next-move-discussion

[fiery delta]

It's OK, that we have polls for 5. O-O and other, possible options. I am going to listen to the advice if Judit plays something different, because I don't know Spanish game that much. For now I get some theory from the book (5. .. Be7). If this line is played, I have some reference from the book.

[river prawn]

should i avoid putting goofy options like that in polls just because they show up in my databases?

[heavy ravine]

Depends on the situation.

[river prawn]

wdym

[heavy ravine]

The options aren't necessarily goofy. Some moves(like 5.Nc3) have their own ideas.

[river prawn]

no

im not talking about goofy moves that white might play

im talking about goofy options on the polls

like 5.O-O d5

that actually has a name tho

i forgor what it is

[heavy ravine]

oh... Yeah, generally. People have this tendency of voting for the goofy option instead of the actual good move. Like If I make a poll after e4.

e5
c5
e6
c6
d5
g5💔

Trolls are likely to vote for the bad move. And trolls can sometimes outnumber real votes. Which can mess things up

[river prawn]

there are less trolls here than on chess.com

i hope

[heavy ravine]

Yeah... So goofy options can stay(if it's true)

As long as people aren't actually voting for the goofy options because they think it's a good move, it's fine

[sour forum]

What about a5? Also goofy

[fiery delta]

I would not play b5 after Nc3. There's a risk of sacrificing light piece for 2 pawns and breaking our defence. I hope that such situation won't take place.

[sharp magnet]

wont happen

[river prawn]

No way is that a good idea

[sour forum]

If we made an opening mistake before move 9 i will wear cat ears to class

[river prawn]

nya

[sour forum]

Fr

Where do i buy cat ears tho

[river prawn]

https://giphy.com/gifs/dance-dancing-catboy-6vZOpkGGBmkrcEHJC2

this is you fr fr

[sour forum]

Nvm studying statistics rn

[river prawn]

just search online

[sour forum]

Hell naw

[river prawn]

https://giphy.com/gifs/furry-femboy-OahphIy7RjNhJQcikp

[river prawn]

this got me muted on another server

[sour forum]

Guess either i dont have to or i make a set out of cardboard

[sour forum]

HELL NAH (is that a girl)

[river prawn]

idk

[sour forum]

Nonbinary furries 🥀

[river prawn]

uwu

[sour forum]

Why r u doing this to me i have exam this month i need to revise

[river prawn]

go revise

[fiery delta]

OK, I played a game with the computer recently, where I captured his 2 pawns sacrificing one minor piece, on the king-side with devastating attack. Sometimes it's good.

I defeated all free-plan bots on each level with 3 crowns (no help).

Except Francis, although got winning position against him recently. Even that I had advantage, I would have to find Knight sacrifice to grab his Rook. It was pointed by analysis after the game. I did not found it in move ~50.

Just an addition to my comment. Look how he pursued me to exchange my Queen with his Rook. 🙂 I had much advantage two moves earlier (Sorry for off-topic).

[sour forum]

I suspect after 5.O-O then 5... Nxe4 6.Re1 f5

We like ponds yk?

[river prawn]

6.Re1 is rare

[sour forum]

?

[river prawn]

6.d4 is way more common

yes

you're thinking of 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.O-O Nxe4 5.Re1

this is different

[sour forum]

Why is Re1 now unplayable

[river prawn]

6.Re1 Nc5

[sour forum]

7.Nxe5 then what?

f6?

[river prawn]

7..Nxe5 8.Rxe5+ Be7

[sour forum]

Wait cant we just kick the rook?

After she move?

[river prawn]

what

[sour forum]

Duh my brain aint braining

[river prawn]

https://giphy.com/gifs/weird-spongebob-oblivious-THj5QURAqrfyPcblu4

[sour forum]

This, she skewers the pond, wait cant we jst play f5! Defending the knight?

[river prawn]

no

6.Re1 f5 7.d3 Nc5 8.Bxc6 dxc6 9.Nxe5 and 10.Qh5+ is coming

we are cooked

this is all pointless

because she's not going to play 6.Re1

[sharp magnet]

just because you beat a 600 bot by sacrificing a piece for 2 pawns wont mean judit beats us by sacrificing a piece for 2 pawns on the completeyl opposite side of the board than where our king will end up

[fiery delta]

It was not 600 ELO bot, it was Francis 2300 (or Nora which is 2200). I made a slight mistake in that match, and didn't win it eventually.

According to our match with Judit, I just wanted to point the possibility of such sacrifice after Nc3, which might be devastating in some circumstances.

I'm also sure, like you, that Judit won't go into it if we play b5 after Nc3. That was not my point.

Nevertheless, 5. O-O is most probable. Nf6 is winning by 2100+ votes, but b5 is also massively considered.

[buoyant blade]

if there was ever a time for black to play f5, it was on move 3 or 4 going into the Jaenisch gambit

f5 will not be a good move for some time now

[potent cedar]

is there a way to set c.com or discord up to get a notification of some sort when Judit makes a move ?

[fiery delta]

I'm not sure why 5. O-O Be7 has no realistic chance of winning. This variant is described thoroughly in my book. I hope that young voters just study chess. There was some person that said to study Ruy Lopez. I like chess theory very much, unlike my Father. 🙂

[vagrant pelican]

Just going based on how people voted in Divis game. Lot of people want to put the bishop on a very active diagonal and esp pointing towards white king. It’s almost as if 0-0 attracts the bishop to c5

[sour forum]

Low elo ppl used to italian which means bishop there by default

Idk if that just me

[potent cedar]

I think it does have a decent chance, but all depends on low elo folk

[river prawn]

@vagrant pelican how long ago

someone relay the votes

[vagrant pelican]

Just now I think

Less than 10 min

[river prawn]

almost exactly the same as the ElDivis game

[vagrant pelican]

Uggh

[river prawn]

the only real difference is some vote shifting from Bc5 to Be7, about 3%

[river prawn]

I'm calling it

[potent cedar]

% not really changing 😥

[river prawn]

5..Bc5 will win just like in the ElDivis game

[lost cosmos]

B5 go go go go

[crude gull]

I like Nxe4 in my daily games but I gotta agree with Lily it’s too dangerous here

Bc5 is fine

[lost cosmos]

What in the world is Bc5

I’ve never heard of it

[river prawn]

I'm voting Be7

since clearly Bc5 will win

[crude gull]

Neo-Arkhangelsk

I remember I had put it in an engine after Divis game. It was not bad

[lost cosmos]

I don’t think it’s popular in the master database

Cuz I’ve never heard of it

[crude gull]

Not really and I also doubt people are voting for it because they know theory

[lost cosmos]

Honestly we might transpose anyway

[river prawn]

it's fine

the issue is that nobody in the chat suggested it

[lost cosmos]

b5 is about to take over Mxe4

[crude gull]

In lichess masters’ database it’s 4th most popular move behind Be7, b5 and Nxe4

[river prawn]

we are voting Be7

since our vote doesn't matter

[lost cosmos]

Be7 is out already

[river prawn]

yeah, so are the other moves

[lost cosmos]

No chance of winning

[crude gull]

And percentages are
27% white win
50% draw
22% black win

[river prawn]

share the results again

[lost cosmos]

I need more 600s to attack the bishop

[river prawn]

there is one saving grace

i have no doubt that 5..Bc5 6.d3 O-O would win

except when ElDivis played 6.d3, that's a rare move

6.c3 is much more common

keep sharing the move totals

[potent cedar]

Judit surely aware of that though😥

[river prawn]

I'm not so sure

the ElDivis game had about the same number of voters as have already voted

it's not a well-known game

[crude gull]

We could technically try to make b5 overtake Bc5

IMO not worth it, Bc5 is fine

[river prawn]

not even close

I will be voting Be7 in protest because Bc5 will win

[potent cedar]

Have any dummies mentioned Eldivis in the public chat?

[river prawn]

nobody except me

wait

i thought you meant the private chat

no

nobody knows about that game

[potent cedar]

Ok thats good

[river prawn]

we can't let her know that Chat didn't support Bc5

keep sharing the move totals

[potent cedar]

Yh thats true

[lost cosmos]

It’s totally worth it

We should do it

[crude gull]

Why? It’s not that much better. Only as a test to see how much they see the chat

[lost cosmos]

Not that much better

[crude gull]

It’s not, look at the stats

[river prawn]

even if we did it wouldn't be enough

[potent cedar]

yh Id take 50% draw man ...

[river prawn]

I'm voting Be7

[crude gull]

I would too, but I really doubt we’ll make it

[river prawn]

because Bc5 is winning no matter what

so i will vote my conscience

[lost cosmos]

Do the master database. I don’t look at players

[crude gull]

This is the master database

[lost cosmos]

Wait really

[crude gull]

Yes

This is the players’ one

[river prawn]

I'm voting Be7

[crude gull]

Okay

Do it

[river prawn]

perhaps we can influence a close vote later, but this isn't it

[lost cosmos]

Oh yeah that’s the master database

Still b5 is better

But I agree that we might transpose

[fiery delta]

I voted Be7 I see that the current vote results are pretty even. I hope Bc5 is not bad.

[crude gull]

Wdym pretty even

[lost cosmos]

The structure is still a bit different which is why I’m a bit pissed off

[fiery delta]

31% 21% 19% 13% which means 362, 245, 218, 148 is pretty even (uniform) distribution.

[lost cosmos]

Honestly I might have done Bc5 in some casual bullet or blitz games but I’ve never played it in a serious game

[river prawn]

Bc5 is okay

the issue is we get blasted with c3-d4 because we take on d4

[lost cosmos]

Just drop the bishop back

[potent cedar]

Yh but then why put it there in the first place

[lost cosmos]

You also need to drop the bishop back in archangel

[potent cedar]

Unless we drop to b6, idk if thats decent

[lost cosmos]

It’s just that they messed up the move order

Dropping the bishop back is fine

[lost cosmos]

Your supposed to

[lost cosmos]

Bc5 is gonna win then

[potent cedar]

Yh

Imma stop posting scs

[lost cosmos]

Not ideal but it’s meh

Whatever

[potent cedar]

Yh I just try avoid those positions cause i always seem to get squashed, but i guess thats a me-problem

[fiery delta]

Bc5 is a leader now, but I think that the distribution can still change a little.

This move looks OK to me too, we're developing remaining piece on king-side. Honestly I like it.

[lost cosmos]

Nc3 would be a pretty weak move by her

It would not be the most positionally accurate move

[river prawn]

probably not going to happen

I expect 6.c3

80% of games

6.d3 is possible and if that happens we are cooked

start the campaign for 6.d3 b5!

we can't let 6.d3 O-O win

I expect 6.c3 tho

[lost cosmos]

I’d just do 6…b5 and transpose

[river prawn]

we should play 6..b5 against basically everything

[lost cosmos]

6…b5 then d6

d4 Bb6

[turbid ravine]

Do you think that we should do a poll for 6.Nxe5

?

[river prawn]

no

it's in the message

[fiery delta]

Bishop on c5 is on very active position IMO and also can hide in case.

[lost cosmos]

The drawback of our move order is that white can put the bishop on c2 in one move if she wants

[turbid ravine]

My bad

[lost cosmos]

With archangel, white’s bishop needs to make a pit stop on b3

[river prawn]

Then we have to strike with 7..d5!

We also need to play 6.c3 b5 7.Bb3 d6

A lot of low Elo players will try to vote for 7..O-O

[lost cosmos]

This would just be archangel, we would be back in 100% good shape

[river prawn]

And then after 8.d4 exd4? 9.cxd4 Be7 10.e5 we are cooked no matter where we move our knight

Because 8.d4 Ba7 is never winning

[fiery delta]

d4 square will be protected by ours 3 pieces: pawn, knight and bishop. I see no breaktrough yet. Bb6 is also option for hiding.

[river prawn]

it's also defended 3 times

low elo database

there is absolutely no way we stop exd4

[fiery delta]

OK, I see. After c3 it's defended also by White's pawn (apart Knight and Queen).

IMO white's minor pieces on queen-side lack in development in this position.

[river prawn]

white can deal with that after pushing black all the way back with the center pawns

black is cooked

[potent cedar]

How tf did we manage to get a6 with these folk

[river prawn]

i have no idea

look

Bc5 isn't bad

but I know we're going to screw up soon when d4 comes

and that's when I'll leave

what's the point in making recommendations if no one follows them

[potent cedar]

Sometimes Idk why we do them now

😭😭😭

Ah well

Ill stop moaning

And see tomorrow how it all is

[river prawn]

I already know exactly how we're going to screw up

c3-d4 and we'll take on d4 and lose

any decent player knows you're not supposed to do that

[fiery delta]

I think that c3 preparation for d4 wastes a tempo and disables Knight development etc. But this is only my point of view. I don't analyze the game database at this point.

[crude gull]

Only 2 games btw with exd4 in Masters’ database

[river prawn]

because it's ass

[crude gull]

1 draw 1 white win

[river prawn]

you're not even supposed to play O-O one move earlier either

[crude gull]

It is, we’re just giving up the center for nothing lol

[river prawn]

yeah, this is exactly how we will lose

[crude gull]

That’s not that bad, provided you don’t follow up with exd4 and instead find Ba7

[river prawn]

which is never going to happen

we need to play b5, d6, and O-O in that order

and not take on d4 at any point

hmm

there is actually one line where it's safe to take on d4 eventually

[fiery delta]

Our d-file pawn is still there - and yes I would suggest d6 in such position.

I see that exd4 is not good, because we lose the center and allow pushing of e4 pawn.

[river prawn]

the important thing is playing b5 right away

[potent cedar]

If it takes u that long to think of it the world will never figure it out though😥

[river prawn]

if you look, all of the options for move 6 have 6..b5

and all of them are leading

[potent cedar]

Hmmmm ok

Its something

[river prawn]

we cannot screw up like in the ElDivis game and allow Bxc6 dxc6 Nxe5

[fiery delta]

If Be7 and Nxe4 votes combine it would win the voting. But as I said, the Bc5 looks quite OK for me and don't lose at this point (IMO).

[crude gull]

I think it’s unlikely she plays d3 instead of c3

[river prawn]

I actually think Bc5 is best from a practical standpoint

ain't nobody understanding Nb8/Bf8 in the Closed variations

the open is just asking to blunder our knight

and the Marshall Attack, i mean I don't think I even need to explain why

yeah 5..Bc5 6.c3 O-O 7.d4 Ba7 is actually fine for us

except there's no way we play 7..Ba7

5..Bc5 6.c3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 is the only reasonable line

but then 8.d4 Bb6 9.a4 requires us to find either 9..Bb7 or 9..Rb8

and that's not happening

I will stay until the first obvious mistake

and 5..Bc5 is not one

[crude gull]

9…Bg4 had nice stats too

[fiery delta]

OK, so hiding this Bishop is a good option for us in such case. I also see it. We have so many good responses still in the following moves.

I'm actually quite surprised that such good move wins the voting at this stage and the other good moves are high too. It could be worse, probably.

I wonder how we deal with that d4 square problem.

[river prawn]

i guess

[crude gull]

Main issue for me in this line is that we’ll most likely play 8… exd4

[river prawn]

that's going to happen no matter which line we pick

[crude gull]

I think it’s actually slightly better in this line

Not good

[river prawn]

i don't even care

[crude gull]

But better than the other one

[river prawn]

when we play 8..exd4 despite the entire chat begging to retreat the bishop, I will quit

[crude gull]

Fair

[river prawn]

see that's the best part about looking at databases

you know not just what she's going to play, but how we're going to screw up

6.d3 O-O? is the most common move at low Elo

mainly because white almost never plays 7.Bxc6

[fiery delta]

exd4 is a strategy mistake in my opinion. I think that it won't be played. Ours Nf6 and Bc5 are both strategy moves so I'm optimistic.

[crude gull]

Main issue is, nobody in the chat advocated for Bc5

And I doubt people want to play the Arkhangelsk

They just see a move they like and vote

We’ll see but I’m pessimistic too

[river prawn]

exactly, that's why i have no hope

remember, we're at virtually the same vote percentages as the ElDivis game

Be7 is much higher though, that's good

looks like chat can swing the vote by about 6-8 percent

we can influence a close vote

[fiery delta]

I see. Be7, b5 and Nxe4 all got similar amount of votes. Bc5 is still a developing move in this position. I understand that it wasn't recommended. Good move options divided voters. These are common variations.

Ah, people should explain their vote. This is second rule of this game.

[river prawn]

but when exd4 is an option it will win by a huge margin and we will then get steamrolled

[crude gull]

Keep in mind discord was recommending Nxe4 in Divis game

So it’s not that different

[river prawn]

ah

this time the discord recommended Be7

[crude gull]

Yeah it’s like you said, chat influences about 5-7%.

[river prawn]

that could make a difference

it will be interesting to see how this game progresses

so far we've been using the ElDivis game as a benchmark for vote percentages

but when Judit Polgar plays 6.c3, we won't have that

[fiery delta]

In my book about openings the 5. d4 move option has some theory. But here we have 5. O-O and in next move we protect d4 square with our bishop. I'm not that experienced, but I can't see that losing move-sequence yet. I think that our Bc5 won't trap a bishop or make us lose. Need to check more.

I would play Be7, like I voted. Bc5 is "confident" move, putting it on very active place but with some dangers, that can be avoided fortunately.

[river prawn]

we're going to screw up in some obvious way no matter what we play

[solar wadi]

Bc5 is a dubious line and the low elo players clearly didn't listen to the people who wanted Nxe4

I don't care whether b5 or Nxe4 wins, but I don't want the vote to be split and allow Bc5 to win

[river prawn]

no it isn't

[fiery delta]

I completed all the polls for next move. I voted b5 only when Judit plays dangerous c3.

[river prawn]

we should probably play it right away

that way we don't have it as an option later to split the vote

[solar wadi]

Chess.com should introduce ranked choice voting for vote chess

The first move to get an absolute majority (>50% of the total vote) will be played after the votes are counted

This way, we don't get a situation where two moves are preferred by a group of players over one other move but that undesirable move gets played because of a vote split

[river prawn]

exactly

chess.com says they have things they'll implement in future vote chess games

also im not sure that would help that much

there are just too many low elo players who don't read the chat

[solar wadi]

It would help if there are 3-4 competitive moves at the top, though more would negate the effect of ranked choice

[river prawn]

there should be expert recommendations

like in the Kasparov vs the World game

[solar wadi]

It's unlikely that more than 4 moves are competitive though

[fiery delta]

2 step voting is interesting. Also b5 is getting 2nd rank now.

[river prawn]

or at the very least just stop obvious blunders

interesting

[solar wadi]

Even runoff is better than plurality voting

[river prawn]

the raw margin between Bc5 and b5 is not increasing

[solar wadi]

It's currently a 1:1 ratio

This isn't helping

If Bc5 and b5 were the only two moves offered, I think b5 would win 60-40

[river prawn]

I'd rather have Bc5 than b5 if those were my only two options and I was in control of the game

but given who the other players are, b5 is clearly more practical

[solar wadi]

We're probably not in control of the game

If I was in control of the game, I would play Nxe4, knowing that there would be no blundering

[river prawn]

yeah

I used to play that

I switched to the Berlin Defense tho

[fiery delta]

Be7 even that on 4th place, still gets 500 votes. Same for Nxe4 - 3rd place. I'm wondering what people will play when there's a hard choice to be made, like after c3. But I'm almost sure they will vote for something OK. Given Judit Polgar continues to play friendly.

[lost cosmos]

c3 b5

anyway, this is boring

[river prawn]

honestly i would rather play this move order

avoids 5..b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 7.a4

because you know we would play 7..bxa4?

[sour forum]

What kind of voting system can stop braindead idiots from voting anyways? Unless you limit the Elo or somehow prune off people who dont read the chat

[sour forum]

Unless its goes like the gothamchess game and she baits us, we will definitely take cuz knowing 500s too well they cant seem to understand the concept of undermining / deflection

[river prawn]

bruh that wasn't bait by GothamChess

that was just a good move

bait was what Magnus Carlsen did

right near the beginning of the game

[sour forum]

Position? I havent checked that

[river prawn]

Ok actually never mind it wasn’t a trap

[buoyant blade]

The format of Kasparov vs. The World was probably the most successful. All I know about it is that MSN recruited several young masters to help with recommending moves.

[river prawn]

We can’t even get out of theory without screwing up

Against Kasparov, the World played a sharp exchange sacrifice novelty

You’re not going to find a novelty like that in 2026

Even Topalov Lite isn’t a novelty

I mean maybe there’s something in the Anti-Moscow

Or the Poisoned Pawn

But good luck

[sour forum]

Bigners dont know theory in the first place, "bishop to c file" is purely instinctive (i do it all the time)

[river prawn]

It’s playing it like an Italian

Because that’s what beginners know

[sour forum]

Yea

[buoyant blade]

The main problem which needs to be solved is communicating to the voters what the most promising moves are.

[river prawn]

There’s nothing wrong with Bc5

The issue is no one in the chat wanted it

[sour forum]

Which is impossble currently, unless the most upvoted comment is displayed prominently and not the chess board alone

[river prawn]

You need a Reddit-style comment ranking system

With replies

[sour forum]

Yea

[river prawn]

But most importantly, you need to require people to read the chat

[sour forum]

We all know that

[buoyant blade]

Honestly I think the simplest solution to at the least maintain a minimum quality of play is to display on the board a move recommended by each of the world team coaches, visible before voting

[hollow holly]

eh i saw

i dont really agree with the moeller

but its fine

[fiery delta]

I noticed that the Be7 move is not shown with the arrow on the chess-board, despite it's on 4th place! d6 and d5 are shown. This must be a bug/error.

[sharp magnet]

what did you vote for?

cause I'm not seeing the arrow either due to the bishop already being on the square

[fiery delta]

I voted for Be7, but the Bishop was on initial Bf8 square. But maybe you're right, that's because I voted for Be7.

[sharp magnet]

so we apparently played Bc5

[crude gull]

O-O is leading

It’s not a bad move

But after d4 we have to find Ba7

[river prawn]

Yeah that’s never happening

[fiery delta]

b5 won the poll and I'm going to vote this move. But as I can see we can ignore c3 as it's not immediate threat and just do castling.

Some people voted O-O in the poll too.

[crude gull]

b5 has better stats

O-O is fine if, after she plays d4 next move, we respond with Ba7

Which, I must agree with Lily, is very unlikely

[fiery delta]

Equal result 305 305 at this time. I voted for b5.

[crude gull]

312-306 in favor of castling

[median wraith]

So Judit played c3. This move does a few things:

1. Opens up her Queen's vision
2. Provides a get-away square for the Bishop (stopping the threat of trapping it)
3. She may be preparing to break in the center with d4 or attack our bishop on c5 with b4

There may be other ideas I cannot see, these are just my observations.

Castling is probably the most logical follow-up to our previous move, something that will likely be top voted.

[river prawn]

Let’s be real here, we’re just putting off the inevitable

There’s no way 6.c3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.d4 Bb6 has any better of a chance of winning than 6.c3 O-O 7.d4 Ba7

[crude gull]

I think 8… exd4 in the first line is at least slightly better than 7… exd4 in the 2nd one

[river prawn]

Maybe

But both are terrible for black

Castling is bad because we have to find 6.c3 O-O 7.d4 Ba7!

[crude gull]

Yeah they’re not good

[river prawn]

But also if we play 6..b5, then we have to find 7.Bb3 d6! 8.d4 Bb6!

Either way, we have to avoid taking a center pawn and there is no way that is happening

[potent cedar]

can u post the vote

or rather what should i/we vote for

[outer lance]

b5 is the official recommendation on discord and it can only realistically lose to O-O, see current totals below:

O-O = 523
b5 = 516

[potent cedar]

ok voted

catching up

[outer lance]

🆒

[river prawn]

it's continually 5-10 votes behind

but the margin isn't increasing

542-539 with b5 leading

you have got to be kidding me

it's going to be a shitshow like this on the next move too

[potent cedar]

winning now

[river prawn]

because 6..b5 7.Bb3 we once again have to avoid 7..O-O and vote for 7..d6

[potent cedar]

wtf it levelled up now we are 7 down again 😭

[river prawn]

no

[potent cedar]

ooooh b5 winning again

[river prawn]

601-592

largest lead yet

I think soon we will see one of the moves start to form a clear lead

that's what happened in the GothamChess game when the early votes were close

this isn't going to matter at all when we play 6.c3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.d4 exd4 and lose in pretty much the exact same way

or 6.c3 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.d4 exd4

[fiery delta]

b5 is really nice move that allows our Bishop to retreat on better square and behind the Pawn which is much better.

If people decided to play Bc5 in previous move, they should understand that it's on active, but dangerous square, especially now, after c3.

I have put the recommended next moves after b5 and O-O on the game chat.

[river prawn]

I will still fiercly defend b5

626-616

642-632

[fiery delta]

On the other hand O-O almost ends our development (except c8 Bishop) and this way of thinking has much sense. But then we have to deal with the threat on our Bishop and much stronger b4 and d4 squares. I think that people will vote for retreat if there's a need.

[wraith ravine]

I mean looking at master games, O-O doesn't look too bad

very drawish

[potent cedar]

master games haha, we got the world messing us up as much as possible

[median wraith]

But we are not masters 🫠

😂😂

The world will mess this up somehow regardless

[wraith ravine]

I mean none of the moves played in those games seem too hard to find

[median wraith]

Yeah, let's do our best is what I say. Voted b5 btw

[wraith ravine]

Not harder than the moves in b5 anyway

Yeah I also just vote b5

[river prawn]

676-664

[wraith ravine]

but O-O doesn't look bad at all

[river prawn]

somehow? I know exactly how they'll mess up

oh 6..O-O is fine

but only if you play 7.d4 Ba7

and do you really think we could resist 7..exd4?

[wraith ravine]

That's a good point

it would be close at least

[river prawn]

That's why we're going for 6..b5, because we know all the low elo players can't be trusted

[wraith ravine]

but yeah

[river prawn]

no, it would be 30-40% margin

like we're talking 60%-20%

[potent cedar]

at least d5 only has 5% vote share now

[river prawn]

695-685

[fiery delta]

In my opinion both b5 and O-O moves are strategic and it's OK that these moves fight. Some novice players would choose to introduce major pieces or break the center at this point.

If b5 will win, I'll be happy, since we have 1 tempo for other move (for example d6) and then Bishop retreat on good square.

But I won't be sad if the O-O option win, though it may be harder to play.

[potent cedar]

this is just getting annoying now

watching those numbers torturously follow each other

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh

😭 😭 😭

[fiery delta]

b5 has above +10 vote advantage versus O-O. There are 22 hours of vote time remaining. I would rather not repeat recommendations all the time please, as they are visible. The chat can become unreadable.

[river prawn]

806-806

[river prawn]

no, we spam b5

if O-O wins, after 7.d4 I will spam 7..Ba7 but I know 7..exd4 will win. When that happens, I will resign from my position as poll leader

there's no way we can hold this for another 22 hours

[wide wharf]

I agree that there is an issue with getting d6 played after b5. A lot of lobbying may be needed.

[river prawn]

woah, what just happened

924-897

yeah no we're cooked

[cunning mortar]

@river prawn vro what do you mean "our last chance" are we already cooked

[river prawn]

no

but we have to somehow ram through a move that is almost never played at low elo

and that's among players that actually play this as black

[cunning mortar]

Surely it's good

[river prawn]

6..O-O is fine

but she's going to play 7.d4

[cunning mortar]

I'm gonna have a look at the position

[river prawn]

and 7..Ba7 has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning

we'll play 7..exd4? and lose, basically on the spot

[cunning mortar]

d4 doesn't look too comfortable for us

[cunning mortar]

After d4, would Bd6 be better

[river prawn]

god no

then dxe5 forks the bishop and knight

[cunning mortar]

Oh yeah that exist

I'm in the middle of class my chess is at its finest

[river prawn]

i hit the comment limit

not that it matters

6..b5 has lost

[fiery delta]

1015-1049

[surreal cipher]

they could at least implement a reminder for people that there is a chat or make it more obvious it exists

[fiery delta]

I just not quite sure if spamming the chat is a good method to influent the better move. For me it's very hard to read. Just put a recommendation once maybe twice a hour?

[river prawn]

no

because anyone decent is already voting for b5

you need a way to influence the brainrotted kids

[surreal cipher]

one page of chat goes by in 10 minutes

[river prawn]

look

we have one last chance here

7.d4 Ba7

and there is no way in hell that wins

vote chess isn't for everyone

all the 500 Elo brainrot kids should not be allowed to participate

[surreal cipher]

a rating minimum would actually be fantastic

[river prawn]

I called this coming a mile away

i predicted Bc5 would win because of the ElDivis game

i predicted there is no way we would be able to resist taking on d4 based on Lichess statistics

also O-O leads over b5 at low level on lichess

[fiery delta]

I understand - yet still prefer for the chat cleaner. One page goes in 10 minutes for intense discussion.

[river prawn]

U1000 lichess database for move 6

the percentages are basically that

look

even if b5 had won

we still would have played exd4 later when d4 was played

the dumbest part is we're still fine from an objective standpoint

6..O-O has 356 games in the Masters database

but I know 7.d4 exd4 will get played and then the game is over

everyone in the chat knows that

now I will still stick around just to see how much 7..exd4 wins by

but once we play that move, I know Judit Polgar will know she's playing against a bunch of 1000 elo players

didn't even make it out of theory smh

[fiery delta]

Look that if chat is readable, people will ... actually read it! There are still 21 hours left. O-O is getting slight advantage of 30+ votes but it's not anyone's fault. I repeat - if chat is readable people tend to read it.

The time zones are also important. Still much people going to vote. And decent players still have chance to vote.

[river prawn]

maybe

1145-1123 now

[surreal cipher]

hopefully everyone in the middle east is rated 1500+

[river prawn]

or more of them read the chat

I can't post any more in the chat i hit the comment limit

other people spam b5

[surreal cipher]

how long does that last?

[river prawn]

i don't know

there are several comment limits

[cold badge]

Lwk, we should start a dm whipping process for this

If everyone dm's 5-10 people saying that they should vote for the move we want, we can flood the vote

[fiery delta]

1171 - 1190. It's a slight advantage of 19 votes!

[cold badge]

1197-1178

We're within 20 votes

[drifting kiln]

1335-1290

45 votes

do you think we'd be allowed to ask people in main chat here?

like tell them that this is important maybe

[river prawn]

wouldn't make a difference

they're not interested

[fiery delta]

The margin is increasing, unfortunately. More people want to play the 6. ... O-O. If this move is sensible, there's no need to worry much.

The advantages are:

1. we've got king castled, protected,
2. Rook can enter the game in just next move.

Ba7 may look a little passive though and limits our Bishop to just 1 diagonal (but the b8 square is available too), but keeps it active.

I mentioned already, that people who voted for Bc5 should understand that exd4 must not be played, and this Bishop must retreat.

If O-O move seems to win, we should just inform people on what play next. Describe the plan. Before the next voting.

[surreal cipher]

it is a sensible move, but it will be very hard to convince anyone to vote for the correct moves after compared to b5

[remote totem]

are we cooked

[river prawn]

yes

because there is no way in hell Ba7 wins over exd4

it's a weird situation to be in

we lost the vote on this move but the move that was played is perfectly fine

except it relies on a move that will never get played

so we know we're cooked

[river prawn]

dw i can post now

nvm lol

well that was two weeks wasted

[drifting kiln]

margin has increased but is still very very close

[river prawn]

no

it hasn't

[tawny abyss]

I give up, I'm leaving the role

[river prawn]

it's actually decreased

look at #next-move-polls

it went from 85 to 64 in a 58 minute span

[pearl rover]

I was gone for a couple of days, what’s happening?

[river prawn]

we're cooked

there are two good moves in the position

one of them requires us to vote for two moves with a low chance of winning

one of them requires us to vote for one move with a near zero chance of winning

Low Elo players that don't read the chat picked the second, narrowly

[pearl rover]

Why was Bc5 played?

[river prawn]

low elo players not reading the chat

and they're about to doom us

literally no way to stop 6..O-O 7.d4 exd4?

[crude gull]

Cause it seems like a good idea for someone who doesn’t know theory

And it kinda is a good idea

[river prawn]

the only good move is 7..Ba7

but that's never winning

[sour forum]

(Read: someone who plays the italian 99/100 games and doesnt know any other openings beside traps)

[sour forum]

Tell them exd4 is a blunder

Spam the question mark

Say after Re1 we lose

[silent cloak]

Let's create a team that will flood the forum with comments read Ba7 for 48 hours.

[potent cedar]

ok imma span the chat with this next time

dw @river prawn, im in no hurry to do the votes, just wanna try the experience
(would be great to do it if chess.com would actually implement any of the recommendations that folk suggested here😭 )

[river prawn]

Lichess and ICCF databases are the same

7..Bb6 is probably just as good as 7..Ba7

But 7..Ba7 has way more support in high level games

It’s a Hail Mary shot

[potent cedar]

yh actually i might edit it to remove Bb6 so it doesnt split the vote

[surreal cipher]

makes more sense

[river prawn]

I’m questioning that

But I think lying is necessary

The low Elo players are brain dead

[potent cedar]

I'm looking at it as being truthful (just as it happens not showing the whole truth)

Also you could probably get this pic just by playing with the filters to remove a couple of theBb6 games

[river prawn]

idk

[wooden sigil]

Once again

WE ARE COOKED

[potent cedar]

shhhhh bro

if i wind up doing these votes i want some optimism 😂

[fiery delta]

I agree with such promotion. This illustration shows the strength of Ba7, the weakness of exd4. I would add some brief description on what these white, grey and black rectangles represent on the diagram. But please, don't spam. Allow maybe some normal discussion on the chat.

[tender grove]

I wonder if this is how politicians think

[river prawn]

The median voter is the most incompetent, braindead individual imaginable

It’s true in this vote chess game and it’s true in politics

I’m predicting exd4 will win 70% of the vote

[potent cedar]

how about this?

[lost cosmos]

yes. For example, google "drug scares". Politicians take advantage of them when they're trying to win elections.

e.g., blaming fentanyl issues on immigrants to pass harsher border policies, when in fact the deeper reasons have nothing to do with fentanyl

I'm taking a sociology class right now and that was literally in my last lecture

[outer lance]

So, our options are: 7. d4 Ba7 or 7. d4 Bb6 as a backup against this likely move.
If I don't vote within the first 2 minutes of our turn, then I am voting for whichever one has the highest chance of us NOT getting "steam-rolled" by the 7... exd4 voters.
Hopefully 7... Ba7 will be in first or a very close second place when I vote on chess.com, since that is the one I think we are pushing for the most in the team chat.

[outer lance]

I couldn't post this image to the chess.com team chat, so I will try and post here.
If anyone likes one or both of them, feel free to post to the team chat on chess.com

. Please only use the Bb6 one, if it is well out in front of Ba7 but still fighting it out with a good chance against the terrible exd4.

. https://imgflip.com/i/akbi2c to be used first and/or when Ba7 is our best chance of beating exd4.

. https://imgflip.com/i/akbivg backup image, if Bb6 ends' up being our best chance of beating exd4.

[river prawn]

Ba7 will be our best chance but it won't make a difference

[outer lance]

👍

[hollow holly]

i mean i know how this games gonna go

because i literally play this as white

and know the lines

we are going to go Ba7 Bg5 exd4 c3 b5 Bb3 d6 Bd5 Bb7 h6 Bh4

and have a tough game

[surreal cipher]

if we vote for 'good moves' 😹

[hollow holly]

oh yeah yikes....

[surreal cipher]

we're gonna play exd4 after d4

[hollow holly]

the problem is all these lines are extremely theoretical for black

yeah like beginners just snap take 😭

[surreal cipher]

and beginners are like 50%+ the voting pool

[hollow holly]

im gonna become a furry and say nya every 5 seconds if at any point exd4 gets played at an INCORRECT moment

[sour forum]

Welcome to the soon to be furry clan 😭

(Im in there)

[sour forum]

https://tenor.com/view/boys-kiss-boys-kissing-boykisser-mauzy-mauzymice-gif-7128191481398927136

[outer lance]

Repeat of my post on chess.com -

" "GG" everyone.
I voted for Ba7, but it is already 130 behind exd4, : ( "

---

By the time I posted this here, it is now closer to 200 behind exd4

[fiery delta]

🙁 That was quick move by Judit. I think that voters are afraid of d5 and dxe5.

[sour forum]

NOOOO I NOW NEED TO WEAR CAT EARS TO CLASS

I am now a furry 🥀

[outer lance]

, unless you secretly want to , then .

. Class should be funny, at least.

[sour forum]

Hell nah

[outer lance]

All good.
It should still be a bit funny, just make sure you laugh with the rest of the class - even if you are crying / upset on the inside.

[sour forum]

🥀

[fiery delta]

We'll need to retreat this Bishop in next move, after cxd4. This move will win of course. The material is even.

[sour forum]

Nope, no one reading chat

Exd4 is going to be played

Whoever bets on we winning this game is going to lose

Ggs

[outer lance]

Anyway, since this is next move discussion and exd4 will win - : ( , I think we should aim for one of these:

. 7. d4 exd4 8. cxd4 Ba7 9. e5 Nd5 (9... Ne4)

or

. 7. d4 exd4 8. e5 Ne8 (8... Nd5)

OC we can try and take the "easy way out" and push for resign, but i doubt that would even get close to winning for another 10-20 moves at least.

[drifting kiln]

is Ba7 the only move?

[sour forum]

Probably

[fiery delta]

I mean the next move, 8th. The Bishop will be forced to flee eventually, and the voters will play it. We didn't lose material yet.

[outer lance]

Bb6 was also a "slightly inferior looking" retreat, but still way better than exd4.

[sour forum]

Yes, butt ceding the center to a gm is equivalent to losing

[drifting kiln]

what move is in second place rn

[outer lance]

Ba7 is in 2nd and already a whopping 450+ votes behind exd4, : (

[drifting kiln]

oof

doesnt seem like we have any control at all yet

[sour forum]

https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/images_users/tiny_mce/Fleau2002/phpm10l8o42j1k95dCp6ed.jpg w image

[crude gull]

Rip

[fiery delta]

Agreed. The center is lost. Judit has no mercy. She's a GM and knows the mean rating of her opponents.

[sour forum]

How to win

[sour forum]

Exd4 in a bigner game? Yea we can blundet worse in the middlegame . exd4 vs a gm ? Were cooked

This was worse than levy game

[fiery delta]

exd4 looks innocent at first sight. I'm still following this match. Some person on the chat said it's not a tragic yet.

[sour forum]

Either she sacs the rook to mate us or we get smoked in the endgame

[outer lance]

Yeah, I know this comment / joke has been made before in other "v The World" games, but the Average Rating: 0 on the chess.com members' area seems about right, after this move.

[sour forum]

500s aint using the opening book lol

"Do not do unnecessary trades" - igor Smirnov

[outer lance]

👍 to the above comments.
Sorry I can't emoji any comments directly, but I can still post the emoji like this (?)

[sour forum]

Try `/connect'?

You might need to connect

Your account

[outer lance]

👍

I tried this earlier but only once, this is the message I got last time: "This account is already connected to another chess.com account"

[sour forum]

@river prawn quit 😭

What is ts

[river prawn]

Absolute mockery of a game

I’m disgusted

[sour forum]

Theres no effective way to communicate with bigners on what move is best

[sour forum]

Screw ts

After exd4

[river prawn]

Bruh I don’t even care

It might as well be +1 or +2 or anything else

This won’t even be our first obvious mistake

[sour forum]

+173 even

[sour forum]

at this point i am jst waiting for polgars brilliant move

[river prawn]

I doubt she’ll even get to play one

The last time someone played exd4, it didn’t take a brilliant move to win

[sour forum]

This sucks ngl

[sharp magnet]

So move 7 resigns

Lmao what a game

[remote totem]

goes to show how the average player is extremely shit at chess

[sour forum]

Ofc

[drifting kiln]

well if the game ends so quick maybe it'll push them to make some changes

ideally they want a cool battle like the others

[sour forum]

Some blud was winning and then proceeded to hang his queen for no reason

[fiery delta]

Even two-step voting won't help. It's 57% of voters. Looks like 18% of people communicate and read the chat.

[sour forum]

Yea

[sour forum]

He resigned btw

[outer lance]

Now that exd4 will win this turn barring a miracle, I wouldn't be surprised if "the World" plays this or something about as bad looking for us:

. 7. d4 exd4 8. e5 Ne4 9. cxd4 Nxd4 10. Nxd4 d6 11. Nf3 Bxf2+ 12. Rxf2 Nxf2 13. Kxf2 dxe5

[sour forum]

In this level(500-999), blundering and then regaining minor pieces is completely normal

CCA isnt even a thing

We struggle to follow opening principles

Fried liver is everywhere

[sour forum]

Hack chess.com and add 5000 votes to Ba7

[outer lance]

Probably our only chance for Ba7 to win now- 😜 .

Too bad, IDK how to do that ,

[river prawn]

exd4 literally increases in popularity as rating increases

70% at low Elo, 90% at 2000

At 2200-2300 it’s about even, you have to get all the way to 2500+ before Ba7 is played 90% of the time

See the thing is in the GothamChess game we at least got out of book before blundering

In this case we don’t even make it 8 moves

Granted, it’s 2 more than against ElDivis, where 6.d3 was played instead of 6.c3, and the World played 6..O-O? and lost the e5 pawn

I guarantee you if Judit Polgar had played 6.d3 we would have hung that pawn in the exact same way

Of course 6.c3 is way more common at all levels

And even if 6..b5 had won, we would have made the exact same mistake after 7.Bb3 d6 8.d4 exd4

Or 7.Bb3 O-O 8.d4 exd4

d4 was going to be played eventually, and we were always going to blunder by taking

This way it happens a move earlier

Who else wants to quit

[fiery delta]

I was expecting something worse like Scholar mate, fast Queen introduction. My father likes to play like this. He plays casually. Me also, but I like and follow some theory, studied some books. This game still has some theory-backup. But eventually it may end as a blunder against GM. The proposed changes to format were not introduced. I really don't know what I would play without reading the chat. exd4 would look like standard move to me. I would need much calculations.

[outer lance]

I would also likely play exd4 in this position, at least if there was no access to a DB and / or team chat.

[hidden echo]

… yeah those two pawns in the center are not going to help black’s case

[river prawn]

Judit Polgar has honor

She played something logical and objectively strong against a worthy opponent

She totally could have wrecked us with an opening trap but that’s not like her

This isn’t even an opening trap

White didn’t play any dubious moves

Just c3-d4 to control the center

Absolute mockery of a game, even worse than the GothamChess game

I hope this makes chess.com change their public vote chess rules

But I’m not hopeful

Good night

[fiery delta]

Perhaps, in GothamChess game we began the disadvantage with second capturing in move 13-14.

But I've been enjoying the Judit Polgar game to this point. I will follow for some time. (I followed GothamChess game to the ending).

[sour forum]

"6.d3 was played instead of 6.d3" what?, wait what?

[potent cedar]

Apologies if folk think ive disappeared, but the margin is too big for me to try to change the vote for this move

[sour forum]

Hack chess.com 🥀

[potent cedar]

Also @river prawn i don't have access to post in the poll channel

[compact gale]

❓ Which ones are you thinking of?

---

@ripe cloud please give @potent cedar permission to create and manage polls

[compact gale]

Asking @ripe cloud to give you that permission

[sour forum]

Your dad sounds like nelson

[river prawn]

Woops

Should be 6.d3 instead of 6.c3

[fiery delta]

Well, didn't play with my father for a very long time. He tells me he plays sometimes on-line with some people. He used to play Scandinavian and just feel only the strength of the major pieces like Queen and the Rook. 🙂 But it was much time ago. I must play with my father once again, didn't have occasion. He asked me if I want to play a game with him, on-line. I always played on wooden chess-board, with the timer. I marked the moves, as I'm more "professional" player, my dad is more casual.

[drifting kiln]

Other games we kind of put up a fight and the game was in the balance for pretty long. For example vs Gotham we held ok until c5 and the epic rook sac

iirc vs magnus we also had some clutch moves

[cold badge]

Can someone explain to me why 7..exd4 is a bad move. I voted for 7..Ba7 per the reccomendation, but I just wanna understand things better.

[sour forum]

exd4 then cxd4 kicking the bishop, we lose control of the center

[compact gale]

Good question, deserves a good answer. Losing the center is essentially correct, but how?

[sour forum]

Is opening book legal in this?

[fiery delta]

My opinion is: connected d4 and e4 pawns on the White side without countering e5 pawn, will have much strength, our Bishop will be forced to retreat, and then our Knights can be attacked in the center. Too much retreats needed, and tempos wasted.

Also I'm wondering if some counterattack is possible, like b5 at this point, so we can hide the Bishop behind the b-file pawn for example.

We still have d-file pawn, which can be useful.

[sour forum]

7. d4 exd4 8. cxd4 Ba7 (8... Be7) 9. e5 Ne8 10. Nc3 and she wins probably

10... b5 is but an inconvenience

She just gonna bring out the queen and wreck our castle

Our queen is trapped

[fiery delta]

IMO it's very far fetched conclusions. We need still to develop our queen-side bishop. White will control c5, d5, e5 and f5 with the pawns. Black will control d4, e4, d5 and e5 with the knights. But pawns wall seem stronger.

[sour forum]

Yea , but with whites pawns like this our queen and light square bishop seems very restricted

[fiery delta]

I agree, and also I think that the Knights are restricted here. However once b or d-file pawn moves, we can free the light square Bishop. Queen will be blocked for some time though.

[surreal cipher]

https://www.chess.com/analysis/collection/markon-Va3uW2Rt/3hoJUQ7xFg/analysis

[cold badge]

Thank you for this answer

[compact gale]

Blocked, not public?

[surreal cipher]

should be fixed

[river prawn]

@potent cedar do you even want to run polls?

[pale rover]

holy shit i look at this and it got cooked faster than the gotham chess one

[compact gale]

It's not lost yet. Am I optimistic , not in the least. In the Magnus game almost losing a piece on move 5 and the criticism of opening up the kings castled position, combined with a lot if strong player discussions and discord recommendations seem to magically take hold and secure a draw, just barely.

[cold badge]

I hope we can continue doing the polls

I do recognize that the game is probably lost, but it would be interesting to at least learn from it

[potent cedar]

I am happy to, I know the majority opinions is to vote resign but I am going to wait a little

currently only 3 people want to carry on doing votes

will see if this goes up, if not then kinda no point 😢

[river prawn]

Sorry for throwing this on you but I warned this would happen

[potent cedar]

Yh i know, must admit didnt think it would be quite a big dropout after exd4 but i can totally see why

[potent cedar]

Nah ty for doing that, stops me wasting time if no one s interested

Admittedly I only had 3 reasons for being interested in doing polls:

1. try to understand the minds of the world (how did we manage a6)
2. more chess experience in general
3. possibility of leading next world match if chess.com do alter something

[potent cedar]

Ok @everyone
I know I havent been in charge of polls for 10 hours yet but I too am also resigning
Obviously the main reason is that there is a clear majority who support voting to resign for all future moves (so any future polls are essentially pointless). However I believe that there is another important reason which is that by stopping recommendations at move 8 instead of ~26 as for Gotham chess we have a much more persuasive argument that the whole affair has been a joke.

I really hope we can persuade chess.com to change the format of world chess since it is a format that has so much potential but is clearly being implementd awfully

[river prawn]

You said you were interested

[potent cedar]

Yes I was, but I dont see how I can even do a poll if we already know there will be a majority for resign

And I can't just override the peoples opinion

[river prawn]

It’s not just “resign this move” but “resign on each and every future move”

[potent cedar]

Yes

[river prawn]

We’re getting 3-4x more votes on those polls than any of the recommendation polls

[potent cedar]

Also this is before the votes for not resigning get split by the potential variations

[river prawn]

2/3 of our team either plans to quit or has already quit

[river prawn]

I asked a simple question, do you want to vote to resign or not

It’s not just that we have a terrible position, it’s that we have absolutely no control over the game

[potent cedar]

Yes

[river prawn]

All that spamming 6..b5 did basically nothing

Okay that’s not entirely true

The issue is that it did do something as long as people kept doing it

6..O-O only started winning by more than 1% after people stopped spamming

[potent cedar]

I think we have about a 5% impact, nowher near enough

[river prawn]

Might be more than that

But there needs to be veto power

High Elo players should be able to veto obvious blunders

[potent cedar]

Hopefully, but Ba7 only has 16% so its defo less than that. And some people would probably have found that move anyway

[river prawn]

Doubt it

Maybe 10% found that legit

Even that’s high, when you consider some voted for Bb6

[potent cedar]

so we have a 6% impact lol

[river prawn]

At best

I joined this game because I wanted to give public vote chess a second chance

This was the second chance

[potent cedar]

also Idk how long it was gonna take for someone to give me access to the poll channel

another case of chess.com being painful

[river prawn]

I hope a blunder this early and this obvious will make chess.com change their rules

[river prawn]

No, that’s the discord server, not chess.com

[potent cedar]

ah yh true

mb

is it veto power or elo floor thats needed?

[wooden sigil]

elo floor def

Or several games with different elo levels.

[potent cedar]

thing is, we basically need the power to force a move on some occasions, which means we are basically back to playing club chess vs 1 opponent

which maybe isnt bad

Would be fun if we could get a GM to play against this server

[river prawn]

We need titled player recommendations

We also need a time period for suggesting moves before voting opens

[potent cedar]

Also back to this, I think the more that resign now, the more likely we are to influence c.com

[river prawn]

You won’t be able to get enough people to actually vote to resign to end the game

But it will hopefully send a message

Fix your game

[potent cedar]

yh 🙁

[sharp magnet]

How did you quit before starting

[potent cedar]

Im not sure, though personally I would like to just use discord server and ignore chess.com

[river prawn]

That’s how cooked we are

[potent cedar]

because Lily did a vote and majority wanted to resign before I had done a single vote

[river prawn]

Not only that, but we’re getting more votes in that poll than any recommendation poll this entire game

[potent cedar]

that shows we are reallllly cooked

[river prawn]

Okay not quite

We had 36 votes for 3.Bb5 poll

Currently 30 votes in the vote to resign poll

51 votes in the “do you plan to quit” poll

[potent cedar]

give it time

it will overtake 36 easy

[river prawn]

Probably

Only 2 hours so far

[potent cedar]

ok we are only getting so many votes for this cause it doesnt require actual analysis, but still it shows...

[river prawn]

Yeah

The polls with a ton of votes were also opinion polls

Several good options

No analysis needed to determine between 3..a6 and 3..Nf6, that’s a personal decision

Analysis will tell you they’re both good

[potent cedar]

yh but u need to analyze (or know the theory) to know they are both good in the first place

[river prawn]

Everyone on this server cares enough about chess to know the theory

Okay maybe not this entire server but definitely the world team

[potent cedar]

my theory is shit lol

[river prawn]

Yeah but you’ve still seen 3.Bb5 many times before

You have a move prepared

[potent cedar]

but like it doesnt matter cos it takes 1 s to work it out

like ive seen the position we are in now and it doesnt take theory or any thought to see that exd4 is bad but 😭😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[wooden sigil]

IT's OVER

[hollow holly]

can i be leader of polls (its meaningless but wanna feel powerful)

[potent cedar]

yes you are welcome to do that, though I dont know if you will be able to get access to the poll channel to post polls

[river prawn]

I guess lol

We might not actually do polls tho

Depending on the result of the poll to not make any more recommendations

[potent cedar]

I dont think that matters
Though idk what we'll do if we don't get a majority for stopping recommendation polls but do get a majority for voting resign for all future moves
Perhaps we could just say that the polls are simply for those who do not want to resign
Anway I guess thats now for @hollow holly to decide 😂

ooooh i k its only been 10 hrs but can I put this role on my CV ?

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[river prawn]

No

[potent cedar]

haha ok

Ah well, Its been nice to chat here for the past week or two but I dont think I can add anything constructive now
will leave you all for a (potentially very long) while

[jovial magnet]

I love how we're already loosing on move 7

[fiery delta]

As of recommendations, I would like to hear them for the further moves. Otherwise some of the players may seem lost/confused on what to play next, including me.

When exd4 is played, with cxd4 response from Judit, people will see that they must retreat bishop. From pros: We have e-file opened for our Rook. The c-file pawn will not exist, thus White will have some gap in defence, not protecting b4 and d4.

These 2 pawns are - from what I know - called hanging pawns. The f-file pawn can't connect with them as Knight is blocking it.

[wooden sigil]

My recommendation is offer draw or resign.

[buoyant blade]

a "hanging" pawn structure is when theres an isolated pawn chain that is completely blockaded. Most commonly this occurs in the Modern Benoni and Benko Gambit, with black's d6-c5 pawn chain with a white pawn on d5. On the other hand, an advanced pawn chain like d4-e5 for white or d5-e5 for black is generally favorable to the attacking side, since the e-pawn controls key squares while also restricting the opponent's mobility.

exd4 just concedes the center and loses a tempo at the same time, not to mention the numerous other reasons why its a bad move

[median wraith]

I understand why everyone is frustrated, truly, I do. Although it is disheartening that so many are voting for such bad moves, I will keep participating. Since I am low-rated, I could use some help, so I'd love for the recommendations to continue (if it's not too much of a hassle). Ultimately, it is just a game, and we would probably lose anyway, the world stands no chance against the genius of Judit. We might as well play it out, have fun, and learn something new. I hope chesscom will implement some changes that will improve our chances in future games.

[compact gale]

Not hanging if there is a pawn on either side that can support even if temporarily blocked by a piece.

[compact gale]

We actually did not make any poor moves yet, but we are about to. exd4 gives Judit a clear advantage, but we are not lost if we play very well or she makes a poor move too. Don't give up. Will we probably lose, of course. When we signed up for this game that was the most probable result, especially given chess.com poor support for public vote chess game team work.

If we continue to play poorly, we will lose ofc.

[median wraith]

Yes, we are about to play a sub-optimal move (to put it mildly). But it is premature for us to resign the game because of a few poor moves. Judit will likely sieze the advantage, but it is no reason to give up just yet (not that I ever would anyway).

Again, Judit is a strong player, so the chances of us even drawing the game are low, but I do enjoy a good game, so let's keep going. We can still make a come-back (if we can somehow get the voters to listen).

[river prawn]

bruh we're just going to make some other blunder in the near future

im not sticking around to find out

[hollow holly]

uh i cant make any polls?

[nova sand]

hopefully the people read chat before voting

[sour forum]

Which is near impossible because i doubt people even know chat exists

[hollow holly]

can people take back their votes?

[sour forum]

Yes, but unlikely tho

[hollow holly]

okay im do my best

im sending this copy paste message to every person who voted for ed

Please take back your vote and go Ba7, exd4 gives white free advantage and the center.

[compact gale]

No

[hollow holly]

crap... okay

i resign from my position

@river prawn 💀

i thought i had a chance

because we are literally theoretically lost

because I play this exact line with white

[compact gale]

You do if you don't throw in the towel. The odds are not exactly in our favor, but too early to quit imo

We are not theoretically lost.

[river prawn]

@compact gale you wanna be poll master like the GothamChess game?

[compact gale]

If we reversed the colors, she would very likely win.

[river prawn]

Okay but this won’t be the last mistake

[compact gale]

No, I did 3 World games. That's enough for me until chess.com fixes public vote chess.

[hollow holly]

yeah lol

maybe make it mandatory to connect account to discord and have World team

[compact gale]

This might be a teachable moment?!

[hollow holly]

so you know, we know all people who voted are actually looking at the chat

idk how someone could implement that

some tech guy idk

[compact gale]

Even Discord can't handle that many posts well. And it isn't just chat that needs fixing.

[hollow holly]

maybe like a rating cap?

but then that would be opressive

if we are hell bent on winning thats mandatory

[compact gale]

The Kasparov game by MSN was so much better designed. The world narrowly lost after 60+ moves but it was a great game. Kasparov wrote a book about it. He was quite proud of the game.

[vestal nebula]

Maybe an idea could be to run two games in parallel? A <1000 game and a >1000 game.

[hollow holly]

but i dont assume everyone is trying that hard

[vestal nebula]

Though for the <1000 game maybe the opponent would need to give odds or something so that both games have similar chances

[lavish crystal]

Hi guys! Sorry, I last featured in the Magnus game, but went offline due to other things. I can start my advertising again, if you guys like!

Okay, I've posted an ad in the chat, let us see how many people join!

[fiery delta]

I voted for Ba7. And I see It's leading now. 🙂 Bb6 and Be7 on second and third place. So our Bishop is safe.

Also thanks for the description of hanging pawns. Actually I knew that such pawns must be isolated from the other pawns.

[lost cosmos]

Too late

Black is already cooked

Ba7 should have happened the last turn

Now people only play it because the piece is getting attacked, and Ba7 “makes sense”

[lavish crystal]

74 people voted Bxd4. I have lost hope.

[nova sand]

what should i vote

[fiery delta]

In my opinion just move Bishop from c5 to safe place. I suggest Ba7 or Be7, which both look good to me.

[nova sand]

makes sense

there are currently about 450 votes for moves that blunder a piece

[sour forum]

Thats trolls btw

[vagrant pelican]

You have hope to begin with because you played a good game against Magnus. We’ve had two failed games since that

[obsidian tinsel]

You can check the openings in the top right and still everyone voted exd4, it’s over

At least ba7 is going to be next, which should’ve been played last move

[nova sand]

i think Be7 is probably better than Ba7 but Ba7 is not much worse, we're not in a great position anyways

[obsidian tinsel]

The issue with these games is that they don’t even play whoever the strongest player is. They just play somebody with the average rating of the group

[nova sand]

and the average is unfortunately low, i suppose

[obsidian tinsel]

exd4 is literally just “ooh we are trading”

[drifting kiln]

so

how bad is it after Ba7?

judit is def gonna roll down the center but like do we have drawing chances

[nova sand]

Could be worse

[drifting kiln]

might as well try to play accurately

so judits def going d5 e5

[nova sand]

Not getting 5…Be7, 6…b5 or 7…Ba7 is very unfortunate

She’s just going to bully our knights now

[drifting kiln]

Ne7 or b8?

actually maybe that should be a poll

[lost cosmos]

why are we calculating

you're already losing

[nova sand]

why the hell does 8...b5 have more votes than 8...Bb4

It's also very close to 8...Be7 in votes, and it really shouldn't be

[fiery delta]

If Judit plays 9. d5 in the next move, we can go Ne7. If Judit plays 9. e5, we can go Nd5, and our Knights are safe (after 10. Bb3 we have 10. .. Nce7). I would go Nc3 on Judit's place.

If Judit plays 9. d5 Ne7 10. e5 we have Ng4 and our Knights should be safe too (I'm unsure here).

Sorry, if Judit plays 9. d5 Ne7 10. e5 we can just capture 10. .. Nfxd5. 🙂

[fiery delta]

8. .. Ba7 is on the board. Thank God we have good responses for both Knight threats.

Added: Some dangerous pins may occur after 10. ... Nce7 11. Bg5. So we should play 10. ... Nb6 and then unlock our pieces with d6.

[fiery delta]

I found some ways to avoid the dangerous pins, and still got active pieces.

OK, so after:

• e5 I suggest Ne8. Protects squares essential for our defence: d6 and f6.
• d5 I suggest Na5. This knight can't be threaten and also protects b3 and has some nice move options (c4, then b6). [Someone proposed also Ne7.]

[fiery delta]

Nd5 is going to win. It's not a bad move, but I fear the Pins.

Now I probably understand, why Be7 may be crucial in Ruy Lopez.

[drifting kiln]

Thank you for the move suggestions!

[fiery delta]

People also found that Ne4 is a good response. At the moment both moves lead.

[nova sand]

Ne8 is probably the best move but it likely will not get many votes

WHY DOES Ng4 HAVE MORE VOTES THAN Ne8

[compact gale]

Come on, it's not actually lost yet. Bad position, yes. I prefer 9... Ne8 here.

[crude gull]

It’s… a valuable enough lesson. At GM level it’s almost lost.

Whatever we play, she’ll slowly take more and more space

[fiery delta]

I see that after 9. ... Nd5 which will be played by Black, and 10. Bb3 we have also Nde7. Our second knight, if threated can go to Na5 and force her bishop to leave the b3..g8 diagonal.

After Nce7 and Bg5 there are pins on diagonals b3..g8 and g5..d8 and additionally one pinned Knight must protect other pinned Knight!

[fiery delta]

Like they say "if one piece is poor, entire position is poor". Judit took an inititiatve with the center. The "pin-line" has been chosen, instead of Ne8 and I will rather vote for Nde7 in next move, which gives us relatively some breath. Other option, Nce7 pins us to the ground.

We have so much poorly placed pieces versus Judit's bishops. I'm sad, that one move could make a disaster in the opening.

[tender grove]

whoever said that must hate the french

[fiery delta]

It's a citation from some book. I just searched and it was Tarrasch.

[fiery delta]

Sorry, Nce7 is probably better. That was my initial idea. I think that putting the knights back all the time leads to worse position each time.

[nova sand]

Ne8 isn't even close to getting played 🙁

[compact gale]

Don't get me wrong, I am not optimistic. More inaccuracies from the world incoming. King side attack incoming unless we start playing better.

[compact gale]

I know.

[vestal nebula]

Why exactly is Ne8 better than Nd5 in the current position? I know someone said it defends the d6 and f6 squares but are there any other reasons? It just instinctively looks like a very ugly move, blocking the rook and everything.

[solar wadi]

You can't hold d5 if you play Nd5

[fiery delta]

If Judit plays 10. Bb3, we can do Nde7 and then either:

• 11. d5 Na5
• 11. Bg5 d5
      So we will be able to hold d5 after Nde7.

[nova sand]

i think you meant to type 11. d5 Na5

[fiery delta]

Yes, of course. thanks for correction.

[solar wadi]

Na5 loses a piece or we don't get d6 in time

12. Bc2 d6 13. b4 Nc4 14. Qd3

12. Bc2 Ng6 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Nbd2 b5 and our position still looks absolutely ridiculous

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some random sacrifice that wins on the spot for white in 5-10 moves' time

I predict we will lose before move 20

[fiery delta]

I made some analysis for 10. Bb3 and 10. Nc3 (upto move 13.) and put it on game's chat. I responded to the major threats: pawn pushing and Bg5.

I can't see Na5 losing a piece. I will most likely vote for Nde7 in next move as answer for mentioned moves. Then Judit can't play Bg5 as we have d5. If she pushes the pawn to d5 we have d6. If she pushes the pawn further to d6, we exchange the pawns and move our Knight on defensive g6 square.

She can't do Bg5 and pawn pushing simultaneously. So we always do d6 in time, or the pawn exchange and Ng6.

If we play d5, she can capture with en-passant, so we recapture with queen. Our Na5 knight has good position, from what I checked, restricting Judit's bishop.

[solar wadi]

Either way, we will lose very quickly

[nova sand]

why not d6 instead of d5? it pressures the e5 pawn and white is more likely to take it

[drifting kiln]

Judit has played 10. Bb3

[umbral cloud]

Is 10...Nce7 a viable candidate, to defend the knight on d5?

[fiery delta]

It's a tough decision, but I voted for Nce7. We block the pawns, which is important and block the Bishop. Nde7 might be good as well, but the pawns may be devastating. I'm only worried about Bg5 but c6 should defend us. The votes are splitted.

[warm sparrow]

Obviously we're worse in any line, but I'm kinda tempted by Nb6, and then if d5 just going back to Nb8. We're cramped for space, but we have d6 and some open lines for our bishops.

Nce7 visually looks like it's giving up less space, but after the pin all our pieces are tied down, and I don't know what our next move is supposed to be.

[obsidian tinsel]

We lost all hope after Exd4

[drifting kiln]

i hope we'll be able to play c6 if it comes down to it

the board is starting to get a little confusing so we actually may get a little control of the moves back

Nce7 with a slight lead to Nde7 2983-2768

[fiery delta]

We have so little space, compared to Judit. As of mentioned poor piece in French defense, I guessed it was reference to in-famous French Bishop in this defense, which is locked by 1. e4 e6. This defence strengthens the f7 square though, which usually is a weak point.

People say that the pins will be temporary. For now we stopped central pawn march, but I have no idea how to develop our other pieces.

If - as was mentioned by someone - computer engine gives +1 points, I can't believe - since Black's pieces are blocked and White are active.

[lost cosmos]

black is already lost. You're only delaying the inevitable

[lost cosmos]

checking engine eval is cheating BTW.

[fiery delta]

Yes, I know. I'm not checking myself. I read message mentioning this on the game chat.

[fiery delta]

If Judit continues to use our inaccuracies it will be lost. And from her move Bb3 it seems so.

[lost cosmos]

bro, she's a strong GM

I mean, duh?

[fiery delta]

She can still give some handicap. She's not going to lose advantage, and the moves are precise. As opposed to World's moves. What I meant is that the pins will occur, and Judit Polgar will utilize advantage without giving at least a small chance for her inaccuracy. I called the Judit's first moves as "friendly play" earlier.

Thus also GMs play with people simultaneous exhibition on many boards with less-skilled players.

[turbid ravine]

You’re not supposed to give the eval, even if someone else did, but I’m not the one who cares the most
Regardless, what was the logic behind 11.c6 after Bg5 ? Qe8 seems less bad to me as it allows the d6 pawn break eventually, which is imperative to play in order to break the center and activate our dark-squared bishop. Maybe I missed something

I’m also afraid of a kingside attack, which seems highly probable in this position considering Judit’s style of play. Did anyone see something dangerous?

[fiery delta]

I paste what I said in the chat: We have so unfortunate piece arrangement! White pieces are so active. And all this because of one or two moves in the opening!?

However after c6 maybe situation won't be so poor for us and we can unlock our potential.

11. Bg5 c6
12. Nc3 Nxc3
13. bxc3 d5

[tender grove]

why would white play Nc3 before taking on d5

[fiery delta]

I'm not sure what Judit will play after c6, just an example. But I think that she wouldn't exchange her strong bishop(s).

[tender grove]

she wouldn’t without a good reason but doubling and isolating those pawns on the d file seems like a pretty good reason to me

defending d5 is pretty tricky

[drifting kiln]

just confirming we reccomend c6 right?

looks like some other options discussed on chat are Qe8 and h6, maybe we could have a poll

[dim beacon]

isnt f6 just a blunder

we're losing a pawn

or we'll have to take with the g pawn which exposes the king