damn
#building my 1st pc
hollow orchid
lusty tiger
the most frustrating thing about this whole conversation is we recommended that exact kit before she started researching to see if her false belief that "4 sticks are better than 2" was true. turns out it was false, much to the surprise of....no one (except maybe her). all of the research was completely useless.
hollow orchid
so it’s basically
lusty tiger
yeah, sometimes
solar gulch
all the threads or this one in particular?
hollow orchid
the longest thread i’ve seen talked in
solar gulch
the longest thread i’ve seen talked in
the second one of this got i think 60k
i think that was the longest thread shes made
lusty tiger
22k for the 2nd one
hollow orchid
god damn
solar gulch
22k for the 2nd one
which one got 60k?
the third one?
im p sure one got to 60k
or was it the first one?
lusty tiger
None of them
hollow orchid
why would you make multiple threads
lusty tiger
They kept closing
hollow orchid
“part 2”
solar gulch
why would you make multiple threads
cuz they get closed
hollow orchid
ah
hollow orchid
i was about to say is this a movie
lusty tiger
According to random, they close themselves
solar gulch
i was about to say is this a movie
yeah i think so
lusty tiger
Which I don’t believe
solar gulch
yeah
lusty tiger
Yeah, I have an old thread in tech support that’s still open after more than 30 days of inactivity
solar gulch
lol
lusty tiger
Someone’s definitely closing them
solar gulch
fr
arctic lotus
the most frustrating thing about this whole conversation is we recommended that ...
i didnt start researching that because i had a false belief
i started researching it because i was told 4 sticks is better
and i had data to prove that
arctic lotus
i already posted some
lusty tiger
That video from hardware unboxed doesn’t count, because it’s ddr4, and used sr dimms, neither of which you are using
orchid oracle
That video from hardware unboxed doesn’t count, because it’s ddr4, and used sr d...
Exactly- can’t compare 2 different things and say they are the same lol
lusty tiger
in fact, that video is decidedly against using 4 sticks
2x32GB will be dual rank, afaik, meaning 4 sticks would basically halve the transfer speed.
hence why it has been the recommendation from the start
arctic lotus
That video from hardware unboxed doesn’t count, because it’s ddr4, and used sr d...
okay so what did ddr5 do that makes whats been working for all ddr, ddr2, ddr3, ddr4 but doesnt work for ddr5
heres the original kit i selected.
arctic lotus
a 2nd source that says its slot 2 and 4
i could always get 4 modules and do my own testing
then i could see for suree
the neos seem to be better than regular tridents
arctic lotus
i cant find who said that the dram ic is gigabit instead of bits
but it's definitely not lmao
its only bits
4b, 8b, 16b
i was told that ranks dont matter for the capacity which is true
cause you can have 2gb capacity dual rank
not on ddr5 tho and im guessing its old
but still
but the bit organization does determine which number the capacity uses
the factor
so like the 32GB capacity can use 4, 8, or 16b dram ics
but its cause thats the data width
and the row length seems to be 128M
topaz solstice
no, apply some common sense, and just go for 2x32gb
topaz solstice
okay so what did ddr5 do that makes whats been working for all ddr, ddr2, ddr3, ...
having 2x 32 bit bus instead of 1x 64 bit bus which allows for a max of 256GB of capacity instead of 128gb total despite consumer mobo's being rated for 128gb max anyways
arctic lotus
having 2x 32 bit bus instead of 1x 64 bit bus which allows for a max of 256GB of...
if this is the reason can you explain it more. i dont see how this would make 4 sticks worse on ddr5
so does ddr4 and below just not have all that going on
topaz solstice
nope considering 8k video would take up 2-4tb of storage space alone
topaz solstice
so does ddr4 and below just not have all that going on
ddr4 was a major improvement itself tbh, ddr5 even more improvement
arctic lotus
well why was 4 sticks able to push higher performance irl up until ddr4
kind bane
ddr4 was a major improvement itself tbh, ddr5 even more improvement
It’s a little less stable tho
topaz solstice
previous generation's limits where 32gb max for ddr3 though most consumer boards where maxed out at 16gb, ddr2 it was 8gb, ddr1 it was only 2-4gb
topaz solstice
well why was 4 sticks able to push higher performance irl up until ddr4
they weren't higher performance but it was the only way to increase capacity
kind bane
Wrong chat mb
topaz solstice
delete it then
kind bane
delete it then
I was struggling to 💀
arctic lotus
they weren't higher performance but it was the only way to increase capacity
its not about the capacity
topaz solstice
https://youtu.be/dhMYmEu8gks?si=UJ6Guwe5EB_cQsaA
ddr4 only does not count for ddr5
topaz solstice
its not about the capacity
it is more so, considering the highest capacity stick for consumer use is 32gb on ddr4
and with that it had issues doing 4 sticks
arctic lotus
like if theres no reason
then there is no reason for me to not go 4 sticks for ddr5 then
it doesnt matter if the number of memory transfers are lower, if its still performing better than 2 sticks
kind bane
topaz solstice
also, HUB talks about matched modules there
topaz solstice
that means the i'c on the sticks are a fully matched pair meaning the ic's on the stick themself are identical
topaz solstice
Cause it’s easier to just get more in the future
not so with ddr5
kind bane
not so with ddr5
Idk anything about ddr5 tbf
topaz solstice
Idk anything about ddr5 tbf
4x ddr5 = greatly reduced speeds, and the chances of it only showing half the full capacity
kind bane
Bruh
kind bane
Yeah 2x is just fine
topaz solstice
she's been told to do 2x 32gb as it is
it's a little overkill for most, but 64gb total is ideal for what she wants to do with her pc
arctic lotus
for sure not doing 2x32gb
kind bane
Why
arctic lotus
the minimum i will do is 2x48gb
arctic lotus
im not saying that
topaz solstice
the minimum i will do is 2x48gb
and with 7000 series's imc that will be iffy, if not unfeasable
arctic lotus
im just asking for an explaination since ddr4 and prior does better with 2dpc
arctic lotus
and with 7000 series's imc that will be iffy, if not unfeasable
no, cause it will still be dual rank
topaz solstice
im just asking for an explaination since ddr4 and prior does better with 2dpc
before ddr4 you could run unmatched sticks and it be ok, though the voltages on them was higher
topaz solstice
no, cause it will still be dual rank
dual rank wouldn't matter there, it migh not even post
arctic lotus
ive seen 1.5v on ddr5 and its apparently really high
topaz solstice
it's first gen ddr5 imc for amd, not second/third gen
topaz solstice
ive seen 1.5v on ddr5 and its apparently really high
ddr2 was 3,3v
kind bane
Just get two sticks
topaz solstice
ddr3 was around 2v
kind bane
The performance wouldn’t be that noticeable and it will be a lot more stable
topaz solstice
ddr4 is 1.25-1.45v depending on on xmp profile for certain speeds
kind bane
The performance wouldn’t be that noticeable and it will be a lot more stable
I’m assuming at least
topaz solstice
I’m assuming at least
for 2x16gb and 2x 32gb definitely
2x 24gb and 2x 48gb the jury is out on that
kind bane
2x 24gb and 2x 48gb the jury is out on that
Why would you even get 24gb and 48gb in the first place 💀
topaz solstice
they might be a pair but at the same time, they could work like someone who tried to do triple channel but put the imc into running as hybrid/flex mode instead which on a very new let alone established imc is not good
topaz solstice
Why would you even get 24gb and 48gb in the first place 💀
because it's possible to do so now in consumer space and because people when using ddr4 kept mixing ram capacities
kind bane
because it's possible to do so now in consumer space and because people when us...
Just because it’s possible doesn’t mean you should do it 😭
topaz solstice
Just because it’s possible doesn’t mean you should do it 😭
yup, esecially in the case of ram and a first gen imc
we'll see any imc issues fixed with 8000 series ryzens for ddr5 like amd did with 2000 series that fixed the issues 1000 series ryzen had
naive robin
Why would you even get 24gb and 48gb in the first place 💀
24GB and 48GB DIMMs have been found to actually clock and be stable at higher frequencies than some 16GB and 32GB DIMMs
topaz solstice
24GB and 48GB DIMMs have been found to actually clock and be stable at higher fr...
that's more with intel than amd though right?
desert mist
Not sure why you’re still talking about it but if you’re on am5 and install a 4 stick kit of ram. You’re most likely not gonna boot unless you declock the ram significantly
And even then there’s a good chance you’ll have errors constantly without tuning. Idc what someone told you that 4 sticks is better it’s simply not on am5 . Watch JayzTwoCentz he made several videos about his 7950x and 7950x3d just simply not working with 4 sticks
orchid oracle
@arctic lotus it’s a different technology altogether- even the DIMM slot is a slightly different shape I’m pretty sure. So you can’t use ddr4 research - it won’t apply the same way in ddr5
lusty tiger
afaik, it’s the same size, but the notch is in a different spot
But literally everything else about ddr5 is different from ddr4
Someone I was talking to a while ago said they got the ddr4 version of a z790 (I think) and put ddr5 in it. I was like, “uhhhh, that’s not how it works.”
arctic lotus
<@841694455747706911> it’s a different technology altogether- even the DIMM slot...
i know they are different
but i want an explanation as to why 4 sticks stopped pushing performance cause that speed reduction happened on ddr4 so ive discovered too, but the 4 sticks was still better.
wait yeah
i think that p much solves it for me
buildzoid was doing a video on ddr4 and shows how 4 sticks still lowered the jedec
but people have done tests with 4 sticks and have shown that the performance still improves even on dual channel
lusty tiger
but i want an explanation as to why 4 sticks stopped pushing performance cause t...
It has never been more performance
lusty tiger
but people have done tests with 4 sticks and have shown that the performance sti...
That’s with single rank dimms, which you aren’t using as 32GB modules are dual rank
arctic lotus
thats not what im seeing at all
arctic lotus
That’s with single rank dimms, which you aren’t using as 32GB modules are dual r...
well that's also what i thought, but if that was the case, then the speed wouldnt be reduced
and 4 sr actually performs worse / par with dual rank
lusty tiger
Regardless, there’s no point in getting 4 sticks unless you need 128GB of ram, which you don’t
Hence why 2x32GB, like we’ve been saying all along
naive robin
For what it's worth,
4 sticks of SR and 2 sticks of DR will perform identically, provided you match speed and timings
4 sticks of DR will have a small advantage over 4 sticks of SR, but you will be extremely hard-pressed to find a situation that actually shows your that advantage
arctic lotus
whats the small advantage
naive robin
Like maybe a tiny little increase in bandwidth
arctic lotus
ive seen people talk about bandwidth increase
naive robin
It is almost negligible
Only really noticeable with benchmarking programs like y-cruncher, linpack extreme and aida64
arctic lotus
also this says to fill slots 2 and 4
arctic lotus
https://youtu.be/3vQwGGbW1AE?si=fDE-4UALUj3FxkRq
^
lusty tiger
also this says to fill slots 2 and 4
Yes
arctic lotus
lusty tiger
To avoid signals “bouncing off” the empty end slot of each channel
arctic lotus
then why were you guys saying to fill slots 1 and 3
lusty tiger
We weren’t
arctic lotus
lmao
lusty tiger
At least I wasn’t
arctic lotus
To avoid signals “bouncing off” the empty end slot of each channel
this is literally what i was trying to talk about
but i got gaslighted into believing it wasnt even real
lusty tiger
When
naive robin
I mean no one said you should use slots 1 and 3 at all
arctic lotus
that's not what i was told in here
i basically got told that i was wrong for saying to use slots 2 and 4
and that everyone knows its slots 1 and 3
lusty tiger
That was a troll or an idiot
arctic lotus
and then they started going on about t top, and daisy chain as if i wasnt talking about daisy chain.
and then i said
well i am talking about daisy chain
then we settled at
both daisy chain 1 + 3 or 2 + 4 exist
which they didnt really settle
they just said, 2 + 4 basically doesnt exist and no one does that
i said A2 and B2 but that's the same thing as slot 2 and 4
some people say slot 0 and 1
or like left and right
arctic lotus
then we settled at
both daisy chain 1 + 3 or 2 + 4 exist
which they actually do
they said it depends on the mobo, which ig it does
lusty tiger
fym daisy chain
arctic lotus
daisy chain just means the 2nd slot is connected to the first slot
naive robin
There has been a huge misunderstanding somewhere yesterday then lol
arctic lotus
first slot is connected to the cpu
naive robin
Because no one ever said to use slots 1 and 3 for your setup
Rauko was explaining that the possibility for RAM slots to be like that exists on older motherboards, hence why they said to check your motherboard's manual often
arctic lotus
okay so basically whichever one is wired to the cpu first, dont use that one
which can be slot 1 and 3 or 2 and 4
but you want to use the opposite to avoid the bounceback data loop issue thing which ive known about for a long time
lusty tiger
basically use slot 2 and 4 going left to right
naive robin
Slots 2 and 4 are the last slots in the daisy chain almost always for every single modern motherboard
pale tulip
that's not what i was told in here
no one ever said that
pale tulip
show me the message where someone explicitly said "use slots 1 and 3"
arctic lotus
i already wasted like an hour with this person
aint no way in hell im scrolling and searching for this
lusty tiger
yeah which means that slot 1 and 3 are wired directly to the cpu
theyre all wired directly to the cpu
arctic lotus
nope they areent
lusty tiger
yes they are
arctic lotus
maybe i shouldnt take the 2+4 advice if you are saying this lmao
pale tulip
maybe i shouldnt take the 2+4 advice if you are saying this lmao
ok go use 1 and 3
arctic lotus
they are only all wired directly if it is t topology
lusty tiger
2 to channel 1, and 2 to channel 2 (for a 4 dimm board)
lusty tiger
💀
arctic lotus
anyway, so what you are saying is if 2 and 4 are wired directly then i should use slots 1 and 3 then, since the bounceback would happen on slots 1 and 3 in that case
lusty tiger
theyre all wired directly to the cpu, but since signals can bounce off the last slot if its empty, its best to use slot 2 and 4
arctic lotus
2 to channel 1, and 2 to channel 2 (for a 4 dimm board)
idk what else to tell you besides repeating that t top is all 4 wired directly again lmao
daisy chain isnt
naive robin
theyre all wired directly to the cpu, but since signals can bounce off the last ...
Their current issue is your wording
Slot 1 and slot 2 are connected together, slot 1 is connected to the CPU
Slot 3 and slot 4 are connected together, slot 3 is connected to the CPU
arctic lotus
i mean ik 1 and 2 are channel 1 and 3 and 4 are channel 2
lusty tiger
and there is no difference in performance between the two, other than the signal bouncing on slot 2 and 4 if they're empty
arctic lotus
actually there is performance differences across all gens for
t top
daisy chain
and 1dpc
1dpc would be matx and itx
lusty tiger
tf is t top
arctic lotus
t topology
naive robin
You can get 1DPC ATX boards
arctic lotus
ohh cool
naive robin
tf is t top
T topology, daisy chain and 1DPC all refer to memory trace layouts on motherboards
naive robin
actually there is performance differences across all gens for
t top
daisy chai...
The performance difference is a result of the layout, not an intended feature
naive robin
Not always, some AM4 boards used T-topology layouts
arctic lotus
its a slight perf diff
naive robin
The performance difference comes from the frequency limit implied by the topology
arctic lotus
oh cool thats hopeful
naive robin
The latency difference of maybe like 2ns won't affect pretty much anything at all
lusty tiger
idk why we're even having this conversation. There's literally no point.
naive robin
oh cool thats hopeful
There are no T-topology DDR5 motherboards for consumers
arctic lotus
thats alright
naive robin
Even server boards use daisy chains afaik lol
pale tulip
idk why we're even having this conversation. There's literally no point.
so she can use slots 1 and 3
naive robin
T topology just doesn't work at DDR5 speeds
arctic lotus
so she can use slots 1 and 3
well i wouldnt plug into 1 and 3
naive robin
Woopy
pale tulip
mb
arctic lotus
i p much planned on plugging into 2 and 4 but multiple people told me not to do that
p much everyone
lusty tiger
they're wrong
naive robin
(no one said not to do that at all)
pale tulip
ive been copying math homework for the past 2 hours i cant handle anything anymore
lusty tiger
afaik, everyone has said 2 and 4, if any at all
gentle elm
2 and 4 is always the best for dual channel
naive robin
Rauko introduced the concept of why you shouldn't use slots 1 and 3, and to refer to the motherboard manual to make sure you use the correct slots (which will be 2 and 4 for the majority of cases)
lusty tiger
"rtfm" xD
pale tulip
yeah
he said some use 1 and 3
lusty tiger
when they're wired backwards
as in 1 + 3 going left 2 right is actually 4 + 2 electrically
gentle elm
Nobody knows your the one who asked it
arctic lotus
what does rtfm mean
lusty tiger
you asked that before
pale tulip
read the manual
lusty tiger
read the fucking manual
pale tulip
dementia is strong in here
lusty tiger
we are insane?
naive robin
We just have the idea that some things should be researched individually, and maybe require correction after the fact
And also the idea that you don't need to know everything
Because you're currently trying to compress a university semester's worth of information into a few discord threads atm
arctic lotus
yeah you wont admit you were wrong even after i have proven myself right even though im the one learning
that's fucking nuts
i LITERALLY
did my own research
used google for hours
then came to THIS THREAD
and came to confirm
is it slot 2 and 4
was told no
then did more research
naive robin
(no one said no)
naive robin
Rauko suggested that depending on your motherboard it may be different, hence reading the manual
arctic lotus
which is what i literally ALREADY SAID
omg
i literally linked to it
and then you guys are IN MID CONVERSATION
literally
like oh okay so it is 1 and 3
pale tulip
Because you're currently trying to compress a university semester's worth of inf...
just for it to be the same end result, just with the journey being 10x longer :3
arctic lotus
and then i link to my question
pale tulip
like oh okay so it is 1 and 3
wat
arctic lotus
and then you guys are like oh lets change the subject
gentle elm
Why the hell are you going off on everyone helping you
gentle elm
did my own research
Yeah most of your research is wrong
naive robin
wtf do you guys think this question is then
Creeperboy's statement was phrased incorrectly but isn't wrong
gentle elm
i wouldnt quite say that
A good amount of it was when we were doing storage now it’s much less but still a little
naive robin
All RAM slots are corrected directly to the CPU (because they're all just wires connecting RAM slot to CPU lol)
arctic lotus
as in 1 + 3 going left 2 right is actually 4 + 2 electrically
here and i literally asked this#1153136851431989259 message
i was literally told that most used 1 and 3
i was told most didnt use 2 and 4
lusty tiger
i was literally told that most used 1 and 3
I did not say that
arctic lotus
no not you
lusty tiger
Unless you read my message completely backwards
arctic lotus
wow fucking shocker
lusty tiger
That’s what you said
arctic lotus
i was right from the fucking start
naive robin
No one said otherwise good grief
arctic lotus
so if it was flipped then, im asking now, would it be the opposite then
if it was wired 2 and 4 first
that would be the 1 and 3 case that rauko said
lusty tiger
Because (on some motherboards) slot 1 from the left might be slot 4 electrically, and slot 3 from the left might be slot 2 electrically
arctic lotus
alr im golden
naive robin
If the trace went to slot 2 first, then slot 1, you'd use slot 1
Always use the end of the daisy chain
arctic lotus
but usually its wired to slot 1 and 3 which means you plug in 2 and 4
pale tulip
took long enough for the same answer 
arctic lotus
probably most likely know where i will plug in when i build it
naive robin
They still need to pick some RAM and it's recommended to get either a 2x32 or 2x48GB kit of 5600-6000 C30-36
If you're adamant on getting that much RAM
lusty tiger
g.skill trident 2x32 6000MT/s cl30 just like I linked when the ram conversation first started
arctic lotus
They still need to pick some RAM and it's recommended to get either a 2x32 or 2x...
from those benchmarks it shows the 5600 is better for tuning since it has the base CL of 28
naive robin
Well, you can find a 5600 C28 kit, you can find a 5600 C48 kit
arctic lotus
im not doing cl48
lusty tiger
Amd said thenselves that 6000 cl30 is the best for am5
pale tulip
from those benchmarks it shows the 5600 is better for tuning since it has the ba...
ok but if u wanna tune, go with the 5600cl46 or whatever teamgroup kit
arctic lotus
the 5600 cl28 kits seem to have poorly optimized timings
lusty tiger
I would not recommend tuning for a first time builder ngl
arctic lotus
ok but if u wanna tune, go with the 5600cl46 or whatever teamgroup kit
why that one
pale tulip
kinda guaranteed hynix or whatever
arctic lotus
I would not recommend tuning for a first time builder ngl
well i am going against that
im gonna tune
its final
pale tulip
topaz solstice
oh cool thats hopeful
when the slots are back to front
arctic lotus
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/QVwmP6/teamgroup-t-create-classic-64-gb-2-x-32-...
okay yeah i acknowledge its existence
topaz solstice
older board but the slots go 4,3,2,1 and not 1,2,3,4
which is why i kept stating to read the manual
topaz solstice
ive read dozens of manuals lol
there are some older boards that do 1,3,2,4
desert mist
All the gigabyte boards I’ve used are 2nd and 4th from the CPU no matter the naming of the slots
arctic lotus
okay good to know
arctic lotus
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/QVwmP6/teamgroup-t-create-classic-64-gb-2-x-32-...
so everyone is going cl46 for tuning?
for the die ig
pale tulip
+its cheap
topaz solstice
okay good to know
and personally i've experienced it on a mobo that wouldn't post unless you installed the ram into slot 1+3 first before adding into 2+4
arctic lotus
ik micron dies are bad
pale tulip
listing says hynix ic
lusty tiger
I’m not gonna stay around for this. Someone ping me when ram is decided.
topaz solstice
ik micron dies are bad
lol no
topaz solstice
for ddr5.. ehhh
they have a 2x24gb and 2x48gb kit that can oc
though it seems to run better on intel currently afaik
topaz solstice
yeah thats fine i will
4,2,3,1 combo for ram layout
if i remember this was a mobo that used T-topology, the b650 version should be daisy chained instead as normal
yup daisy chainned on this
topaz solstice
okies
ram wise, all i'll suggest is getting what will run straight away for them that they can enable expo and forget about it
which will be 6000 cl30
arctic lotus
4,2,3,1 combo for ram layout
so in this case you would plug into both far left (4) and the left slot (2)
topaz solstice
so in this case you would plug into both far left (4) and the left slot (2)
essentially yes
arctic lotus
which means the channels are fingered and split
topaz solstice
also my ram recommendation won't change
arctic lotus
but its t top anyway too so ig any slot is fine
naive robin
You still want to use both channels
arctic lotus
oh yeah
where can i read about dies
i need to learn about all the dies and how people see them
naive robin
DDR5 one doesn't exist yet
The DDR4 one is outdated
Die information is mostly word of mouth and spending too much time in overclocking focussed discord servers
lusty tiger
But it shouldn’t matter anyway. Just get 6000cl30 and use expo
arctic lotus
okay so if it is word of mouth, what are the types that i should know about
lusty tiger
I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again.
Use this kit and be done with it
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374383?
arctic lotus
lmao
naive robin
The ones that run EXPO that is all
If you're adamant on manually overclocking your RAM and spending 3-7 days ensuring stability, then you're looking for a kit equipped with Hynix Rev. M or Rev. A dies
How do you know which kits have which dies?
You don't, it's a diceroll within each speedbin
Samsung B-die (DDR5) doesn't tend to hit 6000 so getting a 6000 kit like Creeper has been suggesting eliminates that possibility
But other than that, there is no way to make sure
topaz solstice
found this on an OC'ing server, buildzoid cheatsheet for ddr5
naive robin
No
arctic lotus
just those 3?
naive robin
They're the 3 manufacturers currently making DDR5 ICs
arctic lotus
and any other ones are bad basically
lusty tiger
Random is saying that they’re the only 3
topaz solstice
Which is funny cause DDR4 B-die is the best DDR4 IC
didn't buildzoid rate djr's higher over samsung?
naive robin
didn't buildzoid rate djr's higher over samsung?
DJR can go turbo fast but does so at very high timings
B-die goes quite fast at extremely low timings
hollow orchid
god damn 6444 messages
lusty tiger
All of this literally keeps pointing to that g.skill kit
arctic lotus
what is djr
that trident neo is really good
i just might go the 2x48 version of it
naive robin
DJR is a die type, DDR4, produced by SK Hynix
lusty tiger
As long as it’s expo setting works well
steel sapphire
dang i missed an argument
lusty tiger
You didn’t miss anything
The best option was the same before and after
The argument didn’t change anything, besides making several people annoyed
onyx jay
DJR is a die type, DDR4, produced by SK Hynix
Werent they getting ddr5
lusty tiger
Werent they getting ddr5
Yes, just talking about the “best” ram ic, and how the manufacturer is way different between ddr4 and ddr5
onyx jay
Ah
arctic lotus
DJR is a die type, DDR4, produced by SK Hynix
is there any djr for ddr5
arctic lotus
Yes, just talking about the “best” ram ic, and how the manufacturer is way diffe...
so ik now that there is micron hynix and samsung. and samsung has the worst ones.
is hynix just the best?
lusty tiger
hynix a and m
lusty tiger
this may be useful
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ywa4yv/identify_ddr5_adie/
if its true
naive robin
is there any djr for ddr5
Not at all
Hynix does A die and M die
M die is better
DJR, MJR, 1JR, CJR...etc are all DDR4
idk their DDR3 naming schemes
steel sapphire
the die bin usually doesnt matter tho unless youre overclocking
lusty tiger
That’s exactly what she wants to do
steel sapphire
ok then ignore my previous message
arctic lotus
okay so what about micron dies?
arctic lotus
i mean i didnt know no one knew about micron die
lusty tiger
basically no one knows about any die, because basically no one cares. its not necessary
arctic lotus
ive been told the opposite
lusty tiger
any 6000MT/s CL30 kit will be fine for most people
solar gulch
no way
arctic lotus
so bg is usually for bank group
and bk is usually for bank
do bank groups always have 4 banks
steel sapphire
look it up yourself this isnt google
solar gulch
ong
lusty tiger
do bank groups always have 4 banks
I’ll be honest, I have no idea what any of those are, yet my pc is perfect for me. You do not need to research this much
topaz solstice
ive been told the opposite
the only ones that care the most are really into OC'ing
naive robin
basically no one knows about any die, because basically no one cares. its not ne...
Take a step back at this point tbh
Like of course they don't even need to know about bank groups or banks or any of this
I'm a RAM overclocker and I couldn't care less (and don't know) about how many banks and bank groups my RAM has
But I just answer their questions cause it's faster than just repeating the same correct answer to a question that should be being asked
arctic lotus
so when they say fclk that is frequency
how can the fclk be at 1900 Mhz if the ddr4 is at 4000. wouldnt it be 2000 mhz
even last gen 4x dr sticks were possible
2dpc quad rank config performed on par or better than 1dpc dual rank config
so im kind of wondering, why ddr4 or last gen cpu imc's were able to do quad rank config just fine.
and ddr5 magically cant
maybe its that speeds are so high now or capacities are so high now idk
or maybe the imcs are generally worse
topaz solstice
how can the fclk be at 1900 Mhz if the ddr4 is at 4000. wouldnt it be 2000 mhz
depends on the stick and the cpu, some will do a 1:1 so flck will be 2000mhz on a 4000mt/s kit, while on many it'll be a 2:1 ratio where it can be anywhere up to 1900 on flck while the ram runs at 4000mt/s
topaz solstice
xmp is the profile
arctic lotus
does expo use the same naming schemes
topaz solstice
1:1 is the ratio of how the flck runs alongside the frequency of the ram
arctic lotus
okay cool
topaz solstice
does expo use the same naming schemes
that's just a different name for the same predone overclock profile for ram
naive robin
how can the fclk be at 1900 Mhz if the ddr4 is at 4000. wouldnt it be 2000 mhz
2000 MHz stable was extremely rare
arctic lotus
is the ddr5 kit with cl30-38-38-38-96-96 timings the same as the ones on pcpp that say it's timings are 30-38-38-96
naive robin
You can desync the FCLK from the MCLK, or run it in 2:1 mode (2000MHz RAM would run the IMC at 1000MHz)
Both of which gigantically reduce performance
naive robin
is the ddr5 kit with cl30-38-38-38-96-96 timings the same as the ones on pcpp th...
Considering the first 3 numbers barely matter and any remaining numbers barely matter even less, they're functionally identical
arctic lotus
are there any timings that arent tuneable
naive robin
Depends on platform, but yes
arctic lotus
im guessing cl you can't change
naive robin
The timings that truly matter for performance are:
RRDS, RRDL, FAW, RFC, REFI
And you can change all the primaries, secondaries, and most of the tertiaries
Changing CL does little to help performance anyway lol
arctic lotus
when i tune my kit i will get more into that
naive robin
CL, RCDRD/RCDWR, RAS, RP, RC
All those are primaries and they barely matter for performance
Except RCDRD, that matters just a tiny bit more ig
arctic lotus
basically there are 5 ddr5 6000 kits in this benchmark and i want a specific one
ddr5 6000 cl30 38 38 38 30 68 (buildzoid's timings)
ddr5 6000 cl30 38 38 38 96 96
ddr5 6000 cl30 36 36 36 76 112
ddr5 6000 cl40 40 40 40 76 116
ddr5 6000 cl40 40 40 40 80 144
im trying to find the 96 96 ones on pcpp
naive robin
You won't find buildzoid's timings in a public kit fwiw
naive robin
Also does it matter what kit you get?
So long as its M die you can just punch in the timings from Buildzoid's video lol
arctic lotus
i guess just a better open box experience
does that mean those are part of the ones i can change
naive robin
How do you mean?
naive robin
i guess just a better open box experience
All RAM has the same open box experience
You put it in your computer, enable EXPO and forget about it lol
arctic lotus
the cl40 kits did worse. but the 76-112 kit also did worse.
are you saying that the numbers dont matter cause i could just get a 76-112 kit and punch in the timings to make it a 96-96 kit instead? (i might as well do the 30-68 buildzoid timings if i do that ((ik it's more than just 2 numbers)))
naive robin
Yeah of course
arctic lotus
oh cool
naive robin
The timings are just what the manufacturer programs into the EXPO profile
arctic lotus
so i could get a cl40 kit and tune it to cl30 if i wanted to?
naive robin
You just need to make sure that the RAM can handle the tighter timings
Because if you're manually tuning, you may as well go all the way
naive robin
so i could get a cl40 kit and tune it to cl30 if i wanted to?
Provided the RAM can actually handle doing that, yes
It's not guaranteed
naive robin
Buildzoid's timings work generally
But there will always be the exception
arctic lotus
but without knowing, you wouldnt know
naive robin
Yeah the speeds and timings listed in each listing are just what the EXPO profile is programmed for
It's not a hard limit for the RAM
It has the potential to go significantly faster, or it may already be at its limit
arctic lotus
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/hRQcCJ/gskill-trident-z5-neo-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-f5-6000j3040g32gx2-tz5nr
this kit says it's timings are 30-40-40-96
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RbTZxr/corsair-vengeance-rgb-96-gb-2-x-48-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-cmh96gx5m2b6000c30
this kit says the timings are 30-36-36-76
naive robin
And they could be using the same RAM die
One could be some Micron thing, one could be some Hynix thing
No way to know lol
arctic lotus
so it basically doesnt matter what the open box timings are. cause you can tune it. and then it will perform identical as long as it can pull off those exact same timings. ik if all the numbers arent the same then it wouldnt and theres a lot of variables. but theoretically
so yeah dram ics too will add variation
arctic lotus
honestly i just like the way the corsair vengence looks more
the rgb is all the way across
arctic lotus
As does your motherboard and BIOS
but as far as timings go, i can basically turn a cl30 36 36 36 76 112 into a cl30 38 38 38 96 96
naive robin
You could
Dunno why you'd stop there though
30 36 36 36 30 68 is an option lol
As is 28 36 36 36 30 70
Literally any set of numbers 🤷
arctic lotus
i wouldnt stop there, but this is good to know
so if i plan to tune anyway, dont worry so much about timings
arctic lotus
cause they tuned a 5600 kit too and it did better than buildzoids timings on the 6000
tbh i think it's cause the cl28 hurts the timings somewhere unless the whole kit is tuned properly. so maybe the 6000 kit could tune better than the 5600 kit if you did cl28 which also did 34 34 34 instead of 36.
but yeah ik it's more about the rest, like the secondary and tertiary
naive robin
Most timings don't have any relation to each other
arctic lotus
i wonder why those tuned 5600 kits performed better than those tuned 6000 kits
maybe he manually tuned the 5600 kit and the buildzoid timings were used for the name and just were as good as he could have made them for his specific system
and then after i build my pc i can compare my performance to the tests
arctic lotus
Just make sure you get a kit that has Hynix M-die
yeah so the die matters more basically
naive robin
maybe he manually tuned the 5600 kit and the buildzoid timings were used for the...
CPU FCLK could've been pushed higher for the other tests, making it perform better 🤷
FCLK for AM5 CPUs are permanently desynced from the MCLK anyway so you can just push them as high as possible
arctic lotus
whats the difference between the fabric clock and the memory clock
naive robin
Infinity Fabric is the interconnect between the CCDs and the IOD (and the various bits of the IOD)
Memory Clock is the frequency of the RAM and the IMC as a result
UCLK (IMC clock) and MCLK are usually always synced
arctic lotus
i thought fclk was the frequency
topaz solstice
i thought fclk was the frequency
of the infinity fabric
naive robin
F(abric) CLK
M(emory) CLK
arctic lotus
so the uclk is the imc
naive robin
It's the frequency of the IMC, yes
arctic lotus
that vengence kit says it needs 1.4v is that alot
topaz solstice
that vengence kit says it needs 1.4v is that alot
not really no
naive robin
If anything that's kinda low for DDR5 is it not?
pale tulip
it seems to be normal for 6000cl30 or similar
topaz solstice
If anything that's kinda low for DDR5 is it not?
nah, about average from the looks of it, i mean the jedec voltage is only 1,1v if i remember correctly
xmp voltage being 1.25v+
hazy hedge
Buy anything yet?
hazy hedge
If you know what you using for sure then buy it
lusty tiger
nah its better to wait
remote sapphire
How is this still going
gentle elm
How is this still going
Surprised the mods ain’t canceled it yet
steel sapphire
honestly
pale tulip
Surprised the mods ain’t canceled it yet
why would they though
gentle elm
why would they though
She’s basically trolling
odd night
Btw Intel 14th gen coming soon
naive robin
Also known as Intel 13th gen with a clockspeed bump
lusty tiger
Raptor Lake refresh
arctic lotus
so with storage, i could always get like 1 boot drive and 1 other drive, and just test the water to see if that's all i will need too.
cause i could just buy more drives after too if i want
pale tulip
Also known as Intel 13th gen with a clockspeed bump
unless its the i7
the i7 seems like a pretty decent deal
naive robin
unless its the i7
Nah unfortunately
Still the same thing with +200Mhz, higher power consumption and same cores :)
naive robin
No lol
naive robin
afaik there's a lot of conflicting info out atm
pale tulip
naive robin
So currently I am just believing what will give Intel the worst possible launch kekw
lusty tiger
it has more cores
Probably gonna be meteor lake
Which was labeled 14th gen before raptor lake refresh
hollow orchid
that one person is gonna say “should i wait until meteor lake or buy raptor lake”
desert mist
The refresh is pretty dumb tbh. Not sure what they were attempting there. Maybe just trynna get consumers to feed into the BS idk
hollow orchid
and meteor lake still isn’t supposed to release for a little bit
lusty tiger
The refresh is pretty dumb tbh. Not sure what they were attempting there. Maybe ...
They should have done something like the 13950k or something, instead of lying about it being a new generation
Or just not bothered
desert mist
Yea lol
desert mist
It’s not just for gaming lol
lusty tiger
None of the high end CPUs are for gaming
6-8 cores maximum for gaming/simple content creation
desert mist
that one person is gonna say “should i wait until meteor lake or buy raptor lake...
Tbh every generation other then this new refresh has been a considerable upgrade from the last. So I just tell people it’s up to you. If you have viable build then wait if not then might just wanna invest what’s out now
I can’t see current gen CPUs being outdated for quiet awhile seeing as how fast they are
topaz solstice
so with storage, i could always get like 1 boot drive and 1 other drive, and jus...
yes
topaz solstice
afaik there's a lot of conflicting info out atm
apparently there's some newer 13400/13500 which are raptor lake instead of being alderlake refresh
naive robin
ok but like i think 24 cores is ridiculous for gaming
well
It's 16 useful cores and then 8 other cores sitting around and doing not that much
gentle elm
Also known as Intel 13th gen with a clockspeed bump
40 series moment
naive robin
I mean the 40 series was a notable performance improvement over 30 series, just horrible for the price lol
naive robin
Yeah, it should be cheaper and called a 4050 lmao
topaz solstice
Yeah, it should be cheaper and called a 4050 lmao
tbf the 4050 should be called a 4030
arctic lotus
okay so these are all the PSUs i have identified so far
i am looking at these one
it's every PSU i could find that exists between 1200-2050w that is titanium only
should i expand my options and identify platinum PSUs as well?
i have also found them on the PSU tier list and included the corresponding tier
there arent many platinum PSUs to identify that are 1200w+
vernal jay
should i expand my options and identify platinum PSUs as well?
Ratings don't really do anything with quality ngl
You can have a platinum psu that might be missing a few safety features
Or a platinum psu that catches on fire
topaz solstice
https://ambiguous-hen-8da.notion.site/d44c68c38421425da42914e09e931a3a?v=238f83d...
you seriously don't need anything more that a 1200w psu
arctic lotus
Ratings don't really do anything with quality ngl
ive been told the exact opposite. that the tier is more important than any other metric
topaz solstice
Or a platinum psu that catches on fire
there is one in tier E/F that is a platinum tbh
vernal jay
ive been told the exact opposite. that the tier is more important than any other...
That's not the tier
It's the efficency
topaz solstice
ive been told the exact opposite. that the tier is more important than any other...
efficiency rating is not tiering
arctic lotus
oh you meant rating as in efficiency rating
mb
i didnt identify titanium-only because i thought it would be good for the tier.
i looked into titanium only because of the efficiency, which could be important for vanlife.
which is why i asked if i should even consider platinum PSUs as well
topaz solstice
i looked into titanium only because of the efficiency, which could be important ...
higher efficiency helps but you don't need a titanium efficiency psu
arctic lotus
cause if it's a A+ tier platinum efficiency then i might get it
but then again, it's also like, if a A+ tier titanium PSU exists, why even identify any platinum A+ tier PSUs in the first place
topaz solstice
a gold or platinum efficiency will work just fine
arctic lotus
so i should look into gold or platinum as well, at least for more options
then i can look at the A+ tiers for it all and compare in my notes
can gold or plat be atx 3.0 too?
topaz solstice
yes ffs
arctic lotus
im so glad i learned how to read that excel sheet. its so easy for me now idek how i couldnt before.
topaz solstice
what you think the ones marked up as atx 3.0 compatible
arctic lotus
that excel sheet is life or death
topaz solstice
that excel sheet is life or death
not life or death at all, it's just handy info
arctic lotus
what you think the ones marked up as atx 3.0 compatible
so those are the only 12 PSUs that exist that have atx3.
topaz solstice
so those are the only 12 PSUs that exist that have atx3.
pretty much currently
and take note, 4 of them are gold rated
topaz solstice
you never will
arctic lotus
so atx3 just means it has 12v width
naive robin
No not really
arctic lotus
what is hpwr
naive robin
However people tend to shorten high power
naive robin
Oh I added a space
It's just 12vhpwr lol
It's just the stupid name of the cable
Or, connectors used
arctic lotus
wow they literally call it 12 volt high power lmao
topaz solstice
what is high power then
basically what the pcie 5.0 connector does
arctic lotus
i wonder why not just call it 12v
naive robin
Because that's just a voltage
topaz solstice
just have to remember even if it has the pcie 5.0 connector it doesn't garuantee it being atx 3.0
arctic lotus
basically what the pcie 5.0 connector does
pcie in terms of power delivery is strange to me. since i learned it as data only first.
arctic lotus
so not all pcie 5.0 connectors are atx 3.0
but all atx 3.0 have pcie 5.0
topaz solstice
so not all pcie 5.0 connectors are atx 3.0
but all atx 3.0 have pcie 5.0
no
RM1000e does not have the pcie 5.0 connector on it directly
naive robin
PCIe 5.0 for the connector, ATX 3.0 for the power supply spec
topaz solstice
the RMx shift also doesn't directly have the pcie 5.0 connector
arctic lotus
okay so it looks like atx3 will be able to limit gpu power if needed which means incompatible psus in the future wont lead to shutdowns but psu bottlenecking could become a thing in the future.
naive robin
One would hope that consumers are to research enough such that they'd realise they graphics card needs a chunkier PSU
arctic lotus
PCIe 5.0 for the connector, ATX 3.0 for the power supply spec
tbh still dont understand the pcie 5.0 part lol. like why is it here. why not just use some other connector thats for power specifically. i thought the 12vhpwr was the connector.
naive robin
12vhpwr is the connector/cable
topaz solstice
tbh still dont understand the pcie 5.0 part lol. like why is it here. why not ju...
12vhpwr = pcie 5.0
naive robin
What was what?
topaz solstice
what was it for atx2 then?
on 90% of them there isn't a pcie 5.0 connector
arctic lotus
the 12vhpwr name and the pcie name for atx 2.0
arctic lotus
yeah im asking what was the atx 2.0 equivalent
naive robin
6 pin and 8 pin PCIe power
naive robin
Of course it used 12 volts
arctic lotus
what pcie gen?
naive robin
But those are just names
topaz solstice
what pcie gen?
none
naive robin
You just called it a 6 pin
Or an 8 pin
arctic lotus
6 pin and 8 pin PCIe power
he says pcie power here
naive robin
And used context and a bit of thinking to realise what people meant
arctic lotus
does that mean it's pcie gen 1
topaz solstice
does that mean it's pcie gen 1
nope, it has no pcie gen specific
arctic lotus
i guess im looking for the data speed version of this new (to me) power delivery naming that uses the same wording as motherboards and pcie gens for some stupid reason
it looks like the power speed is up to 600w with this new atx 3.0 thing
naive robin
Speed is the wrong word
naive robin
Capability would be better
topaz solstice
i guess im looking for the data speed version of this new (to me) power delivery...
there is no speed to pcie power
naive robin
600W capable cable 🤷
arctic lotus
i already know watts implies how much electricity the cable can push
anyway
so then how much was it for atx 2.0
naive robin
Depends on who you ask
The specification states that a 6 pin can do a max of 75W, and an 8 pin can do a max of 150W
topaz solstice
i already know watts implies how much electricity the cable can push
it's not what it can "push", it's what it's rated to handle
arctic lotus
so atx 2.0 had either a 6pin or 8pin
arctic lotus
how none
naive robin
By not having any cables for it
arctic lotus
oh so those were even older then
before the days of gpus
probably when the slot itself could deliver enough power
naive robin
All modern PSUs that don't have a 12vhpwer connector are ATX 2.0 lol
Manufacturer can just choose to not include 6 or 8 pin power cables if they want
topaz solstice
how none
there are are some psu's without it as alot of gpu's didn't need an extra power connection at the time
arctic lotus
so atx 2.0 is 12vhpwr too??
naive robin
A 300W PSU wont have an 8 pin
A 450W PSU might have one
naive robin
so atx 2.0 is 12vhpwr too??
I never said that
arctic lotus
whats the difference between 12vhpwer and 12vhpwr then?
naive robin
ATX 2.0 as a specification does not include the 12vhpwr connector
gentle elm
it's every PSU i could find that exists between 1200-2050w that is titanium only
I must ask if you have thought about that if you move into a van that even 700 watts would be to much
naive robin
whats the difference between 12vhpwer and 12vhpwr then?
A letter because I want to write power, not pwr
topaz solstice
so atx 2.0 is 12vhpwr too??
no, but there are a few atx 2.0 that have the pcie 5.0 connector that tried to claim they was atx 3.0 ready but was tested and proven not to be
gentle elm
I must ask if you have thought about that if you move into a van that even 700 w...
Forgot can someone tell her this
she still has me blocked for some reason
topaz solstice
I must ask if you have thought about that if you move into a van that even 700 w...
700w wouldn't be to much for van life
naive robin
she still has me blocked for some reason
You can read blocked people's messages you know lol
topaz solstice
750-850w would be actually ideal for van life
arctic lotus
You can read blocked people's messages you know lol
yeah, but i wont.
gentle elm
700w wouldn't be to much for van life
No but once she has a monitor and all that it will be over
topaz solstice
No but once she has a monitor and all that it will be over
the monitor doesn't get power from the psu so no, that's not effecting it
arctic lotus
if vanlife wont work for the pc, then i will not do vanlife. but im p sure i can find a way to make it work after im done building it
gentle elm
750-850w would be actually ideal for van life
Yeah 750 - 800 would be good I struggle to trust a 850 In a van
gentle elm
the monitor doesn't get power from the psu so no, that's not effecting it
I know I’m meaning that it will al draw too much power
Maybe
arctic lotus
no, but there are a few atx 2.0 that have the pcie 5.0 connector that tried to c...
so basically, some atx 2.0 is capable of the same things as atx 3.0 and i should also look into / consider atx 2.0 options.
topaz solstice
Yeah 750 - 800 would be good I struggle to trust a 850 In a van
with a victron setup this is not an issue
topaz solstice
I know I’m meaning that it will al draw too much power
nope
arctic lotus
ATX 2.0 as a specification does not include the 12vhpwr connector
but atx 3.0 as a speciication does.
naive robin
Yes
arctic lotus
good ty
gentle elm
Ah I just looked and you are correct they apparently have 1500-2000 watts available
naive robin
ATX 3.0 is literally just ATX 2.0 but with the inclusion of the 12vhpwr connector
That is all
topaz solstice
this is all the info for the pcie 5.0/12vhpwr
naive robin
It defines the shape of the PSU, what voltages it should output, what current it should be capable of...etc
arctic lotus
It's a specification for PSUs
well ik that lol
arctic lotus
It defines the shape of the PSU, what voltages it should output, what current it...
yeah but i also dont know what you mean by shape or the voltages or the current
i know amps are current
gentle elm
well ik that lol
Basically the only difference 12VHPWR connecter other than that they are practically the same
naive robin
Literally the shape of the PSU
Is it a box
A cuboid
A weird L
And PSUs output 12V, 5V and 3.3V for your components to use
arctic lotus
ik atx 3.0 uses 12vhpwr. and im guessing thats only for gpus
gentle elm
Correct
arctic lotus
And PSUs output 12V, 5V and 3.3V for your components to use
im guessing the 5v and 3.3v are for other things
arctic lotus
like at first, i literally thought the 12vhpwr connector was to power the psu lmao
arctic lotus
SATA devices, RGB strips, fans...etc
are those the only 3 flavors
12v, 5v, and 3.3v
naive robin
Yes
arctic lotus
so atx 2.0 only specified 5v or 3.3v
but not 12v even though some were capable of up to 12v
the more modern atx 2.0 psus were
naive robin
No, ATX 2.0 still specifies 12V rails
arctic lotus
oh okay
naive robin
A rail is just the term used to describe what produces the output
arctic lotus
ive heard of those. so rails is just the power version of traces / lanes
topaz solstice
atx 2.0
naive robin
(heart react a literal screenshot of wikipedia)
topaz solstice
aye, but it's the only way she's going to take note
arctic lotus
heres what i found for atx 3.0
so rails are literally on the psu pcb
and have both a electrical part but are also physically there
ohhhh i understand now
the full name is actually ATX12V 3.0 otherwise known as ATX 3.0
so when i was googling, i kept getting results for motherboard stuff
but "atx12v" is better
instead of just "atx psu"
cause the full name of atx 2.0 is also atx12v 2.0 and atx 1.0 is atx12v 1.0
topaz solstice
but "atx12v" is better
nope as there's one known as atx12vo
arctic lotus
whats the atx12vo
topaz solstice
whats the atx12vo
atx 12v out
naive robin
and have both a electrical part but are also physically there
There is a segment inside the PSU that produces the 12V rail
The rail isn't the segment, it's just the name of the 12V line
topaz solstice
completely only 12v output
naive robin
whats the atx12vo
A PSU standard that Intel came up with that removes the 5V and 3.3V outputs, and moves the circuitry that generates those outputs onto the motherboard
arctic lotus
There is a segment inside the PSU that produces the 12V rail
The rail isn't the ...
yeah the line is phsical too tho just like data lanes
naive robin
Calling it a line is weird
arctic lotus
you called it a line
naive robin
And comparing it to data lanes is also... extremely weird and borderline incorrect
arctic lotus
ill start calling it a rail too tho, but without knowing what its like its hard to like know
naive robin
you called it a line
Because just saying '12V' is weirdly vague
topaz solstice
A PSU standard that Intel came up with that removes the 5V and 3.3V outputs, and...
with 1 major downside to this, that if the 3,3v or 5v rails went on the mobo, you would need to swap the mobo out completely
arctic lotus
ik 12v is just electrical width
topaz solstice
no, just no
topaz solstice
or at least i think they dont
they don't and never will
naive robin
12 volts is... Well, this is more college tier education stuff at this point
Trying to define a volt lol
arctic lotus
amp is the whole current.
watts are what comes out
volts are the width of the hose
at least thats how i was taught in here and online.
ik watts arent actually what is drawn tho from a device
naive robin
In that analogy, voltage is the difference in water pressure, current is the water flowing through
Watts is what comes out the end, yes
Watts are actually what are drawn through a device
arctic lotus
the width controls the pressure
naive robin
Voltage turns the thing on, current flows through it, watts is the product of the two and is therefore the power consumption of such a device
naive robin
You can shove 12V through a tiny hose
arctic lotus
tbh no clue what current is or amps
naive robin
You don't need to know what a voltage is either tbf lol
arctic lotus
are you sure?
naive robin
Once again, college level education in order to describe what a volt or an amp is
And yes, I am very sure
arctic lotus
cause you treating me like i do need to know.
lusty tiger
atx 12v out
No it’s atx 12v only
naive robin
I am just answering your questions and explaining what I mean
arctic lotus
that's fine
i was kind of hoping rauko would teach me about electricity, but he doesnt seem to want to
naive robin
But since every single power connector in a computer is keyed, it's quite literally impossible to send the wrong voltage somewhere
It's impossible, unless using a huge amount of force to force the wrong cable in the wrong place, to send the wrong voltage to a component
Because 'electricity' is not a concept that can easily be taught in a discord thread
lusty tiger
i was kind of hoping rauko would teach me about electricity, but he doesnt seem ...
Because it’s less than necessary, and it’s far beyond the scope of this thread
naive robin
That's something you focus on learning in a degree lol
lusty tiger
But since every single power connector in a computer is keyed, it's quite litera...
And, if you’re forcing it, something’s wrong
arctic lotus
Because 'electricity' is not a concept that can easily be taught in a discord th...
well i just mean, watts volts and amps
i dont actually want to know everything
before this thread, i got all 3 mixed up BAD BAD
topaz solstice
i was kind of hoping rauko would teach me about electricity, but he doesnt seem ...
because what i know of electricity comes from a hobiest point of view, not an EE
arctic lotus
well i still dont want ee
arctic lotus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLXDiiUv8Q&list=PLSQl0a2vh4HCLqA-rhMi_Z_WnBkD3w...
alr i will fuck with this tonight in the background
not the khan academy tho lmao takes me back to my physics days
topaz solstice
alr i will fuck with this tonight in the background
there are many video's you can scroll through on electricity tbh, going between dc and ac circuitries
runic bloom
there is no way you had physic days and dont know basic electricity
arctic lotus
im p sure ac is the wall power
naive robin
still wonder why amps are I tho
Original name for current was french and it began with I
arctic lotus
and dc is device power
naive robin
That is all
DC is direct current where the current only flows one way
AC is alternating current where the current swaps directions at a fixed rate
arctic lotus
Original name for current was french and it began with I
i took french i wonder if i remember it
arctic lotus
DC is direct current where the current only flows one way
AC is alternating curr...
ik they stand for other things
topaz solstice
love the french tbh
you might be the only one
naive robin
That is not a joke we should start here please
arctic lotus
no prob
it seems current is just electrical movement (due to inherent charge)
so current and watts both imply a speed and direction
volts dont
lusty tiger
so current and watts both imply a speed and direction
This is how I’ve heard it explained. If you compare electricity to a river:
Volts is how fast the water is flowing.
Amps is how much water is flowing.
Although, I feel like volts is more like how wide the river is.
solar gulch
are you tryna be an electrician or something?
you dont need to know how this stuff works
lusty tiger
you dont need to know how this stuff works
I understand wanting to understand volts amps and watts, but you kinda just need to get a lot of context for what they are, just like in storage units of measurement
solar gulch
alr
arctic lotus
This is how I’ve heard it explained. If you compare electricity to a river:
Volt...
i think in this example, volts would just be how much water is in the river. or how wide the river is. how large the river is.
amps would be how much water is flowing (within the river)
watts would be how much water is exiting the stream at the delta going back out into the sea / ocean
lusty tiger
i think in this example, volts would just be how much water is in the river. or ...
Yeah, that’s good. But you also just have to get a lot of context for which is which, which does take a while
Volts is how wide the river is,
amps is how much water is in the river
arctic lotus
yeah ig like gaming terminology. like maybe they have more implications elsewhere, and they will represent something else in a different context later on.
cause just like a hose, if you pinch it, the width gets smaller which makes the pressure go up
lusty tiger
220/240v outlets are way better than 120
With a smaller hose, there’s a higher pressure in the hose, and with too much pressure (amperage), the hose (wire) breaks (melts)
arctic lotus
width
lusty tiger
its actually the opposite of width
What is
arctic lotus
the higher the voltage, the higher the pressure which is really smaller the electrical width. so that means 12v isnt "wider" than 1.4v. it's more narrow in that analogy. so calling it width is pointless from the get go.
lusty tiger
the higher the voltage, the higher the pressure which is really smaller the elec...
No, not the higher the pressure
naive robin
Voltage is best described as the difference in water pressure between two points
topaz solstice
it's more like a tap if you're going to use an analogy
naive robin
And yes, current is charge per time, charge being an amount of electrons in an area
arctic lotus
so volts are really just the build up of electricity or electrons
topaz solstice
the more you open a tap, the more the water flows out
arctic lotus
topaz solstice
the more you close a tap, the less the water flows out
naive robin
Electrons do move at a speed but it's rather slow
And the direction is governed by whatever the current source is
topaz solstice
and ohm's law deals with resistance tbf
arctic lotus
Voltage is best described as the difference in water pressure between two points
right, width can still be used. but just know that 12v means it's skinner or tighter or whatever and 1.4v is wider or looser ig.
well im p sure ohms law is ALL of it, but i do know that ohms are the measurement for resistance
naive robin
Ohm's law is but one relation between current, volts and resistance
There is a lot more to those three than just that
arctic lotus
yeah
naive robin
But it is entirely unnecessary unless you want to go to university and study about it
arctic lotus
more volts does mean more electrons tho
naive robin
So does more current
naive robin
Unfortunately you don't know the resistance of each part but there are power readouts anyway so it's not like it matters
Plus voltage will vary slightly and current draw is inconsistent...etc
Which is why we love averages
arctic lotus
yeah this
its all lightspeed so the idea of movement is silly.
ill throw it on tho, i love veritasium
naive robin
Electrons don't move at lightspeed in a cable
They move rather slower since they're all bumping into each other and pushing each other along
Depends on the thickness of the wire and the current too, but it's relatively low
The example Wikipedia gives is that in a 2mm diameter wire with 1A of current, individual electrons are moving at 8cm per hour
arctic lotus
my guess is e lmao
naive robin
Huh?
arctic lotus
Electrons don't move at lightspeed in a cable
it should be lightspeed tbh
magnetism, electricity and light are all the same stuff. its a huge misconception, but awhile back they tried renaming it to electromagnetism
lusty tiger
it should be lightspeed tbh
It’s not
runic bloom
magnetism, electricity and light are all the same stuff. its a huge misconceptio...
Huh
arctic lotus
yeah i wanna say the 80s but i can't remember tbh
lusty tiger
Especially in ac, they move back and forth. They don’t flow at all
Not sure about dc
naive robin
it should be lightspeed tbh
Well it very much isn't
Considering nothing with mass can travel at that speed
naive robin
magnetism, electricity and light are all the same stuff. its a huge misconceptio...
'tried renaming'
It is electromagnetism
But they're not exactly the same
lusty tiger
They tried to make it the “generic term”
arctic lotus
before that, it wasnt named that lmao
lusty tiger
Instead of saying electricity or magnetism
arctic lotus
But they're not exactly the same
they are
naive robin
Same field of study, not the same things
A photon is very different to an electron, and magnetic fields don't have a particle associated
naive robin
I did not study physics for someone to state misinformation like that in front of me
lusty tiger
i could spend hours talking about this
Proof you’re researching too much
arctic lotus
Proof you’re researching too much
im not, this is from before
naive robin
Regardless though
Where were we at before this roller coaster of a discussion?
PSUs?
Pick a 1200W unit and be happy ig
A 2000W unit is tremendously expensive and likely that you won't actually find one that'll work in a 110AC house/van or whatever
lusty tiger
bequiet dark power 13
naive robin
May need to look for a 1600W unit if you really want to spend some money for little reason
lusty tiger
~~bequiet dark power 13~~
Or a 1600i if you want a lot of power (for basically no reason)
lusty tiger
~~bequiet dark power 13~~
This is such a cheap power supply for its features