#Razorback Calculations and Strategies

26 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

grave fable
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So, I have been forming this theory around the Razorback crest item.

My theory was this:
"This item is less useful on tanks, because the damage reflected is calculated after armor mitigation. This means you are reflecting back a lot less than (what I think) you should be."

So I tested it today.

I came away with 2 pieces of knowledge that I felt needed tested (at least for my own understanding, some of you may have already figured these things out):

  1. Razorback works on objectives, meaning Fangtooth and Prime/Mini Prime. That means, if you ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BURN QUICK, you can pop Razorback for additional damage.
  2. Razorback does indeed do less damage to your target the more armor you have.

So this brings me to the theorycrafting of this post. Do we still think tanks are the best candidates for Razorback?

Hear me out. We have 3 tank crests (that I feel are mostly underwhelming).

Nyr Warboots - Give you a nice speed boost that can help in engage or disengage, and the healing is noticable (and I believe is affected by things like Raiment of Renewal). It's an okay item, I suppose. I think it benefits Khaimera or Rampage more than, say, Steel or Sevarog.
Saphirs Mantle - This is my goto in most situations. The extra 20% health is definitely noticeable for clutch engagements, and slowing on all damage is a pretty big deal. This seems pretty universally useful.
Razorback Crest - I mean, sure, the bounce back damage is nice, and it's true damage...but since it is calculated after armor mitigation, isn't it a bit counterintuitive to put it on your tank?

Where should we use it?

Personally, I have had A LOT of success with Razorback crest on bruiser builds. Grux and Khaimera, specifically. My intention here is that I build mostly health on bruisers, as opposed to stacking armor. You mostly want those juicy on-hit effects, and a lot of them come with chunks of health, but not many build armor.

So what are other people's thoughts? Should razorback be used on tanks?

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Hit character limit.

The reason I like it on Bruisers is, like I said above, I am not building much armor. So when you do 800 damage to me? 400 of that is coming back. On top of that, a lot of bruiser builds contain a lot of sustain, like Mutilator, Draconum, and Raiment of Renewal. Then on top of that, bruisers like Khaimera, Grux, and Crunch have built in sustain/healing. So you end up with the ability to bounce back a lot of damage while you weather the storm of damage coming in. I have found it to be incredibly effective and I really enjoy using it. It feels far more impactful here than building it on a tank, where I am mitigating 30% or so of the incoming damage, and then half of that goes back out.

Again, I am really interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Maybe there is an angle I'm missing, here.

regal plaza
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Also, razorback health if you have omnivamp which tanks don't usually have

ember trench
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When I play carry, I’m relieved when I see a tank not go razorback. Like the game will be easy mode.

regal plaza
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Heals

grave fable
ember trench
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Yeah, I had great testing 1v1 a sweaty tank seva one game. 3 autos puts me near death. He ran wardens stonewall and tainted guard

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World breaker and flux matrix I believe

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@grave fable

regal plaza
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If you don't have tainted guard the adc can typically heal though the damage. Also, its the easiest thing in the game to counter play tbh. You literally have to do nothing but wait a few seconds.

grave fable
regal plaza
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what adc doesn't 😭

ember trench
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Yeah I did use an item that did that. My build was sky splitter, ashbringer, imperator, terminus, and I forgot the last one. @grave fable

regal plaza
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oh yeah razorback with shred you with a build like that

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the terminus helps but the guy built tainted

grave fable
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Interesting. Okay, in starting to walk it back a bit. I still think it's better on Bruisers that can sustain through the damage as they reflect it.

regal plaza
idle garnet
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look at it this way

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if i lose all my 4k health in 4s while razor was active

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i dealt 2k damage

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that is nuts

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razorback is still insane value on tanks because you're still reflecting the same amount of damage, just over longer durations

frank nebula
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Yeah, build rampage jungle as a bruser with razorback, pop ult and watch those carry's kill themselves 😂

languid citrus
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Nope it still makes sense on tanks and is usually the best crest. Think of it being calculated after mitigation as just a way to nerf its dmg so it isnt OP. The thing about razorback is its effectiveness essentially scales off of HP. The more HP you have, the more damage they have to try and do to kill you which means you will reflect more.

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If you put it on heroes with less HP just because theyre building less mitigation, just because the damage reflect goes up so does the damage taken, and if its dishing out damage that just means you're dying because you don't have enough health to live long enough for it to matter.