next-move-discussion

[drifting kiln]

yeah no ones reccomending f6 rn

[dim beacon]

i mean

its kinda winning man

[drifting kiln]

thank you for the vote totals

that gives us options, to either push for h6 or c6

whos poll master rn?

[dim beacon]

no idea

[drifting kiln]

eh

lemme scroll up and see if they discussed h6

they have not ok

[vagrant pelican]

We’ve not been running any polls

[drifting kiln]

h6 actually doesnt seem half bad

its pretty likely to win vote aswell so

[dim beacon]

js realized f6 also loses the knight

[drifting kiln]

maybe we should promote it

yeah f6 is death

as long as h6 beats it were good

[dim beacon]

its leading by two votes right now

[drifting kiln]

hopefully someone can promote h6 in chat pls

i gtg lol

[dim beacon]

am i stupid or is h6 losing

nvm im stupid

[drifting kiln]

something like h6 Bh4 Qe8 or c6

most likely c6 since the world wont vote for Qe8, even i didnt see it

[dim beacon]

but if bxe7 nxe7

she can just push d pawn

we'll have no space

[drifting kiln]

what about d6

or saomething idk

i have no time to look i gtg

[dim beacon]

exactly

no wait

d6 losing the knight

yea d6 is bad

h6 or c6 are the only options

[drifting kiln]

h6 and c6 are leading polls

Not sure which is better but at least one of them will most likely get played

I think we might start regaining some of our control over the moves if only we try

Oh not sure if h6 works

h6 12. Bxd5 hxg5 gives us this

Then after 13. Nxg5 Nxd5 14. Qh5 gives us this

Basically ideal for situation for Judit (the documentary said she's a very aggressive player)

Might have to be c6 then

[nova sand]

c6 is likely best

[raven hull]

Yeah playing c6 seems more even

She is a very aggressive player, I haven't watched the documentary but I've seen some of her matches and damn

[tender grove]

let’s play this, ends our suffering faster

[compact gale]

Not 13... Nxd5, instead .. g6

[drifting kiln]

i guess after g6, Bb4 or Bb3

i dont know if we are worse off than when we started

down a pawn but not so cramped, since we will play d5 or something next

[crude gull]

Do we survive that?

I haven’t calculated but it doesn’t seem good

We probably do, down a pawn with a good defense

Btw c6 loses a pawn too

[fiery delta]

Voted for c6.

[nova sand]

c6 is leading by about 300 votes

[turbid ravine]

I don’t think 13.g6 works, because there’s 14.Qg4 protecting the knight. We can’t take the bishop back because of 15.Qh4 and I’m not even sure that we can prevent the checkmate without losing the queen

[compact gale]

We hold with Kg7, but it's not wonderful, c6 is better.

[fiery delta]

I noticed that after c6 we have amazing Bb8 move option that controls the important diagonal and puts pressure later on. It's good that c6 wins. This shows that average rating of voters is above 1000 and they see the pins.

We will have one free tempo soon, where we can play Bb8 or other move. It's when Judit plays Nc3 after exchanging on d5. (We can play Re8 to protect the e7 Knight anytime).

[crude gull]

We still lose a pawn though

Is there any way to even avoid losing the pawn?

Without getting checkmated ofc

[compact gale]

Nope, not for h6, I don't think so.

[crude gull]

For c6?

[compact gale]

I don't see a way, not for c6 either.

[fiery delta]

Now it's an interesting moment of the match as Judit Polgar can respond in various ways. It's not so obvious what will be chosen, in contrast to few previous moves.

[vagrant pelican]

We’re losing the d5 pawn right after Nc3?

[crude gull]

Not necessarily right after, there is f6 I think

[vagrant pelican]

Wow. This channel has almost died 😀

[nova sand]

i feel like f6 isnt great because of our king safety

[sour forum]

tptally not bcz the players are even more ahh than last game

[surreal cipher]

it's very bad

[fiery delta]

I propose 13. ... d6, which puts pressure on e5 pawn, or 13. ... Bb8 for nice control of diagonals. From what I see, we can sacrifice one pawn for activity and King safety. King-side pawns must remain intact! Let's use tempo after Nc3 wisely. Then we play 14. ... Re8.

[fiery delta]

We should off-load the pressure on f6 square and move it onto our strong squares. We are few moves away from position, where Judit's attack seems less intensive.

Alternatively with 13. ... Bb8. Here our plan is to do 15. ... d6. Which position looks better for you?

[turbid ravine]

We are losing a rook for a minor piece in both of your examples.

Just like in the Prem Pandit vs Deep Sengupta game

[fiery delta]

Yes, I noticed that. But if Judit decides to exchange both pieces, she loses all the initiative and attack.

I think it's much better option to exchange Rook + Knight for very active Bishop + Knight instead of playing other passive moves or disrupt our King-side pawn chain.

[turbid ravine]

Her position would still be very strong with the rook on the open c file and the queen and the rook behind the dangerous advanced pawns. I don’t think we would have even a slim chance being down an exchange and a pawn against a GM

Qe8 looks like the least atrocious to me

[fiery delta]

Those advanced pawns won't be a significant threat (after those exchanges), because we can do d6 or d5, backed-up by our Bishops on b8 and c8.

If Judit plays Re1 before the exchange for even further conditional pressure on e7 point, we play d6 and after exd6 we have Bxd6! and protect the e7 Knight three times!

[turbid ravine]

I assume that you’re talking about the second position that you’re showing. After 15.d6, 16.Nxe7+ Rxe7 17.Bxe7 Qxe7, 18.exd6 and there’s a back-rank checkmate threat. If you don’t want to lose the queen, Qd7. After 19.Qe2, there seems to be all sorts of tactics, like Qxd6 20.Qe8+ Qf8 21. Rac1 Be6 22.Qxf8 Kxf8 and 23.d5, black cannot take because there is a checkmate, the king is cut off, the rook is blocked and the isolated passed pawn will easily
promote. Maybe I went too far, but I just can’t see a line where black is doing fine

[fiery delta]

OK, I saw this back-rank checkmate threat. But there's a response with h6 to make space for King (then g6).
Here's the game continuation when Judit goes for exchange and we rather should be fine:
13. Nc3 Bb8
14. Nxd5 Re8
15. Nxe7+ Rxe7
16. Bxe7 Qxe7
17. Re1 h6
18. Qd3 g6

[turbid ravine]

I included the analysis moves to the right to avoid confusion. Since we can’t defend the pinned knight with a minor piece or unpin it right away, she doesn’t have to capture straight away. Instead, she can play Re1 before the exchanges. In your line, she plays it after. But after your line, there’s Rc1 and if Qd8, Qe8 or Qf8, Qc4 straight up loses the light-squared bishop

Actually no, there’s Ba7

But regardless, Rc1 is also a key idea in many positions and we should be really careful of it

There are tactics everywhere and we can't move anything

[fiery delta]

Here's a version IF Judit first plays Re1 and then exchanges:
13. Nc3 Bb8
14. Nxd5 Re8
15. Re1 d6
16. Nxe7+ Rxe7
17. Bxe7 Qxe7
18. exd6 Qd7
I didn't check the tactics, and optional piece sacrifice.

[turbid ravine]

It's the exact same line I talked about earlier

I considered 19.Qe2, but again, 19.Rc1 might be even stronger

Or even 19.Re7

[fiery delta]

I didn't consider Rc1 in my analysis. Yes, the Rooks can be strong in this position.
But we'll grab the d6 Pawn in this line with Bishop and the second c-file Bishop will be protected by our Rook.

In summary I think that our Bb8 Bishop can do the job as on d6 he will protect from back-rank checkmate etc. For sure it's worth considering.
We can also play 18. ... Qd8 instead of 18. ... Qd7, and Bd7 for even more protection.

[turbid ravine]

You're right, I didn't see that

[turbid ravine]

After 18.Qe8, I saw that 19.Qe2 prevents Bxd6 because of 20.Qe8+ Qxe8 21.Rxe8 Bf8 forced and 22.Rc1 loses the light-squared bishop

After 19.Bd7, 20.Qe7 looks dangerous

[tender grove]

surprised people are still analyzing

[turbid ravine]

I was supposed to play an OTB classical game today, but my opponent didn't show up :(

So I do this instead

[fiery delta]

OK, these are further moves. You're probably right here. I think that White with two doubled and isolated pawns is a bit weak comparing to the attack he had, and we got king-side pawns intact. I wonder what are the results of chosing Bb8 or Qe8 in the current position.

[fiery delta]

Yes, I just saw this too, thank you. We must be careful. As I like this line, I probably vote for 13. ... Bb8. It leads to very interesting game.
I'm unsure about the 13. ... Qe8 as it may lead to even stronger center if she exchanges the Bishop and moves Knight to d5.

[turbid ravine]

The only move here for us would be Qd8. After this, I assume the main idea is to play d6 to break the center and develop the light-squared bishop. I see nothing too worrying, but we're still worse, of course.

Rc1 with the idea of Nc7 is still extremely annoying. Qe8 was way better than c6 two moves ago

[tender grove]

oh no shows are the worst

should disqualify them from future tournaments

[fiery delta]

So we have King-side pawn structure intact also in 13. ... Qe8 variant.
That's very interesting what you say about 11. ... Qe8. I admit I voted for c6, didn't see other options.

I think that in current situation, after 13. ... Bb8 we have some more space for our pieces. I know we sacrifice one pawn and the "quality" (in Polish it means exchanging Rook for minor piece). But probably we gain some more activity and space.

[turbid ravine]

11.Qe8 had practically no chance of winning and the other moves were f6? and h6?, so it was correct from a strategic voting perspective. I would be very surprised if Bb8 wins the vote

[fiery delta]

Checking some variants. If I see correctly in that line after 19. Qe2, we have Be6 and we lock the e-file with Bishop protected by pawn. (Sorry, nevermind, it's a mistake)

[turbid ravine]

It was Qd8, not Qe8, my bad

[fiery delta]

After 19. Qe2 we can grab the pawn with Queen and then protect the King with Qf8 against Qe8+. Uh oh. I pasted both variants on the game chat.

[fiery delta]

No problem, I figured out and knew you have Qd8 on mind. In the above position we can play Be6 and alike though.

[turbid ravine]

I was looking at this, and if she plays Rc1, we cannot play Be6, because there's Rxe6!!, and if fxe6, Judit can play Qxe6+, and there's either Kh8 Rc8 winning the queen because of the pin or Qf7 Rc8#

If the bishop goes somewhere else, it can be attacked with the knight or the pawns. Eventually, it'll have to leave the c8-h3 diagonal and Rc8 will come

[fiery delta]

I understand. I know that our situation is poor, and such defence is a last resort, but maybe we can unlock the Bishops in next moves.

I mean play first light-square Bishop, and then dark-square Bishop. For example we can do Bf5 with c8 square protection. Second Bishop move will threaten Judit's Queen.

[turbid ravine]

Actually, nevermind, black can play Bf4 after Rc1 and there is even Bh2+!! ideas that I missed. I don't think white can win material here. Regardless, strategically speaking, it's not very good. Like in the first line I've shown, our king is cut off and the isolated passed pawn is very hard to stop

[fiery delta]

From my point of view, our Bishop pair is our only strength here.

Thanks for conversation about the game. I learned some. So we'll see probably tomorrow, what Judit chose. I think that I go into this (Bb8), even that some lines lead to uncertain game. I think that if we disrupt King-side pawns we'll loose quickly.

[turbid ravine]

You're welcome, also thank you for your insights.

[crude gull]

h6 will win the vote

[fiery delta]

It doesn't look bad. I assume with g5 plan?

[compact gale]

13... h6 14 Bh4 Qe8 looks reasonable to me

[fast thistle]

how many games have we won in votechess

[fiery delta]

I understand that h6 is to make Bishop retreat and make space for our King. This seems sensible, also when we consider our previous analysis.

[compact gale]

We drew with Magnus in Freestyle/960

Last year

[hardy forge]

wait do you get a free win if that happens

[turbid ravine]

Yes, unless the opponent tells the organiser that they won’t be there before a certain deadline, in which case they get 0,5 points (like a draw) and I might play against a spare player. This didn’t happen yesterday, so I got a free win

At least that’s how it works at my local chess club

[fiery delta]

I probably understand now the h6 move followed by Qe8. The goal is to push Bishop to h4 and therefore disallow Bh6 move if we move f6 and gxf6 later. Now it makes sense to me. 🙂

[tender grove]

they would have to tell the organizers before pairings are made though

[fast thistle]

this position is dead lost

the only chance if we want to win future votechess games is if only they only people of specific rating to vote moves or ppl are just going to play wtv they want

[fast thistle]

whats ur fide rating

[crude gull]

In mine, I think game gets postponed if you notify beforehand

If you don’t, it’s just an automatic loss

[turbid ravine]

I started the playing OTB only the last month and the rating at my club isn’t a FIDE rating. Regardless, I’m 1508, last month, they just took my chess.com rapid rating and substract 100 points to give me my classical rating which was 1541 and I lost some rating points after the january tournament

I need to work on my endgames

[coral bramble]

Sorry! I couldn't display the game from https://www.chess.com/analysis/collection/tournoi-de-lentes-fevrier-2026-LdvQwZen/DAeYaGscJ/games?move=86 .
Contact @dense bridge if you think this should work.

Sorry! I couldn't display the game from https://www.chess.com/analysis/collection/tournoi-de-lentes-fevrier-2026-LdvQwZen/DAeYaGscJ/games?move=0 .
Contact @dense bridge if you think this should work.

[fast thistle]

So everyone's club rating depends on chess.com

[fast thistle]

qe8 is the only way to free the knight from the pin imo

we cant just babysit the knight forever

sure its gonna take some time to untangle from this but its all we got

g5 is weak since it weakens our king

[crude gull]

g5 frees the knight from the pin too

But it’s not good

[fast thistle]

if we play g5 she can play f4 in the future

[fast thistle]

it would untangle us one move shorter but its a massive risk

plus this is a daily game too

[fast thistle]

how do you even make broadcats for a touranment ur playing in chess.com

i thought only lichess did that

(i know top events are broadcasted on chess.com)

[azure beacon]

Si nous jouons f5, j ai un mauvais pressentiment : je pense que Judith va sacrifier une piece et nous mater ! Mais je n arrive pas à calculer la ligne gagnante des blancs...

If we play f5, I've got a bad feeling : i think Judith gonna sacrifice a piece and mat us ! But I can't calculate white winning ligne...

[river prawn]

i hope g5 wins so the game can end quickly

g5 Nxg5 hxg5 Bxg5 gg

[obsidian tinsel]

g5 Nxg5 and this is GG

[fiery delta]

Voted for Qe8. After g5 Judit goes for a piece sacrifice to clear the pawns and establish devastating attack on king-side.

I hope it won't end quickly as GothamChess match. People tend to vote for stronger moves now. Qe8 is 100 votes behind. More people joining, some less and some people more skilled.

If a piece sacrifice vs 2 pawns happen, some mentioned scenario can happen. Judit can sacrifice unused Knight to clear pawns and keep Pin. 🙁

[loud bronze]

nf5 wins

[fiery delta]

IMO World doesn't vote for big mistakes (or blunders), but moves that slowly gives us a worse position - 5... Bc5, 7... exd4. Judit played Opening knowing the theory, and this was sufficient to get better position than ours.

[azure beacon]

gg ?!
Our king is week, and white queen will come to join the party. I m pretty sure it is not the position we want against a famous attaking player.
But we ve got a knight for two pawn. And after moves like ...Qe8 ...Ng6 and ...d3, how does white win ? I ll be happy to learn as I can't calculate above these moves.

[fiery delta]

Again, World is going to play the correct move, but too late.
After 14... g5 15. Nxg5 hxg5 16. Bxg5 we're going to play 16... Qe8. The King loses defence.
And again, World's pieces going to be unuseful. Both Bishops, pinned Knight, Rooks.

But if I see correctly, this is not a quick loss yet (even after g5). The strong Bishop may still be exchanged (if Judit wants to do Nxd5), Queen needs assistance. I wonder which move will vanish all hope.

[nova sand]

We should 100% go Qe8 but there are too many g5 voters

I didn’t like 13. f6 because it weakened our king. 14. g5 has all the problems of 13. f6 but worse.

[inner iron]

I voted Qe8... Think it's better than g5.

[nova sand]

As of right now, Qe8 is behind by 353 votes.

[compact gale]

If g5 is played, it is a trivial win for Judit.

[nova sand]

we have 7 hours left for our move and Qe8 is 435 votes behind g5...

this piece is leaving the chessboard soon

[fast thistle]

NOOO g5 is at the top

we need 500 more votes

in the next 3 hrs

for qe8

[crude gull]

☠️

[tender grove]

example line 17.Bxe7 Qxe7 Qg4+ Kh8 Nxd5 Qe6 Qh5+ Kg7 Nc7 followed by Nxa8 and Rac1 to save the knight and black’s kingside and material deficit are going to be fatal (also this probably isn’t even white’s cleanest win but idc enough to find it)

[fiery delta]

Yes, I understand it's fatal Piece structure on our side. I mentioned earlier that disrupted Pawn structure on King-side will lead to rather quick loss. It requires just few moves. All our pieces are not working and are without any coordination.

Thank you for giving the winning sequence.

I guess that after the game, the analysis will be similar to GothamChess match: A step-by-step lose of the piece coordination. Not immediate, but slow.

[dull brook]

Yeah… seems like even best case scenario we end up down 2-3 points of material after all the trades are over, and that’s only if Judit goes easy on us. Down 2 pawns against a GM in an endgame is completely lost anyways.
Should we just vote resign at this point?

[nova sand]

g5 made the position go from "White has the upper hand" to "Black is incinerated"

[dull brook]

Chess.com should mandate players to contribute lines in the future before they can vote and we can build upon each others’ lines.

This is just like that Gothamchess v world game, people voting for 1 move attacks without ever considering the continuation.

[compact gale]

Well said

[drifting kiln]

Just checked in on the game

g5??????????

[dull brook]

😭

[obsidian tinsel]

Ng6 is a much trickier move, but of course the vast majority votes to take back and make it easy

Looks like I could beat the world at this rate

[fast thistle]

Qh5 the pawn is lost

Even if we defend with the king there's a Knight sacrifice to get the queen

[dull brook]

Given a day to analyze each move, if you’re dedicated enough, even a 1200 can probably play like a 2000 in rapid. So yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised…

[dull brook]

There’s really not much we can do either way. There are some tricks that might work against a 1500 but not against Judit with 24 hours
What’s more interesting now is try to predict her next move and calculate the fastest way she can checkmate us

[obsidian tinsel]

Yes but then hxg5 and there is no longer the pin, though bxg5 is gg now that I look again

it was over after exd4 I guess

[fast thistle]

Its always the 500 elos that ruin the whole game

[nova sand]

almost all the hxg5 voters are low rated

idk why 1000s are accepting the sacrifice they really shouldn’t be

[crude gull]

What’s your plan after Ng6?

It doesn’t matter whether we accept or not, we’re lost

15… Ng6 16. Qh5

[fiery delta]

Ng6 allows the White to attack from discover on our Queen. I really don't prefer such solution as it's even more risky.

The construction of Knight and Bishop in current position I call as "battery", because the Knight is covering the Bishop's attack line. So moving the Knight may be called "attack from discover" or "from battery". At least this is how I learned it from some book long time ago.

(Sometimes a battery is called a group force of Bishop + Queen or Rook(s) + Queen, but I don't call it that way).

Current position is very bad for Black, like was stated, but I voted for hxg5. Too bad so much people don't realize how bad moves were made. How this is possible?

[loud bronze]

🤣🤣 she blundered her knight

[compact gale]

Only going to get a queen or king for it, sad

[dull brook]

knight is worth 3 points, king doesn’t have a value. Judit sacrificed 3 points to gain zero, it’s a clean blunder.

[fiery delta]

The sacrificed Knight moved just once in the entire game. It was so inactive, thus has overall less value. Of course some of our pieces didn't move at all!

King is invaluable. The activity of pieces adds some value to them. Pawn which is advancing has more value than standard pawn. The same for active Bishop, which can sometimes be worth a Rook. On the other hand pinned pieces are worth less.

We have a hole in defence, which give minus points to our value.

[dull brook]

(I’m trolling if anyone can’t tell. I already voted resign on move 15.)

[sour forum]

u still here?

btw i quit the game 💀 this is more ahh than the gothamchest game

[compact gale]

I believe most of the players would not be able to win this if we switched sides

Now that would be interesting

[trail condor]

play b6 the pawn is still protected by the queen and it attacks the pawn so basically trading and simplifying the position

and so judit doesn't hold the center

and also idk why they took the knight

you could've, again, played b6 and gave the bishop on white square more space

you shouldn't accept a sacrifice if it's clearly not a blunder

[turbid ravine]

Now, I could 100% guarantee that we will lose

[sour forum]

that should have been posted 8 moves ago

[sour forum]

pin this perhaps

[trail condor]

yes after they took the knight its over for us

[fiery delta]

Which move do you recommend in this position (despite it's losing)? I am thinking about Qe8. I'm still with this match. I didn't lost hope yet. In GothamChess match I lost hope in move 35. Ke2 Re8+. I voted for resignation once in that match, but then stayed until the end and voted.

I'm curious how Judit check-mates us here. I find fun in participation, despite players voted incorrectly and just bad.

I'm after two-step voting in next event. This should solve all the problems, if event still going to be targetted to wide audience.

[fiery delta]

Are you sure? Also do you mean b6 or d6? I prefer to un-pin the Queen.

[trail condor]

d6 i meant

[inner iron]

After d6, will she play Bf6, Qh5, Qg4, or Re1? (Quiz Time)

[fiery delta]

OK, I voted for d6. Very close results between d6 and Qe8, but d6 leads. Resignation takes third place.

IMO the Qe8 looks safer. We must transfer our forces to King-side. I know we won't do it on time.

[inner iron]

If we played Qe8 and she played Bf6, what would we play, because her queen is about to become active... Thoughts of Qh5 and Qh8# are scary... Even if Ng6, after Qh5, then there are thoughts of Qh6 and Qg7#...

[tender grove]

Nxd5 possible too if she feels like torturing the team

[compact gale]

Bf6 going for the King

[gentle stag]

Even though i voted for resign wouldnt Qe8 be the best move here

I think it lasts the longest but either way we are getting mated

[drifting kiln]

arent we gonna have to give up the queen?

some combination of Qg4 or Qh5 and Bf6 (maybe even throwing a Nxd5) is surely mate in a few moves

[dull brook]

given that we are lost for sure, is it ethical to boot up an engine and see whether it gives evaluation of mate-in-N and if so, what is the fastest checkmating sequence?
ethical questions to think about...

[dull brook]

I'm not sure. If Qe8 then Judit will probably play Bf6. Checkmate will come in 2 moves afterwards and none of our pieces can get there in time

Qe8 might work against a 1500- if our opponent plays 17.Qh5 immediately then pushing the f-pawn comes with a revealed attack on the queen. But since we're playing a GM I see zero chance she misses this.

I suspect our best option is Ng6, giving up the queen immediately. This is of course also completely lost, but at least we don't get checkmated in a few moves.

[vagrant pelican]

No. Engine use only after the game is over

[sour forum]

Rules are rules 🥀

-# Yall if i built a home engine can i run it(jk)

[tender grove]

if you really want to do this you should leave the game and not discuss it until the game is over

[dull brook]

Bros like “chess is a game of brains, what’s stopping me from using my brain to build an engine”

Meh. Yall are right. I’ll wait till the game is over.

[obsidian tinsel]

majority voting for a move that does about nothing

[sour forum]

@sour forum

[trail condor]

how cooked are we on a scale of 1/10 (higher than 10 only)

[compact gale]

How about estimated moves until checkmate?

5? 10? 15? 20? More?

[trail condor]

didnt calculate that yett but im for sure we already lost

[dull brook]

My instinct is like 15+ if we play perfectly
But uh given the voting patterns I feel like we’d just vote something dumb again and get mated in 5

[tender grove]

it’ll probably be 10 with the world playing

[fiery delta]

If I were Judit, I would play Bf6 in current position. As of number of moves to check-mate, I'm not sure - maybe 15-20. It's interesting that the World doesn't play check-mate or Queen blunder, but consequently worsen our position.

[dull brook]

Agreed, Bf6. Forcing us to sacrifice our queen on the f6 square, then sacrifice our dark squared bishop on f6 again to delay checkmate.

This is what I think may happen,

[Event "Judit Polgar Vs The World"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2026.02.06"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Judit"]
[Black "The World"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C78"]
[TimeControl "1/86400"]
[StartTime "08:00:00"]
[Link "https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/415015"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Bc5 6. c3 O-O 7. d4 exd4 8. cxd4
   Ba7 9. e5 Nd5 10. Bb3 Nce7 11. Bg5 c6 12. Bxd5 cxd5 13. Nc3 h6 14. Bh4 g5 15.
   Nxg5 hxg5 16. Bxg5 d6 (16... d6 17. Bf6 dxe5 18. Qh5 (18. dxe5 Ng6 19. Qh5 Qxf6
2. exf6 Rd8 (20... Bd4 21. Nxd5 Be6 (21... Bxf6 22. Nxf6+ Kg7 23. Qg5 Be6 24.
   f4 (24. Nh5+ Kh8 (24... Kh7 25. Qf6 (25. Nf6+ Kg7 26. Nh5+ Kh7 27. f4 f6 28.
   Nxf6+ Rxf6 29. Qxf6 Bd5 30. f5 Nf8 31. Qe7+ Kh6 32. f6 Bc6 33. f7 (33. Qg7+ Kh5
3. Rf4 (34. Rf5+ Kh4 35. Qg5#))) 25... Rg8) 25. Qf6+) 24... Rfc8 25. f5 Bxf5
4. Rxf5 b6) 22. Qh6 Bxf6 23. Nxf6#) 21. Qh6) 18... Ng6 19. Bxd8 Rxd8 20. Nxd5)

But then again I’m not a GM 🤷

[dull brook]

thoughts on these lines i posted? only spent like 10 minutes on them and i'm like 1200. Please point out problems

[fiery delta]

I'm also 1200. 🙂 Qh5 is on the board. I'm thinking about Be6. We have fatal, bare King and our Pieces can't reach active placement.

Bxd4 is winning. Hmm... this pawn is not defended. Really, people are considering straight-forward moves only. They don't calculate more than one move and only base on immediate profit.

[fiery delta]

Hmm... People on the chat suggest Bf5, which seems to be the only possibility to transfer active piece to King-side.

The idea of 17... Bxd4 would be 18... Bxe5 but there's 18. Bf6 with Mate in one move. Again, too late. You were right that we lost quickier than GothamChess.

16... Qe8 was better (I voted for)? Now I see that the attack is even more devastating than I thought. Not a single good option.

P.S. I voted for Be6. It looked very good option for now! But there are so many threats.

[crude gull]

17… Bf5 18. Bf6, how are you preventing Qh8# without losing material now?

[fiery delta]

I can't see any solution to avoid Qh8# after Bf6 without losing material. As of Be6 I noticed such move at first, thus I chose it (with idea to defend against Nxd5).

People on the chat suggested Bf5 then resignation. As I can't see any reasonable defence for us, I will vote resign too. We were trapped much earlier than in GothamChess match. In that match we did several moves before check-mate.

Probably because GothamChess had a bit passive, blocked position upto move 14. Exchanges gave him some breath and space.

Here we're just lost just after the Ruy-Lopez opening.

[compact gale]

Ng6 stops mate, but sacs the queen for a bishop and the original Nxg5 sac

[crude gull]

Yup, that goes on the losing material part.

[fiery delta]

Yes, I have seen this Ng6 defence with queen sacrifice too (posted a board with this continuation on game chat some time ago). I'm not sure in which move was original Nxg5 sacrifice. Now, game will go into "second" stage where Judit will require a piece to assist her Queen in attack perhaps. If Bxd4 is played and after mentioned moves, we can hit the e5 pawn.

[dull brook]

is Ng6 defense better or f6 defense? Both sacrifice tons of material. I wonder which one ends up better.

Ng6 will probably be followed by Bf6 anyways forcing us to exchange queen for bishop on her terms, so Judit will have a pawn on f6 that is very dangerous, and we'd probably have to sac our bishop for it.
f6 is met with exf6.
Which one is slightly less hopeless?

[vagrant pelican]

18… Ng6 preventing mate is the top move as expected

The world only knows to sac the queen when mate is the threat

[compact gale]

17... f6 was better. Only losing our Ne7

(in the initial combo)

[sage jetty]

How cooked can the world be that the only way to prevent checkmate is to sack the queen.

[sour forum]

We are COOKED

[compact gale]

I know we are lost, but that was always going to be the result with chess.com vote chess design.

It is not a trivial win.

I don't think the world could win this playing from her side. So stick around for a free grandmaster lesson.

Converting the full point

Efficiently

[compact gale]

We do have two bishops as compensation

[crude gull]

At this point, I am pretty sure the world would win

Maybe I have too much faith in the World

[compact gale]

I think you do!

You could do it, but not the 600 elo world.

[fast thistle]

its joever

face the truth

people are js gonna play what they want (literally the most random moves)

and judits gonna play the best move since shes the best woman in the world
our winrate from here is bascially 0%

[fiery delta]

7... exd4 and 14... g5 were probably worst moves. I think that these 14... g5 voters must be novice players without any experience in Chess. I understand not knowing Opening theory of Ruy-Lopez and lack of 5... Be7, but that I can't understand. (I said earlier about g5 as a continuation of h6 predicting what was an idea with this move, of course I was aware that Knight sacrifice is in order - I mentioned this many times earlier.)

Also I think that Garry Kasparov game was so nicely designed, because it was different Internet times in 1999. I recall this game but didn't participate (saw this game page).

[compact gale]

Kasparov wrote a book about it. He was proud of the level of the challenge that seriously pushed him. One of his best games, period.

I have a copy

[dull brook]

I heard it is the single most (human) analyzed game in world history.

[compact gale]

I think that likely

[fiery delta]

It's nice that you have such book. Can you please write the title of this Kasparov's book? I didn't see this match notation.

Judit instead of taking Queen played even more dangerous move. We can't grab the Bishop now. I voted for Bxe5, but I'm close to resigning.

I'm curious how 17... Be6 I voted could change things a bit (at least prevent this move).

[compact gale]

Why resign now?

[fiery delta]

Well, I mean only "vote resign", not resignation from match. I was scared by Nxd5 and thinking that Judit's attack can become even more dangerous, as she wasn't forced to grab our Queen. However I read on game chat that we still have both Bishops and Judit will need effort to win.

Some interesting moves are still ahead of us, but World can play inaccuracies, that costs us a Piece after several moves.

Thank you for the book's title. I've got few Chess books, but none from Kasparov.

[fiery delta]

It seems that the "Kasparov against the World" book was released only in English language. Couldn't find edition with Polish translation.

Many Chess books are translated to Polish.

[fiery delta]

I'm considering now Bd4+ or Bxb2.

[vagrant pelican]

Bd4+ has the lead

[drifting kiln]

i think bd4 is best

we need tempo before she plays f5

[fiery delta]

I voted for Bd4+. Yes, we have one extra move even before she plays f5, so we may be prepared.

[dull brook]

Same thought here, Bd4+. We need to cover the f6 square and the check gives another tempo.

[hardy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-laptop-drake-gif-21716481

[dull brook]

looks like Bd4+ will win. What do we do after Judit plays Kh1?

I feel like we need to complicate matters. We are massively down material and we are definitely lost but we could at least make things fun-- and maybe try to delay the inevitable.
The problem is we don't have many natural developing moves. Be6 results in a pawn fork. Moving the knight is hard. Maybe bd7?

I'm really not sure what to do here.

[compact gale]

Kg7 ?

[fiery delta]

I voted for Kg7. Bxb2 is winning. The second choice is Be6 with 157 less votes.

I have some deja'vu from GothamChess match. People vote for tactics instead of strategic moves.

[dull brook]

Thought about this move as well. I got good results in a few lines I was trying.
But I'm 1300, not 2700, it looks weird playing Judit... do you have specific lines?

[compact gale]

No, we are losing another piece (bishop) soon in nearly every line including Kg7 after f5.

[dull brook]

I feel like the biggest justification for Kg7 is that "if we don't play this, Qh6 traps the king." Sad situation.

But again, can't really see many specific lines here

[compact gale]

Ngl, it is looking pretty grim

f5 is the threat

[dull brook]

hey, we might survive for another 10 moves...?

that's something right. 😂

[compact gale]

Gosh, maybe even 15!?

[jovial magnet]

so far it looks like the next move will be 22...Bxb2

and I think Judit will play f5

if we take the rook it's checkmate so I suppose we will sack our bishop

and after that I don't know what we would play

[tawny fable]

For the next person are we playing the cow?

Pia crammling vs the world

[compact gale]

Rf8 probably

[jovial magnet]

that would be cool

but we will probably go with the most common 4 or 5 oppening moves, to then do something stupid and then start cheating (suddenly knowing the best move every time) once we're like 10 moves past lost because that's when it sinks in

altough I guess it would not be fun if people cheated from the start so it's not that bad

but it would still be fun to see people be consistent and still vote genuinely when we're lost instead of dramatically changing playing styl

style

like, we hung a 1 move tactic at the beginning but after loosing our queen we saw mate in 9 from a mile away

[dull brook]

From a moral perspective, cheating is bad. From a fun perspective, I'd almost hope if people all cheated in the first 15 moves so we can have a good middle game.

[dull brook]

Ngl this is not that surprising. If the obvious move is a blunder, perhaps say 25% of players would play that bad move. The other 75% players recognize it's a blunder but can't get enough of a concentrated decision to form a plurality.

But if let's say there's only one move that stops in mate-in-5, maybe only 30% of players see it, but now it's the converse- the other 70% of players can't get enough of a plurality to overrule the smart 30%.

An unstructured world team does well when the position looks like a puzzle, i.e. only one move wins/doesn't lose. When a bunch of moves are all pretty decent, the vote fragments...

[vestal nebula]

What about positions where there's one move that looks very tempting but is actually a blunder? I feel like those would be hardest for an unstructured world team to play because so many people would choose the tempting move and get a plurality/majority.

[obsidian tinsel]

the majority voting for Bxb2 which is continuing the trend of moves that are auto captures

that's met with f5

[dull brook]

I mean... it might end our misery sooner

🤣

[dull brook]

Indeed. There's for sure a "meta" of creating tempting moves when playing against a world team.
I think as long as an obvious move gets like, 25% of people to vote for it, it's almost impossible for an unstructured team to try to overrule it even if they begin to recognize it's a problem.

unless of course there's a clear obvious move to get out of trouble. Then maybe the remaining 75% of players can figure it out.

[fiery delta]

Voted for Nf8. The results are strange. I don't like them. Three top options are Bxa1, Resign and Bxf5. Are people playing worse each move?
Ah, I didn't see Ne7+ gives check too... I played this because I wanted the Bishop to protect whole diagonal.

[dull brook]

yeah, anywhere the knight moves checks are coming.
Bxf5 seems to simply lose to Qxf5, there's no time to capture the rook since Qxf7+ is coming.
Bxa1 seems just stupid. Judit captures the knight and captures back the bishop, we lose two minor pieces for a rook while already down material.
Not sure what to play here.

[fiery delta]

If I could correct my move, I would play Ne5. This was my first thought. The situation looks dramatic indeed. If Rook comes into action, check-mate is imminent.

Or maybe Nh8 providing our Bishop protects it.

[compact gale]

23... Bxf5 was our best resistance.

23... Bxa1 is mated in 4 starting with 24. fxg6

[compact gale]

Mated in 3 starting with 24. f6

[jovial magnet]

we didn't even make two more moves and it's already about to be mate on the board, unless the vote totals radically change, damn XD

[dull brook]

hey, i'm an optimist

blunders are just happy accidents along the way ;D

[jovial magnet]

yay

hey

I do wonder

what we will play after 24 fxg6

[dull brook]

hmm

[jovial magnet]

I mean, 24... Be6 is the coolest because then Judit can sacrifice the other rook for mate

24... Bg7 is kinda boring because it's just 25 gxf7+ Kf8 26. Qh7 and it's probably what we're playing because hehe me save bishop now me up rook

24... Rd7 is also pretty lame because we sacrifice our rook, unless we go the quicker route and after 25 gxf7+ we don't take and we just go Kg7 allowing another queen to promote and also checkmate at the same time

24... fxg6 is also not so fun, she would just take back and then play Rf7 and it's checkmate next move

24... Kf8 is kinda neat, it's mate in two, 25. Rxf7+ Ke8 26. Nc7#

or 26. Qh8+ Bxh8 27. Nc7# lmfao

yeah and everything else is just Qh7+ Qf7#

[jovial magnet]

I say we push for Be6

coz double rook sack

that's pretty cool

[dull brook]

lmao, that is pretty cool, yes

[fast thistle]

Joever

[fiery delta]

That was pretty quick. Judit played very strong, comparing to Gotham Chess. She found this f-pawn as bulldozer.

I was enjoying this match though. Next game with Ding Liren. I like his play-style 🙂 But the rules must change somehow.

[dull brook]

I mean, not surprising that a super GM played stronger than an IM right

Judit may be a bit older now but she’s still Judit 🤷

[dull brook]

How’s Ding doing these days?

I doubt he’d lose to the world team regardless, but I hope he isn’t stressing out over chess like before.

[dull brook]

Bxa1 will win the vote. I concur with David and blue wizard’s analysis—— it’s mate in 4 so mate on move 27. The question is, how do we want to go out?

Be6 is fun, but perhaps fxg6 is also “fun” in the sense of getting your own king stuck in a corner.

[fiery delta]

From what I heard Ding Liren is active chess-player. It's not a surprise, since he's a former World Champion. 🙂

I loved his match with Nepo and Gukesh. He's so calm.

Judit Polgar played great, but we could have made better decisions if the voting system was appropriately adapted, so that such big Inaccuracies thorough entire match were not played.

If low-skilled people don't want to learn or at least read the chat, here's the result.

This event "Judit Polgar vs the World" was nice, but could be more interesting. Because right now, we have an amateur game, where one side is amateur, and the other side is a Grand Master. Is the voting system going to be improved? We had so many suggestions, like:

• Two step voting,
• Mean rating of the voters within specified range,
• Grand master suggestions considered with greater weight,
• Chat on the top of the page etc.

[compact gale]

In the Kasparov against the World game in 1999, the world played near grandmaster strength with several changes to the format of the game.

1. There were 4 featured strong young masters providing their analysis and advice before the world could see Kasparov's move or vote. So the world could read that before they could move.

2. There was a regular schedule with both sides moving at the same time every day.

3. One of the young masters (Irina Krush, US Womens Champion) provided a game tree collecting all the best analysis. This included The Grandmaster Chess School of St Petersburg, Russia

https://www.gamecolony.com/kasparov_world_match.html

(Jude Acers commentary)

Kasparov published a book on this game.

[dull brook]

Irina played incredibly well in that game.

I love the world team chat’s logic of “hey if we just take Judit’s rooks and put our rooks there it’d be back rank checkmate

I wish I have that level of optimism 😂

[jovial magnet]

aw man

fxg6 is winning

why do we insist on playing weird moves

[crude gull]

It’s fine

As fine as getting mated can be

[jovial magnet]

yeah but Be6 was cooler :c

because Qh7+ Rxf7!!

like, there's about 5 moves that are m3

and the others are m2 with Qh7+ Qf7#

[crude gull]

Also maybe she forgot about our bishop on a1 and would play Qh8+ instead /j

[jovial magnet]

ah yes, the everpresent invisible bishop from the other side of the board

the good old sniper bishop

but hey

if we don't accept the rook sack

and go Ke8

then Nc7 is checkmate

but judit can first play Qh8+ for absolutely no reason

and then go Nc7#

[crude gull]

Qg8# is also checkmate

But Nc7 is cooler

[crude gull]

But yeah that’d be a nice troll

[jovial magnet]

hehe

[dull brook]

If Judit is the queen of chess, and she sacrifices a queen for no reason, does that mean she sacrifices... herself?

Oh btw, you know what'd be an even better trolling? 27. Kg1

There's nothing we can play to stop mate anyways, now that'd be funny.

[jovial magnet]

maybe

[jovial magnet]

damn

[fiery delta]

I consider our last moves to be huge Blunders unlike earlier Inaccuracies. Let's see the Analysis. The match is going to end very soon. Rook + Queen (+ Knight) easy mate.

[fiery delta]

These are fantastic rules. I'm quite sure there must be changes to the format, to be competetive against GrandMaster in such match!

[fiery delta]

The "Grandmaster Chess School" sounds interesting. I learned Russian language in school (both elementary and high-school), but didn't use it daily. I learned Chess from various books, I love the way the chess is teached by many authors:

• Basics (how the pieces move, how the Pawn moves),
• Special moves (castling, long, short, en-passant),
• Openings,
• Strategy and tactics, pin, battery,
• End-games.

I admit that in child-hood I played long Castling different way. I thought it's a move of King toward Rook and the replacement.

[jovial magnet]

hey, I guess after 24... fxg6 25. Qxf6+ we will play 25... Bg7 "saving" our bishop, I find it unlikely players would in majority vote for 25... Kh8.

after 26. Rf7 tough, I wonder if resign will finally win or if Rd7 "covering" the checkmate because apparently trading is obligatory, will win.
or maybe some other move like Bf5

[dull brook]

The only problem with this is that then it kinda becomes "a couple of strong GMs fight an even stronger GM," it kinda loses the spirit.
I still think the one thing we DESPERATELY need is a SHARED analysis board. If the point of a world game is for the world to pool together its energy and wisdom, then why don't we have a SHARED board? Why do I have to go to discord and dig through 2 pages of messages to find any analysis?

The solution in my mind is clear. The first 12 hours for each move on the world side is the "analysis" phase. Anyone can propose and modify and upvote and downvote lines. The next 12 hours are for voting.

The only hard thing here is how exactly are we going to weight/pool lines proposed by different people. Some people are going to propose bad lines. Some lines are very unclear and branch off massively. I have to think more about this. But somehow this feels like the only way forward.

[compact gale]

Irina Krush's game tree

[dull brook]

A preliminary idea I have is the following:

During the analysis phase, the shared board dynamically maintains a game tree. Initially it just shows every possible legal move. Any player can do their own analysis, and when they are done, can sync the results with the shared board, updating the game tree and adding the lines they looked into.

For each move, the shared analysis dynamically maintains a "principal variation" + various side lines. The way it works is this: at each layer of the game tree, for each move in the game tree, each player gets one upvote and one downvote to spend: to upvote the best reply, and to downvote a bad one.

Let me illustrate with an example. Let's say the game tree now contains 10. Qe5 and 10. Qe6, each of which is met with one of two replies, 10 ... Bd4 and 10 ... Bc5. A very simple game tree two layers deep.

At the top, players get to upvote one of Qe5 and Qe6 (which one they think is best), and downvote another (which one they think should absolutely not be played). And for each of the two moves, players get to upvote one reply (Bd4 or Bc5) that they think is the strongest, and downvote one reply they think should not be played.

The principal variation is derived layer by layer. The net votes for each move is calculated.

For example, let's say Qe5 got 50 upvotes and 10 downvotes, Qe6 got 60 upvotes and 40 downvotes. Then Qe5 is the first move of the principal variation. Let's say under Qe5, Bd4 has more net votes than Bc5. Then the PV is 10. Qe5 Bd4.

During the voting phase, the system asks you to pick between the top 10 most explored moves during analysis. Even if a move is hard to find it should be top 10; there are seldom more than 10 sensible moves on a chess board at once. And you can vote after spending at least 5 minutes reading the (now locked) analysis board.

The point of my design is:
(a) pool exploration of replies, so one-movers are caught early on.
(b) allow stronger players to coordinate veto power, stopping vote fragmentation when one bad move gets a plurality.
(c) the more players play, the more the game tree is fleshed out- in other words, the world team actually gets to play better with numbers, even if the average quality of players stays constant. You know, as a world team should, not this clown fiesta of blundering.

@compact gale thoughts?

[compact gale]

Interesting, but I don't see how the voting could work when dominated by beginning players. I don't see how stronger players "coordination" influences the beginners or each other with the disorganized chat.

The recognized coaches explain their analysis and recommendations and the world primarily chooses between them. The coaches must also sell their analysis to players of different abilities.

Strong players could contribute and improve the coaches ideas, but I think the voting on each move node is too onerous for humans.

The game tree would support that better. But how to control the torrents of bad suggestions? How to evaluate and prune them? A moderated game tree perhaps?

[compact gale]

Bad suggestions would remain in the tree with the refutation, but further analysis would be discouraged (how?). Note that a refutation can be refuted too.

[dull brook]

Well, I think voting shouldn’t be required during analysis. This actually further encourages stronger opinions without killing the democratic spirit, because stronger voters are more likely to see many moves ahead and come up with good replies and be dedicated enough to care.

If a newbie only sees a one-mover and doesn’t care to evaluate further, their bad vote only corrupts one or two nodes in the vast game trees.

[dull brook]

Downvotes will be available but not required. Perhaps strong players can’t agree on whether A, B, C, D are the best but they can all agree move E is dogshit. If E is winning then the hope is that there will be a coordinated downvote bringing it down.

[compact gale]

Coordinated down voting in the present format fails most of the time.

Why would it be different in your proposal?

[dull brook]

Because there is no coordinated downvoting in the present format

Rn, the problem is that as long as a bad attracts like 25% votes, other players simply form a plurality to overrule it

[compact gale]

There were coordinated comment campaigns tho

[dull brook]

But if the other 75% of players can agree that it’s a blunder, they can downvote it to oblivion.

A lot of ppl don’t read comments

And again, because voting and analysis is optional during the analysis phase, I think my design will cause a self-selection to occur. Stronger voters will vote more during analysis.

The alternative is to do rank-choice voting (ie I prefer A to B to C to D but absolutely not E), though I kinda hate rank-choice. Arrow’s paradox.

[compact gale]

It is not clear that self selection would occur as you hope.

Ranked choice would not stop bad bullet moves.

[dull brook]

Well, it’s not a mathematical guarantee. But even at the worst case scenario, “nothing changes”, this design at least (1) makes information much more accessible on a shared board with detailed documentation of lines, rather than having to dig through comments, and (2) delays voting by 12 hours so that people aren’t voting dumb shit because nobody knows any better.

[compact gale]

Your algorithm (minimax) heavily depends on evaluating positions reasonably well

[dull brook]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true

As long as someone is able to identify the critical replies during analysis and those responses receive upvotes while obviously bad replies are downvoted, then we approach positional understanding without actually having to ask people to give a number.

[compact gale]

Well, we would need a way to test this.

[dull brook]

I would agree that asking people to vote “is this position winning” is a terrible idea.

[dull brook]

True. I wonder where I can find like 100 people to test this.

Have to be randomly sampled too. Can’t be all good players.

And I’d have to program the software since chess.com clearly doesn’t support shared analysis… I don’t know how to set up cloud sync. Oh well.

[compact gale]

Lichess does, but not at world scale

[dull brook]

Hmm…

[compact gale]

They are called studies

You could do this in Google sheets or docs

Irina did it with 1999 technology

And not a programmer

[dull brook]

Oh I’m sure it’s doable provided everyone involved is… dedicated

[compact gale]

She moderated

[dull brook]

Yk what I mean David? Like if I have 100 dedicated participants I can make flying messages on pigeons work. But if they’re randos? Then I’d have to make it clean and nice.

[compact gale]

It was done in 1999

[dull brook]

I’ll have to look more into this.

[obsidian tinsel]

The majority voting for the move that is checkmate in 3

The misery is over at least

I assume she already played the conditional moves

[dull brook]

It’s mate in 3 on the board. Majority is technically voting for the best move here.

[gentle stag]

Whats the mate in 3 after Kf8

Probably something simple but i cant find it

I found a mate in 4

[dull brook]

Kf8 leads to mate in 2. Don't forget about that horse.

In the position after 24 fxg6, one move and one move only (24... Rf8) leads to mate-in-1, 24...Be6, 24... fxg6, 24... Bg7 and 24... Rd7 lead to mate-in-3, and everything else leads to mate-in-2, if I'm not mistaken.

Probably for the first time since like move 3, the world has played the best move by picking mate-in-3 over mate-in-2 and mate-in-1. 🤣

[gentle stag]

Yeah i missed the knight mate

[compact gale]

129%

[dull brook]

on the bright side

100% of players played the best move

[fiery delta]

I saw it 🙂 Now the forced checkmate: 25. Ne7+ Kg7 26. Qxg6+ Kh8 27. Qh6#

[crude gull]

I expected her to play the other mate 25. Qxg6+ Kh8 26. Rf7 Bf5 27. Rh7#
or 25… Bg7 26. Rf7 Rd7 27. Qxg7#

But this one works too 🤷🏻‍♂️

[tender grove]

25%*

[dull brook]

Stockfish gives this a great move, the only great given to the world in this entire game.

25... Resign!

[tawny fable]

WE HAVE 1 MINUTE LEFT

WTF

[dull brook]

Now that we lost, what do we do? Maybe offer a draw? Maybe move our king around and try to get a stalemate? 🤔🤔🤔

Such difficult questions 🤔🤔🤔

Jokes aside, who’s down to spend an hour or two going through this game?

[dull brook]

We should coordinate a time and check lines from move 8 to move 20, something like that.

[compact gale]

Sure, we can do that.

[vagrant pelican]

Can just keep discussing

[compact gale]

Sorry, but Cc game review is pathetic

[dull brook]

Wait wdym

[compact gale]

Especially the move by move commentary

[dull brook]

This is true

[fiery delta]

Even exd4 is on 4th chess-engine line with +1.28, so it's not that bad. The crucial mistake was g5 of course, but only with Knight sacrifice using it. The intermediate moves were not bad, just slight innaccuracies. 9. ... Ne4 is considered best.

[dull brook]

This is true, but I think exd4 is only “not that bad” if you are super GM/engine level. We got our knights kicked around and one knight pinned. We were at a big space and activity disadvantage. Sure, if our name is “stockfish” we’d find crazy defensive resources and defend correctly, but we’re not stockfish. We got ourselves in a difficult position and cracked under pressure.

Even if the world didn’t play the idiotic g5, we’d still face long term pressure and make mistakes subsequently.

[dull brook]

I am looking at defense possibilities on move 17. We could've picked between 17... Bxd4, 17 ... f6 and 17... dxe5, all with similar evaluations given best play.

The question is, why is this position- +5.1- considered even better for white compared to this position, which would've come from playing 17... dxe5?

The f6 position results with black somewhat stabilizing, connecting rooks, threatening a pawn on d4 which would create passed pawns, and the white pawn on e7 although one square from promoting has no real prospects. The dxe5 position has white up more material. While black can play Bc6 in second image stabilizing the position, I find it hard to believe that this is comparatively worse for white.

[dull brook]

After stepping through a lot of continuations, the only reason I can think of is that in this position, as long as white defends the d4 pawn appropriately, black can never use the dark-squared bishop to capture d7. This means that eventually black has to sac a rook to remove that pawn, restoring a +4~+5 material advantage to Judit. Still, it's not a very sharp line- white cannot checkmate black without promoting a pawn, whereas in the other position I posted, I stepped through a bunch of continuations and it's very dangerous.

[dull brook]

In this position, aside from threatening the d5 pawn, white can still play f4 whenever they wish. This more or less takes away the natural developing square for the light square bishop at e6, forcing the bishop to either go to d7 or stay put. The only thing I can see going for black is that black can play Kg7 and Rd8 kicking the queen, but the queen will just move away to i.e. g5 pinning the knight, or to d1 threatening the pawn at d5. Why exactly this position is considered "better" for black is beyond me. It's not like black has any counterplay.

Black is never checkmating white in these two images I show. I am quite confused about the computer's evaluation.

[vagrant pelican]

g pawn push is the story of the last two world games

[dull brook]

World team bot:
-plays book moves until move 5
-randomly pushes g pawn at the worst time
-5% chance to offer draw with mate on the board
-never resigns

[dull brook]

i plugged the two positions into lichess. that stockfish seems to agree with my intuition, but also gives the two positions very similar evaluations, +4.9 and +5.4.

[fiery delta]

Hello, a bit off-topic. I would like to share info, that I drew with Francis bot 2300 ELO by repetition. Francis kept moving his Queen between c3 and c5. I kept moving my Rook between b3 and b5.

It's my first non-loss with Francis. 🙂 I didn't receive 3 crowns from a draw.

[fast thistle]

Gng why are we still reviewing ts 😭

[fast thistle]

Why would you even get 3 crowns from drawing???

Have you ever got +9 elo from drawing someone who has the same elo as you

[dull brook]

One must learn

🤣

[fiery delta]

From what I recall the reward is given for at-least a draw with the high-level bot.

[compact gale]

The IM Julien Song vs The World game started early??

20 hours left in the world turn

Sam says this was not intentional and chess.com is working on fixing this

[sour forum]

Brub

@river prawn i bet that if we lose this game i cancel all my previous bets

:3

sadly im broke now and cant dress as a furry to class

[tender grove]

that’s cheating

[sour forum]

🤣

[vagrant pelican]

How you’ve been? Long time no see

[tender grove]

new phone who dis

[river prawn]

chat we are back

[compact gale]

Game will be reset to start on May 4 as originally scheduled. Julien made a boo boo and accidentally withdrew. Chess.com is on it.

[sour forum]

Hi

[river prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/8ballcat-catboy-petting-gif-3570089946320755717

[sour forum]

As i said if we lose i cancel all of my previous bets 😈

[river prawn]

Ight maybe this time we’ll make it to move 10 without blundering

[sour forum]

Hopefully not

[river prawn]

Any ideas what he plays

[sour forum]

r we playing blackcor white

[river prawn]

Does he play Ruy Lopez or Italian

Most high level players play both but most have a clear favorite

[sour forum]

What is the link again

[river prawn]

Hmm

Insufficient evidence, he doesn’t usually play e4

Maybe he’ll play d4 once the game actually starts

[dull brook]

The French! Always surrendering!

Something something armchair history…

[vagrant pelican]

SPVCC- nvparanjape

[compact gale]

**The game has been reset by chess.com staff and will start on May 4 as originally scheduled.

--

Le match a été réinitialisé par chess.com staff et débutera le 4 mai comme prévu initialement.**

[crystal sphinx]

My suggestion: play 1. ... ♞f6

1. This will prevent from playing London.

We can also try the Nimzowitsch Defense or the Queen's Indian Defense. Both openings are not very favorable for White.

[compact gale]

This game is compromised. Our e4 votes were not reset and are being applied to Julien's new d4. Chess.com needs to fix this.

From Sam:

The team is on it and will have a DB update to clear votes before the start date in shortly 🙂

I see that my vote has been cleared.

[compact gale]

So have the votes been reset? I just voted d5 and I see e5 has 2500 votes. That many people voted and are voting this after the game start?

[river prawn]

People were allowed to change their votes but existing votes still stand

[compact gale]

Votes before our turn started were supposed to be cleared. Do you have evidence they weren't?

[river prawn]

Yes, see #our-turn

[tawny fable]

Do the votes matter on chess.com or do we discuss it here?

I’m doing nf6 for some opposite side Vienna business

[river prawn]

too late gng, d5 is going to win by a huge margin

this is the first time that the player playing against the World has explicitly stated their intentions to play an opening trap

our best chance to avoid it is 2..e6, our second best chance is 3..Nf6, bur if 3..b5 gets played, I don't see any way we avoid playing 3..b5 4.a4 c6 5.axb5 cxb5

I will quit the game if 6.Qf3 is played

because it will show that no amount of discussion or planning can stop an obvious blunder, even one shown by the opponent before the game

either way, at least we will know if this game will end quickly or not

I encourage everyone to leave the game after 6.Qf3 if it gets to that point

[feral crypt]

white to move, how do I leverage my position? I'm 1300 rated.

[sour forum]

Vro

Go to #💬〡improvement-talk or sth

[river prawn]

On move 2, we will know fairly quickly which of 2..e6 or 2..c6 has a better chance of beating 2..dxc4

It will probably be 2..e6

Our goal will then be to convince 2..c6 voters to vote for 2..e6 to stop 2..dxc4

And if we fail we still have 2..dxc4 3.e3 Nf6

Once again, we will know fairly quickly if 3..e6 or 3..Nf6 has a better chance of beating 3..b5

This time the argument is easier to make as they transpose to each other

Very nice of Julien Song to set up this immediate skill test

Either we pass it and have a good game or fail and the game is over quickly and we can quit and do something else

Unlike GothamChess

[feral crypt]

what is wrong with this channel? It's called next move discussion...?

[sour forum]

-for the julien vs the world game.

[feral crypt]

I don't know what that is

[sour forum]

Then i suggest you may leave

[feral crypt]

I don't use this discord frequently

you could be a bit less rude

[sour forum]

Im afraid this channel isnt for you :[

[feral crypt]

I get that but you don't have to be a tool about it

could have kindly directed me in the right direction

[sour forum]

Uhh

I did

?

[feral crypt]

"go to # or sth" is not very yk

[sour forum]

😔

[feral crypt]

could have just said "this channel is for XYZ not that, use this channel # instead"

[dull brook]

Lmao

Yk I kinda wish more of these matches have the master play black. Granted that’d probably lead to 1. e4 every game, which is slightly boring, but at least the master gets to control how the game goes from there on.

[river prawn]

yeah

[dull brook]

looks at queen's pawn yeah about that Vienna

lol you should've been here in the Judit game, Schliemann anyone?
(yes i know that won't work against a super GM, but it's still better than what we did!)

[tawny fable]

I was there for the Judith game but like 1 move away from checkmate

[river prawn]

wdym, i thought that was normally reached after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4

we can still do that

at least with this game we will know if The World will always blunder in the same QGA trap

[dull brook]

Wait is that called a Vienna..?

[river prawn]

Yeah, did you think I was talking about 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3, also called the Vienna?

[dull brook]

Yeah! That’s why I was confused lol.

[river prawn]

Lots of openings share names

Only so many large European cities with chess tournaments

[dull brook]

I can’t believe they named a capital after a chess opening.

I heard they even named some countries after chess openings.

[sour forum]

Yea

They even named people after chess openings

[dull brook]

They even had political systems (monarchies) based on chess! Well, minus the queens being OP part.

[sour forum]

But chess lost to checkers in the most important name of all: "checkerboards"

[hollow holly]

I don’t play QGD 😭

[river prawn]

what do you play

[sour forum]

ive been larping this game for so long

[river prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/larp-larpsahur-larp-sahur-sahur-sahurlarp-gif-1887669596747385148

[sour forum]

Girl what 😭 🙏

[hollow holly]

Nf6

[river prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/bellebaby-bowwow-dog-girl-pupgirl-puppy-gif-5275147107859499812

[sour forum]

Arf arf

[river prawn]

Good boy :3

[sour forum]

:3

[sharp magnet]

2. dxc4 isnt even bad

[river prawn]

the problem is we'd play 3.e3 b5? and lose

[sharp magnet]

lies

trust the 600s

I didnt even know this game was happening

[hollow holly]

Yuck I hate these QGD structures

We are out of options though

After Nf6 cd5 ed5 Bg5 I doubt beginners understand how to play these positions

[river prawn]

except he doesn't play cxd5 ever

also if he was going to play cxd5 he would have played Nc3 instead of Nf3

[hollow holly]

Oh he played Nf3?

Shit lol

Okay, we go ragozin? Or semi Tarrasch

Or vienna system

ragozin is very dynamic

Semi Tarrasch is very solid but drawish

Vienna system is very position

Like a triangle system slav

[river prawn]

@hollow holly vote in the move 4 polls

[hollow holly]

Ok

I just did

I don’t know if we should into the catalan

But I am going under the assumption people are reading

dxc4 Bg2 c5 0-0 Nc6 Qa4 Bd7 Qc4 b5 Qd3 c4

Theory lines

Every thing else is harmless

There is no opening trap

[loud bronze]

ke7

[tawdry pewter]

im going under the assumption most people just use stockfish and then vote

[hollow holly]

No then we would have won

[sour forum]

They didnt

Obviously

[vagrant pelican]

Welcome. I assume this is your first “vs world” game

[dull brook]

Nah. Some do cheat but most don’t. Plus—— oftentimes stockfish ideas require several moves of precision. This means that you have to cheat several moves in a row.

[fading smelt]

most people i think just see which move is the most popular and vote for it tbh

[vagrant pelican]

It’s technically a closed vote poll now

[fading smelt]

oh ye i forgot about that nvrmind

[vagrant pelican]

Well, that second part is going to be very difficult

[crude gull]

Even if Bxd2+ ends up getting played

It’s not good

But it’s not as bad as the other games

[drifting kiln]

Are we sure Bb4+ is the play? It'll be difficult to not get Bxd2 to happen especially so early in the game. I'm not caught up on chat tho so maybe yall saw the other moves lead to harder battles

It's too late now I suppose

Do we have a plan for Bxd2?

[river prawn]

I mean the alternative is the obviously bad Nc6

At this point we’re in damage control

[sour forum]

Every <insert master> vs the world game be like:
-# (magnus one doesnt count since there arent as many blind 600 elos)

[river prawn]

yeah

istg we should be allowed to block Bxd2+ from being played

every decent player knows it's bad

[sour forum]

Igor smirnov once said
"Dont engage in unnecessary trades"

Yes

[river prawn]

yeah and we're going to do it twice

once on d2 and once on e4 because Bxd2+ Nbxd2 makes the e4 pawn break trivial

[river prawn]

always nice to recommend crazy lines against things Julien Song isn't going to play

[vagrant pelican]

5… Be7 has no chance of winning

[crude gull]

Bxd2+ is better than Nc6

But I don’t think it’s close

[hollow holly]

Bd2 is basically 2 results

Lose or draw

For black

Like holy crap

You don’t need to take everything

[sour forum]

600 elo instinct

Is

To trade

For absolutely no reason whatsoever, without any calculations

[river prawn]

We’re going to end up playing 5…Bxd2+ 6.Nbxd2 O-O 7.Bg2 Nc6 8.O-O dxc4 9.Nxc4 Bd7 or some junk

[dull brook]

I mean to think on the bright side

the less pieces on the board, the less chance for blunders... right???

lol

[river prawn]

Doesn’t matter if you already have a losing position with just small mistakes

[dull brook]

At least we don’t get the red popup in game review 🤩

Lily you gotta think of the small Ws

[hollow holly]

These beginner are really testing my abilities to not say slurs

Like ong

Omg

[tawny fable]

Why do we need next move polls when we have the chess.com website already? Can’t the future poll thingy be put into the chess.com website?

[vagrant pelican]

No, I don’t think so

[compact gale]

No way to pin poll msgs using emojis

[river prawn]

<@&745328830649991179>

someone got hacked

thanks

[inner iron]

The next move polls are a general assessment of candidate moves and an "initial" poll to get a feel for what people would like to play without it being detrimental to the game. Someone could potentially vote for a "blunder" and this initial poll helps to prevent these types of blunders from happening. In addition, they are useful for coming up with a consensus vote that we as a team would like to recommend. The chess.com polls are final answer polls where once you've voted, you cannot take it back... It's done... while these discord next move polls are to help with discussion and are able to be changed if someone changes their mind, a novelty is found, a good candidate move is found that wasn't initally looked into, etc.

[vagrant pelican]

Nc6 can’t be stopped

[compact gale]

What move is 2nd?

[vagrant pelican]

c6

But far away

c6 and b6 are splitting votes. But even if they unite, Nc6 would easily win eventually

[compact gale]

I think Nc6 is not that bad and c6 is not really any better.

b6 is better

Nbd7 is better

[river prawn]

There’s no consensus on Discord

I’m going with Re8, aiming for the e5 pawn break

Since the c5 pawn break is never happening

Close vote

[sour forum]

This game is like kinda dead now

[river prawn]

idk

We’ll see how many people vote

There’s a good chance of Re8 wins we go for e5 too early and get destroyed

8..Re8 9.Rc1 e5 10.dxe5 Nxe5 11.Nxe5 Rxe5 12.cxd5 Nxd5 13.Nc4 +-

And there is no way low Elo players see that when voting for e5

Granted it’s a deeper tactic than most of the tactics that have doomed the World

The reason why this works is because there’s no pawn on c6 to defend d5

I voted for Re8 but b6 is better from a practical standpoint

Although with b6 we just get slowly crushed

[sour forum]

idk what these lines are, but seeing that theres like only 200 people left we can advertise this game on discord and overwhelm the blind 500 elos with our own slightly less blind 500 elos

[river prawn]

Possibly

[hollow holly]

I don't agree with b6 because it weakens the c file

At some ppoint I want to set up a carlsbad structure if he takes on d5 with Ne7 c6

[dull brook]

bro why is there always like 5% of people offering draws bruh

what is with people just randomly offering draws 😭

[river prawn]

The goal of b6 is Bb7

Our position isn’t actually that bad

We reroute the knight to g6

Play Qd6-Rfe8-Rad8

Set up c5

[river prawn]

@gusty robin what other move should we prepare for

[hollow holly]

IT IS THAT BAD

[river prawn]

how

there's no e4 pawn break anymore

[hollow holly]

Well for one , Bxd2,

2. Our Bb7 is kinda bad now,

And Rc1 is coming

Idk

[river prawn]

Qd7-Rac8-Rfe8-Ne7 and eventually c5

[hollow holly]

Is a beginner gonna play qd7😭

[river prawn]

Where else does the queen go

Beginners will move the queen eventually

[hollow holly]

Idk do they understand the point of any moves lol

Like Ne7 is probably impossible

[river prawn]

We don’t need them to

We just need them to split their vote

[hollow holly]

I mean Bxd2 shows that no one reads this lol

[river prawn]

That was different

We don’t need 50%, we only need 20%

[hollow holly]

Smart

[compact gale]

I played 10... Ne7 (lichess players db with good stats for us), but .. Qd6 also has good stats (too few games tho) and has more votes in this game.

10... Bb7 stats not so good for us.

[crude gull]

Wtf why Re8, does nobody see Rxc6?

[river prawn]

maybe they see Rxc6 Bxc6 Qxc6 Rxe2, but even then everyone should know bishop and knight are better than rook and pawn

good thing is after Qd6 we have a few safe moves as we move our rooks into position

[compact gale]

No, many don't understand that threat for several reasons. 6 point "equal" exchange. Overestimation of loss of rook.

[drifting kiln]

Anyone know what to play after
14..dxe4 15.Ng5?
Maybe something like 15... Na5 or Qg6? I wouldn't be surprised if the vote was split between f5, Nd8, Nb8, and the two I mentioned so we might be able to sway this a bit

So far Qg6 doesn't look too bad to me