looking for a relatively small case

[timber granite]

what in the fuck?

[burnt dune]

its cause of the specific medical benefits that is included.

[lunar night]

Walmart has better health benefits than, bigger tech companies?

Must be some benefits

[burnt dune]

idk why i even entertained the idea of trying to explain it to you

[timber granite]

this conversation is going no where

[burnt dune]

i cant even get a job at a big tech company

[lunar night]

And why would that be?

[burnt dune]

probably going to switch to remote tho at some point.

cause im not done with college. or idk where to look really.

i didnt know anything about tech before.

[lunar night]

You’re doing college currently?

How’s that going

[burnt dune]

i had to put it on the back burner for this job. but with the living situation figured out soon, i can go back.

[lunar night]

Wait wait wait

[burnt dune]

walmart also just offers free college

[lunar night]

Can afford to live without job

Can pay for college

Leaves college

To work at a job

To get health benefits

Can’t do college cus of job

Stuck at Walmart

make that make sense?

[long oriole]

are u doing technology at college?

[burnt dune]

i mean yeah that, but kind of.

[burnt dune]

biogerontology

so not really

but probably eventually

[timber granite]

everyone just stfu. this is going nowhere

[lunar night]

Not doing anything currently

[lunar night]

Is this your thread?

No.

[lunar night]

Anyway so what was different about the list I made

[burnt dune]

its cause of the health benefits. i p much dont have a choice. im going through some serious fertility stuff. and im going to kindbody.

[timber granite]

youre just flaming her for every goddamn thing that went a little bit wrong in her life

chill the fuck out

[lunar night]

What type of health benefits does Walmart have that you can’t afford?

Tryna understand that

Whole thing

[long oriole]

sorry

[lunar night]

Can’t wrap by brain around working 9 hours just for health benefits you can afford

[timber granite]

pokey just shut up

[lunar night]

What went wrong?

[lunar night]

Your thread? Am I even talking to you?

[timber granite]

not repeating it, and you know exactly what im talking about

[lunar night]

Nop don’t

[burnt dune]

i dont want to pay for health benefits out-of-pocket. its way more expensive and just honestly a bad deal.

i qualify for part time medical now which i am considering cause then ill be off for 4 days.

[lunar night]

Why is it a bad deal? I’d love to hear the reason around working rather than paying for it

And finishing college

And getting a better job

[burnt dune]

i also just didnt want to lose all of my investing stuff. it would have taken time, but i didnt want to just lose that. i could have probably gone about 2 years or so but idk i ended up saving my investment portfolio with walmart entirely

[lunar night]

What is the point of saving it, if all it’s doing is stopping you from advancing on careers!

[burnt dune]

cause its like $400

instead of like $35 at my job

[timber granite]

getting health benefits so you can save the money you would have spent on healthcare makes a lot more sense dumbass

[covert gorge]

considering american healthcare costs can put you in the red by several 100,000's quite quickly, yeah, not wanting to pay out of pocket is reasonable

[lunar night]

okay i give you all math problem

I have $40,000 saved up

I want to finish college, and, yearly use $20k to live comfortably

But I dont want to pay $400/mo for health

so im going to dropout of college

and work at walmart

where i'll get free healthcare

[burnt dune]

im about to start my 401k and investing in walmart stock even since company matches 15% of your stock. so if i put in $150 out of a $1000 paycheck, company will put in $150 too for free. but only up to 15%.

401k is 6%

[lunar night]

Now that I have $40k

I'll buy a computer thats half that budget

anything wrong?

[covert gorge]

i've learnt, that it cost's 1 million for a pacemaker replacement in america

[burnt dune]

yeah i dont have enough for a 50k brand new ford transit.

[burnt dune]

wow

[long oriole]

401k?

[covert gorge]

an ambulance ride alone is $2,500

[timber granite]

its a retirement investing plan

[burnt dune]

its a retirement plan

[lunar night]

$5000, depends on your area

[covert gorge]

american term for retirement funds

[long oriole]

k

[lunar night]

You have $40k~ saved up?

Why are you spending half of that on a computer, and, not in smt youd be living in?

doesnt make any sense to m e

ig im too poor to understand

[burnt dune]

if i put in $60 company will give me $60 each paycheck basically. so thats like a whole day of work. not really for me anymore, but i started at mcds at $8 an hour

[covert gorge]

there's no government based pension scheme

[lunar night]

you worked at mcd, and it required you too quit college?

[long oriole]

oh, idk if there is one in britain, i havent researched any of that yet

[lunar night]

wow

[burnt dune]

no that was back in 2015

[lunar night]

So anyway, you cant afford to pay $400 for health out of pocket to continue college for 3-4~ years?

but afford $20k computer?

Idk

it still makes no sense to me

[covert gorge]

in the uk, you have one through your national insurance and income tax payments via the government which is your state pension, you can also have a private pension on top of that

[burnt dune]

i care a lot about money lol.

college can wait til after the van.

[lunar night]

if you care about money, why are you spending it on a computer?

[long oriole]

oh so i automatically get a pension scheme just by working?

[burnt dune]

cause that's what i want.

[timber granite]

why the fuck is this still going on

[lunar night]

kind of

[covert gorge]

by existing in the uk

[lunar night]

That's quite literally, spending every dime you have on a car, cus thats the one you want

[long oriole]

oh ok that makes sense, i might speak to my career advisor at school, might be useful to learn about that, ty

[lunar night]

then working at walmart/other lower jobs like that

forever

[lunar night]

You should, there is 1 your parents can setup idk about british that gives you money at around 40? Would be about $1m no taxes

[covert gorge]

when you get your NI number, it'll help with finding out about it all

[covert gorge]

not in the uk

[lunar night]

sad

[long oriole]

i got that this year so.

[long oriole]

dont think thats here

[lunar night]

i see now:
College
Leaves college
Works at walmart
Lowers lifestyle to save more
Spends half savings on a computer
Spends more on a van
Takes student debt
Goes to college
Gets a job
and now you're at 40+ working without anything for retirement

[covert gorge]

pension schemes are via state(governments) and private

and private pensions can be setup by the person themself or through where they work if the company has one set up

[lunar night]

ah

[covert gorge]

there is another pension scheme for armed forces but not sure how that's set up

though if the pension is above a certain amount, it's taxable

[lunar night]

o

[lunar night]

@burnt dune missed anything?

[timber granite]

is this convo done now

[burnt dune]

yeah

[covert gorge]

i've had to learn a bit about the uk's tax system due to being self-employed, it's a rabbit hole i never want to delve in again

[burnt dune]

sounds like torture

[lunar night]

meh worth it for self-employment

imo anyway

[timber granite]

excuse me what?

[lunar night]

in U.S. we are forced into learning the basics

atleast we did at my highschool

itd be required to get your diploma to take a certain class

that'd go over roth ira etc. etc.

[timber granite]

not worth learning about taxes? wow are you ever wrong

[long oriole]

are u in the uk i take it?

[lunar night]

What? Have you lost it?

[covert gorge]

yup

[lunar night]

I think creeper, you need your eyes checked

[long oriole]

oh nice, me too

[covert gorge]

don't ever become self-employed unless you're doing a skilled job

[burnt dune]

so in terms of benching a case, you look at how well it's ambient temp impacts the gpu and cpu temps.

cause its usually a test where they keep the gpu and cpu the same as a control and change out the cases and then compare those results which is what GN does

[timber granite]

lol ok

[long oriole]

dont plan to unless i do commissions on the side, i plan to do software development

[covert gorge]

well you'll be getting hit hard in taxes that's for sure

[lunar night]

Or have savings into funding a business, and have skills in that topic, to actually make it somewhat succesful

[lunar night]

It'd be remote, he could move out to some other country if he reallyyy wanted to

maximize income

[long oriole]

yeah i heard about that, the taxes are reduced though if you do it on the side apparently according to my friend of the family who does that

[covert gorge]

you can start a business here with as little as £20

[lunar night]

You can start a business for 20 euros. Its the keeping it alive, that takes the savings :D

[covert gorge]

um, no, not unless they're doing it as cash in hand and not declaring it

[timber granite]

can we get back to the topic of the thread?

[lunar night]

your thread?

no

[long oriole]

yeah, i must of been tripping, ight i sleep now gn

[lunar night]

if dream requests sure

[lunar night]

Geez

[timber granite]

well, now she did so shut up

[burnt dune]

i request lol

[lunar night]

How did you say that before she said that?

That is so sus

[timber granite]

the reaction lol

[lunar night]

Creeper is dream??? conspiracy theory

[burnt dune]

LOL

[long oriole]

she did a reaction

[burnt dune]

i did

[lunar night]

sarcasm

[long oriole]

sorry

[lunar night]

Ey everyone

[covert gorge]

though you could say his have been averaged out due to multiple tests between several setups to see what you would get temp wisewith the case

[lunar night]

Place bets on when this computer will be finished

I say, atleast 12 more months

[timber granite]

since thats so easy to tell by text...

[lunar night]

It is, if you read it correctly

[lunar night]

@burnt dune what do you think

[timber granite]

most dont

[lunar night]

I dunno, people have been reading books for 100s of years

[burnt dune]

idk tbh. i have a lot on my plate

[lunar night]

I think tons of people can

[lunar night]

its just a guess, what do you think

[covert gorge]

though temps will scale linearly if i remember correctly, i.e 10c rise outside the case = 10c rise inside the case @burnt dune

though that's based on a few factors, like room size, airflow in the room

[burnt dune]

thats what iv heard too

[covert gorge]

thermal trasfer efficiency of the cooler

i.e an aio is thermally more efficient than an air cooler despite transfering the same amount of heat

with air coolers you have a bit more buffer room in comparison

and any pc that would go into a van, ideally the more box like a design, the easier to locate it into a specific mounting solution without it getting damage while optimizing the airflow around it

also where it will be located, you do not want it to be easily visible incase of a break in when you're not at the vehicle

[covert gorge]

not to forget your insurance type will change

[burnt dune]

oh here is that 2nd guy who has a pc in his van

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cIPByfn1-g

i need a better way to narrow down a case i want

i tried with pink cases, but since you can make anything pink, it's honestly fine

[covert gorge]

you could copy most of what this guy did, just not the pc and not the wood burner

but what i would do pc wise, is go for a 7800x3d and a 4080

[burnt dune]

i feel like the 7950x3d is really close in power consumption to the 7800x3d

he went the h500 / h510 which is a 41L case and 90k mm2 footprint

[lunar night]

I dont think you can afford that van

with the modifications*

[burnt dune]

so anything around that size should be okay

[lunar night]

wouldnt be in your price range

[burnt dune]

i dont need all the modifications

especially not right away

ill be fine with a bed and a pc.

[lunar night]

Have you thought about, just buying a cheap truck and using that instead of a van

itd be much cheaper

and wouldnt need things like interior done

you can just put everything in the bed

[burnt dune]

yeah but then ill have to get rid of the truck eventually

[lunar night]

why?

just keep it

[burnt dune]

cause i dont want a truck lol

[lunar night]

But it'll be cheaper than a van?

[burnt dune]

like maybe if i built out a camper on the truck bed

[lunar night]

eventually ig

id just put an extension of bed on so it covers it, and, put all your gear in the back

and some pillows/blanket in the back seat

[burnt dune]

im trying to go cheap as possible on the van cause the first van needs to be cheapo. so that you can go hard on the 2nd van

[lunar night]

why are you making a 2nd van?

then you can put the pc in the bed part

and a monitor in the backseat

[burnt dune]

2nd van will be later when i can save up for like a sprinter or transit new or something

[lunar night]

so yearsin the future

[burnt dune]

like thatll be my house purchase for my life

[lunar night]

ah retirement purchase

so in a decade?

typa purchase

[burnt dune]

yeah maybe. maybe earlier

[lunar night]

maybe later

[burnt dune]

ive had my current car for about 5 or 6 years

[covert gorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZGiBOZkI5w&ab_channel=JayzTwoCents
where he basically says that he had a lot of issues of stability with the X3D when trying to play and stream etc...
He's having problems with the scheduler
Memory stability issues were just skill issue

He's dealing with an issue that's on the 7900x3d and 7950x3d
The 7800x3d doesn't have that
the 7800x3d has one chiplet inside with cores, the 7900/7950 have two different chiplets.

And in Jayz defense, he's right: It was a known headache with the 7900 / 7950x3d from launch. A lot of reviews went into the BIOS and disabled the non-x3d cores to get proper numbers. It was a headache.

Unless they swap the layout to be homoggenous, it'll have this issue (or they get much more intelligent about core allocation)

[lunar night]

why not just get a suv like a 2002 acura, for $1000~

and put the computer/extra stuff inthe trunk

and since its a 7 seater

plenty of space to convert it into a bed in the back

btw @covert gorge americas health system has a method its madness, everything is so overpriced because of insurance companies want to underpay by so much itd make hospitals bankcrupt

so really the prices are for insurance, and, not for normal people

they charge $1000 for literally stickers that are $1-$2

[covert gorge]

yet insurance companies basically tell the hospitals what surgeries are allowed, which no insurance company should be allowed to do, ever

[lunar night]

doctors work for insurance compaonies and not hospitals

insurance pays them, they file there expanses to insurance, they do paperwork for insurance

[covert gorge]

british nhs, despite being broken in areas, still a fuck ton better than the US health care system

[lunar night]

Taxes also higher/vat etc.

[covert gorge]

also what i mentioned about a pacemaker, in the uk privately it would be more like a £30k OP

[lunar night]

pros and cons ig

[lunar night]

sheesh

[lunar night]

hearing aids for insanely almost deaf people, in Europe can go upto $120k per ear

[covert gorge]

higher than 20% ?

[lunar night]

thats for a country that has Good health insurance

[lunar night]

?

[covert gorge]

that's the vat % for the uk

[lunar night]

yea

[covert gorge]

none of this "depends on what state", literally a single vat/sales tax

[lunar night]

even on online things?

[covert gorge]

that would depend on what kind of hearing aid, it can be as cheap as a couple £100

[covert gorge]

even online

[lunar night]

in u.s. we in some states still have no taxes in online purchases

[covert gorge]

and it's already part of the price, not added on after

[lunar night]

yeah thats how steam does it here too

automatically changes it dependent on the state

[burnt dune]

what does he mean when he says 85C is a TJMaxx

[lunar night]

https://search.brave.com/search?q=Core+Temp's+Tj+Max&source=desktop

Ykw, I understand why youre taking so long in the pc now

it all makes sense

It'll be the most expensive purchase you'll make in the rest of your life

thats if you do it

[burnt grove]

if you’re just gonna be a dick then don’t comment. Just cause you don’t like her taking time to choose doesn’t give you the right to be rude for no reason

[burnt dune]

yeah probably

so tj max is the little nickname pc builders give the throttle temp? i wonder why that name.

the tj max ik is a store

that's good to know tho. there is tj max and shutdown temp

does the shutdown temp have a cute nickname too

ah i see. thermal junction

[timber granite]

Any update to the pc?

[lunar night]

? Whose being a dick

[covert gorge]

not what we give, it's the short hand for thermal junction max, but it doesn't denote what the thermal shutdow temp is

and tj max is set by gpu/cpu manufacturers

[timber granite]

Most don’t thermally shut down now, because of the tjmax

Or am I wrong

[covert gorge]

they won't, most will thermal throttle

thermal shutdown is way higher than thermal throttle temps

like i pointed out earlier with thermal throttle being at 95c while thermal shutdown is at 105-115c

[timber granite]

Ok yeah, that’s what I thought

[burnt dune]

so is the tj max real or accurate?

or is it a lie

tj max for 7950x3d is 89C

and the tj max for the 4090 is 93C i think

[covert gorge]

it's real, does not mean it won't do what i said

[timber granite]

Oh shit
https://youtube.com/watch?v=K6FiGEAp928

[covert gorge]

@burnt dune these seem to be way more easier to convert tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpz0Jx1aPto

[dense shale]

What is it?

[timber granite]

The adapter from 8 pins to 12vhpwr is really bad and you should ONLY use an atx 3.0 psu for the 4090

[dense shale]

That what i am using so i am all fine then

I dont trust that sucky adapter in the first place first time i look at it

[timber granite]

Yeah

[dense shale]

Would have been funny if they did a version that put dirrectly a version with the 4 8pin connects dirrectly on the gpu

[covert gorge]

this is more about the adapter that came with the 40 series, and tbh they used 2 different manufacturers, though i could get the corsair gen5 type 4 adapter cable and get the same effect as using any atx 3.0 psu

and tbh, the sideband part of the cable is super dumb and can be grounded out without even needing to be connected to the psu

also, tbh, might sound like a rant coming form me but the change from minifit to nanofit connectors is an issue in of itself

[lunar night]

Too expensive

Look for cheaper

[covert gorge]

you can get them cheap, it's pretty much the same as what that ambulance was

[burnt dune]

im off today

i ended up getting the WFC500 sony headphones for BF

they were $29 so it seemed like a good deal

it's no WF1000XM5 but itll do. i think

afaik, the WF are better than the C

[covert gorge]

personally sennheiser > sony

[burnt dune]

what is sennheiser

[covert gorge]

a headphone and headset brand, well known for their popular hd600 model

[burnt dune]

is there anyway, to actually find how good the model is in the specs?

like is there something in the specs that distinguishes quality

i keep buying earbuds and im trying to compare them

[covert gorge]

bass levels, audio tones, frequency range

you can check reviews

also the audio driver in hows it's made

[burnt dune]

playtime and water resistance are easy. but actual sound seems to be completely lost on me

and different manufacturers use different things

i wish there was something like wifi 6e but instead its just a way of naming audio

[covert gorge]

those ipx4's are kinda shit tbh

[burnt dune]

like oh this has the all new "audio 8x" or whatever

[burnt dune]

this is jlab

i got a jlab set of earbuds last year for $10

and i fucking love them, but i lost them

so i bought them again at full price

[covert gorge]

yes but for a water resistance rating, it makes a set of skullcandy's look good

[burnt dune]

but they sounded different

i saw on the case that it was in chinese instead of english

and all the little details were dfferent

[burnt dune]

is skullcandy good lol

[covert gorge]

cheap but effective, usually at the $/£/€ 6-10 for earbuds

[lunar night]

She's literally comparing $30 headphones. I dont think she needs to know sennheiser

[lunar night]

meh not really

[burnt dune]

nah the c500 is like almost $100

i got it on bf deal

[lunar night]

sennheiser the decent one start at $500

without the amp that is

add on the amp, then other eq stuff another $500

[burnt dune]

but tbh, im kind of happy but kind of disappointed. they sound a little close but a little off to my $10 jlab earbuds

the repurchased jlab earbuds sounded like gluten free tho. omg it was so terrible

[lunar night]

just get airpods at that point

[burnt dune]

im on android

[covert gorge]

$100 tbh

[burnt dune]

im thinking of getting the apple 13 mini

[covert gorge]

though skullcandy's are pretty good for cheap earphones for use with a phone

[covert gorge]

rather not advise someone to get that overpriced ewaste

[long oriole]

Beyerdynamic are cool

[lunar night]

id rather get DT 770 PRO, than $100 senns

That's if going for closed or whatever its called

if you don't care, then the senn + drop headphones are really good

for the price

[long oriole]

i like the DT 880

[lunar night]

Yeah they're good too

What amp do you use?

[long oriole]

i havent got them but have used them before and they were so comfy and so good

[lunar night]

f

[long oriole]

big f indeed

[lunar night]

considering, my headphone ear pads are alone $100

idk, they dont seem too bad

and are decently comfortable enough

• prob the best experience you will have, if you have an iPhone

[covert gorge]

dt 900 is also a good shout from beyerdynamic

[lunar night]

now if you have samsung

yeah dont buy it

[covert gorge]

anker soundbuds

[long oriole]

apparently the dt880 are supposed to be super soundproof

[covert gorge]

hmm, sennheiser hd400 can be gotten for $40-50

[lunar night]

i like closed-back headphones, so thats what i compare it off

and also just overall sound quality

rather go for dt 770 250 ohm

[long oriole]

wdym closed back

[covert gorge]

they look to be closed back

[long oriole]

Oh as in

literally closed back

[timber granite]

Yeah, they have way more sound isolation

[covert gorge]

not sure what i can make of these tbh

[long oriole]

super cheap

good for a budget build

[lunar night]

red is senn

blue is dt 770

[long oriole]

o.o

[covert gorge]

hmm

i know these can be gotten even cheaper but it's like the main go to model for sennheiser

[long oriole]

i currently use turtlebeach headphones lol

[covert gorge]

that is on the same level as using skullcandy's tbh

[long oriole]

only reason why is cus they are deecnt headphones

and plus i use them on xbox and pc

and arent super pricey

[covert gorge]

i use a cheap headset, it has surprisingly decent audio, the only downside is it's mic which i've basically removed from it

[long oriole]

fair fair, my mic is super quiet but i barely talk so its not an issue

[covert gorge]

built a mic instead tbh

[lunar night]

why not use pc38x?

[long oriole]

cool

[covert gorge]

at the time of purchase, those didn't exist, and tbf these have lasted a long while

also making my own mic is way more fun for me

[long oriole]

nice

did u use a kit

or complete scratch

[covert gorge]

different look but basically built this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoQu3XXIayc

[timber granite]

I want to do that one too. I kinda hate the brass look tho tbh

[long oriole]

nice

[covert gorge]

as long as you've got the mounting, and capsule, it's not that hard

[long oriole]

i love network topologies

[covert gorge]

i need to get some extra mesh tbf, so i can have it fully screened in the casing for the amp/preamp and usb unit

[long oriole]

o.O

[lunar night]

Honestly, 100% worth tho making your own

Looks much cooler imo

[covert gorge]

the more handier part is that because i'm a hobiest, i can figure out my own kind of design for it

i grabbed an abs plastic box to mount it all in, but at the same time i can clad it in whatever material i like and it would never look out of place

though due to it being an abs box, i could easily wall mount it

[covert gorge]

better screening inside the box = less emf/emi interferences with the circuitry inside

[long oriole]

mk mk

( i have no idea what yall on about )

[covert gorge]

ever put a mic next to a speaker?

the feedback from that is basically the same

[long oriole]

oh yeah

[covert gorge]

my current project i'm working on is a 5v solar battery bank

[lunar night]

o that sounds fun

[lunar night]

O Rauko, if you were on a budget of $2000, and were making a gpu server for llm, what gpu would you go with? counting the cost for motherboard etc. etc. aimming to get a 70b model to work

[covert gorge]

would have to be an r7/i7 with a x570/z590/z690 mobo, and a couple 1080ti's

if not a pair of 1080ti's then a tesla card + 20 series nvidia

that way you got good processing power with some good gpu's for the compute

basic's of the solar battery bank

[lunar night]

how big is the whole thing?

[lunar night]

How much VRam you'd get?

would it not be better to buy server accelerator cards instead?

[covert gorge]

11gb vram on 1080ti's

[covert gorge]

trouble is, an accelerator card is to assist a card being used

[lunar night]

So you're saying the max VRam youd get in a $2000 budget, would be 22gb??

[covert gorge]

not so much as being the main workhorse for the comput work

[covert gorge]

if you go purely gpu's and not accelrator + gpu, 22-32gb would be what you're looking at

[lunar night]

What would be the best config if you bought everything used?

and dont care about powerdraw

[covert gorge]

going used, definitely would be a tesla + quadro

possibly a t40 + rtx a4000/rtx 4000/4500/5000

[lunar night]

cant you run accelerators standalone?

would it not be theoretically better to run 8 p100s?

[covert gorge]

depending on the size of the data set for it quite likely a gen 4 nvme drive

[covert gorge]

nope, you'd need a gpu to act as an output

[lunar night]

o

[lunar night]

wait t40? as in tesla p40?

[covert gorge]

no as in tesla t40

turing based tesla accelerator cards

24gb vram on them

if money was no limit, i would say an h100/he100 tesla

96gb of hbm2 vram

though it's pcie 5.0 x16

that combined with a 4090 while being somewhat overkill, would give you one hell of a compute advantage

[lunar night]

output as in video output?

ifso you d ont reallyyyy need that

[covert gorge]

yes mainly

[covert gorge]

you sure?

[lunar night]

What do you need it for?

It'll be just in a server rack sitting

[covert gorge]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/tesla-p100-pcie-16-gb.c2888
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/tesla-t40-24-gb.c3942

[lunar night]

1 of them is $800, other is $150

[covert gorge]

wouldn't you need it for when it comes to remote access

[lunar night]

ssh?

[covert gorge]

true, what if you even had to directly access it?

[lunar night]

Unplug a gpu

plugin a random gpu

plugin a monitor

Or use a CPU that has video output?

[lunar night]

this would give a max 40 vram, whilst p100s *7 would give 112

being cheaper than those 2 combined*

[covert gorge]

hmm, what about some radeon instinct mi50's @lunar night

[burnt dune]

ugh i just prefer more bass tbh. it seems that sound quality is still basically entirely subjective.

[covert gorge]

not sure if i answered this, but about the same size as an iphone 6s

[burnt dune]

im guessing the audio quality i got is fine, but its more balanced and high freq

and the lows just arent as low. and the earbuds max volume dont sound as loud

[lunar night]

oo that looks cool

[lunar night]

Dt 770 pro the way to go then

there bass is OP

[lunar night]

Its basically similar to a iPhone 8 plus. does it work yes, is it slow yes, does it have a camera/mic yes, is it that meh not really kinda

[lunar night]

really bad lib support tho

[covert gorge]

slightly better performance over the p100

[lunar night]

btw how performant would 7 p100s be?

in terms of an LLM?

[covert gorge]

2-4 tokens per card from what i've been reading up about it, it would work but it's bit of a slow performer and where it comes to p100's i've seen them being advised as doing no more than 4

[burnt dune]

honestly might get the van first

i saw a box truck conversion today

and he had a full fridge in there with AC a shower, laundry machine, a real regular toilet not a rv toilet

[covert gorge]

a flushing toilet means they have a black water tank that needs to be regularly cleaned out, it also means needing to know all the hook up points that has waste disposal facilities for it

[burnt dune]

once a month

its built out

[covert gorge]

and quite likely involves chemical waste disposal as part of it

[burnt dune]

ik about black and gray tanks

[covert gorge]

then you know a "grey water" take can be filtered and re-used if needs be

[burnt dune]

yep

his black water tank is huge probably

[covert gorge]

it would need to be, also stored under the van

same with the grey water tbh

[burnt dune]

yep

that's where they usually go afaik

im trying to narrow down a vehicle

[covert gorge]

it would need protecting against side impact

[covert gorge]

renault traffic and a prius are well out

[burnt dune]

well out as in they are good

[covert gorge]

as in drop them in a sea and walk away

[burnt dune]

ohh how come

[covert gorge]

skip the honda also

[covert gorge]

for the prius, as they're ev's mainly, cold weather is kinda crappy for them, the renault being french shit isn't cheap in replacement parts

[burnt dune]

ohh okay. i also want walkable

when i checked out that ambulance in person, it wasnt walkable really. it was like on my head

and it is a F350

[covert gorge]

sportsmobile is basically a transit/sprinter converted over to 4x4

[burnt dune]

oh okay

any other recommendations?

im 5'8, i have 2 cars im gonna sell which will add to the budget. i have a cat which wont be a huge problem tbh.

im trying to narrow it down to like 2 - 3 models so that i can buy it on facebook marketplace or something

[covert gorge]

i'm 5'10 so know about height issues when it comes to being walkable inside a van

[burnt dune]

ik a lot of them are fine for our heights but some wont work. i think i really want it to be walkable thats a big deal to me

and i want it used. thats a big deal to me

im okay with financing if it's not 60k

[covert gorge]

v4 transporter's won't be as walkable unless you have the roof converted into being a raisable one

[burnt dune]

so like im open to buying from dealers ig. if it means a title, keys, and i can drive it out. and its like 10k or something. that would be fine too. cause then i can just put my checks on it or something. and deferred payments always have an intrinsic value to them because of the time.

im also thinking of not going VW cause yeah they are so cute but just not realistic for me

what are kelley blue book and what is edmunds?

ive heard of KBB

[burnt dune]

but like

in your own words

so like just research car facilities

🤷‍♀️

[covert gorge]

online sites that you can buy/sell cars on, american form of a couple uk sites i know of

on kelley's the cheapest ford transit is a 2017 high roof at 32k

[burnt dune]

oh i didnt kknow you could buy from them

[covert gorge]

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/591516465 found this, it needs a little work but saves you some effort

lockable sliding side dore, i'd add an extra mag-lock to it

[covert gorge]

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/698109166 <- really workable, needs updating on the interior, would also replace the electrics and ensure they're disconnected from the engine so you could put solar to it

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/658567532<- walkable but the roof needs redoing on it

[cloud totem]

isnt that from ben 10

[covert gorge]

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/691761342 <- honestly a lot better state, would even permanently make the rollers non-moving while adding a side door with retractable steps

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/657977650 another workable one

this comes with a generator that i'd replace personally

if removed completely, you got an ideal slide out draw for batteries to go on that can be insulated

[covert gorge]

https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/698611353 remove the genny in this and the electrics while rebuilding the interior of this, where the genny itself is located, is a great size for electrics setup (batteries, fuseboxes, inverter, solar charger, etc...)

https://www.kbb.com/marketplace/buy/ford/transit-350-hd-van/2016/1FTBF4XV1GKA58939 fort transit long wheelbase, extended with high roof

would need to replace the rear doors but otherwise pretty decent

[covert gorge]

feels it tbh, but no, believe it was a winnebego that was used for that

@burnt dunea few fords there for you to look through

[cloud totem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfTl3yR7MTQ thoughts

[covert gorge]

tempting, though requires you to not go for any thick gpu's nor ones with aio's

i would go matx mobo, sfx psu, with a dual slot gpu

[cloud totem]

small price to pay

[covert gorge]

$240 for the case

[cloud totem]

are we really worrying about $100 atp

[lunar night]

Why?

[covert gorge]

4x p100 = 2x 3090 in performance for a fraction of the cost

though with a tesla/quadro equal to a 3090 you can run heavier data sets from what i i've read at a glance

[lunar night]

I ment why go with only 4

Not 8?

[covert gorge]

the limit is 6 max for nvlink, also from what i've read, so they may be wanting to play it safe when recommending the use of p100's, also the amount of psu's you'd need for that amount of gpu's might be fustratingly to costly

i mean 4x p100 = 1.2kw alone

that's not accounting for any transient spikes they'll have

[lunar night]

So from what I calculated if I have 512gb vram worth of p100s, it’d cost $800 monthly for power

[covert gorge]

that's gonna suck

[lunar night]

Tho the whole system will only be $1.3k each one with 124gb vram

Wat would you do?

[covert gorge]

reduce it

[lunar night]

Wouldnt VRam be the biggest bottleneck?

for running like Llama 2 70b?

or training it

[covert gorge]

either reduce it or find some way of suplimenting the power draw

[covert gorge]

for this it will, they'll be draging it out

[lunar night]

?

ig im trying to get the most vRam/$

[covert gorge]

the library for it is a heavier data set no?

[lunar night]

yea

[covert gorge]

then you'd want to offset it with the extra computing power a newer card has

can't always go more vram via more systems

[lunar night]

o, is there like a sheet of gpu that have what there bottlenecks are etc.?

[lunar night]

why not?

[covert gorge]

was going off quick napkin maths from what i read up last night

[lunar night]

Ah

[lunar night]

What should the balance of VRam to computational power then?

[covert gorge]

form quick maths, aim for half the vram while having higher compute power, alongside that equal amount of system ram

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/efficiently-scale-llm-training-across-a-large-gpu-cluster-with-alpa-and-ray/ some of it is based upon the info this gave @lunar night

[lunar night]

wdym half the vRam?

[covert gorge]

instead of hoping for 512gb total vram, around 256gb vram while maintaining a higher and faster compute power

it'll mean less systems but it'll still be the same power draw per card

[lunar night]

Ah

[lunar night]

How much more computational power?

[covert gorge]

depends on the gpu and core amount realistically

considering 48gb vram is recommended for llama 2 70b

[lunar night]

Sooo like an A4500?

[covert gorge]

pair of them would be ideal

40gb vram total, 35gb for llama 2 70b + 5gb free

[lunar night]

Rather have 2 of them, than, 8 p100s?

[lunar night]

What about running like WizardMath-70b?

still same 35gb vram?

[covert gorge]

half the power consumption, while having nearly 3070ti-3080 level performance per card, though the compute power would be around double roughly

[lunar night]

o

So you don't just want a bunch of vRam?

you also want a bit of computational power?

[covert gorge]

40gb required for this minimum

[lunar night]

ah

[lunar night]

What about training models?

[covert gorge]

from what i can gather, you'd still want 40gb for this

though on the maths one, what ram you're using os going to affect home many tokens per second are created

[lunar night]

plan on going ddr5

maybe ddr4 if it doesnt make too much of a difference

[covert gorge]

quite a difference

[lunar night]

ah

prob gonna go ddr5 then? 128gb?

[covert gorge]

64gb of ddr5

remember, over this and there's issues

r5 7600 or a 13600k basically are the solid options when dealing with ddr5 and doing this

[lunar night]

ah

[covert gorge]

avx512 (2x avx256) on the r5 7600

if you wanted to stick with the p100's though, WizardMath-13B would be ideal

[lunar night]

might go with a4500 if you only need 2 of them too run a 70b model

[lunar night]

isnt that for a single gpu?

[covert gorge]

it doesn't state as a single gpu, so that 12gb could be spread over 2

[lunar night]

ah

[lunar night]

r5 7600x or normal?

[covert gorge]

considering this for the wizzardmath 70b

[lunar night]

ah

[covert gorge]

normal, no need to go for an 'x' sku

though you'd need to get an x670 or z790 if you went intel

[covert gorge]

what they recommend

basically you'll be dual gpu unless you went for the likes of an a6000

i'm barely touching the surface from what i've read on it so far

[lunar night]

what about the normal WizardLM-70B

does it change much?

[covert gorge]

nope, you'd still be wanting 40gb of vram and 64gb of ram

[lunar night]

Would you be able to get more than 2 a4500s per system?

[covert gorge]

you should, but not sure how much compute it will be

power consumption wise it would be better, at 200w per card

though it does mean more costlier systems

in the end the tensor cores are a bigger bonus for you

[lunar night]

o, so yes go more than 2 a4500s per system? or no

itd be very expensive to get 2 systems with 2 a4500s, than to get 1 system with 4 a4500s

[covert gorge]

if you use consumer based setup and add the a4500's, no, if you went hedt or server then you could

the downside with hedt is it's way more expensive and your limit will be ddr4 3200mhz for the better part

[lunar night]

I plan on putting this all in a 4u server

[covert gorge]

that's not the issue, it's the amount of pcie x16 slots that are electrically wired as x16 and not x4 or lower

pcie x8 can be used but it would increase the time

[lunar night]

what mb would support pcie 4.0, 16x? 4 of them

[covert gorge]

threadripper or going server

[lunar night]

whatever is cheaper

[covert gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-gif-4379406930985342655

[lunar night]

xD

can you train an LLM on multiple servers?

connect them with like a 100gbe switch or smt?

[covert gorge]

it looks to be possible, though they'll have to be slaved off to a main setup to control it all

[lunar night]

a 100gbe switch costs, $2.5k, each system would cost without gpu cost, $400~ maybe more/less

cheaper to do that

or

go for more PCie slots in 1 mb

and get more gpus?

that way

[covert gorge]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zQ3bkJ rough estimate for such a build, the rtx4000's are just substitutes for the a4500's so the prices aren't marked up on there

so around 4k before gpu's added to it

this is why i laugh at it being "cheap"

[timber granite]

Intels HEDT platform can be cheaper on the used market and still has a lot of pcie lanes

[covert gorge]

i used the 3000 series threadripper as it was more ideal on amd's side for doing it tbh

shame pcpp doesn't show workstation mobo's on it

though not sure which intel hedt would be wise to select

[timber granite]

7th gen is pretty cheap. A 7920x (and I think x99), is like $300 total, $150 each

X299

[lunar night]

Maybe would be cheaper to go for older hardware, and, find it used?

tho ig wouldnt be as possible cus of ddr5

[timber granite]

That’s what I said

[lunar night]

What about using a770? They're $300, with 16gb VRam per

that'd be $200 cheaper, whilst losing 4gb VRam

[covert gorge]

it's doable, mainly for the normal wizardlm though more around 13b/30b not for 70b

[lunar night]

really? Whats the bottleneck?

[covert gorge]

i suspect lib/ drivers for the gpu's

though it could change when it comes to battlemage gpu's

[lunar night]

howd you figure out what model it could run btw

[covert gorge]

looking at the recommendations for each kind

and then comparing fp16 + fp32

[lunar night]

ah

[covert gorge]

though you'll have to figure out if you'd want to run it at 2bit or 4bit

that'll affect how much vram you'll be using

[lunar night]

What would be better?

4bit?

[covert gorge]

4bit but it will make it work harder if you don't have enough vram

at 2bit you're basically halving the vram needed

[lunar night]

only supports ddr4

[covert gorge]

ofcourse you could train at 2bit first to see how it responds then increase it to 4bit

[lunar night]

and what about a4500?

itll run 4bit better?

[covert gorge]

on it's own, 2 bit, in a pair, 4bit

[covert gorge]

did warn you of this tbf

[lunar night]

True

[lunar night]

2 a4500s = 40gb vRam, 3 a770 = 48gb vRam Around the same price

so im guessing the only downside the a770 is computational power?

[covert gorge]

yup, also singular cards, no syncing

[lunar night]

ah rip

[covert gorge]

remember nvlink is nvidia only and mainly ampere cards (3090 or quadro/tesla versions)

[lunar night]

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-romed8-2t/p/N82E16813140044

nvlink support 7 a4500s?

ifso that motherboard could work

tho only ddr4

[covert gorge]

6 cards max

but you would have to do it as 3 sets of 2

[lunar night]

what would that change?

in terms of nvlink

[covert gorge]

not read up on nvlink, just going by what i read when it came to the p100's

[lunar night]

ah

[covert gorge]

also remember a4500 are dual slot

unless you're going to waterblock them (if that's possible)

[lunar night]

Cant you do 8 p100s with 4 groups? nvlink

and then use like fp16

[covert gorge]

you could

dual slot card still

[lunar night]

could you use that, to use like the math llm?]

[covert gorge]

the normal one yes though you may struggle above 30b

but on wizardlm math 13b would be fine, still might struggle for 70b

[lunar night]

Youre talking about a single card? Or all 8?

[covert gorge]

single and all 8

[lunar night]

Is there any downside in going for 8 A4500?

in 1 system

[covert gorge]

price really

performance wise they'll be decent

[lunar night]

what about price? is it not a decent price to vRam ratio?

[covert gorge]

at the end of the day it's up to you to make the decision

[lunar night]

True, what mb would support that many PCie 4.0 16x?

while being ddr5

[covert gorge]

none, it's only 2x pcie x16 at most

[lunar night]

o.

[covert gorge]

there might be a possiblity of 3x pcie x16 on z790's

[lunar night]

How would you fit 8 of them in 1 server?

unless the motherboard is $2000+, itd be cheaper to do it this way

Tho would need enough ddr5 ram slots, too

[covert gorge]

you would need to custom mount them tbh

[lunar night]

pcie risers

wouldnt be too hard

itd be like mining rigs

but with better pcie

[covert gorge]

or a mining rig server case

https://miningwholesale.eu/product/inter-tech-4u-8-gpu-19-inch-dual-psu-mining-rig-server-case/

[lunar night]

that works

[lunar night]

does it have enough space for the 4500?

[covert gorge]

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4u/4028/SYS-4028GR-TRT2.cfm

[covert gorge]

it should

[lunar night]

How would yoou nvlink 8 gpus?

[covert gorge]

though it now becomes different length riser cables

[covert gorge]

4 + 4, or 8x2

[lunar night]

just normal nvlink no nvlink switches/bridges etc.?

[covert gorge]

you'd use a bridge

like so

[lunar night]

Oh also, about ram

how much do we need for 2, 4, 6, 8?

does it go up

or down?

[covert gorge]

from what i can see, 64gb, and only 2x 32gb kit if ddr5

[lunar night]

how much performance does it lose if we split 1 of the pcie slots in half?

getting a 7 pcie slot mb is much cheaper than 8

[covert gorge]

that you'll need to work out for yourself

[lunar night]

oh btw, with using a bridge so make 4 different groups?

[covert gorge]

yup

[lunar night]

no way to get more gpus in a group? or does it not matter

[solemn saddle]

giyuohijokpl;[]

[lunar night]

since its ampere im guessing its 3rd gen nvlink which supports 12 gpus

[covert gorge]

on the bridge itself no

[lunar night]

any other methods of linking than the bridge?

or does it not matter performance wise too much

[covert gorge]

shouldn't matter so much afaik

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVLink

[burnt dune]

https://ambiguous-hen-8da.notion.site/7078a238f58943f79357a8b15078be2a?v=1527b22f7743484491f31ebe5fbaa622&pvs=4

so far, i think i might be going econoline

i cant find a used ford transit for shit

and if it doesnt cost some money, itll end up being rotted to hell

[covert gorge]

did you look at the ones i linked?

[burnt dune]

these

these look perfect for my frist vehicle

[covert gorge]

and the few above it

there's one there with a couple racks in which you could take advantage of

[burnt dune]

so how do i know if its okay

like what mileage is too much?

[covert gorge]

anything over 200,000 on there is an engine change

[burnt dune]

i heard over 100k was bad

how much is an engine change

[covert gorge]

but a 150-200k you would need to make sure it's been serviced regularly enough

[burnt dune]

also how old is too old

im ironically, not looking for a super fancy vanlife vehicle. i just need something

[covert gorge]

can't say for sure but i would expect $2-5k

[burnt dune]

what make and model is the best value?

[covert gorge]

that you'd have to find out for yourself

[covert gorge]

i would suggest nothing older than 20 years old

[burnt dune]

so nothing older than 2003?

[covert gorge]

that's what i would suggest

puts you at around 100-150k on the clock roughly

[burnt dune]

so nothing from 1990 and nothing from the 80s

and probably not anything from 2000 - 2002

and wdym it puts me at around 100-150k

[covert gorge]

ideally no, not unless you really know what you're doing with the vehicle

[covert gorge]

around 100,000-150,000 miles on the clock

[burnt dune]

https://ambiguous-hen-8da.notion.site/My-Vanlife-Profile-c1cdac4447b5419c89dea1dc1bae60ba?pvs=4

here are my preferences

[covert gorge]

anything older than 20 years would need something 'special' about it to be worth it

[burnt dune]

would you be willing to look at facebook marketplace with me?

anthing nearby toledo

i can drive out tho

so far i have it set to 250 mi radius

[covert gorge]

you would have to send the links, considering anything i see on it would be from the uk

[burnt dune]

you can change location afaik. and you can use it with a facebook account or without signing afaik

i just dont have the same eyes as you

something might be gold for me, and i just wouldnt be able to tell

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/

[covert gorge]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1543661086169279/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1439908373467222/

these have potential, the first one the box above the cab is ideal for a bed to go on

[burnt dune]

yeah these look amazing thank you

were you able to find anything cheaper

[covert gorge]

a couple but one had an odometer issue which i wouldn't touch with a barge pole

saw one for 3k but again it's been sat around for to long to be evenly remotely considered

[burnt dune]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1049919609749935/?ref=category_feed&referral_code=undefined&referral_story_type=listing

what about this one

[covert gorge]

has potential but requires a fair bit of work to make it a fully running vehicle

[covert gorge]

this makes it a NOPE

[burnt dune]

hmm what is a parking brake housing?

[covert gorge]

that could mean it needs the cables recovering/the parking breaks need a complete replacement/the main parking break leaver needs replacing

it also potentially means that the breaks could be ceased up

as they state it needs towing out

as you've not done car maintenance, this would be a biggy for you

[burnt dune]

i feel like towing would only be like $100 tho

yeah i havent

idk where to learn more about cars

but if i knew what i was doing, i could buy better vehicles

and save money

what is the most important factor when buying a used car / vehicle etc

[covert gorge]

the basic's

v5c in the uk = title for america

and MOT = vehicle inspection

though i don't know if americans have that done yearly like we do in the uk

[burnt dune]

im suprised i dont see the year or mileage. i thought those were the most important

is the year more important than the mileage?

or is the mileage more important than the year

[covert gorge]

that's always on the documents for us in the uk, especially as it's in the service history and MOT

[covert gorge]

these are swappable as you can get a low mileage but really old, meaning it's been hardly used much over the years, and then again you could also get a high mileage low years due to how much it's been used

though you have to watch out with older cars if someone's done an odometer change/rollback on an older car

[burnt dune]

are both of these scenarios really good? or really bad?

[covert gorge]

the first is better than the second as there's less wear and tear on the engine but it also means it could have sat around alot so you could have hidden rust/rot due to that

though at the same time, one that's been used alot could have been well maintained for the time it's been used

[covert gorge]

btw

[burnt dune]

people seem to care a lot about whether the vehicle sat around for a long time

but why does that matter

[covert gorge]

brakes can cease, rot via rust sets in, pipes rot

stagnent fuel

[covert gorge]

there's also the state of the tires if it's been left to sit around alot

the very basics of vehicle maintenance is oil checks, coolant checks, windscreen washer checks, and battery is maintained at a full charge and no bulbs are blown @burnt dune

[burnt dune]

cant that all be fixed tho

[covert gorge]

they can, but it also means a fair bit of replacements

[burnt dune]

how bad is rust

i feel like rust cant be that bad

[covert gorge]

rust is the worst as it slowly eats through to the point that the metal work is rotten and turns to dust

which can mean the difference between a small cut out and weld to a complete panel replacements, or a whole new subframe

[burnt dune]

so rust is like an infection

and it keeps going to the entire car

[covert gorge]

the difference between a little surface rust which is easily fixable

and it penetrating through so much you have to fully replace a part

using a screw driver to tap on the rust can help tell you how bad the rust is

if you go through, it's gone to rot, but of chunks come of in flakes, well it's managable still but it's not great, but if it's like fine dust coming off, it's only on the surface

[desert crow]

body panels can be replaced

check the rust on the chassis
if that shit is rusted through then it's a lost cause

[lunar night]

Ducktape it ez

[burnt grove]

I do old truck restoration as a hobby and my tule typically is as long as the firewall isn’t rotted out and the floors don’t have massive holes it’s fixable if you know a decent body guy

My last project you could literally stand on the ground from in the cab. I cut back until I had clean un rusted steel. And welded 1/8 inch steel back in place and it’s as solid as ever

Buttt technically speaking 99% of Rust is fixable. Just avoid vehicles that are older and spent most of their life in the north

[covert gorge]

flintstones moments

[burnt grove]

https://tenor.com/view/yabba-dabba-doo-car-flintstones-gif-14618105

Yabadabadoooo

[covert gorge]

though any vehicle that be near the sea is wise to be weary of tbh

[burnt grove]

Nah I’d worry more of places where it snows a lot

Means there’s a lot of salt on the roads

Regularly

[covert gorge]

and when it's near the sea, it's attacked by salt in the air all the time

[burnt grove]

Meh I’ve bought a truck or two from Florida near Pensacola and they seemed solid

So I have t had that experience

[covert gorge]

despite being in the uk, i'm about a mile from the sea

though still affected by salt in the air from it for where i live

i do have the luxury of woodlands behind me

[burnt grove]

I live in the country 😎

Worst part is stink bugs and pollen

[lunar night]

Pollen my worst nightmare

[burnt grove]

But meh all in all it’s pretty nice

[lunar night]

Fr could go on war with it

[covert gorge]

i get that where i am, though it's barely noticable

[burnt grove]

Not here lol. I have sinus drainage year round rippp

[lunar night]

Same so annoying

[burnt grove]

Luckily it actually drains some of my family simply can’t breath through their noses 6-7 months out of the year

[lunar night]

F

[burnt dune]

is there a LTT but for cars or learning about cars on youtube

or a discord server for learning about vehicles

[lunar night]

For the budget you have it’s best you stick with what Rauko said

[lunar night]

Reddit

[covert gorge]

those vans i linked for where she is, if i was to get them here in the uk, they would only be £500-1,500

[covert gorge]

reddit, or youtube, youtube has millions of vids for car maintenance

covering the basics to full on building from scratch

[burnt dune]

should i buy completely used?
should i buy used and then finance it?

i know i dont want to buy brand new for my first van. cause the price is like $50k-$60k. i want that one day, but i wont have the money until after im able to live in the van and basically not pay rent or electricity. so until that day, i thought used was my only option which is technically true, but now im seeing that i can buy used that has a price tag of only 13k and finance it if i wanted to. so i could put down like 3k, and then just pay the rest off. those ones seem to be from dealers usually, and they are still used but just less issues and more confidence.

buying something used is hard cause idk what im looking for at all. or looking at really.

or i can spend $2k, and just pray lmao.

[covert gorge]

eh, anything around $4k in value just buy outright, you say you got the funds to do it, anything around 8k you can choose to buy straight out or finance it

though personally if i had the funds, i'd just buy it straight out

[burnt dune]

deferred payments in the finance world are loved because they basically have an extra value attached to them because of the time.

im talking about the 13k used + financing options

not the 4k no financing options

and thats another question, am i able to buy the 13k ones outright? even if they want you to finance it.

im asking if i should go for a cheaper 4k one or a medium 13k one.

ik im not going high end with the van. the reason is cause its my first time, and i want to save as much as possible for the future van.

if i go 50k now (which i actually cant even do) then i would have -50k less for the future.
if i go 13k now, then ill have 13k less for the future 50k van.
if i go 4k less now, then thats only really 4k and i get to keep everything else for the future van.

my fear is getting a van that will actually last long enough for the next van. i would hate to end up buying a 2nd used van just for time.

cause the 1st one ended up not being good enough, breaks. if that were to happen i could still live in it for a certain amount of time.

so far, im thinking, buy a cheap used one outright, then save up for the brand new one. so itll be something like the 2026-2030 ford transit or something for like hopefully around 50k still

cause also, ive never really had a vehicle. die die.

idk what happens or what its like

cause if i finance the rest of a medium expensive van, itll be like 13k-20k, i can build credit, and then just pay the rest off when i feel like it. so im pretty sure you can pay more than the monthly payment says to pay too

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/824010259372131/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A146d579f-3062-45ec-aad6-40488b3380cb

theres this sprinter

[covert gorge]

so a mercedes sprinter

[burnt dune]

ig this one is a dodge sprinter not a mercedes

https://ambiguous-hen-8da.notion.site/0d861fd14e3543c2b94cfe9e1e021228?v=1d52464b0011433799e5b03477ef483d&pvs=4

here's what i got going on

[covert gorge]

mercedes benz sprinter

it has the merc emblem

[burnt dune]

ohh yeah im not sure

ive heard weird things about sprinters

like apparently they can be dodge or freightliner too

[covert gorge]

if it don't have one of these on it, it's not a dodge

[burnt dune]

yeah i wonder why they put dodge in the title then

[covert gorge]

merc's (they've never changed the 3 pointed emblem)

in the uk you could get away with something like this for example https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/4903522889771478/ @burnt dune

[burnt dune]

i can do something like that here too. i already asked my HR department if thats allowed for me to park at my store, and they said yes.

but this one is 1997 and 260,000

[covert gorge]

better not let them treat it as "free security"

[burnt dune]

the years are on the cusp which im guessing is fine, but isnt the 260k mileage bad

[covert gorge]

yes, it's known as a horse box

[burnt dune]

what is a horse box and what do you mean by free security

[covert gorge]

normally yes, but at the same time, this would have been looked after better than any van/car

[burnt dune]

why / how

[covert gorge]

a horse box is either a trailer or truck used to transport horses (mainly) to events

[burnt dune]

OHH

thats so cool

[covert gorge]

alot of the time, people who have these and go to events, also do an overnight camping so the trucks that are used for it, also are designed with that in mind

though not sure what kind of license would be needed here for it as they're not a standard truck

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1495385831300239/ like i said in regards to the ford transit

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/714669227231385/ <- same as that ecoliner i linked you but in the uk

[burnt dune]

jesus how much is 1500 euros in usd?

that seems so cheap to me lmao

[covert gorge]

you mean gbp not euros

[burnt dune]

whats gbp

[covert gorge]

we don't use euro's in the uk, that's for other european countries

[covert gorge]

great british pounds sterling

[burnt dune]

damn this is a mandella effect for real

[covert gorge]

and compared to the usd, a stronger currency

[burnt dune]

so how much is 1500 gbp

it says E tho

[covert gorge]

iin usd, it's around 1750-2k

[burnt dune]

oh thats nothing

i wish i lived in england so i can buy a cheap ford transit

[covert gorge]

nope, it says £ not E

[burnt dune]

yeah thats what i meant

it says euros

[covert gorge]

euro = €

[covert gorge]

nope it doesn't

gbp = £

you've never left your state it seems and never been told about other countries currencies

[burnt dune]

oh okay, yeah i feel like i see this £ for euros and for everything all the time

ive left my state

[covert gorge]

it's not, and a shitty take on it

[burnt dune]

its not a take

[covert gorge]

to another state in america?

[burnt dune]

yeah several

[covert gorge]

that's not the same as going to another country

[burnt dune]

well yeah

so anyway, why are vehicles so cheap there?

[covert gorge]

and never the same as learning to convert to that countries currency

[covert gorge]

not cheap when you convert it to other currencies

[burnt dune]

it is tho

you cant find 2k ford transits in my area

[covert gorge]

not left in the same state or same year as that is

[burnt dune]

year and mileage are great wdym

[covert gorge]

a 2k usd van in america is in the same kind of state a £500 van would be here in the uk

[burnt dune]

i cant find ANYTHING like that here

[covert gorge]

look at that ecoline you put in your list that's from 1998

look at the state it is in

[burnt dune]

the state doesnt matter really, all of the stuff in the midwest is priced the same

nothing like that £1500 ford transit tho

so the place you live determines how much you will pay?

why are all the vanlife vehicles so expensive in the states now then?

[covert gorge]

the state it's been left in does matter

[burnt dune]

maybe for like water and rust stuff, but not for what im talking about

[covert gorge]

this is a ton of scale rust that's taken out hlaf the thikness of the panel there

[burnt dune]

what is scale rust

[covert gorge]

hell part of it's so penetrated it nees a complet cut out and welding back in

[covert gorge]

rust that flakes off like bad dandruff

[burnt dune]

is that not the same / different than regular rust?

[covert gorge]

nope, you got 3 main tyes, surface, scale and penetrating

[burnt dune]

oh okay