Ranked matches bases off that round thing that levels up after each match

[bleak remnant]

Gold being matched with other golds or maybe one rank difference (silver/whatever is after gold). Bronze with bronze.(max silver-or no not ranked yet

[twin warren]

They might need to make rankes lower than bronze for some of my teammates.

I think smite started adding lower classes.

[slate kestrel]

Before that i would put Master between Paragon and Dia.

[twin warren]

I've had a few teammates I'd put in wood class.

[lean chasm]

Say you get a player who is masters/GM but was late to ranked, you're saying they need to grind through bronze 3 2 1, silver 3 2 1, gold 3 2 1, just to get into platinum matches?

That's a smurf's best case scenario.

[drowsy maple]

Everyone should start from lowest rank. Otherwise you throw real new players in the middle ranks and create a lot more frustration

[hazy phoenix]

just dont play game, dont need tow orry about ranked then

[livid rain]

Why?

It’s just words

What difference does it actually make?

[slate kestrel]

Deep shit bro.

[livid rain]

Good on you for not actually answering the question lol

[slate kestrel]

It’s just words
What difference does it actually make?

[livid rain]

Keep on not answering the question, genius lol

[slate kestrel]

i don´t even know what to say here, it is a video game everything is words and numbers. But words do mean things, the things they are standing for the things you need to achieve to be called these words.

[livid rain]

The original suggestion was to add ranks lower than bronze. YOU said to add a rank between diamond and paragon first.

What difference does it actually make considering they’re aiming for distribution of players across ranks?

[slate kestrel]

got u, psychological i feel bronze is better than iron.

[livid rain]

I was gonna be snarky but that’s a good answer. Yeah, I guess that’s fair

[slate kestrel]

sry for my troll answers tho

[livid rain]

Lol I was preparing to troll the hell out of you ngl.

[late vector]

An extra rank means people can be distributed between ranks more fairly and there is less of a gap of skill between people of the same rank, but different numbers e.g gold 1 and gold 3

[lean chasm]

irrelevant since rank is not what's being used to match opponents lol

[twin warren]

Systems used Omeda to curb criticism of matchmaking

Hide the “hidden MMR system”
Self explanatory. Don’t show your cards and they can’t evaluate your hand.

Create a derivative to MMR called VP to obfuscate the MMR system used.
There really isn’t another reason to have a VP other than to confuse the topic of match making. If a person complains about matchmaking they can make complicated responses so it sounds like a reasonable answer. It is a very simple example of overcomplicating a system so critics just give up.

Their old version of this was when they had OC and they kept using the phrase “OC MMR isn’t real MMR?” They aren’t wrong or lying, it's just deceptive and a red herring.. It deflected from the real issue and put people onto a different topic altogether. Then people are arguing how close the OC mmr was to real mmr. For months they trained people in discord to yell “OC mmr isn’t real” at anyone that mentioned bad matchmaking. VP is just the new iteration with a new set of chants by Omeda and discord sycophants.

Shut down critics.
Release images/graphs that show how great the matches are. Make sure to say phrases like “People just expect to win all their games” when they are discussing match quality, not winrate (another red herring). Start a trend of saying “Skill issue” to anyone that points to examples. Mute people and don’t allow access to content creators that are critical and don’t mute those that use personal attacks against the critic.

[livid rain]

Lol this is incredible

@restive rivet come look at this.

[restive rivet]

the tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight

[lean chasm]

Worthy of a ban

[late vector]

I dont know a single game that shows internal mmr for casuals
but the tin foil hat is a bit too tight

[restive rivet]

very few games show mmr for ranked, let alone casuals

and none of those games are the big popular ones

although i do agree that they should do away with the ranking system and just show ranked mmr, but that's because I've been against these psuedo ranking systems for a long time

[lean chasm]

People can hardly handle VP, there is no chance in hell they’d be able to handle seeing their MMR number lol

[hazy phoenix]

Never understood ranked system

Why not just leaderboard based off mmr?

[restive rivet]

yeah that is the general reasoning behind using these ranking systems

but people whinge and moan anyway, the end result is the same

[lean chasm]

Because MMR is much more complicated, can be adjusted/edited on the backend without a complete meltdown of the player base, includes uncertainty and other factors, etc.

I’d rather they be able to fix and adjust things on the backend without having to make major announcements or answer a thousand individual questions about people saying their number changed

Just as an aside, like 90% of the negative commentary about MMR and VP comes from people who don’t know how the system even works. There are valid criticisms of matchmaking and the accuracy of the way they set up VP and the bands, promotion/demotions, etc. Unfortunately those discussions are often drowned out by people saying show me my MMR! Why are bronze players in my lobby?!

[jade lintel]

I can't imagine there is much difference currently between VP rank and MMR rank for those with a minimum number of games played. It will likely start to make a difference when seasons are utilised and they drop peoples VP ranks at the start of a fresh season. It will allow the implementation of placement matches and ensure higher skilled players who take a break to climb quicker to their respective ranks

[lean chasm]

Opposite, MMR and VP gap is highest when there’s a low number of games played

[jade lintel]

umm, re-read what i said mate

i don't know how many games will be needed, but there will be a minimum number of games needed

[lean chasm]

If your minimum is like 200, sure lol

[jade lintel]

nah man

maybe as low as 50

[late vector]

The more games played, the more accurate the 2 will be. Tbh 50 isn't enough imo, especially in the current ranked system where you have to work up from bronze

[jade lintel]

you start at 1300 mmr

which is theoretically around gold

it takes around 22-25 wins to get to gold

50% win rate across 50 matches keeps you around 1300 mmr

[lean chasm]

Lot of assumptions there

[jade lintel]

what part is an assumption?

[lean chasm]

That 1300 is gold, that it only takes 22-25 wins to get to gold, etc

Omeda.city had uncertainty built in until around 200-225 games.

[jade lintel]

of course theres uncertainty, but I don't think we would see usch a large deviation that it would be unpredictable

it does only take around 25 wins to get to gold

unless you lose a load of games, at which point you arent 1300 mmr?

[lean chasm]

I guess gold is gold, but rn there’s a huge diff between g3 and g1

[jade lintel]

and if you had a 60-70% win rate in those first 50 games you'd be gold 1 and not gold 3?

im just looking at it from a normal distribution, after around 50 games you wouldn't be more than 1 standard deviation away from your skill set... unless you're an outlier in the top percentiles

[fickle swan]

that entirely depends against who you win and who you lose to

[fickle swan]

So throwing the best players into matches with the worst players wont cause any frustration? And how do you think they will skip the center while climbing from the bottom up? Overall fresh accs will just spend more time in "wrong" matches as if they started from the center.

[drowsy maple]

You all argue that good players climb faster. You don't believe in that anymore?

Few miserable matches for Bronze vs always miserable for all Gold

The majority of players is around Gold

I think everyone should start Bronze

[hazy phoenix]

thats not true anymore

plat u gain ~21 and lose 17

50% wr still means u climb.

[fickle swan]

was talking about mmr ^^

[drowsy maple]

mmr != rank

[fickle swan]

few? all

and its gonna be much worse for them

factually people will spend less time to get to their correct rating if they start at the center

also thats simply how rating systems work, if you change the starting point you automatically change the median of the distribution

[drowsy maple]

so the majority of players will experience terrible games because new players join mid.

the decline is inevitable

decline in player base.

[fickle swan]

If GM players would need to grind from the bottom up they would spend much more time im the middle ranks

not jsut GM's but everyone above the median

[drowsy maple]

it's a flawed system

[fickle swan]

thats how rating systems work

and they do so for a reason

[drowsy maple]

applying a system that is designed for millions of players to a game that just reached 2 mil accounts, doesn't mean it's any good

[fickle swan]

you dont need millions of players for rating systems to work properly

[wise tinsel]

We need it to start at silver 1 or something. Very much on the lower side but not the very bottom

[drowsy maple]

2 million accounts != 2 million active players

[fickle swan]

thgen you shift the median to silver and everything is the same as before except that all players deranked by 1 rank

[fickle swan]

i never said so

i said you dont need millions of players

a couple thousand are enough for those systems to work

[drowsy maple]

it's flawed. i played statcraft2 4v4 and it had a much better ranking experience than this game

[fickle swan]

Sc2 had way more players

And i agree mm is bad but its not because ppl start at the median mmr

Thats just how mmr works and it wasnz any different in sc2

It works like that in all games

Some do a seperate queue for new players but pred cant afford that

You need a constant flow of new players otherwise new players will eventually not find matches anymore

[drowsy maple]

This ... can't retain players because how ranked and pvp teams are assembled.

[drowsy maple]

? you argued just minutes ago that you don't need many players. now you say ... games had many more prayers to make work???

[fickle swan]

i said rating algorithms dont need millions to work, which is true. and i said sc2 had more players so they could give you tighter matchmaking

dont twist my words

the reason mm is bad isnt because ppl start at the median

[twin warren]

I hoped getting up to gold would help with the matchmaking. They made the horrible decision to make us all bronze. I still get people going 0and 10 in my game. SHAME ON YOU OMEDA FOR THIS MATCHMAKING.

I'm playing ranked in gold and I still get teammates that don't last hit. A good percent of my games are just unwinnable. This last match I went 12/3/9, got 4 fangtooths and still can't win with these feeders.

This is peak hours?

They used to claim the player base is too small. Now it just shows how incompetent the system has been this whole time.

[late vector]

'my teammates dont win their lane by a massive amount in all my games. it must be the games fault'
'i dont know how to carry a game even when i have a massive lead'
'theres a larger player base with more people, and some of them arent good at a completely new game to them. how dare the game want new players. they should only let people who have played pred for a year and win their lane every game be allowed to start playing the game'

[livid rain]

As constant as the sun rising each day 😌

[calm stratus]

really need to work on that matchmaking. i always end up in a team with people who don't know how to play. i was close before plat and now i'm back to nearly gold 3 because the matchmaking sucks. maybe make ranked only for players with 300+ hours in game.

[elder sundial]

MM is working as intended

shown here by an omeda dev:

https://discord.com/channels/389767672151146498/1282499872469159998

[calm stratus]

if this is intended and going on i will quit