#DOTA vs Pred

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pulsar vault
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Hi all,
My brother is a huge DOTA player and has recently joined me in playing predecessor. I am trying to get him to listen to me about a few mechanics and struggling.

I don't know DOTA very well but there seems to be a handful of things we disagree on and I would like some opinions from the community.

  1. Duo Lane:
    I am arguing that most of the time the support should stick to their carry like glue.
    Feed last hits, help wave management, kill enemy duo and feed the ADC as much as possible.
    Tank buff and nab Fangtooth when we can.
    Leave to ward or if someone really needs a support or relief in lane.

Counter argument is that the support should leave the ADC to farm alone so not sharing gold or xp and roam back if needed (but never does).
Annoys me as he runs off soaking up other lanes, getting our team behind or dies to being out of position.

  1. Team fight initiation
    I'm desperately trying to convince him not to initiate fights without the full team late game which usually ends up in either a 1 vs 3 ricktor or trickle feeding a ton of kills.

  2. Setting lanes,
    I argue setting lanes by only killing ranged minions is normally more beneficial as you can push the lane while concentrating on other objectives or contested locations. Of course if it's a big wave or early you clean it up.

His argument is by not clearing the whole wave he is losing gold.

  1. Xp
    There's a complaint he is always behind some of the other team mates. My argument is that 1 or 2 levels aren't as important as gold gain and that offlaners will usually be higher level due to the buff. He also says his jungler is always very far behind in xp. I think this shows his jungle process is not efficient and that he isn't last hitting enough in other roles. Support is probably always going to be behind due to the nature of support in this moba.

Thoughts?

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If anyone wants to add anything else they think of in the difference of mechanics please also let us know your thoughts. Thansk

fickle sapphire
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  1. Support protects the ADC as much as possible, even dying if it will prevent the ADC from dying, in the beginning of game. Support should poke the other team, but not so much as to disrupt the lane farming. This is to provide an opportunity to the ADC. Poke also helps with preventing last hits by the enemy. Crest card pretty much requires it as well to get extra gold. Support and ADC should be on comms for best results.
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  1. Team fights. It really depends, but Support is usually behind the rest of team thus should play cautiously, otherwise they're just feeding. Steel support may be the exception late game.
humble walrus
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My 2cents

  1. In all mobas this is a discussion. Actually in many high elo games in lol the support is basically a second jungler. As high elo sup you leave the lane as soon as you see that the adc can support themselfs. Your first roams are often the second or even the first time your adc goes base. That being said in some games you must babysit the duo lane for quite some time. On the other hand if you carry is really bad just sell him out and bring the rest of your team ahead is also a valid tatik. So it depends, but generally speaking a good sup knows when to roam and where to be and yes they should roam.
    That being said I also feel like in pred you need to babysit the carry a little longe because early goes longer. Later in the game the support should protetect the win condition champion and if that is the carry then they should focus to protect him.

  2. is hard to say, if a team fight is really a good idea. Very often team fights are unpredictable, hence it is often advice to not force a team fight unless you have a clear advantage. Good players are waiting for the enemy to make a mistake and rather force them to do hard decisions and then only take fights in their favor.

  3. This also depneds, In the past paragon had very often this thing where people would "set the lanes" and then meet in the middle to play ARAM, while all where mid people would loose towers. I think in other mobas tower can withstand more than two minon waves, but here I think two to 3 minons waves under the toer will bring it actually down. I think lane setting can be a valid tatic, but he is not false. YOu basically throwing with lane setting the ressources away, because your minons will just kill away your farm.

  4. I think that junglers could actually also get a little more XP, and in many mobas 2 levels can be a lot. But predecessors laes more room for mistakes and better dodgability. Soin pred two levels are not as bad as in other mobas.

fickle sapphire
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  1. Setting the lane is usually a mid to late game thing. This allows you to leave your lane for team fights and objectives. The lane will push on its own. If the enemy is distracted long enough the Winions will take towers on their own. Freezing the lane early game is up to the ADC. This keeps the minions in place for easy farming.
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  1. XP. Typically, you aid in the ADC controlling the lane and getting last hits, but sneaking off to steal a jungle camp has some merit. It's my experience the jungle isn't fully farmed and the duo lane can use the bonus experience around the 5+ minute mark. If on comms, be sure to let the jungler know you're taking a camp. But don't leave your ADC vulnerable if they have an aggressive duo and jungler. Jungler should never take lane minions before 20 minute mark unless lane is trying to push minions in to tower and even then only if the lane is having trouble. Jungler gets reduced xp if any for lane minions before the 20 minute mark.
sleek tulip
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Since he is a dota player, duo lane to him is p1/p5 hes used to the p5 facilitating the p1 till the p1 can comfortably farm the jungle and farm the waves in what is called a triangle, this to my knowledge is ONLY a dota thing (smite has something similar but the support just goes mid and facilitates the mid and rotates around to get kills/ward/objectives while the two adcs solo farm the entire game till they are 20 basically) remember that he is newer so he will undoubtedly die because its very different from dota in basically every aspect.

This is just game sense which he will learn as he plays dont be too hard on him

This is interesting, see to my first remarks, it just depends what you want your wave state to be but he should understand shoving/freezing as a dota player since both can happen in dota

In dota there is a thing called tomes that give you flat xp plus more based on every tome used on your team in a game, this is used for the supports to remain on par in levels and not fall too far behind because their main job is to facilitate, stack jungle camps, then look for picks around the map so they dont get too much farm experience (jungle/minion xp), Since he has a dota brain, if hes playing what is to him a p5 he has the expectation of getting the least gold/xp on the team so thats a habit he has to break. Jungling in dota doesn't exist (besides a few select metas like MEEPO META!!!) the jungle serves as more xp/gold for carries and thats it so jungle pathing/efficiency is something he just genuinely has no knowledge in i hope this helps bridge the gap between you and him as well and remember to be patient since pred and dota have very few similarities 👍

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I segmented my response to each of your points by spacing them out vertically 😄

paper monolith
fickle sapphire