#What are some good online security measures I can do for a specific computer/whole home network?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

queen anvil
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My family has some concerns about online security especially when banking.

I don't particularly trust that their computers don't have stuff on them that shouldn't be (less malicious stuff, but more just extra programs and junk to slow them down/fill them up).

Is there any paid for or free anti-virus software that's worth it? What about VPN's? Is it worth trying to make my own VPN or proxy (using home server/PI)? What about virtual/hardware firewalls?

How can I also explain that their Internet traffic is safe and that online traffic is encrypted and safe or that its safe to use financial apps that belong to the companies themselves?

queen anvil
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Well yah good online safety teaching lol. Also on the defenser, their computers use windows 7 or older.

The VPN stuff was mainly for I think some do extra encryption. Also may help against knowing address and blah blah your city (phising whatever's seem more realistic then)

They are just older and not used to tech and are kinda paranoid they are gonna get scammed or something.

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Ayo whaa

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Lol they have a super old laptop and they are cheap haha 🤣

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💀💀 they could not handle that

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I'll see maybe j can sell them some new clean windows 10 laptops or something

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What about chromebooks?

Are they very secure and honestly that would be best performance for price I believe

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Though i thought I heard some issues about them, but that may have only been with installed apps

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Yah lol

queen anvil
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Hmm

mild wasp
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Right now they're operating with hearsay and just being scared with tech they don't understand.

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teach them

untold haven
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@queen anvil as for AVs go with kaspersky

fierce acorn
fierce acorn
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Also i suggest researching how to host your own 2fa servers if you feel it necessary and dont trust a third party as a 2FA service

untold haven
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otherwise its kinda... awful.

fierce acorn
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true

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ive literally had a virus that was named virus.exe lmao (long time ago)

untold haven
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ive seen some malware capable of entirely disabling defender

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kaspersky is def the best, but some people don't like that it originated from russia.

fierce acorn
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wanted to get a second opinion on this "According to a comparison by Tom’s Guide, Bitdefender Antivirus Plus (starting at $19.99 for one PC) comes away with a victory, thanks to its wealth of useful functions and features and its easy-to-use interface Kaspersky Anti-Virus (starting at $39.99 for three PCs) has a very slight edge in malware detection and a lighter system impact"

untold haven
fierce acorn
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i see

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might be hallucinating

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ill look into it and see if i want to switch

untold haven
fierce acorn
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will check them out thanks

fierce acorn
untold haven
fierce acorn
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oh

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I thought you meant on this server 💀

untold haven
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ohhh

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lol

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this one is def worth watching

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its a bit older but its still valid

fierce acorn
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found a 2022 video from the same channel

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watching rn

queen anvil
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Is Google's that good?

queen anvil
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Oh and @fierce acorn @untold haven im sure the best anti virus is just to not download anything right?

What's the worst attack that could happen from visiting a bad webpage, like not downloading anything or inputting any information, just visiting it? I think they can cross-page take some cookies or other information right? (I don't know too much about webpages and information that they take in, etc.)

queen anvil
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Oh hmm.

Can you compare like sms 2FA vs Google vs another authenticator app?

Like going from sms to an app is a massive jump, but app to app is just a little?

And its less uhh about app layout or looks/features, just in terms of security.

mild wasp
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yep, there's little reason to daily-drive an admin account

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for a home user

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and when you do need the admin priviliges, it prompts you for the account password

queen anvil
mild wasp
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yep

queen anvil
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How do you setup the two users and does that take much disk space or make the file structure any weirder? Or when you download apps does it work with both?

I'm thinking is it similar to the windows 10 feature of virtual desktops? Like ALT+Windows gets you a new "desktop"?

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Lol make them call me over for admin privileges 💀, but that sounds good honestly

mild wasp
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setup is easy, it's done from windows users under control panel, installing apps also gives you the option to install them for all users or for current user

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and it does take up some disk space, but not a whole lot

queen anvil
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They have one time codes and the uh like time changing ones yes?

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So maybe I could try to install windows 10 on their old laptop, though it is pretty slow.

That seems like a candidate for throwing away/not using or like the linux variant someone suggested earlier

mild wasp
queen anvil
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Perhaps both are in order. They could use a PC period in the office. Maybe a Windows pc and try linux on the old laptop

mild wasp
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Long term, just educate them

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But if they're not interested in learning, setup some compromise

queen anvil
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Someone suggested zorin?

Id just be like whatever distro is most like windows lol.

Most they would need is like maybe office type apps.

mild wasp
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Ubuntu or Mint is easy for a windows user

queen anvil
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Uh what about keeping financial spreadsheets? Whats good for that? Like physically downloaded? Would online excel or google sheets be a bad idea?

mild wasp
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open office has spreadsheets and it's free, local install

queen anvil
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Yeah libreoffice yah?

mild wasp
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I think that's different software, but also an option

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oh, actually the same?

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hmm wait, no

queen anvil
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Would the file be the same? Like I could open a libreoffice spreadsheet in Excel or Google sheets and keep formatting and stuff?

mild wasp
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I think open office is open source, so support for that is available but optional in other systems, it can also do excel files

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plenty of options yep

queen anvil
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Eh office to office is goof

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Good

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Interesting

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Uh are firewalls worth anything or helpful at all? I almost feel they get in the way more than help lol?

mild wasp
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For a regular user, all you need is the windows builtin protections

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They've made it so good in the past 10 years that the market for third party firewalls has kinda died

queen anvil
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Yeah true

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Okay ive got lots of good information and ideas now

untold haven
queen anvil
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True true

fierce acorn
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The best anti virus is often times learning learning common sense

fierce acorn
static mesa
# queen anvil Well yah good online safety teaching lol. Also on the defenser, their computers ...

VPNs aren't encrypting anything any more than you would normally be 'encrypting' traffic served over https, it's just routing your stuff through a random server somewhere, which means you have to trust the vps provider if you're worried about someone snooping on your logs or whatever. honestly like someone else said above, vpns are not needed in most cases, certainly not in this specific case...they are way overmarketed and the people shilling them often misrepresent what they can even do in the first place

on to the rest of stuff, i would second the people who advised you to upgrade the operating system. frankly, this is almost a non-negotiable at this point, it's so outdated that it being used in 2023 is itself the biggest liability. not sure how old or outdated the laptop they're using to run windows 7 is (and from what i can gather it doesn't seem appropriate to recommend installing a lightweight beginner friendly linux distro on it) but if you can scrape together like 100 bucks or so you can buy some pre-built mini pc from amazon and it'd be an enormous improvement

static mesa
# fierce acorn Yeah Zorin is a Linux distro

yah if you were to go that route, zorin is a fantastic choice, it's extremely user friendly, i have installed zorin os 16 lite on the machines of some older people who are probably similar to those you're trying to help, OP, and they have no clue it's linux, it just works and it's super stable, lightweight

queen anvil
static mesa
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aside from all of that, would STRONGLY suggest having them use a password manager. i like Bitwarden, personally -- it's what I use and have used for years, they have a stellar security record and they have apps and browser plugins for every platform you can imagine. getting them into regularly using a password manager is pretty crucial, if you use it properly it will mitigate nearly all chances of being attacked, save for a few really crazy and quite rare scenarios. provided that you use it with 2FA enabled (it works and nwill automatically fill in the 2FA codes for you on websites, it manages the whole thing from within the app), and use it to manage your passwords, it's golden

it's probably outside of the realm of this convo/their needs to get a physical security key, but i noticed someone was mentioning SIM swapping, which is definitely a concern to be aware of. right now it's mostly limited to targeted attacks, usually for high profile individuals and those who have access credentials tied to their phones, it's led to a lot of people having things like crypto stolen from them. outside of having them call into their phone providers and putting an explicit warning on their account information that under no circumstances is anyone to make any changes to their account without having verified some kind of pre-set password they can give the company, there's not much to be done other than not using SMS verification for 2fa as best practice right now, because a rogue actor inside of the phone company can always bypass the 'secret password' thing anyway

queen anvil
static mesa
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yeah vpns can provide security through obscurity, but only in situations where the network admin or person trying to 'track' you has little idea what they're doing, for most commercial vpns the ip blocks they utilize are well known and show up in databases, worse still they're oftentimes blocked or downgraded by different blacklists and shit like that

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if not going for the mini pc (i can provide some recommendations), an alternative that would be great and would basically remove any possibility of some kind of malware or virus shit would be getting an ipad, even one that's a few models old. they are supported for YEARS after release and run quite quickly, if they are very tech naive there's nothing that they can't do on the ipad, i'm a huge nerd and i basically can do almost anything on there

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plus it's portable and you can get a little keyboard and mouse for it and everything, super easy to use, intuitive

queen anvil
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Password Managers can do 2FA like the one time temporary password stuff?

What's the pricing and use of these like?

Extension/app and do you need just a password manager password and then it uses the other passwords?

static mesa
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yes, bitwarden does all of that

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yes basically that's it you have a master password for bitwarden

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you can also set it up with 2fa on bitwarden itself and have that tied to like an authy installation (totp app) or google authenticator app, etc. on your phone or other device. i use a physical security key for logging into my bitwarden, but that's probably overkill

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bitwarden is 10 dollars for a year

queen anvil
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If you have the app can you view the passwords? Or do you have to like install it and it handles it all start to finish?

static mesa
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comes with secure cloud storage as well

queen anvil
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Hmm hmm interesting

static mesa
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everything is encrypted in bitwarden, so the only time you can see anything is if you are logged into the app or extension and you explicitly choose to go look at it, it uses public/private key cryptography which means that theprivate key (what you use to unlock or 'see' the items) is stored only on your device

queen anvil
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The advantage is being able to have really complicated passwords for everything right?

static mesa
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that's what keeps the information safe, they dont have the key

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yes, it's also automatic and it checks to make sure your accounts havent been included in any leaked dumps of credentials

queen anvil
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Oh nice

static mesa
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so you will get warned to change your login details, etc

queen anvil
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Sort of like the haveibeenpwned?

static mesa
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honestly password managers are essential, they have a ton of other features, you can use it to securely share logins with someone if you wanted to do so and added them to your 'organization', they have secure notes in the app, etc. yes, like haveibeenpwned

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bitwarden is legit, one of a handful of things i am a huge advocate for, i have used a bunch of different pw managers and this is the one that hits the right mix between features, security and being user friendly

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makes it super easy also if you have multiple logins for a website to manage all of it

queen anvil
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And bit warden has a good track record?

I'm trying to think just for password wise. Would it have any advantage than just having all the complicated passwords memorized (theoretically, one may not be able to actually do that)?

Other than other features it may have, just security benefits.

static mesa
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it's got a built in password generator, you can configure it to your liking, will show you the histsory of your accounts pw's if you change them as well as the ones you generated

chrome_fHVbzwugIc.png
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memorizing passwords is a pain in the ass

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especially with how many accounts people have nowadays, it's only increasing

queen anvil
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Hmm, and you say its encrypted by a key thats only stored locally? And that can be a physical key?

static mesa
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there are some people who use an approach of a passphrase or a mnemonic device to let them remember passwords, or to generate passwords based on a formula of sorts, this is something that i guess can work (the formula approach), it's what i do to a certain extent when i am using slightly less security demanding things, like the passphrase on my server's SSH keys, i will have them generated according to a formula i made up so i dont have to remember all of them

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yes and yes

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the key is a cryptographic hash, it's a long ass string of random numbers and letters

queen anvil
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Interesting

static mesa
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it's stored locally and can only be recovered using a recovery phrase which is a series of words, either 12 or 24 words, similar to how a bitcoin wallet has a recovery feature

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if you get an ipad for example, you can just use bitwarden with the face ID feature or the thumb scanner thing, and never have to do anything really

queen anvil
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So perhaps get them on windows 10/11 (any preference there) or linux.

Then change all passwords and use a password manager like bitdefender to get complicated safe passwords.

While changing them see if they also have auto-log-out features on all accounts.

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Good strat?

static mesa
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bitwarden, but yes.

queen anvil
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How would you use a physical security key on a bit warden app?

static mesa
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i saw that there was a bunch of conjecture about anti virus stuff earlier, honestly, most of it is unnecessary, windows defender is sufficient as long as you regularly update the OS and install the windows updates

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i take it they aren't downloading files from sketchy places like torrent trackers

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which is where like 95% of people are getting random malware from lol

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physical security key would be something like this:

queen anvil
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I'm just thinking if anything it will probably be from phising stuff or them failing.

So if i can get some kind of like, the password isnt auto working instead its asking me to sign in again other than normal then i was told to hang on and see something is up yk

static mesa
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there are a bunch of different models, I would strongly recommend yubikey brand, it might sound neurotic but i know where it's manufactured and the company is legit

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yeah bitwarden will do things to notify you like if the status changes of your account login

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there's also browser extensions you can get which will stop from visiting any kind of phishing sites or from displaying spoofed emails and those kinds of things

queen anvil
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Also is just changing an email password good enough to prevent access to that too?

static mesa
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most security comes down to common sense things, well, common sense to those of us who have been online for a while -- don't open random email attachments or download them, if something sounds too good to be true it probably is, don't give your online banking info to anyone, use 2 factor authentication and a password manager always

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yeah if you change your passwords and then clear the browser cookies and cache, you will be fine

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i would also avoid using third party logins like where you have google acting as your account and basically logging in to sites for you with your google info

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or facebook or whatever, lots of places offer this but it's inherently risky, if one of those services is compromised it can mean your accounts elsewhere are fucked

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technically it's not 'supposed' to work that way, but all kind of weird and shady things happen online so better to be safe than sorry

queen anvil
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Hmm hmm true

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We talked linux, windows, ipads

What about chromebooks? Is that similar to the ipad argument or do they have inherent issues too?

static mesa
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i gotta go but yah one final thing, if they are older -- advise them to never, ever, ever, talk to people who are claiming to be from microsoft support or best buy or any random company on the phone, especially those with a heavy indian accent...tech support scammers are some of the worst scum on the planet and they prey upon old people, steal money from them, it's awful. i warn any old person i know about this shit, you'd be surprised at how often people fall victim to it and lose hundreds of thousands of bucks, they'll get a phone call telling them they are going to be charged 500 bucks or something and they call to cancel it, the scammer says they are refunding them and then does this song and dance to get the old person to let the scammer remotely connect to their pc with anydesk or a remote access software, then they do this ridiculous (honestly, laughably bad, but old peope fall for it) thing where they open a command prompt and tell the person to "type in the refund amount for our server" and they will add another 0 or two 0s to the amount, so 500 bucks becomes 5000 or 50,000 and then they make them go buy gift cards or take out cash and send it to them, that's if they haven't already got access to their bank account info

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chromebooks are okay, they are just limited in what they can do and what kind of software can run on them, i havent used one in a long time idk if they are still making them tbh, they probably are

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lot of garbage shit in the google play store though that can be installed on a chromebook, not any more secure due to the restrictions. ipads at least are still for now in a walled garden where anything on ios and ipad os has to go through apple's super strict policies to be on the app store and get installed

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGY7UQji2go this is a video of the tech support scam thing i was talking about btw, worth having them aware of what goes on so they know what to look out for

YouTube
Jim Browning
How to bust a tech support scammer

This video shows how to set up your PC to record the IP address of a 'Windows Support Department' (or similar) support scammer.

If more people could record their IP addresses, the more prosecutions we can secure the fewer calls we will get and the fewer victims they will rip off.

VirtualBox: http://virtualbox.org
Wireshark: http://wireshark.or...

▶ Play video
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anyway im out for now, good luck

queen anvil
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All good info. Thanks so much! 🫡🫡

sullen onyx
queen anvil
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@static mesa Hey, so i was looking at bitwarden and they have some free options. I guess they are funded and open source and able to provide this though they do have some premium or family plans.

Are the premium or family plans worth it. What do they provide over the regular free one? It seems they claim the difference to be that the premium has:

  • "advanced" 2FA
  • bitwarden authenticator
  • security reports
  • etc

Would it be worth that or should i stay away from the free one or anything?

fierce acorn
queen anvil
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hmm

queen anvil
fierce acorn
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Yeah my brother has it set up here

queen anvil
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its just the whole idea of yk, if something is free that means you are the product lol 🤣 im surprised that they can host the service for free

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oh dang yall both got it

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huh

fierce acorn
queen anvil
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hmm yah

queen anvil
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so I hate to dig up and old thread, but I found why my parents were so paranoid about it now.

They recently got some letters about data breaches from some companies

They got letters that told them their information was compromised including names, SSN, DOB, zip, state, etc.

The thing is the data wasn't really on their side of things. They wanted to like get Norton antivirus or something but like, idk. It may be hard trying to convince them that its not really them and its the companies that lost their data.

All they can do now is just try to monitor their credit reports etc.

Anything else they can do?

I think there are sites/services that advertise getting rid of your data online, but it seems sketch lol and if it does remove data its stuff like phone numbers not serious things.

queen anvil
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freezing credit reports? Like im familiar with freezing credit cars, but can you just say no one is allowed to make inquiries or try it or anything?

Then to keep it that way until they need to temporarily do some kind of banking thing? Huh, interesting. Is this a long term kinda thing?

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does this mean credit card companies can still report to your credit? Like if you made payments and stuff. Like will this keep your score from rising/falling?

naive summit
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Its main purpose is for preventing new lines of credit from opening.

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Credit cards will work as normal. Just can't open any new ones, or get new loans, without lifting the freeze

queen anvil
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okay

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ill definitely have to tell them about that then

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that seems really cool, cause i doubt they are getting any new loans or credit cards ANY time soon

naive summit
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Can get all 3 in one go, or request one from each 4 months apart

queen anvil
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hmm

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but they need to visit all 3 of them to freeze at each of them and unfreeze at each of them yes?

naive summit
queen anvil
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Hmm hmm