What why
#Team Fortress 2 Megathread V2 - Badlands
merry falcon
lavish gust
insecurity, unfulfillment, etc
lavish gust
i mean what kind of attention seeking depravity does one need where one expands into uncletopia because no one cares about the bots anymore
proper umbra
bet theyre not on european servers
sullen venture
Well unfortunately i don't live in europe
wary flax
let's see how long that works out for them
especially when you consider only 6 snipers can join in one server
sullen venture
That's more than enough to ruin a game
lavish gust
sullen venture
why???
sinful pawn
but why does changing the existing ones matter
lavish gust
but why does changing the existing ones matter
its probably a none or all thing
sinful pawn
makes sense
sullen venture
oh
sinful pawn
such an odd change though
sullen venture
might just be an internal thing
sullen venture
i wonder if its repo locking down
?
sinful pawn
like restricting the source engine licensee repos
sullen venture
Yeah, why would that affect the depot names
those are just for steam distribution afaik
sinful pawn
i don't know its just a guess
but there's not really much use putting too much thought into it
we'll either find out why or we won't
clearly it means tf2 source 2 update tohugh!!1!!111!
sullen venture
OMG how did you know????
sullen venture
clearly it means tf2 source 2 update tohugh!!1!!111!
Maybe they're going to delete the depots 
real pecan
panorama beta time
sinful pawn
looking through other valve games, they did the same to dota underlords on dec 4
same with HL:A on the same day
and it looks like Aperture desk job doesn't have them either but it might've never had them
oh wait no nvm, april 7 was when they were removed
a battle amongst gods
real pecan
The two faces of man
sinful pawn
anyway since it seems most of their modern games don't have them and they're removing them from their live service games I assume that its just some weird internal change, either one that steamdb just detects as them removing their depot name or just a change for valve
dota got them removed yesterday
sullen venture
I have some questions for you...
sinful pawn
thats on aperture desk lab
molten spade
HL2 explosions were essentially the explosions from beta so it makes sense
Just retextured
sinful pawn
community store tags
crude anchor
context?
sinful pawn
on what
crude anchor
the images
crude anchor
what's that
real pecan
Fun fact
kilburn worked on the binding of isaac repentance and iron bomber bombs are in the game as an easter egg
crude anchor
yo ladders in tf2
broken quest
yo ladders in tf2
I wonder why valve never added ledders to the game
It's too late to do it now
crude anchor
too complex for tf2's movement
it would be nice for zombie escape maps
joshua mentioned that we could use ziplines
honestly i want to try that
like the ziplines from fortnite
it sounds fun
molten spade
too complex for tf2's movement
Not really
Works just fine at least in pf2
Just move up or do ladder trick
Ladders are just always awkward in source
broken quest
he was being ironic
molten spade
Mfw can’t read emotion in text 
broken quest
The real reason is that the tf team probably forgot about ladders (or just thought that they weren't good for map design) and they used them solely as props
so the first maps added to the game didn't have functional ladders
sinful pawn
its probably by choice that they're not in tf2
probably because they're jank, slow, and stairs just do it better
broken quest
so the first maps added to the game didn't have functional ladders
to keep the tradition going and not to confuse new players ladders were never added into any other official map
broken quest
Mfw can’t read emotion in text <:spai:1041531030730973224>
The irony is visible when he says that they are too complex
frigid needleBOT
broken quest
TF2 is known for having extremely diverse movement mechanics
Like airstrafing and bhopping and rocket jumping
which are all significantly harder to pull off than holding W at a wall
molten spade
broken quest
molten spade
broken quest
<:steamhappy:1058097002308714557>
I would beat the fuck out of this emote if it was real and I met it on the street
molten spade
I love that little guy
proper umbra
like the ziplines from fortnite
dont like them
i think itd be cooler to have indestructible teleporters instead
easier to implement and you avoid potential gameplay issues
zip lines would just be weird to have imo in a game like tf2
proper umbra
my point is that in a game like tf2 they wouldnt fit in
merry falcon
i agree;
proper umbra
whos joshua
merry falcon
@crude anchor who's joshua
real pecan
Contractor
merry falcon
that one
proper umbra
oh
well idont think its a good idea joshua
what purpose would a zipline serve joshua
if ur map needs a zipline ur map is shit!!!
proper umbra
rename yourself to "zipline fan"
lavish gust
how would you feel about this balance change:
- removed random critical hits
- increased the base damage of every weapon by 300%
- added random fumbling hits. every player has a 98% random chance of 'fumbling' their shots, dealing 1/3 base damage. chance is reduced the more damage you have dealt in a 20 time window, at minimum 90%.
molten spade
how would you feel about this balance change:
- removed random critical hits
- ...
Test it in comtress
real pecan
Percs
astral jungle
People don't owe valve money lord
people still spent thousands on keys and crates, even more than usual on that day
valve doesn't get money from people unboxing unusuals
it doesn't make a fucking difference
2$ is still 2$ per key
unboxing an unusual doesn't mean valve loses 2000$
it's the same shit as saying piracy costs companies millions
when they are not owed money that wasn't going to see them anyway
the economy only exists to make people gamble more
every single unusual from valve's end always gives them 2$
but they never lose money
the fact that people trade them for hundreds is completely irrelevant to valve because they are not seeing that money ever
they don't take a cut from trades
only the community market which is entirely community influenced
God fucking damn this was over 2 years ago this is so low effort even from the clickbait title
Can't make people pay money they don't have. case in point.
broken quest
how would you feel about this balance change:
- removed random critical hits
- ...
You should make num fumbled hits have no fall off
and also make them shiny
to compensate for their rarity
astral jungle
tl;dr
every single time a key gets generated from the mann co store by spending real money THAT'S WHERE THE TRANSACTION WITH VALVE ENDS.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT.
people are willingly choosing to give valve 2$ for no reason every single day
sinful pawn
if they meant that valve lost some potential profits i could maybe see that pov but like...
no one sells unusuals on the community market anyway
so the money they made off of people buying crates in droves and keys off the shop probably well exceeded the money they potentially "lost" by unusual value on the community market dropping
astral jungle
if they meant that valve lost some potential profits i could maybe see that pov ...
yeah, all I'm just saying is that potential money does not equal lost money
broken quest
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1001066550335385671/1069024737205944391/MedalTVTeamFortress220230128190333.mp4
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1001066550335385671/1069024738065797230/MedalTVTeamFortress220230128190515.mp4
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1001066550335385671/1069024740053897257/MedalTVTeamFortress220230128190243.mp4
sullen venture
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1001066550335385671/1069024737205944391...
640x360
sullen venture
how? I thought tf2 crashes at dimensions lower than 480p?
that's just because I use low recording settings
wary flax
explaim
wary flax
weird
broken quest
using good quality settings for recording
wary flax
recording doesn't affect my fps
broken quest
good for you
wary flax
but then again I record at like 150mbps with minimal encoding
lol
I do auto demos so I don't have to be recording if I get a good play, I can just replay the demo later to record the play
wary flax
good for you
what gpu do you have?
broken quest
idk
wary flax
huh
most modern gpus can do gpu encoding which massively improves performance
I don't think obs has it enabled by default
obs is inefficient in general
wary flax
ya that's because the default settings are bad
u want to enable gpu encoding but even then I think it does realtime color profile adjustments which also decreases fps (but I could be totally wrong about that, but it's also my only explanation to why recording in raw uses so much cpu lol)
I use nvidia shadowplay but I know not every gpu has it
sullen venture
I use nvidia shadowplay but I know not every gpu has it
integrated GPU
wary flax
I think intel has gpu encoding for integrated gpus but it could just be decoding
sullen venture
I think intel has gpu encoding for integrated gpus but it could just be decoding
It's supports it, but it killed my recording fps when i last tried it
wary flax
sullen venture
wtf is that thing
wary flax
cat\
winged cloud
i dont use obs i use medal
In terms of performance and file size, Insights.gg is significantly better
Medal has almost no customization for selecting things in the encoders
And Insights.gg was the only clipping/capture software that was able to distinguish tf2 properly
And the file size mama mia
With "nvenc (new)" 20 seconds, 720p 60fps 4k bitrate and the size being only 10-15 mbyte???
And there is virtually no performance loss
I would like to say that it's on par with Nvidia shadowplay
Plus medaltv is bloated as fuck
weak swan
so i've been wondering
there have been programs could convert demos to replays in the past
demor is one example
doesn't seem to work anymore though
would that be fixable, or something completely new that does the same thing be creatable
replays are significantly better in several ways and its unfortunate you can't really use its ui for demos
wary flax
merry falcon
🤯
wary flax
I hope the contractor will also add dxvk and update the libraries in an upcoming update 🙏
proper umbra
h...h.hhh....heavy update....
winged cloud
I hope the contractor will also add dxvk and update the libraries in an upcoming...
is this real?
or are you shitting us
well dxvk will only matter for linux
or am i wrong?
wary flax
Go to the shounic discord server if you don't believe me.
winged cloud
well dxvk will only matter for linux
^
am i wrong?
i dont actually know, thats why im asking this
merry falcon
having a second option for whatever reason is nice 🙂
broken quest
In terms of performance and file size, Insights.gg is significantly better
will consider it
so far I don't really care that much if my clips look like dogshit
sullen venture
well dxvk will only matter for linux
Well, i think we know the solution here
winged cloud
no thanks 
crude anchor
bro we need at least another blue moon update
crude anchor
i mean if they aren't willing to make balance changes, they could at least tweak 2 or 3 weapons
broken quest
there is a lot more that needs tweaking than 2 or 3 weapons
proper umbra
major tf2 update: all stock sniper rifles and huntsmans were switched around
huntsman is now sniper stock
real pecan
major tf2 update: all stock sniper rifles and huntsmans were switched around
The Sniper Rifle
+Fires bullets
+25% maximum charge damage
+90% ammo capacity
broken quest
bad already
idc they wrangler and made engineer faster
proper umbra
you think i want to press z and then stretch my entire hand to press the 8 key
broken quest
instead of this how about a chat wheel
a what
proper umbra
a chat wheel
real pecan
tf2 should get the ping system left for dead and csgo got
real pecan
screen completely filled with scouts pinging for a dispenser
broken quest
a chat wheel
like among us' quickchat?
proper umbra
i dont knoqw
sullen venture
Literally impossible to implement without custom client code afaik
broken quest
yeah lmfao
real pecan
Can't be too hard to implement a chat wheel with vgui
sullen venture
Can't be too hard to implement a chat wheel with vgui
requires client code
proper umbra
wait is this like
broken quest
That sounds obnoxiously convoluted
proper umbra
for someones server
real pecan
in the scenario where valve wanted to add one
proper umbra
like someone implemented this already
broken quest
for someones server
yes
sullen venture
Yes
broken quest
like someone implemented this already
yes
proper umbra
or is this just a bunch of fantasy changes
ah ok
i was shitting on it because i assumed someone was fantasizing about epic tf2 changes
doubt anyone's playing this, though
ngl mann vs machine
i think weapons in regular tf2 and mvm should have different stats
mvm weapons can afford to be overpowered and ridicilous because youre not playing against other players
theres nobody to compete against
proper umbra
because people are losers who hate fun
sullen venture
(massive understatement)
proper umbra
its mvm
broken quest
i think weapons in regular tf2 and mvm should have different stats
this sounds dumb
MVM's biggest trouble-makers are like, canteens, ScotRes, EH and weapons that are already op in the base game
Also baggers aswell
broken quest
because people are losers who hate fun
gas passer is just kind bad
proper umbra
i dont care if you think it sounds dumb
i will do things my way
some of these are nice
like the drinks needing to actually charge up to be used
but this sounds stupid
this is just a medieval mode weapon now
proper umbra
okay
remove the damage bonus and give him ammo back
the extra health should probably be gone too
make it the fire boston basher
if you miss you set yourself on fire
boom
broken quest
that's a significantly worse version of the basher
proper umbra
just a boston basher but it sets things on fire instead of bleeding
merry falcon
boston basher but worse ??!?!?
proper umbra
how is it worse
broken quest
afterburn doesn't give you enough self damage to properly uber build
or basher jump
proper umbra
the self damage and damage jumps come from hitting yourself, not from the bleed self damage
proper umbra
then maybe im not making it obvious enough that by it being similar to the boston basher it would obviously mean that instead of it being self damage + self bleed it's self damage + self burn
broken quest
reworking weapons to be copies of each other is a bad principle
proper umbra
but you have to admit that what i just came up with is straight up better than turning the sun on a stick into a medieval mode only weapon
proper umbra
youre being unreasonable and i will not speak to you on this matter again
merry falcon
medieval mode only weapons 🤔
proper umbra
if you think that is a good rework of the sun on a stick youre being unreasonable and i dont see a point in talking to you anymore
merry falcon
broken quest
I could use basher and never have to bother with the SOAS again, instead of having a basher and this weird asf subclass melee
proper umbra
no offense
broken quest
if you think that is a good rework of the sun on a stick youre being unreasonabl...
I never said it was a good rework
I said yours was worse
broken quest
it's a copy from another weapon
proper umbra
its still better than whatever that is
broken quest
it doesn't add anything for the game
broken quest
its still better than whatever that is
I don't think so
proper umbra
okay but does it have to
broken quest
yes
proper umbra
thats my question
alright hows this
we rework the basher and we turn the sun on a stick into my version of the sun on a stick
sun on a stick users building up ubers and shit will be vulnurable to flare snipes or something
broken quest
no? the basher is fine
proper umbra
how about that
plus itd be a significant nerf to uber building as afterburn runs out faster when youre being healed
while bleed does not
broken quest
the uber building does not need a nerf
proper umbra
you wanted changes to add something to the game
this adds something to the game
it slows down uber building a bit
broken quest
yeah good ones preferably
proper umbra
how would that change the game
broken quest
it slows down uber building a bit
I don't think that's a good change
proper umbra
because
broken quest
uber building being fast is good because ubers stop stalemate
uber building has never been a problem
proper umbra
you are ignorant in your ways of always sticking to the same known way of doing things
youve never thought to think of how things could change if you were to change the circumstances
how would people adapt to the changes
what kind of new meta will arise and whether it would make it more interesting
you dont know for sure
broken quest
it's an unneeded change, best case scenario nothing changes, worst case scenario the pace of the game is worse
proper umbra
if it impacts uber building too much then we can patch the sun on a stick to make you more vulnurable to fire
and the basher
i dont know about the basher were not talking about the basher
frigid needleBOT
proper umbra
were talking about the cooler sun on a stick
broken quest
if it impacts uber building too much then we can patch the sun on a stick to mak...
then it's a nothing change?
guys hear me out BANGER LIBERTY LAUNCHER REWORK IDEA
+25 max health but, you get -25 max health
thoughts?
proper umbra
the burden of the sun on a stick is that it's a fire themed weapon
frigid needleBOT
proper umbra
so people try to design stats and mechanics around it that relate to fire in some way
broken quest
yeah thats why its so fucking hard lmfao
proper umbra
whereas the boston basher has a more wide theme with less restrictions
frigid needleBOT
proper umbra
so you would have more avenues to explore with what the weapon could do
which is why making the sun on a stick into the boston basher (with afterburn instead of bleed) while making the boston basher something else would solve the sun on a stick problem
it totally makes sense
like you cant say im wrong
broken quest
that's a solution but I think it's a tad inconvenient, HiGPS made something similar where he made the Hot Hand the movement meleee for pyro and reworked the powerjack to something else, turns out it was very incovenient for players and confusing aswell, also it diminishes the weapon's identity
I am not saying it's a bad solution but I am not too found of it either
proper umbra
i mean in all fairness those who do not read balance changes suffer a lot
right now im thinking more what a valve dev could do instead of what some community server could do
and what you could do is have a little ℹ️ icon near a weapon which says that it recently had balance changes
this would be a good thing if the game was updated often enough to use it but yeah
also imo the hot hand should never be a real weapon
it should just be a stock reskin or just straight up a bad weapon
i think theres nothing wrong with a class having like a bad melee weapon
because i think itd be funny to kill someone with the Shit Weapon
plus kill feed announcer
but thats just me
sullen venture
It would be another fish
proper umbra
the hot hand should have a more slappy sound effect tho
and idk
add salt on the wound and change the text on the screenshot of the guy who killed you to say like
idk
you were slapped by player
i remember i always wanted there to be an ice themed pyro
frigid needleBOT
proper umbra
though itd be visual hell
maybe as a cosmetic like pyroland goggles
so those who want to see it can see it
real pecan
It would be cool if the flamethrower medic debuff wasnt completely fubar
sinful pawn
am i wrong?
*i dont actually know, thats why im asking this*
dxvk is usable on windows, and from what i’ve seen of it in other source games, it does seem to help quite a bit in terms of performance on some cases
wary flax
tf is this
sullen venture
tf is this
Its a UFO
wary flax
true...
sullen venture
But actually, why does this happen...
winged cloud
dxvk is usable on windows, and from what i’ve seen of it in other source games, ...
Oho?
That gives me hope hehe
Well not that I have performance problems
But I would like to see how well it runs
merry falcon
But I would like to see how well it runs
very
winged cloud
yesyes
crude anchor
But I would like to see how well it runs
it is gonna run worse when not in combat
according to other games where dxvk was implemented (csgo, l4d2)
and, of course, a lot of bugs
sullen venture
Well, it's almost certainly going to be a command line option
winged cloud
We will see
If I recall correctly the contractor has lots of experience in that category
sinful pawn
iirc they've been the person implementing it in all of valve's games
winged cloud
Yesyes
wary flax
it is gonna run worse when not in combat
y
real pecan
That does make me hopeful tf2 gets dxvk
sullen venture
it is gonna run worse when not in combat
source?
winged cloud
"I made it the fuck up"
sinful pawn
source: crackpipe
sullen venture
🤦♀️
real pecan
tf2 hasnt gotten source 2 yet
sullen venture
I KNOW
real pecan
Sorry
winged cloud
Will be still interesting if it has the mentioned problems
sinful pawn
we need a translation layer to port vulkan back to dx so we can use dxvk on source 2
sullen venture
we need a translation layer to port vulkan back to dx so we can use dxvk on sour...
source 2 dx8
winged cloud
source 2 dx8 <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
Please don't say something like that, you are scaring my children away
real pecan
I thought of something even more cursed
sullen venture
Please don't say something like that, you are scaring my children away
good
real pecan
translation layer from vulkan to dx7 for rtx effects, than pass through dxvk
winged cloud
Isn't vulkan a pain anyways?
sinful pawn
dx8 supports it too, it just has to be fixed function iirc
real pecan
Oh
winged cloud
I heard like it's so much more complex than directx
sullen venture
So?
real pecan
Twitter
sullen venture
I heard like it's so much more complex than directx
Why would it matter?
winged cloud
Dunno, makes it less attractive to new devs or old devs to migrate to vulkan
I mean I don't really do any of this anyways
Just interesting to see Ig
sullen venture
source isn't migrating to vulkan really though
sinful pawn
honestly vulkan is just a better thing to strive for over DX because of being crossplatform
real pecan
tfw directx was originally codenamed the manhattan project because it was microsoft's plan to upset japanese gaming dominance
sinful pawn
wtf
winged cloud
Bruh
real pecan
The project was codenamed the Manhattan Project, as in relation to the World War II project of the same name, the idea was to displace the Japanese-developed video game consoles with personal computers running Microsoft's operating system. It had initially used the radiation symbol as its logo but Microsoft asked the team to change the logo.
winged cloud
honestly vulkan is just a better thing to strive for over DX because of being cr...
Yea
real pecan
Wikipedia
real pecan
Action scenes with a lot of players and unusual effects are the biggest perf problem in the game so that doesn't sound too bad
sullen venture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X70kSLOV2LA
This is comparing native DX to DXVK, and it's also comparing source 1 (which doesn't have a native vulkan renderer) to source 2 (which does)
sinful pawn
had a thought last night
if MYM and JI (mostly JI) were actually successful
where would valve go, lore-wise, with content updates?
JI basically leads directly into the Ring of Fired comic, where grey mann takes over mann co and fires the mercs
would they retcon stuff? would they kinda just lightly add lore and not be very clear about when things are happening?
sullen venture
would they retcon stuff? would they kinda just lightly add lore and not be very ...
It's not like they would need to do stuff in chronological order
We haven't even got the last comic
sinful pawn
yeah but in the past its been very linear aside from MVM
sullen venture
I suppose they could just do something after MvM
real pecan
I envisioned a jungle inferno 2.0 where mann co takes their fighting parks internationally and into space with asteroid
Game could use some more international maps
sullen venture
I envisioned a jungle inferno 2.0 where mann co takes their fighting parks inter...
But mann co gets taken over by grey mann
sullen venture
"just retcon stuff" 😭
real pecan
I mean, the only tangible link is the whole yeti extinction thing iirc
I admit the timing is tight
winged cloud
If only the Invasion update wouldn't have gone poop
We would have get alot of community updates
real pecan
I mildly regret not getting the coin for collector's sake
lavish gust
jungle inferno was a community update too kinda
it was meant to be for the mayann update stuff
but more managed by valve
which imo is better but they really need a better way of managing updates like that
winged cloud
I'm unsure how big the scales of both where tho
But, imo if the Invasion update wouldn't be such a disaster (in means of background stuff)
We may have gotten more
Or I might be just wrong
Who knows
sinful pawn
I honestly don't know much about invasion
I wasn't playing at the time, so i've heard that it was a disaster but idk how much contorl the community had over it
lavish gust
i dont think so because its all up to valve's activity and investment
lavish gust
I wasn't playing at the time, so i've heard that it was a disaster but idk how m...
it was like every other community update
sinful pawn
ok but idk what that was like either lol
lavish gust
community sends the items, update page, blog, video, etc all to valve
and they upload it
proper umbra
how exactly was the invasion update a disaster btw remind me
i forgot everything about it
lavish gust
because valve made the update page, video, blog, manually chose things, provided assets
sinful pawn
ahh i see
proper umbra
did u know thatu r face just makes an evil expression when u say money
proper umbra
like look at yourself in the mirror, say any other words and then say money
lavish gust
basically it was
lavish gust
the 2 leads
took a bigger percentage of the money coming in from the update
or were set to
and then a creator complained on reddit anonymously
or multiple
it got really bad
eric got informed of the shit show
he emailed them being very stern and said valve would have to manage the income and theyd no longer be doing community updates
and instead they'd be looking at stuff and taking what they want from a chosen theme
winged cloud
Ahhh
lavish gust
and that email wasnt supposed to be leaked either
sinful pawn
and instead they'd be looking at stuff and taking what they want from a chosen t...
so in other words, JI
lavish gust
so valve got more upset
locked down stuff even more
then JI happened
because before they were like
community updates themes will be managed by the community,
so people can decide a theme
and then if it gets popular and people independently contribute to the public theme
we'll make an update out of it
so there was like
mayann, frontline
i might be getting stuff wrong
winged cloud
A remember those
winged cloud
Frontline and mayann
sinful pawn
frontline is a disaster too, but for other reasons and thats another story
lavish gust
nope, community doesnt do themes anymore
winged cloud
Unfortunate
lavish gust
so they announce the jungle theme
sinful pawn
not a disaster as in like bad blood just a pain to use
just to clarify, the issue with frontline is that there's no full list of who made what asset
winged cloud
O h
sinful pawn
we know who made some of them but others are unknown, so if you want to use them on a workshop map you'll need to credit the entire frontline team just to make sure you got the right person
which of course means more cuts
so most people avoid the frontline assets for maps they want to upload to the workshop
sinful pawn
alpine is maps like cascade, altitude
winged cloud
Brrrrrrrr brain explodes
sinful pawn
its not a community theme or anything its just a general theme like spytech
winged cloud
A
sinful pawn
i wonder if the map i'm working on rn would count as alpine 🤔
frigid needleBOT
lavish gust
we need more teufort maps
lavish gust
shut up
real pecan
here's an aight 2fort style map
proper umbra
such a miserable gamemode
winged cloud
Well
lavish gust
sinful pawn
i wish rd got finished and used cause its just better ctf tbh
winged cloud
No one told you to play 2fort
proper umbra
i LOVE dustbowl though
sinful pawn
maybe a bit too confusing for new players tho
winged cloud
i wish rd got finished and used cause its just better ctf tbh
Yeees
lavish gust
2fort is the best map in the game
proper umbra
i think rd never got finished cuz they lost motivation after finding out the guy who made watergate made a better version of rd
winged cloud
And 80% of the time players wouldn't do the objective anyways
real pecan
aesthetically, 2fort is definitely one of the best
winged cloud
Which made it extra dun
sinful pawn
rd never got finished because the mapper left valve
winged cloud
Fun
lavish gust
i think rd never got finished cuz they lost motivation after finding out the guy...
it never got finished because it's the space theme
proper umbra
like i think they had so much planned for rd and then suddenly this dude comes out with a better version of ur gamemode
sinful pawn
watergate was way later
winged cloud
Oh
sinful pawn
ye there's references to unique space movement stuff
like jetpacks for each class which would have different speeds
broken quest
2fort is the best map in the game
cp_cloak
proper umbra
doesnt sound very fun ill be honest
crude anchor
it never got finished because it's the space theme
what abut cactus cannyon?
proper umbra
i would tell you more about cactus canyon but
lavish gust
cactus canyon didnt get finishes because only programmers work on tf2 now
proper umbra
i must abide by certain restrictions
sinful pawn
didn't both the mappers for those beta maps leave the company
or was it the same mapper for both maps
winged cloud
Hmn
sinful pawn
weird thing i just noticed, coaltown only has 5 spawns in each spawn room, and the latest iterations of raid mode had references to 5 players rather than 6
sullen venture
coaltown was made for raid mode? 🤔
sinful pawn
or at the very least, the change to 6 players was pretty late in dev
wary flax
what is raid mode
sinful pawn
scrapped precursor to MVM
sullen venture
scrapped mode for tf2
sullen venture
sinful pawn
I think its unlikely coaltown was raid mode, since its very, well, made for players to defend
i think its just more likely they swapped from 5 players to 6 at some point late in dev
proper umbra
tcrf
sullen venture
@sinful pawn "raid_test.vmf" what are you making?
sinful pawn
vscript remake of raid mode
well
"remake"
more like take the base idea of raid mode and try and make it good
sullen venture
👀
sinful pawn
speaking of, i actually just posted this video in the tf2m discord
sullen venture
if you don't include npc_archer i will be sad
sullen venture
😭
sinful pawn
its just a huntsman sniper
sinful pawn
anyway this is a functioning rescue closet, with glows for the player inside
sullen venture
cool, but why is he conga-ing
sinful pawn
I needed an animation just to make sure I knew how to make it play an anim lol
sullen venture
lol
sinful pawn
its a dynamic prop so that the player can keep spectating while they're stuck in there
sullen venture
oh nice
sinful pawn
rn the rescue closet is missing the player calling out for help and the code that determines which closet to actually use
sullen venture
make it the furthest one from everyone else
sullen venture
how does it pick the closet to use?
It seems like its the closest one, but i'm not sure
sinful pawn
its based off of incursion distance
which is precomputed distance from spawn points in the navmesh
sullen venture
ah
sinful pawn
I thought vscript could access incursion distance but I checked and now i'm not so sure...
sullen venture
oh cool theres still code left
sinful pawn
yeah
hmm
I might need to basically hack together my own incursion distance, which sucks
sullen venture
It seems like it just calculates the number of nav areas from the spawn
Is the navmesh accessible to vscript?
sinful pawn
yeah but incursion distance isn't
good vid showing it off
or at least how it kinda works
sullen venture
CTFNavMesh::ComputeIncursionDistances
I mean could you not just yoink the code for it and port it to squirrel?
frigid needleBOT
sinful pawn
yeah thats kinda what i meant by hacking it together
sinful pawn
yeah but it also kinda sucks because i can't just directly access a nav area and check the incursion distance
i'd need to use the nav area ID as an index to get the incursion data stored elsewhere
sinful pawn
i guess not
but i've had a lot of trouble with vscript lol
like this rescue closet took days
sullen venture
ouch
Well, i just spent a week trying to figure out a bug in some of my code lol
...so maybe i'm not the best at telling what's simple or not 😅
sinful pawn
¯_(ツ)_/¯
i guess i'll find out how simple it is
one slight grace in this case is that the nav mesh attribute of RESCUE_CLOSET still exists
so i can use that to help gauge distance
sullen venture
one slight grace in this case is that the nav mesh attribute of `RESCUE_CLOSET` ...
If it wasn't, you could just have reused something else
sinful pawn
well, true, but i'd rather not potentially step on the toes of other code
I was originally planning on storing an index in a trigger entity's keyvalues, but decided it'd be better to just store that in code instead
crude anchor
wary flax
tf2 chat with outline instead of shadow is awesome
winged cloud
tf2 chat with outline instead of shadow is awesome
Looks pretty good
Tho that's alot of pink
spark wadi
How's my Medic
merry falcon
How's my Medic
thats amedic
spark wadi
Good
wary flax
merry falcon
why. how
wary flax
they are the ultimate being
sinful pawn
powerplay
spark wadi
Aw shit, ping
Sorry
spark wadi
Ultimate Uber Medic
Stronger than Doctor 🇸 🇪 🇽
spark wadi
thats doctor sex himself
Fair call
real pecan
Pro strats
sullen venture
getting close
nice
sullen venture
these are the only 2 that got evaluated for some reason
wtf
sinful pawn
I do have to do some hack-y things in a few places because of vscript limitations
like
there's 2 nav attribute types
regular (default source engine) and TF
the TF nav attributes is missing 2 functions
GetAreasWithAttributes doesn't have a TF version
so i have to manually iterate through all the nav areas to get the ones with the right attribs myself
already reported that on the github, hopefully that gets fixed soon
sinful pawn
also note that the incursion distances here are wrong
gotta figure that out too
both of them are ~800 but both are inside the blue spawn
the one on the left should be 0
sullen venture
is the left one where the thing starts?
sinful pawn
yeah
sullen venture
huh
sinful pawn
I might be using the wrong length function?
sullen venture
Maybe you're getting the distance between the points?
isn't incursion distance the number of areas between spawn and the area?
sinful pawn
i'm about 99% sure its distance
yeah here's the official incursion
390 for blue much more closely matches the distance from the center of each navarea
hm thats the REALLY wrong function lmao
so length is wrong but lengthSqr is super wrong
my inputs have to be wrong somehow
sullen venture
Is the center of the nav area different from the spawn point?
sinful pawn
yeah
but i'm not using the spawn point at all
the spawn point is just used to give the nav area it is in an attribute telling it that it is a spawn room
its actually a combination of a spawn entity and func_respawnroom that determines that, but thats besides the point
sullen venture
Well, what i meant was are the points different
sinful pawn
hm i think I maybe see the issue? it looks like valve is using the length of the actual connection (see this light blue line) whereas i'm using the center
sullen venture
huh
sinful pawn
its not really helpful here, but more so for navareas where the connection is not like
along the edge
sullen venture
you're right it does use the connection
sinful pawn
ye i'm looking at their code rn
the problem is that I don't get access to the connections
sinful pawn
no but i'd definitely like it to be similar
I might be able to hack something together?
sullen venture
how are connection lengths calculated?
sullen venture
con.length = ( area->GetCenter() - GetCenter() ).Length();
oh come on fiend
why did you get to it first :(
sinful pawn
lmao i'm sorry
sullen venture
lol
sinful pawn
that was it too
the worst part is i was about to go to the bathroom while i was waiting for VS to search cause it was taking a bit
and then it finished and i just looked at it
sullen venture
lmao
real pecan
why did jungle inferno break demos
sinful pawn
FINALLY, SUCCESS
this took so long
because i just like
was constantly putting things in the wrong place
only mild performance concerns
(this is with only 19 nav areas)
crude anchor
is matchmaking broken rn?
sinful pawn
i was worried cause it took a bit but it worked after ~30 seconds on my map selection
sinful pawn
FINALLY, SUCCESS
still some work to be done though, some of the areas don't have debug text for some reason?
also i have some stuff hardcoded
crude anchor
don't you like when something makes an entire server to crash their clients?
broken quest
can't believe how well this loadout worked out
broken quest
god i hate spread of the revolver
It's really not that bad
All it does is stop you from holding down m1 at mid range
broken quest
that's bs
Gun spies can still kick ass and even put pressure against unaware combat classes
Revolver spread is fine
old tusk
Eh, tbh buffing spy's revolver wouldnt be the worst. Dude is pretty much useless against actual players and no one bothers to use his gun. But also buffing that wouldn't "fix" him so idk what im on about
winged cloud
Revolver spread is fine
agreed
lyric vale
did you hear of the new hud website by the creator of mastercomfig?
crude anchor
who is that person?
merry falcon
did you hear of the new hud website by the creator of mastercomfig?
whats a website
old tusk
What’s a hud?
broken quest
Wtf are you talking about
broken quest
Since i created my discord account i have done nothing but write straight up fire
Irl i am the class clown
merry falcon
goof* bit
turbid vigil
i would give my life for a good bit
merry falcon
wtf
turbid vigil
i poopy myself
proper umbra
uncletopia players dont vote for payload maps (IMPOSSIBLE)
frigid needleBOT
proper umbra
all these deranged insane people do in their lives is just play payload until they die
im so fucking hard i cant wait to play badwater for the 29th time today
old tusk
Wut in tarnation
proper umbra
proper umbra
they have a no payload server but nobodys playing on it lol
proper umbra
because theyre deranged psychos
winged cloud
wouldn't go that far
I guess they just main payload
just like how in 6s or in any format that you would play
you play a map 3 or 4 times
until it comes out of your ears
turbid vigil
all these deranged insane people do in their lives is just play payload until th...
best game mode
proper umbra
it fucking sucks
its ok but im tired of always playing it
uncletopia players dont play anything else its just payload
frigid needleBOT
turbid vigil
it's because they've only watched ankle dane's blueprints for pl
broken quest
And Insights.gg was the only clipping/capture software that was able to distingu...
can you send
the thingy
🥺
broken quest
it only runs with overwolf
What's that?
broken quest
Lovely explanation
sullen venture
lmao
astral jungle
thanks great blue
this is the most on the nose political commentary I've ever seen lmao
and this is a scout secondary
can't believe it was a follow up to scout primary based on baseballs called curveball
from tame to spicy
broken quest
What does sv_mpreg 1 do?
sullen venture
What does sv_mpreg 1 do?
it enables mpreg mode
sinful pawn
decided to do a stress test on a big mvm map since I was worried that this would be too slow (i was getting warnings of the function taking 70ms on a tiny test map)
sullen venture
You got incursion dists working?
sinful pawn
it was working last night
anyway it turns out that the main bottlneck of performance was just printl calls i had for debug
sullen venture
lol
sinful pawn
doing the entirety of bigrock, with this debug display was still faster than my test map with all my debug prints
sinful pawn
yeah lol
sullen venture
how didn't i notice until now
sinful pawn
lowered the debug text timer from 10000 seconds to 60 lol
I wanted something permanent
oh wait
sinful pawn
yeah i thought this kind of thing didn't exist lol
sullen venture
if it didn't you could have just created new debug text every frame
i think thats how some debug overlays in tf2 do it
sinful pawn
on bigrock, with the debug text, 86ms
sullen venture
frametime?
sinful pawn
so actually a tiny bit slower than my test map, which was around 70ms
sinful pawn
yeah
and i was super worried that if that on a real map that speed would cause it to go over the limit that vscript has on time spent on a function and cancel it
sullen venture
how long does it take if you turn off debug overlays
sinful pawn
I might not know, it seems to only tell me frametimes if it goes "a bit too long"
sullen venture
i wonder if you can do your own time calculation
is there a function to get current time in vscript?
sullen venture
nice
sinful pawn
not helpful :/
sinful pawn
it might be in seconds
ran it without debug a few times
first time was a bit long but still not terrible
I doubt the large majority of maps would go over 150ms
sullen venture
its a one time calculation right?
sinful pawn
depends on the map
well
idk actually
depending on how i use it i might need to recalculate it per round (if each round has a different stage)
sullen venture
calculate it whenever spawns change ig?
sinful pawn
but considering to my knowledge "too long" to vscript is past 1 second
this isn't terrible
hm actually it may end up going a bit longer
just remembered i have this setup to only do blue team as a test
in some extra functions get added to vscript this will likely get sped up a bit
since i do have to hack together a few things
sullen venture
no JIT in vscript i guess
sinful pawn
wdym
merry falcon
i think thats how some debug overlays in tf2 do it
i love me some debugoverlay interface
sullen venture
i love me some debugoverlay interface
VDEBUG_OVERLAY_INTERFACE_VERSION 
merry falcon
VDEBUG_OVERLAY_INTERFACE_VERSION <:comfig_heart:742438405220073539>
why are you sending me interface versionm definition
merry falcon
VDEBUG_OVERLAY_INTERFACE_VERSION <:comfig_heart:742438405220073539>
its VENGINE_DEBUGOVERLAY_INTERFACE_VERSION.
sullen venture
no it isn't
sullen venture
i'm always right
merry falcon
😭
sullen venture
merry falcon
quality=lossless
sullen venture
"lossless"
@turbid vigil oh my god you've been playing bash for a day
go touch some grass
sullen venture
wah
turbid vigil
i've been in bash too long
status
merry falcon
i've been in bash too long
use fih
sullen venture
thats what i'm saying!
proper umbra
sullen venture
the source of glub is glub
turbid vigil
go use fish
good idea
i just...need to figure out how to get rich presence working on flatpak discord
i don't even have a bash prompt open
i just registered the process in the background of discord's sandbox as a game
spark wadi
How well does Linux run TF2?
I mean, the OS doesn't affect hardware, but it'll stutter a bit less because of the extra RAM Linux saves, right?
merry falcon
How well does Linux run TF2?
I mean, the OS doesn't affect hardware, but it'll s...
may run better overall
merry falcon
just install bare minimum everything and land on 600 mb ram usage 🧌
spark wadi
I mean, currently, running a few tabs of Firefox, discord, and TF2 is enough to bring my ram to 90-98 percent
sullen venture
That wont really be helped by linux
spark wadi
It eats 4 GB idle
merry falcon
That would be really helped by linux.
merry falcon
It eats 4 GB idle
wtf
spark wadi
That wont really be helped by linux
Fair
Well, that makes sense
It's not like installing Linux is going to put a powerful processor into my PC
merry falcon
how much ram you got
merry falcon
yeah ok i lived with that for 3 years
spark wadi
It's a laptop, so it's not like I can get a stick or two
merry falcon
before that i lived w ith 4 for god knows years
spark wadi
before that i lived w ith 4 for god knows years
Damn
merry falcon
keep it or doulbei t and give it to the next perosn? ?? ⁉️
sinful pawn
iirc generally linux tf2 runs a bit better than windows
it does not support dx8 though, so if you want dx8 visuals you're SoL
spark wadi
I don't really mind
Only thing I liked about DX8 was its Medigun effects
wary flax
is it normal to have 24 loss in net_graph 3?