Ruy Lopez vs Italian Opening

[wicked girder]

and why the italian

[bronze trellis]

ruy lopez period

[molten cipher]

what is that

[round prism]

ruy mid

[rapid cove]

ITalian

[wind summit]

better tactics

[rapid cove]

Good

[molten cipher]

first

[hidden abyss]

cause its cool

[round prism]

Not learning allat!

[honest jackal]

yes

[pine marten]

Scotch!!!!!

[bleak iron]

Ruy mid

[molten cipher]

btw

[graceful pine]

fried livering noobs

[cunning zealot]

italian got better tactics

[coral tinsel]

evan gambit

[sage perch]

best

[hollow tendon]

superior nation

[icy umbra]

lol

[cunning zealot]

good

[stoic jackal]

Italian is better

[crystal flicker]

RUY LOPEZ

[little venture]

scam

[still viper]

Kyz

[cunning zealot]

fried liver

[jolly hinge]

e4 e5 ☹️🔫

[quick crypt]

Nimzowitch larsen

[wicked girder]

Ruy Lopez vs Italian Opening

[vast crest]

Ruy pin and ruins pawn structure

[vital obsidian]

Ruy Lopez Superior because i studied it more

[cunning zealot]

Lopez is good

[harsh iron]

Lopez without a doubt

[willow summit]

bruh wut. Ruy Lopez is negative elo chess

[wind summit]

italian has better tactics, more chances, and ruy lopez is for old ppl

[gritty river]

objectively ruy there's a reason it's more popular lol

[trail pebble]

Option 3: d4

[crystal flicker]

ITALIAN IS BS

[molten cipher]

look at the top

[sharp belfry]

Litaly

[stiff hemlock]

i am italian but i like the ruy lopez

[wicked girder]

RUY MID

[sterile robin]

i choose ruy and italian idk why xD

[spark sonnet]

Italian has Fried Liver, and it's a really good beginner opening. It's pretty easy to waste moves trying to save the bishop in the Spanish versus the Italian. Plus the Italian is a bit easier to play since you don't need to know quite as much theory to have a good position.

[merry chasm]

italian by far

[unreal saffron]

Fried liver+gambits+not boring+easy to learn

[cunning zealot]

Italian because I know it the most

[crystal flicker]

ITALIAN TRASH

[little venture]

Anitta was first though

[flat spoke]

I bet people that like ruy lopez here don't know how to play it though

[tardy ingot]

italian babu

y

[rotund basalt]

Italian 10x better its not stupid like ruy lopez where they play a6 and you trade bishop for knight just to double their pawns

[harsh iron]

Ruy lopez

[quartz bronze]

italian easier to understand

[wicked girder]

same but shh

[jolly hinge]

e4 e5 ☹️🔫

[south trout]

Ruy Lopez
But only for those above like 1700
aka not us

[jolly hinge]

e4 e5 ☹️🔫

[molten cipher]

on my screen it prints as im first but k

[crystal flicker]

ITALIAN IS STUPID

[lone granite]

ruy lopez - strategic (boring)
italian - funny with c3

[cunning zealot]

London System

[flat spoke]

are there any ruy experts here

[molten cipher]

discord bug prob

[void dust]

MAMMA MIA

[icy umbra]

lol

[soft river]

dor is ruy expert

[south trout]

You can do evans gambit

[rotund basalt]

Also italian is great because it could lead to attacking the center with c3 d4

[little valve]

Italia mamaa

[wind summit]

The only ppl who'll choose ruy lopez either are really good or have some secret prep

[flat spoke]

I wonder if anyone that likes the ruy lopez actually knows how to play it

[vernal kiln]

RUY LOPEZZZZZ

[graceful pine]

the fried liver has 438578347538477534856 counters

[icy umbra]

dammnnn

[lone granite]

ruy 🤮

[limpid nimbus]

italian better

[faint lotus]

Ruy Lopez just fun too play

[rugged skiff]

I don't recommend both, way too predictable

[soft river]

doesnt ruy lopez also do that 💀

[limpid nimbus]

wtf

[dreamy blade]

ruy is infinitely better no contest

[south trout]

nah guys

[round prism]

Italian ez

[restive island]

Bro Italian is shit Polish opening 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱 🇵🇱

[neat sparrow]

yes

[jolly hinge]

[honest jackal]

I prefer e4 e5 d4

[south trout]

bongcloud is where its at

[icy umbra]

we do not care

[hot willow]

fried liver is good if you're beginner. however I find hard to imply for advance level.

[south trout]

ok dude

bruh

[rapid cove]

Italian is italian, and their pizza is pizza. So Italian

[flat spoke]

do you?

[quartz bronze]

I don't use the fried liver

[rotund basalt]

no because people arent stupid to play the berlin

[lone granite]

cringujesz

[covert ferry]

Italian

[jolly tree]

stop saying period js bc u think ur correct

[icy umbra]

mama mia

[cunning zealot]

i've tricked so many toddlers with the italian lmao

[soft river]

welp then idk 💀

[neat sparrow]

I play Ruy Lopez and can say successefully

[cunning zealot]

forky forky

[graceful spindle]

mrozi

[lone granite]

rel

[cunning zealot]

Italian way too overplayed

[graceful pine]

if we aren't talking about the fried liver then the italian is indeed good ig but imo ruy lopez is better

[rotund basalt]

the point of c3 d4 is because their are 3 of blacks peices having eyes on the d4 square the bishop c6 knight and e5 pawn

[bronze trellis]

i am correct, i dont "think" i am correct

[jolly hinge]

[cunning zealot]

Fried liver not even good

[soft river]

yes so....?

[quartz bronze]

Pizza opening better cuz I said so

[jolly hinge]

e4 e5 ☹️🔫

[icy umbra]

mamma mia

[graceful pine]

that's what i asid

[restive island]

jebać morzenie kiedy promuję ojczyzne Polska GUROM 🦅

[soft river]

yes
d4 >>>>>>

[lone granite]

[split tulip]

obviously the reti is superior

[jolly hinge]

e4 e5 ☹️🔫

[flat spoke]

berlin isn't good at low level because if you play the berlin you're trying to get a draw while white has an advantage without risk, and that's not what black should be trying for at lower levels

[jolly tree]

i mean ur usually correct

[restive island]

d4

[bronze trellis]

always* :)

[jolly tree]

i havent see u be wrong yet

[split tulip]

Yes, of course, we all should play the reti

[lone granite]

[cunning zealot]

Oh yeah, you said "aren't", mb mb

[jolly tree]

but u r only 600

[rotund basalt]

italian has better tactics and allows you to take control of the center, if you like playing intense italian is for you but if you like trading for no reason than ruy lopez is for you

[jolly tree]

so ur gonna be wrong eventually

[wicked girder]

italy my beloved https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cl4q4jIGc78

[jolly hinge]

💀

[rotund basalt]

you can easily break towards the center with italian and a lot of people fall for some guocio piano game

[bronze trellis]

only 600times better than you*

[lament haven]

if the poll was spanish vs italian then it would be closer. biased naming cause country name is power

[rotund basalt]

here is the solution, dont play e5

[jolly tree]

ur lower rated stfu

[soft river]

question: have you ever tried the ruy lopez before? 💀

[quartz bronze]

bs

[foggy pilot]

ruy lopez has too many variations to learn, italian is really simple and it’s better on a beginner level

[bronze trellis]

will adopt you rn

[median nacelle]

none of the abo ev

[bronze trellis]

send link

[cunning zealot]

Italian is easier

[jolly tree]

no

[rotund basalt]

yeah and its stupid theyll just play a6 and you trade bishop for knight for literally no reason

[jolly tree]

ur a waste of my time

[jolly hinge]

Imma head out this chat worse than general on a bad day

[bronze trellis]

scared?

[soft river]

more people play ba4 smh

[jolly tree]

and probably a cheater

[neat sparrow]

I agree, I play Ruy Lopez and I know about 10 variations

[lone granite]

exchange ruy isn't bad

[flat spoke]

learning ruy lopez theory is fun when you get higher rated you should try that

[rotund basalt]

if you are a 400 that is

[foggy pilot]

lol that’s dedication!

[chrome fulcrum]

my username says a lot

[lone granite]

500-999 ah yes

[soft river]

ok which one is superior?
more masters play ruy lopez therefore its better at master level

[rotund basalt]

boom now there is 2x italian as there is ruy lopez

[flat spoke]

I wouldn't recommend it though

[cunning cave]

I like the Italian because it was like the first thing I learned and I know the most Italian theory, plus I just like most Italian middlegames

[foggy pilot]

i like the evans gambit also and i can’t get that out of ruy lopez

[soft river]

also the question itself is misleading
you can play both the italian and spanish with black or white

[cunning zealot]

Most chess players aren't masters so it shouldn't matter to the rest of the chess players what the masters play

[flat spoke]

I think ruy lopez at master level has some problems because of the berlin and marshall
so actually italian has been played a lot at top level recently

[soft river]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[soft river]

hm interesting

[rotund basalt]

here is the solution, play kings gambit and have no fear

[median nacelle]

id rather play d4 then getting into spanish or italian lines 😂 altho ill play nf3 and c4 before getting to d4 😂 😂

[jolly tree]

it doesnt matter at what level

[flat spoke]

but I'm a ruy lopez enjoyer so I have to vote ruy lopez

[jolly tree]

ruy lopez is the higher level opening and superior

[median nacelle]

EXACTLY

[mint rivet]

Kings Indian Defense 🇮🇳

[jolly tree]

and thats why ur father left

[flat spoke]

bruh what

[rotund basalt]

or just stop being a 200 and playing e5 as the first move for black and play something real like the french or caro kann

[median nacelle]

the only correct answer

[soft river]

the question is why e5

[neat sparrow]

Marshall Attack, Chigorin, Averbakh, Trajkovic Counter Attack, Cozio, Bird, Steinitz, Arkhangelsk, Neo-Arkhangelsk, Breyer, Flohr, Zaitsev, Zaitsev Variations, it is about 15 variations what I play

[soft river]

👍

[median nacelle]

or even better, siclian 😂

[lone granite]

kid theory is like ruy lopez theory

bruh

[jolly tree]

average caro enjoyer

[thorny wagon]

italian amazing

[foggy pilot]

yeah i’ve only heard of like 3 of those LOL

[rotund basalt]

no i like french more

[thorny wagon]

evans gambit giucco

[jolly tree]

i hate caro enjoyers they are all stupid (except me)

[mint rivet]

I like the London

[jolly tree]

even worse

[thorny wagon]

evans gambit is w

[neat sparrow]

most stupid opening

[jolly tree]

when u play the french ur just accepting to play a game where ur worse

[cunning zealot]

I always play 4 knights

[mint rivet]

nah\

[jolly tree]

average 500

[lone granite]

play sicilian 🤷

[rotund basalt]

no because every time someone plays the sicilian on me they just play something stupid like b3 and just cant play it correctly because they only play it because hikaru played it that one time

[mint rivet]

London >>>>

[wooden flame]

The Italian opening interests me and I prefer it since at least for me it gives me a solid position, and to be able to troll my rival

[rotund basalt]

YEAH BOYY

[median nacelle]

[foggy pilot]

i hate playing against the london

i don’t think that’s a controversial take though

[mint rivet]

@wicked girder add a third option for London or I cancel my premium and demand a refund

[jolly tree]

grand prix = scary

[rotund basalt]

actually no kings indian defense

[lone granite]

i hate playing chess

[median nacelle]

vote shouldve been kings gambit or queens gambit, and why kings gambit is the answer

[soft river]

i hab question
why e5

[foggy pilot]

real as heck

[wooden flame]

I hate london

[flat spoke]

that's a pretty good amount
I learned how to play against marshall, (chigorin, breyer, zaitsev)/(I go 8. a4 and becomes anti-classical) open, berlin, arkhangelsk, averbakh, classical, bird, schliemann, cozio, cozio deferred, smyslov, steinitz, steinitz deferred, norweigan

[neat sparrow]

same, but play KID setup against London and , you'll be fine

[median nacelle]

cancel it

[foggy pilot]

i need to learn this

[graceful pine]

average scholar's mate player

[cunning zealot]

both are mid

[hot willow]

Oh... Actually I don't know why but London system is confusing me all the time.
I studied it bunch of times but I don't feel comfortable playing with it 🙁

[neat sparrow]

yes and Anti Marshall I play too sometimes

[cunning zealot]

king's gambit reigns supreme

[soft river]

scholars mate players when they dont go e5:

[median nacelle]

@wicked girder 👀

[ruby lagoon]

Depending on a level
At most levels Italian is much more practical and easy to play
Objectively, I would say, Ruy Lopez is slightly better
There're much more options for both sides
If we're talking about specific variations, then I can compare Giucco Pianissimo (with c3 d3) and Closed Ruy Lopez. In both openings the idea for white is to prepare d4. And in most cases in Ruy Lopez white does it in one move (d2-d4 instead of d2-d3+d3-d4)
But, if you're a beginner or an intermediate player, please, don't play the Ruy Lopez
You're gonna quit chess before you get to enjoy the game

[rotund basalt]

no queens gambit is better idc that kings gambit is for no fear queens gambit is just superior second best thing to do in d4 behind kings indian defense

[neat sparrow]

me too what you mentioned

[lone granite]

i beat fm in wayward

🥱

[flat spoke]

against marshall I go 8. a4 anti marshall because I don't want to allow that kingside counterplay
that's why sometimes against 7... d6 I also go 8. a4 because it can transpose into the anti-marshall

[soft river]

why not ruy sad

[graceful pine]

💀

[hot willow]

Come one ! enough with the scholars mate already 😄

[soft river]

i dont like either italian or ruy tbh

[graceful pine]

a person who knows reasoning pls pin this

[soft river]

play d4 instead 💀

[foggy pilot]

i personally find it really easy to decline the queens gambit

[median nacelle]

doesnt matter, for me id rather play english lines before queensgambit

[rotund basalt]

here is my solution, play the vIEnnA

[foggy pilot]

I LOVE THE VIENNA

[flat spoke]

ruy lopez I think was my main opening since I started playing chess 💀

[soft river]

👍

[cunning zealot]

Best opening

[neat sparrow]

correct, but I enjoy to play against Marshall, I played Marshall Spassky Variation and it went well

[median nacelle]

works for me, kings gambit and vienna r basically siblings

[hot willow]

Vienna gambit ! 😍

[soft river]

i switch from italian to ruy

:3

[tall shell]

Personally I experiment with both nowdays...

[rotund basalt]

yeah ok settled, vienna wins

[median nacelle]

vienna is what im currently playing in e4 mostly 🤔

[flat spoke]

black just gets too much counterplay for me

[median nacelle]

even tho i dont know much about it 😂 😂

[foggy pilot]

i wanna learn some lines of ruy lopez just bc i feel in general more people know how to play the italian

[soft river]

i actually have no opinion on this as i am low rated

[cunning zealot]

dor

[rotund basalt]

yeah all ik is vienna gambit

[flat spoke]

hi

[stray forum]

vienna

[neat sparrow]

check my profile on site , and you'll see my way to play Ruy Lopez

[cunning zealot]

what do u think

[foggy pilot]

i’m 800 elo is that low rated

[soft river]

thanks

[soft river]

idk
probably?

[cunning zealot]

which ruy variation is the best for white

[median nacelle]

chessly sample users be like 👀

[stray forum]

if you are under 1500 dont play ruy lopez

[foggy pilot]

why not

[soft river]

says the person under 1500 💀

[flat spoke]

I don't know how to answer this because it's usually black that chooses the variation

[graceful pine]

fr tho

[soft river]

tbh its matter of preference

[ruby lagoon]

I'm a d4 player, but if I would play e4, I would choose Ruy Lopez over Italian

[lone granite]

just don't play ruy lopez

[hot willow]

Why??! 😶

[soft river]

it doesnt matter how good an opening is as long as its decent

[sullen falcon]

Im supposed to be 1400 but im 800

[median nacelle]

what do u [play in d4?

[soft river]

and you're not playing at master level

[foggy pilot]

real

[rotund basalt]

this is making me think back to when i was 100 bullet elo and somebody played the scandinavian on me but i thought because its bullet they would fall for scholars mate so i would play Qh5 but the thing is the square is already open for them so you cant even play it

[stray forum]

people tend to play more inaccuracies and all that stuff so a more imbalanced game would be better in that elo

[ruby lagoon]

Queen's Gambit and other lines with d4 c4

[cunning zealot]

yes but like which variation would you prefer

[soft river]

ok instead of argueing over which is better i should just go play some chess 💀
bye people

[flat spoke]

like do you mean which variation would I rather black plays against me?

[cunning zealot]

yes

[rotund basalt]

no just play c4, BOOM

[foggy pilot]

imo, people can be really good at chess in lower elos and just be hardstuck in them

[neat sparrow]

Flohr-Zaitsev

[tall shell]

I used to avoid ruby Lopez after a point because most people respond with the Berlin defence. But I'm trying to find response to it... So... As said before experimenting... I'm more confident with the Italian but I feel I can easily be surprised or make a mistake.

[cunning zealot]

just learn the berlin

or the anti berlin

[flat spoke]

tbh I don't have any that I really want to see, since I'm in the process of getting to really know these different variations I kind of want to see them all

[stray forum]

you are hardstuck because of the lack of consistency in your games

[cunning zealot]

ahhh gochu gochu

[rotund basalt]

yeah learn ber lin but still italian is better

[stray forum]

it's not like a multiplayer game where teamates can decide your elo so it's your skill and consistency

[rotund basalt]

i just realized

[foggy pilot]

that makes sense

[rotund basalt]

anitta you said italian opening its italian game

and you put a french dank memer instead of an italian

[cunning zealot]

spanish game and opening are allso the same thing

ruy lopez the spanish same thing

[ruby lagoon]

Trust me, players below master level usually have no idea how to play the Berlin (unless they've studied some sort of course)
They just play Nf6, because they've been taught to develop knights before bishops

[stray forum]

italian is far more beginner friendly

[rotund basalt]

but doesnt everyone call it ruy lopez, even chess.com

[graceful pine]

that's the italian flag

[stray forum]

spanish or vanish

[cunning zealot]

yep but its also called the spanish soooo

[rotund basalt]

oh crap i thought it was french it looks blue

[median nacelle]

hmmm, im probably never getting into queensgambit, but i like english now, i can get behind catalan

[graceful pine]

nah lol it's green

[rotund basalt]

bro this aint duolingo

[cunning zealot]

I like Italian cause its easier to play

[tall shell]

Petrov's defence vs Russian defence (/joke)

[stray forum]

i agree

[flat spoke]

yeah I personally think berlin at lower levels is just not good
it's basically an opening where black gets a slightly worse position and tries to hold
white gets to keep the pressure and there's not much risk
as black I would always think you should be trying to play for a win

[cunning zealot]

i personally like to resign

[stray forum]

learning ruy lopez isnt worth it if so much has been analyzed

[ruby lagoon]

Ruy Lopez vs Spanish

[rotund basalt]

ikr

[cunning zealot]

And it's easier to counter

[stray forum]

english vs englund gambit vs london 👌

[rotund basalt]

🇮🇹

[rotund basalt]

london

[graceful pine]

am i crazy or aer those the exact same thing

[cunning zealot]

The spanish is much more advanced and difficult if you don't know it that well. Overall tho, it is much better then the italian.

[rotund basalt]

englund gambit is just attempting to make your opponent blunder

[ruby lagoon]

Yes, it is the same thing

[graceful pine]

oh

[flat spoke]

I voted ruy lopez but I would recommend the italian lol

[cunning zealot]

Anyone else here always plays 4 knights?

[stray forum]

i think the most important thing is italian and spanish shouldnt be the only openings you are playing

[flat spoke]

💀

[flat spoke]

I only play the ruy lopez

☠️

[stray forum]

what's your elo?

[cunning zealot]

Don't judge I'm a 900

[flat spoke]

2200 rapid 2300 blitz 2300 bullet
chess.com rating

[stray forum]

gahdamn how many lines do you know 💀 ?

[flat spoke]

sorry lol

[cunning zealot]

4 knight is easy for me to play

[flat spoke]

anti-marshall, The next two are alternatives > (chigorin, breyer, zaitsev)/(I go 8. a4 and becomes anti-classical) open, berlin, arkhangelsk, averbakh, classical, bird, schliemann, cozio, cozio deferred, smyslov, steinitz, steinitz deferred, norweigan

[cunning zealot]

That's why I always play it

[flat spoke]

I haven't fully mastered these yet but I'm in the process of doing so

[ruby lagoon]

Same
For most players Ruy Lopez is just unnecessary complex
It doesn't make sense to learn lines of Closed and Open Spanish and study the Berlin Endgame if you're gonna hang your queen on move 5

[cunning zealot]

I do not understand a word

[stray forum]

why do you love ruy lopez so much that you dont want to play anything else im curious

[cunning zealot]

Looks like I need to study a lot more chess

[flat spoke]

ruy lopez has been my main opening for years and I've always thought that I should learn one opening to everything, and not have various alternatives, as it allows me to get better at what I'm currently playing

[stray forum]

fair

[ruby lagoon]

You forgor Schliemann Deffered

[stray forum]

i do that with vienna

[vivid mesa]

italian is easier to play for many players

[flat spoke]

yeah I did not learn that one but I think it's objectively really bad for black
and it's also very rare

I might learn it one day

[cunning zealot]

Yep

[flat spoke]

I mainly learned the more common ones

[ruby lagoon]

I want to learn to play e4 and I'd like to play Ruy Lopez
Do you think it is a good idea? (I'm almost 2k rapid)

[cunning zealot]

Whats a good opening to learn for a 900 rapid

[wise jungle]

caro

[flat spoke]

if you are willing to learn a bunch of theory then I think it should be fine
within variations there's some slight nuances that can get complicated but overall I don't think it should be that difficult

[ruby lagoon]

I would recommend Scotch or Vienna
It's pretty easy to play

[stray forum]

vienna gambit

that thing has got me from 900 to 1050

[ruby lagoon]

Yeah, I'm fine with learning theory

[cunning zealot]

Alr thanks

[cunning zealot]

Imma look into learning them, thanks

[foggy pilot]

scotch is very easy to play

[flat spoke]

the source I used for learning the ruy lopez was a book called "fabiano caruana's ruy lopez" or something like that
I'm not sure about other ruy lopez books but this one was pretty good

[tough bluff]

ruy lopez aka spanish is the best opening(according to stockfish)

[ruby lagoon]

Thanks, I'll take a look at it

[flat spoke]

when studying openings I also like to pair it with engine analysis too, but you don't have to do that

[signal folio]

King's Gambit or Vienna where? I never played the Spanish with white and the Italian was my first opening. Easy vote for me

[ruby lagoon]

I'm waiting for London vs Queen's Gambit

[signal folio]

I would prefer Queen's Gambit vs King's Gambit

[willow summit]

Scotch Game is better

[ruby lagoon]

I don't think there's anything to discuss

[signal folio]

It's about what we as community prefer and not what is objectively best

[ruby lagoon]

I don't think it is even reasonable to compare those openings
They're like completely different

[split tulip]

im waiting for reti vs van geet poll

[ruby lagoon]

[amber hare]

KG obviously better no discussion

[cunning zealot]

The question about spanish vs italian opening depends on the level . So the Italian is much easier to learn and to understand because you dont have to learn so many responses like in the spanish . But in the spanish is studied everywhere and if you put in the work drawble from all variations if the opponent respnds with the best moves so you will endup with atleast a better positon . For beginners is the italian better because its not as hard to understand as the spanish and you have you bishop on C4 staring at the vulnarable f7 pawn and you have a target you can hold onto like in the fried liver. The spanish is better which is shown by the strong computers but you need to learn alot theory and its very drawish due to it beaing heavily studied also it is very complex withall its diffrent gameplans.

[amber hare]

Intuition will take you a lot farther in the Italian

[sick lantern]

The Ruy Lopez: Spanish Grandeur

The Ruy Lopez, also known as the Spanish Opening, takes its name from the 16th-century Spanish bishop Ruy López de Segura, who analyzed and popularized the opening.
The main idea behind the Ruy Lopez is to pressure Black's knight on c6, indirectly controlling the center, and preparing to develop the bishop to an active square on b5. Opening aims to create a solid pawn structure, prompt quick piece development, and exert pressure on Black's position, which often leads to a complex and tactical middlegame.

Italian Opening: Artful Precision

The Italian Opening, sometimes called the Italian Game, is equally rich in history. Its origins can be traced back to the 16th century in Italy.
The Italian Opening focuses on quick piece development, with the bishop on c4 aiming at the f7-square, an area often targeted for an early checkmate or tactical threats. The Italian Opening emphasizes control of the center and efficient piece play, allowing players to potentially launch aggressive attacks or transition into different pawn structures.

Comparing the Openings

Complexity vs. Flexibility:
The Ruy Lopez is known for its depth and complexity. The positions that arise from this opening can lead to deep strategic plans, and various pawn structures. On the other hand, the Italian Opening, though less intricate, offers a more flexible approach, allowing players to adjust their plans based on the opponent's responses.

Aggressive vs. Harmonious:

The Ruy Lopez often leads to sharp and aggressive middlegame positions, creating tension on the board. It demands precise calculations and deep understanding of positions, making it a favorite of many attacking players. In contrast, the Italian Opening promotes harmonious development and maintains a balance between control and strategic maneuvering.

Conclusion

In the eternal debate of Ruy Lopez vs. Italian Opening, there is no definitive answer, Otherwise I In my opinion Italian is much better. Limit 😦

[mighty breach]

I can say Italian because the more people who play it, the more people I get to use the Rousseau Gambit against so we'll just go with that. (Yes the Rousseau is my main opening in rapid atm but I'm changing it soon)

[sick lantern]

<@&745328830649991179>

[signal folio]

✅

[royal wave]

italian but mostly the gucci piano

[tired oracle]

they both suck. d4 supremacy

also, sicilian defense najdorf supremacy

[cunning zealot]

the rousseau gambit is kinda mid (I used to play it too)

[cunning zealot]

I like the Italian personally

[cunning zealot]

No

[cunning zealot]

Also no

[torn horizon]

neither are good, we should all play the London and caro-kann

[sick lantern]

Giuocco Piano

[royal wave]

close enough

[lilac ridge]

Ruy Lopez is for nerds

[merry chasm]

giuoco piano

[sick lantern]

Exactly i just double clicked c mb

[crystal flicker]

Ruy Lopez, Italian is more symmetrical and therefore more BORING

[mighty breach]

Mid is a bit of an understatement. It dies if they know d4 and the right line

[rain folio]

Is Ruy Lopez that much more forcing than Italian games? Black still has a variety of easy ways to vary the opening I feel.

[forest flint]

some specific lines are more forcing -- e.g. the riga variation -- but there's plenty of offbeat responses, I personally play 3...f5 and opponents at 1200-1400 level tend to fall apart

or at least, they aren't booked up on it, which I find tends to give me an advantage

[autumn raft]

learning the traps to the ruy lopez sucks balls

[tough bluff]

like u

[autumn raft]

cope

[rain folio]

Seems trappy for my tastes but I could see it being viable at least.

I personally like the Improved Steinitz defense (play D6 after opponent castles). Breaks mainline theory but comes very naturally to me, especially if white takes on C6 instead of me making them.

How do y’all play Italian games as white? I’m yet to find myself attracted to any variation for such in particular.

[forest flint]

it's maybe not as good as main lines, but I generally get out of the opening not down more than a pawn, even if my opponent does know what they're doing, and I personally will take that

[chrome fulcrum]

just play d4

london best

[little valve]

[rain folio]

Which is worse to go up against as black then?

[mighty cliff]

From a practical standpoint of playing for the win as white I really struggle to understand why GM's play the ruy lopez when black can play a Berlin and most likely just draw

[rain folio]

I don’t see why white has to allow black to go for the Berlin defense when they can defend the pawn with D3 or NC3. That’s what happens often at the highest levels I would presume… wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a more bizarre but equally valid variation I don’t see there

[mighty cliff]

anti berlins are still super drawish

the ruy lopez as a whole has a low winrate for white at the master level due to the high draw rate

[rain folio]

…And I was under the impression it was popular at that level

[mighty cliff]

It is popular

It's the most popular after E4 E5

But I can't understand why

[timber flower]

The simple answer is that the Ruy Lopez has one of the highest win rates for white, or at least highest expected scores (win rate + draw rate * 0.5).

For example, according the chess.com database (pictured) you'd expect to score out of a 100 games,
Ruy Lopez / Spanish … 56.5
Italian … 53.5
Scotch … 53.0

Pretty good argument for the Ruy Lopez!

[mighty cliff]

what database is this

are you sure this is a masters database and not just any player

amongst amature players who dont know reems of theory it seems like a decent opening

on the lichess masters database white wins 25%, draw 59%, black wins 16%

[timber flower]

This is the chess.com masters database.

[timber flower]

We're on the chess.com server here, so using the lichess database is a bit weird; but same result: On lichess Ruy Lopez / Italian / Scotch all win about 30% of the time, but black has the least winning chances by far in the Ruy Lopez.

[forest flax]

Italian is my fave because of Guioco Piano (my favorite opening) and Fried Liver. This is an 1100 speaking tho

[gritty river]

You see, contrary to your belief, chess is NOT rock paper scissors. There is still chess to be played even from the position of the Berlin endgame, and if one really wants to avoid the Berlin mainline they can just play the anti berlin systems with d3

[mighty cliff]

I never made the statement that isn't guaranteed to be a draw

There's chess to be played, but statistically the winning chances are far lower than other openings

[gritty river]

You made it seem like playing the Ruy Lopez was a dubious choice lol

[mighty cliff]

So if you are trying to play for a win with white, you will have far better chances not going into that

[mighty cliff]

It's probably the most sound opening there is

But practically the high amount of theory gives it low winning chances at the top level

In terms of playing not-to-lose it might be the best choice as blacks winrate is extremely low

Of course winrate isn't everything but it definitely demonstrates that the practical winning chances are low in the berlin endgame for example

This is only at the very top level obviously

[zealous cosmos]

The answer is neither because the Caro is a better response to e4 anyways

[torn cloud]

First of all, Ruy lopez is known from people all over the world and studied, which basically means that it is countered by more players then you'd expect. While the Italian is more easy to counter, it can spread into different types of openings and can lead to a lot of positional advvantages, so I think the answer is Italian Opening.

[slender briar]

Italian is hood

Good*

If you opponent play Nf6

[slender briar]

Your*

[crystal flicker]

Ruy Lopez is the best e4 opening

[neat sparrow]

I agree with you

[last rain]

Italian 2 knights defense

https://tenor.com/view/explosion-mushroom-cloud-atomic-bomb-bomb-boom-gif-4464831

In The 2 knights defense Ng5 is the intercontinental ballistic missile

https://tenor.com/view/icbm-rocket-missile-gif-7962839

[upper void]

finally people realize that the ruy lopez is the worst most boring opening ever

[flat spoke]

[upper void]

bro i built my entire repertiore to avoid ruy\

both sides are the most painstaking battle of move orders man

[flat spoke]

yeah move orders matter a lot in ruy lopez but it doesn't make it boring

[tribal dirge]

in my opinion - both openings are very great, but: italian is to 1000 elo, ruy lopez is over 1200 elo

[zealous cosmos]

Guiocco 4 knights

[jolly hinge]

Spelling goes hard

[lime knot]

Why italy

[crystal flicker]

Bro what are you talking about I love the ruy Lopez and I also love playing exciting dynamic chess

Saying the ruy lopez is boring is a sin

[upper void]

saying otherwise is incorrect lol

[copper kayak]

The Italian is also boring

[crystal flicker]

The Italian is literally more symmetrical than the ruy Lopez

[little valve]

italian simple but boring

ruy lopez is boring

ngl play anything else

[median nacelle]

exactly 😂
abandono italian,spanish,scotch

[little valve]

good for beginners but it gets so old

[forest flax]

I apologize for advertizing.

[mighty light]

Both are perfect

[chrome fulcrum]

Both suck

play london

for black and white

[outer verge]

Italian becouse "1.E4 E5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 C6 4.Nc3 Bg4 5.Nxf5 Bd1 6.Bf7+ Kd7 7.Nd5#"

[flat spoke]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 c6 4. Nc3 Bg4 5. Nxf1 Bd1 6. Bf7+ Kd7 7. Nd5# lore in a nutshell

[outer verge]

I kind of got confused i played the moves in my head it didnt go well

[cunning zealot]

ruy lopez better

[forest flax]

Nah Ruy Lopez too complicated

Basically any move works for Black in the Ruy Lopez I think even h6 is fine

Also if I liked the Ruy Lopez I wouldn't make four Italian Game videos lol

[tired field]

ruy lopez >>>

[quaint garnet]

Stockfish likes ruy lopez more

[serene adder]

I think that both are good, its just that the Italian is a little boring since its always the same moves at every game.

[median summit]

Italian is way better

[split tulip]

not true at all

[sick lantern]

This post is so old bro

[quaint garnet]

Stockfish says ruy lopez 😎🤖

[median summit]

theyre basically the same in terms of objective strength

[brisk kernel]

ruy lopez is definitely way better

If you play italian the opponent has alot of counterplay

ruy lopez is complicated and rare to come across, thus your opponent has little to no traps

[median summit]

it isnt "rare to come across" by any means

[brisk kernel]

It is rare

Out of the 200 games I played none of my opponents played Ruy Lopez

[median summit]

thtats crazy

[brisk kernel]

Another one is In lichess database Ruy Lopez was only played 17million times September 2023 to September 2024.

That's very little especially when lichess literally have 150k+ active users everyday.

With an average of 85 million games a month ( everything is according to lichess website)

[brisk kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1031921238567817297/1262806354842882099/attachment-5.gif