♡ i am still building my first pc ever ♡

[spare sedge]

but whats going on here

[vast geyser]

small storage

[spare sedge]

2242 is a little bigger. why is the cap so big

[vast geyser]

theyre so cute huh

[spare sedge]

yeah

[pearl heath]

Likely using eMMC flash for those

[lusty orchid]

sata and not doing larger in capacity

[vast geyser]

can be had for $100 now! woo!

[lusty orchid]

2TB > 32gb

[spare sedge]

whats emmc

[vast geyser]

oh lord

[lusty orchid]

google

[pearl heath]

Type of flash chip

[spare sedge]

ohh i just realized it was gb instead of tb

wdym sata

[lusty orchid]

m.2 drive, sata protocol

[spare sedge]

ik sd card and flash drives are flash storage

[spare sedge]

how would this plug in

[lusty orchid]

those differ from nand flash

[lusty orchid]

into a m.2 slot

[spare sedge]

so the physical m.2 slot looks the exact same

[lusty orchid]

.................

[spare sedge]

and the size / shape would match the form factor

[pearl heath]

All M.2 slots physically look the same

[spare sedge]

i already know these

[pearl heath]

Then why ask this?

[lusty orchid]

i take issue with the bottom one in that pic

[pearl heath]

M.2 is M.2, it doesn't change

[spare sedge]

cause it says m.2 sata

[pearl heath]

That's still M.2

[vast geyser]

we went over that already as well

[pearl heath]

Just that it uses the SATA protocol

[spare sedge]

yeah well you need to understand that you already know

and i dont

[spare sedge]

you also need to understand that even if we go over something. i might just not understand it fully

[vast geyser]

[spare sedge]

i cant sit around on one thing for too long. especially if its not working for me

[lusty orchid]

what you would need to understand, with certain older mobo's using the m.2 slot would disable 2 sata ports on the mobo

[spare sedge]

can you explain more

ive already heard of this

[lusty orchid]

not much more i can explain on that tbh, it's an electronic switch that happens when a m.2 is detected

and it only happens on mobo's that had 6 sata ports

[brave brook]

All top search results

[vast geyser]

🔥

[spare sedge]

why

[brave brook]

….Limited bandwidth

[spare sedge]

how

[brave brook]

I’m not explaining bandwidth agian

[lusty orchid]

the last 2 sata ports shared the bandwidth/lanes with the m.2 slot

[spare sedge]

is it cpu or chipset

[lusty orchid]

both

[brave brook]

What do you mean “how”. CPU’s only have a certain amount of lanes, and chipsets can only add so many lanes

[lusty orchid]

m.2 as nvme via cpu, m.2 as sata via chipset

[spare sedge]

yeah but if thats the case why does the number of m.2 disable sata and why is it 6 sata only lol

[brave brook]

What?

[lusty orchid]

it is a logic switch that's electronically done

[spare sedge]

what is a logic switch

[lusty orchid]

that's the how and why of it

a small IC on the mobo

[spare sedge]

what does ic stand for

[lusty orchid]

going any deeper will require an EE degree

[brave brook]

Integrated controller (I think)

[pearl heath]

Circuit, not controller

[lusty orchid]

and ic = intergrated circuit

[brave brook]

Yeah ok

[pearl heath]

If you ask us to explain what it does, well
None of us are qualified to explain in depth as to what an IC is, or how they work

[pearl heath]

As rauko mentioned, that much would require a degree in ee

[lusty orchid]

yes, that's what EE means

[vast geyser]

ask piecreator12 to get a cert in EE, he will if you ask him nicely

[lusty orchid]

something i don't have, as i'm only a hobiest for circuitry making

[brave brook]

It took me like 10 seconds to realize that without a google search

[pearl heath]

Same 😁

[vast geyser]

god that guys ambition is insane

[spare sedge]

i like piecreator

[lusty orchid]

i also don't want to burn 10-20k to be in debt with for it minimally

[vast geyser]

ok im way too talented at derailing the chat, continue with your stuff

[lusty orchid]

dude, i could do that with a squirrel

[vast geyser]

wat

[brave brook]

So back on topic then?

[spare sedge]

honestly just still trying to comprehend this

[lusty orchid]

not much to comprehend there tbh

[vast geyser]

me dont have enough bandwidth to support all the sata ports and m.2 slot
i disable to 2 sata ports
wow! now i support the m.2 slot

[lusty orchid]

if you had a motherboard that had 6 sata ports, and it also had 1-2 m.2 slots, one of the m.2 slots will disable the last 2 sata ports

the moment an m.2 is installed into it

in my case, i got around the port disabling via sata expansion card that works via pcie x1 slot

in your case, you wouldn't need to worry about that

[brave brook]

How is that hard to comprehend. It just happens

[lusty orchid]

as the riptide has 3x m.2 slot for storage and 4x sata ports

so no sata ports get disabled

though the bottom pcie x16 slot might be running at a reduced speed

[spare sedge]

idk . i guess im just a big stupid dumby head

[brave brook]

You’re overcomplicating and overthinking it

[lusty orchid]

and for that it also depends on how the slot is wired up as electrically

[lusty orchid]

called it earlier

[brave brook]

Therandomness said a while ago that she wants to know too much about everything, and it fits perfectly

[lusty orchid]

you're building a pc, order of selection always goes cpu -> mobo -> ram -> storage ->gpu -> psu ->case

cooler is a second thought after this due to some cpu's coming with a stock cooler

and at the moment you're basically asking for a system that would be an overkill 4k gaming rig that does folding and boinc on the side

with some AI also involved

and you've basically told us it's going to be in a van, which realistically means a case that's all mesh/solid side panels that are not glass or acrylic, and as for mass storage it can't use hdd's

[brave brook]

The sound……of silence 🥹

[lusty orchid]

was i being to logical with what i just said?

[brave brook]

It needed to be said, and I agree with it

[vast geyser]

all mesh? meshroom s!

[lusty orchid]

aye, allows for air flow/ can be placed into a pre-designed area where you can duct the cooling for it without it being impeded nor affect any performance

also means it can be kept securely out of sight when they're not in the van itself

[brave brook]

Vanlife really complicates things, which makes all the unnecessary things more important to leave out to avoid even more build complications and upkeep

[lusty orchid]

custom passthrough fittings would be easily done tbh, especially with something like an external power switch

[brave brook]

For what

[lusty orchid]

for the pc itself

especially if it was hidden away

my overall concern is power in regards to the van's setup

[brave brook]

Would you have to spend close to the cost of the pc for power?

[lusty orchid]

yes it'll be separate from the battery to start the engine

[lusty orchid]

possibly double

[brave brook]

Holy shit

[vast geyser]

making the van live-able is pretty expensive yeah

[lusty orchid]

looking at 3-4k pc, so 6-8k for power setup

though for the power it's not just about the pc, it's about other stuff in the van

some like a shower in the van, some like microwaves, electric ovens/hobs

and for that you look at an inverter capable of powering a home

which can be anywhere from 3kw to 6kw or more

sometimes using multiple inverters

just to spread the load

[brave brook]

Resident genius right here 👌

[lusty orchid]

it's something that i looked into myself for powering a shed

[brave brook]

Interesting

[lusty orchid]

never know what other tech can be useful to help you for what you use

[brave brook]

Yeah fr

[lusty orchid]

also for an inverter you have a sustained power and a peak power

what they're rated for is more peak power

[brave brook]

Yeah, jackeries have that too

super expensive but what I would use for vanlife

[lusty orchid]

i'd use an ecoflow or victron depending on the setup tbh

[brave brook]

Jackery is the only one I know of

[lusty orchid]

ecoflow is like jackery but optionally better

victron is a full on solar energy company

by optionally better i mean, they have more options and different ways of how they can be implemented

[brave brook]

Oh that’s cool

[lusty orchid]

none of them are cheap but at the same time it still depends on the use case

[brave brook]

Portable power is never cheap

[lusty orchid]

both victron and ecoflow i know you can set a van up so you can do both solar and electric hook ups

so you can actively bypass either depending on where you are

[brave brook]

Wdym bypass

Like plug into the grid?

[lusty orchid]

yup, that's what a hook up is

[brave brook]

I see

[lusty orchid]

there's quite a few vids on youtube you can learn from in regards to offgrid power

[brave brook]

Alr cool, I’ll check them out sometime

[lusty orchid]

and it's always all about how you implement it, never about it being doable

[brave brook]

Yeah makes sense

[spare sedge]

looks like 2260 m.2s go even less high

but also come in m.2 sata

can you plug a m.2 sata into a regular m.2 pcie port?

ik they are both m.2 ports

but will the pcie conflict or is it backwards compatible with sata electrically

2260 seems like it is just as unpopular as 22110

and 2230 and 2242 seem to be in 2nd place in popularity from the 2280

seems 2280 is where the money is at at 8gb

is speed or capacity more important

it would seem none of the 8gb m.2s have pcie gen 5. gen 4 is the highest

all of them have 4 lanes

4gb m.2s have gen 5 and gen 4

so those are probably my options

now im curious about regular sata ssds

sata m.2 only goes to 2 tb

msata only goes to 1 tb

only 2 options for 4 tb gen 5

those ssd cards look like graphics cards too lol

[spare sedge]

so wait ssds are flash storage too

just learned more about cache and rom

so the cache is always checked first

thats why it is faster

so it goes cpu cache >> ram cache >> ram >> and then maybe like storage cache? >> and then storage

ik cpu cache is newer tech

or wait does ram even have cache

so m.2 also uses flash

[rotund rain]

what on earth could necessitate over 16,000 messages for what seems to be a straightforward question?

[spare sedge]

if you arent here to help. just leave me alone please

[pearl heath]

No

[pearl heath]

Yes

[rotund rain]

I did not mean to sound judgmental , I just wanted to know how the conversation got to message 12,775 and requires (at least) several thousand more messages without a resolution to… whatever was discussed in that time frame 🙂

[spare sedge]

so ig the old name / code name for m.2 was ngff

[pearl heath]

Next Generation Form Factor, yes

[spare sedge]

tldr i am new to pc building but am slowly becoming not so new. and other people talk here besides me while i am at work or afk. this is the 2nd thread. the first thread had 12k. the general thread on my personal server has 60k so its not weird. some people are looking for just a parts list and dont care what people tell them to buy. (to me that's literally psychotic af) another reason is just debating / arguing with me about why i am the way i am. or why i care so much about a 5k purchase? or arguing about best brands like intel vs amd which i couldnt care less about.

but all you really need to know is that im trying to choose a storage device right now. thats all that really matters.

i currently own basically zero storage lmao. i might have a corrupted drive in this broken pc my brother gave me. but it was broken when i got it. so yeah never been a pc user. never been a builder.

also have my laptop storage that i will probably need to transfer

OHHH

so this whole time i wasnt really sure why

m.2 was better than sata ssds

but i think i know now

and its cause m.2 is literally faster

which i kind of knew

but now i know its cause pcie is faster than sata 3gbps or 6gbps

idk how much faster yet

and sata is a bus like pcie

idk how ahci fits into the equation yet

but i do know that its for hdds and ssds and its involved with sata not m.2

and is in contrast to nvme

[pearl heath]

General useless statement
You really don't need to know about AHCI
Anyway once again M.2 NVMe and M.2 SATA should be differentiated quite hard

[spare sedge]

and it used to bottleneck sata

[pearl heath]

Considering you can have slow SATA drives and extremely fast NVMe drives both in M.2 slots

[pearl heath]

Gigantically faster

[spare sedge]

i need common denominator terms

so like a speed for pcie ig

thats comparable to sata

[pearl heath]

Note the units of measurement used btw
3Gbps and 6Gbps
Gigabits, not Gigabytes

[spare sedge]

ik sata is 1.5/3/6 and sas is double for enterprise so its 3/6/12

[pearl heath]

To convert gigabits to gigabyte, divide the gigabits by 8

[spare sedge]

oh gigabits not gigabytes

[pearl heath]

So SATA III is theoretically 0.75GB/s in terms of maximum

[spare sedge]

yeah i wondering about that too

is there a symbole for gigabits vs gigabytes

[pearl heath]

Versus your average NVMe SSD doing about 6GB/s sequential reads

[pearl heath]

No

GB/s
Gbps

[spare sedge]

so both are gbps and GB/s

[pearl heath]

Lowercase b is bits, uppercase is Bytes

[spare sedge]

oh okay

[pearl heath]

Different units

[spare sedge]

thats what i meant by symbol

so GB/s is gigabytes and gbps is gigabit

a byte is 8 bits p sure

the thing that confuses me about nvme is that it uses express at the end of the naming like pcie. does this imply that there was a nvm storage non e that came before nvme. i already know its non volatile memory. i just dont get that either cause non volatile memory just means that it remembers the data and doesnt get rid of it after power. ram is vm or volatile memory which is just temporary storage.

so like all storage devices are nvme or nvm ig lmao. except ram which isnt really a storage device.

[pearl heath]

NVM is not a thing

It's just always been NVMe

[spare sedge]

gotcha thank you

[pearl heath]

RAM is not storage, RAM is RAM
It is its own category

[spare sedge]

kind of a really weird (redundant) name tbh

ik what ram is

so ahci was made for hdds but ssds could use it but its a 2004 controller so sata ahci is only like 600MB/s ig

nvme is a protocol and ahci is a controller but ig the nvme protocol is more optimized for ssds

so m.2 nvme are 3000MB/s so 3GB/s

i think i know why nvme is named so weirdly

there is no nvm. because it IS all nvm. so nvm would be redundant. before nvme there was ahci for sata which was a controller because it is for moving parts. and nvme literally just means ssd express basically. since the only other nvm is sd cards and flash drives.

so as a name for just a protocol. it makes sense kind of.

it just translates to fast storage basically lmao and it is

but its also a good name too cause it kind of also means that even tho it uses pcie its not the bus cause pcie is the bus and nvme is the protocol so that means for just regular pcie. your regular pcie slots wouldnt use the nvme protocol because those arent for storage which is literally the first 3 letters of nvme

does "iops" just mean input output or something?

oh wow another reason is cause nvme kind of operates like multicore cpus and breaks down the data so that it can be worked on simultaneously

OHHH

okay that makes more sense

ahci IS the older nvme

they are both protocols

ahci is just old old. and just happened to work with ssds.

but it was really meant for sata hdds and it was backwards compatible with pata

ahci allowed 1 queue and 32 commands per queue.
nvme allows 64,000 queues and 64,000 commands per queue to put the protocols into perspective

nvme is only m.2 right now i think tho. and m.2 is just the form factor so they are all ssds and all ssds use flash memory which im p sure gets complicated but im p sure flash memory is just something to do with how the electrical circuitry is overlay each other or something cause it has to do the 1s and 0s somehow like those old punchcards

however, okay so m.2 isnt only nvme tho like was mentioned earlier. they also uses the sata bus. which still uses ahci protocol meaning it is WAYY slower. and also this means there is no advantage for going m.2 sata over m.2 nvme AND there is no advantage for going m.2 sata over 2.5 sata because both sata use the same protocol which means the same speed.

at that point its just space management and budget reasons ig. but no reason to not go m.2 nvme and get a m.2 sata on the same board. you would much rather just go 2.5 sata ssds into sata ports instead of taking up your m.2 ports

also another thing i learned about chipset is that the north and south bridge chips are just an old design. they literally dont even do that anymore lmao

the new design is called pch which replaces north and south

[pearl heath]

M.2 NVMe SSDs are much faster than that

About double the speed

[pearl heath]

The NVMe protocol is used for any storage connected to the PCIe bus, using connectors like M.2 or U.2 or a PCIe slot

[spare sedge]

i understood north and south bridge when we went over it earlier but i was always wondering why i was only seeing one big "chipset" in the bottom right. lmaooo i always thought the north and south chips must have been inside of the big chipset in the bottom right of mbs.

[spare sedge]

it was an old video. thats prolly why. when m.2 first came out

[pearl heath]

Northbridge is integrated into the CPU, southbridge is what got turned into the PCH
This change was made... When intel released LGA 1155 I think
And when AMD moved to AM4

[pearl heath]

My WD SN770 reads at 6GB/s or so

[spare sedge]

really good to know. i had this still different

until now

i wonder what northbridge chipset looked like back then compared to a northbridge integrated cpu chip now lol

[spare sedge]

they mentioned that it depends on the pcie speed so im guessing the 3000 MB/s they mentioned was an older pcie gen. and not a nvme cieling speed.

the m.2 in the video didnt even have a 1tb

[lusty orchid]

that would be a gen 3 nvme drive

[spare sedge]

so vga dvi hdmi dp off the rear io = integrated video.

and regardless they are all bad and useless. so when choosing a mb. i shouldnt even care about the integrated video ports on the rear io

[lusty orchid]

still over thinking on the build, and over-analysing

[spare sedge]

makes sense

[lusty orchid]

only if the cpu has an igpu

[spare sedge]

are you saying integrated video wont even be on the rear io if the cpu doesnt have igpu. or are you saying you can't use the integrated video unless you have an igpu on the cpu.

[lusty orchid]

both

[spare sedge]

i dont understand how it could be both at all

[lusty orchid]

no igpu = no display via vga/dvi/dp/hdmi output from the built in ports

[spare sedge]

yeah i get that

thats #2

[lusty orchid]

you asked the same question there in 2 different ways, which shows that you're over thinking it

[spare sedge]

the first one is not the same

[lusty orchid]

nope, that's both

[lusty orchid]

it is, re-read what you asked

[spare sedge]

i did

still seems like two different things to me

[lusty orchid]

integrated video wont even be on the rear io if the cpu doesnt have igpu
can't use the integrated video unless you have an igpu on the cpu
same quest, different way of asking

[spare sedge]

im guessing its just #2

[lusty orchid]

nope, it's both

[spare sedge]

im guessing with #1 the igpu wouldnt matter if the there is no integrated video and whether or not the mb has integrated video has nothing to do with the cpu

meaning that in 100% of cases the igpu comment is only important if you have integrated video lol

[lusty orchid]

intergrated video implies and igpu, and igpu = intergrated gpu

[spare sedge]

ik what integrated graphics are lmao

which also doesnt matter cause the 7950x3d has an igpu

[lusty orchid]

if a cpu has it then it's useable straight off the mobo, if it doesn't then you can't, so simple

[lusty orchid]

which gets disabled the moment a discrete gpu gets added

[spare sedge]

yeah ik that now. that was #2

[lusty orchid]

nope

[spare sedge]

lmao

[lusty orchid]

you can manually enable the igpu after even if a dgpu is added

like i said, you asked the exact same question in 2 ways

[spare sedge]

i did not

[lusty orchid]

you did

[spare sedge]

psycho

whatever makes this end. im in

[lusty orchid]

if you're failing to recognise that, you're mental capacity is being diminished due to that lack of sleep you say you have

[spare sedge]

i already went to bed and woke up

[lusty orchid]

90 minutes is not sleep, that is a light nap

[spare sedge]

just leave me alone. i cant stand talking to oldtypes

[lusty orchid]

it is not enough for your brain to handle all the info you take in

[spare sedge]

i dont even have time to explain it lmao.

[lusty orchid]

you have insomnia basically, not that hard to explain

[spare sedge]

alr hey. im just going to block you tonight. i actually can't risk going on a tangent right now. and im easily made to be passionate.

i will just end up going on and on and i just cant do that right now. im too busy. its my last day off

dont type i wont read it until like hours later

[lusty orchid]

that's not being passionate at all in the long run

[spare sedge]

consider it like spoilers or something

alright so some parts on the rear io are also called cards

like the network interface card which is just the ethernet port

and the integrated sound card which is just the weird aux ports that i dont really know about.

[lusty orchid]

audio chip* not sound card

[pearl heath]

Video outputs on the motherboard are a decision for the motherboard designers to make

If the board has the ports but your CPU doesn't have an iGPU, then you can't use those ports

[spare sedge]

yeah i get it all now. thanks

[orchid gate]

Well cards can function like I/O

Some people buy networking cards, sound cards, Bluetooth adapters

[pearl heath]

A NIC is not an ethernet port, but a NIC can have a bunch of ethernet ports on it

[spare sedge]

yeah idk why they were calling rear io ports cards

but its a good source

oh wow so bios is a chip on the mb

and the chip is also non volatile

which makes sense cause bios has settings that you probably dont want to change every time you post

wait the settings are on cmos

[pearl heath]

Well
The BIOS chip needs power to retain settings, but doesn't need power to actually retain the firmware

[spare sedge]

which is another chip

but the cmos is volatile

why would they do that

[pearl heath]

Hence the inclusion of a battery on the motherboard

[spare sedge]

OHHH

thats why that battery is always there

[pearl heath]

Because imagine if you had to reflash the BIOS each time you changed a setting

[spare sedge]

so its literally always powered

[lusty orchid]

also cmos= bios, it is an eeprom ic

[spare sedge]

seems like a stupid ass way of doing it tbh. why not just keep the settings on a non volatile chip. i hear theres always fucking issues with cmos battery

[lusty orchid]

with a 3v battery that you'd only need to change once every 3-5 years

[spare sedge]

so the cmos literally needs power 24 7

[lusty orchid]

yes, the battery used to be soldered to the mobo originally

[pearl heath]

Because long term storage needs protocols to talk to it and other fun things to make it accessible
None of which are available during POST and startup

[lusty orchid]

but with it being removable, it's better off for if and when the battery loses charge, also such a low voltage it's not really much of an issue

[spare sedge]

oh that makes sense

[spare sedge]

yeah it must have been a pain back then

i think ive heard something about that

[lusty orchid]

when it used to be like this, yes it had issues

[pearl heath]

Also those issues are a pre-2007 issue

2007 ish ig

There's no issue with CMOS batteries anymore

[lusty orchid]

2000 or earlier issues tbf dude

[pearl heath]

Soldering them to the motherboard is a choice of days past

[lusty orchid]

been like this since 2000 at least

[pearl heath]

well idr exactly when motherboards stopped coming with soldered batteries lmao

[lusty orchid]

laptops cmos battery be like this mostly thankfully

basically a cr2032 that has solder tabs with wires attatched and heatshrink over

[spare sedge]

probably would have had to melt the metal to take it off lmao

for a repair

[pearl heath]

Well that is what soldering is

But the picture you replied to features a removable battery

[spare sedge]

yeah

[spare sedge]

okay

[lusty orchid]

you unsoldered them and soldered in a new one, though the pic wit the soldered on battery is pretty ideal due to showing off how it easily corroded

[spare sedge]

why are they twisted 1000 times

[lusty orchid]

because that's how they do it for a laptop

also it keeps the wire neater

[spare sedge]

so you wont see cmos on the mb. its on southbridge meaning its inside the pch now

[lusty orchid]

nope

[spare sedge]

which usually has a cover

[lusty orchid]

whats under the cover is the pch/chipset not your bios

[spare sedge]

bios isnt the same thing as cmos

and cmos battery isnt the same thing as cmos

ik the bios chip you can see

and ik the cmos battery you can see

[lusty orchid]

bios is viewable but not easily seen on the mobo

and the cmos battery is primarily for it

not for the chipset

[spare sedge]

tbh i think this is misinformation

so uefi is just the new bios, but everyone just still calls it bios

[lusty orchid]

in the case of one type of b650 riptide

the red circle is where the bios is

[spare sedge]

yeah i already know the bios chip is viewable on the mb

[lusty orchid]

but on a different mobo, it could be right up near the cpu socket

[vast geyser]

morning lads

[spare sedge]

so it doesnt have a defacto position / location (which is dumb) but i got it

[lusty orchid]

on the mobo i use

[spare sedge]

makes sense to me

they dont even try to keep the cmos battery near the pch or the cmos near the bios lmao

i wonder why they dont care.

probably cause the speed doesnt matter maybe

if anything having a bios closer to the cpu socket is probably optimal

battery doesnt matter

[vast geyser]

cmos is nicer to have close to you

in open spaces

[spare sedge]

lmao close to your heart

[vast geyser]

yep

[spare sedge]

forever in memory

[lusty orchid]

because it's just power only so distance away doesn't matter so much

[spare sedge]

yeah distance shouldnt matter for battery

[lusty orchid]

the only downside is the battery is usually hidden under your gpu 90% of the time

[pearl heath]

It does not

[spare sedge]

and ig bios to pch / cmos chip wouldnt matter either

[pearl heath]

Distance doesn't matter for the BIOS chip either

[spare sedge]

oh okayy

[pearl heath]

Distance only really matters for high speed connections like PCIe gen 4 to a PCIe x16 slot

[spare sedge]

so it doesnt affect boot time or post time ig

[pearl heath]

Since those signals tend to lose integrity with larger distances

[pearl heath]

Not at all

[spare sedge]

how many lanes is the cmos batter. is it just 1 lane to the pch

[pearl heath]

No lanes

Also it's connected to CPU not chipset

[spare sedge]

oh yeah cause lanes are

data

why is the cmos battery connected directly to the cpu

[pearl heath]

Not the battery

The BIOS chip is connected to the CPU directly

The CMOS that contains all the settings is connected to the BIOS chip

[spare sedge]

oh yeah i know that.

but this guide says that the cmos chip is not out and about randomly located on the board nearby the bios chip. it is located inside the pch chipset.

the bios chip should be connected to cpu and cmos.

the cmos chip should be connected to the cmos battery and the pch chipset should be connected to the cpu.

unless the chipset isnt connected to the cpu now.

i just know that before pch southbridge went to northbridge which went to cpu

so chipset >> south >> north >> cpu

[lusty orchid]

there is no south/northbridge

[spare sedge]

yeah ik. i said that

north is in the cpu and south is in the chipset / pch

[pearl heath]

That guide is either incorrect or old

[spare sedge]

so ig its called rtc chip

i wonder why they said the rtc chip is built into the pch now

[pearl heath]

RTC stands for Real Time Clock
That's not really a thing in modern computers, been replaced by a crystal oscillator and functionality integrated elsewhere

[spare sedge]

ik what it stands for

rtc chip is just another name for the cmos chip

since everyone just says cmos to refer to the battery

[pearl heath]

Because most people don't need or want to be so specific

Also RTC and CMOS used to be different

Functionality has been combined

[spare sedge]

so rtc is the old cmos

no this was pretty specific

[spare sedge]

so if my motherboard supports 3 2280 m.2 slots

that means i could go max capacity at about 24tb

[vast geyser]

yeah

[spare sedge]

it would just cost like $3000

[vast geyser]

yeah 8tb m.2 is expensive as hell

[spare sedge]

i wonder why

[vast geyser]

realistically, 12tb is the max you can go with m.2

[spare sedge]

oh i can just get a 8tb stick now and get more later

[vast geyser]

8tb stick costs $800

[spare sedge]

i mean tbh i could just get 3 right now

but no point when i might use 8tb by time the new ones come out

so if technology advances in the future and m.2 can put more storage on it

would a 12tb m.2 nvme not be compatible or would it still be compatible with future capacities?

sas go up to 18tb

[vast geyser]

ignore sas

[vast geyser]

would probably be compatible, if it will exist

[spare sedge]

ik

hdds go up to 22tb

[vast geyser]

i suppose

[spare sedge]

ssds go to 16tb

the cheapest 8tb m.2 is $750

[analog lily]

maybe try to avoid QLC SSDs tho

[vast geyser]

no shit

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Qvqqs/samsung-870-qvo-8-tb-25-solid-state-drive-mz-77q8t0bam ok but like actually, this is affordable

qlc though

hm

8TB is 8TB

[spare sedge]

what is qlc

and qvo

[analog lily]

QLC is fine for something like a long term storage device

QVO is the SAMSUNG name for it

[spare sedge]

what is it

[vast geyser]

qvo is the name basically

[analog lily]

QLC is a cheaper variant of a cell design

[vast geyser]

qlc is cheaper, but can have more capacity or smth

for cheaper

[analog lily]

they basically put more stuff in per cell which overworks the cell, reducing its durability and perfomance

but is cheaper

[vast geyser]

that explains it

[analog lily]

TLDR - the only advantage of a QLC is the price, everything else is worse

[vast geyser]

yep

for 1TB or 2TB, TLC is the same price, but ig 8tb is quite a difference

hol y fuck what it has 2880tbw rating

[analog lily]

idk what you need 8 TBs for tho

QLC could be a good option for like a NAS

[vast geyser]

the plan for the OP's pc is to be in a van

so HDDs are out of the question

[analog lily]

yea, but why does she need 8 TBs?

[vast geyser]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[analog lily]

if the main aim is gaming, then TLC is probably the way to go

for a NAS, QLC could be better

for like pure storage NAS

[pearl heath]

She doesn't at all ever

She would be fine with a 2TB drive but w/e

[analog lily]

probably, that's why 8TBs sounded like overkill

but maybe, as I said, she wanted to make a NAS?

[pearl heath]

I don't think so

She just wants to learn about every single piece of information related to her upcoming build

[analog lily]

just get a good TLC SSD then, especially if gaming is the goal

not all TLC SSDs are created equal

[pearl heath]

(they're now going to ask "What is TLC?")

[analog lily]

I think she gets the idea what the difference is

we explained QLC plainly above

[pearl heath]

One would hope

[lavish nexus]

If its leaking oil it has oil

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082

[lusty orchid]

you could with nvme drives but it doesn't mean that would be the max capacity the mobo can handle in total

[lusty orchid]

if itls leaking oil, i don't have oil no more and the engine stops working in the end

[lavish nexus]

Nahhhh just keep adding it

Simple fix

[lusty orchid]

but you shouldn't bother with any hdd over 18tb, and still though, van = no hdd's to be used

[lusty orchid]

inb4 she asks what's slc, mlc and plc

[vast geyser]

delete that

[lusty orchid]

tbf it the name of the model of the ssd that uses tlc nand

[nova patrol]

is she still on the usb or did she change to something else

[vast geyser]

storage

[nova patrol]

well. here we go for another month or two talking about storage

we are getting close to the end

closer to the end

[haughty quail]

idk anymore ok

but we are making progress

we'll be here another month or so

[brave brook]

has anything been determined for storage yet?

has it been banged into her head that the only storage that matters at all is nvme m.2 and sata 2.5"?

[pure mica]

Probably not ~~she didnt learn about it enough yet ~~

[brave brook]

😟

bruh

[rotund rain]

You could spend several lifetimes learning how complex this stuff is; there are so many rabbit holes that the ground beneath you crumbles due to how deep some of them go

[brave brook]

some are a rabbit mansion

and rabbit cities

[open iris]

She should get pata

[brave brook]

not a funny joke

[spare sedge]

its an okay joke sincee ik what it is

ik u.2 is enterprise like sas

and ik sas is just an upgraded scsi

and scsi is like an old cable (probably enterprise pata)

but this entry leadss me to think that u.2 is newer than sas

but sas is like enterprise version of sata

and ik you guys said the naming had no impact

but u.2 does look like m.2

and it mentions in the last sentence nvme

[pearl heath]

It is

[pearl heath]

Not really?

Get a picture of them both and you'll see

[spare sedge]

no im saying the name looks like m.2

idk what they look like

but basically this all leads me to think that

[vast geyser]

aaaaaaaaaaa

[pearl heath]

Naming conventions do not matter please keep that in mind

[spare sedge]

u.2 is the most recent enterprise interface

[vast geyser]

why r we talking about sas again

[pearl heath]

The fact that U.2 and M.2 look similar is coincidence and nothing more

[spare sedge]

and it is basically the enterprise version of m.2 and they are both nvme

is what im guessing

[spare sedge]

thats why i said this #1139391773253316608 message

yep it looks like it is

this means that u.2 is like m.2

so the u is ultra

ughh

they are called cards >.>

[pearl heath]

You really gotta be specific when stating these things

[spare sedge]

i can't but now i know how they are different too

[pearl heath]

Considering in a vacuum that sentence could mean:
They're similar in that they both use PCIe x4 links
They have similar names
They use similar naming conventions
They both can be NVMe

[spare sedge]

now i know the main difference is kind of timing. im guessing enterprise gets things a little earlier than consumer market.

and so u.2 is actually still a 2.5 form factor and not the new m.2 form factor so it really just looks like an ssd. it was capable of nvme but it looks like it was still mostly used with sata ahci.

and then m.2 which is newer is flipped in it's priorities it seems. it is mostly for nvme and the sata version is not as popular.

so u.2 is more of something a regular pc builder never really saw and was more of a transitional period for m.2

[pearl heath]

U.2's main attraction is the ability to use the NVMe protocol for drives on a cable

[spare sedge]

yep

[pearl heath]

Though, this is pretty much correct despite all of the weird sentences that came before it

[spare sedge]

but overall its ass cause basically the sff connector is expensive

[pearl heath]

U.2 is also still used plenty in the server space and on higher end boards

[spare sedge]

yep im sure it is. since its basically an upgrade sas. its better than sas in every way.

probably faster too

[pearl heath]

Well
U.2 is a connector
SAS is a protocol

[spare sedge]

sas is a connector too

i thought

[pearl heath]

There are SAS connectors, yes

[spare sedge]

i thought sas uses the ahci / sata protocol

[pearl heath]

SAS, in a vacuum, is a protocol

[spare sedge]

oh nvm. im p sure it uses scsi

[pearl heath]

SAS controllers are compatible with SATA drives, but SATA controllers are not compatible with SAS drives

SCSI is:
A protocol
A command set
A connector

[spare sedge]

sas 4.0 goes to 24gbps

[pearl heath]

Nah it goes to 22.5Gbps

Named 24G though because it sounds cooler lol

[spare sedge]

u.2 did use pcie speeds. but they just arent differentiated on pcpp

i knew it was nvme which meant this was the case

[pearl heath]

Because the only devices using the U.2 connector available to consumers were SSDs

[spare sedge]

but then i was just confused why i wasnt seeing pcie speed for it.

[spare sedge]

this makes more sense too

[brave brook]

will you fucking stop talking about u.2

[spare sedge]

page 1 - 14 are m.2 ssds with different pcie gens and lanes.
page 14 - 16 is just m.2 ssds with m.2 sata (whatever that means)
page 16 - 18 is just msata ssds (still not sure what mini sata is)
page 18 has pata 44 pin hdds and ssd which ig pata 44 pin has both (meaning it is probably newer) and pata 100 hdds which all i know is that they are really old and ugly.
page 18 - 19 has PCIe SSD cards (that probably use gen 3 tba) with varying lanes.
page 19 - 21 is just sas hdds and ssds (which all ik is that they are enterprise sata and use scsi)
page 21 - 56 is literally ALL just sata ssds and hdds sshds / hybrid drives of varying speeds.
page 56 - 57 is just u.2 ssds which i hear are bascially enterprise only too.

page 1-14 m.2 nvme ssds
page 14-16 m.2 sata ssds upgraded to nvme
page 16-18 i still dont know about msata
page 18 pata hdds old
page 18 - 19 PCIe AIC (add in card) SSDs that used nvme too actually
page 19 - 21 sas scsi ssds / hdds enterprise
page 21 - 56 sata (ahci) ssds / hdds / sshds upgraded to m.2
page 56 - 57 u.2 nvme / sata ssds enterprise

so aic ssds could still have a use if you really need the space.

sata ssds could still have a use if you really need the space

im done with pata, sas, and u.2

m.2 sata is funny. cause its kind of awful. it just takes up one of your m.2 slots and its worse lmao

you would literally be better off with a classic sata ssd in this case

cause you get extra storage AND you keep your m.2

AND the speed is a 1-to-1 for the sata gen

[pure mica]

https://tenor.com/view/me-looking-for-who-asked-looking-for-who-asked-who-asked-me-looking-gif-20318322

[haughty quail]

https://tenor.com/view/you-and-me-both-funny-animals-agreeing-agreed-me-too-gif-14671276

[brave brook]

what in the hell is that

i literally said all you should care about are nvme m.2 and sata 2.5"

[haughty quail]

In one 👂 and out the other, my friend

[brave brook]

why did you go through all 56 pages of pcpartpicker

you got right that m.2 sata is actually useless

[spare sedge]

57 pages*

[haughty quail]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-nerd-emoji-meme-speech-bubble-bubble-gif-25115885

[brave brook]

thats not any better

[spare sedge]

this just means i have learned more today and that i can learn more about other things now.

[haughty quail]

since we're learning things, can you learn about time management 🙏

but genuine question: how many parts do you have now? we're still on storage, right?

[spare sedge]

i will probably fill up my motherboards m.2 and then maybe have 1 or 2 sata ssds. the pcie slots are too valuable to me.

[lusty orchid]

90 % of that is useless info you know for what you plan to do

[brave brook]

*99%

[haughty quail]

I'm pretty sure she knows but just doesn't care

[spare sedge]

wasnt useless for me.

[vast geyser]

i dont think theyre valuable at all honestly

[haughty quail]

Consequences of actions except it's only a consequence for people who have introspection

Can we get a TL;DR on parts

[vast geyser]

there really isnt anything except for 7950x3d and 4090

[spare sedge]

i dont want to waste it on a aic ssd

[vast geyser]

ok, and what do u plan on using them for, lol

[spare sedge]

thats not even true

[lusty orchid]

you won't be touching that

[vast geyser]

what else is chosen

[haughty quail]

4090 is pretty good

[spare sedge]

probably just going to go 1 pcie slot

[vast geyser]

if itx, yeah

[spare sedge]

its in the post

[haughty quail]

The one with the 12k messages in it?

[lusty orchid]

it is though, you've not even properly selected a mobo yet

[haughty quail]

Sorry *16k

[brave brook]

this one

[vast geyser]

oh mb, and some ram got picked i thikn

[brave brook]

no the mb was paused.....for storage

[haughty quail]

...

[spare sedge]

what you said earlier about order is completely wrong.

i had asked about order many many times. and had gotten so many different answers

i literally couldnt choose a motherboard because i didnt even know how storage worked

now if it says 6 sata 6.0 i know thats the best sata and that i dont fucking need 6 sata lmao

[haughty quail]

We can argue objectively about what might be better, but it ultimately becomes subjective due to factors such as budget, personal preferences with a setup, etc.

[brave brook]

you dont need to know how storage works before the motherboard is chosen

especially for am5

[spare sedge]

now i can go back to motherboard and be even more confident but will probably take a break again for some other tech on the motherboard

if i knew all this beforehand i could have just picked a mb

but i didnt

but now i do

[brave brook]

what other tech

[spare sedge]

well

[brave brook]

just pick one PLEASE

[spare sedge]

ik usb

and ik

[brave brook]

it literally doesnt matter

[haughty quail]

Has what you learned now helped you build your PC in any way?

[spare sedge]

storage

hey look

if you arent here to help

[haughty quail]

It was a genuine question

[spare sedge]

i will just block you until you calm tf down

[lusty orchid]

not really, it is the correct order

[haughty quail]

I am calm, it was a genuine question 😅

[spare sedge]

i literally dont have the time to argue

[haughty quail]

Nobody's arguing

[spare sedge]

no lmao

[brave brook]

speaking of time, have you decided to sleep more?

[brave brook]

youre the one here asking for help

[lusty orchid]

with the order i said, which is a logical way of doing it is actually a correct way

[spare sedge]

you arent helping

just being awful to me.

just leave me alone

[haughty quail]

LMAO

[spare sedge]

you are already blocked

[haughty quail]

Being awful = giving genuine advice
Being helpful = agreeing to everything I say

Are we still on storage?

[brave brook]

wait, who's blocked

[lusty orchid]

me

[haughty quail]

She's probably blocked a ton of people. Doesn't matter

[lusty orchid]

i'm a 'psycho' in her words

[brave brook]

thats a horrible choice

[spare sedge]

everyone except woopy and randomness right now

[haughty quail]

She can block everyone she wants, doesn't make her less wrong

[spare sedge]

jim has been blocked for eternity

[haughty quail]

She could block Bill Gates for all I care, and she'd still ask why her PC's not built

[vast geyser]

blocking rauko is kinda wild though

[spare sedge]

he wasnt really around and isnt really helpful. he just says im wrong and then doesnt explain lmao

or refuses

[haughty quail]

?

[spare sedge]

or tells me to go somewhere else even though he knows the answer.

or pretends not to know the answer

[lusty orchid]

i know both me and random have sent her a build

[haughty quail]

99% of the people in this thread have been explaining it to you

[lusty orchid]

knowing the answer and spoon feeding it to a person is 2 different things

[spare sedge]

anyway

im gonna focus on msata

[brave brook]

no, stop

seriously

[pearl heath]

Please, save the focussing for topics that are actually relevant here

[brave brook]

msata does. not. matter.

[haughty quail]

👍

Did she change any of the parts that were on her original list?

[lusty orchid]

nope

[haughty quail]

Ah..

So is it a tier list atm to decide what to swap to?

[spare sedge]

page 1-14 m.2 nvme ssds
page 14-16 m.2 sata ssds upgraded to nvme
page 16-18 i still dont know about msata
page 18 pata hdds old
page 18 - 19 PCIe AIC (add in card) SSDs that used nvme too actually
page 19 - 21 sas scsi ssds / hdds enterprise
page 21 - 56 sata (ahci) ssds / hdds / sshds upgraded to m.2
page 56 - 57 u.2 nvme / sata ssds enterprise

[vast geyser]

remove msata

[brave brook]

stop giving a shit about msata

[vast geyser]

you cant use it

[haughty quail]

^^

[spare sedge]

primary option should be m.2 nvme ssds
secondary options could be sata ssds and maybe a sata hdd for capacity.
last resort could be aic ssds but i doubt anyone needs that much.

[lusty orchid]

page 1-14 m.2 nvme ssds
page 14-16 m.2 sata ssds upgraded to nvme
page 16-18 i still dont know about msata
page 18 pata hdds old
page 18 - 19 PCIe AIC (add in card) SSDs that used nvme too actually
page 19 - 21 sas scsi ssds / hdds enterprise
page 21 - 56 sata (ahci) ssds / hdds / sshds upgraded to m.2
page 56 - 57 u.2 nvme / sata ssds enterprise
litterally this

[brave brook]

for van life, hdds are basically out of the question

[spare sedge]

ill cross off msata after i get a brief synopsis of what it is

[vast geyser]

eh, sata SSDs have a place over there for sure

[brave brook]

look it the fuck up if you care so much about it

[lusty orchid]

they do, but lets be honest without selecting the mobo first you can't decide on what storage device you're going with

[haughty quail]

MSATA is similar to SATA in terms of how it functions, they're just smaller in size. You use it for connecting hard drives the same way you would use SATA, the main difference is size and shape of the connector

[vast geyser]

ive never heard about anything using msata

[lusty orchid]

limited on capacity tbf

[haughty quail]

Definitely, that's why they're not used much 😅

[brave brook]

yes its impossible to use on regular consumer motherboards

[lusty orchid]

several laptops used to use it

[spare sedge]

yeah 3, $1000 m.2s give you 24tb or realistically 12tb

OR you can spend a couple hundred on a hdd

[vast geyser]

how many years ago lel

[spare sedge]

i would only ever get 1 hdd if any at all

[pearl heath]

Why are you looking at those?

[spare sedge]

and honestly m.2 is already tbs so might not need shit

[pearl heath]

Oh, did you sort by RPM?

[vast geyser]

unless youre buying a really expensive rolls royce, i dont think HDDs are the option

[spare sedge]

yeah

[haughty quail]

If she wants the history: they were somewhat popular because of the ability to fit into laptops. They provide additional storage but not by much, so don't expect anything from it. The MSATA was phased out anyway for M.2

[lusty orchid]

nope that would give you 24tb of storage, not 12tb of storage

[spare sedge]

not actually looking at them

just an example pic

[haughty quail]

@spare sedge Does that answer your question?

[pearl heath]

7200 and 5400 are the only HDDs still mass produced

[brave brook]

hdds are not really an option for van life

[vast geyser]

https://youtube.com/shorts/lijxUFHvgxQ?si=Nvo5NC7DyiZqIGRb its pretty fuckin goated

[lusty orchid]

on the wrong kind of hdd

[lusty orchid]

5900 also

[pearl heath]

Who the fuck makes a 5900 RPM HDD

[haughty quail]

😭

[spare sedge]

so its basically just sata for laptops

[lusty orchid]

seagate

[vast geyser]

yea

[haughty quail]

That's exactly what we all said

[spare sedge]

is it smaller than 2.5 form factor

[haughty quail]

Good job!

[brave brook]

yes

now are we done with msata?

[lusty orchid]

4tb ironwolf comes in 5400,5900 and 7200 rpm

[haughty quail]

MSATA - as in mini SATA so yes

[vast geyser]

do u have creeper blocked

cause i gotta know if i have to answer again

[haughty quail]

She has everyone blocked

[lusty orchid]

everyone apart from you and random

[vast geyser]

alr

[vast geyser]

yeah

[haughty quail]

How does one even read chat messages if everything's blocked? Genuine question.

Does it just show

1 blocked message
1 blocked message
1 blocked message?

Does it show who's typing or does she have to individually click each message?

This is a genuine question btw

[lusty orchid]

basically yes

[haughty quail]

💀

[spare sedge]

it just shows 3 blocked

[vast geyser]

grandma was right all along

[brave brook]

if she wants good help, most people need to be unblocked

[haughty quail]

It sounds more tedious to click every single message in order to read it

[spare sedge]

only checking in here to find creepers answer

[vast geyser]

you can probably unblock him

such a nice lad

[haughty quail]

Didn't she block him?

[spare sedge]

creeper i just cant have encourage the crazy people

[brave brook]

you what?

[spare sedge]

i just need a couple hours cause some other people are a little more pragmatic right now instead of subjective

[haughty quail]

Isn't pragmatic what's needed? An objective viewpoint for your PC?

[lusty orchid]

so i'm a 'psycho' and i'm 'crazy' ?

[vast geyser]

thats like that one system of a down song

[haughty quail]

Because the subjective regarding budget and such apparently wasn't satisfying enough, so we switched to something more objective

[spare sedge]

so msata does sata 3 and all the normal sata. its just for laptop

[vast geyser]

yeah

[brave brook]

can you do something for me? if we say a product is irrelevant, will you please not ask about it?

[lusty orchid]

yes but no longer used in any modern laptop

[spare sedge]

and i did mention this before

[vast geyser]

yeah thats also true

m.2 nvme is basically the standard

[spare sedge]

but we basically took msata ssds in laptops and put them in desktop pcs and then it became the new standard

[haughty quail]

I'm confused. If you mentioned it, why focus on MSATA? If you know it was switched to M.2

[lusty orchid]

no

[vast geyser]

https://open.spotify.com/track/6VzV6RI7641o57TuqfGRpj?si=fec97ecf7fb74c88 @lusty orchid

[lusty orchid]

there is no msata port in any desktop

[brave brook]

@spare sedge

[haughty quail]

M.2 was chosen over MSATA

[lusty orchid]

it's m.2 in sata or nvme

[lusty orchid]

i have that in my playlist

[spare sedge]

msata is basically m.1 sata lol and both mean mini as in the form factor and then other tech from enterprise and aic card came in to all push towards a newer storage standard.

and not only this but the ahci was always a bottlenecking problem that people would talk about here and there

[vast geyser]

its such a great song

[spare sedge]

msata is sata tho only

not nvme

[brave brook]

stop fucking talking about ahci and msata, they dont matter at all

[lusty orchid]

and yet it's not in a desktop mobo of any kind

[spare sedge]

so wait

does that mean laptops just use m.2 now lmao

[haughty quail]

🤦‍♂️

[lusty orchid]

as nvme or sata, yes

[brave brook]

yes

how many times do i have to say: only m.2 nvme and sata 2.5" matter at all (sata hdds also, but not for van life)

[orchid gate]

I think she’s just using the pc build as a middleman topic, bc she believes most things to do with computer hardware lie in a PC

then grills us on that

[haughty quail]

Then shouldn't we move that discussion to another thread?

[orchid gate]

Agreed

or just ghost this one till she’s back on track

[haughty quail]

It's unlikely, to be honest

[lusty orchid]

which will never happen

[haughty quail]

It's just taking up space for people who actually are focused on PC building

[orchid gate]

Well actually what we need are the pundits to leave

[spare sedge]

so msata is is basically just a 3051 m.2 lmao

[orchid gate]

spectators and commentators still welcome

[haughty quail]

The mods already removed her other post, she just put this back up so idk

[spare sedge]

sata tho

[brave brook]

what the actual fuck. stop talking about msata PLEASE

[spare sedge]

thats not why they removed it lmao

[lusty orchid]

no it's not

[spare sedge]

they removed it because of people like you jim and pokey lmoa

[pearl heath]

mSATA and M.2 are entirely unrelated

[spare sedge]

how

[orchid gate]

Pokey is an entirely different breed

[haughty quail]

What was the "mistreatment from the staff" for removing your post?

[orchid gate]

you’re comparing dogs to hyenas

[brave brook]

sata and pcie are not the same

[spare sedge]

yeah Annelid

[haughty quail]

What happened with Pokey?

[vast geyser]

eh, asshole basically

[west rock]

16832 messages

[spare sedge]

he got muted and then i was told to remake the thread

[lusty orchid]

they've not even chose the best ram for the cpu choice tbh

[haughty quail]

Chat is this real

[orchid gate]

Welp he’s already made it here too

[haughty quail]

Hmm, what would I be defined as then

[orchid gate]

memory of our tirade is still fresh in my head

[brave brook]

oh man, what did he do.

^at least that many things

[spare sedge]

yeah cause they unmuted him and then they had to mute him again

[haughty quail]

I have no idea who Pokey is

[orchid gate]

I’ll brb bro

[teal pond]

there is some weird people on this platform

[orchid gate]

#1139391773253316608 message @haughty quail start here

[haughty quail]

God bless bro. I'll read

[spare sedge]

so far just unhelpful, new and you have assumed a lot about me, my build and people in the chat.

but maybe not an ahole

[lusty orchid]

got news for you, they're everywhere

[orchid gate]

Basically it’s fine at first then he just flame wars/victimised himself afterward

[haughty quail]

LMAO

[teal pond]

True

[haughty quail]

Match made in heaven

[pearl heath]

How are they related? They both can use the SATA protocol and they're both small connectors, that's about it

[spare sedge]

still blocked tho. i dont have time to talk about my life decisions / philosophy of learning.

[brave brook]

guys hold on, can we get back to some meaningful discussion?

[orchid gate]

Issue is there are a few fatal flaws in your learning/leverage of Human Resources

[lusty orchid]

did you look up those vids about solar setups?

[brave brook]

dream just grab a 1tb m.2 and 1-2 2tb m.2s and call it a day

[brave brook]

nah not yet, i forgot

[orchid gate]

First off is the spontaneous tangents on topics wholly unrelated to the necessary knowledge

Rn it’s like a first grader learning graduate mathematics

[haughty quail]

I'm still curious what the "mistreatment from the staff" was

[orchid gate]

how do we explain that?

[spare sedge]

they arent the same but i guess i just mean that msata influenced m.2 and its really just the upgraded form factor of m.2 even though different tech from other places influenced the defacto for m.2 like nvme which did not come from msata

[brave brook]

closing the other thread

[haughty quail]

You don't, it's called introspection lol

[haughty quail]

What did they close it for?

[orchid gate]

You’re assuming a lot about what you “learn” too

[brave brook]

not following the purpose of the forum (pokey, and someone talking about soup)

[spare sedge]

and the m in msata and m.2 both mean mini. and so the 2 is just the 2nd msata but we no longer use mini sata inside laptops we use mini 2 sata inside laptops and desktops

because its just smaller

and thats it

[orchid gate]

Alr just keep going

[haughty quail]

So that was "mistreatment"... for mods doing their job..?

[lusty orchid]

feels more like a 10 y.o trying to learn string theory and multiple aspects of theoretical sciences

[haughty quail]

I don't know if I understood that correctly

[brave brook]

i guess, idk anymore or care

[spare sedge]

i guess when i was saying the whole comparison joke thing about it being 3051 m.2 or rather a m.1 it was just to really compare it in terms of m.2

even though MOST m.2 dont even use sata and are just nvme now

which probably came about and influenced from aic cards and the like with sas being replaced by u.2

[brave brook]

....

[spare sedge]

i guess i wanted to know because i wanted to know the history after ssds

[orchid gate]

Meanwhile Sheldon - 😎

[spare sedge]

but it all makes sense to me now

[brave brook]

fucking ignore everything besides m.2 nvme, and sata 2.5" ssds

[spare sedge]

so we can move on

[haughty quail]

When it makes sense, can you build the PC

[spare sedge]

no need to debate analogies

[brave brook]

good, lets

[spare sedge]

ig i just meant that msata is ~30mm wide and ~51mm long

which gives you a good idea of the size cut

so m.2 is actually longer most of the time

but thats still better

just cause of nvme

nvme is what makes m.2 so good. not the m.2

[pearl heath]

Physical dimension matters little to M.2 or mSATA or whatever else you put into a PC

Because we have spec sheets and compatibility filters to make sure that everything fits

[spare sedge]

yeah ik pcpp does compatibility

and i already read the manuals and websites to see the m.2 compat

[brave brook]

guys imma leave for a while. someone ping if anything changes

[spare sedge]

so i can already see this mb has 3 2280s for example

[haughty quail]

Ping me when it's 2046

[spare sedge]

etc

its just interesting to know about msata

[brave brook]

fuck msata

[vast geyser]

fr all my homies hate msata

i never used msata but i hate it fr

[spare sedge]

and i also keep having flashbacks to glimpses of pc videos years ago when friends would put them on and i remember what they were saying

[pearl heath]

It's more that
Well
We all want to help you build a pc
That is all
We don't necessarily want to help with anything else (though I hate when I see someone state something incorrect)

[spare sedge]

even though back then i had no idea what they were saying

[brave brook]

ok from now on, anything "nice to know" or "interesting to know" should not be asked here

[spare sedge]

its not just nice to know

it helps me understand what im buying

[haughty quail]

How many times have there been threads remade?

[brave brook]

ahem

[haughty quail]

Did you buy anything?

[spare sedge]

and you people are just too elitist to want to help

[haughty quail]

Didn't you say you had an unlimited budget?

[spare sedge]

i talk to anyone else about this from any other server

[brave brook]

no, you just wont listen and drop things

[spare sedge]

and its completely understandable

i am spending thousands of dollars here lol

[brave brook]

just once

[pearl heath]

I do agree that some of yall are being entirely unreasonable with their questions

But.. Some of their questions are so far outside the realm of relevant to their PC build

Like, why was IDE ever brought up at all?

You don't need an understanding of IDE in order to make an informed decision of which M.2 NVMe drive to buy

[lusty orchid]

i get the feeling due to a guide they've read

[haughty quail]

?

[spare sedge]

i didnt bring up ide. but i looked it up after they did and found out its just the original name of pata and pata is the new naming to match sata

[pearl heath]

They have a practically unlimited budget

[haughty quail]

So then why is she calling us the elitist lmao

[spare sedge]

its a 5k budget now how about that

[pearl heath]

For all intents and purposes it is unlimited

[spare sedge]

5k isnt tho

[pearl heath]

And 5k will get you a 7950X3D and RTX 4090

[spare sedge]

3k - 5k how about that

[pearl heath]

With about $2.5k to spare fwiw

[spare sedge]

what does fwiw mean

[lusty orchid]

3k is all you'd need to spend at most

for what it's worth

[vast geyser]

for whatever its worht

[spare sedge]

every time i punch it into pcpp its more than 3k every time

[vast geyser]

took me 2 tries to type that oh my lord

[haughty quail]

Okay but.. doesn't explain why we're being called elitists

Not even the right word 😭

[orchid gate]

For what it’s worth

[lusty orchid]

namely because you're aiming to build a pc that would be regarded as a high end 4k gaming rig

[pearl heath]

Because you're picking parts that are more expensive than like pieces

[orchid gate]

Well let’s see. You compared the exact same GPU just different companies to find out which one would have a minuscule advantage over the others

[pearl heath]

For example, the suprim x liquid 4090 vs. literally any other 4090

[orchid gate]

And settled for a water cooled GPU

[spare sedge]

yeah cause i didnt even know how

[orchid gate]

🤷

[spare sedge]

the more i get closer

[lusty orchid]

for a build in a van, a 4090 realistically is not the right gpu

[pearl heath]

That too..

[orchid gate]

Better off at most with a 4070 Ti

[spare sedge]

hell naw

[lusty orchid]

or even a 6800xt-6950xt

[orchid gate]

Well I’d like to see you finance portable power :p

[spare sedge]

my gpu choice is literally cheaper than the fe

[orchid gate]

Uh huh

[lusty orchid]

i can tell you that will be 6-8k alone

[vast geyser]

yeah cause that FE is overpriced

[orchid gate]

Could be even lower

[spare sedge]

?? finance lmao

[orchid gate]

If you settled with ASUS TUF

[vast geyser]

the store sells it for way too much

[spare sedge]

its cause the fe is only found at min 1800 now

[lusty orchid]

you're buying a 4090 which is just overpriced as it is

[orchid gate]

It’s a verb too. But I think I also meant the noun >:)

[spare sedge]

msrp is no longer a thing lol

[orchid gate]

It is

[vast geyser]

again

the store just sells it for way too much

[spare sedge]

im not getting the fucking pny card lmao

[orchid gate]

TechPowerUp still gives points in its reviews for matching MSRP

[orchid gate]

That’s fine

Get an ASUS TUF and call it a day

cheaper but still reputable enough

[vast geyser]

tbf thats pricier

[spare sedge]

i dont know aboout techpowerup promo or whatever

[lusty orchid]

they make the only quadro cards tbh

[spare sedge]

like points idk about that

[orchid gate]

No they’re a review site

[vast geyser]

isnt it foxconn

[orchid gate]

Argh communication chaos strikes

[spare sedge]

for a shittier cooler that takes up more space?

[orchid gate]

I’m out

[lusty orchid]

nope, you'll find they're from pny

[orchid gate]

Alr alr hold your horses

[spare sedge]

for the same price?

[spare sedge]

why would i go the tuf when its the same price lmao

[lusty orchid]

asus tuf cards generally have one of the better cooler designs for gpu's