#Kallari has lost her glory and she is in dire need of a buff.

303 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

digital tinsel
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With all the lack of skill expression in the majority of the heroes that this game have, we're lucky to have a few heroes with a skill ceiling in heaven.
Having a few heroes with a high skill ceiling is overall healthy to the game and allows the sweats & tryhards such as myself, to define their own playstyle and enjoy the game in their own way. Kallari is a hero I loved onetricking back in paragon, and I still am doing very much the same in pred.

But here's where the issue starts..
Patch V0.18 Drops!

The game changed quite drastically and some balancing issues was inevitable since a 6th item slot has just dropped and most heroes in the game were overall changed in one way or another.

Some heroes had a new light shone upon them, while others were left in the dark. Kallari is a prime example of the no longer feared assassin.

All the item reworks as well as the changes to her and all the other characters made Kallari a lot weaker than what Omeda themselves probably anticipated, therefore I'm writing this to help Omeda out with giving Kallari the buff she deserves to once again become the most feared shadow assassin in all of monolith.

Change #1.
Whenever Kallari enters stealth, there's a built in handicap in the form of quite large circle around her. If an enemy steps inside of that circle, she is immediately spotted and the whole enemy team can see her. This circle is great for new players, it allows you to react to her incoming ambush.

But there's two issue with it..

Why is it so damn large?

Just to put into perspective, Wraith, which is a ranged hero, also has access to invisibility. He also has the exact same built-in handicap with a large circle around him.
That circle though, is not as much of an issue as he is a ranged character, so he will shoot you at the same time as you are able to see him.

But Kallari is a melee character, which makes this handicap quite a lot worse..

Wraith also has 10% more movement speed while he is invisible.

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This does not make a lot of sense, the one who actually needs that movement speed is Kallari. Being a melee hero comes with greater risks, especially when you're a low-health assassin. This makes her positioning very crucial and disallows a lot of plays she would have had potential for if it wasn't for the absolutely massive circle and her lesser movement speed in stealth.

Therefore, I want to see her circle reduced to either the size of the echelon's cloak circle, or just a percentual reduction to help her reach her target before she gets hard CC'd and instakilled. It will also allow you to actually juke people with the shadow dance + shadow walk combo. Which is quite impossible unless you're lucky to be around vertical terrain.

Change #2
I got this idea from JanJan and I think it makes a lot of sense.

Simply buff her passive by making the first double jump reach its max height quicker, making it easier/actually possible to dodge more abilities.

All Kallari players will know the frustration of getting pulled by a Grux, even when you're already mid-air and have some height.

This would simply make her more smooth and allow the high-skilled players to dodge abilities that should be dodgeable in the first place. It'd also help with some of the de-sync issues you experience here and there.

But yeah, that's really all I ask for, I don't need more damage, better death mark scaling, all we need is allowing us to express our skill on a new level no one has ever seen before!

That's it, take care fellow Kallari onetricks!

mighty portal
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nah

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she fine

oblique marsh
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If they have removed the map ceilings, per v1 reveals, then kallari will indirectly receive the biggest movement buff of all heroes

thorn hamlet
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Meh idk if she needs buffs.

pliant valve
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I think her double jumps aren't high enough to cross these walls lmao

digital tinsel
digital tinsel
# mighty portal nah

So I checked your profile and you hilariously enough, you have not even played a single Kallari game since V0.18 dropped. So how can you so confidently say that when you have absolutely zero experience with the subject? If you have literally nothing to add to the discussion, then ignore it.

digital tinsel
mighty portal
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She has the ability to absolutely obliterate the carry, mid

digital tinsel
mighty portal
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a top jungler

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just a skill issue on your part

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and its a reason why i stoped playing kalalri

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she is to OP and cringe

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how about u just get better ?

digital tinsel
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Damn, you're genuinely pathetic. You don't play her cuz u dont have the skills required to, otherwise you would have shown your own games, but you wouldn't cuz you got nothing to show for.

As I said, go back to cry about countess, it's the only thing you can ever do.

mighty portal
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?

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i defiitly have the skills to play her

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isnt my winrate like 65%?

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also i play her on my other account

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wich was the challenge of 0 mmr to masters

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im sorry your so upset you have to resort to that kinda talk

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i hope you can improve and grasp your gapped

white plaza
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Both of you chill

ionic trout
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lol you guys need to get a room.

Kallari probably needs some adjustments but she’s not a helpless baby

digital tinsel
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That's the thing. These changes are very light buffs.

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And this "papaya" (wtf) guy should just get out of the thread as he has literally no value to come with. It's clear he just wants to argue for the sake of it.

ionic trout
digital tinsel
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I get not liking her, but heroes like her are needed for the game to grow. And my changes only helps her skill ceiling increase as well as lighten her handicap a little.

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Unless u play Kallari, it'd be hard to know how much v0.18 changed her

mighty portal
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i dont ned to. i still get 1 shot by her as a mid main going againt good kallari gamers lol.

digital tinsel
# mighty portal i dont ned to. i still get 1 shot by her as a mid main going againt good kallari...

You argue for attention to make up for the fact that no one wants to watch your content. You're ju a very toxic and disliked person, and I'm sure you're aware of that.

65% winrate as kallari in her glorydays? Did you even read the thread? I had 75% winrate on over 250 matches. We're talking about the present, not the past. Or are you not able to comprehend nor grasp such abstract concepts with ur monkey brain?

mighty portal
hybrid kiln
mighty portal
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i have literally only said you have a skill issue

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and your here calling me things

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wild

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can we just remoev kalalri to see what they do

thorn hamlet
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After what I have seen kallari do in many games and pcc idk if she needs anything atm she's very strong. The circle as you mention being a problem I think is 1 thing that separates a good from a bad kallari in how they play around it.

digital tinsel
white plaza
hybrid kiln
digital tinsel
white plaza
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Not going to warn u again

white plaza
digital tinsel
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Well, okay, youre right. But can u get this guy outta my thread or just remove the chatlogs? He just ruined my post

white plaza
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He can have a an opinion

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You decided to be hostile first

digital tinsel
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But u said it wasnt civil opinions, so its fine by me if u remove it

mighty portal
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how did i ruin your post? i am literalyl sharign the info of a top jungler player

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dominatign wit hkallari

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she is a high skill charcte and is very rewarding

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the thing with kallari is 1 small mistake sets you back a mile compared to any jungler.

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you miss that blue invade? youll be severly hurrt now.

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you got that level 2 gank in duo and got a dobuel? insanely strong now

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she has the biggest power spikes / nonspikes in the game imo.

digital tinsel
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Writes a detailed post how my favourite hero needs a change

Random dude with almost zero Kallari experience enters chat
"Nah" "she fine"

Like why even speak if u dont know what ure talking about?

mighty portal
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you get into late game? sure she can fall off cause she is squisy but still can 1 hit a squishy.

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i do think im pretty well knowledged about the game...

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with the amount of hours and rank..

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kallari is strong still

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and just requires knowledge / different style of play

digital tinsel
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You may very well be, but I'm sure im more well knowledged with kallari than u are

hybrid kiln
digital tinsel
thorn hamlet
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Let's look at another hero with low winrate 46% severog should he be buffed when he was legit a star in all of PCC? Like ........

digital tinsel
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In jungle, yes.

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In offlane, no

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Sevarog: 46.88%
Kallari: 43.99%

That's quite an astronomical difference

thorn hamlet
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Disagree as I've seen him do well jungle too he's not top tier but he still works.

Yes and in my last ranked game my teams kallari dumpstered the other team on her own like......

She's very strong. She's just harder to play well the higher you climb but I assure you she's still pubstomping hard.

digital tinsel
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The reason I'm doing well is because I'm usually up against Diamond - Master players, I'm sure if I were in a full grandmaster lobby, they'd all play into my weaknesses and I'd become completely useless. And therefore I tried thinking up small ways that makes sense, which make her feel better to play in the long run, whilst not being damage buffs.

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Why does it make sense for wraith to be faster in stealth than kallari?

Why does it make sense for kallari to have the same circle size as wraith when wraith is ranged and kallari is melee?

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That's the questions I want to see someone argue for.

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Also, I'd like to see someone argue against Change #2 that I wrote about.

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I don't wanna hear the "Nah she can pubstomp, shes op!" I wan't to hear actual arguments behind why

thorn hamlet
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Kallari is good in high play too though she's litterally a pubstomp low mmr then falls off at the average player level because people know how to counter bad ones then is great again in higher play if you can pilot her well.

naive meteor
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kallari is pretty strong still

thorn hamlet
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She's a high skill hero but she's not weak.

It's the same thing when you look at wraith

That hero is a monster in the right hands

naive meteor
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was disgustingly broken pre v18

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but shes still good

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i dont think they can make her any better without hurting the game

hybrid kiln
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I would give her #2 if she loses her passive reset after Nex/Ult.

naive meteor
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a champ like her cannot be giga broken

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like rev i feel

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overall shes still good

digital tinsel
naive meteor
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just harder to play than most

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pretty good high elo

digital tinsel
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She's nowhere close to "giga broken" and she was not at all "disgustingly broken" prev18.

She's a decent character, but I believe these are the two changes I'd love to see in order to put her back on the radar.

naive meteor
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yeah i didnt say she was giga broken i said she is not allowed to be lol

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and she was turbo busted pre patch

hybrid kiln
digital tinsel
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But she wasn't though

naive meteor
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i had like 85% wr masters lmao

digital tinsel
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Show it

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lol

naive meteor
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she was way too strong

digital tinsel
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go ahead and link ur profile

naive meteor
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Bharlyy

hybrid kiln
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I want a new Laser after Ortus on Wraith.

naive meteor
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but thats besides my point

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thats old news anyways

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right now shes still good just not s tier imo

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but thats how she should stay

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insta kill stealth champs like her cant be too strong

digital tinsel
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What u don't realize is they have literally buffed her 2 times since v0.18

They will keep on buffing her! Because she is just not that strong anymore, and the risk/reward of playing her is just too high risk with too low reward.

But go ahead and play her and you'll see what I mean.

naive meteor
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i wouldnt take what they have done as proof of anything

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i mean theh buffed feng mao twice since that patch

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and that was ridiculous

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zarus too

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kwang

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most of their balance decisions have been wrong imo

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you are right though

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i need more games on her this patch to fully decide

digital tinsel
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You can't say u have that high of a winrate if you've barely played her?

It's like me saying I have 100% winrate on a champion cuz I played that champion 5 times and won all games.

naive meteor
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but i dont think she needs big buffs if at all

digital tinsel
naive meteor
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well every kallari player high elo has a super super strong wr with her

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15 games is not 5 though haha

digital tinsel
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Dude, what you don't realize is the difference between pre v.18 and post v.18

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I said 100% winrate on 5 games, u said 85% but u have 20 games and 80%

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no that big of a difference, it was just an example

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She was in a very good spot pre v.18

naive meteor
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yeah but i think theres gonna be a big difference in wr between someone with 5 games and someone with 20

digital tinsel
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Okay Okay excuse my numbers but I hope u get the concept?

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I had 75% winrate with 250 games

naive meteor
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yeye haha

digital tinsel
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There's a huge dif there

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now I have 72% on 277 games

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And I'd like to say I play even better now than I used to pre v.18, yet I perform a lot worse

naive meteor
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yeah but i think it all comes down to her being turbo broken pre patch

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and now that shes not of course shes gonna feel a lot worse

digital tinsel
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She didn't go from turbo broken to good.

She went from good to okay.

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And these small changes would refine her a bit to put her in her old shoes, without adding more damage to her kit.

naive meteor
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the double jump change i really like and agree with

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thats kinda wack when u should be out and still get hut

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but i dont think the invis thing would be a good change

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would you remove the indicator

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or make it a lot smaller

digital tinsel
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But what about a smaller percentual change in area to it? Or at least match her movement speed to that of Wraith's?

naive meteor
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i dont think they should make her any faster

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so the smaller area i would say

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would be interesting to see how she plays with those changes

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the jump one is a bug fix though frfr

digital tinsel
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Yeahh fr dude

plain python
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So, give him a nudge to speed since he isn't regaining health.

digital tinsel
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A minor health regen for a much slower invis

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Its a good argument, but I don't think that's fair for her

plain python
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Her invis CD also much shorter

naive meteor
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i think the regen isnt minor at all

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its like having a health potion at all times

plain python
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It's not minor. It saves her in a lot of situations

digital tinsel
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Well, okay so lets say her regen makes up for her lack of speed. But why is the circle size the same for a ranged and melee character?

plain python
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She is an assassin. She gets any kind of ahead of even even she can just kit whoever outside of someone incredibly tanky and they are dead or close to it. She poofs, regens, waits for CDs, does it again if they are dumb enough to stick around

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Kallari is strong, but she just needs to be played correctly.

naive meteor
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i can see the circle thing now for sure

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but wraith is 5% faster haha

plain python
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He's 10% faster

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But that's pretty moot because he is either leaving a fight or burning it to engage

naive meteor
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ah

plain python
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Unless the wraith is also big, him leaving to snipe while his team is getting cooked is just low value

digital tinsel
keen crypt
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I think removing the circle altogether would be a good step in the right direction only this time kallari is revealed when damaged

plain python
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I don't jungle. But I've fought against some of the best Kallaris. You acting like you are the number 1 knowledge on the character is ridiculous

naive meteor
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by revealed do you mean invis ends

digital tinsel
naive meteor
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or u have vision of her

plain python
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Same for wraith

keen crypt
digital tinsel
naive meteor
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ahhh im not too sure

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that seems like a heavy change

plain python
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And I'm having a discussion since I do have a decent bit of knowledge on the game. Kallari is in a fine spot.

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Adcs, not so much.

digital tinsel
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could u send ur profile then?

plain python
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No

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I don't have to

digital tinsel
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And why is that?

naive meteor
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the changes he is asking for are more qol than anything

keen crypt
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But it's a change I want back I find it vexing that I'm punished for wanting to engage?

naive meteor
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which are fine

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even if kallari is doing okay rn

plain python
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Because you're trying to use my "profile" to undermine my opinion and that's just poor tact

digital tinsel
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Yeah ty, it's not like I want a massive damage increase or health increase.

I want her to have a punishing playstyle, but I think that certain parts of her kits may be too punishing.

naive meteor
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i think you have vision of her while shes taking damage

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and 2 seconds after

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invis ending upon any damage is a big nerf

plain python
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@naive meteor well casters it's easier since megacosm is mandatory, you see the number ticks when they run away

naive meteor
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even with the circle change

digital tinsel
plain python
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Lol

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No

naive meteor
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yeah stuff like megacosm would be good

plain python
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I have nothing to prove to give an opinion

digital tinsel
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You're not just giving an opinion, you're stating a LOT of stuff that doesn't sounds true so I'm simply asking you to prove it's true?

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How is "But I've fought against some of the best Kallaris" an opinion?

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How is "ou acting like you are the number 1 knowledge on the character is ridiculous" an opinion?

plain python
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What doesn't sound true? Her invis is different from wraiths because they each act in different ways for different playstyles

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Have you not read this thread? You're acting really weird when good players are telling you she is strong.

digital tinsel
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I'm asking you,

Why are their circle sizes the same when wraith is Ranged and Kallari is Melee

Wraith can shoot as soon as they see him

Kallari will have to let the enemies see her for at least 2 seconds or more

plain python
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I don't play a lot of drongo but that doesn't take away from the fact he's probably the best ADC out

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Yeah and if she is building correctly that doesn't matter when 60% of your health is gone from a knife and an auto + mark

keen crypt
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Doesn't wraith also get a reset on his stealth?

digital tinsel
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You said you have personal experience playing against some of the best kallaris in the game

plain python
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@keen crypt if he kills someone

keen crypt
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And kallari doesn't oof

naive meteor
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its on takedowns

keen crypt
naive meteor
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kallaris stealth is really low cd

plain python
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@keen crypt her CD so low it doesn't matter. It's up after she kits anyway

naive meteor
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and she builds omen usually

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usually not a big deal

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shes perma stealth pretty much

plain python
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Yeah. Unless wraith is using it super aggro it's more of an escape

naive meteor
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Most wraiths use it aggro

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with stuff like envy

plain python
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As they should.

naive meteor
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less of an escape

digital tinsel
plain python
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If you're in a fight where you need to use it to cancel an animation to desperate another basic, you're probably losing that fight.

digital tinsel
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Okay you have never played kallari

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LOL

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You just proved that haha

plain python
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I already said I don't jungle. You're using it to kill a squish? You're building wrong.

naive meteor
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I disagree

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animation cancel is part of her dump

digital tinsel
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100%

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@plain python

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Why are you talking big when you don't know anything about her?

naive meteor
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that is incorrect

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but again

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the cd is really short

plain python
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If you leave invis, double Rmb next mark goes boom = dead. Invis back up, walk away

digital tinsel
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You're acting like you're pre-stealthing for every single fight, there's a lot of scenarios where you don't do that

plain python
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All you've done is be incredibly weird

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This discussion is yawn

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Your opinion is bad. Enjoy these changes never happen

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Leaving thread

naive meteor
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she doesnt need any numbers buffs at all

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the jump change would be good

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more of a bug fix than anything

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and im still unsure on stealth circle changes

keen crypt
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Ye it's bad

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Just remove it and adjust from there

digital tinsel
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haha I wish man, but that wouldn't be possible

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Also yeah, the jump is more of a fix than a change tbh

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Removing the circle would be bad for new players

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But I really think they should try decreasing it with like 15-20% and see how it plays out

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I really want to shadow dance + shadow walk juke players, but it really isn't possible with a invis circle as big as the area of 10 rampages

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Shadow Dance is only really good for a few situations, but with the slow first jump, it just makes it feel awkward and buggy sometimes.

keen crypt
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True but new players are gonna get stomped anyway, it's kinda the same situation with smites old Loki

digital tinsel
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It is mainly used before ulting, or to escape in vertical terrain

digital tinsel
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That's why I tried suggesting some very very realistic changes

mighty portal
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removing the circle lmao. i love that seh can already just run up at me and combo me with knives and mark before i can even do anything.

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literally kallari is played liek this : q, e,ult,knife, knife throw basics if u have to , probably dont.

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why does hte circle matter

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the only adjustment she needs is ult hitbox fix, but thats a offset issue with SO many abilities.

digital tinsel
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You don't throw the knives usually before getting within melee range. If you played her you'd know you use her abilities to animation cancel.

Therefore, almost always, you want to reach melee range, which the invis helps with. But the circle is a handicap for her, especially with how big it is.

So if you can't even react to the 1-2 second warning you get, then I'm honestly amazed.

mighty portal
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there is no reaction if u play off the ult...

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u literally go invis and ult....

digital tinsel
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Oh you're talking about the ult with almost 2 minute cd?

mighty portal
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so level 1 is 125 cd, like most chaacters

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tb has about 1200 hp

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ult combo with E and all that stuff is 1 hit potential

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i dont know what the dilemma is?

digital tinsel
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idek what ure trying to get at

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All you do is sit on these threads and argue all day long in order to feel something. It explains more about you as a person than anything else.

mighty portal
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im at work

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i program stff and test them

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i chat here wen i am programming stuff so

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i got all my stocks set up, my life things all ideal

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i dont got much else to do now while im at work.

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so i come to this discord of my favorite game, oh also a game i create content for, and chat and look at things

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i have definitly helped people in #1046944309804552272

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so you can say wat you want

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the above posts was to show that its not a 2minute cooldown after level 11, and malady grants haste, and your overall damage melts the carry when doing a full kit burst.

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if you do not grasp that

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you sould probably play morigesh for a bit to learn the ropes.

cursive moat
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No need to make things personal over opinions of a character in a game

digital tinsel
digital tinsel
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Also, you need to gank starting from level 2 as kallari in order to snowball, so there will be a lot of time where u dont have your ult up.

white plaza
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@digital tinsel both me and koreok have asked you to stop with the comments now

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

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If you don’t want to engage with someone just ignore them

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Or ask for the thread to be closed

thorn hamlet
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You cannot really react to a invis to ult it's also how I play her when I pick her up

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She scary if played like that