♡ i am still building my first pc ever ♡

[modest valve]

Google

Can we talk about something other than usbs

Bc if you’re gonna buy a mobo just for usbs then that’s a waste of money on another level.

[haughty quail]

lmao fr bro

the mobo i got was cuz it was cheap

nothing else

110 for a b450 and 5 1600

[orchid gate]

It was once not related to USB at all, but found in USB-C now

It was once an independent port, up til TB3 when it became integrated with USB-C

the tech was codeveloped by Apple and Intel

hence why it’s only found on Intel machines be it laptop or desktop, now that apple ditched their CPUs

Thunderbolt 1/2 are long obsolete

Thunderbolt 4 should be out now yes

[spring wraith]

yes

[orchid gate]

Became standard when 11th Gen Intel processors rolled out

TB5 isn’t a thing yet

I suppose you can think of Thunderbolt as a speed/bandwidth buff to regular USB-C

[spare sedge]

yeah you have

[orchid gate]

TB3? allows a max bandwidth of 40Gb iirc compared to 20Gbps max reg USB-C

probably wrong, likely a bit faster or slower

[spare sedge]

so thunderbolt 4 is the best one

[orchid gate]

.-.

Well you don’t have the others no more

unless it’s second hand stuff

or older models

Again, verification recommended

[spare sedge]

well i didnt realize thunderbokt was a usb

so what is it tho

cause ik thunderbolt isnt a type c connector. it just uses the connector

is thunderbolt like a spec? like how usb 3.2 1x1 is a spec or how usb 2.0 is a spec??

[orchid gate]

It isn’t lmao

[orchid gate]

@spare sedge look at this

Probably added hardware to a USB-C port

And u do need specialised cables to attain Thunderbolt speeds

[brave brook]

its the same connector as usb, and has usb capabilities, but it is not usb

[brave brook]

yes thunderbolt has a spec. we are on thunderbolt 4, for example

[nova patrol]

bro

im getting a computer science degree that by reading the chat

[orchid gate]

No you’re not, content vastly differs in a real one

I suppose you mean graduating from the theory part of a computer hardware/electronics engineering degree

[spare sedge]

yeah so thunderbolt 4 is the spec. but the connector is usbc

as opposed to others that use usbc with specs like USB 3.2 gen 2x2 etc

so it would seem its just a spec maybe

but its a good spec

and it seems to be always better than same gen usb

so its a lot like dp vs hdmi

kind of just premium usb now

it looks like tb1 and tb2 use mini dp. i had never even heard about mini dp until tb. and honestly it just looks like a type b

and then tb3 and tb4 use usbc

[spare sedge]

so it would seem usb4 is actually more confusing than it would have wanted to be

usb 1, usb 2, usb 3.2 10gbps = usb 3.2 1x1, 1x2 and 2x1 are all supported 100%
however, usb 3.2 20gbps = usb 3.2 2x2 is optional so the backward support is optional but the base 20gbps speed is supported 100%
40gbps speed on usb4 is also optional. so it wont always be 40gbps

dp and dp alt mode are both 100% guaranteed.
all those old host problems and communication stuff with that are all fixed 100%

but pcie is optional
thunderbolt is optional
and idk what usbc alt mode is

a big reason im also confused is

if thunderbolt isnt a usb. then why does usb4 want to support thunderbolt when thunderbolt uses a usbc connector

its so strange

its almost as if thunderbolt is trying to phase out dp

and that thunderbolt is just a new vga, dvi, hdmi, dp cable

but the difference with those is that

vga uses vga connector
dvi uses dvi connector
hdmi uses hdmi connector
dp uses dp connector
tb uses usbc lmao

which makes sense cause usbc wants to phase out all usb connectors

which would be nice

so its like the naming with usb4 is simple but its cause all the different usb4 options are literally hidden to you as a consumer

so nothing like usb4 2x2 or 3x2. to explain 20 gbps or 40 gbps to the end user.

so then

would it be better to have tb4? or usb4?

and then if usb4 supports tb3 and tb4 then whats the difference

when tb is supposed to be a pcie + dp cable

its as if the usb4 and thunderbolt specs are trying to merge

and so far this gen. it is not successful tbh. only partially merged tbh

so tb3 = 40gbps

tb4 = 40gbps

but tb4 has 32gbps pcie whereas tb3 has 16gbps

[pearl heath]

USB and thunderbolt is a fucking giant rabbit hole

It's awful and I don't understand it and I don't want to understand the mess that is the 'standard'

[spare sedge]

i understand all the stupid usb stuff.

but the thunderbolt stuff is also kind of dumb

[pearl heath]

And it's not like the bandwidth matters to the end user if all they're going to do is use a USB3 stick which will never come close to saturating the bandwidth availability

And DisplayPort usage through Thunderbolt, well, cards that use USB-C as an output are automatically thunderbolt cause no other protocol allows for display over USB-C

[spare sedge]

why are usb sticks / flash drives worse. ive heard that before growing up

[spare sedge]

i thought usb4 does now

and i know now that thunderbolt isnt really new. but before during tbunderbolt 1/2 it was just not as well known because of the shitty mini dp connector.

usbc was huge for thunderbolt 3/4

[pearl heath]

They're limited to USB 3.0 speeds
Which isn't exactly slow lol
But they're still limited

There are no USB 4.0 or thunderbolt flash drives

[spare sedge]

thats definitely true

how do i know a motherboard has a thunderbolt port? i dont understand how it can just say its thunderbolt when its just a usbc. and when i was scouring it never popped up

cause a thunderbolt port is just gonna be a usbc port

but we have a few different types of usbc now.

[pearl heath]

It will be stated in the spec sheet, as well as having a little symbol next to the port

[spare sedge]

ik thunderbolt symbol is nice. but how do you know if it is tb3 or tb4

and then tb1 or tb2 are basically phased out now?

ive never even heard of mini dp ports being a thing

and if they are, like why dont we see more of them if its just dp but smaller.

maybe one day we will get micro dp lmao

[fringe merlin]

We do. It’s on laptops and workstation cards mostly.

[pearl heath]

Don't need a smaller connector when you don't need a lot of display outs ig 🤷

[pearl heath]

Motherboard spec sheet

[fringe merlin]

Not sure why it’s not on consumer cards but i’m guessing since there’s space, they use regular DP for compatibility.

Also miniDP is kinda redundant now anyways when USB-C DP exists

It would not be surprising to see miniDP being phased out soon, especially on laptops

[spare sedge]

so tbh i never actually saw it in the spec sheet either

and buildzoid mentions something about how its never in the spec sheet or something

which is also something im confused about

because i analyzed the usb to the bone.

ik all the usb on those motherboards

but if tb is on any of them (which they should be) it wasnt mentioned at all

can we find a mb together for some examples so i know what phrasing to look for. its just so unclear to me

[pearl heath]

Oh if buildzoid states that they don't mention it then I believe him

The only way you'd find out then is by looking through motherboard manuals, or knowing what controllers imply which standards are used

In any case, just remember
You're likely never actually going to use the thunderbolt port anyway lol

[spare sedge]

do you know what the controllers are called

im guessing its probably listed normally on intel mbs

and idk why amd does this

or maybe just am5

[pearl heath]

It's listed just as badly don't you worry

[spare sedge]

lol oof

they do well with dp. like it'll just be usb 3.2 gen 2 with dp. simple.

why cant they just be like. usb 3.2 gen 2x2 with thunderbolt 3

a friend showed me this just now

https://www.logicalincrements.com/

[pearl heath]

That has some really weird storage choices

[pure mica]

Ok wtf are we still fricking at usb for 3 week

[spare sedge]

thunderbolt is different

[pure mica]

Not really

It pretty similar

[vast geyser]

the ram for the monstrous tier is funnier

[pearl heath]

5200 kek

[vast geyser]

13900ks with with 5200

then spending $500 on a case

lel

should just buy a lancool 3

its the perfect case

[spring wraith]

because the method of connection is much slower than sata or whatever

[spring wraith]

absolutely not

[vast geyser]

tell me 1 flaw

[spring wraith]

u need a v3000 plus

[spring wraith]

fitting 420mm rads

iirc

[vast geyser]

it supports 420mm aios

[spring wraith]

it "supports" them

just like how@the p500a "supports" them

[vast geyser]

ok thats a sick case

[spring wraith]

yeah i rlly wanna buy one but cant justify it

cuz i have an external rad

[vast geyser]

how much is one

[spring wraith]

like 450

if i was gonna use all internal rads id get one prob

but external too optimal

[vast geyser]

hm

[brave brook]

Depends

I have a couple Samsung flash drives that have usb 10Gb

[vast geyser]

yeah but theyre not hitting that

aint no way

[brave brook]

I mean, it was faster in a 10Gb port than a 5Gb port

[pearl heath]

Theoretical bandwidth capabilities almost never reflect real world numbers

[brave brook]

yeah, i just copied a video, and it was 60MB/s

[lavish nexus]

Still not terrible

Faster then my internet 🫠🥲

[vast geyser]

60MB/s is not bad

of internet

of storage? kinda terrible

[lavish nexus]

Internet

Storage is terrible

[spare sedge]

so is thunderbolt 4 better than dp 2.1a?

and is thunderbolt 4 better than pcie gen 5?

[open iris]

really wonder how you came to either of those conclusions

[spare sedge]

those are questions

not conclusions

thunderbolt carries dp and pcie

i already know how it stacks up against usb

40gbps its basically just better than usb4

[open iris]

well

usb 4 can go to 120gbps

its the same as displayport

worse than pcie gen 5

[open iris]

if the cable has display port 2.1

when i say worse i mean its bandwidth

compared to a direct connection

[pearl heath]

Thunderbolt can carry DisplayPort and PCIe signals

[brave brook]

But only pcie x4

[open iris]

also yeah same with like usb4

they dont always do everything they technichally can do

[brave brook]

Thunderbolt 4 is just the top spec of usb 4

[spare sedge]

i thought usb4 was 40gbps? its actually worse cause the spec standards are sometimes not as strict on companies to get the cert so usb4 is one of those. meaning yoi can actually get a 20gbps usb4 since that is the minimum rated.

despite this. ik usb4 is dual lane

thunderbolt tho im p sure can go to 8 lanes.

and thunderbolt 3 has weird royalty fees which i remember being a thing pre covid

thunderbolt 4 is more strict on their minimum ratings and is royalty free

[spare sedge]

so most thunderbolt is x4? i heard some could do x8?

[brave brook]

It’s 40 or 80

Or maybe 120

[brave brook]

Not that I know of

[spare sedge]

if thats the case its definitely queen of usb but still not good enough to be top in pcie

[brave brook]

It’s not usb

Well

[open iris]

usb 4 v2

[brave brook]

Actually it is, it’s the top spec of usb 4

[spare sedge]

that makes sense im reading an article on that now

thunderbolt really is just the dp of usb

since dp is just premium hdmi

it even daisy chains like dp does

[brave brook]

except hdmi can do ethernet, and dp cant. also, dp uses an extra pair of wires for data transfer instead of a clockcycle (like hdmi)

[teal pond]

Ok dream, what part is next

[brave brook]

but anyway, you probably wont get thunderbolt because its an intel thing

but yes, whats next

[open iris]

amd boards can have thunderbolt/tb controlers

[pure mica]

^

[brave brook]

i know

i said probably

[open iris]

she 100% has 0 use for thunderbolt though

but probably will end up wanting anyway

...

[brave brook]

unless she specifically looks for a mb with it, but we need to keep her from doing that

[pure mica]

She like usb so much lol

[open iris]

optimizing usb choices just to end up only plugging in a keyboard and mouse

[pure mica]

Probably that

😂

[brave brook]

i use more usb than my motherboard has

[orchid gate]

If she doesn’t switch anything/need to troubleshoot within a decade this’ll need to happen all over again lmao

This knowledge probably won’t help anyone by then aside from retro fanatics

[orchid gate]

Rear IO included?

[brave brook]

well, i basically only use my rear io

but i got a usb card and most of them are plugged into that, because i wanna keep my 10gb ports just in case

[orchid gate]

Which leads me to ask, any (theoretical) performance differences between rear and front IO?

[brave brook]

maybe some miniscule latency, but you get that anyway with any usb hub. realistically, theyre identical

[orchid gate]

Hmm is your airflow setup reverse flow or smth

[brave brook]

???

[orchid gate]

Because if I dedicated myself to rear IO I’d be blushing from the exhaust

Probably cuz im stupid enough to have it facing me 💀

[brave brook]

oh, my rear io isnt facing me

[orchid gate]

I mean a mirror on the wall behind it would really help with placement

if it isn’t facing u

[brave brook]

i have a usb hub on my desk that i use for quick plugging usb devices

[orchid gate]

provided you realise shit is backwards

[vast geyser]

if you want low latency, thats what the ps2 port is for!

[orchid gate]

One of the useless things I remember about it

And don’t you have to restart PC when you plug something in

Or when the peripheral is disconnected

[brave brook]

when you plug ps2 in?

[orchid gate]

Yes something along those lines

[orchid gate]

“For security reasons”

[brave brook]

wait wdym

[orchid gate]

Wikipedia had some words on how it was for device security back in the day

or maybe that was it’s predecessor

IBM 5-pin and all that

[orchid gate]

Ahm not really, HDMI can do audio and Ethernet too with a single port and cable

[brave brook]

pretty sure dp can do audio too

lemme check for sure tho

[orchid gate]

Doesn’t seem to have much support from what I see

even in Linux there’s an option for HDMI audio but not DisplayPort (Linux mint 21.12)

[brave brook]

it can do audio

[orchid gate]

Ic

[brave brook]

https://www.cablematters.com/Blog/DisplayPort/does-displayport-carry-audio

[orchid gate]

HDMI Ethernet is dead tbh

[brave brook]

yeah lol

[orchid gate]

last I heard it was supposedly for Nintendo switch and the lot

[brave brook]

tvs have wifi now so ppl just use that

[pure mica]

Yep

[orchid gate]

I still use Ethernet with mine (new stuff)

but not via HDMI

[brave brook]

lol

how does hdmi even do it

[orchid gate]

well consider it’s full acronym

High Definition Media Interface

Didn’t state what media specifically 🤷

[brave brook]

i mean how do you "inject" ethernet into hdmi

[vast geyser]

its doable

[pure mica]

You unplug it and lost display at the same time (manually)

[brave brook]

well obviously

[orchid gate]

Can’t say how for the cable, but it has to do with the TV being compatible with HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel)

which has either its own separate processor or baked into the TVs primary one

from what I’m seeing

[orchid gate]

Not sure which it is

[brave brook]

it doesnt really matter anyway, so i dont wanna discuss it here anymore

[spare sedge]

this doesnt matter at all

its open source

[brave brook]

so?

most amd boards dont have thunderbolt

also i doubt its open source

[open iris]

It's allso not open source

[pure mica]

Fact

[brave brook]

i didnt think so

[orchid gate]

It is “open source”

But devices that choose to be won’t be termed “Thunderbolt”

So if they aren’t released with the certification (usually PCIe but connected via USB devices like an eGPU) they never get it

[brave brook]

for thunderbolt 4, all it means is that intel has validated that the usb 4 port(s) on the device have all the optional capabilities available

[orchid gate]

Right

[spare sedge]

it depends per port / per header. theres 4 types of headers

[brave brook]

we're obviously comparing identical speced port/headers

[spare sedge]

whats ps2

[brave brook]

mice and keyboards used it before usb

[orchid gate]

Actually creeper I see a use for Thunderbolt in dreams case

[vast geyser]

ps2 port

[orchid gate]

It can do power delivery minimum 15W and up to 100W

[vast geyser]

has the lowest delay out of all input types i think

[brave brook]

why would that be useful

[orchid gate]

She plans on van life

probably least belongings best solution

[vast geyser]

is it noticeable? no
is it cool? yeah

[orchid gate]

otherwise no different to living in a cramped mini home

[vast geyser]

van life seem trash

[brave brook]

she'll need some big battery anyway, which will have high power usb/power outlets anyway

[orchid gate]

Yea

[brave brook]

so its still useless

[orchid gate]

More convenient to plug into the PC

Closer to her

[brave brook]

eh

[orchid gate]

rather than run a 10m cable

[brave brook]

speaking of vanlife, is that confirmed

[orchid gate]

So her phone doesn’t slip behind it and she loses it

[orchid gate]

@spare sedge

[orchid gate]

How much lower :p

0.1ms vs 1ms?

[vast geyser]

i dont know

[brave brook]

miliseconds so few that its just fractions of human reaction speed xD

[vast geyser]

all i know about it is that it bypasses some stuff and gets the input instantly

[orchid gate]

Are there any drawbacks aside from general obscurity using PS/2

Seems maybe macros won’t work

[vast geyser]

there arent any devices made in the last 5 years

[orchid gate]

Do adapters exist 🙂

[brave brook]

they do exist

but dont buy one

[vast geyser]

then whats the point

[pure mica]

And you will get probably a delay from it

[brave brook]

thats just buying ewaste for a stupid connector

[orchid gate]

great

[brave brook]

whether you buy one for a ps2 keyboard to plug into usb, or a usb keyboard to plug into ps2

[orchid gate]

Latter

although that said USB doesn’t have much latency either

[vast geyser]

oh right, also, no more rollover

[orchid gate]

Nowadays

[vast geyser]

tbf only like really cheap keyboards have rollover but still

[orchid gate]

what?

n-key rollover still exist

[brave brook]

so you can press every key and its recognized?

[orchid gate]

If you mean the keyboard itself

[orchid gate]

Yes

That’s the one decent feature on “gaming keyboards”

Logitech has 26-key rollover

perfect for spamming

[vast geyser]

i mashed my face in my $30 keyboard and all of the keys worked

[orchid gate]

Despite a USB connection

[vast geyser]

i take it as a W

yeah i can press my entire keyboard

[brave brook]

lol

[orchid gate]

I just drop the keyboard packaging on the board itself to test

Or rather, smack the keys with it

[vast geyser]

fair

[brave brook]

genius

[orchid gate]

because the packaging is large enough to press all of ‘em

Another way to test basic rollover is to use a website key tester

[brave brook]

yeah

[orchid gate]

press two or more keys and see if they simultaneously register onscreen

[vast geyser]

thats what i did

[orchid gate]

Most valid result = combine both strategies

[brave brook]

yeah lol

[orchid gate]

To see if mine even works

probably tape some dumbbells on top too so there’s enough force applied

and use both arms to smack with the packaging

[brave brook]

so violent

[vast geyser]

i need to buy heavier dumbbells..

i only have 1 4kg..

[orchid gate]

Too much for me already

I have 1.5kg x2

[vast geyser]

impossible

4kg is nothing

[orchid gate]

Just another CoD noob raging

[orchid gate]

Says the woopyman who can probably woop my ass

[vast geyser]

im like only bones

[spring wraith]

yep

[spring wraith]

low polling rate

maxes out around 250hz

usb can run 8khz+

[spare sedge]

okay i remember these

[spare sedge]

in this case there shouldnt be any difference between a usba 2.0 header and a usba 2.0 port on the rear io in terms of performance.

[spring wraith]

@spare sedge thoughts?

[brave brook]

nope

[spare sedge]

its been confirmed

[brave brook]

alrighty then

[vast geyser]

youre making me want to play it

[spare sedge]

i like racing

looks kind of like retro analog gaming tho which i also like

[vast geyser]

what

😭

its assetto corsa 😭

[spring wraith]

get on

[spring wraith]

eh kinda true

[vast geyser]

dude i tried forza once before and hit every wall imaginable

[spring wraith]

it looks realistic af when u look at details though

[spring wraith]

forza physics are shit

play a real racing game

[vast geyser]

euro truck

idk whats better though for drivign realistically, euro truck or city car driving

[brave brook]

it takes practice (and a good handling car)

[spring wraith]

prob euro truck

@brave brook get on no hesi

[vast geyser]

cause like the entire point of city car driving is for the most realistic driving learning experience

[brave brook]

?

[spring wraith]

assetto server

[spring wraith]

custom cars on it arent super realistic

[brave brook]

i dont have assetto corsa

[vast geyser]

is there a point in going for the ultimate edition or nah

[spring wraith]

yes

its $8 on sale

[spring wraith]

u need it for a lot of servers

[vast geyser]

so much..

[spring wraith]

No

[spare sedge]

jak x

[spring wraith]

so real

[spare sedge]

i think im nearing the end of thunderbolt research

not only is thunderbolt better.

but it has been for a long long time

tb2 was almost on par with usb4 and tb3 and tb4 are better

[vast geyser]

anyway, almost nothing uses thunderbolt so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spare sedge]

but usb4 carries tb3 so its weird

[brave brook]

thunderbolt 4 is just the top spec of usb 4 so.....

[brave brook]

what?

[spare sedge]

so they are virtually the same except usb4 can have a lower spec for approval

[brave brook]

yes

[spare sedge]

cause usb4 doesnt do audio video but the tb3 in it allows it to.

what makes usb4 so good is literally the thunderbolt in it lol

[brave brook]

it depends. usb 4 can do a lot of things, or it can do none of them

which is really ass imo

[spare sedge]

this means if you get usb4 and its rated for 40gbps its basically the same as thunderbolt 3 and you shouldnt really care at that point

thunderbolt 4 is just a safe buy cause its even more strict with protocols

[brave brook]

its not the same as thunderbolt 3, unless it has all the other special capabilities thunderbolt 3 has

[spare sedge]

usb4 is worse than thunderbolt 3

in terms of data

[brave brook]

again, it depends

[spare sedge]

not really

[brave brook]

yes really

[spare sedge]

even if usb4 is 40gbps its not better

not only this but they did it sooner than usb4

usb4 is really just catching up

like microsoft edge lmao

when it got chromium

[brave brook]

catching up to what

[vast geyser]

best browser

[spare sedge]

its come so far. i wish people would see that

tb

[brave brook]

um

[spare sedge]

anyway tho

[vast geyser]

argue against it all you want, its the truth

[brave brook]

well, with bing search, yes

[spare sedge]

only browser enthusiasts know

[vast geyser]

idk why u would use edge without bing

[brave brook]

lol

[spare sedge]

should have seen my web browser research compared to thjs

so in the end. dp is still the best

[vast geyser]

sure

[brave brook]

weve established that already

[vast geyser]

bit old but works

ok ig its only hdmi 2.0 and dp 1.4

[spare sedge]

dp vs hdmi is easy. learned that one already

[brave brook]

dont ask about dvi

[vast geyser]

yeah

so what else is there

[spare sedge]

i just didnt even know tb was in the running until now

i already know everything about dvi vga

[vast geyser]

i wont even

anyway

[spare sedge]

i was using a dual monitor set up on my purple laptop in 2009 with vga.

[vast geyser]

so.. when is the motherboard getting picked

[spare sedge]

idk

youll know when i announce it

[vast geyser]

itx, matx or atx

[spare sedge]

and edit the post

[spare sedge]

looking more like itx

each day

[vast geyser]

itx will prob be the best for vans

[spare sedge]

idk why anyone would go atx currently speaking

based off what ik now

[vast geyser]

cause its usually the cheapest

[spare sedge]

lmao

[brave brook]

what?

[vast geyser]

and easier to build in

[teal pond]

dream if you get an itx board will you go itx case?

[vast geyser]

cause itx is a bitch to build in

[spare sedge]

yea

[vast geyser]

+harder to fit large sized gpus

[teal pond]

it’s still possible though

just not much room for other things

[brave brook]

yo first you said itx is the best becaause its easier to build in, and then said its a bitch to build in

[vast geyser]

what

when

[brave brook]

start here

[teal pond]

I think he meant atx is easier

[vast geyser]

the best for vans
cause its the smallest

so it doesnt occupy space

[brave brook]

and easier but a bitch to build in?

[vast geyser]

ATX is easier to build in

[teal pond]

wait wont dream have to air cool if she goes itx case

[brave brook]

it depends on the case

and anyway, the 7950x3d is only 130w, so itll be pretty easy to cool

idk about the liquid suprim 4090 tho

[teal pond]

did she decide on that

[vast geyser]

axp120 should be enough if LP is needed

[teal pond]

gpu

[vast geyser]

yeah

[brave brook]

yes

[vast geyser]

but yeah, gl making a 4090 fit in itx cases

[teal pond]

It is the liquid suprim one though

just need room for the fans

[brave brook]

yes, she wants specifically the liquid cooled one

idk why

[teal pond]

It handles heat better

and performs the best because of it

[brave brook]

does it though?

[teal pond]

Yes

[vast geyser]

matx might be the play

[teal pond]

it doesn’t really matter though because most 4080s and 4090s are overbuilt

[vast geyser]

matx with a jonsbo d31

https://caseend.com/data/jonsbo/jonsbo-d31

[brave brook]

hows this mb
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cRQcCJ/msi-pro-b650m-a-wifi-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-pro-b650m-a-wifi

[vast geyser]

😭

[brave brook]

what

[teal pond]

it’s not a bad board for what dream wants as of what I know

I missed like 5k messages 😅

[brave brook]

why that emoji

[vast geyser]

i refuse to elaborate

[brave brook]

im just looking at pcpartpicker.

[brave brook]

why

[vast geyser]

going from an x670e to the msi pro b650m

[teal pond]

x670e is better for atx

[brave brook]

matx is only b650

the only x670e is like $570

[brave brook]

and whats wrong with that

[lavish nexus]

Ngl display ports 2.0 is pretty dank glad the 7900 xtx has it

Think the 4090 is stuck on 1.4 but that May just be the reference model

Really no need for it yet tho. No gpu can really utilize DP 2.0 fully so

[pearl heath]

Weird take

[teal pond]

Isn’t there less features on the itx x670e rather than the atx?

[pearl heath]

Well, yes
I mean more of a weird word to use
It's not necessarily any better than B650, just depends on the features the user needs on the board for whatever form factor they pick

[copper quest]

How is this still going

Holy

[brave brook]

She wants to know a little too much about everything

[copper quest]

Yeah…way too much

[spare sedge]

ill check it out at 10pm

[sonic oasis]

Must I point out that’s not a 4090 and there isn’t custom looping in there

[brave brook]

If you’re looking at the picture in the original post, that’s not the pc being built. That’s the esthetic example

[sonic oasis]

Ah okay

[brave brook]

thats if you want matx instead of itx, which may be better for van life, because it has slightly more expansion, and the cases are bigger (making it easier to build in)

[spare sedge]

it literally just depends on the feature set

if an atx board has 1 extra usb. then i dont care lmao

[orchid gate]

Well mATX is nothing compared to ITX in terms of size reduction

literally slice the bottom 1/4 off and you get mATX, at least the slightly bigger ones

[spare sedge]

first thing i will say about msi mbs is that they are usually overpriced

wait msi stands for micro star international?

kind of odd

[brave brook]

that ones not

it doesnt even have an attached io shield

[spare sedge]

yeah this looks like a fairly priced board

but idk somethings off

maybe not

it just doesnt seem to have header support unless its mentioned in the manual

it has a decent amount of 2x1

and even the rare 2x1 front header

i found it

manual only

so a 2x1 header no support. which is normal

1x 1x1 header with +2 support which is above average

and then +4 usb2 support for 2 usb2 headers is normal

oh ik what i did wrong.

i forgot to subtract from pcpp

[brave brook]

Doesn’t matter

[spare sedge]

its too late lmao

[brave brook]

Wdym

[spare sedge]

you always read the first message and then reply before reading the rest. but thats fine. i do the same thing too sometimes

but basically, i already found the header support in the manual after making that comment

[spare sedge]

this

[brave brook]

Ohhh yeah

[spare sedge]

you are right usb doesnt matter tho. cause the bare minimum mbs have a decent usb spread. so the entry level usb is already not far from the top tier boards.

its still a good thing to compare for mb enthusiasts

[brave brook]

The headers don’t matter

[spare sedge]

the amount of usb2 header support is actually slightly above average on this board

[spare sedge]

they matter for front io

[brave brook]

It has usb 3 a and usb c so basically any case will have all the front io working

[spare sedge]

yeah but its rear io is atrocious if im being honest. i was already being generous before to try to give it a chance.

[brave brook]

I’m sorry?

[spare sedge]

no usbc off the back and only 1 usbc off the front

[brave brook]

8 usb is pretty good

Especially for $160

You can’t compare it to an x670e

[spare sedge]

its only the 2nd board ive reviewed with this bad of a rear io

im comparing it to this $80 board right now

[brave brook]

Link

[spare sedge]

in which case, its still definitely better

but thats why i made that comment about how entry level usb spreads are already p good

if the focus is budget, then everyone is always going to be happy with usb is what im saying because usb does scale with the price of the board but there are really good budget options tbh

especially if usb quantity is more of a concern rather than speed

[brave brook]

Link plz

[spare sedge]

im kind of impressed with its front io tho

10 usb front 8 usb rear

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Mh3NnQ/gigabyte-a620m-s2h-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-a620m-s2h

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gigabyte+A620M+S2H+Micro+ATX+AM5+Motherboard&ie=UTF-8

cheapest board am5 has to offer

[brave brook]

Don’t buy an a620

[spare sedge]

yeah ik

i sent you the links cause you begged me to

[brave brook]

Yeah I wanted to know what you were comparing it to

[spare sedge]

hey tho, any more good board recommendations you got?

[spare sedge]

i gotchu

[brave brook]

what form factor

[spare sedge]

any

has to be am5 with wifi tho

[brave brook]

yeah obviously

[spare sedge]

any wifi is fine

for comparison sake

[brave brook]

heres a pretty cheap atx b650
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LwNxFT/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi-atx-am5-motherboard-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi

[spare sedge]

i finished all of buildzoids recommendations

probably wont do hdv since it has no wifi

p sure livemixer has no wifi as well

you really like msi

[brave brook]

lol

yeah

this has......a color scheme
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ckhFf7/asrock-b650-livemixer-atx-am5-motherboard-b650-livemixer

[brave brook]

i think its because they make a lot of motherboards

or it seems like it

[spare sedge]

this board has a much better rear io

[brave brook]

i mean, if you need 8 usb 2 connections

[spare sedge]

for only $60 more

[brave brook]

oh this doesnt have wifi

or does it

[spare sedge]

it doesnt

ive already reviewed the livemixer upon request

[spare sedge]

this

[brave brook]

oh yeah

[spare sedge]

also the color scheme is ugly as hell lol

buildzoid is out of his mind

[brave brook]

someonehas bought that because that is their color scheme

[spare sedge]

its a great board tho

livemixer is one of those good bang for your buck mbs

i would love to see it irl but thats it

[spare sedge]

i was actually talking about the tomahawk here tho

[brave brook]

this also looks pretty solid. its another esthetic choice
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/CtPQzy/asrock-x670e-steel-legend-atx-am5-motherboard-x670e-steel-legend

[spare sedge]

asrock is a lot nicer than i thought they would be

[brave brook]

lol

they used to be the underdog, but have come a long way

they make amazing cheap boards

[spare sedge]

yeah i like them

[brave brook]

like the x670e pg lightning

although, that also doesnt have wifi

the itx choices are like nothing

dang, asrock
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qcbRsY/asrock-b650m-pro-rs-wifi-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-b650m-pro-rs-wifi

[candid plume]

Is this a good one? Im deciding between that one or b650m-hdv/m.2

[vast geyser]

yeah its good

[spare sedge]

the hdv has no wifi

[spare sedge]

i think the itx choices are very stand out

dont need 10 if almost all 6 are really that good

[brave brook]

On pcpartpicker, there’s like 5

[spare sedge]

theres 6

and they are all very good

dont need 10 or 20 itx boards

plenty of options here

[vast geyser]

ok but 1 issue
what case can you buy that fits a 4090 confidently

[spare sedge]

5 or 6 is plenty

well yeah see that idk

[brave brook]

Except the a620

[vast geyser]

a620 is fine

[brave brook]

But it’s not “very good”

[candid plume]

Im using lan anyways, the pro rs im choosing also doesn't have wifi

[spare sedge]

in that case get the hdv not the pro rs

[haughty quail]

Was thinking similar

[brave brook]

Matx

Is a solution

[spare sedge]

okay so which do you think is more important

usb or pcie

[vast geyser]

depends on the person

[spare sedge]

i feel like most people only need 1 pcie

and 1 m.2

[vast geyser]

maybe 2 m.2

[spare sedge]

or like 2

[brave brook]

Yeah I’d say 2 m.2

[spare sedge]

so cpu lanes are literally faster than chipset lanes

do motherboards come with windows sometimes or no

[pure mica]

No you need to install windows yourself

[spare sedge]

does it come with any parts

[pure mica]

Ye it say it support it it not installed

[spare sedge]

so then this is just the os that the mb supports not what it comes with

[pure mica]

Ye

[spare sedge]

what are certifications?

[vast geyser]

its certified for those things

what those are? no idea

[spare sedge]

so pcie is basically just hardcore internal usb.

[vast geyser]

probably doesnt matter

[spare sedge]

i think i need to learn about storage before picking a mb

[vast geyser]

not really

i dont see a point

you just have: nvme storage
and sata

[pure mica]

Fact lol

Forget hdd

[vast geyser]

buying a m.2 sata is basically trolling

[spare sedge]

okay so lets get started

this is what i see when i open pcpp

[vast geyser]

yeah

[pure mica]

I got a 2 990 pro and 2 980 pro in my case

[vast geyser]

m.2 2280 nvme ssd

[lavish nexus]

TeamGroup mp44L 🤌🏻😮‍💨

[vast geyser]

..ok

[pure mica]

Cause they good...

[vast geyser]

just so you know, those provide no benefit over a normal sata 2.5 ssd lol

[lavish nexus]

Overpriced*

[vast geyser]

but you spend 5x more

[pure mica]

🤌🏻

[spare sedge]

name doesnt matter.
price / gb doesnt matter
rating doesnt matter
price doesnt matter

what is capacity?
what is type?
what is cache?
what is form factor? how does a storage device have a form factor lmao
and what is interface?

i just want answers in your own words. i have a p good idea about capacity i just dont really know whats a lot or if it is important or whats the difference from cache is or the difference from ram really or whatever.

[vast geyser]

capacity? how much storage it has

type? either HDD, SSHD or SSD

[pure mica]

M.2 nvme

[spare sedge]

i also want a synopsis of the market.

like with cpus is it a battle like intel and amd?? or is there no competition etc

[vast geyser]

..those r SSD

[pure mica]

Still a other type of ssd

[vast geyser]

..its classified as SSD

there isnt another type of ssd

[pure mica]

Still

[spare sedge]

woopy seems to be correct

[vast geyser]

cache? honestly not too sure but its kinda useless in the modern day

[spare sedge]

i knew m.2 was ssd, but i didnt understand that.

[vast geyser]

form factor? basically 2280, or 3.5", or 2.5"

[spare sedge]

it seems like its a form factor of ssd but i dont understand that either

[pure mica]

Nvme and sata ssd are not the same speed nvme is just faster

[vast geyser]

interface? the pcie version

[vast geyser]

its still ssd

[spare sedge]

i understand m.2 sizing

idk wtf 3.5 or 2.5 is

[vast geyser]

2.5 or 3.5 are for sata ssds or hdds

[spare sedge]

what is form factor tho

[vast geyser]

the size of it

[spare sedge]

like with mb its just the size of the case

how does the size of a storage device matter lmao

they are like so small

[vast geyser]

HDDs are big

[spare sedge]

shouldnt impact case tho

[vast geyser]

uhhh, for example on laptops where you can only fit 2230

[spare sedge]

anything before hdds?

[vast geyser]

on some ig

[vast geyser]

dont think so

HDDs are old as hell

[spare sedge]

when i first started learning about pcs when i was a kid so not really

hdds were king and in a heated debate. "Are ssds better than hdds?"

[vast geyser]

HDDs go back to the 1950s

[spare sedge]

from my research back then. i basically figured ssds were the best type of storage

[vast geyser]

yup

[pure mica]

Mcm (magnetic core memory)

[spare sedge]

but now theres new ones and i dont get what happened

like how did we get m.2s how long ago and where did they come from

[vast geyser]

that seems to be ram

[spare sedge]

wtf is mcm

[vast geyser]

theyre pretty new

[spare sedge]

this isnt a laptop tho lmao

[vast geyser]

im giving examples

of how the form factor matters

[pure mica]

Google lol

[vast geyser]

m.2 was introduced in 2013

[spare sedge]

so nvme used to be faster but is no longer faster than sata??

[vast geyser]

it is

sata is slow

in comparison

alexou

choose your words better

lol

[brave brook]

The fact that it’s before hdds means you don’t need to worry about it

[vast geyser]

its ram

[pure mica]

Lol it not my fault if he don't understand

[vast geyser]

you said use to be faster

if ure gonna be spouting bullshit go to another channel lol

[pure mica]

🙄

It not bullshit

[spare sedge]

lmao why are we talking about ram from the 50s

[brave brook]

Nvme is way faster

[vast geyser]

cause were talking about storage, and youre giving an example of ram

[brave brook]

You asked what storage was before hdds

[vast geyser]

he wanted to be a smartass but was wrong anyway lol

[pure mica]

No shit

[spare sedge]

WE ONLY HAD RAM

LMAO

[vast geyser]

nah

[brave brook]

And you said “used to be”

I feel like it wasn’t used as storage

[vast geyser]

ok maybe

[brave brook]

Well, yeah it was

[pure mica]

Can we focus on modern hardware cause we not building a fricking 50 years old pc

[vast geyser]

??

anyway

[brave brook]

Yes

[vast geyser]

youre the one who brought up 70 year old ram

not us

[pure mica]

She ask what come before hdd

Not me lol

[vast geyser]

and you named ram

but whatever

past is the past

[spare sedge]

so it appears that before hdds yeah, people only used ram cause everything was so small i think

[vast geyser]

any other questions about the storage shit dream

[spare sedge]

tho im p sure they used chat gpt for the answer

[pure mica]

Na i used my mind lol

I dont have chat gpt

[brave brook]

It’s free, but ok

[pure mica]

It free personal information data for it owner ye you right

[vast geyser]

cache in nvme drives doesnt really matter all that much cause theyre very fuckin fast

[spare sedge]

what are optical drives?

[vast geyser]

cd

[open iris]

all im saying is ram is faster than ssds

[vast geyser]

dvd

bluray

[brave brook]

They pull system memory over the pcie bus

[brave brook]

Optical drive is what reads those

[novel pulsar]

holy shit it looks so fuckin coooool

[vast geyser]

mb

[vast geyser]

it might not end up looking like that

[spare sedge]

i heard a couple years ago, people were trying to use ram for their OS

[vast geyser]

as a side note

[brave brook]

All I’m gonna say is, idiots

[novel pulsar]

this color palette reminds me of her

[spare sedge]

i love your profile ❤️

[brave brook]

Any more storage questions?

[spare sedge]

i love kuromi

[open iris]

opinions on this case for your pc btw im a fractal pop shill

[novel pulsar]

based af

[spare sedge]

is optical drive a storage type?

like hdds and ssds?

[spare sedge]

no u

[novel pulsar]

aren't optical drives basically CD, DVD and Blu Ray discs?

[spare sedge]

ooo i love this actually

[brave brook]

Optical discs. The optical drive reads them

[novel pulsar]

ye

ohhh

[vast geyser]

its a big large-ish

[brave brook]

Kinda

[open iris]

its the mini version

[novel pulsar]

it's the

[vast geyser]

there isnt a mini pink version

[brave brook]

Yes, but not for a pc

[open iris]

oh then it isnt

[spare sedge]

what are they for

[vast geyser]

have u never used a cd

[brave brook]

Removable media

[vast geyser]

movies, music

[open iris]

damn why did fractal only give the colours to only the black version and only atx

[brave brook]

😂

[spare sedge]

like a flash drive?

[vast geyser]

nvm the o11 mini might be able to fit a 4090

[brave brook]

@spare sedge

[spare sedge]

i knew there would be options. why i wasnt too worried

[vast geyser]

can you even remove data off a cd?

[brave brook]

Kinda. They’re way slower and smaller. Just generally worse

[spare sedge]

what does an optical drive look like

[brave brook]

Yes

[vast geyser]

huh, why did i think you couldnt

[brave brook]

Google » optical drive » images

[spare sedge]

worse than a flash drive?

[vast geyser]

to install games

[brave brook]

Yes

[vast geyser]

or operating systems

the optical disk era is pretty much over

[brave brook]

Prepare to wait for 30 minutes to install windows 10

[spare sedge]

when was the era

[brave brook]

The 2000s

[spare sedge]

were they better than hdds

[vast geyser]

no

[brave brook]

No

[vast geyser]

again, it was mostly used for music and movies and operating systems

cause theyre easy to ship

[spare sedge]

look guys

[brave brook]

It’s main purpose is removable media

[spare sedge]

they are all used for music and movies lmao

[vast geyser]

yeah but how the fuck do u ship a hard drive

[vast geyser]

or a ssd

with just a movie in it

[spare sedge]

but thats just a flash drive lol

[brave brook]

10 pounds of bubble rap

[pure mica]

20 pounds

[vast geyser]

CD's were easy to ship, compact, did the job

[brave brook]

Yes, but a disc will automatically play any movie on it (if it’s formatted right)

[spare sedge]

with a ssd xx. theyll look cute together

[brave brook]

Have you ever used a cd

[vast geyser]

x3

[spare sedge]

ssd x hdd otp

[pure mica]

Me i did a lot lol

[vast geyser]

no one cares

i mean

[spare sedge]

no they were not LMAO

[brave brook]

Ok, I was asking dream

[vast geyser]

what

[spare sedge]

a flash drive is way better than a cd

[vast geyser]

yeah but they didnt exist back then, did they

[brave brook]

Yes they were lol. Netflix started as a dvd service

[vast geyser]

and yeah, most stuff had a cd player, not a usb port

[brave brook]

@spare sedge have you ever used a cd

[spare sedge]

yeah ik that. doesnt mean cds are better than flash drives

[pure mica]

[brave brook]

I literally said they were worse

[spare sedge]

wait what

[vast geyser]

yeah theyre worse, but back then, CDs were enough

[brave brook]

….

[spare sedge]

so hdds have the cd built in

[vast geyser]

uh

not really

[spare sedge]

and optical had removeable cds

[vast geyser]

huh

[spare sedge]

and then flash drive just made it all digital?

is that right

[brave brook]

Hdds are digital too

And so are cd’s for that matter

[spare sedge]

so why isnt a flash drive better than a hdd if its better than optical?

[vast geyser]

cause its slower

[spare sedge]

ive always heard flash drives are ass

[brave brook]

Less reliable, lower capacities

[vast geyser]

and that

+data corruption

[spare sedge]

is it really slower? i have heard that hdds are slower even when i did research 13 years ago

[brave brook]

For a gaming pc yes. But try putting 22TB of ssd into your pc with 1 drive

[spare sedge]

but i thought ssds were separate

[vast geyser]

wait so why r we talking about flash drives

[spare sedge]

do they have 22tb flash drives

[brave brook]

They are

[vast geyser]

no

[brave brook]

No, I was talking about hdds

[spare sedge]

oh

[brave brook]

You can get 22TB hdds, not 22TB ssds

[spare sedge]

oh

[pure mica]

For now

[vast geyser]

i mean

[brave brook]

(There is a 100tb ssd that’s like $15k)

[pure mica]

[vast geyser]

yea, gl affording a 22tb ssd

[brave brook]

^

[pure mica]

Ikr but in the futur maybe we could

[pearl heath]

Iirc its slower than a HDD

[brave brook]

Nvm it’s like 40k

[spare sedge]

this is just a dvd player lmao

[vast geyser]

yes

an optical drive is a dvd player

[spare sedge]

people used dvd players as storage back then lmao

[brave brook]

Yeah, it’s sata

[novel pulsar]

yes

[novel pulsar]

um yea

CD actually

[spare sedge]

did it play movies or did it just play your storage lmao

[pure mica]

[vast geyser]

,,

did u own a cd

ever

[spare sedge]

yeah

[pure mica]

Not sure

You did

[brave brook]

And what did you do with it

[spare sedge]

this is annoying

can you just answer my questions

[vast geyser]

man

if you owned a CD, you know what it did

[brave brook]

They’re the most basic ass questions, and we’re trying to find out what you do know

[pure mica]

[spare sedge]

ik what a cd is

[vast geyser]

and you used them, right

[brave brook]

Then why are you asking about it

[spare sedge]

idk wtf an optical drive is besides being an external glorified dvd player lmao

[brave brook]

No they’re the same

[vast geyser]

optical drive is just the politically correct name

[spare sedge]

the same as what

[brave brook]

Optical drive is just the “correct way” to call it

[spare sedge]

i mean thats what i said tho

[brave brook]

Some optical drives are cd only, some are dvd capable, and some can read 4K bluerays

[spare sedge]

alr

[brave brook]

Not necessarily external

[spare sedge]

so why does that matter for storage tho

[brave brook]

It doesn’t

But you were asking

[spare sedge]

i looked it up on google

its a storage device like hdd ssd and flash drives

[vast geyser]

yeah

we can move on now

right

[brave brook]

Yeah, but no one stores things on cds and leaves them in their optical drive

[spare sedge]

i guess. but i would like to know.

i know that dvd players were used for dvds lmao

i just wanna know how dvd players were used as an alternative to hdds back then

[brave brook]

They weren’t

[open iris]

they were more of an alternative to usb sticks

[brave brook]

Hdds existed before cds

[open iris]

not hard drives

[brave brook]

When usb wasn’t an option, cds were used

[spare sedge]

so you would put the data on the cd and the cd would carry around with you like a flash drive but worse

[open iris]

floppy -> cds -> usb

[open iris]

yes

[spare sedge]

and then you would plug the cd into your optical drive because obviously you can just plug in the cd into your usb

[open iris]

theres others than that inbetween but thats just the simple progression

yes

[spare sedge]

hm makes sense to me

[open iris]

cds were more based, i liked spinning it on my finger

[spare sedge]

so whats a memory card

[brave brook]

Sd and micro sd cards