building my 1st pc

[topaz solstice]

i've had a mobo where it did that before it went to a2+b2

[naive robin]

Latency is not a product, it is a result

[arctic lotus]

so is the speed decrease

with am5 4 sticks you wouldnt be able to push 6000

[naive robin]

RAM accessing is done over a serial bus but that does not mean the modules are accessed in series

[arctic lotus]

4800-5200

[naive robin]

The IMC picks and chooses where to place data, where to pull data, all that

[arctic lotus]

its literally a daisy chain topology like you said

[naive robin]

It's called daisy chain because of how it is physically wired, not because of how the modules slotted into it are accessed

[arctic lotus]

well im willing to read some sources if you have any on my own time

[topaz solstice]

5600 in most cases if you do 4 sticks, there are a few who's managed 6000

[arctic lotus]

would love to learn the difference today if possible

[naive robin]

My sources are buildzoid and JEDEC papers lol

[arctic lotus]

send them

[topaz solstice]

not to mention the fact you also oc ram

[arctic lotus]

itll take me hours to find some random thing like that

[naive robin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vQwGGbW1AE

[arctic lotus]

i might even find it and not even know that. thats the part

[naive robin]

Here's his video on motherboard topologies

And also,
If daisy chain could be described as how the modules are accessed one after the other... How would that explain T-topology? Are the modules accessed simultaneously over a serial bus? No, that'd mean you'd either have to have a separate IMC for the second stick, or you'd have to have a parallel bus, which is not the case

Motherboard memory topologies are exclusively talking about the way the memory slots are electrically wired to the CPU socket, rather than anything related to data transfer

[arctic lotus]

is t topology server onlly

or is it older

do we still see t topology on am5?

[topaz solstice]

you'll see it with a few gigabyte mobo's

[naive robin]

I am unsure if there are any t top AM5 boards

Considering how it works and its implications I wouldn't be surprised if there are none

[topaz solstice]

with how t topology works, wouldn't it cause issues with ddr5?

[arctic lotus]

oh so, not pertaining to my use case then?

[topaz solstice]

pretty much

just like using 4 sticks does not pertain to being a wise use for your use case

[arctic lotus]

t topology works better for 4 sticks

but if its not on any am5 mobos, then yeah i can't really get that

im already locked into am5

[topaz solstice]

also, as it's your first build, only focus with getting the right ram, tuning can be done at a later date

[arctic lotus]

if it's in a daisy chain layout, it reads a2 and b2 first

so electrically, yeah a1 and b1 or slot 1 and 3 would cause unecessary latency

[naive robin]

No, it reads wherever the RAM stick is first

[topaz solstice]

and at this point, that doesn't matter, you go by what the mobo manual says for the specific mobo you choose

[naive robin]

The IMC cannot pick which slots to read first, within the same channel

[desert mist]

Chance are probably not. Typically the stick closest to the cpu will have the lowest latency. And will be used first

[arctic lotus]

yeah but if you plug into slot 1 and 3 and leave slots 2 and 4 empty, it's still slower

so not just in 4 stick setups

[naive robin]

Because of side effects of a daisy chain topology

[arctic lotus]

but in 2 stick setups too

[naive robin]

Not because of the IMC choosing to read slot A2 first (which is not how that works)

[topaz solstice]

which if i remember correctly, you haven't choosen 1 specifically

[arctic lotus]

its literally because of how the slots are electrically

i never meant that the imc is being selective lol

[topaz solstice]

read the manual

[naive robin]

The only difference between slot A1 and slot A2 on a motherboard is the extra trace length

[arctic lotus]

im basically saying, its not wired directly to the cpu. a1 is wired to a2.

[naive robin]

When you have a RAM stick in slot A1 it has to deal with the extra unterminated traces that go to A2 (unpopulated in this case) which causes signal reflections and therefore, a loss in signal quality

Funny you say that

A1 is connected to the CPU first

[arctic lotus]

a2 is wired directly to the cpu

[naive robin]

A2 is connected through A1

[arctic lotus]

well i will look at the sources

[naive robin]

This is a daisy chain lol

[arctic lotus]

yeah i saw that

but that could just be drawn wrong

[naive robin]

I can literally go pull out one of my motherboards and look at it

[arctic lotus]

so im gonna watch it

not going to go based off a thumbnail

[naive robin]

There is a reason why slots A2 and B2 are recommended and it's not because of stupid latencies or whatever you're trying to state

[arctic lotus]

so anyway, now we are debating 2 different daisy chain layouts then

but still daisy chain

[naive robin]

No, the layout you're proposing does not exist

[arctic lotus]

which should be on am5

[arctic lotus]

oh well

[naive robin]

No motherboard connects A2 before A1

[arctic lotus]

thats not what ive heard at all

in fact this is the first time ive heard of yours

[naive robin]

Where have you heard what you're stating?

[arctic lotus]

im late for work, i can't supply sources rn

[naive robin]

Well, do so later then

[arctic lotus]

i will

[naive robin]

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?attachments/memory-layout-gif.149843/

Here is a gif from MSI themselves that's a little beautified but, it shows which slot goes first

Another picture from MSI showing their daisy chain layout

[arctic lotus]

makes sense

[desert mist]

Gigabyte shows which to use on their mobos too

[arctic lotus]

this still means latency for 4 sticks tho

[desert mist]

At least mine does anyway

[arctic lotus]

but i will still figure this out because its important for determining where i plug the ram in lol

[naive robin]

The latency increase from 4 sticks comes from the memory controller having to deal with the 4 sticks lol
And the speed decrease
It has nothing to do with the topology

[topaz solstice]

all mobo's do, but it's always best to read the manual

[naive robin]

You plug the RAM in where your motherboard manual states to plug the RAM in

[arctic lotus]

ive also not heard this. i can agree with the imc. but ive been told its the topology itself

[topaz solstice]

still the specific mobo hasn't been chosen has it?

[desert mist]

Be directly wired the “theoretical” latency you speak of would be micro seconds

[naive robin]

Nanoseconds, if even

[desert mist]

Something you couldn’t possibly notice

[topaz solstice]

technically 1ns

[arctic lotus]

yeah but it seems like a lot of people care about that

[desert mist]

Yea NS mb

[arctic lotus]

especially enough to not go 4 sticks on am5

[desert mist]

No one really cares about that lol

[arctic lotus]

not from what ive seen

[desert mist]

You’re the first person I’ve ever seen even mention it

[naive robin]

Because how else are you supposed to flex your high RAM overclocks that don't improve performance in a worthwhile way?

[topaz solstice]

those that XOC do though

[arctic lotus]

well i mean this server is specifically bias towards that

[naive robin]

Because we're a bunch of tech nerds that have no other achievements
We're gonna flex what we can

[topaz solstice]

eh not that i've seen

[arctic lotus]

what is xoc

[topaz solstice]

extreme overclocking

where people use chilled water, liquid helium, liquid nitrogen

[desert mist]

Can I get “Diminishing returns” for $150

[topaz solstice]

dry ice

[desert mist]

https://tenor.com/view/alex-trebek-jeopardy-clapping-applause-trebek-gif-19121721

[naive robin]

custom built phase change systems

[topaz solstice]

show that pic of your system you showed earlier in tc1 dude

[naive robin]

Oh the one with the huge amount of stupid tubes going everywhere?

That's not xoc that's just someone being funny lol

[topaz solstice]

yes

[topaz solstice]

fair enough, though it be fine for chilled water

[naive robin]

Here is someone using a phase change setup on a graphics card to overclock it further

[topaz solstice]

this sadly reminds me of an artifical heart i've seen

[arctic lotus]

so also why would the people in this thread think

running 4 sticks in dual channel mode would be bad? what are the negatives.

[naive robin]

Massive frequency penalty

[arctic lotus]

please share all of them

unless thats it

go into detail i will read it

[topaz solstice]

stability and frequency penalties

[naive robin]

10 minute long boot times for AM5 on slightly older BIOSes too

But massively lower frequency is the main one

[topaz solstice]

<- running 4 sticks of ram for a specific reason

if you want to learn to tune and OC what ram you use, always do it on a kit of 2 ram sticks

[arctic lotus]

by freq do you mean speed like whether it is able to hit 6000 etc

[naive robin]

Yes

[topaz solstice]

yes

[arctic lotus]

okay

[naive robin]

With 4 sticks you will be limited to about 5200 or less

[topaz solstice]

5600 or less

definitely can hit 5600 with am5

on 4 sticks

[naive robin]

On latest BIOS, yeah ig

[topaz solstice]

but you also have where it can also read the total capacity at half it's full amount when doing 4 sticks

partially that's due to OS, partially that's imc i believe

[arctic lotus]

can you go into more detail about stability

[topaz solstice]

bsod pretty much sums it up on that

otherwise, programs suddenly stop working/crashes and closes down

random fluctuations happen

[arctic lotus]

oh so based off articles youve seen and personal experience?

i did see that one you shared earlier

[topaz solstice]

yeah

[arctic lotus]

is it just those 2 reasons or any other

[topaz solstice]

unstable OC's can result in some "fun" issues

[arctic lotus]

why is there a stability issue with 4 sticks. to me that makes no sense

is it cause of more points of failure etc

[topaz solstice]

you can use the same brand, and with that 2 different kits despite having the same tuned xmp/expo timings, but the ic's differ as one set could be hynix M dies and the other set can be micron rev.A's

[arctic lotus]

can you go over ram dies and a little bit about them. i only know about hynix A, but ive heard hynix A is really good. is hynix M not so good then?

[topaz solstice]

now the combination of that can be fine under expo/xmp, but when you go to tune it because of the characteristics of the ic's differences can mean that one oc's better than the other and that in itself can cause an instability

this is old and basically out of date info but can explain some of the differences in ram dies https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4/

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

[steel sapphire]

this entire thread is like trying to argue with a conspiracy theorist

[topaz solstice]

nope, they're actually trying to learn

conspiracy theorists don't want to learn unless it agrees with what they say

[arctic lotus]

So I was able to fact check the imc frequency issue with 4 sticks.

Basically 4 sticks is a greater load than 2 sticks and the imc can't handle it. Ig most imcs can't handle 4 sticks and it's mostly cause the imc is dual channel and not quad channel. Not that quad channel was the goal but I was probably wrong about the ram hitting 4800. It's more likely to hit 3800 -4200 with 4 sticks and that's just the reality with the imc especially with zen4.

But what I'm confused about is all the benchmarks I've seen show 4 sticks consistently doing better than 2 sticks

[lusty tiger]

iirc, ryzen hits 3600 for ddr5 with 4 sticks

[arctic lotus]

Yeah around there.

But idk if that translated to necessarily worse tho

Cause it is still double the ram

[lusty tiger]

but you would never need enough ram to require 4 sticks

[arctic lotus]

Is 4 sticks just better for workstations is that it?

I've seen performance uplift every time for 4 sticks in gaming too

[lusty tiger]

where

[arctic lotus]

Hardware unboxed

[lusty tiger]

ok...what video

[arctic lotus]

Okay I fact checked. It's 3600

People were just pushing to 3800-4200

[topaz solstice]

ddr4 speeds

[arctic lotus]

yeah

but how is it able to perform better

if the speed cant be utilized

[topaz solstice]

performs better than the previous gen, that's all

[arctic lotus]

https://youtu.be/lTtzObvXQ9U?si=FlmG-bkyiU7MaDI9

[topaz solstice]

i can already tell you the 2x 32gb is going to be better

[arctic lotus]

i think 4x16gb is on par or better if it is single rank.

single rank can still push 6000

but i think the issue is 4x32gb dual rank

that is possible but the result is lower frequency

[topaz solstice]

more chances of it being dual rank

[gentle elm]

2 x 32 is going to be more stable at higher speeds so sure they might be both able to do the same speeds but 2 x will be much more stable due to the memory controller on the cpu having less work

@arctic lotus

[arctic lotus]

yeah 16gb can be dual rank

[naive robin]

16GB dual rank DDR5 is extremely rare

[arctic lotus]

yep

so the number like 6000, 5600, 5200 etc is the frequency.

where is the bandwidth? the bandwidth would be the MB/s right?

[naive robin]

Bandwidth is usually not stated anywhere

That number isn't quite the frequency either

[lusty tiger]

i heard somewhere that MT/s was Mb/s

[naive robin]

That is correct

But DDR5-6000 doesn't have a bandwidth of 6000Mbps
It's closer to like 100GB/s with tuning lol

[lusty tiger]

dang

[naive robin]

But RAM bandwidth cannot be calculated, nor can it be estimated

And you shouldn't be caring about it anyway
Just get a 6000C30 kit and be done with it

[lusty tiger]

please please please, yes

AMD said themselves that 6000 is the best for ryzen

and cl30 is basically the lowest you can buy

[arctic lotus]

and Mbps isnt MB/s
megabits vs megabytes afaik

[arctic lotus]

so when i first was learning. i was taught MT/s was the thing. what is MT/s

i know some people dont like that term

[lusty tiger]

yes

[lusty tiger]

megatransfers per second

[arctic lotus]

yeah ik this too, but its not the frequency is it?

[lusty tiger]

no

[arctic lotus]

but its not the bandwidth either

cause the bandwidth is GB/s actually

[lusty tiger]

ahem

[arctic lotus]

uh idk

im p sure there is a really simple formula

i remembered the divide by 8 part

lol

okay so memory clock is the frequency right

[lusty tiger]

iirc, MHz is 1/2 of the MT/s. so a 6000MT/s stick of ram is 3000MHz, which would be the frequency (i guess?)

[arctic lotus]

lets use ddr5 6000 as an example

[lusty tiger]

for what

[arctic lotus]

for part of the formula

they made it sound like i could just divide the clock speed by 8 tho

but clearly not

[topaz solstice]

correct

[topaz solstice]

in most case you don't need to work that out because it's on the ram sticks label

[topaz solstice]

no as the speed doesn't mean the bandwidth on the ram,

pc5 48000 = ddr5 6000mt/s ram bandwidth denotation

but tbh you could be using even higher bandwidth

[loud flicker]

honestly I would go with 4 just because I know that Ryzen processors love dual channel sooooo hey, they can't be hating even more channels.. right?

this may be a biiit of help..? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Q163ZMTgQ

[arctic lotus]

it wouldnt be more channels

and ryzen hates 4 sticks lol

god i love wendel

[eager yoke]

well get 32gb stick then so you still get duel rank

[arctic lotus]

most 16GB are dr too

[eager yoke]

not with ddr6

[eager yoke]

ddr5

no one make 8gbit ram for ddr5

so unless you have 2Rx16 that make no sense

[topaz solstice]

it will be dual channel no matter what, whether it's 4 sticks or not, and tbh doing 3 sticks is bad enough as it is

[topaz solstice]

you'll find there is some, but it's on the 8gb sticks of ddr5

[topaz solstice]

@arctic lotus notice the maths here?

[pale tulip]

1x16 the goat fr

[topaz solstice]

for sure, can't wait to see a proper 1x32

[pale tulip]

kingston valueram on top 💯

[eager yoke]

but that 4 16gbit ic in x16 conifg

[pale tulip]

(i am listing my specs)

(https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GHQ6sh the goat)

[eager yoke]

and x16 ram is bad

[runic bloom]

What even is this logic

[eager yoke]

with 2 stick your useing all the channels

and with daisy chain mobo its best to have only 1 stick per channel

[topaz solstice]

same logic some people have thinking 4 sticks of ram = quad channel

[orchid oracle]

yeah thats goofy

2 slots per channel

or 1 on micro atx / it

*itx

[naive robin]

Yes, I am extremely aware of this

[naive robin]

Correct

[naive robin]

3x16

Who in their right mind would ever consider this

[naive robin]

No they are not

[naive robin]

I said they are extremely rare yesterday and you said 'yep'

Are you actually learning things or do you ignore what doesn't agree with what you believe?

[lusty tiger]

Is ddr too meaning ddr2?

[naive robin]

No, DDR(1) is separate

[lusty tiger]

Oh

So original ddr???

[naive robin]

Yeah

[lusty tiger]

That’s so old

[topaz solstice]

if you want older, there's sdram and edoram

[lusty tiger]

True

[topaz solstice]

but isn't the bandwidth already put on the ram label

[naive robin]

Bandwidth also depends on the timings set by the motherboard

[lusty tiger]

why are you here

refer to the pinned message. if you're not going to contribute contructively, dont message here

[topaz solstice]

@arctic lotus bus/coach build https://youtu.be/u6bIPLB2WUQ

[sturdy anchor]

Just get an rv at that point

[arctic lotus]

i would rather have a skoolie like rauko suggested

[topaz solstice]

7.5 tonner, not skoolie

especially ones with a cab over the top

[arctic lotus]

yeah more of a bus

what are banks for ram?

and bank groups?

[lusty tiger]

???

[lusty tiger]

actually yes

[sturdy anchor]

RVs are literally just “van houses” that are already built and require no extra work other than buying it

[topaz solstice]

there will be some upgrade work needed tbf

[arctic lotus]

i want diy not prebuilt van lol

prebuilt van is good if its used and right now and cheap

so rv is out unless its like 2k -5k or something like that

the way to do it intelligently is to basically get a cheap vanlife vehicle. anything works really

i can get a bus for 2k

then while living in it and doing vanlife. you start saving for the upgrade

[naive robin]

Groups of data cells that are used for storing data

A bank group is self explanatory

[desert mist]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-anger-sidious-gif-18403421

[hollow orchid]

they make some for pcs but you can also use them for general things

[strange cairn]

Drooling over the van, spitting on the PC research 🤷

[solar gulch]

second thing

i can tell you that from what has happened here

[arctic lotus]

i meant to say sr

[arctic lotus]

psychotic response tbh

[solar gulch]

i mean he is kinda speaking fax

🤷‍♂️

[gentle elm]

Nah I agree with him

[solar gulch]

fr

id say something but shed prob block me for a 4th time

🤷‍♂️

[gentle elm]

Sometimes it seems you listen other times you completely ignore us if we say anything you disagree with and that dosent go along with what you think even if we are all correct

[solar gulch]

ONG

she just blocks out some information that she thinks is unimportant

[gentle elm]

lol i don’t even care if I get blocked

[solar gulch]

yeah

[gentle elm]

Yeah meanwhile it’s the most important stuff

[solar gulch]

usually yeah

[gentle elm]

Idk it just seems dream wants help but she won’t except it from anyone in her own words “I’d rather get help from someone who knows nothing than you guys”

[gentle elm]

I’m actually prob already blocked lmao

[solar gulch]

prob

i think i am now

[gentle elm]

I’ve been here since this all started so

[solar gulch]

i can find out from reacting to her stuff

[gentle elm]

Wdym

[solar gulch]

you cant react to people that block you

i learned that from dream

and dream just blocked me 🤷‍♂️

[gentle elm]

Ah I’m not blocked

[solar gulch]

damn

[gentle elm]

Look all we can do is like direct her in the right direction wether she does or doesn’t we can’t control

[gentle elm]

Yeah kinda suprised ive spoken out many times about how she won’t listen and is being a jerk to us (being a jerk was awhile ago)

[arctic lotus]

A. ) 2x16GB SR = 32GB total capacity 2x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 2 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
B. ) 2x16GB DR = 32GB total capacity 4x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 4 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
C. ) 4x16GB SR = 64GB total capacity 4x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 4 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
D. ) 4x16GB DR = 64GB total capacity 8x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 8 cards ready, draw 2 at a time

E. ) 2x32GB SR = 64GB total capacity 2x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 2 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
F. ) 2x32GB DR = 64GB total capacity 4x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 4 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
G. ) 4x32GB SR = 128GB total capacity 4x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 4 cards ready, draw 2 at a time
H. ) 4x32GB DR = 128GB total capacity 8x64b blocks dual channel 128b draw = 8 cards ready, draw 2 at a time

so the imc seems to be okay, with 4 "cards" or blocks of data at least this gen. i am not sure what the situation is with ddr5 and 8x64b blocks, but i am pretty sure that is too much load on the imc, and it causes reduced speeds.

i feel like 16GB isn't a good option for ddr5 especially if you are building a brand new system. almost no reason to get at least 32GB.

[solar gulch]

yep

[solar gulch]

4 sticks is a bad idea

[gentle elm]

How much total do you want

[solar gulch]

even tho she cant read what i say 🤷‍♂️

[gentle elm]

Yeah for am5 it’s really bad to do quad channel

[solar gulch]

usually 4 sticks is bad

[gentle elm]

Yeah

[solar gulch]

yeah

[gentle elm]

Even for Intel just for am5 it’s even worse

[solar gulch]

boards with 4 slots arent very useful ngl

imo

[gentle elm]

Okay I am blocked

Wtf I just gave a suggestion and she blocked me

@lusty tiger please ask her to unblock me

[gentle elm]

OH I just realized ur tf2medic

[solar gulch]

yessir

i havent changed my username yet

[gentle elm]

I’ve been wondering where you were but seen this new name a lot

[solar gulch]

🤷‍♂️

[solar gulch]

feldwebel is fire

[gentle elm]

Yeah I love the new name

[solar gulch]

you know what it is?

[gentle elm]

I really wanna find a actually good name like that

[gentle elm]

Nah just sounds sick

[solar gulch]

its sergeant in german

[gentle elm]

Ah okay awesome

[solar gulch]

and i got some random pic of a german sergeant

[gentle elm]

Nice

[solar gulch]

i think it might be the ww2 kind 😱

based off the helmet

[gentle elm]

Actually ima just leave this post it’s not worth with how much drama there is and I can’t even help since I’m blocked

[solar gulch]

im finna stay

[solar gulch]

also make ur steam inv public 😠

[gentle elm]

Fine fine I’ll do it Tomorrow I’ll dm you when I do

[solar gulch]

hooray

[lusty tiger]

What in the fuck are you talking about

[solar gulch]

ram

[lusty tiger]

Well yeah

But what about it

What in ram needs this much research

[solar gulch]

ram

[arctic lotus]

im trying to figure out whether or not i want to go 2 sticks or 4 sticks

[lusty tiger]

You want to go 2 sticks lol

[solar gulch]

4 sticks is stupid

[arctic lotus]

eh idk

[lusty tiger]

2x16 or 2x32

[solar gulch]

oh wait im blocked right?

[lusty tiger]

-_-

[solar gulch]

waht

its true 🤷‍♂️

[lusty tiger]

Fym “idk”. Why are you selectively taking advice

[solar gulch]

seee?

this place is a brain tumor

[arctic lotus]

cause ive seen benchmarks of it outperforming 2 sticks

[solar gulch]

and it also makes your cpu want to kill itself

[lusty tiger]

First of all, you’re limited to 3600MT/s (without meticulous oc which also means the memory controller on the cpu is oc’d)
Second of all, you won’t need more than 64GB for the foreseeable future (unless you’re doing insane video editing or other workstation-related tasks)

[lusty tiger]

what benchmarks

Also, some benchmarks do not represent the real world

[arctic lotus]

these are just real world testing

what motherboards even have 8 slots

[lusty tiger]

Threadripper

[sharp harness]

Mostly server motherboards iirc.

[solar gulch]

servers

[arctic lotus]

why does no server motherboards use am5

[solar gulch]

cuz am5 cpus use dual channel

and am5 isnt for servers

[lusty tiger]

Am5 is consumer only lol

[solar gulch]

😱

[sharp harness]

because AM5 aren't server Cpus

[lusty tiger]

Also (iirc), everyone here has told you to get 2 sticks of 6000MT/s CL30 (preferably g.skill) ram. There’s not much else to it.

[solar gulch]

😱 😱

[lusty tiger]

So pick some fucking ram and move on

Stop looking at benchmarks. It won’t help

[sharp harness]

😱

[solar gulch]

oh yeah

i forgot about that

[sharp harness]

dis you?

[solar gulch]

mebe

idrk why i sent that

you dont even play games i play

[sharp harness]

This friend req was sent like 8 mins ago

[solar gulch]

oh yeah

[lusty tiger]

Am5 is a socket type. and, currently, ryzen 7000 series are the only cpus using it

[sharp harness]

i forgot my profile has a link on it

[solar gulch]

i forgot

[solar gulch]

i forgot i check people steam accounts if theyre linked

[arctic lotus]

what socket do server mobos use?

[lusty tiger]

Idk

[solar gulch]

holy fucking shit

[lusty tiger]

Many different types

[arctic lotus]

i might do these if i go 2 sticks

[lusty tiger]

But that’s not the point of this thread

[solar gulch]

theres hundreds i bet

[solar gulch]

that is a lot of ram

😱

[lusty tiger]

You won’t need 96GB but whatever. Just pick something please

[arctic lotus]

will 96GB hurt the pc

[lusty tiger]

No

[solar gulch]

no

[lusty tiger]

It’s unnecessary

[arctic lotus]

i saw a benchmark where 16GB were consistently outperforming 32GB

[solar gulch]

😱

[lusty tiger]

Holy fucking shit

[arctic lotus]

for the same inherent reasons as regular storage

[lusty tiger]

Stop looking at benchmarks

[sharp harness]

Too many that don't matter for your budget. get LGA 1700 or AM5.

[lusty tiger]

It’s a waste of money, but when has that ever changed your mind

[arctic lotus]

im just curious at some examples

[solar gulch]

brain tumor thread

[arctic lotus]

i mean, exactly

[lusty tiger]

Look them up on your own time and don’t bother us

[arctic lotus]

also the rgb looks better on this

and it looks cooler too

the tridents are okay tho

[lusty tiger]

Ok, so get that 96GB kit. Let’s finish with ram please

[solar gulch]

theres rgb 32gb sticks yes?

[arctic lotus]

i also dont like the trident kit on pcpp because it is glitched out on pcpp

[lusty tiger]

So?

[arctic lotus]

just annoying

[lusty tiger]

Just go to Newegg or Amazon or their website

[arctic lotus]

less clean

i already do that

but that's not the reason

[solar gulch]

i dont think anyone cares all that much

[arctic lotus]

it's cause the old kit was 5600

[lusty tiger]

But anyway, you want to get 96GB, then do that. Let’s finish this conversation

[sharp harness]

SP5, LGA 7529 etc.

[lusty tiger]

The capacity of ram will not affect benchmarks (unless said benchmarks require all the ram)

[sharp harness]

I'm talking in too many servers rn lmao

[arctic lotus]

not benches

[solar gulch]

isnt like there lga 1156 and shit like that too?

[lusty tiger]

Forget servers

[sharp harness]

Yeah LGA + random numbers lel

[solar gulch]

lel

[lusty tiger]

that is not the point of this thread

[solar gulch]

hmm

nuh uh

[lusty tiger]

Shut up

[solar gulch]

nuh uh

[lusty tiger]

Dream, pick your ram

[solar gulch]

ong

[arctic lotus]

brb

[solar gulch]

😐

[sharp harness]

Who knows, they might change their mind and go Zen-4 Epyc and get a SP5 mobo.

[solar gulch]

no way

[lusty tiger]

No, just no

[sharp harness]

[solar gulch]

get a 3990x lmfao

threadripper the way to go

[lusty tiger]

Have fun on van life with a 300w+ TDP cpu

[lusty tiger]

But it doesn’t have 96 cores

[sharp harness]

Yeah it's insanely high price gl getting an epyc comp with any type of budget.

[solar gulch]

welp bye bye guys

i go a mimir

😴

[lusty tiger]

Anyway, no more server stuff

Imma go to bed too, gn y’all

[solar gulch]

a mimir time c:

[sharp harness]

Gn, dream about Xeon gold.

[solar gulch]

no i dream about fn bayonet doppler

i want csgo knief 😦

[arctic lotus]

i mean

[sharp harness]

Not worth it, please don't get an Epyc processor for gaming. 💀

[topaz solstice]

well a 16gb kit isn't, but a 32gb kit is , and with that you should just get either a 32gb kit as minimum

[topaz solstice]

boards with 4 slots are really a bad thing in themself, sure they offer some upgradability but tbh you shouldn't be using more than 2 sticks at the capacity you want at any time

[topaz solstice]

simply 2x 16gb or 2x 32gb, never 4 sticks

[topaz solstice]

am5 is for consumer use, not for workstation/server use

[topaz solstice]

for amd, str40x,str4x, wr80 <- all for epyc/threadripper, and really poor choices for your use case

[topaz solstice]

16gb of what vs 32gb of what?

[topaz solstice]

epyc/threadripper = $3-5k minimum for the cpu, which is another reason as to why it's bad for your use case

[topaz solstice]

not available to consumer use, has to be to a company

[sharp harness]

Who knows if they own a company?

They are pretty easy to set up where I live.

[topaz solstice]

i have some serious doubts when they work for a low paying company tbh

[sharp harness]

I mean you can always buy and older gen from ebay

but theres no point in getting a server cpu

just get a 7800x3d/7950x3d or 13900k

[arctic lotus]

ram

[topaz solstice]

ddr4? ddr5? ddr3?

[arctic lotus]

they have single sticks

[arctic lotus]

ddr5

what's the point of going single stick ram kits

[topaz solstice]

then capacity wise, the 32gb is the better option, 16gb does not beat 32g ever

[topaz solstice]

none but it's what oem's do

[arctic lotus]

i hear they are better for ocing

[arctic lotus]

im talking frequency wise

[topaz solstice]

what exact frequencies on the ram?

[arctic lotus]

not frequencies, i think it's bandwidth

what is the threaded speed for ram?

so the die lottery with ram is also just the ram's chipset?

[topaz solstice]

the ram's ic's (dies) it doesn't have a chipset built in

[arctic lotus]

oh i wonder what the qvl list is talking about

[topaz solstice]

that is a list of cpu's and ram that works due to beign tested with the mobo

it doesn't include ram being run at xmp/expo frequencies, just jedec

[arctic lotus]

ik

do you know

what is the threaded speed for ram?

what is 8 layer daisy chain vs 6 layer daisy chain? is the 8 layer and 6 layer part in reference to the mobo not the ram?

ohhh so the dram chips are the dies and each of those also have either 4b, 8b or 16b

and i think they have 24b now

so thats why we usually have 8 dram chips. it's cause 8x8b is 64b. which is a single rank good for 1 channel

so 4b which is apparently rare needs 16 chips

and 16 only needs 4 chips

meaning that dr must be 16b then?

since one side is 4 16b chips. 4x16= 64b

and by side, i meant left or right not front or back

but yeah so then front or back you could have 8 chips on both side. 16 chips total. and they are all 8b. so that would be dual rank

cause 1 rank on the front and the other on the back. 64b front and 64b back. 128b total.

or single sided which could just be 8 dram chips, but they are all 16b instead of 8b. so 4 of the chips on the left make 64b and the other 4 on the right make 64b as well for dual rank single sided.

that means double sided dual rank with 16b chips doesnt exist

that would be quad rank

idk how 24b chips would work

why not just do 32b chips

[naive robin]

Expensive

[naive robin]

6 and 8 layers refers to the motherboard's PCB and how many layers it has

[naive robin]

No, dual rank can use any type of chip

Rank amount depends on what the manufacturer wants the capacity of the DIMM to be

[naive robin]

You can overclock 1 DIMM in a system further than you can overclock 2 DIMMs in one system

Not because the kits with 1 DIMM available are built different

It's because the IMC will struggle as more and more DIMMs are used

[naive robin]

This thread is the biggest test of my patience in this history of this server

[naive robin]

16GB kits (using 8GB sticks) for DDR5 is a bad idea due to them using lower bit sized ICs, which means less banks and bank groups available, meaning lower performance

[gentle elm]

[sharp harness]

shit i forgot to turn off the ping

[lusty tiger]

Yeah, I’ve resigned to that many times

[naive robin]

I am a mod
I am very used to pings lol

[gentle elm]

Randomness discord be like:

https://tenor.com/view/discord-tag-ping-everyone-here-gif-20254467

[pale tulip]

the other mods that keep closing it should take a lesson

[naive robin]

We aren't closing them lol

[pale tulip]

archiving

or whatever

[lusty tiger]

Wait really?! Then what’s happening to them

[naive robin]

We aren't touching them lol

Discord threads archive themselves after a set period of time

[pale tulip]

wat

[lusty tiger]

I thought that’s with inactivity tho

[pale tulip]

then still doesnt make sense cause there are months old threads still open

[arctic lotus]

i meant that sr can't be 16b

[arctic lotus]

actually afaik, it has nothing to do with the capacity.

[gentle elm]

Yes it does

[arctic lotus]

i knew this, but does that mean 1 stick is better than 2 sticks?

[gentle elm]

Wait just remembered she blocked me lmao

[pale tulip]

no

[naive robin]

Not at all

[gentle elm]

You don’t want 1 you want 2 not 3 not 4

Could someone tell her that cus she can’t see it

[arctic lotus]

is it just cause, althought 1 stick can oc further, the dual channel is better than a single channel and that is greater than ocing 1 stick more.

since dual channel is a scaling factor vs a further oc which is additive.

[lusty tiger]

1 stick halves your ram bandwidth, which is really bad for performance

[solar gulch]

prebuilt moment

[lusty tiger]

Yeah 💀

[arctic lotus]

yeah but then by that logic, 4 sticks has the most bandwidth

[lusty tiger]

No because there are only 2 fucking channels

Not 4

[arctic lotus]

that's what i said

[arctic lotus]

^

[naive robin]

Yes

Dual channel quite literally doubles your bandwidth

[lusty tiger]

You said this, and I’m saying 4 sticks does not have twice the bandwidth of 2 sticks because they’re on the same channels

[arctic lotus]

so when people talk about 4 sticks increasing your bandwidth, those are just the people that think 4 sticks = 4 channels

[lusty tiger]

Yes

[arctic lotus]

okay

[lusty tiger]

Which depends on the memory controller on the cpu

[topaz solstice]

not for real world use no

[topaz solstice]

exactly

if you had an open bench setup for pure OC'ing and wanted to OC ram/cpu/gpu then using a single stick would be fine but as you're not doing that, nor do you have the full experience of building a pc, this isn't for you just yet

but your own plans for what you want to do with and use the pc as, do what we said in getting either 2x 16gb or 2x 32gb in 6000 cl30-32

[lusty tiger]

2x48 if you must

that’d be a waste of money, but when has that stopped you

[topaz solstice]

for their use case, it wouldn't be wise tbh

[lusty tiger]

Yes

[naive robin]

48GB DIMMs are weeeird

afaik they clock surprisingly well

But I am unsure of how the Zen4 IMC reacts to them on account of htem being so new

[topaz solstice]

that and it's not a standard config tbf

[lusty tiger]

Honestly, to keep it as simple as possible:
2x32GB 6000MT/s CL30

[gentle elm]

Dell is crying rn

[solar gulch]

fr

[topaz solstice]

and there's the main performance difference of 15-30% for single vs dual channel

which is part of why it's been wiser to always go dual channel

[pale tulip]

tbf that gap is mostly for ddr4

[gentle elm]

No that’s also ddr5

[naive robin]

Single channel DDR5 is special

But let's not get into that discussion please

[pale tulip]

alr

[lusty tiger]

Let’s not get into any more ram discussion

2x32GB 6000MT/s CL30

[arctic lotus]

so mt/s is freq and mb/s is bandwidth

[arctic lotus]

i already know about subchanneling. how is it special outside of that

[naive robin]

MT/s is not frequency

MB/s is a measure of bandwidth

[arctic lotus]

okay so ehat is mt/s

[naive robin]

DDR5 sub-channels are just weird

[topaz solstice]

megatransfers per second

[arctic lotus]

so thats what you meant by special

[arctic lotus]

ik but what is it for

which speed

[naive robin]

No

[naive robin]

It is a measure of effective speed

[topaz solstice]

the speed the ram runs at

as in 6000mt/s

[arctic lotus]

i was told mt/s wasnt a real measurement

[naive robin]

It kinda isn't sortof

[arctic lotus]

isnt that just the freq?

[naive robin]

No

DDR5-6000 runs at 3000MHz

[arctic lotus]

like ddr5 6000

so mhz is freq

[naive robin]

Of course

[lusty tiger]

MHz is a unit of measurement of frequency lmao

[naive robin]

Hertz is like, the unit of frequency lol

[lusty tiger]

Yes, The base unit. And 1 mhz is 1 million hz

[arctic lotus]

okay yeah so whats mt/s then

so ddr5 6000 isnt even 6000mhz freq

[pale tulip]

..you know the answer to this

[arctic lotus]

well tbh no

i dont really know the differencr between mt/s and mhz. they sound the same even after looking it up

[pale tulip]

dude

what

mhz is frequency

mt/s is a measure of speed

[arctic lotus]

but ik now that the advertised number on the ram like 5600, 6000, all that isnt even mhz.

and ive asked that before and i was given the wrong answer.

its the mt/s

the mhz is always half. and thats probably because of ddr

[pale tulip]

yea

[arctic lotus]

if it was qdr or sdr itd be different

[pale tulip]

yeah

so what do you not know

[arctic lotus]

yeah but ddr5 6000 is not a freq

[pale tulip]

yeah
its speed

[arctic lotus]

idk what the difference between transfers and cycles are

[arctic lotus]

so then they are for sure related

anf MT/s isnt just marketing like that person was saying in here

so then mhz is the round trip and mt/s is the one way trip then?

[lusty tiger]

Mate, I and others have said multiple times that the frequency is half the MT/s. ddr5 6000 runs at 3000Mhz

[magic grove]

is this still going on?

[lusty tiger]

DDR (dual data rate) transfers twice every clock cycle (Hz). DDR5 6000MT/s, transferring twice every clock cycle, runs at 3000Mhz. It has a transfer speed of 6000Mb/s.

[arctic lotus]

the transfer speed is mt/s not mb/s

[lusty tiger]

They’re the same number

[arctic lotus]

mb/s is bandwidth

[lusty tiger]

It’s also speed lol

[arctic lotus]

speed is like 3 different things here

[lusty tiger]

6000MT/s is the same as 6000Mb/s

[arctic lotus]

so this is right then

[lusty tiger]

I guess you could say that

[arctic lotus]

so then why even call it mt/s then

[lusty tiger]

Idk

Some guy on twitter

(Or “X” now)

[naive robin]

MT/s and Mbps are interchangeable for RAM

MB/s is different

Capitalisation matters massively

[naive robin]

Other way around

Also you can't just thumbs down react people who say something you don't agree with lol

[arctic lotus]

so mt/s is mbps?

[arctic lotus]

yes i can

[pale tulip]

its rude to

[arctic lotus]

theyre the ones being rude

why would i lie about my experience

[naive robin]

They can be used interchangably, but are different units

[naive robin]

At a point it becomes a rule 4 break, counts as spamming

[arctic lotus]

would you rather i reply with words

like what he said doesnt even make sense.

hell pop in. and be all like oh yeah i said right here and now. that doesnt change what people have said.

ive literally been told the wrong things especially on ram

so yeah its SUPER annoying when i later find out the truth

[lusty tiger]

Point being:

[arctic lotus]

🙄

[lusty tiger]

Do you want help?

[arctic lotus]

not if you are going to act like this

[lusty tiger]

Don’t ignore stuff you don’t like/agree with

[arctic lotus]

literally never fucking ignored anything

[lusty tiger]

I mean stuff we say that you don’t agree with, you don’t considering

Like just getting 2x32GB 6000MT/s cl30

[arctic lotus]

youre on a fucking hype train cause a mod got all crazy over a typo and 25 blocked messages from trolls came in

its not disagreement.

its more like i dont have time to talk about stupid shit like this

[lusty tiger]

AMD literally said this speed is the best for ryzen 7000

[arctic lotus]

i already said im going 6000mt/s

ffs

[lusty tiger]

Ok, so pick a kit and move on from ram

[arctic lotus]

im trying to decide on 2 or 4 sticks

[lusty tiger]

You don’t need to research any more

[lusty tiger]

2

[arctic lotus]

the problem is that youtuber get it wrong. and you guys dont go into detail

[pale tulip]

there is no point to go for 4

[lusty tiger]

4 sticks will never be better

[hollow orchid]

especially with 128gb

[arctic lotus]

4 sr sticks is completely fine. but no point in doing that when dr exists.

[hollow orchid]

doesnt it put more stress on the memory controller

[lusty tiger]

When you will never use 128GB of ram (which is the only reason to use 4 sticks), it’s worse

[arctic lotus]

the problem is that youtubers literally mix up dual rank and dual channel and all sorts of shit

[arctic lotus]

4 dr sticks do

not sr sticks

[hollow orchid]

what is dr

[lusty tiger]

Sr is worse than dr

[arctic lotus]

dual rank

[arctic lotus]

yeah

[hollow orchid]

ohh

[lusty tiger]

Dual rank and single rank

So get 2 dr sticks

[pale tulip]

either go 2x32 or 2x48

[arctic lotus]

but less ranks are not automatically worse. it depends on ddr gen.

[topaz solstice]

qdr doesn't exist, and sdram is the precursor to ddr

[arctic lotus]

p sure qdr is on server

[topaz solstice]

nope, that's rdimms

those on the other hand can be quad rank

[arctic lotus]

this also. i cant believe you guys didnt recommend 2x48 before knowing what i want.

[pale tulip]

oh 2x48 is very unecessary

64gb is plenty

[arctic lotus]

they have the better dies

no reason to not get more ram

[topaz solstice]

because for what you want it's not realistically viable with the current imc on the 7000 series

2x32gb

[arctic lotus]

4 dr sticks might not be realistic

but i keep seeing benchmarks that say otherwise.

that even tho the mt/s reduces when you put 2 dr sticks on a single channel for quad rank.

[lusty tiger]

You won’t get sr sticks more than 16GB

[lusty tiger]

Do this

[topaz solstice]

you're not even linking said benchmarks so no one can confirm that at all

[lusty tiger]

I asked so many times for the benchmarks that mysteriously always agree with her

[topaz solstice]

it will never be quad rank

[lusty tiger]

Iirc, g.skill makes some weird dual ram sticks or something. Ltt made like 1 video using them

Wait that was ddr4 I think

[arctic lotus]

4 ranks on 1 channel is quad rank regardless if its 1 qr dimm or 2 dr dimms

[topaz solstice]

it'll be dual rank unless its for a server

[arctic lotus]

no itll be dual channel tho

dual rank config is 4x sr or 2x dr

https://youtu.be/dhMYmEu8gks?si=UJ6Guwe5EB_cQsaA

[lusty tiger]

Don’t call 2 dr quad rank

[arctic lotus]

quad rank is 4x dr or 2x qr
its not possible with sr unless its got 8 slots

[arctic lotus]

thats what buildzoid says

[lusty tiger]

That’s stupid

No one else calls it that

[arctic lotus]

its regardless a qr configuration.

[lusty tiger]

No, it’s 2 dr

[arctic lotus]

and also lots of youtubers say it wrong. the way buildzoid says it. is right

because they mix up the channels with the ranks as if they have anything to do with each other

anyway

im not confused on that

[lusty tiger]

Ok

So what ram are you getting

[arctic lotus]

i posted this^

[lusty tiger]

I see

And what ram are you getting

[arctic lotus]

i havent narrowed it down yet

but ive narrowed down the mt/s speed

6000 cl30

ik im not going sr

[lusty tiger]

So you should get 64GB

[arctic lotus]

so 2x dr ddr5 6000 cl30 2x32GB
or 4x dr ddr5 6000 cl30 4x32GB
or 2x dr ddr5 6000 cl30 2x48GB

[lusty tiger]

And g.skill is pretty much the best, which means ripjaws or trident, like we said in the beginning

[lusty tiger]

Definitely don’t get 128, and random didn’t recommend 96

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb/p/N82E16820374468?

For rgb:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb/p/N82E16820374445?

[arctic lotus]

afaik 128gb is podsible with 4x dr ddr5 6000 cl30 32gb

but the freq drops to 3600

unless you mean mt/s now not freq

[lusty tiger]

The speed drops to 3600

And you’ll never fucking use 128

[arctic lotus]

what speed

[lusty tiger]

It’s a waste of money, strains the memory controller, and makes your ram slow

[naive robin]

Not always

[lusty tiger]

The ram speed

[naive robin]

Ryzen7k cannot run 4 sticks of high capacity RAM at high speed

At all

[arctic lotus]

the frequency or the memory transfers?

[lusty tiger]

The transfers

we told you to get 2 sticks of 6000 cl30 and all your research just confirmed this.

Can you select the ram and move on please

[arctic lotus]

sooo why did you say frequency earlier then???

[lusty tiger]

When did I say that

[arctic lotus]

and then why lie and say that you have all been saying that when its been wrong the whole time

now we know why i went

👎

[lusty tiger]

When did I say that

[lusty tiger]

Wdym

Imma be straight honest with you:

• It’s well known that 2 sticks is better than 4 (unless you absolutely need 128GB)
  If you had listened to our advice in the beginning, we could have skipped this entire conversation, and all of your frankly useless research into your false belief that 4 sticks is better than 2. You wouldn’t have had to waste multiple days on this. And don’t you dare “👎” this message. It’s the truth and you need to own up to it

[arctic lotus]

the truth doesnt change anything

i already explained why i revisited ram

and i already posted the benchmark

[lusty tiger]

thats about ddr4 not ddr5

also since you'll be doing 4k, all memory tweaks will be very negligable with the gpu bottleneck (to be clear, this is a good thing. you want your gpu to at least slightly bottleneck the system to prevent stuttering or wasted money)

[gentle elm]

Exactly and d4 is nothing like d4

[lusty tiger]

the point is, we told you get 2 sticks, and your own video you linked supports that

[gentle elm]

Can you ask her to unblock me creeper

I’m trying to prove your point but I know she won’t see it

[lusty tiger]

and, since you want the most capacity possible, 2x32 is what you want

[gentle elm]

^

Dream you want 2x32 6000 cl 30 32 or 34

Any of those

[lusty tiger]

shea already said 6000 cl30

which is great

[gentle elm]

Yeah

[lusty tiger]

these 2 links

(rgb and nonrgb)

[gentle elm]

It’s basically the highest am5 can do without being unstable at all

Yeah if I wanted 64 gigs the rgb one is probably exactly what I’d buy

Z5 just looks so clean

[lusty tiger]

yeah, i like it

this is so frustrating because we told her this exact thing in the beginning

[lusty tiger]

hence why:

[gentle elm]

Yeah

She never has listened to us though

[lusty tiger]

unless it agrees with her belief

[gentle elm]

I can’t wait for her to come back in a few years asking how to power a 1000 watt pc of a van with a max of 1200 for the whole thing

[lusty tiger]

she's gonna get flamed

[gentle elm]

Fr

[gentle elm]

Yeah most vans apparently only have like 500-1500 watts

Also emagine how hot it would be in there with the pc

[lusty tiger]

all we can say is "We told you"

[gentle elm]

She should be getting a laptop with a 13980hx and 4070 mobile lol

[lusty tiger]

honestly yeah

and a lil ac unit to set the laptop on to keep it cooler

[gentle elm]

Yeah

[lusty tiger]

heat is the death of laptops

[gentle elm]

80c idle

Meanwhile my 5800x idles at 29 c

[lusty tiger]

laptops have such confined space

[gentle elm]

Yeah

[gentle elm]

I also only have a 240 aio

[lusty tiger]

thats fine imo

[gentle elm]

Yeah

I also have very unconventional upgrades to the aio

[lusty tiger]

lol

[hollow orchid]

god damn yall are still going on lmao

[arctic lotus]

yeah but 4 sticks was a way and has been a way to push the performance even further for this entire time.

i just cant find the benchmarks for ddr5

[lusty tiger]

it takes a lot of tuning that should not be shoved onto a new builder

[arctic lotus]

even without quad channel

[arctic lotus]

actually no, its been tested with and without tuned sticks

[lusty tiger]

yeah, at 3600

[arctic lotus]

im talking prior to ddr5

[lusty tiger]

ok, then its 2933MT/s

[arctic lotus]

4 sticks has always been better but not worth it basically

[lusty tiger]

its not better, especially for am5

[arctic lotus]

im talking prior to ddr5

its either that its no longer better.

or it is

not that it never was.

[naive robin]

And we aren't
Why are you talking about DDR4 when DDR5 is a separate entity and the one that applies to you in this case, considering that AM5 CPUs don't have DDR4 support at all

[arctic lotus]

and its hard to find info on 4x dr

tons of info on 4x sr

[naive robin]

Because 4x dual rank DDR5 is nightmareish to even get it to boot, let alone run it at speed

[lusty tiger]

its definitely not better now. but anyway, ddr 5 is all that matters now

[naive robin]

As evidenced by this picture from Asrock's website

[arctic lotus]

i just wish i could see a real life benchmark displaying how 4x dr sticks trully reduce the performance instead of it just being a decreased number for the memory transfers

[lusty tiger]

because the controller has to talk to twice as many entities

[arctic lotus]

thats just first time boot. i already know about this. wendel has talked about first time boot taking up to 10 mins but it works

[naive robin]

It doesn't reduce the performance (assuming the same speeds and timings) and no one ever said that it would
Latency may increase slightly but bandwidth will also increase slightly

[lusty tiger]

decreasing the memory transfers lowers performance

[naive robin]

And it's also any subsequent boot if you don't have memory context restore enabled, or if you change any RAM setting at all and it needs to re-train

[lusty tiger]

as i said, all this research you did into seeing if 4 sticks is better was useless because its not

[runic bloom]

It's not even better on older platforms it's just not as much as a negative

[arctic lotus]

we already talked about this

[lusty tiger]

did we?

[arctic lotus]

so 4 sticks does equal higher bandwidth

[lusty tiger]

no it doesnt

dual channel is the max amount of bandwidth

[arctic lotus]

yeah you said the mt/s go down and that it makes the real world performance go down

[lusty tiger]

yes

because less transfer speeds means less performance lol

[arctic lotus]

^

[lusty tiger]

"assuming the same speeds and timings"

since it has lower speeds, it has lower performance

and you will never use 128GB of ram

[arctic lotus]

okay well idk if its just a number or if it actually runs like at 3600mt/s

[lusty tiger]

it does run at 3600MT/s out of the box

[naive robin]

4 sticks on 2 channels increases performance marginally assuming you've got same speeds and timings because you have more bank groups available for the IMC to stripe data across
HOWEVER
You can show the performance improvement by testing between a 2x8GB and a 2x16GB kit of DDR4
There is basically no performance improvement lol

[arctic lotus]

ive seen people use 256gb+ of ram

[lusty tiger]

thats threadripper level

[naive robin]

Yeah, sure, if they're editing movies or something lol

[lusty tiger]

^ and that

[arctic lotus]

so you cant edit 4k with 96gb?

[lusty tiger]

you are not

[runic bloom]

You definitely can

[lusty tiger]

its not as fluid

and takes longer to render iirc

[runic bloom]

Doesn't ltt edit in 8k

[lusty tiger]

yeah

[naive robin]

I mean most video editing rigs that people use for 4k use like 64GB of RAM for your average editor

[runic bloom]

And all their editors have 64gb i think?

[lusty tiger]

they need at least 128

[arctic lotus]

okay well how do they do it

[lusty tiger]

every channel filled with 32GB sticks (if my memory serves me right for his build streams)

[lusty tiger]

do what? edit 8k? they use threadripper, which has 4 memory channels

[runic bloom]

Ah alright

[arctic lotus]

oh so threadrippers have quad channel?

[lusty tiger]

yes

[arctic lotus]

so nothing i can do unless i upgrade to threadripper then

[lusty tiger]

you do not need more than 64GB of ram

[arctic lotus]

is that a yes

[lusty tiger]

for getting full speed on 4 dimms, yes

itll also be ddr4 i believe though

[arctic lotus]

threadrippers arent on ddr5 yet??

[naive robin]

No

[arctic lotus]

wow

[naive robin]

Threadripper as a lineup hasn't been updated for a few years

Rumour has it that next gen Threadripper might be early next year

[lusty tiger]

threadripper is kinda shit for gaming anyway (at least for the price)

[arctic lotus]

so they probably edit in 8k so that they can upload in 4k?

[lusty tiger]

they shoot in 8k and 12k partly because they can and to play with the newest tech, and yes, partly so they can upload in 4k and probably get full resolution. shooting in 8k just means they can throw away half the pixels and still get amazing detail

[naive robin]

They edit in 8k so they can upload in 8k to floatplane afaik lol

[runic bloom]

Frankly they do it for kicks and giggles cause there really isn't a point

[lusty tiger]

they dont have 8k on floatplane

its too much bandwidth anyway

[arctic lotus]

so you cant shoot and edit in 4k for a 4k upload

[lusty tiger]

yes

[arctic lotus]

would i be able to edit in 8k

[lusty tiger]

you'd probably need 128GB of ram

8k cameras are flippin expensive too

[arctic lotus]

i mean how laggy are we talking

[lusty tiger]

idk

lmg's editors defintely use more than 100GB of ram

iirc, they get very close to 128 even

dont do 8k anyway

its not worth it

[runic bloom]

Really wonder what 8k footage she'd be getting her hands on in the first place

[lusty tiger]

because of the storage speed, other hardware requirements, and 8k camera costs

[runic bloom]

Frankly buy a mac pro if you really wanted to edit that high res

[lusty tiger]

overpriced af

to recap.....
-64GB of ram max
-threadripper is a waste of money (i hope you already knew that)

[runic bloom]

It's only like 6k

Also meant the studio idek why the pro exists

[lusty tiger]

because apple fans wanted it. so apple put the mac studio's hardware in a big ass case

and it got the same performance for like 200% of the price

[hollow orchid]

exactly

probably won’t support some gpus either

[lusty tiger]

ha...ha...just try installing a gpu into the mac pro

[hollow orchid]

probably even more fun

[arctic lotus]

what storage speed?

[lusty tiger]

The storage speed required to read 8k video. I didn’t think about you wanting to use t700s, so that’s not an issue I guess

[arctic lotus]

my phone can record in 8k

[lusty tiger]

What phone do you have

Also any phone video cannot be compared to their resolution equivalent proper cinema cameras

[gentle elm]

Dream gotta be trolling at this point

[arctic lotus]

so 2x64gb modules arent a thing then?

[lusty tiger]

no

not for consumer ram

[arctic lotus]

ive already posted these for 5600

not going ripjaws tho

i might still go the trident tho

[lusty tiger]

ok, so this then
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374383

[arctic lotus]

this one i am considering

also looking into these now

[lusty tiger]

you dont need 96GB

[gentle elm]

Nobody does unless it’s a server or a threadripper or smth like that

[arctic lotus]

is 96 gb slower?

also theres these

so still 96

[lusty tiger]

again, dont get 4 sticks

👏 2 👏 sticks

[hollow orchid]

at this point i think they’re taking the piss

this thread is probably the longest one ever talked in

[lusty tiger]

probably

however, if you're not going to help, dont message here

[hollow orchid]

explain what’s happening then

all i know is they’re trying to go with 4 sticks when they’ve been told numerous times it’s not necessary

[lusty tiger]

no idea

[hollow orchid]

understandable

[lusty tiger]

the most phenomenally stupid idea is getting 4x16 or 4x24 ram kits

[hollow orchid]

yea that sounds really stupid

i say either 2x16 or 2x32

depends on what they’re doing tho

[lusty tiger]

yes

exactly what everyone has been saying

and since she doesnt care about price, and wants no compromises, 2x32

[lusty tiger]

leading me to link this kit multiple times