London Vs French: which one is the worst to face?

[shrewd goblet]

and why the london?

[neat tinsel]

london boring

[brazen trellis]

first

[autumn linden]

Cause its ewww

[honest arch]

cause london bad

[thorny warren]

Because it’s boring as shit

[thick portal]

hi

[rancid vector]

i cant stand playing the lodnon

[grand raft]

Sucks aff

[rancid vector]

london

[bronze urchin]

L london

[plucky cipher]

London because theory to 20 moves

[devout nymph]

French suck

[lime willow]

london garbage

[bronze urchin]

ll

[obsidian niche]

london brehhhhhh

[narrow narwhal]

mega boring

[lusty tide]

its not lmao

[spice peak]

late game

[covert tiger]

[hearty tendon]

london sucks

[velvet haven]

london boring af imo

[remote gate]

I like the french

[faint wharf]

Here we go agian

[autumn linden]

LLLL london

[honest arch]

l in london

[undone geyser]

I don't even know the difference between the two LMAO

[paper bobcat]

fr🤢 nch

[sick hamlet]

I love london system so ...

[remote gate]

London lame

[wide fjord]

cause we're tired to see the london

[ember quarry]

london can collapse easily but also can be very powerful

[frozen scaffold]

i am french

[grave axle]

LONDON

[grand raft]

[signal ruin]

italian

[magic locust]

Because it's boring as shit and you want to murder your opponent for it

[polar vigil]

Me block bishop (french)

[hearty tendon]

i got a book with 300 pages that is full of london bruh

[ashen bridge]

french is a pain

[thorny warren]

All london games are virtually the same

[foggy bluff]

london

[tribal aurora]

i can't master both openings

[shrewd goblet]

not the poll being 150 vs 48

[ember quarry]

the only answer

[tribal aurora]

sad

[hearty tendon]

lol

[grave axle]

[wary gyro]

i hate facing the french

[wide fjord]

👍

[ashen bridge]

[mighty fiber]

I have London

[devout nymph]

I don't know the french 💀

[restive jasper]

French is anoyying

[foggy bluff]

[agile yarrow]

qg is best after d4 why play london

[subtle prairie]

I choose 1️⃣ and 2️⃣

[hearty tendon]

hi anitta

[crude stag]

london iis better

[wide fjord]

racist

[hearty tendon]

lol

[serene wing]

french can be hard to face

[restive jasper]

FRENCH AND LONDON BOTH ARE ANOYYING TO FACE

[thorny warren]

both bad

[sullen juniper]

at my rating it literally doesn't matter what opening you start with so yeah idc

[thorny warren]

play the sicilian

[ocean cipher]

i don't know any of those but i don't like france

[devout nymph]

e4!!

[torpid lantern]

LONDON

[glossy vault]

it depends on what you consider "worse" if you mean what's more dangerous then obviously it's the french, if you mean what takes the fun out of your game, and will be boring it's the london

[velvet haven]

frence took the L here. At least London just sucks but not that really bad

[ashen bridge]

e4

[foggy bluff]

169 vs 64

[hearty tendon]

esc be like

[agile yarrow]

d4!!

[brazen trellis]

The london can lead to interesting middlegames and the French always leads me to a closed position which I dont like

[ember quarry]

both openings suck

[restive jasper]

ITS HARD TO FACE

[wary gyro]

susilian defence moment

[ashen bridge]

nf6

[lyric remnant]

both are reallly dumb

[wide fjord]

1.e4 g6 !!

[thorny warren]

Both are trash

[subtle prairie]

what

[torpid lantern]

pov london player explaining why london is good

[hearty tendon]

the anti london gang won lol

[agile yarrow]

agianst french just wing gambit

[dire trellis]

London is easily refuted d5 and c5

[mighty fiber]

Susiluon 💀

[wide fjord]

learn the modern defense

[hearty tendon]

yea

[dire trellis]

But the french has many variations

[thorny warren]

Ancient attack 🥶

[subtle prairie]

OH just nevermind

[devout nymph]

What you trippin on?

[brazen trellis]

Its honestly fine, but the Italian better

[subtle prairie]

Just nevermind xD

[lyric remnant]

Botez Live explaining to Gotham why London is better

[mighty fiber]

If it’s a joke ya but it’s spelt Sicilian

[undone geyser]

the Deez defense

[mighty fiber]

Yaaa

[hearty tendon]

its trash. i lost against a dude a few times and drew first time as he played modern bruh

[ember quarry]

there are moves that can bring them down in a instant

[devout nymph]

[sullen juniper]

🤓

[quaint zephyr]

Whoever makes these pictures, great job
These look really good

[hearty tendon]

yea

[lyric remnant]

true

[atomic sparrow]

the poll should have 'both' option

[devout nymph]

[limber halo]

i hate facing the french

[hearty tendon]

what da

[grand raft]

Easy to make tho

[wide fjord]

so it's good if you lost against it !?

[restive jasper]

1.b4, e5
2.Bb2, bxb4
3.Bxe5

[hearty tendon]

i drew against it bruh

[lyric remnant]

they should have bishop opening vs reti

[undone geyser]

I think it would be helpful to post what they look like compared...

[hearty tendon]

the rest opening he beat me

we hit 200 for anti london

[ember quarry]

yay

[brazen trellis]

I hate facing both

[sullen juniper]

yes, bold of them to assume their playerbase can diffrentiate between openings

[hearty tendon]

hi team nepo

[brazen trellis]

sup

[sullen juniper]

I hate playing chess

[brazen trellis]

then why are you here

[lost timber]

Against the French you have many options, London is mostly boring

[atomic sparrow]

true

[lusty tide]

shut,up im playing setarra

[sullen juniper]

because I love playing chess

it's a love hate relationship

[brazen trellis]

kinda the same with me

[frigid owl]

If i feel like the opening is annoying that opening would be hard to face that means, french thats why

[brazen trellis]

idk about u guys but my fave opening is the grob

so effective

[sullen juniper]

personally I prefer the bongcloud

wipes my opponents off the board

[brazen trellis]

Insane opening imo

[tulip mason]

bongcloud cuz if you lose against it it would be rather humiliating

[sullen juniper]

yes it's an underrated gem

[undone geyser]

Fun and deranged opening > Boring, yet strong opening

[sullen juniper]

rating is temporary, bongcloud is eternal

[undone geyser]

[faint wharf]

Still going💀

[tulip mason]

[spare rapids]

french is annoying it strikes in the center with d5 making it aggresive as shit

[dry plume]

i love london personally as long as you play off theory at move 10

[tacit knot]

advance variation go brrr i guess

[spare rapids]

just play c5 then knight out andf queen to b6

[ember quarry]

if a french turns into a london its.... i actually dont know

[tacit knot]

eh i guess thats true too

[spare rapids]

french is very good until you get to 2.4k +

london is easy to counter just strike back at the centre with c5 after the whole steup is done

[dry plume]

positional london is so fun to play

[autumn linden]

🤓

[torpid lantern]

london player coping

[dry plume]

i mainly play queens gambit but i sometimes play london loll

[late geode]

fr*nch & l**on 🤮 👎
bongcloud

[vagrant latch]

fianchetto is more boring than london and french

[dry plume]

would disagree

as an anti boring player i tend to go for a queenside castle and positional attack on kingside

makes chess 100% more fun

[quaint zephyr]

In my opinion London is one of the most (if not the most) annoying openings to face
You can't really avoid it, unless you play something really stupid, like Englund Gambit
It's hard to create play against the London due to it being very solid
And you can't really sit there and do nothing, because a good London player will launch a kingside attack at you at some point (I used to play the London, so I kinda know what I'm talking about)
I don't play against the French that often (sometimes after 1.d4 e6 I play e4 and go for it), so personally I don't find it annoying at all
But you always have a lot of ways of avoiding the French (just don't play 1.e4 and you don't have to ever face it)
But the only two ways to avoid the London - 1.d4 e5 which is refuted and 1.d4 c5 which is playable, but not very impressive either
So the London is a clear winner here

[dry plume]

benoni defense is great

[torpid lantern]

i wanna play like that, what openings do you play where you castle queenside?

[vagrant latch]

do it in catalon or english

[dry plume]

its not openings it's just intuition

[tacit knot]

hyper modern setup not bad tho

[quaint zephyr]

d4 c5 is not quite the Benoni
It might transpose, but white doesn't have to play c4

[undone niche]

london mega gae

[torpid lantern]

the center game for example

[vagrant latch]

london and french also not bad

[dry plume]

lemme set up a lichess and show you

[tacit knot]

i mean king fianchetto is more fun than london or french

for low elo like me

[dry plume]

well if someone fianchettos just take full center

[tacit knot]

[vagrant latch]

both are boring

propably except KID

[quaint zephyr]

Like this?

[dry plume]

what

[shadow bramble]

French cause London has easy counter play

[grave axle]

hows that even possible?

[grave axle]

london is confusing

[vagrant latch]

he propably mean e5, d5, c5 etc.

[quaint zephyr]

You just summon pawns from 4th dimension

[grave axle]

fr

[quaint zephyr]

I know, I'm kidding

[tall brook]

As someone who is not very high rated, I odn't think I'd like playing against the french.

[glossy gulch]

Um WE TALKIN BOUT THE COUNTRIES?

Both of them suck in chess and ....YA NOTHING

[zinc wharf]

In my opinion the London isn’t a hard opening to face but it’s really annoying to play to win against it.

[steep drum]

London isn't that bad, French is a disaster

2000 here

Yeah ngl idk who I'd want to face in a 1600s war though

Here's my win percentages against both. So yeah, London is easier lol

[frank night]

No

[celest kraken]

no ?

[frank night]

No

[celest kraken]

what "no" ?

[frank night]

Just "no"

[celest kraken]

"no" for what ?

[frank night]

What's the poll about 😂

[celest kraken]

but the answer can't be "no" !

[frank night]

Yet it is

[celest kraken]

If I say you : Roblox or Minecraft ?
The answer can't be "no" !!

[frank night]

If roblox or mc, probably mc
If London or French, then no

[celest kraken]

I give up

[frank night]

https://tenor.com/view/tonystark-gif-20634708

[balmy glacier]

I don't dislike London and I am a Caro player. Easy vote for me

[plucky zealot]

Both are easy to play against but probably french cus London is so bad and as black its ok to get a draw.

[full silo]

London so bad

[hardy crown]

I don't mind losing against the london... I definitely mind getting thrashed by some kid mouseslipping e6 instead of e5

[quaint zephyr]

But if an opening is hard to face doesn't mean that it's bad
It's likely the opposite

[balmy glacier]

French is not hard to face. I just don't like it in general

[grave vigil]

london🗿

[clever elbow]

Depends on opponent and player skill

[acoustic drum]

Recently in a 25+10 OTB tournamenet I was so afraid of playing against a prepared French player that I fell back onto the exchange variation, and tried squeezing a very intense queen and pawn endgame, which ended in a draw.

But I do think the London is worse to face because it is solid and good. Pain.

[wise horizon]

The London system is a far more annoying opening to play against, considering you only have a handful of responses against it, and they all usually just transpose to a common "anti-London" position. White enjoys the pawn pyramid-like stricture from f2-d4 and d4-b2. While black undermines that centre with the c5 pawn-break, played either in gambit style without e6, or play with a more solid style after e6. Another extremely common thing about the London is how blacks' queen is on b6. Whites' queen goes to b3 and both sides want the other side to take, so that the a file can be used by the rook on a1 or a8. The London is far too solid and very much the definition of a system - the ideas are carried over too heavily into similar lines.

If you wish to avoid mainline London theory or confuse your opponent, then you either have to resort to strange move orders, or play dubious lines! Not at all preferable as black. Black will struggle to create any counter-play as white stays solid for the entire game.

The french, however 1. e4, e6 - allows white to respond in many ways - d4, Nf3, Nc3, and even moves such as b3 and f4, there's even c4, g3 against the French. These are only the second moves that white can choose, not all might be as sharp or as effective when compared to the more popular ones, but there are many reputable things that white can choose to play.

On the third move, there are even more responses by white against the French. I prefer the Schlechter variation myself - a strange variation - 1. e4, e6 2. d4, d5 3. Bd3!

The idea here is for me to recapture 3... dxe4 4. Bxe4 and drop the bishop back to f3 after 4... Nf6 - Putting pressure on the b7 pawn. My knight will develop to Ne7 and I will castle short, from there the game is just chess. Black can respond with c5 and after c3 or another move, white is totally fine and both sides can enjoy the feeling of playing chess without going into deep theoretical lines when compared to something like the advanced French. In which there are strange and sometimes non-intuitive moves, sometimes even giving up the d4 pawn! Sounds crazy right? That's why I just prefer to avoid theory all together by playing this off-beat but reasonable response to the French Defense.

The French allows for both sides to enjoy different ideas, closed structures, open games, kingside attacks, relentless pawn pushes on the queenside, tactics such as the Greek gift in the Schlechter, and much much more! Compared to the London System, it's a far richer opening and allows for imbalances - crazy ideas spring out of nowhere.

P.S Caro Kann > French Defense

[lyric remnant]

wow

[wise horizon]

they mentioned the london

i HAD to speak out

[balmy glacier]

Dude wrote a whole book

[plucky zealot]

copy pasta

[wise horizon]

he's onto something

[ashen bridge]

damn

[thorny warren]

i think french makes developpment pretty hard

[alpine hedge]

ngl the french is pretty annoying to face

[grand matrix]

i myself am not an 1.e4 player, but I was a london player some while ago and thus know the ins and outs and how to deal with positions. having this knowledge allows me to be theoretically accurate against the london and they just get out of the usual development rlly fast so id say french is worse

[ripe acorn]

Absolutely the london. If you are facing the french you have a plethora of options to choose from and very flexible game plans. Where as the london I feel like you are more of less forced to play into it as there are not that many options.
Also the QDG is my favorite opening to play as an against, so it's always a bit sad to think i'm gonna play against it only to see a london 😅

[zinc mica]

I just hate the london, why playing the noble 1.d4 to play the London, when there's king's indian, queen's indian, QGA, QGD slav, QGD 2.e6...
However the French is far more interesting, with lot of sharp variations like the poisoned pawn of the Winaver (Qg4) but also some more closed variations like the advance. However, when you play the French, you have the choice (Nc3, e5, exd5), whereas against the London you just can't prevent Bf4 lol

(I don't say that cuz I'm french)

[opaque sluice]

I actually am unsure

it would probably be london cause you would have to play certain setups as black and know how to play actively with ideas like c5, qb6, b6 and then play for some type of advantage long term. the downside however to this is that once you have a ton of experience with the active setups then it becomes easy to counteract against the london and have good chances of winning. this makes me say the french is more annoying cause its never going to be not complicated long term

in that case i wanna say its even but french more cause it usually leads to more complicated chess and theoretical understanding rather than just simple based positions which focus on endgames

so french wins but on a slight aspect

i have rarely played versus it cause i dont play much e4 but its definitely a weapon ive encountered and try to avoid nowadays

[thorny warren]

French is better

[buoyant onyx]

Personally I hate facing the french because I don't know any openings or the pawn breaks within them, london is just.. the london - i can manage playing against 1.d4 much more than 1...e6

[flint wadi]

french is super fun to play against, adavance variation is basically a chokehold. the london does have some interesting positional possibilities (especially with Qb6 first, before Nc6 to avoid theory, or e6 instead of d5). but the london is much more of a brick wall than the french. the french will almost always be a decisive game (unless its the exchange) which is rarer in the london.

[placid peak]

London makes me want to tear my opponents flesh apart and eat it with a wooden fork

a used wooden fork to be exact

[plain crown]

London is more positional and closed, in the French, especially the Tarrasch, I find there to be a lot of great attacking chances

Thus London

[dusky inlet]

i will kill the next person that plays a french on my

[ebon pivot]

I have no clue, which is worse for me but I'm guessing the London primarily because it is less common and more stable than the french (with my experience) and the french is very easy to stay equalized if it is a classical or 15 + 10 game, the french is just annoying because it's played like every other game

[tribal remnant]

the french is too boring to play against, at least the london is fun

[primal mountain]

It's better to compare two white s opening system for example : which one is the worst to face london or KIA

[torpid lantern]

something no one has said ever

[tribal remnant]

i just said it

[radiant scroll]

LONDON

[kindred totem]

london needs to follow a system which is very boring and can get quite old.

[zinc mica]

just the fact that it is a system is annoying, however, we have to admit it's playable at low AND high level, which makes it so popular...

[shrewd goblet]

we have a goated media department

[quaint zephyr]

[shell scarab]

london is just annoying

[fleet nebula]

Personally I like the London less, but both are anoyying to play against. While the London has basically no variations, the French still have some which can turn the game into something new.

But there is something, which makes the London compared to the French not so bad.
The thing is that in the London you still can transpose into other openings beforehand and if the enemy doesn't respond properly they are in trouble. For example you can play Nf6 , which makes the London setup not as desired. Or you can play the Dutch (d4, f5). This is basically the same as playing the Scandinavian, since you force the enemy into your area.This is less likely to happen in the French, since you can do barely anything to prevent playing the French, but probably also still possible.

Also another reason is that I hate it when the Scandinavian transpose into the French when I'm black. It's just annoying >:(

[gilded basin]

London. I just feel like French positions (excluding exchange French) are more fun to play

[placid peak]

advance variation holds French users in a chokehold

thing abt London is it doesn't have many counters and I experience it alot at the 1200 levels bc players don't want to grow up

[lapis ruin]

Maybe it's because I have studied my prep against the London System so much, that I find it pretty simple to play against vs playing against the French, which I haven't done much studies against. While the French isn't considered to be great at the highest levels, 1800 and under, it's still pretty solid if you know your theory.

[median kiln]

non of them are bad to me

tbh

[hollow belfry]

My mother when she beats me

[ashen bridge]

oh god

[glossy vault]

the french is still completely fine at 2000 and above

[frank night]

this msg really needs context 😂

[spring adder]

london is so fun 🙂

[sturdy marten]

are u being held at gunpoint

[spring adder]

fr

it’s my favorite opening

it’s makes for such a fun and exciting game

[craggy plover]

neither of them are boring

personally i dislike playing the queens gambit

but thatss probably just me

[rigid hedge]

london is garbage guys sorry

i studied cuz in some variotion in my repertoire happens the london system

[median kiln]

Ok ngl, I don't like if people want to play french defense advance, cause I can put it into the exchange variation(only thing i know about french)

[thorny warren]

if u face the london u know your opponent is ontologically evil

[zinc mica]

yeah, same for englund, tenninson, wayward and other trap openings

[coarse lintel]

london

[tall nebula]

how do you play the london?

[zinc mica]

d4 Bf4, whatever opponent does :/

[dry glacier]

I guess both openings are quite boring, but on the French without both playing exd5 is more imbalanced...

[light nymph]

london 💀

[tidal shadow]

I hate London I lost 25 times for this opening I can’t beat someone teach me 😭😭

[zinc mica]

hmmm, first, don't play symmetricaly: if you play Bf5, there will be c4, then Qb3
then, don't try quick attacks (like Nb4) until you didn't finished to develop you pieces and castled
Finally, put pressure on your opponent, playing c5 and THEN playing Nc6: if you have the reflex to play early Nc6 like in most e4-e5 openings, ur c-pawn will get blocked, and you will loose counterplay, which consists at pushing c5 (not c4!) or e5

[polar jungle]

BOTH

[median kiln]

me as a london opening player

[brazen moth]

I play both the openings... i love them both

[tulip cave]

London

[opal jungle]

I have no idea what I am doing when I face the London. I know a little theory in the French defense.

[magic abyss]

The French exchange variation is just anti-French

London is playable for both, but the French can be ripped apart into a Queen’s Gambit which is a very aggressive opening, the French player will just be lost in 15 moves.

[vale abyss]

I am always happy to see the French after e4

[wise horizon]

are you talking about the monte carlo?

[magic abyss]

Yes I am it’s the Monte Carlo gambit

[wise horizon]

gambit??

[dry glacier]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bf5 4. e3 e6 5. c4 Bxb1!?
   Does anyone know this?

[dry glacier]

In the London. It forces White to keep the king in the center without castling

[forest nest]

it says worst to face

id say french because i don't know theory

london i could even copy and still be fine lol

[zinc mica]

wait.... 3. ... Bf5 is inaccurate due to Qb3 coming soon after c4 (in omri_st line)

the engine won't agree with this, even at 16 depth

[forest nest]

oh ok

[lofty fractal]

I think french is harder to face coz it is more tactical and aggresive, while london is defensive. While with london it is harder to break through, French leads to tactical, offensive games for the opponent and for you it leads to defensive gameplay.

[vale abyss]

white isnt passive at all in the french

black attacks on the queenside and white attacks on the kingside

[magic abyss]

That’s in the Sicilian

[vale abyss]

Yes this commonly happens in the open Sicilian as well

Surprisingly 2 different openings can have similar dynamics

[magic abyss]

The French is more of a positional opening

[magic abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/minuteman-icbm-troll-we-do-a-little-trolling-rocket-emporium-gif-21936364

[magic abyss]

French = POSITIONAL

[magic abyss]

If both ply exd5 it’s a queen’s gambit with c4