French vs Caro-Kann

[lyric pecan]

which one is the best and why, kiddos?

[kindred lagoon]

levi mostly

[mental hamlet]

*levy

[onyx prairie]

same

[iron abyss]

caro is better because it sounds better 😎

[sonic ridge]

and obviously the answer is sicilian defense

[jade gull]

What is French defense?

[tired walrus]

I know how to play the french

[waxen imp]

caro, u wouldn't want to play with a dead bhisop,

[remote aspen]

French defe

[wanton horizon]

Caro-Kann cause the french always forfeit and I don't want to forfeit I want to win

[silk mist]

Fax

[spring spindle]

Sicilian

[uncut silo]

levy obviusly

[full hill]

french def is mid.
gimme my membership

[valid gale]

Laro kann better

[vestal barn]

Silican better ;-;

[kindred lagoon]

h5 easy

[spring spindle]

😎

[silk nacelle]

The French is a top choice of engines, therefore it's the better opening (not to mention I've played it for 20+ years OTB) - case closed 😎

[spring spindle]

Alex Banzea > Levy

[violet mason]

caro because levy ofc

[agile wind]

Ong

[woven zinc]

e4 goated

[celest fossil]

caro kann because gothamchess plays it 👍

[uncut silo]

yep that too

[spring spindle]

c6 all the way

[valid gale]

Indian better

[woven zinc]

e4 goated

[waxen imp]

cramped positions in the advance french are hard to play for beginners

[woven zinc]

e4 goated

[lyric pecan]

ok but hear me out: boring

[kindred lagoon]

nah c9 all the way

[queen phoenix]

caro-kann because i don't know any theory

[lyric pecan]

kekw

[spring spindle]

I BELIVE IN MORPHY DEFENCE OK?

[woven zinc]

e4 goated

[wanton horizon]

Caro-Kann>French cause the french always forfeit and I don't want to forfeit I want to win

[waxen imp]

@lyric pecan

[silk nacelle]

the only boring French is the Exchange

[celest fossil]

bongcloud opening tops all >>>>>>>>>>

[full hill]

[uncut silo]

based like actually

[buoyant warren]

REPEATING A JOKE MAKES IT FUNNIER

[woven zinc]

plus anyways french people are weird

the entire country is weird

[thin mist]

the winner will be said today

[woven zinc]

caro kann seems better

[somber meadow]

Depends on what you like: French Defense if you want your pawns to support eachother through the slog; Caro Kann if you just wanna toss all pretense to the wind and hate good pawn structures!!!!!

[buoyant warren]

mans pinged a mod to be mildly racist 💀 💀

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan

?

[pale tide]

Caro Kaan becuase somebody once came down to me in a dream, his name was Bobby and he said just two words, "Caro Kaan"

[spring spindle]

French Defense is better because it contests the center and it does so in a unique and beginner friendly way. It can also result in various cool positions. Also, Caro-Kann is a flank opening so automatically bad lmao

[kindred lagoon]

you shoulda said caro or sicilian

[lyric pecan]

probably not @thin mist but this week for sure

[silk nacelle]

The French was played in this year's WC, the Caro wasn't

[royal raft]

Caro. Compete for the middle of the board using pawn structures that are seen in many other positions.

[wanton horizon]

Caro-Kann cause the french eat frogs and I don't like frogs

[celest fossil]

LOL

[buoyant warren]

mans speaking like he solved chess

[kindred lagoon]

200 - 40 btw

[fluid berry]

I usually play french Revolution defense,isn't the most good,but sometimes it goes to a draw.

[undone ingot]

caro kann if low rated :trollge:

[kindred lagoon]

I usually play the napoleon opening, thoughts?

[lyric pecan]

lmfao

[echo dawn]

I personally play the french defense, because although our light squared bishop is cramped up, we are effectively telling white "yeah, yeah, all of my pieces are slow to get activated... but how are you going to make further progress? 🧐" I love it for the tactical and aggressive positions I can get, whereas the caro kann is more solid, and although there is more development, it is much less aggressive and does not pressure white in the way the french does. I especially love the winawer variation, where some positions look really bad for black, but there are so many crazy fun moves you can play to save them, it's so much fun!

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/defesa-siciliana-gif-24929108

[lyric pecan]

🧐 hmmm indeedge

[fluid berry]

there's a problem with it,sometimes the boats sink

[sacred lantern]

I believe, because you don't block your bishop in, the caro is better. Furthermore, you can get quite open positions from it, with a lot of attacking chances. But I would say that the bishop is the deciding factor, in the french it is a struggle to move your other pieces as well because of it.

[celest fossil]

caro kann just sounds cooler than "french defense"

[subtle osprey]

I prefet caro

just because its more exciting

[spring spindle]

[woven zinc]

Caro Kann because I Asher ruler of the earth say so, French seems weird cus of the exchanging stuff but caro kann gives the player a better advantage compared to french, Now since I rule earth this statement doesn't need to be justified as my power is undoubtedly proved me right and I am never wrong. (Summary:- Caro Kann better than french)

[waxen imp]

if u decide to play the french, u needed to be prepared against alot of stuff such as the advanced,exchanged,tarrasch

[subtle osprey]

better variations

[lyric pecan]

ok today there are less chat gpt answers very proud of you guys. if it doesnt look human, yall aint winning, so make it creative

[echo dawn]

could you explain why? Have you played the french before?

[kindred lagoon]

that isnt too rare in battleships

[lyric pecan]

like, this is very human and creative good job

[balmy relic]

The caro-kann, because if they capture your pawn on d5, the c6 pawn will capture back and you got a solid center pawn. But with french defense, you are comitting 2 pawns in the center, BUT these 1 that defends the pawn infront of it and that pawn controls most of the center with the help of the other pawn. (Take note that i just simplified it and not being so complicated)

[peak storm]

Levy Rozman, that's why.

[fluid berry]

I mean Caro Kann is the one I use rn,but problem is that 0% of the time I play with black pretty bad luck I got man,I hate my life

[echo dawn]

why not put it in an AI checker? Copyleaks is pretty good

[subtle osprey]

i've seen a few games with caro kann, and the piece/positional play is very dynamic

[echo dawn]

I guess you don't really hve time

[hexed hatch]

i personally like caro kann more because i have a cat

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan tx, bc in 4 days I will have a national tournament so it would be pretty useful...

[buoyant warren]

i like when people play the caro kann more because i play the tal variation and because i'm 1100 i win on the spot

[lyric pecan]

I do it but also I want to encourage creative stuff

[waxen imp]

not a valid reason bruh

[lyric pecan]

good luck on the tourney!!

[sacred lantern]

btw levy played the french as well

[spring spindle]

Caro cann advantages: its not the french

[kindred lagoon]

he isnt known for that tho

[spring spindle]

french advantages:

[worthy bone]

I like caro kann as it is better than the french

[hollow urchin]

I have only tried the French Defense, I have not tried the Caro-Kann. I play the Pirc Defense. The Caro-Kann should be better because the white bishop gets out. It doesn't really matter if you have a little late development.

[woven zinc]

obv the greatest of all time I claim the throne for creativity ( I am severely Ill and need immediate medical attention and I'm extremely egoistic)

[fluid berry]

Tough I mostly times do Ruhi Lopez with whites because is the opening I use mostly

[kindred lagoon]

french advantages: not the london

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan tx

[echo dawn]

I'd say its much more solid than the french, would you disagree? In the caro both players develop pretty normally, and usually are dead even, while the french black has slower development, but lots of aggression on the queenside as compensation

[spring spindle]

true...

[lyric pecan]

@little delta dont message the announcement channel

talk in thread mf!!!!!!

[subtle osprey]

im new, so i dont understand a lot of it

[lyric pecan]

mf = motherfather

[little delta]

OK SORRY BOSS

[lyric pecan]

[little delta]

i play the sisicilian tho

[drowsy aurora]

the weeknd is cool ig

[echo dawn]

that's all right! If you like aggressive games I'd recommend yiu try it out :D

[kindred lagoon]

what does mfer mean 🤔

[waxen imp]

avg french player be like: u guys have a light squared bhishop?

[spring spindle]

anitta can i have a special role that lets me react to messages in chess referendum

[sonic ridge]

SICILIAN SUPREMACY

[lyric pecan]

[fluid berry]

Man once I used London system,that time I didn't have friends,started doing Caro Kann and all my friends came back and my friend list on chess com exploded

[celest fossil]

i only play modern defense for black and my knowledge disappears after 6 moves

[lyric pecan]

why would annyone here play the sicilian we're all under k2

2k*

elo

[little delta]

CUZ ITS GOOD

[celest fossil]

sizzling defence 😈

[kindred lagoon]

scotch tho

[little delta]

caro also ok

[lyric pecan]

scotch >

[fluid berry]

I'm 378 at rapid

[subtle osprey]

but the theory-

[little delta]

french actually also good

[waxen imp]

all these 400s see the gms play scillian and try to copy them

[little delta]

[woven zinc]

when does this competition end?

[kindred lagoon]

scotch goated ong

[buoyant warren]

girl, players at your level see an alapin and just explode

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/who-cares-who-care-who-care-cat-who-cares-gif-18696918

[lyric pecan]

there's an event. whenever it ends @woven zinc

[little delta]

proof?

[echo dawn]

because they think "well once I'm a super duper gm #1 in the world I'll have to drop the french for it, so might aswell learn it now!"

[lyric pecan]

https://discord.gg/chesscom?event=1102730192285347900

[lyric pecan]

[buoyant warren]

idk, i just play it and it does well lol

[celest fossil]

https://play.chess.com/XxDJo
come play me bozos

[worthy bone]

The French Defense and the Caro-Kann are both popular chess openings that can be effective choices for black against 1.e4.

The French Defense is characterized by the moves 1.e4 e6, with the idea of controlling the d5-square and preparing to develop the light-squared bishop to f5 or g4. One of the main advantages of the French Defense is that it can lead to a solid pawn structure for black, with pawns on d5 and e6 providing good control of the center.

The Caro-Kann starts with the moves 1.e4 c6, with the idea of controlling the d5-square and preparing to develop the knight to d7 or f6. One of the main advantages of the Caro-Kann is that it can lead to a solid pawn structure for black, with pawns on c6 and d5 providing good control of the center.

Both openings have been played at the highest levels of chess and have been the subject of extensive analysis and theory. Ultimately, the choice between the French Defense and the Caro-Kann depends on personal preference and playing style. Some players may prefer the more aggressive options available in the French Defense, while others may prefer the more solid and positional approach of the Caro-Kann.

[echo dawn]

nice gpt lol

[celest fossil]

chess theory 💤

[little delta]

ill never recover from no sicilian defence option

[woven zinc]

let me write something more creative

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/true-correct-dwight-schrute-rainn-wilson-right-gif-23822659

[buoyant warren]

obvious chatgpt

[little delta]

Idk why anitta didny just go with 3 options

SMH

[kindred lagoon]

nah he typed that out himself why yall hatin 🤦‍♂️

[little delta]

[sonic ridge]

outright first chatgpt response 😂
atleast try switching it out a few times and edit it a bit 😂

[kindred lagoon]

The name "Pizzaman" suggests that the person behind the name may have a connection to or interest in pizza. The numbers "313" may have a personal significance to the individual, such as being a birthday or a special date.

Whether the name is appropriate or not depends on the context in which it will be used. If it is for a personal social media profile or gaming handle, the name may be perfectly fine. However, if the name will be used for a professional purpose or in a context where a more formal name is expected, it may not be appropriate.

Ultimately, the decision to use the name "Pizzaman313" is up to the individual, taking into consideration their personal preferences and the context in which the name will be used.

[echo dawn]

how long does the thread take before its closed and the winner is chosen?

[sacred lantern]

and what about 2. ...Nf6 or ...f5

[little delta]

AI be like

[fluid berry]

shut,now let's be real,wedding opening is the best.

[spice adder]

I prefer the Caro because it doesn't block in your light squared bishop

[shell turtle]

yes i love englund gambi

[kindred lagoon]

wedding opening sacrifices king tho idk bout all that

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/malinda-yourenotwrong-notwrong-wrong-right-gif-19187634

[sacred lantern]

the caro and french are similar, that's why

[urban ridge]

French defence is defo better. I've had many amazing French meals but I've never heard of any Caro-Kannous cuisine, so...

[fluid berry]

yeah ,because of the forced move of divorce ,sacrificing both of Queen and king

[lyric pecan]

cause we're gonna cross post this on other social media maybe perhaps possibly probably so they're always binary cause of like

instagram polling

[little delta]

i mean, excluding e5, the top 3 options for black are

1. SICILIAN DEFENCE
2. french
3. Scandinavian
4. CARO

[brazen zenith]

caro kann simply cuz of its cooler name

[kindred lagoon]

just do 4 then

[lyric pecan]

dinavian

[kindred lagoon]

That being said, there are several popular and strong openings for black that are worth considering:

Sicilian Defense - This is the most popular and widely used defense by black. It involves playing 1...c5 to challenge white's control of the center and counter-attack from the flank.

French Defense - This opening involves playing 1...e6 and challenging white's center control. It aims to create a pawn chain and force white to make pawn moves that may limit their piece mobility.

Caro-Kann Defense - This defense involves playing 1...c6 and aiming to control the center from the sides. The idea is to create a solid pawn structure and prepare for a counter-attack.

Modern Defense - This is a flexible opening that involves playing 1...g6 and fianchettoing the bishop. It aims to control the center indirectly and allows for quick development of the pieces.

Pirc Defense - This is a hypermodern opening that involves playing 1...d6 and aiming to control the center with pieces rather than pawns. It aims to create a solid and flexible pawn structure and prepare for a counter-attack.

Ultimately, the best opening for black will depend on personal preference, playing style, and the situation on the board. It's important to study and understand the basic principles behind each opening to make an informed decision.

[fickle pasture]

caro kann is just better but somehow more people know caro kann more than french so u can use french more easily but i still prefer caro kann becouse its easier to do for me

[lyric pecan]

ok that's AI

sorry

but that's AI

[little delta]

SICILIAN DEFENCE literallt most played outside e5

[lyric pecan]

[kindred lagoon]

nah i typed that ong

im a fast typer

[lyric pecan]

[sonic ridge]

why r there no reaction perms in the thread 🤔

[sacred lantern]

yes, but the caro and the french are very similar

[hearty pilot]

French defense because the French are cool. 🇫🇷

[little delta]

[sacred lantern]

french is an other topic

[echo dawn]

caro kann is definitely easier to play, but the french is waaaay more exciting for me, I get the most fun most aggressive games its amazing :D Nobody ever gives the french a shot because they're always told its just a bad caro because of the bishop, but I think everyone should give it a go, its really unique!

[brazen zenith]

[fluid berry]

in an alternative reality
Queen becomes an pawn

[lyric pecan]

idk how to separate reaction perms in threads and in the channel and yall cant have it in the channel cause we're gnona use it for votes

[lyric pecan]

[waxen imp]

advantages of playing French:

disadvantages of playing French:
(couldn't typeout since it breaches the discord word limit)

[lyric pecan]

[worthy bone]

The Sicilian Defense is another popular opening for Black in chess, and it is often considered one of the most aggressive and tactical options. The Sicilian Defense begins with the moves 1.e4 c5, with Black aiming to control the central squares and attack White's pawn structure on the queenside.

The Sicilian Defense often leads to sharp and complex positions, with both sides vying for control of the center and seeking to launch attacks on the opposing king. Black's play in the Sicilian Defense is often characterized by counterattacking on the wings and sacrificing material for a more active position.

The Sicilian Defense is a favorite among many top-level players, including Garry Kasparov, Bobby Fischer, and Magnus Carlsen. It can be a challenging opening to play for both sides, but it offers plenty of opportunities for creative and aggressive play.

Overall, the Sicilian Defense should be included in a poll of popular chess openings because of its strategic and tactical complexity, as well as its popularity among strong players. Choosing between the Sicilian Defense, the French Defense, and the Caro-Kann can depend on a player's style and preferences, but all three openings offer unique challenges and opportunities for Black.

[echo dawn]

:c

[fluid berry]

the disaster

[kindred lagoon]

As a human beingl, I am not sure what you mean by "reaction perms" in the thread. However, if you are referring to the ability to use reaction emojis (such as the "thumbs up" or "heart" emoji) on a specific platform or application, it could be due to various reasons.

Some platforms or applications may not have the feature enabled, or the feature may be disabled for specific threads or channels. Additionally, certain platforms or applications may require the user to have certain permissions or roles in order to use reaction emojis.

It's also possible that the feature is available but not being used, either because users are not aware of the feature or because they prefer to express their reactions through written comments instead.

If you can provide more specific information about the platform or application you are referring to, I may be able to provide more detailed information about why reaction emojis may not be available or how to use them.

[subtle osprey]

any 2000's here?

[warped fiber]

caro-kann uses only one piece from the center, and you can use that pawn later to own the center. thats why is better.

also c and 6 sound kinda similar

[waxen imp]

ai detected

[little delta]

caro kann 5th most played optionsmhsmhmsmhmshm

[kindred lagoon]

nahhh

[little delta]

malding

[sacred lantern]

on lichess, sure

[echo dawn]

seeeee database knows french >

[little delta]

not just on lichess

https://www.openingtree.com/ go check it yourself

[waxen imp]

come on guys, lets not waste time

this isn't even a fair discussion

we all know french is trash

[echo dawn]

did anyone contest my message?

[raw nebula]

The French defense and the Caro-Kann defense are both very well known chess opening, at all levels (maybe not so much at 800 thought). My personal preference is the Caro (hence this is why I am learning it right now :D) The Caro has multiple tricks and traps and helps you learn further opening more, the French is also highly theoretical which makes it extremely complicated to learn (basically for every move you need to learn a sequence), which on the other side the Caro is not that much. Another con of the french defense is that Computers already disregard the French as it gives no advantage in the opening (source : Levy Rozmann). Both opennings are good, the French being more popular. In conclusion both opening are Great wether you know one or the other is doesnt matter, personally I prefer the Caro (It;s different, more unknown and calmer, hence why is it also name: THE GOOD FRENCH) *This could be slightly biased due to being a Gotham Chess fan. Last thing that gives another slight edge to the French thought is that the World Champion Ding Liren (2023) has played it in 1 of his game and drew with it. 😄 Hopefully you have enjoyed this letter/ preference 😄 (my english teacher would be proud) ;-;

[waxen imp]

move on to next debate topic

[fluid berry]

just hacked chess com,ban me

[sonic ridge]

why switch from the embed poll thing??

[raw nebula]

The French defense and the Caro-Kann defense are both very well known chess opening, at all levels (maybe not so much at 800 thought). My personal preference is the Caro (hence this is why I am learning it right now :D) The Caro has multiple tricks and traps and helps you learn further opening more, the French is also highly theoretical which makes it extremely complicated to learn (basically for every move you need to learn a sequence), which on the other side the Caro is not that much. Another con of the french defense is that Computers already disregard the French as it gives no advantage in the opening (source : Levy Rozmann). Both opennings are good, the French being more popular. In conclusion both opening are Great wether you know one or the other is doesnt matter, personally I prefer the Caro (It;s different, more unknown and calmer, hence why is it also name: THE GOOD FRENCH) *This could be slightly biased due to being a Gotham Chess fan. Last thing that gives another slight edge to the French thought is that the World Champion Ding Liren (2023) has played it in 1 of his game and drew with it. 😄 Hopefully you have enjoyed this letter/ preference 😄 (my english teacher would be proud) ;-;

oops

[subtle osprey]

i have a question

[lyric pecan]

cause the embed poll thing was broken a bunch of people couldnt vote sometimes

[pearl pier]

e5

[lyric pecan]

based

[subtle osprey]

does 1600 online translate to 1600 otb?

[raw nebula]

was the explanation accepted to the giveaway?

[raw nebula]

nope

[woven zinc]

Here's why Caro-Kann is better than French Defense

Caro-Kann
French Defense

First of all as I asher ruler of all dimensions declare that caro kann is better and my opinion is undoutbly correct.

Okay you want chess theory here you go
Caro Kann is like an aggressive opening
French is a defense? A DEFENSE you seriously are going to defend, MIGHT AS WELL RESIGN bro like if someone punches you are you going to defend or you going to knock the person out??. Obv be aggressive, Hence Proved in chess theory Caro Kann is better than french

Okay you are a math nerd and want a mathematical explanation so
Caro-Kann Is 2(2x34-201) to the power of 2 of 4 whole square
and french is 6.9(4.20) which is therefore lesser
Therefore hence proved french is trash Caro Kann better

You want a logical explanation? oh okay np
Heres why Caro-Kann is better than french-
||BECAUSE I SAID SO||
@lyric pecan

-Asher (evolved version)

[lyric pecan]

absolutely not kekw

[sacred lantern]

no

[sonic ridge]

if u r gonna use ding as a reason, then youd wanna play nimzo, and thatd not be fun 😂

[lyric pecan]

b a s e d !!!!!!

[subtle osprey]

then 1600 otb translates to what rating online?

[subtle osprey]

2000ish?

[echo dawn]

I'd have to disagree with two of your points. #1 the french really isnt that theoretical (french course on chessable is half the lines of the caro), its a very idea and theme based opening, and pretty much the only theoretical part is the winawer which you definitely don't have to play! And #2 is your point about not getting an advantage out of the opening, I'd say it provides much more of a fighting chance than the caro, which is just solid and often leads to a draw. Another point is no opening with back is a sure way to get an advantage.

[sonic ridge]

hmmmmmm, get another bot 😂

[spice adder]

This chat absolutely amuses me

[lyric pecan]

you can't really make it translate @subtle osprey it depends a lot, they're two different worlds

[sonic ridge]

doesnt matter, both of em played nimzo

[subtle osprey]

Ah okay

[lyric pecan]

@spice adder you and I both, buddy

[sacred lantern]

it depends, my otb rating is better than my blitz, but 200 point lower that my rapid

[fluid berry]

since now I'm talking with chess board

[spice adder]

🤝

[subtle osprey]

I wanted to ask because i have an otb tournament comin up for those whose fide rating is below 1600

[lyric pecan]

ES?

oh

E5

[spring spindle]

gllllll

[onyx prairie]

I personally like the Caro-Kann Defense Advance with the Botvinnik-Carls Variation, because it is kind of like a gambit - I like gambits - and as well because it allows the player with the black pieces to maintain stability in development on the board (e. g. Nge7) which establishes a connection between the two knights, but of course this knight has to move at some point to defend / recapture the c5 pawn. Furthermore the player with the black pieces has a slight advantage after a move like Nge7 which is uncommon because of the standard advantage which the player with the white pieces usually has. This variation also keeps at all times the opportunity to castle, but I prefer castling short because of the open queen side, which could be a problem in the future if e. g. the opponent plays a3 and b4 and keeps attacking the queen side.
Also after trading e. g. the bishop for the knight, the player with the white pieces has a less stable position than the other player, because e. g. of the knight on c6.
I play this opening very often because I bought the Caro-Kann course of Levy Rozman. I also looked at some other openings which respond to 1. e4, but the most I like is the Caro-Kann.

[raw nebula]

Yes, well I just had proof so i included it as a point since it wasnt me who said it, about the advantage some make it closer to 0.0 than others... You are right thought

[lyric pecan]

you can expect anything online from 1000 to almost 2000 tbh

[sacred lantern]

it is hard to tell, but if you are 2000 you have great chances

[woven zinc]

who da most creative person till now?

[spring spindle]

the pawn e6 in the caro kann is more defended than the pawn e5 in the french

[spring spindle]

i hope you win my guy

[waxen imp]

@lyric pecan which one do u like more

[lilac hearth]

The Caro–Kann is a common defence against the King's Pawn Opening. It is classified as a Semi-Open Game, like the Sicilian Defence and French Defence, although it is thought to be more solid and less dynamic than either of those openings. It often leads to good endgames for Black, who has the better pawn structure. It allows Black to circumvent enormous bodies of theory in 1.e4 openings such as the Ruy Lopez and the Sicilian Defence.

Unlike its sister opening, the French Defence, the Caro–Kann does not hinder the development of Black's light-squared bishop. However, it comes at the cost of a tempo because Black has to play 1...c6 before pushing the pawn to c5, whereas Black can push c7–c5 in one move in the French Defence. White can combat the Caro–Kann in several different ways, often gaining a space advantage; additionally, Black has less mobility and can lag in development.

[spring spindle]

sister opening?

[echo dawn]

geee pee tee

[half yacht]

once upon a time there was a young man who we'll call jeffery. now jeffery over here was a dogwater chess player. a 2 year old had better chances than him. basically he wa s a positional bozo and a tactical bozo. so our boy jeffery over here got a chess coach. (that chess coach is @spring spindle great coach btw u should hire him too) and jeffery got really really good. so jefferys coach suggested he should learn the french defense because it was really strong. however jeffery hated the french defense. he only learned the advanced french line and almost had a stroke after his opponent played nc3 to defend his pawn. jeffery over here told his coach he wasnt having this nonsense and hes gonna learn something else. poor jeffery also told his coach he couldn't deal with that light squared bishop! Jeffery really questioned whether or not center control was important after the french defense. His coach, seeing this, knew it was a bad habit and told him the following: "Ok, you don't like the french, that's fine. However, center control is important. It's like the center control is a direct passageway to the king, it's the quickest and safest way there." So, Jeffery decided to learn a similar opening: The Caro Kann. now jeffery absolutely loved this opening, his bishop was great, and he understood the main concepts a lot better than the french. Jeffery learning the caro kann really established a chess career for jeffery. He began climbing the ranks at an incredible pace,learning concepts left and right. After a while, people started calling him a chess genius. Soon, Jeffery became a chess coach too. He was some of the best there was! And that's the story of the legendary chess player:jeffery

[raw nebula]

THE GOOD FRENCH

[spring spindle]

wat i did not know that

[lyric pecan]

@woven zinc I have some names, but I always read through the whole thread to choose

[subtle osprey]

Bongcloud solos

[lyric pecan]

the good french

[half yacht]

ok thats my several paragraph story

[spring spindle]

^

[half yacht]

i need that diamond

[lilac hearth]

i play the pirc tho..

[lyric pecan]

check events tab btw guys cool stuff this week

[foggy furnace]

Caro-Kann for the simple fact that it's the only black opening i've learned so far lmao

[lyric pecan]

lmfao

[half yacht]

ok i spent 15 minutes writing a story about a guy named jeffery so if i dont win ill be pensive

[lilac hearth]

play pirc, its simple and very strong against players under 1300 elo

[echo dawn]

you mixed up jeffery and jeremy . But to your point, yes I agree the french bishop is and caro bishop is good, but what about all the french's compensation? My favorite thing about the french (as I mentioned in my first message) is we ask white "yeah, yeah, all of my pieces are slow to get activated... but how are you going to make further progress? 🧐" it's great!

[lilac hearth]

im a 1600 and i still play pirc

[half yacht]

frick

[spice adder]

The Caro-Kann is better because
French 🤮

[sacred lantern]

magnus plays it sometimes

[half yacht]

ok i removed the silman its just jeffery now

[raw nebula]

levy said that XD

[echo dawn]

nice😂

[woven zinc]

oh so tha translated is CONGRATS ASHER YOU WON THIS COMPETETION CUS U VERY CREATIVE , anyways thanks in advance I am not even surprised by the win I'm Asher its pretty much expected

[wanton horizon]

The french scare me

[echo dawn]

levy has to sell his courses

[lyric pecan]

[raw nebula]

LOL well he did 😄

[lyric pecan]

the good french is such a dig lmfao

[half yacht]

idk wtf the good french is

[lyric pecan]

well, you do get to play with two bishops

caro is the good french

lmfao

[half yacht]

oh

[lyric pecan]

like, it's the French. but good.

[spice adder]

Who need chess.com when can have chessly.com

[echo dawn]

it's sort of true if you don't look at the french for a long time and see the positions a bunch of moves later

[spice adder]

like fr

[raw nebula]

caro

[half yacht]

oh

[lyric pecan]

cheese dot com 😋

[spring spindle]

Of so hear me out, Why Caro Kann is better then french Reason number 1: There is this term called the french bishop, that bishop stays locked in cage behind the pawns of the french in the advance, and cant paricipate making the advance french better for white while in the caro kann advance varation has the play and plans are alot easier to figure out since you have the bishop out the pawn chain, Now moving past the advance varation Reason number 2 There is engine play, engine prep and engine games where when moves are played correct is shows that the french has been Countered with correct play, for example there was a Game between stockfish and Alpha zero where alpha zero showed that the french bishop is a real problem by quite literally not allowing any development on that bishop THE ENTIRE GAME. Reason 3: The caro Kann is an opening which thanks to youtubers like Levy Rozman and benzea Have gotten alot more coverage on youtube and platform where people learn The Caro for free and alot more easily. Reason number 4: When checking the data base of the caro kann compared with the french, it shows that one of the highest opeing winrates of black is The Caro Kann, This proves that the Caro kann is an opening that has players on the white side struggling to find counters. Reason number 5: The Caro Kann has been in the past decades to now at top levels played by alot more by Gms then the french for example: Karpov,Capablanca, Botvinnik and petrosian and spassky who all helped devolop the theory on the Caro Kann while in the past years the french specifically after the computer era has been played less and less as time goes on. Reason number 6: Caro Kann is simple in it varation the ideas are simplier to learn and Mastering the opening is even easier since there are 10 varations being the advance caro, exchange caro,panov and exal panov attack, The mainline spassky varation, Tartakower varation and classical varation,Fantasy, bronstein larsen(i cant type more need nitro)

[raw nebula]

chessly does not have a playing feature

[lone trench]

oh wow it's mrandgaster karry gasparov

[spice adder]

The Dutch want to know your location

[spice adder]

Damn tru

[raw nebula]

GPT 😄

[frigid moss]

In French Defense, our light-squared bishop is a good-for-nothing shut-in NEET who's wasting their days hiding in the corner blocking the path of our queenside pieces from developing; in Caro-Kann, our light-squared bishop is a hard-working breadwinner who rushes out of the safety of our pawn chain to earn that juicy elo points for us -- ALL at the cost of just one tempo. Which light-squared bishop do you want to have? Invest your tempo today for a better bishop future.

[raw nebula]

[little delta]

@sonic kayak

[spring spindle]

On my life it aint gpt i took all my time writing that

caro>

[fluid berry]

bongcloud better than anything

[spice adder]

Only one way to find out

[raw nebula]

yeah i know looked like GPT but really cool GJ!

[spring spindle]

pls go ahead

[lyric pecan]

@pai

[spring spindle]

thank you

[raw nebula]

np

[lyric pecan]

which means dad in portuguese

[spring spindle]

since the thread started i took all my time writing all of that

[little delta]

that person said he couldnt join the thread so i pinged him

[lyric pecan]

that doesnt look like gpt

[lyric pecan]

oh bet

kekw

[spring spindle]

:))

[little delta]

@pai

[spice adder]

Yeah I checked it

[lyric pecan]

probably theyre not connected

[spring spindle]

So? what was it?

[lyric pecan]

i changed perms now

[little delta]

should that matteer

[subtle osprey]

Has magnus joined this server

[little delta]

o

[spice adder]

You wrote it

[little delta]

[lyric pecan]

[spring spindle]

[spice adder]

Give my man @spring spindle his diamond

[lyric pecan]

speak, just joined!

[spice adder]

Bro deserves it

[little delta]

@sonic kayak hello sir

[echo dawn]

#1 what do you think of the compensation for the light bishop in the french? and #2 stockfish and alphazero have won and lost games in every opening, are you sure one game makes the french bad?

[spring spindle]

😭 thank you

[lyric pecan]

@sonic kayak sorry, I got the perms right now I hope

[spice adder]

Nah bro

Thank YOU

🤝

[lyric pecan]

you two:

[spice adder]

fr

[lyric pecan]

this whole server tbh

[little delta]

we pinged the dude lik 5 times now 🗿

[lyric pecan]

]all chads

[spring spindle]

Anitta:🐐

caro-kann gains more control of the center if they accept

[raw nebula]

I TOOK THAT ROOK ON A4 I JUST DIDNT LIKE IT....

[sonic kayak]

oh its alr thank you

[little delta]

pog

[lyric pecan]

and you connected

pog

[spice adder]

Chess.com server mfs try not to be extremely based challenge (very impposible):

[lyric pecan]

welcome

[little delta]

[lyric pecan]

[little delta]

yippee

[lyric pecan]

FR FR FR FR

except for the fact that we have a server clash royale clan

[spring spindle]

Bro is incredible

[echo dawn]

when does the thread close and the decisions are made? @lyric pecan

[waxen imp]

fr?

[lyric pecan]

thats kinda cringe but we have fun

fr lol

[spice adder]

🤝

[waxen imp]

link?

[lyric pecan]

@echo dawn there's an event going on

[spring spindle]

im having so much fun lmao

[lyric pecan]

sure, one second

[spice adder]

Y'all mfs are the 🐐

[raw nebula]

.

.

[spring spindle]

right back at ya

[spice adder]

💀

[sonic ridge]

"The Sicilian Defense is the most popular response to White's 1.e4. Employed by masters and beginners alike, the Sicilian Defense is a reputable and positionally sound opening. Still, the Sicilian is a combative opening that tends to lead to dynamic and sharp positions."
Chess.com

"The Sicilian is the most popular and best-scoring response to White's first move 1.e4. Opening 1.d4 is a statistically more successful opening for White because of the high success rate of the Sicilian defence against 1.e4"
Wikipedia

Sicilian is fun, lots of creative ideas are present, but even the most basic idea of flank pawn is quite good for beginners imo(ive been playing it since before i reached 1k elo)
lots of future potential as there is lot to learn in sicilian at all the different levels, games dont get boring when sicilian is played, and once players r out of their habitual moves, it tests em for their chess skills properly through potential imbalance
it has dragon variations which absolutely amuses people, its variations are quite fun sounding, even from white's perspective, like who wouldnt like to discover themselves in something called grand prix attk.
playing style in sicilian never gets stale and repetitive purely cause of so many possible variations and the chaos that can be bought upon the board
if one wants to invest time and resources against 1.e4 that can be used for several of their lifetimes, they should do it in sicilian.

doesnt matter if noobs cant utilise it to its full potential, it can definitely utilise the noobs to their full potential

[little delta]

and the facts the sicilian was left out

[echo dawn]

for how much longer?

[subtle osprey]

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/76870419251?tab=review
can any premium player review

[elfin citrus]

Blazene69 (1131) vs. Welew12 (1078)

Move List

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. dxc5 Bxc5 6. Bf4 Nf6 7. e3 Nc6 8. Nc3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. O-O d4 11. exd4 Nxd4 12. Nxd4 Bg4 13. Nf3 Bxf3 14. Qxf3 b6 15. Rad1 Qd7 16. Bb5 Qg4 17. Qxg4 Nxg4 18. Bxe8 Rxe8 19. Bg3 h5 20. Rfe1 Rxe1+ 21. Rxe1 g5 22. Re8+ Kg7 23. Be5+ Nf6 24. Bxf6+ Kxf6 25. Ne4+ Kg7 26. Nxc5 bxc5 27. Ra8 g4 28. Rxa7 h4 29. Rc7 g3 30. Rxc5 Kg6 31. a4 f5 32. a5 Kg5 33. fxg3 hxg3 34. hxg3 Kg4 35. a6 f4 36. a7 f3 37. a8=Q Kxg3 38. Qxf3+ Kh4 39. Rc4+ Kg5 40. Qd5+ Kf6 41. Rc6+ Ke7 42. Qh5 Kd7 43. Ra6 Ke7 44. Qh7+ Kd8 45. Ra8# 

[spice adder]

At this point idc about the diamond im just very interested in the chat lmao

[sonic ridge]

wait we do??

[spring spindle]

I fr wrote so much discord did not allow me to write more i wrote 6 reasons i was gonna write 10

[little delta]

[sacred notch]

Sicilian!

[subtle osprey]

Im Challenger III

[little delta]

Thats what i said!!!!!!

[foggy furnace]

i need to learn more openings and their variations in general tbh. literally the London and the Caro-Kann are the only two i have somewhat of a good idea on and i want a little more variance in my gameplay, so i'll keep that in mind

[sonic ridge]

we hv server clans/clubs in all supercell games?? 😂

[raw nebula]

8 hours

[spice adder]

Discord sabotaging the chess grind 😔

[little delta]

no only clash royale i believe

[spring spindle]

Fr told me to get nitro to type more

[sonic ridge]

since when???

[little delta]

idk im not in it lmao

[sacred notch]

I'm not plagiarizing, just really Sicilian is the best!

[little delta]

indeed! i agree

[spice adder]

Let bro write his 600 page essay on chess discord 🙏

[sonic ridge]

any idea how long has it been around? 😂 since before cr went downhill or after 😂

[little delta]

@lyric pecan

[spring spindle]

FR

[echo dawn]

make a .txt file then link it💯

[spice adder]

omfg

[sacred notch]

Sicilian is the best
French and Caro are trash
Because I and not only said 🥲

[spice adder]

genius

[sonic ridge]

all hail sicilian ||(and 1 minute of thought put into this answer cause im lazy)||

[lilac hearth]

i mean im hitting the point where it becomes unusable because white has wayyy too much space in the opening, and if opponent plays well its hard to get pawn breaks, but you should easily beat people with it

[little delta]

@gusty delta also hello

[spice adder]

Caro/French fans:
Bongcloud enjoyers:

[little delta]

nvm wrong ping

oopsie

@native heart also hello

[vagrant field]

Caro on top

[lyric pecan]

sorry vulcan I screwed up the perms

[echo dawn]

I'd argue both the caro kann and french are useable until you hit gm when there are better options, but they are definitely useable there

[little delta]

[lyric pecan]

just joined people couldnt talk cause it's default in activities

@vagrant field yall should connect tho

[elfin citrus]

Chess.com Bot

Connect Account

Click the button below to connect your Discord account to Chess.com! Connecting your account gives you access to more channels and features in the server.

[lyric pecan]

for perms

[spice adder]

Yo ngl

[lyric pecan]

thanks for the help @little delta

[spice adder]

I literally just connected like 10 minutes ago 😭

[subtle osprey]

WHY IS MY IP ADDRESS UR USERNAME

[spice adder]

I have been in this server for longer tho

[subtle osprey]

HAKER!

[lyric pecan]

it's ok welcome to the cool kids club who now can't fall victim to this sticker

KEKW

[sonic ridge]

😂

[spice adder]

It's been pretty cool since I connected

[lyric pecan]

also if you check out #🔖〡roles you'll see all the cool things you get

[spice adder]

Only based people to be seen

[lyric pecan]

you can get in the club too we have an arena

[sonic ridge]

is there one for non trusted too? 😂

[spice adder]

Gotta do what we gotta do

[lilac hearth]

i was talking about the pirc

[lyric pecan]

you're based, I like you @spice adder

[little delta]

sir aye sir

[lyric pecan]

sorry we cant disobey luigi but your answer was cool

oh no he deleted noooo

[spice adder]

you're pretty based yourself too 🤝

[echo dawn]

it got deleted praise luigi the french enjoyer

[half yacht]

anitta did you see my large story
(just asking so i know it wasnt a waste )

[lyric pecan]

[lyric pecan]

I always read through all the thread before deciding on winners

[half yacht]

kewl i was going to be sad that i wrote 15 minutes of a paragraph for no reason

[subtle osprey]

website is acting weird

isnt letting me buy diamond

[lyric pecan]

when the event ends, I'll read the thread so don't worry

[spice adder]

Very nice 👍

[lyric pecan]

@subtle osprey wym

[little delta]

ALL?

[sonic ridge]

hmmm, now one can just vote for both options 🤔

[lyric pecan]

all

[spice adder]

Bro just wanted his diamond flair 😔

[lyric pecan]

[spice adder]

Crazy

[little delta]

no shot

[lyric pecan]

yes shot

[little delta]

das cray cray

[echo dawn]

[little delta]

Hope the reading of the whole chat is going well anitta : )

[subtle osprey]

When im trying to buy diamond it says "Use another card" but my credit card works fine everywhere else

[lyric pecan]

I was in law school, I used to read boring stuff twice as long kekw

[lyric pecan]

hm that's weird

[little delta]

fr fr

[spice adder]

Absolutely incredible

[lyric pecan]

you should contact the billing department

[slim apex]

are we still writing answers for the french vs caro-kann?

[lyric pecan]

we are

[slim apex]

ok

[lyric pecan]

until the event ends

[subtle osprey]

from where?

[slim apex]

I'm improving mine now

[raw nebula]

.

[lyric pecan]

@subtle osprey hold up I'll send you links and faq

[spice adder]

gl

[slim apex]

?

[spice adder]

Good luck

Im wishing you luck

[slim apex]

thanks

[half yacht]

g

[subtle osprey]

thanks!

[lyric pecan]

membership faq https://support.chess.com/category/135-membership-and-billing
support contact (click orange button) https://support.chess.com/article/346-contact-us

or email them at [e-mail]

[echo dawn]

so did everyone finish writing their essays and now theres nothing to talk about?

[spice adder]

Customer support in the French VS Caro thread 💀

[lyric pecan]

KEKW

mb

[spice adder]

i guess so

[lyric pecan]

anyway caro superior cause french boring

[sonic ridge]

ye it happens in waves 😂

[echo dawn]

nooo its aggressive try it

[sonic kayak]

Well, I'd say caro kann because it's popular among grandmasters and my grandfather, who taught me to play it. Additionally, it gives solid endgames. I used caro kann against my grandfather in his final game before he passed away and stopped playing chess until just a few months ago, when I decided to pick it back up again with the goal of becoming a grandmaster (sorry, I don't know much about theory and my elo is 700).

[lyric pecan]

but anyone can win no matter their opinion

[lyric pecan]

how is it agressive

it's e6

[lyric pecan]

oh your grandpa!! that's cool

[spice adder]

Even if their opinion is wrong cuz they like the french

Its okay

[lyric pecan]

[subtle osprey]

thanks!

[sonic kayak]

i could never beat him

[lyric pecan]

yeah they're entitled to their wrong opinion, that's totally fine

[sonic ridge]

😂

[spice adder]

Yo we gotta stop flaming the french before we get publicly executed or smth 💀

[waxen imp]

a dead bishop.. aggressive.. sure

[lyric pecan]

that's how I started learning chess. my father beat me in a game once. and then I promised myself to only play him again when he could no longer beat me

[echo dawn]

its one of the most dynamic openings around, black expands heavily on the queen side, while white does on the kingside, its a race to attack the other player. Black sacrifices two pawns on the kingside quite often in the winawer variation because thats just how good our counterplay is! Maybe we're slow at developing, but we attack them right when they attack us!

[echo dawn]

have you ever played the french?

[sonic ridge]

did it work out??

[lyric pecan]

yeah

[sonic kayak]

thats so cool

[lyric pecan]

lol

[waxen imp]

i did

[drifting shoal]

Carrie is for sure better! (I watch Gotham chess)

[lyric pecan]

Carrie lol

[drifting shoal]

Auto correct

Lmao

[sonic ridge]

carrie kann 💯

[lyric pecan]

i like the nickname ngl

Carry Kann

[echo dawn]

and you didnt get any counterplay for the bad bishop? You guys should understand the opening exists for a reason!

[drifting shoal]

Carrie kann goes hard

[lyric pecan]

fair enough

[waxen imp]

its not** ideal for people below 2k

[lyric pecan]

cpslays connect your acc

[spice adder]

Carrier pigeon goes crazy 🔥

[echo dawn]

(also which was played in the WC, caro kann or french😜 )

[waxen imp]

better options such as carry exist

[lyric pecan]

fair enough 2

[little delta]

or the sicilian

[echo dawn]

but then how did ding play it

[sonic ridge]

👆

[waxen imp]

he isn't below 2k

[echo dawn]

oh you edited

[little delta]

[drifting shoal]

Where do I go to do that

[echo dawn]

I mean I play it below 2k with an insane winrate with it!

[lyric pecan]

anywhere really but here:

[spice adder]

type ./connect

[elfin citrus]

Chess.com Bot

Connect Account

Click the button below to connect your Discord account to Chess.com! Connecting your account gives you access to more channels and features in the server.

[sonic ridge]

whoever uses wcc as a reason needs to go on a losing streak with nimzo 😂

[lyric pecan]

it also works

[waxen imp]

u wouldn't be below 2k if u had insane win rate,(no offence)

try other openings

[lyric pecan]

#🔖〡roles @drifting shoal

[waxen imp]

i tried frech hated it to core

[lyric pecan]

I hate seeing it tbh

BUT

[waxen imp]

e4,c5,c6 all are way better

[echo dawn]

I was 400; 100 days ago btw, my rating increase has been amazing

[hollow thicket]

They're Both Pretty Closed

[lyric pecan]

I beat Richard (other server admin) when he played it once

kekw

[waxen imp]

even d5 is better than french

[sonic ridge]

i rarely see french

[lyric pecan]

he fell for the only trap possible in the french which is that bishop check discovered queen attack one

[little delta]

do you live in another country?

[lyric pecan]

when you trade on e4 and they think oh cool free pawn

[little delta]

[drifting shoal]

Ok I added it

[lyric pecan]

pog

[drifting shoal]

*connected it

[waxen imp]

wait till u inc a bit more, ur gonna start hating it once u reach 1950ish range

[lyric pecan]

you're now trusted you can even send pictures

[echo dawn]

he fell for milner barry noooooo

[lyric pecan]

he did

[spice adder]

HE IS THE ONE THAT IS TRUSTED

[sonic ridge]

well yes, but i dont see it at chess.com much either 😂

[lyric pecan]

he was my boss at the time too

[little delta]

[lyric pecan]

kekw

[little delta]

milner barry

[spring spindle]

caro kann takes center more

[drifting shoal]

Lmao, you were rooting for Ian to, you have role. It sucks that he sells

[echo dawn]

How do you know? It's playable at every level, and aggressive at every level. When I get there I can choose between finally learning the theory (which is much less than most black openings against e4 at that level), or switching. People play the dutch and benko all the way to gm level, the french is way less dubious.

[drifting shoal]

Didn't he sell against magnus once as well?

[waxen imp]

even h5 is playable with this logic

i said it isn't the best option out there

[little delta]

but why would black go Qb6 in the french

[lyric pecan]

I was

[waxen imp]

specially for beginners since they dontknow how to defend cramped positions

[lyric pecan]

Qb6 is a move in the french

[little delta]

it looks kinda weird

[waxen imp]

if u still believe its good, try playing a game against me

[echo dawn]

no you said I would start hating it LOL,

[waxen imp]

using french

[little delta]

why move Q when nothing is developed

lol

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-hehehe-hahahaha-laugh-diabolical-gif-14502501

[lyric pecan]

https://www.chess.com/openings/French-Defense-Advance-Paulsen-Attack-5...Qb6-6.Be2

[drifting shoal]

What are you rated now?

[echo dawn]

obviously its not the best option out there, neither is the caro! Nobody plays the najdorf, grunfeld, and ruy lopez (except MVL) because its just too much theory, even at gm level

[lyric pecan]

you're going for the pawn

plus for the b2 one

[waxen imp]

yh when i was using the french i was getting htese passive positions

[echo dawn]

1500

[waxen imp]

and didn't like them

[little delta]

nvm

[lyric pecan]

i screwed up the link

[little delta]

typi

[lyric pecan]

[little delta]

:^)

[lyric pecan]

typi

[sonic ridge]

😂😂😂

[echo dawn]

I've been using anish giri's course on chessable, its the opposite for me

[slim apex]

I honestly don't play the Caro-Kann since my chess "teacher" prefers the French defense, but I have to say that the Caro-Kann opening seems to be a stronger and more dependable chess opening than the French because it provides Black with excellent defense against aggressive play. The opening requires a high level of comprehension to play, that's why many grandmasters, like Anatoly Karpov, Mikhail Botvinnik or even José Raúl Capablanca, prefer Caro Kann over other openings. In my opinion it is the choice of true chess GOATS who want to demonstrate their remarkable and deep understanding of the game, due to this opening's subtle strategic variations (For example the Exchange or Advance Variation).

[drifting shoal]

[little delta]

i understand it now ye i see

[waxen imp]

i mean opening doesn't even matter at even gm level much if stockfish plays; so u winning or losing isn't just becuase of the opening

[little delta]

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-milner-barry-gambit-and-the-trap in this example it was different move order

[echo dawn]

wdym you're like 700 points higher than me, I couldnt win in any opening lol

[waxen imp]

just becuase ur winning its not just because of opening, same for losing too

[spring spindle]

also if yall dont mind me askings whos owner

[little delta]

oh thats an amzing trap ngl

damn

[drifting shoal]

I think they just want to take over in the opening to show you how it could be exploited

[waxen imp]

so i was judging the opening the resulting positions u get in the various main lines

[echo dawn]

well yeah the mainlines look bad for black, but theres still lots of aggression on the queenside and you always have compensation.

[sonic kayak]

@lyric pecansry for the ping but how do you choose the winner?

[little delta]

hand picked

[waxen imp]

doubt black will be able to do anything in the queenside

[sonic kayak]

ahh i see

[waxen imp]

anyway

[drifting shoal]

Bro just leq the answer lol

[little delta]

anitta reads the whole chat

[waxen imp]

its just my opinion

[drifting shoal]

Damn, how long will it be open for, that a lot of messages

[waxen imp]

try out e5 or d5, i feel u wont go back to french after playing d5

scandi is highly underrated

[drifting shoal]

Tennyson gambit go crazy

[echo dawn]

this is between french and caro lol

[drifting shoal]

*tennison gambit

[little delta]

yea idk, anitta is wild

[echo dawn]

look at thisss!

[drifting shoal]

That king side is doing NOTHING. That is crazy

Only queen side

Nothing elese

[echo dawn]

thats a mainline advance

[drifting shoal]

Ah, I see

[sonic ridge]

📌

[waxen imp]

this is one of the main lines

i wouldn't want to be black here lmao

[echo dawn]

winawer right

[drifting shoal]

Of French, carro, or scandi

?

[waxen imp]

french

[drifting shoal]

Ah, ok

[waxen imp]

around 2650 master games from this position

[echo dawn]

winawer is one of the most complicated openings in chess, all these positions look really bad for black but if you learn just a few more moves it's pretty much dead equal

[echo dawn]

why would they play it if it was bad?

[waxen imp]

they are gms?

i dont think a 1500 can defend this

will get clapped in few moves

thats why i was saying below 2k not recommended,

[drifting shoal]

I have a friend who plays the French and he is about 1800 online. I don't really like it because at my lower rating it's more effective to go for things like the carro

[flint spoke]

This is one of the mainlines of the french defense in the winawer variation. Objectively, it's 0.0, but imo black definitely has some chances here.

[echo dawn]

do you think a 1500 knows the exact line for this with white?

[urban flicker]

Caro Kann, because in just second move I can control center with help of pawn c5. If someone play d4, I can sacrifice my pawn and then capture it with bishop. Then I have bishop developed, and my development is better. It's easier to play, because it isn't as much close as French Defense.

[echo dawn]

poisoned pawn is great :)

[drowsy grove]

French is just op

[echo dawn]

this is why markus is my goat

[drowsy grove]

no further answer needed

[sullen marsh]

Caro-khan is better

[flint spoke]

French is great IMO. I have a really good winrate with the French defense without knowing much theory

[waxen imp]

neither does black, and black is the one who will be in trouble if he doesn't know his theory

[sullen marsh]

I rarely play these two but caro khan clears imo

[waxen imp]

below 2k its very bad

[drowsy grove]

no

[echo dawn]

so you agree? Check how many times this position occurs in lichess DB for under 1500s lmao

[flint spoke]

there are some quite aggressive lines in the french that give black good chances. Obviously it depends on the individual and their playstyle.

[waxen imp]

i literally see so many of my friends play french in otb fide tournaments and get wrekt in those cramped positions

[waxen imp]

33k games

non master games

and 6k below 1600 games

this line quite few 1500s know

this is wht one of my friend plays as white(1600 elo) when he gets a chance

[flint spoke]

There's also the option to play Qc7 instead of castles

[lost merlin]

French all the way! Caro-Kann is boring

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan I wrote to you in dm because I am having trouble in sending the answer for this forum 😦

[spring spindle]

[buoyant delta]

kao kann cause the french is to complicated for my dum brain

[ruby kindle]

I'm a French Defense player because it offers good chances for development and active play. I like having a strong pawn structure and being able to pressure on the center. It can lead to dynamic and interesting games. I've played the Caro-Kann a few times, and it can be a strong opening, but I find it has less potential for tactical play and it can be a little more passive which doesn't suit my style.

[spring spindle]

bongcloud

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/despierta-ya-gif-24011402

[covert vapor]

French Defense is superior at the lower levels. At OTB tournaments I am usually winning out of the opening since my opponents don't know it.

[cobalt lintel]

I like playing the caro-kann because nobody knows how to play against it at a lower level

[thin mist]

So do I have to write this creative answer, in order to win a wonderful diamond membership on my favourite site ? Let's start: I don't play the french defense nor the caro kann. No, I am not a noob, but they are very booooooring openings. C'monnnnnn, how can you start a game playing 1. e6 or 1. c6 ?????????? I am very surprised that the chess.com game review hasn't already said that it is a big blunder So you want to move your pawn for only one square ? But haven't your teacher taught that the pawn can also be moved for about 2 squares on the first move of the pawns ?????? I think you have just learned chess watching gothamchess (You have to hear only the name to think that he is a noob or some sort of NPC). So why don't you play more creative moves??? you said that we had to write a creative answer , but why can't we play a creative game 🙂 ?????? Think for a moment outside the box :1. Rh1-i1 2. Ri9 3. Re9 4. Rxe8, this is a very simple system that can manage you to win a lot of games . So maybe you might think that I am a noob or a NPC like gothamchess . So let me introduce myself to you........ I am, that's right, you guessed it....... the ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spice adder]

If I ever use this many emojis in one message
I want someone to stab me

[white topaz]

caro kann

[sonic ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/my-thoughts-exactly-i-concur-yep-andre-braugher-ray-holt-gif-16365732

[spice adder]

🤝

[humble talon]

Both openings. Bee my Inspiration and spirit at the day. Have a nice feeling.

[digital flint]

Caro-kann has much better lines and is way more enjoyable to play. And the French is something everyone hates.

[opaque wagon]

Maybe now i don't know why but i chose caro kann. Maybe because of Gotham, maybe because caro kann is more positional, maybe because I played a lot of french games.

French is more about having the control of the centre. You have lots of pieces remaining and you still don't want to trade them. French creates good endgame opportunities.

Caro kann is always more positional. Even the exchange one. The develop ways, and the variations are harder, but more interesting. Also, It is more dynamic. The differences between lines are very big. You can have an exchange endgame or all heavy pieces endgame. It's amazing just to play multiple times and realize how depth chess is.
Caro kann all the way.

[lapis hatch]

Caro-Kann, positionally speaking, decimates french

[spring spindle]

Caro is ridiculously boring, the only Caro players I see are those who take Levy’s words as gospel and think playing 1… c5 will instantly delete all your chess knowledge.

[spring spindle]

that was cool but

i didnt force u to learn french

i forced u to learn how to play against french

u were always -15 by move 2 against french

[echo dawn]

this proves french >>>

[spring spindle]

fr

[spice flume]

The French Defense can result in a more attacking and exciting game with chances for Black to counterattack on the queenside. Meanwhile, the Caro-Kann Defense can lead to a calmer and more strategic game, giving Black opportunities to control the center and play for a draw.

But in all fairness, both are good in their own ways. Caro-Kann is more positional, French Defense is more tactical 🙂

[fickle cypress]

Caro, the french bishop is WAYYYY to annoying ngl and i know theory in the french (althought not professional or something) and in the caro kann (one of my main openings as black)

[white cedar]

Ong

[lapis hatch]

what's boring is playing a piece down in an exhausting closed position every time you play the french

[fickle cypress]

^^^

[lapis hatch]

also if you want proof caro can be exciting look at Firouzja's games

[restive wagon]

I don’t like the Caro-Kann but I hate French people so Caro-Kann it is

[lapis hatch]

caro isnt exciting in a every-move-could-be-a-blunder way, but both sides are trying to prove something simultaneously (similar to the KID) and its interesting at the least

[fickle cypress]

Racist exposed?

[restive wagon]

what?

[carmine oar]

French Defense! I enjoy playing the French vs Caro as Black, and strongly dislike playing against the French vs Caro as White. That's just me tho.

[grand hedge]

Caro-Kann is a more creative name than French Defense.

[lapis hatch]

'French Defense' sounds pretentious

[brazen imp]

caro kann is more effective

[lone trench]

wouldn't the french defense just be... pressing the flag? (i wonder how many times this not even funny joke has been told)

anyways idk i like caro kann more

[mild hollow]

Caro because there can be some variations with winning chances, and you don't always have a space disadvantage

[noble onyx]

look guys i don't think there's any competition

the Caro-Kann defense is better than the French Defense, the reason for this is simple: long term advantages. For example in the French defense a normal game would go e4, e6, d4, d5, Qf3, a5, Nh3, a4, Nh5, a3, but in this position white already has an advantage due to the fact that white's bishop on f1 controls more space and is more active than black's bishop on c8. As for the Caro-Kann, it simply doesn't have any of the bishop problems the French Defense has because it supports the center with the c pawn instead of a center pawn. In the advance variation of the Caro-Kann you're able to support the center with the e pawn without blocking in the bishop unlike the French Defense, for example, typical moves would be e4, c6, d4, d5, e5, bf5, h4, e3, with this you develop the bishop and create a powerful pawn pyramid similar to openings like the London System. All in all i believe it's safe to say that the Caro-Kann is just the better opening since it has all the upsides of the French Defense without the biggest downside.

[echo dawn]

yes of course the average french game Qf3, a5, Nh3, a4, Nh5, a3

[half yacht]

hey its not based off my life story its based off of jeffery

[spice flume]

you outlined one game that is biased towards white

[hot oasis]

Tried the French for a while, could never work out when to push f6, light squad bishop is trapped, went Caro from watching IM Alex Banzea.

[spring spindle]

Tbf the Qf3 mainline is a bit dodgy, but lines like e4 e6 d4 d5 Nc3 Bb4 exd5 exd5 Nxd5 Bxe1 give Black a really active position and good compensation for the lost pawn

[spare kraken]

none of the above. e5 is the obvious superior answer

[spring spindle]

💀

e5 is great if you want to play into your opponent’s prep like a mindless sheep

[teal surge]

Caro Kann is easier to learn, positions are simpler and Levy likes it

[thin cedar]

french defense is better. French is better because there is more solid theory for the moves. There is really not a good answer to the french (or the caro, but u can do advance). Plus, french is (in my opinion, and at lower ranks), less prepared for, and people will not know what to donagainst it. With the caro, gotham plays it donthey will probaly know anfew things about it.

[viral night]

In my opinion the Caro kann is better than the French because if you play the French (e6) your opponent can put put both of their pawns in the centre and if you try to fight for the centre by playing d5 your opponent can advance their e pawn to e5, which is the advance variation of the French defense and puts a pawn into your territory while still in the centre and blocks your g8 knight from developing to a good square forcing it (if you want to develop the g8 knight after they advance the e pawn) to the rim where your opponents passive dark squared bishop can capture it and create doubled pawns for you. I only really mentioned the French defense advance variation but I think similar things would happen in different variations.

For the Caro kann, after playing it and if your opponent plays d4 putting both of their pawns in the centre, instead of them being able to advance a pawn that will create problems for developing pieces, when you do develop a pawn to d5 and if they advance their e pawn, you can still develop pieces like your light squared bishop and open lines for you dark squared bishop and later attack whites two central pawns. Again I was only using the advance variation but I think similar things will happen in different variations.

Although the French and Caro could be in someone’s opinion both bad or both good and so on, out of two I think the Caro kann defense is better.

[thin cedar]

Chatgpt moment

[viral night]

No

[thin cedar]

I mean play scicilian nobody excempt gms can have good prep for that, esp najdorf

[sonic ridge]

80/324 interesting

[spring spindle]

Except many White players do have good prep against the Sicilian, since it’s the most popular opening at club level

Most people at least have an anti-Sicilian like Alapin or Grand Prix

[thin cedar]

just prep for it

[cedar lance]

Safer king: In the Caro-Kann, your king is often safer, as the pawn structure tends to be more solid.

Open lines: The Caro-Kann opens up more lines for your pieces to move and helps them be active.

Better bishop: In the French Defense, the light-squared bishop can be blocked. In the Caro-Kann, it has a better chance to be useful.

Center control: The Caro-Kann allows you to better control the center with your pawns and pieces.

Less cramped: The Caro-Kann gives your pieces more space to move around the board compared to the French Defense.

(I seriously spent 30 minutes just for the Diamond Membership, it's also kinda annoying s ince I have to type "Karo-Kann")

[violet minnow]

I know the votes do not agree but obviously the french is waaay better

[white cedar]

mika spreading misinformation

how could you

[echo dawn]

us french lovers have to stay strong🫡

[echo dawn]

well by defauly chat gpt is on american english so it would spell centre center

(and AI checker says it was 99.9% human)

[static stratus]

French is good.
But Caro is amazing.
Here's why:
Firstly, that poor c8 bishop in the French... This is the saddest bishop of all time. It's locked in a jail of light squared pawns and can't get out. While in the Caro-Kann it almost always being developed to f5 or g4 and either stands on a good diagonal and sees a lot of stuff or exchanges itself and the light-squared pawn chain does it's job.
Secondly, French fans can argue that in the Advance Variation you often spend 2 tempos on playing c6 and then c5. Yes it's true. But remember about that bishop in the French. How many tempos do you guys need to get it active? 😉
Thirdly, a crime against chess in the French. The Exchange Variation. There's literally nothing you can do to avoid it. White can just force you into this boring and symmetrical world. While in the Exchange Variation of the Caro results you get a Carlsbad structure as you often do in the QGD, London, etc. And you can apply similar plans (minority attack with a6-b5-a5-b4, playing for a central break with f6-e5 like you do in the Exchange QGD with colors reversed and many other good stuff that you can do to make a position interesting).
So that's why Caro is better... excuse me, much better than the French

[hidden shuttle]

Caro got the Fantasy variation, French doesn't => Caro is better

[warm thunder]

caro is levy approved

[static stratus]

Fr

[inner tapir]

But the advanced variation of the Caro can be rly annoying

[hidden shuttle]

If I don't win this then it is clealry rigged

[static stratus]

True

[spring spindle]

The French Defense Vs The Caro Kann, Chapter 1: Denial Of Whats Right. 🫴 For the times of a debate the Caro Vs the French has been at stake🫴 Now No Time Remains 🫴 For all of us has been taking sides, Its time to provide🫴 Provide what ohh provide what, Provide the right answer for whats right 🫴,For we all know The Caro is a supperior Fight Stop The Wars, Stop The Fight The Answer han been Just 🙌 .

Im bored so i put my poet glasses on and made my 2nd attempt

[stable hearth]

French defense because stockfish said so 🙂

[drowsy grove]

Fantasy variation only good in dreams 😉

[mental aurora]

caro-kann because who tf loves french stuff (other than en passant)

[twin vigil]

Fried Fox Defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sicilian >>>>> Caro > French

[lavish sentinel]

The French defense is pretty good but i think the Caro-Kann defense is better. It is better than french defense in my opninion because it has a better and good pawn structure, providing an amazing structure for your game. It can counter many moves. So bassicaly in Caro-Kann defence the Black's pieces can find good squares to develop if he has a good brain and knoweldge to techniques.. This allows for quick and fast and more piece movement and creates good possibilities and amazing counterplay. The Caro-Kann Defence also allows better development for eg- for the light-squared bishopWith pawns on c6 and d5, the bishop can go to the square of d6, providing more strategic options. In the French Defence, the light-squared bishop can be more challenging to develop effectively due to pawn structures and potential pawn things like u know.The Caro-Kann allows Black to develop pieces more freely while the French Defense already blocks one of the Bishops from Developing on the second move The Caro-Kann defence is the one most preferred by many GMs. It leads to a pawn structure that is better and has less weakness as compared to the French defence. Also for player who like to play agressive the Tartakower (Fantasy) Variation is quite good for White this puts the pawn on f3 strength more and White s center one e4 pawn, but the onlt thing is that it blocks White's knight from developing and weakening the squares around the king. But still its good.You will not have to worry about the pawn's throughout the game. The Caro-Kann is also a better opening, which makes it a good for noobs like me and a better option than the Slican or French Defence. The Caro-Kann Defence has also been played between games of GMS. Many grandmasters, like Karpov and Vishwanathan Anand, have played the Caro-Kann Defence in their games. It is also a popular choice for noobs/beginner to grandmaster.

You can also see a fantastic game of Caro-Kann Defense ⬇️

In this game between gm kasrpov won/ Garry Kasparov vs Anatoly Karpov - Linares 1992 - Caro-Kann Defense

Moves-1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5 Ngf6 6. Bc4
e6 7. Qe2 Nb6 8. Bb3 h6 9. N5f3 c5 10. Bf4 Bd6 11. Bg3 Qe7
12. dxc5 Bxc5 13. Ne5 Bd7 14. Ngf3 Nh5 15. O-O-O Nxg3 16. hxg3
O-O-O 17. Rh5 Be8 18. Rxd8+ Kxd8 19. Qd2+ Bd6 20. Nd3 Qc7
21. g4 Kc8 22. g5 Bf8 23. Rh4 Kb8 24. a4 Be7 25. a5 Nd5
26. Kb1 Bd8 27. a6 Qa5 28. Qe2 Nb6 29. axb7 Bxg5 30. Nxg5 Qxg5
31. Rh5 Qf6 32. Ra5 Bc6 33. Nc5 Bxb7 34. Nxb7 Kxb7 35. Qa6+
Kc6 36. Ba4+ Kd6 37. Qd3+ Nd5 38. Qg3+ Qe5 39. Qa3+ Kc7
40. Qc5+ Kd8 41. Rxa7 1-0

[spring spindle]

if advanced caro then play botvinnik carls defense

[hidden shuttle]

Actually good advise

[spring spindle]

yeahhhh

u play the caro?

[hidden shuttle]

I do

[noble onyx]

true, but white has dominant control of the center along with black's king being more vulnerable due to the knight on d5

[carmine oar]

The correlation between player strength and French vs Caro opening preference is interesting.

[sonic ridge]

[strong bane]

French cuz yes

[tacit dragon]

The Caro Kann is better, since it is a much simpler opening to learn, has very easy lines, the light squared bishop in the french is trash, like literally, cannot move, the difference is in the caro kann, u have the light squared bishop out, the plans are much simpler in the caro kann as u try to push for c5 in some variations, putting the light squared bishop on f5, if it gets traded then the knight, in my personal opinion this is why the Caro-Kann defense is superior to beginners and intermediates, as if you play the french you would need to know how to hold the position, closed.

[lean pulsar]

I am only 1300-1400 ELO and I am quite new to Chess so I don't think my experience as good as someone from more skilled but I would still like to give my opinion.

I personally believe the Caro-Kann is a better opening due to these reasons:

1. The Caro-Kann has a better pawn structure that can be very difficult for the opponent to attack. The Caro-Kann generally results in a closed position which often benefits Black more than White.

2. I feel that the Caro-Kann is more aggressive which generally means that you can gain more control over the center squares which is as everyone knows, is an important task that should be achieved in the opening and in general, all stages of the game.

3. The Caro-Kann allows Black to develop pieces more freely while the French Defense already blocks one of the Bishops from Developing on move 2.

4. The Caro-Kann can be much easier, simpler and less risky than the French Defense - the French Defense can often result in aggressive attacks by pawns if not played almost perfectly, it requires a lot more skill.

5. Now I do not have much experience with the French Defense so please correct me if this is incorrect but White can easily create a pawn chain and lock up a position on your side of the board by playing e5 on the French Defense.

[bitter bolt]

french is for high level players who have the time and patience to memorise theory

caro is the gold standard at any level below the very highest

[twin vigil]

hahahahahahahahahh

[onyx lake]

Everyone here writing uni exam essays meanwhile these two words guarantee a win via forcing your opponent to doze off

||Exchange Variation||

[sonic ridge]

😂

[inner shell]

Alekhine>>

[heavy wagon]

i learnt caro and not french so caro is obviously better

[little beacon]

French

I am playing the french as black

[hollow thicket]

Plays French As White

[misty stone]

I like the pawn structure given by the French but that is just preference and I will use both

[stable hearth]

1.e3 e5 2.d3 d5 3.d4

[vale wind]

Let's just take this. The french blocks in the bishop, the Caro blocks in the knight. Here comes another debate. Which is better to be blocked: the bishop, or the knight. Bishops are theoretically better than knights, but knights should be developed first. Of course we have the Botvinnik-Carls in the Caro (e4 c6 d4 d5 e5 c5) which opens up the knight, but in the french there's really no easy way to open up the bishop since the advance french stops everything unlike the advance Caro. Let's put out another thing. The a8 rook is incredibly well defended thanks to the wall of pawns so now you don't have to worry about the queen being deflected from the rook and that bishop 10,000 miles away taking it. Now I suppose the exchange kinda stops the defense, but the d-pawn is still protected by the queen. So if you ask me, the Caro is better than the french.

[static stratus]

@lyric pecan when there're gonna be results of this theme? Tomorrow? (sorry for the ping)

[sonic ridge]

definitely better to block the knight than bishop objectively

[static stratus]

Yeah

Firstly the knight can go to d7

And also the c-pawn can move again later

[sonic ridge]

true

[vale wind]

theoretically the Bishops are better, yes

but principles say to develop the Knights first. But I guess it can also go to d7

which is a bit more passive

[static stratus]

There're always exceptions to principles and rules

[vale wind]

not on move 4

[sonic ridge]

if u believe bishios r better, then u agree with the fact that its better to block knight instead of bishop

[static stratus]

There're even on move 1

[sonic ridge]

yes there r

[static stratus]

Principles say that you need to control the center
Then why do defenses like the Modern, Owen's, Alekhine's exist?

Or openings like the King's Indian Attack or Nimzo-Larsen

[vale wind]

bishops are long range pieces, which means they can go wherever they want. The knights only have one, maybe 2 places they wanna go to. The bishops can go anywhere. Also that bishop will be pretty important in the endgame and if they play the advance it's pretty hard to get rid of that pawn

[static stratus]

This is true only on an open board

[vale wind]

all those openings control the center through other pieces, not pawns. They still follow opening principles

[static stratus]

Also quality of the pieces matters

[sonic ridge]

so u dint wanna use ur bishop until endgame in that scenario then?? play the game basically a piece down??

[vale wind]

fianchetto is kinda the only good option you have with that bishop

[static stratus]

If the bishop locked inside of the pawn chain of it's own color and the knight enjoys a beautiful outpost in the middle of the board, than it's gonna be exactly the opposite

[sonic ridge]

if u think bishops r better, then youd rather block the knight
if u think knights r better, then u know how capable they r of getting out
either way its objectively better to block the knights 😂

[static stratus]

Principles and rules in chess always have exceptions
You just need to know when to violate them and when not

[static stratus]

I'm not sure that applies to the Alekhine's Defense

[sonic ridge]

😂 😂

[vale wind]

you're probably right lmao

[static stratus]

Or the Modern

[static stratus]

This is one of the hypermodern openings
Where you allow your opponent to have a big center and then attack it

[vale wind]

that is very similar to KID

But you still control the center with your bishop

[static stratus]

You don't control it

Put pressure - maybe

You can control the center with pieces, but that's not it

For example

Nimzo

You're controlling the e4 square with your pieces only

[astral moat]

French

Pros

If white doesn't know theory it may go as Planned

Stable and defensive Position

Pain Aux Choxolats

Cons

French Bishop (Light squared Bishop as Black)

If You Don't Know The Theory as Black you may cause another French Revolution.

Croissant

Caro Kann

Pros

You avoid lines of e4 e5 theory like the Spanish,Scotch Etc and Levy Is Proud Of You

If Played correctly you Will have a Stable Cozy Game

Cons

If You don't know much Theory Levy is upset and engine thinks you are a 500 Elo

Winner?

Both are Good

[vocal plume]

Caro kann fits its name more

cuz French should be long like a baggeute

And it’s like 2 pawn moved in the god dam center

[fast bloom]

Caro kann bc it doesn’t quite block in the bishop (black)

[vocal plume]

screw that bishop we hate simps here

[daring lantern]

French is literally so boring. Black always plays passive and boringly. With the Caro-Kann black is actually trying to fight for the center and it makes for a fun game for both sides and they actually enjoy it unlike the French

That looks like a ChatGPT answer to me

[dry walrus]

yeah I am like ai

Me and my friend typed this together

[daring lantern]

Ahh...

[dry walrus]

wait

I'll respond in another way then

[woeful nexus]

you should play e6 if you have learned giri's french course on chessable

looks like a good course 🙂

[crystal smelt]

caro kann bro!!

[nocturne cedar]

Caro kann Advance

[celest fossil]

carok ann >

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan Who won the diamond membership?

[sonic ridge]

itd be announced in #server-announcements dw

[thin mist]

The problem is when

they said 3 days

[sonic ridge]

well "soon" is the only answer that u can get 😂

[thin mist]

lol

[spice flume]

yeah, because 1 person who's IM likes it the whole world must know how to play it

simple positions is a bad thing, not a good thing.
it makes your moves more predicable, and the caro doesn't lead to very smooth endgames typically

the french defense provides better counter-attack capabilities and undermines white's center pawns

the french defense is much more well founded through history and hundreds of chess theorists have innovated smarter ways to play it and furthered the theory

In the french, black's pawn structure often features pawns on e6 and d5, which can lead to closed or semi-closed positions. this pawn structure creates a solid foundation that limits white's central pawn breaks and provides opportunities for counterplay against White's e4 pawn. in contrast, the caro kann typically features pawns on c6 and d5, which can lead to more open positions with potential asymmetrical pawn structures.

that is the problem

caro kann is too open, which leads to more counterplay opportunities for white to play

[spice flume]

the perception of a chess opening as "boring" or "enjoyable" can be subjective
the french has much more variations to suit your game, and it's probably the players you play against that just play defensively
the french has a huge capability for black to play aggressively

the french may have slow development on queenside, but that is not concerning considering that the caro's pawn structure isn't flexible. im certain magnus can't even draw water from how solid the pawn structure of the caro kann is

[thin mist]

@lyric pecan Do you have any update

?

[echo dawn]

when does this close?

[buoyant delta]

This is the funniest one I’ve heard

[teal surge]

Hmm yeah, let’s see your winrate in the Winawer shall we

[teal surge]

Uh no

[teal surge]

The French is too closed

Personally I think the French (especially Advance and Winawer) is risky

[teal surge]

Caro provides just as much

Really depends on style

[teal surge]

A lot of GMs like it, e.g. Ding Liren

[echo dawn]

he didnt say he played the winawer but sure! :D

[echo dawn]

I love how ding played the french in the WC, and only "played the caro" because his catalan randomly transposed on like move 20

[teal surge]

Look at his game database

[echo dawn]

he's played the same amount of french as caro kann

and e5 more than both combines

[teal surge]

Every master plays e5 the most

[echo dawn]

ok it doesnt matter

[teal surge]

Caro is objectively easier than the French

But has to be a sideline

If I was to choose between the mainlines I would choose French

[raw nebula]

well

/update

[static stratus]

When does this discussion end? Isn't the answer clear?...

[thin mist]

Idk @lyric pecan dont answer ti my dm and even here

[thin mist]

.

[sonic ridge]

it doesnt matter 😂
its based on schedule flexibility for organisers, no point in whining and/or repeatedly asking em

she basically has to go through 1k messages and then pick like 2 out of em

[spice flume]

a2 dude

[echo dawn]

?

[lavish sentinel]

The French defense is pretty good but i think the Caro-Kann defense is better. It is better than french defense in my opninion because it has a better and good pawn structure, providing an amazing structure for your game. It can counter many moves. So bassicaly in Caro-Kann defence the Black's pieces can find good squares to develop if he has a good brain and knoweldge to techniques.. This allows for quick and fast and more piece movement and creates good possibilities and amazing counterplay. The Caro-Kann Defence also allows better development for eg- for the light-squared bishopWith pawns on c6 and d5, the bishop can go to the square of d6, providing more strategic options. In the French Defence, the light-squared bishop can be more challenging to develop effectively due to pawn structures and potential pawn things like u know.The Caro-Kann allows Black to develop pieces more freely while the French Defense already blocks one of the Bishops from Developing on the second move The Caro-Kann defence is the one most preferred by many GMs. It leads to a pawn structure that is better and has less weakness as compared to the French defence. Also for player who like to play agressive the Tartakower (Fantasy) Variation is quite good for White this puts the pawn on f3 strength more and White s center one e4 pawn, but the onlt thing is that it blocks White's knight from developing and weakening the squares around the king. But still its good.You will not have to worry about the pawn's throughout the game. The Caro-Kann is also a better opening, which makes it a good for noobs like me and a better option than the Slican or French Defence. The Caro-Kann Defence has also been played between games of GMS. Many grandmasters, like Karpov and Vishwanathan Anand, have played the Caro-Kann Defence in their games. It is also a popular choice for noobs/beginner to grandmaster. (edited)
You can also see a fantastic game of Caro-Kann Defense ⬇️

In this game between gm kasrpov won/ Garry Kasparov vs Anatoly Karpov - Linares 1992 - Caro-Kann Defense (edited)
[19:36]
Moves-1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5 Ngf6 6. Bc4
e6 7. Qe2 Nb6 8. Bb3 h6 9. N5f3 c5 10. Bf4 Bd6 11. Bg3 Qe7
12. dxc5 Bxc5 13. Ne5 Bd7 14. Ngf3 Nh5 15. O-O-O Nxg3 16. hxg3
O-O-O 17. Rh5 Be8 18. Rxd8+ Kxd8 19. Qd2+ Bd6 20. Nd3 Qc7
21. g4 Kc8 22. g5 Bf8 23. Rh4 Kb8 24. a4 Be7 25. a5 Nd5
26. Kb1 Bd8 27. a6 Qa5 28. Qe2 Nb6 29. axb7 Bxg5 30. Nxg5 Qxg5
31. Rh5 Qf6 32. Ra5 Bc6 33. Nc5 Bxb7 34. Nxb7 Kxb7 35. Qa6+
Kc6 36. Ba4+ Kd6 37. Qd3+ Nd5 38. Qg3+ Qe5 39. Qa3+ Kc7
40. Qc5+ Kd8 41. Rxa7 1-0

[short flower]

Caro-Kann. It sounds way cooler and also feels less meek than the French Defense. I feel more confident to start playing aggressively when my opponent plays the French defense, but the Caro-Kann defense would not encourage me in the same way

[waxen imp]

Where are the results for this?

[teal surge]

#📊〡community-polls

[waxen imp]

I meant to ask who won the diamond membership

[stable hearth]

the caro-kann is currently at 666 votes

its the devil

[steep pier]

Stockfish plays the french

[stable hearth]

yes

and stockfish is good at chess

[spice flume]

Stockfish is the best chess bot/player

so it's undeniable

"caro is better"

a bot that has been trained for 1000s' of hours, had all the time to figure out which one is better, and it decided the french is

[rigid crown]

Exactly

And the caro kann doesn’t control the center

You can’t move your knight to c6

It prevents you from using your e pawn early in the game

And the French can lead to a lot of variations

Advanced variation

Exchange variation

Classical variation

Tarrasch variation

[static stratus]

I don't see how does having a lot of variations make an opening good

[static stratus]

That's literally the point of both the French and the Caro
To control the center with d5 on move 2

And also you often do put your knight on c6 in the Caro

Nothing stops you from playing c5

Because the pawn has done its job on c6 and supported d5

And now it can go to c5 and pressure d4

(I'm talking about the advance variation)

But the idea of c5 break exists in many variations of the Caro

[static stratus]

And about this
I have no idea what are you talking about...

[rigid crown]

Then just play the Sicilian

…

If you are black and you push your pawn two times in an opening that is not a gambit or an open game

And you are black

Then just play the Sicilian instead of the caro kann

And if the opponent plays d4 than don’t push your pawn to c5

It’s simply better for white after they take the pawn

e4 e6 d4 d5 is almost equal, slightly better for white because well, white goes first

e4 c6 d4 d5 best move to take and after you take back well your e pawn is not developed and after they bring the knight out you simply develop your knight but that e pawn that should have been pushed earlier is well… not the best piece to move until later in the opening, even the middle game

And also for anyone here saying Scandinavian is better well after you trade pawns they’ll attack your queen and if you keep it in the center it will keep being attacked so you are forced to move it to d1 and you thought earlier you had a centre advantage. Well, now you don’t.

[static stratus]

Then you'll almost never get d5

It's ok to move the same pawn or piece in the opening twice or even more

I can bring you a million examples

[static stratus]

What position are you talking about?

[static stratus]

1. To take is not the best move. Black has a pretty easy game in the Exchange variation. You just develop your knights, develop your dark-squared bishop to g4, then you play e6 and develop the other bishop and castle.
   The two objectively best responses are e5 (Advance variation) and Nc3 (Classical variation/Main Line)
2. You don't "develop" pawns in chess. You don't have to play e6 as quickly as possible. It's not going anywhere.

[static stratus]

Interesting...
Why exactly?

[rigid crown]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 c5

[rigid crown]

Because they will take your pawn for free and you dont get an advantage

[static stratus]

This is not how you play the Caro...

I said playing c5 later in the game is good

Not immediately

Let me give you an example

[teal surge]

I mean, why do we have to use the e-pawn

Often in the Advance e6 is a move

I don’t really think you know what you’re talking about

[static stratus]

Sorry, forgot about that

But here's an example

Advance variation

If you don't believe me, it's the top engine move

You have to play c5 at some point in the Advance variation

Otherwise your pieces cant really breath

And then you do this

And you may notice it's very similar to the Advance French, except black's bishop on f5 and not in jail
But you paid a tempo for activating your bishop

@rigid crown I hope you got the point

[static stratus]

Day 19287487 of waiting for @lyric pecan to remember about this thread