Knights vs Bishops

[finite creek]

whos/whats lb?

[primal plume]

@hexed summit (sorry for pin)

[hexed summit]

What's up what can I help you with

[primal plume]

Oh no they were asking who you were

[hexed summit]

Ahh okay (:

[finite creek]

😂

[fervent sequoia]

I am team knights though

[brazen steeple]

Alr we change it

Bishops>knights
Like
Lb>scipio

[finite creek]

@hexed summit r u team bishop tho?

[brazen steeple]

If no il change it again

[hexed summit]

Man stop lol

[fervent sequoia]

💀

[finite creek]

change it to what? 😂

__>lb&scipio??

[brazen steeple]

If lb says no
Then
Lb<literally any mod

[finite creek]

😂

[brazen steeple]

Ok what was that

[hexed summit]

Keep this thread clean NK

[brazen steeple]

You vanished

[teal halo]

Congrats knights, you've gained 0.1% per day since I last checked in! If this keeps going you'll have won in less than a hundred days.

[bronze yew]

Meanwhile bishops haven't gained anything

[bronze yew]

A bishop supporter is insulting you, I think you should ban everyone who choose bishops

[next tulip]

LES GO

[teal halo]

I mean, no. I'm quite sure bishops have gained more votes than nights, it's just the percentage that is evening out a bit.

[ruby kelp]

it depends upon the game coz if you have open board bishop is alot better than knight as it controls more squares

[brazen steeple]

Bishops> knights

[bronze yew]

Now their harassing me help

[obsidian mauve]

I ain't readin allat

[bronze yew]

But if it evening out then that means knights are getting more votes right now

[brazen steeple]

Bishop's controls more squares
Case closed

[bronze yew]

ChatGPT much

[bronze yew]

Knights can go to both colors Case Closed

[obsidian mauve]

Bishops can only go to 32 squares while knights can go to all 64

Case closed

[bronze yew]

Yay Knights win

[obsidian mauve]

Ninja kiwi

[brazen steeple]

Na at one time bishop sees all the board but the knight only sees 6

Aio cat boy you shut

[brazen steeple]

Knights are less useful in an endgame case closed

[obsidian mauve]

The knight can see 8 squares not 6

[bronze yew]

A single bishop can never see the whole board

[brazen steeple]

Whatever same thing

[bronze yew]

no nerd

[brazen steeple]

Bru

[bronze yew]

go learn math then come back

[brazen steeple]

Didn't you just call me a nerd?

[bronze yew]

your trying to act like a nerd but cant do math

[brazen steeple]

Bruu why would I but math i do math 2+2 - 22

[bronze yew]

huh I guess you can do math

[brazen steeple]

I told you

[bronze yew]

but you cant count

[brazen steeple]

Eh a knight controls 8 square on an outpost

And knights can only win against bishops when placed on an outpost

bru

[bronze yew]

bishops are just pawns in closed positions

[brazen steeple]

Knights are just a puppet in an opened position

[bronze yew]

why you skull reacting yourself

exactly

[bronze yew]

Still better than a pawn in a closed position

[brazen steeple]

I wrote anything i was trying to do something but it didn't work

[bronze yew]

-300iq moment

[brazen steeple]

Na i ain't letting your knight move in an opened position

[bronze yew]

wait

why are we even arguing

[brazen steeple]

I am waiting

Ya bishops won already

[bronze yew]

the mods are never gonna make a choice at this rate

[brazen steeple]

Bishops won tho so
CASE CLOSED

[bronze yew]

The mods hate honesty ig

[brazen steeple]

Idk bishops won because PPL voted for them

[teal halo]

Ok, lets simplify the numbers so you might get the example.

1:4 20%:80%
2:6 25%:75%

Even if the right option gained more points, they lost percentage.

[finite creek]

if u dont hv a lead of atleast 100 people, it means u did not win the arguement

and if u hv to explain why knight is bad in ur opinion more than the person sayiong bishop is bad has to, u r kinda losing

[teal halo]

The fact that I could write a paper on the bishops superiority doesn't mean a paper is required to understand it.

A shorter explenation might be: "Speed!!!" Which, if that is too much, could be shortened further to: ">>>"

[next tulip]

I did, and hes totally right, thats why horses are better

[next tulip]

controls squares of only one type of color square diagonally

[next tulip]

no, theyre actually better, what is u have a black bishop versus 3 white pawns, ure dead, while with a horsey u have more chance because u can switch colors

[next tulip]

cuz they say what stockfish says

[obsidian mauve]

I know that knights are better

[next tulip]

Good

Ik this doesnt count but im bored of ppl saying bishop is better

KNIGHTS ARE SO FUN TO USE, bishops are really boring

[finite creek]

the fact that bishop has "hop" in it, but it cant really do so

[next tulip]

Damn ure right

Even the bishop tried to be a knight cause he knew the knight was better

He tried to hop like horsey

[finite creek]

exactly

[next tulip]

Also guys, its a lot easier for ur opponent to see where the bishop can go next, but when ur opponent moves the knight close to the king or a valuable piece, they take more time looking because the knight is far more dangerous and u might miss a move that the horsey could do and lose

Also knights are better in atomic

In atomic knights are very dangerous explosive horseys

[finite creek]

the trojan horse 🐴

[next tulip]

Bro, without hop, theyre bish..

[finite creek]

i shouldnt hv read that msg while eating 😂

[brazen steeple]

Ngl no point in arguing we all are doing this for a diamond membership 💀

[finite creek]

when u hv no comeback 😂

[next tulip]

Not me, idga* about diamond, im just here to prove my point

Like guys

Cmon

[brazen steeple]

Prove point?

[next tulip]

Who looks more badass

Who looks more dangerous and menacing

[brazen steeple]

That's a thing i can agree on
Knights are cool

[next tulip]

#1083395277009981531 message

[next tulip]

Then why are u saying bishops are better lmao

[brazen steeple]

Being cool and being useful is 2 different things

[next tulip]

So in a battle u think guy on the right is more useful than the guy on the left?

[brazen steeple]

Yes

[next tulip]

Bruh, like nah

I dont believe u

[brazen steeple]

Ok wait a min

Read this also the thing i pinged

[next tulip]

#1083395277009981531 message

Also bro stop lying to urself

The guys on the left seem mlre useful than the ones on the right?

No lmao

The own name says it

Bishop

Knight

Knight better

[brazen steeple]

That's a closed position BRO

[next tulip]

Knight should be 3.5

[brazen steeple]

Bro you are judging things by their appearance and names?

[brazen steeple]

Bruuuuu

[brazen steeple]

No bishops should be bishops are useful in more positions

Ima head out now

[next tulip]

No I already sent u my entire message

[brazen steeple]

Cya it's late night here

[next tulip]

No wait look

[brazen steeple]

Ok

[next tulip]

Thats open

Knights destroying there

[brazen steeple]

I told you there are some exceptions

It's a closed position but blacks bishops is better

There are many pawns here still the bishop is dominating

[next tulip]

Kf1

Ke3

Knight is winning

[brazen steeple]

?

What's kf1

Bro

[next tulip]

Knight to f1

But no

That actually sucks

Lemme see

[brazen steeple]

Bruu

[next tulip]

Og wair

Its with n

Not k

Nf1

Nf3

Anyway

Lemme see

[brazen steeple]

[next tulip]

U know there the bishop aint dominating

While he takes a pawn

No other pawns can move

[brazen steeple]

Bro it's superior to the knight

[next tulip]

U can just make ur way from Ng3 to Nb3 and take a pawn or at least get to the other side and win with knight, there the bishop cant take any other pawn other than that one

Or actually

Nf5 and boom

[brazen steeple]

Not that easy

[next tulip]

Ok yea in that case blacks winning

But thats a very special position

[brazen steeple]

Ya so there are some rare positions

[brazen steeple]

Totally and the position you send?

[next tulip]

And because of those rare positions bishop is better?

[next tulip]

Pretty common, endgame with 3 pawns

[brazen steeple]

Yep

[next tulip]

But Nf5

Takes u to the other side

[brazen steeple]

I don't think so

Ngl a knight is only and only better than a bishop in an outpost and as gm said- if you don't let the knight jump around it's useless

As a opened position knight is useless

[next tulip]

Searched pawn endgames

[brazen steeple]

I don't see the knights and the bishops

[brazen steeple]

Also buddy opening a position is easy but locking down one is not that easy

[next tulip]

Oh no these are pawn endgames lemme search for bishop and knight endgames

[brazen steeple]

Go ahead

Also it should be wining for the knight

And if you are gona search
BISHOPS KNIGHTS ENDGAMES WHERE KNIGHTS ARE BETTER
you are a bozo

[next tulip]

Nah this was the search

[brazen steeple]

Bruu

[next tulip]

There are 2 to 4 pawns

[brazen steeple]

Ye and?

I don't think it's better anyways ima go it's 11:15 pm here so ya gn

[next tulip]

#1083395277009981531 message

[next tulip]

Gn

[strong rampart]

I will refuse to choose between them because they are both good in their own scenarios. In pawn endgames, a bishop is generally better due to it's long range, but a knight is better when all the pawns are on one side because it can cover both light and dark squares. In the middlegame, bishops are better on an open board, and knights are better on a closed board.

[bronze yew]

This is the correct answer

[fervent sequoia]

I was expecting "Both are shit. I will choose the rook" ngl

[bronze yew]

nah the pawn is the best piece

[finite creek]

well now the king is left to be chosen, where r people whod not castle run the king to the center of the board by middlegame to fight 😂

[bronze yew]

bongcloud

[agile saffron]

All three are shit.
I will choose the queen.

[next tulip]

Yes but because I have to choose between one well I choose knight

[bronze yew]

Even better

[finite creek]

she gonna be real mad cause of all the work u made her do
and thats the best case scenario

[finite creek]

bongcloud isnt really running to thecenter tho

[fervent sequoia]

One sad horsey 🐴

[gloomy peak]

[kindred gale]

Knights can be better in closed positions but in more open positions or with less pieces, bishops are usually better

[brazen steeple]

[brazen steeple]

PPL who say Knights are better than bishops in endgame

[amber musk]

It's probably too late, but anyway

First, culturally, the Knight is way more representative of the chess game across countries and history. Indeed, whereas the Bishop has been added to chess around the 13th century, the Knight was already in the oldest version of chess we know: The Chatrang (which is dated around 670 AD). Another example is the Chinese version of chess: The Xiangqi. Indeed, in this version the Bishop is replaced by the elephant when the Knight I still there. In fact, representing the Bishop as an ecclesiastic figure may be discriminatory for non-Catholic people.

Moreover, the Knight is the only piece in traditional chess with unique movements, therefore, they don’t need protections to attack strong pieces like Queens because it makes them difficult to target. Furthermore, Knights a have a strong ability to fork piece, which makes it one of strongest piece at the beginner level. On their side, Bishop are just weak versions of Queens and cannot be very useful against them. Also, the Knight can also jump over other pieces, like no other piece, that makes it a strategic weapon in closed positions where all other pieces failed to target something.

Then, they're just pure originality by their movements but also by their design. In fact, it's the most sophisticated piece to make in a Championship chess set, therefore, their manufacture is based on a traditional know-how.

To conclude, all parts of the Knight’s characteristics (History, movements, strategical strongness and design) make the Knight a better piece than the Bishop, and maybe, the better piece of chess.

[obsidian mauve]

I ain't readin allat

But I'm happy for you tho

Or sorry that happened

[teal halo]

I mean, bishops do exist outside catholicism, and even though they aren't in completely different religions, I think both king and queen, being monarchy, or anything being called a pawn, is arguably worse. Also, the term knight is also obviously European, chaturanga had a horse.

Only piece with unique moveset? No. However, it is true that no other piece moves like the knight. That doesn't automaticly make it usefull for reasons we'll get to.

Knights are good at forking, but in turn they have no way to pin.

Bishops may be a weaker version of the queen, but that doesn't mean anything when the queen is the strongest piece. It can't attack the queen withouth defence and pinning, but in turn, it also halves the directions from which the queen can attack it back.

For every possition where the knight is the only piece with freedom of movement, there is one where the knight is the one that's stuck. It can be a strenght that opening just one square allows either queen and bishop, or queen and rook a way through.

[finite creek]

💯💯

[amber musk]

The Knight is also called the Horse all over the world (including in Europe). In fact, the Knight and the Horse are exactly the same piece, when the Bishop only has the elephant that looks like him (They are totally different).

Oh maybe I missed something, can you tell me the name of even one other piece with unique moveset in traditional chess?

Pinning is a more common ability, Rook and Queen can also pin

I agree with you, once they're protected Bishop can counter attack, but bishop can't protect themselves (Knights can btw), so more material is needed
That's pretty unfair to compare a protected Bishop to an unprotected Knight

Finally, I would say that bishops, in opening, have a major problem
Where both Knights can try to develop themselves and get active, in many positions like in the French defense, there is one Bishop which is pretty bad and difficult to develop, therefore Knight can be more versatile

[finite creek]

the fact that u r using a position where there is a knight-bishop imbalance between the players for the example 😂

[fervent sequoia]

Chess.com posted this on YouTube. Probably is the daily puzzle of today

[finite creek]

also this position shouldnt be allowed by the players 😂

[teal halo]

Well, every piece has a unique moveset, it is just the individual moves that overlap. Unique moves include en passant, castleing, and promoting. Admittedly, non of these are done by the bishop.

Rook and queen can also fork.

Well, yeah, bishops need protection to pin queen, that is true, but there are still other situations where it doesn't need it. Knights are arguably even more defense dependent. This wouldn't even be a discussion if knight with an outpost wasn't a thing.

The worse knight is indeed better than the worse bishop in openings, however, if you start with either of the center pawns, as soon as you do, your strong bishop is better than either knight.

Even on the theoretical side, the knights opening strength isn't enough to make them more valuable. Evaluate the start position where one side is missing knights and the other is missing bishops, and the side that has bishops is better even that early, about half a pawn if they are black, or about a full pawn if they're white.

[amber musk]

Oh, right I forgot about "conditional" moves, you're right

However, I'm sorry but I don't see how a rook can fork, maybe you were talking about a skewer?

Yeah, that's true, sometimes there is good Bishop sacrifice, like when you pin the Queen with the Bishop and if it's taken by the Queen you can fork with a Knight
In fact, pieces are made to play together so compare two pieces alone is not very constructive

Yes, but does it makes two knight weaker than both weak and strong bishop, I don't think so

Actually, an AI, AlphaZero, has rated the bishop a bit higher than the knight on average. However, the protocol you used can be discussed
As I said before Knight are better compared to other pieces mostly in closed position, and removing pieces from the board let the game tend more easily towards an open position

However, I admit that the main reason why I prefer the Knight is because it's more representative of chess across the world and the ages
Strategically, in my opinion, both are almost equal

[amber musk]

There are no good or bad pieces, just good and bad players

[primal plume]

Fr, started a game with material odds down 2 rooks, won anyways

[teal halo]

Maybe a different term is used, but I meant a scenario where the rook is between two pieces.

[amber musk]

Oh yes that's a fork but usually you fork poor pieces like pawns because the rook is more developed in the endgame
However, a rook can pin in the middle game with open files

[amber musk]

Exactly
And well played btw

[soft current]

Fork you beach

Lol

[austere shadow]

f||or||k you

[tiny venture]

Kasparov

Likes early game knight and mid-late game bishop

[wanton salmon]

when does this end

[slender haven]

ig it has ended

[next tulip]

It hasnt u can still vote

Even if it ends everyone knows the knights better right guys

[finite creek]

exactly

[slender haven]

nope it has ended the winners were announced in #server-announcements

[tropic crater]

Bishop is better because it covers more squares

[fluid garden]

bishops can't do knight forks

[earnest ore]

As Hikaru would put it, the double op combo is usually better than deez knights, unless deez knights can coordinate and the double op combo is stuck behind pawns. Bishops better in endgames and open positions, Knights better in closed position. Ultimately, my vote goes to the bishops.

[solar tapir]

Bishop > Knight because it is far more maneuverable in most positions, for eg a knight needs to make several moves to rotate to attack a square, whereas a bishop can just attack it immediately. A bishop also moves across the entire board, whereas a knight can only move a few spaces back and forth.

[hushed lodge]

Bishops can get blocked easily 💀

[solar tapir]

easier to trap knights imo

since they can only move to a very limited amount of squares and all within a short range

[next tulip]

whereas a bishop can just attack it immediately
Bishops are locked to one color

And as Renivier said they can get very easily get blocked so they cant really go across the entire board much

[solar tapir]

True, in locked positions knights are better, but in open positions and endgames, I would prefer bishops because they do retain great scope across the board

[limpid gull]

Is the debate not over yet

[teal halo]

I think the chats stay open indefinitely. Don't know about the poll though. No reason to close it really. This way anyone joining later can still get their word in.