1. d4 or 1.e4?

[paper oriole]

#EndThisDebate for once. Which one is better~~ and why e4~~? Justify your answer with something creative and we'll select the best ones😄

[keen nymph]

Im a average london player

[minor pond]

e4, i can do Ke2!!

[keen nymph]

nvm. that guy has a better argument

[cosmic fiber]

hi

[half nymph]

e4, i like it better

[cosmic fiber]

So like

[fiery grove]

e4 as a london player

[cosmic fiber]

Both are definitely moves

[fiery grove]

lmao

[wanton orbit]

1.e4 bc after e5 Ke2

[open dove]

Honestly, much more funny tricks and traps than boring d4 d5 positons, e4 on top

[half nymph]

e4 opens the bishop and the queen

[paper oriole]

Also don't use chatgpt we can tell

[dense trail]

e4. you can chechmate in 2

[paper oriole]

before anyone does

lol

[keen nymph]

Vienna

[weary remnant]

i only like d4 when they accept queens gambit

[paper oriole]

vote on poll

[fiery grove]

i love d4 but i love e4 even more, its just u get bored of positional openings. with e4 u can do all types of stuff. vienna, kings gambit, "scholars mate" n others

isnt that good enough

[half nymph]

I only play d4 when I feel like I want to play the blackmar-diemar gambit

F3 as black >>>>>>

[soft grove]

I like d4 because it can directly stop e5, unlike e4 which couldn't stop d5

[main oriole]

e4 because d4 players just don't like getting attacked and studying all kinds of 1.e4 opening with black.
In short, cowards

[paper oriole]

81% e4

[frail matrix]

queen's gambit, best opening ever

[paper oriole]

rip

[frail matrix]

bruh

[half nymph]

E4 because i can play pirc

London System is the best imo

[soft grove]

why play Pirc when you can play King's indian?

[soft grove]

true

[weary remnant]

debatable

[half nymph]

i play both

[dense trail]

also b4 polish opening 🇵🇱

[weary remnant]

i like italian game

[open dove]

why play pirc when you can allow tennison gambit by white with e4 d5 Nf3

[unborn prawn]

Neither c4

[half nymph]

D4 KID and E4 PIRC

Why can't I vote?

[opal ether]

How!

[half nymph]

Black f3 g 4 best opening >>>>>>>

[frail matrix]

i find it so boring at an intermediate level

[half nymph]

Tennison my beloved

[empty pecan]

well you see, e4 is for everyone, the queen blunderers, the mated in 4s, the french, the spanish, the italians, and the 2600s who know 35 moves of theory

[paper oriole]

what do you mean

[open dove]

NOT icmb

[paper oriole]

what does it say

[open dove]

icbm sucks

[paper oriole]

[torn sinew]

d4 because its have extremely deep queens gambit (that i play everytime). You are mostly will receive balanced and huge-abilities gameplay.

[open dove]

it says "c4 player detected"

[half nymph]

I click the vote thingy and it's not popping up for me to choose?

[open dove]

[paper oriole]

theres an ai to tell the likeliness that smth was written by an ai

[fiery grove]

if u play d4, they will play kf6 and then u can do london but they hard counter it with indian game

[half nymph]

friendly fire

[weary remnant]

im also intermediate and its fun ngl imo its easier to attack

[lime stone]

e4 because I play it idk

[open dove]

[hidden lake]

All my homies hate the queens gambit

[half nymph]

I love tennison because it just throws my Scandinavian classmate off-guard ❤️

[paper oriole]

anything more than 80% is out

[open dove]

brother

[short snow]

Because King > Queen so King Pawn > Queen Pawn

[open dove]

i got something

for you

[opal ether]

83% chads

[paper oriole]

chad moment

[solemn forum]

Well I'm quite sure e is better, but d can be great in that it's almost as good, and your oponent is likely to know it less.

[loud crescent]

eh, okay, i still prefer e4 because i don't know what to do after queen's gambit

[ember saffron]

I prefer 1…e5

[half nymph]

I think it’s overrated ngl

[hidden lake]

I see you hit me with the queens pawn i will indian you, im a cherokee by blood

[shell bronze]

e4 since although it only controls 1 central square it makes positions sharper

[half nymph]

I always take the d

[lime stone]

I saw this channel first time

[faint shoal]

queens gambit op

[main oriole]

promoted by certain show

[weary remnant]

unless they accept

[torn sinew]

Oh, i'm just has huge experience on queens gambit

[opal ether]

Vienna my beloved

[hidden lake]

Eat my indian

[lime stone]

I also like d4 too

[half nymph]

Yall losers real alphas play e4 qh5

Kf3 best is better Homies

[paper oriole]

I love e4 but I sincerely think that U2000 you'll get more wins with d4 because ppl dont know how to counter d4 openings

[silk sigil]

e4 because bongcloud

[keen nymph]

based e4 players:

[half nymph]

We all know the bongcloud is one of the best if not the best opening ever made

[hidden lake]

Pfft. Nice one

[weary remnant]

i played d4 in a tournament and lost every game with white

[fiery grove]

1. d4 kf6
2. bf4 e6
   and ur finished atp because of the pawn blocking londons one of the most important square

[gray grotto]

I played 1.d4 for a long while and enjoyed it. However 1.e4 has so much more variety and more fun which is why I only play 1.e4 currently

[main oriole]

englund gambit is the way

[loud crescent]

maybe 1.f3 e5 2.Kf2 is better?

[red shuttle]

I whoud say with e4 you don't have to worry about a lot of vereasons with the first ten moves if you play e4

[opal ether]

E4 best by test

[lime stone]

How much vote for e4? 👀

[loud crescent]

i am one of the victims by 1.d4

[shell bronze]

Does e4 or d4 have more logical positions?

[fiery grove]

d4 positional, e4 theoretical i think

if u mean that

ig

[slow vessel]

i've been using d4 since i started playing chess but since i found out about poziani opening a few weeks ago, i play e4:) now which one should i choose ;-;?

[shell bronze]

The number of possible openings

[haughty token]

e4 is obv better move

[pastel sinew]

E4 cause who even plays d4 except London players💀

[fiery grove]

ik but most people play london

i even do

[gray grotto]

What are logical positions?

[opal ether]

E4

[half nymph]

e4

[fiery grove]

but i switched to e4 cause its more fun and easier

[shell bronze]

Openings

[paper oriole]

nelson i know its you

[slow vessel]

ok=)))

[half nymph]

Deep down we all know e4 will be everyone’s favorite

[gray grotto]

I am confused ngl

[opal ether]

e4 gang rise

[main oriole]

1.d4 is just like a fish bait, play the slowest possible game with no counter attacks

[half nymph]

Carokann >

[paper oriole]

same I lose often

[haughty token]

d4 usually ends in a draw and thats an L

[shell bronze]

Number of openings after 1.e4 or 1.d4

[pastel sinew]

Guys e4 =bongcloud

[thick pasture]

D4 is better. Queens are better than kings

[paper oriole]

guys was everyone able to vote on the poll

[keen nymph]

I prefer e4 because you do play more fun openings

[half nymph]

d4 players are one of the most boring players ever

[paper oriole]

might be bugging out

[gray grotto]

As if you can't play d4 d5 Kd2 lol

[keen nymph]

y

[paper oriole]

[hidden lake]

E4= life

[shell bronze]

But kings are more valuable than queens

[fiery grove]

i did

[main oriole]

ypu can't play without a king

[paper oriole]

noice thanks

[pastel sinew]

That's something else not the bongcloud

[keen nymph]

10/10

[haughty token]

[paper oriole]

diamond only to creative answers who also vote on poll

[paper oriole]

nice

[gray grotto]

1.d4 has no King's Gambit which made me choose 1.e4

[fiery grove]

d4

[opal ether]

Stop the count

[lime stone]

Why anyone didn't said me about this channel ?

[haughty token]

😮

Why auto emoji

Anyways

[paper oriole]

we announced it

[haughty token]

Imma get that dia :D.

[paper oriole]

then send creative answer

[haughty token]

*Plagiarizes answer

[lime stone]

Ah maybe I didn't saw that 😅

[paper oriole]

reminder we have an AI to tell if something was written by an AI

[lime stone]

Only one will get membership?

[thick pasture]

You just capture him if you checkmate him.

[opal ether]

[paper oriole]

depends

[shell bronze]

So AI know eachother?

[thick pasture]

What if we edit what the AI wrote to sound more human?

[haughty token]

*Rewords it until ai doesn't know it's from ai

[thick pasture]

Consider all possibility’s

[opal ether]

That ones pretty bad coded btw

[pastel sinew]

E4 means bongcloud means Hikaru proud student

[paper oriole]

it has “probability” and any high % is out

[haughty token]

Wait can I use a different language so that ai has a harder time

[lime stone]

How much days we have to answer?😅

[thick pasture]

chatgtp has come to destroy us all

[gray grotto]

Maybe I should write a poem

[shell bronze]

The only capture you can make to the king is an illegal move from the opponent's side

[pastel sinew]

What if ai lies

[torn sinew]

Its generates shit at all

[haughty token]

What if I use stockfish to answer it for me

[lime stone]

Yes xD

[main oriole]

what if 1.nf3

[loud crescent]

the only counter i know is just to give back the pawn after taking on c4

[pastel sinew]

If people can lie that d4> so can ai

[opal ether]

I put my 2019 essay in that ai checker and it gave me 85% lmao

[thick pasture]

Chatgtp knows how to play actual chess. It’s scary

[shell bronze]

What if sodium attack

[main oriole]

still better than 1.d4

[keen nymph]

1. d4 is usually way more passive and positional which is kinda boring so people prefer 1. e4, the more open and agressive starting move

[torn sinew]

I'm vote for d4 because of queens gambit, i'm already got tired of repeating e4 e5.

[thick pasture]

We need an option for bird s opening

[pastel sinew]

The Mongolian gigachad defence?

[loud crescent]

c5, maybe

[main oriole]

1.d4 would never be fun in parties

[haughty token]

Ok imma formulate answer brb mah dudes

[shell bronze]

Just wait for them to scandinavian or smth

[opal ether]

C4 > d4

[shell bronze]

e4 is just open asf

[haughty token]

I be making a research paper just for this lol

[main oriole]

c6

[half nymph]

D4 better because after E4 opponent can just play f3 g4 and win the game

[haughty token]

Cya

[pastel sinew]

You cant play kings Gambit without e4

[torn sinew]

Only fifty/fifty plays scandinavian

[loud crescent]

bruh

[shell bronze]

Sicilian?

[torn sinew]

no

this is chess

[torn sinew]

yeah

[main oriole]

you can play the fool's mate if its 1.d4

[paper oriole]

big if true

[shell bronze]

Reverse fool's mate

[pastel sinew]

Have y'all seen the infamous e4 e5 lightning McQueen to c4

[torn sinew]

Fools mate, childs mate is huge insult if you even try to play it

[north spoke]

e4 because Bong cloud ans scholars mate

[torn sinew]

I didnt even tried to play it against anyone.

[open dove]

e4 > d4 cuz gms say that

[torn sinew]

GMs i know do not says it

[loud crescent]

a4/h4/a3/h3/f3 best

[shell bronze]

Bro scholar's mate spammers just don't know what to do if their "victim" doesn't fall for ir

[main oriole]

how often do you see 1.d4 in a pro game

[fiery grove]

e4, more popular, more open, more fun, more traps, more variation, more theoretical, used more by high elo chess, good counter attacks, less chance to draw. what more do yall want to prove that e4 is better

[torn sinew]

Very often.

[open dove]

Majority of GMs prefer e4

[pastel sinew]

Its not pro anymore

[shut night]

d4 is a combination of defense and offense and never gets less attacking chances than e4. e4 is played by beginners so they can cheese and puke oil out of their noses

[thick pasture]

D4 aggresive fun

[keen nymph]

everytime im black and i see 1.d4 i want to resign because i know that london will be what im playing

[thick pasture]

Blackmar diemer and queens gambit are fun

[shut night]

to the people who think d4 is too solid, get kamil plichta's course (d4 for mad men) and see how much fun you have

[torn sinew]

Not a simple grinding

at e4

[fiery grove]

just play kf6 and if they play bf4 then just do e6

[pastel sinew]

D4 is good for black because it allows the Leningrad dutch🦾

[shell bronze]

So you're saying that defense and attack chances are never lower than e4?

[main oriole]

d4 only have queen's gambit and london, no one else play anything other than those

[shut night]

yes

[loud crescent]

e4 is theoretical
maybe you prefer playing creatively?

[shell bronze]

But what about draw chances?

[main oriole]

while 1.e4 have more possibilities

[torn sinew]

Theres a base:
You need to be creative in chess to grow

[shut night]

stonewall, blackmar diemer, english attack, etc

[pastel sinew]

Not always, there are more possibilities

[bitter halo]

and why e4

[open dove]

okok

[thick pasture]

Stonewall is interesting

[fiery grove]

d4 e4

[pastel sinew]

Fax

[shell bronze]

What's stonewall

[main oriole]

you don't see it often

[open dove]

e4 cuz engine gives 0.1 more advantage in comparison to d4 🗿

[bitter halo]

based

[main oriole]

most of them just premove the london

[torn sinew]

referendum inside of referendum

[loud crescent]

yeah i also think that way

[torn sinew]

Cool

[fiery grove]

e5😩

[pastel sinew]

Rip d4 players

[shut night]

because they don't know d4

[open dove]

i basiclaly just refuted their opening

[main oriole]

kid named e5:

[pastel sinew]

I usually have a lot of fun playing black against d4 only because i can play the Dutch

[shut night]

and i know how to refute your refutation

[fiery grove]

yeeeeeeee

[pastel sinew]

You sir ended the war

[torn sinew]

So? Does it changes anything if you not a computer?

[pastel sinew]

Gg

[shut night]

simple traps anyone can avoid

[shell bronze]

Engine says so

[half nymph]

d4 is better. End of debate. Period.

[pastel sinew]

Are you not a computer

[open dove]

No, objectivly e4 is still better

[main oriole]

again people just likes to premove the london

[shell bronze]

So you were playing around with the 0.1+?

[shut night]

d4 is better because it has a higher win-rate in chess.com and lichess databases

[thick pasture]

D4 is better cus y not

[pastel sinew]

E4 is also much more beginner friendly imo

[main oriole]

if everyone play 1.d4, it'll have a lower percentage

[shut night]

then you are a beginner, not one to decide this argument

[pastel sinew]

Lmao I've seen my friends find it much easier to play proper games with e4 is what I meant

[thick pasture]

We need the English gambit. We gambit an English lad to the black pieces

[pastel sinew]

Its also important to consider how welcoming the opening is to new players if the game has to grow

[thick pasture]

Birds is an easy and fun opening for beginners to learn

[pastel sinew]

Its not all about memorising and farting out 15 books of theory

[main oriole]

After it's all just comes down to the average elo people playing 1.e4 and 1.d4

[shut night]

if more people play d4 without understanding, it will be higher

[open dove]

e4 > d4 cuz london isnt a thing in e4 structures

[shut night]

a-hem london a-hem

[shell bronze]

Is the argument about e4 cause more ppl will learn or e4 cause of sharp games n stuff

[shut night]

bishop opening

[pastel sinew]

If you play London you need to quit chess

[shell bronze]

Bc4 real

[open dove]

e4 Bc4 much more play

[shut night]

i play queen's gambit

[main oriole]

this

[thick pasture]

D4 better. E4 too common

[pastel sinew]

e4 is beginner friendly, but can also lead to crazy fun attacks

D4 is draw

[main oriole]

berlin:

[shut night]

who said there is no attack in d4?

[pastel sinew]

E4 players

[thick pasture]

There’s a lot of attack in D4

[pastel sinew]

[main oriole]

nah there aint

[void bone]

🙂

[shut night]

there is literally a line where you sac a knight

[thick pasture]

The Blackmar diemer is goated

[pastel sinew]

There are 15 lines in e4 prolly where you sac a knight

[thin barn]

[thick pasture]

That’s AI

[shut night]

there are more if you are brave enough

[shell bronze]

Bro played chess at landscape mode

[void bone]

Not d4 or e4 but Nf3 =))

[pastel sinew]

d4 only better in 4 player chess

[bitter halo]

btw why is e4 bad in 4pc

[pastel sinew]

No you mean if you've mugged up enough engine lines

[shut night]

then even more because the engine can spot blunders

[thick pasture]

We need a new chess opening to be invented

[shell bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rook-gothamchess-levy-rozamn-levy-rozman-gif-27538319

[main oriole]

1.d4 is too boring, there's literally no attacks until white sets everything up

[thin barn]

I mean, d4 has a lot of potential in the Queen's Gambit or like King's Indian or like East Indian or something, but e4 just has more lines and is more common than d4 (I think), But the best opening move in all of chess is h4

[pastel sinew]

That sounds very unromantic

[shut night]

i agree, i'll call it d/2 4

[thick pasture]

H4 is good

[shell bronze]

Nah it's f3

[pastel sinew]

Bongcloud is our best bet against an engine

[thin barn]

h4 🧢

[main oriole]

1.d4 abort is the best response imo

[shut night]

d4 Kd2

[thick pasture]

What if we make the queens bongcloud opening ?

[pastel sinew]

That's no longer called bongcloud

[thin barn]

koth bro?

[pastel sinew]

You mean move to say move the queen out? Damn is that legal

[final sierra]

e4 is better

[shell bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/minuteman-icbm-troll-we-do-a-little-trolling-rocket-emporium-gif-21936364

[pastel sinew]

Fax

[shell bronze]

Icbm

[thick pasture]

It’s a new thing now. I’ve invented the bongcloud 2.0

[shell bronze]

Wayward king

[pastel sinew]

Guys listen I've never lost a game to magnus carlsen when i played e4

[shut night]

because you have never played magnus carlsen

[shell bronze]

And you never won

[pastel sinew]

So e4>

[final sierra]

if you dont play e4 you cant play the bongcloud clasical variation so e4 wins

[shut night]

f3

[pastel sinew]

Its a joke why take everything literally

[shell bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-sus-chess-play-chess-pawn-gif-20671832

[final sierra]

its not the calsic bongcloud all other bongclouds are just cheap copies

[shut night]

Kf2

[torn sinew]

My explanation of my Pro-D4 opinion:
At D4 you will mostly receive creative positions, at this time E4 has fixed e4 e5 that honestly ruining all fun of chess party. But theres e4 c5 that gives more fun to chess. Theres truth that everyone must know:
You need to be creative to grow at chess.
You may dont play symmetrical opening, they constantly slowing your learning, because grinding first 10 moves and then simply doing something chaotic not making sense.
Then lets see Queens Gambit, very underrated opening that everyone should use, its gives normal, fixed, playable for both players position, so both players can enjoy party and create threats.
Remember, when someone says some dumb thing like "e4 slightly better, computer says", lets remember another chess rule:
You play chess to learn, not to win
(Those who not follow it, using some traps e.c. just dumb people who want to waste their time, teach, become stronger, not a dumber)

[shut night]

tell me this isn't bravery

[pastel sinew]

You can be creative if you play bongcloud

Hikaru approves too

[torn sinew]

Its ruining chess opening

[pastel sinew]

Its our best bet against an engine

To confuse the opponent you must confuse yourself first

[shut night]

d4 is better because trompowsky

can't trompowsky the pirc with e4

[torn sinew]

Exactly you giving very big advantage to enemy, because your opponent will have additional temp.

[pastel sinew]

Ayo whered my e4 gang go

[torn sinew]

As guy who ruined big 5 moves trap in scandinavian defence i say "no"

[thick pasture]

I made a new bongcloud opening. The queen moves to d2

[pastel sinew]

Cap that's an illegal move

[shut night]

qa1 when?

[thick pasture]

D4 then qD2

[keen nymph]

As a german classic music enjoyer i can only love 1. e4 because of the Vienna

[torn sinew]

Engine says

[pastel sinew]

Have you seen the yt short where a guy shows an e4 line that guarantees to win queen in 4 moves

[pastel sinew]

Exactly, the engine doesn't understand because it's confused

[pastel sinew]

.

[keen nymph]

The engine is confused. You are +0.5

[shut night]

stockfish lost against himself while he was playing bongcloud

[final sierra]

here is my argument for e4: generaly d4 can lead into closed position with slow manouvering and boring play it has a lot of options but e4 has more as a previous comment suggested that e4 is not creative, THATS WRONG, e4 has so many options and after e4,e5 you have many openings what to choose from you can go from active italians to slow and manouvering spanish/ruy lopez or go into incredibly tactical and agressive openings like the kings gambit scotch gambit the evans gambit or the siberian gambit overall you have more things to choose from and just more options to experiment with which makes this generaly more fun. As one famous player once said "e4 is best by test"

[pastel sinew]

Exactly

[pastel sinew]

So technically stockfish lost against bongcloud

[keen nymph]

he stood no chance

[pastel sinew]

Auto resign for opponents

[shut night]

slow defense is stonewall and london, mid is blackmar diemer and amazon attack, and there is queen's gambit to be aggressive af

[shut night]

spiel

[final sierra]

are you that agressive with QG

?

[shut night]

literally look at chessable course by Kamil Plichta on d4

[final sierra]

also dont pull a blackmar diemer gambit on me its objectivly bad after d4 d5 dxe4 f3 e5

[thick pasture]

The Amazon attack. We have AMAZON on our side

[thick pasture]

That’s the end of the argument. That’s all we need to settle the dispute. D4 is better

[keen nymph]

bongcloud from amazon

[final sierra]

even if the queens gambit isnt the onyl response black has and there are many ways to play against it

[shut night]

so? they are like blackburne shilling. dubious and very bad position if the target does not fall for it

[torn sinew]

Its cant be

Its a computer

Iron steel that dont know how even to confuse

[thick pasture]

I’m gonna learn the Amazon attack. It’s weird

[torn sinew]

Emotionless

Instead of me

[shut night]

if the computer is wrong about bongcloud, it is also wrong about e4 being better than d4

[final sierra]

@torn sinew when you said d4 is better for improvment i believe for new players open positions are better for improvment. You might argue that positional play is better for begginers and intermidiete players but i think that open positions sharpen your tactics and make you attack your oponent which is very healthy

[final sierra]

it isnt wrong same as it isnt wrong about e4 beeing better than d4

[thick pasture]

Me when my opponent doesn’t play D4

[shut night]

then e4 is better for beginners

not warriors

[pastel sinew]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nIFZXW7reWc?feature=share

E4>>

[torn sinew]

Exactly yes, its a bit very complex to determine D4 or E4 better, but as Intermediate (1400) player i rather play d4 and feeling much more better when i play d4, always receiving some traps, some interesting tactics to realise

[shut night]

this is e4 for chatgpt

[thick pasture]

D4 is more fun. The old benoni, benko gambit, black knights tango

[pastel sinew]

Ai gonna overtake us all

[mystic girder]

e4>

[keen nymph]

told u.
as a 800 elo player playing in 800 elo, this is my favourite way to win

1. e4 on top

[thick pasture]

Bloomfield gambit, there’s so many options

[mystic girder]

But what if i come with englund

[final sierra]

e4 is still amazing even for great players super Gms play it the same as d4 but for the matter of fact there are about 70% of players below 1200

[shut night]

that explains why more than 70% of people here are voting for e4

no wonder

[torn sinew]

Bongcloud making no sense, Queens gambit better.

[shut night]

but this is about whether e4 or d4 is better, not player pereferences

[torn sinew]

Best gambit ever i think

[thick pasture]

E4 has my favorite openings for black and white. The evans gambit

[final sierra]

whats ur rating?

[hidden lake]

Your opinion just became invalid

[shut night]

unrated

[final sierra]

if its not player preferences ask the computer lol

[mystic girder]

e4 is just better... i like the Vienna Gambit, i always get a good position

[torn sinew]

Um?

[shut night]

**underrated

[shut night]

then play flipped vienna, it's the same thing

[hidden lake]

Lol, anyways, what is d4 good for other than queens gambit, which btw sucks and ill just indian you

[gray fable]

Oh wow I thought there would be more London weebs but so far it's a blowout

[shut night]

trompowsky, ever heard of it?

[final sierra]

i could also say i am underrated

[torn sinew]

Ok, I'll still play c4.

[hidden lake]

Aight fair enough, trompowski pree decent ngl

[gray fable]

Réti players are crying

[shut night]

in the meantime, i'll find a way to play the trompowsky as black

[gray fable]

I haven't studied enough d4 openings, but damn, I love the trompowsky

[final sierra]

@shut night so what argument do you have when the engine prefers e4?

[hidden lake]

Im a fan of the scotch and its varients, tbf it puts the option of whether or not the game will be boring or fun on black, but its effective

[turbid pebble]

I personally prefer d4 because I hate playing against the Sicilian and it has stuck to me since I started playing chess

[torn sinew]

1. Be kind to each other.
   Please keep derogatory words/phrases, insults, threats, personal attacks (including attacks on people not in the discord, other streamers, or other professional chess players), racism, sexism, bigotry and any other forms of discrimination out of here. This includes Direct Messages to fellow server members.

Remember that this is an open and public forum with people of all ages and backgrounds from all over the world, be respectful!

[thick pasture]

ok

[torn sinew]

alr

[hidden lake]

You made a joke... i think.. anyways, its whatever to me, have a goodun

[torn sinew]

Engines suck at openings

Use brain

Or database of parties

books

everything else but not a engine (Only if you have supercomputer then maybe-)

[hidden lake]

Not on ridiculously high depth, and it still plays e4 to garuntee it dont lose

Its been used on server farms and huge rigs, and supercomputers like e4

[torn sinew]

You play chess to learn, not to win

[final sierra]

go look up and find my message abt this

[torn sinew]

?

This?

[final sierra]

yes

[hidden lake]

You stated that the question wasnt what do you prefer, you said it was "whats the best"

[shut night]

d4 is more versatile and doesn't have to be defense

[hidden lake]

But i straight prefer e4

[shut night]

and it can be crazy aggressive if you want it to be

heck, even the hippo can be aggressive if you want it to be

[torn sinew]

when you said d4 is better for improvment

You play chess to learn, not to win
Its another sentences

[torn sinew]

Being honest, you're right at this point

[hidden lake]

Thanks, that felt good

Never had someone on discord do that, thanks for being mature❤️

[torn sinew]

❤️

I've changed my mind by the way, at point of question e4 really better.

There's no more discussions for some reasons, maybe everyone agreed.

[shut night]

i still think d4 is better, i just got tired of discussing

[lost kettle]

d4>>

[reef vale]

e3 then King e2

ive solved the argument

[haughty token]

My research paper be looking scrumptious

[errant jasper]

I like e4 better because, simply, there are more beginner players playing chess. D4 is most definitely better at the higher levels, leading to slow, classical games. You need a lot of chess knowledge to know what to do in these positions: Something beginners don't have. e4 is a lot more aggressive and leads to faster paced games, along with tactic filled positions. These are great for beginners to analyze and see what they need to work on. d4 openings can also tend to be extremely boring, and beginners are not here for the game: they're here for the SPORT. e4 is so much more exciting, and plus, it's got the bongcloud! And let's be real here, ke2>>>>kd2. If you want me to talk experts, e4 can lead to c5 which has millions of variations, making it suitable for experts.

[final sierra]

exactly what i tried to say nicly said

[paper rivet]

e4 because millions of games have been won by white after doing Qh5 and Bc4 and Qxe7#

[half nymph]

d4 because i'm used to the queen's gambit. A counter argument would be e4 making th bongcloud possible

[open dove]

wrong

[open dove]

hello, 2.2k here, noone plays d4

[paper oriole]

dont forget to vote on the thingy

only counts if you vote on the thingy

also some of yall are convincing me of the advantages of d4 ngl

[raven fulcrum]

d4 is statistically best. The point is to not only win, but minimize Black's chances of winning

it's more drawish, but with a comparable winrate for white vs e4

[shut night]

you can brainlessly play the london in d4 and you can be aggressive in d4 with the queen's gambit and/or trompowsky

[spring shore]

I think both are way too common, especially at a 2000+ level, meaning too many people have strong prep against them. 1. c4 is the way of the future

[shut night]

d4 is better as this thread name marks e4 as a mistake

[shut night]

not to be on the e4 side, but e4 makes the queen more active

but who cares about the queen when you have the bishop(s)?

[short ember]

So, 1.e4 or 1.d4?

I think both of those moves are great (if you follow them up correctly, of course 🙂), but of course they have some major differences.

1.e4. This move opens up two light-squared diagonals (d1-h5 and f1-a6) and allows white to develop their light-squared bishop and get their queen out if necessary. Because of that, this move is considered more aggressive than 1.d4. The major drawbacks of this move, in my opinion, are:

1. This pawn is undefended and sometimes white will have to spend an extra tempo on defending it (example: in the Italian Game white usually prepares the d4 pawn-break supported by c3, but black can attack the e4 pawn with Nf6 once c3 is on the board and make white spend another tempo by playing d3 instead of going d4 in one go.)
2. The a7-g1 diagonal is weakened and the f2 pawn becomes more vulnerable and can get under pressure of the bishop from c5.

1.d4. This move is considered more positional. In my opinion the main plus of this opening is that the central pawn is defended and white usually doesn't have to spend an extra tempo on defending it, unlike 1.e4. The other benefit of 1.d4 openings is that white can almost always increase the center control by pushing the c-pawn (even if it's undefended and can be captured by black's pawn, because white is most likely to regain it in the future). Of course 1.d4 openings also have some drawbacks:

1. The a5-e1 diagonal to the king is open and in some position there might be tactics associated with this (for example, Qa5+ winning the bishop on b5).
2. d4 openings are usually very transpositional. This means that sometimes you can get "move-ordered" into a line (or even opening) that you don't play.

Conclusion: as a d4 player myself I cannot say that 1.d4 is bad. But also I cannot say that it's better than 1.e4. Both of those moves are objectively equally good, but if I have to choose one - 1.e4 is my answer.

[lost kettle]

because d4 is better

the space we control is greater with 1.d4 by playing 1.d4 followed by c2 c4, the white player will has four squares of the opponents half and three in the center of the board and by playing 1.e4 on the other hand will only help the player control two squares of the opponents side and only one in the center

pawn activity is also greater in 1.d4 by playing 1.d4 we activate 2 pieces our bishop and queen which gains access and control to the center and if we play 1.e4 we activate only 1 bishop on f1

when seeing the previous results we can see that 1.d4 is more offensive as it reduces the chances of defeat and offers more possibilities of victory the number of draws resulting from this move is also significantly smaller compared to 1.e4 and who doesnt likes to win

by playing 1.d4 we are able to control both d4 with the queen and e5 with the pawn while playing 1.e4 will only help us control d5 after playing 1.d4 the black player cannot directly threaten the pawn and the white player can develop his pieces and strategy slowly and without risk and thus it also improves the stability of the center

i know that i am defending 1.d4 but i prefer 1.e4 due to the familiar positions it produces
but when it comes to which is better its simply 1.d4

[errant jasper]

which are only ideal if black respons with either d4 or nf6

[errant jasper]

1. even if its greater your opponent can control equal squares, just like 1. e4
   pawn activity is not greater you activate your bishop and your queen in e4 too
   d4 is not more offensive it's more boring, i thought that was obvious
   playing 1.e4 you cant threaten the pawn much either, it encourages development of your knights to defend the pawn

[lost kettle]

boring maybe but the results are more favorable in 1.d4 as it is more solid

[errant jasper]

1. e4 is more aggressive- and the reason 1. e4 and 1. d4 are played equally at grandmaster levels is sometimes you need to be aggressive, sometimes, solid

[lost kettle]

and true we can activate our bishop and queen in 1.e4 too but 1.d4 achieves it much faster resulting in a solid position

[errant jasper]

doesnt a simple bishop trade in d4 mess up your pawns

[lost kettle]

equal squares true but reinforcements for the central square is much better in 1.d4

[lost kettle]

what

[errant jasper]

yea but it takes a little bit longer to develop your b knight in d4 because in d4 positions u want to leave the c4 square open

[errant jasper]

no im just thinking about london ignore that comment

[lost kettle]

agreed but leaving the c4 square open can facilitate the development of your pieces for example, if you plan to develop your knight to c3 leaving the c4 square open allows the knight to move to b1 and then to c3 without obstruction similarly if you plan to develop your bishop to b2 leaving the c4 square open allows the bishop to be developed to a more active square without blocking the c pawn

[errant jasper]

no by open i mean u want to be able to easily push the pawn to c4 when required

is that what u were referring to

[lost kettle]

i am sorry i cant get what you are trying to say

can you please elaborate

[graceful wolf]

1.e4 to castle, 1.d4 for hassle

[solemn forum]

Btw, congrats to anyone who wanna use the 'stronger at low levels' argument. Unlike with bishop and knight, we can't really say that one is better at the absolute theoretical top level, since presumably, both of these openings are a forced draw.

Personally, I think the super GM level is what should count then, but I don't really have a justification for where to draw the line, so if one or the other is better at 1 elo, go for it.

[gray grotto]

Both are fine answers as long as you don't play 1.c4

[lost kettle]

c4 supremacy 🙌

[pastel sinew]

why is this debate still going on, i thought it was already proven that e4> d4

[indigo siren]

queens gambit is cool and i wanna be original ~~e4 is better ~~

[short ember]

Yeah, play 1.g4

[gray grotto]

[rustic oyster]

D4 better unless they play London

[cold steeple]

I like 1.e4, because I play those openings

[half nymph]

E4 cause you get to play the scotch

[fathom kernel]

.

I am not writing alot this time

[drowsy moss]

E4 Activates The Queen And The Bishop While D4 Only Activates the Bishop, E4 Activates the piece more 🤓🤓

[lime stone]

I choose e4 because when I was new this was my first move I played I also like it now too .

e4 control d5 and f4 square. e4 open a way for Queen and bishop We can play lot of opening with e4 like Ruy lòpez, king Gambit, center game, Scandinavian defense, French defense, Caro-kann defense, Duras Gambit, Owen defense, Modern Defense, Alekhine Defense, Nimzowisch Defense, George Defense, Barnes Defense , Bongcloud for fun and there is a lot of openings.

e4 played by million of people time to time. Bobby fisher used to play Ruy lòpez lot of times and other GM use to e4 today too
e4 is a good opening for beginners in chess and can be played at any level ! e4 is like best friend of king! @paper oriole done 😅

I know it's still not a good answer but still xD

[thin barn]

1. a3

[lost kettle]

i like 1.e4 too but 1.d4. 2.Nc3 3.Bf4 is just better

[lime stone]

Actually I like all openings : )

[lost kettle]

[lapis dawn]

1. d4 Nf3

[solar cave]

Personally, I believe that 1.e4 is the best move, it presents for many great openings such as the Caro-Kann Defense, Sicilian Defense, Italian Game and Giuoco Piano game. However, 1.d4 is also a great move because of one of my favourite openings, the Queen's Pawn Opening - Accelerated London System. Another excellent opening is the Queen's Gambit, but back to 1.e4. e4 is good because it instantly opens up your light squared bishop, which is a crucial attacker in lategame.

[haughty token]

I just finished chapter 1 of the paper, even more scrumptious than before

[hoary trail]

Just saying, a4 is the best first move, then it's e4

[upper patrol]

My e4 argument:
(I play e4 I am qualified for this)
First, it's a lot simpler for lower rated players. For example, you could go for the scholar's mate.
Second, there are fewer 'setups' against it, as it's more agressive. Also, if you memorize responses to a few things, like French, Caro, e5, Pirc, and Sicilian, you're good. In d4 they can play nf6 and then you gotta worry about Nimzo, Bogo, KID, QID, QGD, QGA, etc.

[mild plinth]

king's pawn is the way to go, dont question that, and just listen to the wisdom, thats all i hv to say

now go and hv a usual day

[lost kettle]

1.d4 2.Nc3 3.Bf4

[short ember]

1. d4 2. Bh6

[mild plinth]

The fact that I've had that in many games 😂😂, with both d4 and e4, sees a knight, takes the knight

[rustic oyster]

Agreed

[native cove]

E4 best by test

[lost kettle]

no by test it is 1.d4

[compact path]

I would have said 1.e4 if 1...c5 didn't exist

the sicilian alone is enough of a deterrence to not play e4

[jade osprey]

E4 because it has no attacking potential

[gray grotto]

You just have to find a weapon which you like against it so that Sicilian games are also fun for you

[mild plinth]

yeah

tbh id love to play more against sicilian cause i play it, but unfortuntely i rarely find someone playing sicilian, and even then there r transpositions

[half nymph]

d4 by far is the better one

[half nymph]

https://youtu.be/5eTcm-kZcz0
He said it, can't disagree with it now

[haughty token]

When's the deadline of this

[jovial swallow]

Nothing I just like e4 heh

[tidal fern]

e4 cause e is a funnier letter than d

[lapis dawn]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4

[nocturne radish]

I only learnt e4 openings

[median shale]

e4 cuz it just sounds better

[spring charm]

e4

[lucid ledge]

d4 cuz i wanna be different

[cold steeple]

Average chess person trying to be special

[unkempt bison]

Some prefer d4, while others go with c4,
But e4 has a charm that can't be ignored.
The center square, it claims with pride,
And forces black to choose a side.

With pawns and pieces at its command,
White's position gets becomes more grand.
The king's bishop gets free and the queen gets ready to roam,
Black's pieces now seem trapped at home.

The e4 opening, a classic choice,
One that many grandmasters choose.
It sets the stage for a brilliant fight,
And can lead to victory with all its might.

So whether you're a noob or a pro,
Consider e4, and watch your game grow.
It may not be the only move, it's true,
But with e4, you can't go wrong, it's tried and true.
a poem bec want to be different.

[mild plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/its-beautiful-gif-holy-moly-wow-beautiful-dear-god-its-beautiful-beautiful-gif-26044895

[haughty token]

Very sad I don't have enough time to finish my research paper for this cuz of exams

[lapis dawn]

Tromp attack

but KIng's Gambit op (for me)

[lucid ledge]

not me playing e4 every game tho xd

[half nymph]

i like the part where magnus said "uhhhh"

[pine shard]

e4 best by test

[shell bronze]

Lord faquad

[nocturne radish]

same

[nocturne radish]

I play d4 sometimes for the Queen's Gambit

I didn't actually even watch The Queen's Gambit (Show)

[solar cave]

that wasnt written by chatgpt

[sly veldt]

I vote d4 because although it may take longer to achieve some decent action (and maybe decent development), it leads to interesting positional and tactical play

[wraith swift]

I actually dont know, can someone explain why d4 is better?

[mild plinth]

nope

[wraith swift]

Lol why not

[mild plinth]

Why do u want me to explain a statement that isn't even true 😂

Btw did u figure it out?😂😂😂😂

[wraith swift]

Ohh I said d4 cause its winning, then explain whh e4 is better pls I really dont know what to say between d4 and e4

[wraith swift]

No bro like how do 3 numbers define a letter

[mild plinth]

Someone linked a magnus video, believe him 😂

E4 just opens more options imo

[wraith swift]

Both open same options but in different sides

[mild plinth]

Well not really, kings pawn opens bishop and queen, queens pawn opens a bishop

So faster development options equals more options and fun in general

[wraith swift]

Ohh ure right

And why do ppl say d4?

[mild plinth]

They r London players 😂😂

[wraith swift]

LOL

[lapis dawn]

I (a d4 opener) dont play london opening, i mostly tromposky attack

edit: e4, only scholar mate

[vernal hull]

Because d4 needs more chess theory and studying and can’t checkmate immediately while e4 is just like the game will just start whenever you want. So e4 is better

[half nymph]

E4 can be met with ALOT of defences like scillian,French,e5,Caro can,pirc,Scandinavian,modern,alkaline,nimzowitch.
And most of them has TON of theory and u need to know what do u have to do against every and each one if u are high rated,
In the other hand if u play d4 there is only 2/3 moves u will mostly receive which is nf6 and d5 and its so good for new players and very solid

[rapid trench]

Yeah but that's not point
Guy is saying d4 needs more theory not that it has more theory

[paper oriole]

ye