#I suck at build making, how can I get better at building items throughout the game?

77 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

autumn siren
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Building items by myself is super difficult for me to get my head around, I either use the builds on Omeda.City or the items the game recommends me, how can I get better at this and build items for myself?

heady yoke
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My tip is watching someone who explains what they're building and just stealing omeda.city trending builds until you figure it out

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Joeyourstruly explains why he builds what he does but some of them are a little sus. I think pinzo might as well

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There is also some general stuff like caustica/demo 3rd or 4th slot

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Ocrown 5th or 6th

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Build sky splitter on adc

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dont build timewarp or astral catalyst in midlane

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(I actually like timewarp 6th on some mages but its not very good)

faint mist
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I like time warp
Especially on mana hungry champs and some supports

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But the main way to learn is learn the effects and stats and playstyle of all the items you currently build from omeda city builds or recommended, and once you learn those for a few characters, try and branch out to learn more items from other characters and roles

heady yoke
faint mist
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Its good an gadget and argus as a first item

haughty sinew
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I just hit diamond MMR today and I'm still new to the game, I've played around 60 hours. If you would like any help just hit me up. If I have time I won't mind watching you play a game on screenshare and offer input ^^

acoustic zephyr
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Guess building against certain champs is the first step. Tainted against heal champs and anti tank vs strong armor.

heady yoke
autumn siren
autumn siren
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(Narbash, Countess, Khaimera, Grux) - Build Anti heal

Big tanks like Steel, Riktor - Build Anti-tank

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But my main issue is the build I'm actively making in the match regardless of anti stuff

acoustic zephyr
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some champs have key items like khai with draconum and voidhelmet

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more like this?

autumn siren
acoustic zephyr
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Guess finding out what's good and what not is the task we all have to accomplish

haughty sinew
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But, yeah, there are a few stages in building items you need to consider. Now, this is only talking about items, not about the full picture of how to win more games as that wasn't the question, so I won't go over heroes and what not.

That said, the first step is to look at others. You can test everything for yourself, but before you have a good grip on what's what, something has changed.

So goto the Omeda site, look at the hero you're wanting to build better, and then make sure you select something that is not gold MMR, use at least diamond. I always start with grandmaster, and then if there's too few games for data, I look at master, then diamond. Cross referencing those will give you a good picture of what the best items for the hero is. Look at winrates for items compared to what slot they are bought at, first item, second item, et cetera. Then cross reference how many games those winrates are across, if it is 100% for 1 game, it's not a very accurate picture, but if it is say, Sky Splitter with 75% winrate across 12 games on Grux off-lane first item in Grandmaster MMR (this is the numbers I just checked, not made up) it is probably a strong first item on him. Numbers don't lie.

Now, once you have an idea of what items are strong on a hero, you also have to consider their use cases. Let's continue with Grux off-lane, as counter-building when playing in a lane is more important than when in jungle. Sky splitter is a generally strong item, it has no specific use cases, it just gives you high damage and lifesteal, which are two very powerful things. Sustain can keep you alive, and staying alive can be the difference between dying and losing minions, versus surviving and getting those minions, so those 8% lifesteal can be the difference between -500 gold and +500 gold. Consider that, too.

Since sky splitter is a generally good item, you don't have to think much and can buy it on Grux as 1st item always.

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Now, let's move to second item. If you look at Grandmaster again, the only item with good statistics behind it as 2nd item on Grux is Bonesaw, but that's only 9 games, so here you cross reference Master MMR, and Bonesaw is again the top item in slot 2, but Draconum is also very good, based on numbers. Now you know those 2 items are solid 2nd item choices, so which to choose when in-game? Here you look at the enemy team. Do they have a lot of physical damage, and maybe they are already buying antiheal, and are you struggling against your lane opponent, which does physical damage, or a jungler that does, maybe even both? Then Draconum is an obvious choice, because it helps you survive with the armour and increased healing. You can't do damage if you're dead, so Bonesaw may have more theoretical damage, but if you can't survive to do that damage, Draconum will heavily outperform it.

Now, are you stomping and just want more damage to stomp harder? Bonesaw is a great choice. This is how you itemize. Think about advantages and disadvantages, but only do this for good items on the hero. Sure, if you get low all the time the Raiment of Renewal may seem good, but you get no value from it beyond the healing and health. You want items that work well on your hero, which is why you look at Omeda, and then once you know what items are good, then you pick between those based on the game. For example the enemy team, and the specific struggles you face in that one game. You want to stack benefits from items. Sky splitter boosts damage of all abiltiies, because he scales with physical power. The attack speed helps you apply the passive of the item more, and your own passive. Your RMB ability double applies the passive. The lifesteal gives you sustain. So Sky Splitter is a super optimal item, because everything it does works very well on Grux, the same can't be said for Raiment of Renewal.

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So in other words; make a list of good items on the hero, and then pick between those items in the game, don't waste time picking between items that aren't even good on the hero. Picking between 5 rotten apples to find the least rotten one is a waste of time. Start by finding the good apples (items) and then pick between those based on what you need in the game.

For 3rd slot on Grux off-lane you have a lot of options, so here you have more things to consider. Did you go Bonesaw 2nd? Then Draconum is a good pick now. Did you already take Draconum but still struggle with physical damage? Then Gaia greaves is great. Especially if you struggle to run away, or run down your opponent, then you benefit from the movement speed from Gaia, AND the armour. What if you also benefit from the tenacity because they have a Riktor? Winning is simply making the most optimal choices. Whoever makes more optimal choices throughout a game wins. This applies to items as well, so learn what items are good, then learn in what situations they are good, then make smart, optimal decisions based on that information.

autumn siren
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Pen builds if you find yourself ganking a lot of people in 1v1 scenarios and sustain lifesteal builds for frontlining

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The cross referencing as well has a lot of pen builds start with combustion

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I'll try and put this knowledge into the training room and look at some builds.

haughty sinew
autumn siren
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Helps stack his damage since he's one of those progressive DPS characters that wants to sustain

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Hmm....maybe I should try some lifesteal items on him too.

haughty sinew
autumn siren
haughty sinew
autumn siren
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Maybe that's my issue...

haughty sinew
# autumn siren Hmm...true. Maybe I'm looking into the effects too much and not the stats then.

The effects are important. But to illustrate, megacosm does 3% max HP and 6% bonus hp. Let's just say it's a carry with no bonus healh and 1500 HP which is a low amount. That means megacosm does 15 damage per second, 45 damage if you touch them with a single ability. This can be done per target and has no cooldown. On higher HP it does more damage, on people with bonus HP it does more damage. Noxia has worse stats if you ask me because it gives no mana, and the 5% damage on it requires you to land 2 abilities, and 5% of the 1500 is only 75 dmg, but on a 10 second cooldown. Megacosm is simply just much better.

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Especially on Argus ^^

autumn siren
haughty sinew
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And Azure core isn't overly needed, so I just get alchemical rod to start stacking, as the alchemical rod passive is what you really want. By the time you stack it, alchemical rod gives you about 100 magical power for 1000 gold, that's a crazy gold efficient item. That's why I go Alchemical rod > Megacosm > Azurecore/Wraith/Caustica. On Argus Wraith is great because it boosts your ult kill potential, and overall damage. Mobility helps because he has no movement ability, and the extra damage on low targets plays into your megacosm as well.

autumn siren
autumn siren
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Boosts the constant dps and have perm magic pen

haughty sinew
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Plus crown gives no mana. Alchemical rod is just an insane item.

autumn siren
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It's just a pure magic power stat stick, nothing more.

haughty sinew
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I don't even think it's that good of an item.

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It should give +30% magical power to be worth it.

autumn siren
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Hmm...it is quite an expensive item

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Okay so...I'll try and put those ideas into practise.

What about tanks?

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Sometimes I get shoved into the offlane as a Solo que

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And no one else picks a tank

haughty sinew
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Say you build crown ontop of a super high power build, you're playing spellbreaker + golem's gift + azure core that's around 370 magical power while spellbreaker shield is up. Then you add crown, crown bumps your magical by around 200 while spellbreaker shield is up. So 200 magical power for 3500 gold. Caustica is 2900 gold and will give you 70 magical power, so 130 power less, which for Argus Q means your Q does ~60 damage less, but you do at least 10% more damage, potentially way more depending on how much magical armour they buy. So caustica basically gives you more damage than crown even if they dont buy magical armour. If they do caustica outperforms crown by far, and it's 600g cheaper and gives you mana regen as well.

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Crown and noxia are just super bad items if you ask me

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That is also why you don't see them built on many heroes, the items themselves are just weak.

haughty sinew
# autumn siren Okay so...I'll try and put those ideas into practise. What about tanks?

Depends on the tank, and who's on the enemy team. When you get in-game, look at their team. Is it 80% magical damage, 50/50 or what does it favour? Then by the time you build your core build, 1-2-3 items depending on hero, you look at who is most fed and the biggest problem, then you can counter build. Sure, if they are 80% magical damage, but the carry that is doing physical does 80% of their damage, building physical armour is smarter than magical armour.

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It's about spending your gold to get the most power out of it

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Anyway, I'm free now if you want to play a game ^^

autumn siren
haughty sinew
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sounds good

autumn siren
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So uhh