Upgrading from inherited build

[modern kestrel]

it might be worth it to scrap the entire build tbh
like either sell the gpu and turn the pc into a home server, or sell most of the parts and reuse the case/storage/cpu cooler

[indigo hull]

I wouldn't mind selling the build, but yeah I'd likely keep the storage and the CPU cooler

[indigo hull]

My friends and I put together the following build and thought it looked OK. What do you think? https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/jyFzsh

[modern kestrel]

what resolution are you at

[indigo hull]

I have a M27U so 4k 160hz

[modern kestrel]

also this is the build I was working on

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/ypsqXk

[modern kestrel]

yeah don't need 7700 then

[weak forge]

Gonna have to fix that case

[indigo hull]

To what? :p

[indigo hull]

I was recommended the 7800x3d

Instead of the 7700 or the 7600

And I was looking to get an nvidia 4080 super, or is the 7900xtx better?

[modern kestrel]

If you’re at 4K you don’t need

[modern kestrel]

The XTX is better unless you’re raytracing

[indigo hull]

Why is that?

[modern kestrel]

7600 is more than enough cpu power

[indigo hull]

Are you sure? I'm a bit skeptical, please can you send me a benchmark to show that? Thank you by the way for the help!

[modern kestrel]

The 7600 is as fast as a 5800X3D

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-7600-non-x/18.html

[true vapor]

4k 160hz

To use that to its fullest potential you'd want a 4090 + 7800x3d

[true vapor]

720p

[modern kestrel]

Yes

You test cpus at low res to make sure everything is CPU bound

[true vapor]

hmm okay

[modern kestrel]

You see how at 4K the performance hits an almost flat line pretty quickly?

That’s bc it’s gpu bound

You can’t meaningfully compare cpus like this bc the performance difference is so little

Although it is useful to see what cpus will be good enough at 4K

On 4090 at 4K the 7800X3D is still 5% faster than the 7600

But I wouldn’t really pay $150 for 5% performance

[indigo hull]

That’s a really good point to be honest

I appreciate the explanation! I’ll look to get the 7600 then

[indigo hull]

The furthest my budget stretches is a 4080 Super

And it would be nice to have it for the nvidia suite extras instead of the 7900XTX

[modern kestrel]

I mean

they don't seem very useful to me tbh

rtx voice is just easyeffects and you dont need an nvidia gpu to do realtime video upscaling

[modern kestrel]

there is one other benefit to the 7800X3D

it'll last longer before needing to upgrade as it's 27% faster

and it's faster in multithreaded loads (non gaming stuff) as it has more cores

and it's more power efficient than the 7600, although not by much

but I personally wouldn't get it unless I was at 1440p or 1080p

the XTX is also 20% slower than the 4090 so the performance difference on the XTX will be less than 5%

[indigo hull]

I'm also keeping in mind Nvidia Broadcast - it's useful as I work in legal and like to be able to be as clear as possible :p probably a me thing

[indigo hull]

Why only at those resolutions and not 4k? Would it not be more lasting if it's already 27% faster in general

[indigo hull]

There is about a £180 difference in price for me between the 7900XTX and the 4080 Super

[modern kestrel]

yeah thing is the 4080 super is slower

(in non raytracing)

[modern kestrel]

bc at lower resolutions your gpu will be able to render more frames

more frames means the cpu needs to feed it with more data

so the performance difference between the 7600 and 7800X3D would get larger and larger the lower the resolution you're playing at

[modern kestrel]

I'm not familiar with what that is

[indigo hull]

Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate that!

[indigo hull]

Fair enough...

[modern kestrel]

it's 27% faster in games

it's just that at 4k the 7600 is enough to feed a 4090

[indigo hull]

that makes sense, and if at any point I feel like it's a bottleneck I can just upgrade to a better CPU, right? But that shouldn't be the case for a long time

[modern kestrel]

in non gaming it's around 23-30% faster depending on the workload

[indigo hull]

I am wondering though - after looking at reddit forums for majority of the evening now, I have noticed people complaining about AMD's driver updates and issues with the power delivery of the XTX

[modern kestrel]

yeah, you can just upgrade the cpu when bottleneck

the thing I'm not sure about is whether the X3D would be better or worse value over time

[indigo hull]

I guess I'll just take your recommendation of the XTX - it is cheaper and more powerful with more VRAM end of story

[modern kestrel]

Yeah unless you want to use raytracing, in which case it’s not a good choice

Even the 4070 super beats the XTX in raytracing

But for raw performance it’s better and has more vram yeah

[indigo hull]

Thats tough

[indigo hull]

Its a tough decision because its £180 more

[modern kestrel]

Wait the XTX is more?

[indigo hull]

No, the 4080S is £180 more

[modern kestrel]

Ah

[indigo hull]

But thats just the ASUS SUPER OC edition

The Palit/Zotac cards actually are less expensive than the 7900XTX

[modern kestrel]

I’m seeing a 90 pound price difference

[indigo hull]

£90 is not as much as £180 in my books if it gets me the better card :p

[modern kestrel]

But I personally wouldn’t even consider the 4080 with this large of a price difference

[modern kestrel]

The thing is the XTX is the better card

I would consider if they were the same price

[indigo hull]

right I see

[modern kestrel]

Because the XTX only beats the 4080 by 5%

[indigo hull]

this is the standard 4080 and not even the super?

[modern kestrel]

Then I would have to choose if I wanted vram or raytracing

I would prob choose vram tbh

[proven sand]

Or Linux support, if you care.

[modern kestrel]

4080 and 4080S perform basically the same

[proven sand]

If OS == Linux:
GPU = AMD
else:
GPU = any

[modern kestrel]

Well if I had to consider this personally it would be at least a year in the future and NVK would be a thing (fixing all the NVIDIA shit on linux)

[indigo hull]

Definitely Windows :p

[modern kestrel]

Also look closer at my profile pic

[proven sand]

open source Linux NV drivers have been in progress and I doubt it'll be at parity with AMD support in a year. NV drivers in Linux are improving. Slowly.

[proven sand]

oh, lol

[modern kestrel]

NVK is already faster than the proprietary driver in a couple games

I think it’ll be solid in a year considering how far they’ve come in the last few months

[proven sand]

Anyway, not trying to sidetrack this thread.

[indigo hull]

Its such a tough decision because more and more games are coming out with raytracing support

[modern kestrel]

tbh the performance hit is so much, even on nvidia gpus, that I would prefer the extra frames

[proven sand]

Esp at higher resolutions. And the gain isn't THAT huge honestly.

[modern kestrel]

Yeah it’s around 30-50%

At 4K

No thank you

[indigo hull]

Is that the performance hit when enabling ray tracing?

[modern kestrel]

Yes

[indigo hull]

So I'll essentially be a 30fps gamer

Yeah maybe ray tracing isn't there yet

Another question, what does DLSS3.0 do for NVIDIA cards that the XTX doesn't do?

[modern kestrel]

Doom eternal is probably the best optimized game they tested here and it still gets knocked below your monitor’s refresh rate on a 4080

Ignore the gpu highlighted green

[modern kestrel]

Not much

It performs slightly better and looks slightly better

Than fsr3

[modern kestrel]

I think we need a game engine that isn’t dogshit before raytracing can become popular

Or much more powerful gpus

[proven sand]

FWIW on my XTX at 3840 x 1600, I never use FSR. Maybe the day will come where I need to, but it isn't yet. And FSR isn't limited to one GPU or another. So FSR4 whenever it happens should work on my XTX

[indigo hull]

So unlike nvidia gpus FSR kind of drifts between all AMD GPUs?

[indigo hull]

fair enough then

I think I clocked on that I have an internal nvidia bias :p

[proven sand]

Yes. DLSS is locked to nvidia GPUs and some DLSS versions need newer GPUs. FSR (and XESS) work on all GPUs.

[modern kestrel]

I mean nvidia used to be the goat

Their prices are just ass now

The GPUs themselves are still good

[modern kestrel]

FSR even works on NVIDIA gpus that are unsupported by DLSS

It works on literally every gpu

[indigo hull]

actually one of the toughest calls

What cards do you guys have? Do you use them for other things than just games which influenced your decisions? Would you have bought the opposite power card if the price was the same?

[proven sand]

I bought an 7900XTX simpy because it was the best AMD GPU and I'm on Linux. I did the NV + Linux game, and I must agree with Linus Torvalds: "Nvidia, fuck you".

If I hadn't been forced...whichever was cheaper and that'd still be the XTX.

[indigo hull]

Ok, I think I have made my decision that I will go for the 7900XTX

In terms of CPU, the 7600 should be sufficient according to Object

Case-wise, it's this one: Fractal North TG Gaming Case

MOBO: B650 Aorus Elite AX

RAM: Vengenace DDR5 6000Mhz

[modern kestrel]

I got a 6650xt at msrp during the gpu shortage

I didn’t even use linux back then

The 6650xt was just the better value card

[modern kestrel]

Is that the really expensive one

It is

😭

[indigo hull]

I like the look of it

💀

Power Supply: Corsair 850W RMx Series Modular

[modern kestrel]

That mobo is just expensive for no reason

[indigo hull]

I like the wifi 👀

[modern kestrel]

The one in my list has wifi support

Although

You shouldn’t be using wifi anyway

[indigo hull]

No I'm using ethernet

What cooling would you recommend?

I've decided that I'm selling the parts I have of my current pc and just building a new one as you initially recommended

[modern kestrel]

look at my list

lemme send it again

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/ypsqXk

[modern kestrel]

your current one is fine

I forgot you had one already

[indigo hull]

And I forgot to mention that there is a lot of whine coming from inside the tubes of it 😅

[modern kestrel]

k ill check

actually ill just throw one in the build and resend it

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/DMbFyg

phantom spirit

35 pounds

[indigo hull]

bruh what

I expected a corsair or something 😂

[modern kestrel]

corsair?

they make coolers?

[indigo hull]

lmao

[modern kestrel]

they do

huh

this shit is expensive as fuck

thermalright is the goat

that 35 pound cooler beats an NH-D15

[indigo hull]

youre joking

[modern kestrel]

the red line is the NH-D15

[indigo hull]

I'm dumbfounded

[modern kestrel]

thermalright released the peerless assassin at $36 while back (in 2022 I think)

it beat the NH-D15

it then remained uncontested until thermalright released the phantom spirit

which was even better

at the same price

after that they one upped it again with the phantom spirit evo

but that one is more expensive

$43

thermalright is just built different ig

[indigo hull]

they are

But

In terms of noise, how are they in that department?

[modern kestrel]

Noise is on that graph I sent

It still beats the NH-D15 at the same noise level

If you turn up the fans to be louder than the NH-D15 it beats it by even more

[indigo hull]

thats crazy

they are built different

[modern kestrel]

I wonder how good it would be if you bought one and put noctua fans on

[modern kestrel]

The tom’s hardware review tl;drs it

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/air-cooling/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-review

This isn’t a competition. This is a massacre.

💀

[indigo hull]

Can't believe he stated that

Does it even beat AIO coolers?

Arctic Liquid Freezer III?

[modern kestrel]

It beats an h150i

But idk aio stuff

Also this is the evo not the regular phantom spirit

Your build has the regular one

ofc this is on an intel cpu so it’s different than amd

[modern kestrel]

Thats why I sent this instead

[true vapor]

Albeit it's better for testing

Intel isn't known for their great temperatures

[modern kestrel]

by "different from AMD" I mean the actual silicon under the IHS is different

some coolers that are better on intel actually perform worse on AM5 and vice versa

hell

even within AM5

the phantom spirit is the better than the frost spirit v3 for the 7600, 7700, and 7800X3D

but the frost spirit v3 is better on the 7900

[true vapor]

interesting

[modern kestrel]

I’m not sure why it is

Maybe the heat being more spread out on higher core count cpus?

[true vapor]

yup