and if we can't handle 30 more seconds idk what to say.

Skill issue

[rancid quarry]

But why would you add more bans?
It's two bans, nothing more. We are talking about two. Not 10 or 5. Just two. And we divide the 30 seconds by 2. So we get two 15 second sections we give each team. Meaning in total it would still take 30, like it did before. But we would ban 2 heros, like I think it should be.

[scarlet river]

the more heros that get added into the game the more bans that will be added

[timid oasis]

He's moving goal post it sounds like cause our ideas make TOO much sense.

[scarlet river]

in ranked mode

it wont stay 1 ban per team forever

[rancid quarry]

Yeah but later you can think about another system. Currently the game has only 40 heros (or so). Not 150 or 120 like other MOBAs.

[scarlet river]

right those games allow for 10 bans at 120

we would be at 40 heros

4 bans

im just saying people have already been asking for an extra ban per team

if we start making drafting longer then start adding more phases bc we are adding more bans

its just more time

it all adds up

[rancid quarry]

I mean even if you say we need to increase the time with the system we propose, even with the current system at some point they need to increase the time.

If they want to ban 4 heros they would need two intervals if they keep this system meaning they now need 1 minute. And if we do the system we propose it would also then take 1 minute but with fixing the error (if it is a error).

[scarlet river]

especially with the amount of dodges that happen in the drafting phase

[scarlet river]

they would not need to increase the time, they would take the highest 2 voted champions

if 2 champions have 2 votes those 2 get bans

just like dota 2 does

[rancid quarry]

You could do the same with the system that was explained above. Let team A ban two heros and team B two heros in 15 seconds each. And you would also still be at 30 seconds.

Look, we can talk the whole time about it, but I still believe it to be a error. It seems wrong to me that such a thing would happen. But if the CEO says it is suppose to be that way then that is their vision.

[timid oasis]

Some people like dumb shit.

[civic cosmos]

Error is such a weird way to name it tho
If you dont agree at least say its a Mistake in your opinion

But yeah its pretty useless to argue about it since some like it some hate it, no way to please everyone

[timid oasis]

"Feels like an error"

feels

[rancid quarry]

To me it is not a "mistake in my opinion" since I see it as a error. How can I be wrong on my own opinion. It is my opinion.

And I already stated that there is nothing to do if they said it is intended.

[scarlet river]

Im just saying their goal is to follow along the league of legends route. League researched the best way to do draft and this is an article on the research they found.

They go through all the ways to do draft and found Blind was the best. Omeda is just following in the already existing research. Why reinvent the wheel https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/dev-10-bans-arrives/

obviously its catered to 10 bans bc thats where league is at the time. Use your best judgement to see why Omeda would be taking a similar approach

[civic cosmos]

Error is a deviation from accuracy or correctness
If the game was AI made sure
But since there is a human aspect.. Using the term "error" fits poorly

[civic cosmos]

Interesting theres actual research on this!

[rancid quarry]

Thanks for the information. I will definitely read up on it.
Thanks for sharing it.

[rancid quarry]

Are you suggesting that humans can not make errors?
The term "error" can be used here if the underlying system was not programmed in such a way that one hero could be banned twice.
This would mean there is a error. If it was not intended and if it is happening due to a human missing certain variables or functions then it would be a error.
That is why I consider it a error.

Aside from that I struggle to see how having a argument over terminology benefits this thread.

[scarlet river]

at the bottom of the page make sure to click on each draft version as it goes into pros and cons of each.

[civic cosmos]

If its human decisions its not an error
If it is an unintentional Mistake then you can use it with humans

[scarlet river]

Btw I am not totally against changing the ban system just based on the research I have read (this article summarizes it pretty well). It seems to be the case in the long haul it will save them time to do blind bans from the start since it seems to be the best meathod.

[timid oasis]

I love arguing the minutia instead of the point!

[scarlet river]

I agrue the point, you dont like it call me dumb, i show research you say im arguing the minutia instead of the point...

idk what you want my guy

just showing you the reasons why a company may decide to go this route

[polar eagle]

I think it would be relatively simple to keep the current system we have but add 30 more seconds to the ban phase and then give each player two ban choices. Two bans per team based on the top choices

[misty hedge]

I would make a second blind ban phase on top of the first one after both teams picked 2 or 3 Heroes.

Why?
The first ban would play out the same as now and would only get used to banning the current "OP" Hero.

The second ban could then get used strategically to target the last 2-3 open roles.

The extra time would be only 30s or how long a blind ban takes.

[night surge]

So easy to fix this. Give 20sec to dawn team to do the 1st ban and show to both parties who is banned. Then give 20sec to dusk team to do the 2nd ban.

[raven fractal]

The game could automatically select the next most voted hero if a mirror ban was detected. If more than one hero have the same number of votes, chose randomly as it already does. Problem solved.

team 1 bans:
hero1
hero1
hero2
hero2
hero3

team 2 bans
hero1
hero2
hero2
hero3
hero3

most picked hero of team 1 is a draw, randomly select one, e.g., hero2
most picked hero of team 2 is a draw, randomly select one, e.g., hero2

mirror ban detected, select the next most voted hero. None, hero1 and hero3 have same number of votes, randomly select one, e.g., hero1

it couldn't he easier than that without complicated processes, procedures, or scientific math.

[burnt solar]

It's because you're a crazy fool!

[white quartz]

One reason bans feel bad now is no one is doing game theory.

In my rank range the probability that Aurora, Zinx, and Skylar are going to be banned is very high.

I actively try to vote for someone else anticipating one of the big three will be banned.

[misty hedge]

Cause we don't know the enemy draft order. The risk is just too high if you are not the first pick.

In my games my team always goes for a different ban if i'm first and i tell them i will play that Hero.

[last dirge]

Yeah random draft order makes the banning phase in itself too much relying on it. If your carry is third pick in your team you need to ban skylar, because she is probably broken. Chances are just too high that the opponents can pick the broken hero. That results that a team needs to ban the broken hero in 60% of cases. In the other 40% they will ban someone else (probably often are still banning the broken hero), but the opponents will ban the broken hero anyways.

[prisma tusk]

This article is irrelevant if we are talking about 2 bans, as its clearly trying to solve the issues coming from having 10 bans

Sure it makes sense to do this once we get more than 1 ban per team, but i dont think we will be having that in the near future.

Currently if there is a broken hero dusk team will always have to ban that hero while dawn might get the chance to first pick it instead of banning it.
Dawn should have to ban first, then dusk and then it should let players pick as usual.
Adds 30 seconds top to the draft, makes it a lot fairer. I was gonna do statistics myself which show dusk vs dawn WR in ranked compared to Casual and see how much this affects gameplay, cuz i cant imagine it being a slim impact

[scenic swift]

I wouldnt have an issue with blind bans if the odds werent so high for the same hero to get banned. Then it feels the other ban got wasted in a sense. Since you don't know who you're playing against each game, you're going to ban the most meta OP Heroes at the time which limits the pool down to a select few. Meaning your chances of banning the same hero goes way up. I agree though with Crazzyfool that doing a PCC style draft would take too long for ranked. However would I would just do is have Team A do their two bans immediately, then move to Team B to do their two bans immediately

then draft as normal

[prisma tusk]

The winrate for Dawn is 50.683% in standard mode while its 51.14% in ranked

only difference between those 2 modes is how draft works

Thats significant

Used all matches for ranked and standard from the last 2 months if anyone is wondering about the data

[last dirge]

There would also be the difference of better players in ranked, because of the level 20 restriction, stronger players mainly playing ranked and people trolling in standard. So that the players in ranked could capitalize on their advantage better, but don't know how much of an effect that would be and in which direction.
Would think that it will effect standard to go more 50/50.

[prisma tusk]

Yeah i thought about this aswell, that they would be focusing more on objectives etc, there for the Map Bias could be part of that 0.5 %

or reference the Winrate for Dawn (there was no ranked yet) 8 months ago (for the 4 months before that) was 50.66%
so it

[last dirge]

Yes but draft should probably still has an effect. With no mirror picks and bans, just the question how high that effect is.

[prisma tusk]

I would argue that 0.5% is plausible

might be a bit less, but mostly from draft

[scarlet river]

Yep as I stated you have to adapt your thought process a little bit and apply it to our current situation but the pros and cons still apply. People already want 4 bans which means the more bans you add the longer drafting will take.

If we add a time to do a snake or captains style ban system it still adds time to the drafting phase. When more bans get added more time gets added per ban cycle

Amoung the other pros and cons I really don’t think blind draft is that big of an issue

[prisma tusk]

I dunno, the Pros and Cons absolutely dont apply for a 2 Ban system, which uses Votes

[scarlet river]

Sure the pros aren’t seen as much for 2 bans but you shave to think about when they start adding more bans.

I don’t care if they change the bans to a draft style it but as they start adding more bans it will add more time and with how many dodges already occur it’s going to add a lot of time.

[prisma tusk]

You dont design something thats gonna work in a year from now, if you know it will be shit for this year

Sure you can design it, but you dont use it until you need it

You need something until then

There is no universal Way to everything

[scarlet river]

That’s not true actually, bc it’s not shit right now. When designing something if you know route A end game goal is better then you don’t take it down route b just to complete rework it later. That’s a complete waste of time money and effort.

[scarlet river]

We have something until then and it’s completely fine

There are 40 hero’s and 2 bans 1 per team

Teams really shouldn’t be banning the same hero

It should be pretty unlikely

But the heard mentality of always ban this 1 character sinks in hard so the same thing gets banned every game

Hence why at gold mmr aurora argus is banned all the time and at diamond and paragon those two are NEVER banned

Steel/zinx/sev/wraith/zarus/terra now Skylar etc are banned

[prisma tusk]

If it was a lot of work, i would agree
but its not

[prisma tusk]

its just a 1% difference in WR just from the draft in a Competitive game

[keen helm]

banning the same character is just weird

the easiest solution is one team bans. and then the other

[scenic swift]

this is the best way to do it imo

youre adding maybe like an additional 30 seconds? at mosst

and if you care about 30 seconds

prob shouldnt be queueing then at that time anyways

[scarlet river]

Terrible way to think about it

[scenic swift]

Its no different than a match potentially lasting 30 min vs 31 minutes

In my opinion the whole point of Ranked is to have it be more difficult / challenging than Standard. You're held to a higher standard right. And one of the ways that's done is the banning. When both teams ban the same hero, I feel ripped off

idk

thats just how I feel about it

[scarlet river]

If you add 30 seconds per draft phase sure doesn’t seem like a lot, then let’s add 2 more bans into the picture which is already being asked and talked about now it’s another minute per draft, now take into account not just the games you play but the amount of dodges that happen

Lots of extra time waisted

It all adds up especially when you start adding more on

Rather just stick with the same system other mobas do

And have it all done at the same time

If you don’t want the same hero banned on both teams

Stop banning the same hero every game

[scenic swift]

my 30 seconds accounts for 2 bans per team

[scarlet river]

There’s 40 hero’s in the game and both teams are banning the same one

[scenic swift]

Should just have team a ban both two heroes then move over to team b to ban theirs

[scenic swift]

?

its blind

we cant know they are gonna ban the same one

and that goes back to the probability of it very high

since everyone bans meta op heroes

Steel

zinx

skylar

maybe aurora

thats pretty much it

25% chance

same one

[scarlet river]

Gadget sev,

[scenic swift]

gadget must be a paragon ban then

[scarlet river]

Wraith one tricks etc

[scenic swift]

how do i know they got that?

like

how do I know for example Matty is on the other team

as a wraith otp

[scarlet river]

Bc you have played against him in previous games

[scenic swift]

yeah but we are assuming hes still in that queue

didnt get off

etc

[scarlet river]

So if you play against a dude spamming one character he wasn’t the only one forever

People just default ban one hero every game

And go Aww man the same hero got banned on both teams

Yea no shit

You just default ban the same thing every game

Your adc has first pick and your on dawn side (ban Skylar anyway) why

Your offlane is top pick ban steel anyway why

I feel like most people who want this changed haven’t played other mobas

But if they change it sure I’m fine with it just don’t see it as that pressing of a concern

[scenic swift]

I dont disagree that Blind Bans can have strategy or value. I just feel it doesnt make for the most enjoyable Ranked experience we can have.

But that can be summed up to my personal preference

I still am waiting for more availability 10 weeks later

[scarlet river]

both teams are allowed a ban but players default ban the same hero every game. and this is wwhat you think makes for an unenjoyable ranked experience. I guess we have difference priorities on what would make ranked feel better

[misty hedge]

I think drafting is fun because of the strategic aspect of it and not a waste of time.

The Draft and No Mirrors is basically the only thing that separates standard from ranked, so i think it is fair to want it to be better and a little bit more special as it is right now.

[scarlet river]

sure i don't disagree with that, but i also enjoy not waiting extra time, it CAN (doesn't everytime) already take nearly 5 minutes to get through drafting, i prefer to play pred whwile also doing drafting and stuff fast

30 seconds for picking the role you want
30 seconds for both bans
30 seconds dawn 1 pick
30 seconds dusk 2 picks
30 seconds dawn 2 picks
30 seconds dusk 2 picks
30 seconds dawn 2 picks
30 seconds dusk 1 pick
10 seconds after all picks are done to get to loading screen
10-20+ seconds to load into game

this is 5 minutes already just for drafting. You guys are asking to add another 30 seconds for another baning phase. Then when we get 4 bans (2 per team) it will be another minute on top of that.

[misty hedge]

Yeah, i have no problem with that extra time.

[keen helm]

this is small game mindset, if you ever want the game to be big this argument should almost never ever be used

[scarlet river]

yea i get that, just explaining, the more bans that get added the longer the drafting.

[scarlet river]

all mobas use blind ban

well idk about smite

but league and dota 2 do

to save time (as well as other reasons)

so

[keen helm]

League everyone gets a ban tho, makes a difference

[scarlet river]

....

[keen helm]

leauge was not always like that

used to be just hte first player picked 3

[scarlet river]

yes i linked the article up top, one of the biggest reasons they switched was to save time

[keen helm]

I like the voting system, as theyre aren't enough champs to ban 10

[scarlet river]

even tho its not a 10 ban system the saving time aspect still applies

as i have just stated

[keen helm]

True, the tradeoff though, for the moment, until the ban system has room for more bans. I don

don't see why 20-30 seconds couldn't be added

to make sure bans aren't for the same characters

its a live service game

it can change later when accomodations need to be met

[scarlet river]

not saying it couldnt

idk what amount of heros they are waiting for to go to 4 bans but i have people saying they want 4 bans nearly every day in my stream

so thats another minute in draft

on top of the 30 seconds

your advocating for

is all im saying

which means drafting could now move from 5 minutes to 6.5

[keen helm]

duplicate bans aren't bad when 10 heroes are potentially getting banned

I'm advocating simply that one team bans 1 using the sytem they have

[scarlet river]

so when is it to long

[keen helm]

and then the other team bans

you only need like 15 seconds to choose

[scarlet river]

they currentl have 30 seconds

per phase

[keen helm]

change it to 20 seconds, with each side getting their own

only add 10 seconds

30 seconds for one ban is too long imo

anyways

[scarlet river]

true

im fine with that tbh, lower everything including picks to 20 seconds

😄

[keen helm]

the community comes together

[scarlet river]

the amount of dodges i get i just dont want the lobbies to take even longer

and then get dodged

for me to sit in 10 minute queue for a 6 minute lobby

to get dodged

to rinse and repeat 3 times

[keen helm]

Oh ya, crap sucks

[scarlet river]

before a game

i like saving time

[keen helm]

ideally a non duplicate ban would save time in the long run, as ppl don't have to play against the champs they don't want to as often

[scarlet river]

the "its only 30 seconds" is terrible when theres 10 dodges halfway through each time i sit down for a pred session

[keen helm]

agreed

[scarlet river]

bc the bans are upfront time add

[true oasis]

My first question would be how many hero’s do we need until we get 2 bans for each team. If that number is 50 that’s another year at the current pace. And once we are there move back to blind bans. For now tho having an extra ban phase probably wouldn’t be too bad. You could also do Team1 ban Team2 ban/first pick but not sure how that would work. Just my 2 cents but I also only sit in 3 min ques.

[misty hedge]

We have enough Heroes tbh. Even in the worst case, let's use support as an example:

Junglers pick Rik & Steel

Midlaners pick Fey & Argus

Bans: Phase, Dekker, Zinx , Muriel

We would still be left with Belica, Howitzer, Kwang that can flex in Support.

And this scenario will never happen since both teams will not double target the role they have not picked yet.

[true oasis]

That’s probably true but more of a question for omeda to decide what that number is and finding a middle ground for the short term.

[prisma tusk]

Then when we get 4 bans (2 per team) it will be another minute on top of that.
thats when you can change it again. Thats literally 1 day of work

[last dirge]

The question is if we have enough playable heroes on every role and if it is reasonable that players need to learn that many heroes per role out of the few we have. On pcc you have strong players playing their main role. On ranked you have every level of skill and people not getting their roles so that you need to play a hero on your off-role. If we have more bans people would need to play heroes they can't really play more often what would result in less quality of matches. For example imagine a silver/gold player who is carry main gets jungle. How many heroes do you need to be able per role that bans are not screwing you? Especially with a limited pool of heroes, where you sometimes have only 2-3 per role and playstyle.

So i would say in higher elo 2 bans per team would be fine i think. In lower elo i don't know if it is beneficial for casuals.

[true oasis]

That seems more like a requirements/role que/otp issue which I suppose is related. We still need role/character swaps too.

[raven fractal]

I suggested a simple fix that doesn't add any extra time.

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[scarlet river]

I am not sure if you do development work or not maybe you do but Omeda doesn’t take 1 day for anything.