♡ i am still building my first pc ever ♡

[spare sedge]

well thats why ive been asking

im actually still confused with the first board i reviewed today

but i dont want to waste time so im skipping it and moving on

[brave brook]

You should get an atx motherboard, Matx is useless imo for a high end pc like this

[spare sedge]

i figured i would do some of the bottom ones cause they looked easy but raid support wasnt easy at first

how about this one

ik we talked about ecc

[brave brook]

And? What do you know about it

[spare sedge]

ik its error correction code and that its something to do with ram

but its on the mb and some mbs have it or they dont

[brave brook]

Yes, it improves data protection for servers and stuff, and amd cpus have unofficial support for unbuffered ecc. For your purposes, it doesn’t matter

So don’t worry about it

[spare sedge]

what does it do exactly. does it make the ram better

[brave brook]

It only matters for file severs and error-sensitive applications

[brave brook]

It keeps bits from being flipped and messing up data. Not for gaming

[spare sedge]

this isnt a gaming pc

[brave brook]

What else are you using it for

[spare sedge]

i thought you were around for that

i keep trying to tell you its not for gaming 😭

[brave brook]

what is it for? The original post in the original thread said gaming was #1

[spare sedge]

i only went the 7950x3d over the 7950x because i feel like i would benefit from the single threaded workloads more than multithread even though i need both

[brave brook]

But what else is it for

[spare sedge]

gaming is #1 but gaming just means almost everything except specific things.

i do game but i havent gamed in like 2 years

[brave brook]

Well, ok, ecc doesn’t matter for normal pcs

And it’ll hurt performance

[spare sedge]

oh ecc hurts performance?

are you able to explain it more

like why does it hurt performance

[brave brook]

A little bit

[spare sedge]

and why is it for ram

what does it do to the ram

[brave brook]

Because it has to check for errors

[spare sedge]

ik ram can have bounceback with data

which can cause the data to have to travel farther

does ecc fix that

[brave brook]

It’s error correcting. I don’t know what specifically it does. If you really want to know, look it up.

[spare sedge]

ik ram uses a coordinate grid

oh if you dont know

thats fine

[brave brook]

Make sure you look up “unbuffered ecc” because that is the only type that will work in consumer motherboards

[spare sedge]

whats unbuffered ecc?

[open iris]

im pretty sure literally only like 3 sticks of ecc memory exist for ddr5

like its actually not worth looking at

[brave brook]

It has an extra chip for error correcting

[spare sedge]

i just need it to be explained. not vaguely alluded to

[brave brook]

Look it up, because no one here cares

[spare sedge]

lmao

[open iris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldhQ0a9-oKs

[spare sedge]

just gatekeeping knowledge

[open iris]

i actually just dont know

cause i dont own a server

id dont need to know

[spare sedge]

lmao

[brave brook]

All we’re gonna do is look it up and relay the information, so it’s better if you look it up

[open iris]

i mean i do own a home server but like im using regular parts

anyway just listen to luke

[brave brook]

I do vaguely know, but i wouldn’t know how to type it out

[spare sedge]

i cant tell if you guys are telling the truth.

[brave brook]

Ddr5 acts a lil differently, because each die is like 2 ddr4 dies

[open iris]

am i the only one who thinks old techquickie is way more informative lmao

[spare sedge]

"what do you want to know" "about ecc" "it dont matter"

[open iris]

im listening to this and instead of jokes hes actually explaining lmao

[spare sedge]

zzzzzz

[open iris]

new techquickle is actually just interrupted by jokes every sentence istg

[spare sedge]

so a big thing about videos is. i cant actually watch them on my laptop. cause my laptop audio is broken

[brave brook]

You have a phone?

[spare sedge]

yeah im not saying its impossible

just a tidbit

[brave brook]

Best way to learn ngl

Better than asking us and trying to make sense of the messages

[open iris]

its not that i dont wanna explain i would legit just be paraphrasing a video though

[spare sedge]

so ecc code prevents you from crashing more.

it checks for corrupted data

[brave brook]

Yes, otherwise known as errors

When we say it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter. That’s part of the reason I didn’t really want to explain it

[spare sedge]

i mean it kind of does matter tho

so ik now the processing slows down performance which makes sense ig

but like how much does it slow down like lmao,, this video is 7 years old.

[open iris]

does it really when these are the only options

[spare sedge]

what are you talking about

[open iris]

those are the only ecc ram sticks for ddr5

you can buy rn

[spare sedge]

i thought ecc was for mb

[open iris]

just if it supports it

[spare sedge]

oh okay

[open iris]

need ram with it as well

[spare sedge]

so if i get a mb with ecc. thats just the ecc support

[open iris]

which they are literally no consumer options for

yes

[spare sedge]

meaning i wont throttle performance unless i plug in an ecc ram

[brave brook]

Here’s a newer video
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pPeCNrNTr3k&pp=ygUHRWNjIGx0dA%3D%3D

[open iris]

yes

[spare sedge]

oh okayy

[open iris]

i dont even think any consumer mbs support it though

[spare sedge]

a lot seem to nowadays

[open iris]

again though pointless without ecc ram

[spare sedge]

so gskill ecc ram is called zeta

cause ik gskill has trident and ripjaws

ripjaws is normal ram

trident is premium ram

[open iris]

they also have aegis which is usually budget

[spare sedge]

so like prettier

ohh okay thats good to know too

[open iris]

and also ugly as fuck

[spare sedge]

yeah

[open iris]

like gskill aegis is an eyesore

they actually hate poor people

[spare sedge]

im going trident

[open iris]

there was no reason to make their budget ram that ugly

[spare sedge]

lmao

[open iris]

like really???????#

[spare sedge]

ohh

thats not as bad as i thought

tacky

[open iris]

youre crazy

i rather have no heatsink on the ram than that ngl

[spare sedge]

but i feel like men would like this

[open iris]

im a man i dont

[spare sedge]

very manly ram stick

[open iris]

though i hate the red black look in general usually so im biased

[spare sedge]

like boomer who plays quake3 all day

[brave brook]

I was expecting green pcp ngl

[spare sedge]

same

[open iris]

nah that rocks

[brave brook]

Lol

[open iris]

ok what about this though

you have to admit thats a warcrime

[spare sedge]

this is kind of worse than the aegis imo

[brave brook]

That’s ugly

[open iris]

this is ddr3 ripjaws

[spare sedge]

boomer ram

[open iris]

ngl all of gskills ram was ugly for ddr3

[brave brook]

Ewww

[spare sedge]

ripjaws is still kind of ugly

[spare sedge]

better than it was tho

[brave brook]

Its way better now

[spare sedge]

okayy the trident looks the best in this one but still goofy as hell

what is this soulcalibur

[open iris]

man what were they even doing with ddr2

[spare sedge]

pi series lmao

i wonder if corsair was ugly back then too

[brave brook]

Like the new dominator, with its sideburns chopped off

[brave brook]

“Back then”

[open iris]

corsair ddr3 was okayish

lmao there ddr2

[brave brook]

:0

[open iris]

i mean corsair has some nice ram i think?

vengenace is ugly though

actually

after looking through google images all their ram is ugly

the only saving grace is the rgb ones cause you look at ram top down anyway

[brave brook]

I think the vengeance lpx is pretty good

[open iris]

silicon power on top though!!! its what i have, literally the cheapest 16gb of ram at the time

[coral holly]

Worst comes to worst u smack a custom heatsink on there

[brave brook]

It is so cheap

[spare sedge]

so raid is like ecc but for drives too

oh wait

but raid doesnt check the data like ecc

raid is just used in case one of your drives dies

which can help protect it ig since they are grouped together

so if you go 8 slots plus its wise to get ecc

so ecc is stored as a 9th chip on the ram

but if it's unbuffered that means the ecc isnt activated unless and until it is plugged into an ecc support mb

can you get prebuffered ecc ram?

[brave brook]

Or 9th and 10th for ddr5

[brave brook]

registered ecc ram is server specific. The notch is different

[brave brook]

Kinda false marketing because they don’t show the other side (that’s bare)

[spare sedge]

ecc ram seems to do worse in cpu bound games like csgo

[brave brook]

Yes

[spare sedge]

but other than that, the performance hit is p minimal

[brave brook]

It adds latency for system ram

[spare sedge]

which probably depends on the stick

[spare sedge]

so its not called prebuffered or buffered ecc ram.

its called registered ecc ram.

and registered ram is the opposite of unbuffered ram

[brave brook]

It’s unbuffered, fully buffered, registered, and load reducing

The LR dimms are for getting more than 32gb per stick

Linus did a video using LR that had 128GB sticks

[spare sedge]

udimms = unbuffered
fbdimms = fully buffered
rdimms = registered
lrdimms = load reducing

wait so ddr5 has ecc built in???

[brave brook]

Not as good, it’s only at the die level

[brave brook]

Yes, exactly

[spare sedge]

but still p good

so fbdimms are the opposite not rdimms

[brave brook]

No, not near as good, I think.

[spare sedge]

of udimms

[brave brook]

Yes

[spare sedge]

how are rdimms and lrdimms different

its strange cause i just feel like theres no room to differentiate here

[brave brook]

Lrdimms have a huge chip (compared to ram dies) on them to “reduce the load” on the cpu. It allows for much higher ram capacities (refer to my last message about Linus and his 128gb lrdimms

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7iwgyzX-76g&pp=ygUPTHR0IGFsbCB0aGUgcmFt

[spare sedge]

so lrdimms just have a giant ecc chip which allows for basically more ecc which helps it reduce the cpu load

what about rdimms

oh i was about to say. 128gb ram isnt that much

[brave brook]

https://www.dasher.com/server-memory-rdimm-vs-lrdimm-and-when-to-use-them/

[brave brook]

For what

[spare sedge]

but then i saw the 2T

[brave brook]

Its a lot for 1 stick

[spare sedge]

lrdimms are bigger capacity and rdimms try to be faster like a regular dimm

fbdimms are ecc always on and can't be used on non ecc mbs

udimms are only ecc if the mb supports ecc, but can they be used on non ecc mbs?

[brave brook]

udimms are the only ecc supported on consumer mothernoards

[spare sedge]

yeah ik

but can udimms be used on non eecc mbs like regular dimms

cause without the ecc support. it wont have the ecc obviously but if it is unbuffered then it wont be active unless the mb has the ecc support

[brave brook]

yeah there wont be ecc on a non ecc motherboard

[spare sedge]

the mb wont have ecc

thats not what im asking

im asking if the udimm can be used as a dimm

and yes we already know there are ecc mbs and non ecc mbs

udimm+ ecc mb = works

what about udimm + non ecc mb = ?

[spare sedge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/4wSbetpgJHo?feature=share

what is this

[brave brook]

Yes, but don’t do that

[spare sedge]

ik but im asking

[brave brook]

At least I assume so

[spare sedge]

i assume so too

im just trying to get an idea of the differences

[spare sedge]

also how does the fan in this work?

so this one

this one has wifi

but what does the 6E mean?

[brave brook]

its wifi 6, which is 6 ghz

[spare sedge]

does the e stand for extreme

[brave brook]

and wifi 6e is 2.4, 5, and 6 all together i think

[brave brook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY-gA_zA_os

[spare sedge]

wdym by 2.4 and 5

[brave brook]

2.4 ghz, 5 ghz and 6 ghz frequency

[spare sedge]

these are the options that pcpp mentions

oh is 6, 6+802.11ad, and 6e all 6ghz?

[brave brook]

i believe so

[spare sedge]

ik from the wifi i have, the whole 2.4 and 5.0 ghz frequency that gives you the 2 wifi ssids

is kind of a newer thing

is 6e the best or is there anything better than 6e?

[open iris]

no

wifi 6e is 6ghz

wifi 6 isnt

[spare sedge]

oh is 6 5ghz

[open iris]

naming schemes amirite

[brave brook]

why the fuck would they do that

almost as bad as usb

[spare sedge]

what about 802.11ad

[brave brook]

so how is wifi 6 different from wifi 5

[spare sedge]

and how is 802.11ad different from 6

[open iris]

faster

[open iris]

uh idk its kinda irrelevant so i never came across it

gotta google that one

[spare sedge]

whats the best one

[brave brook]

https://www.tomsguide.com/face-off/wi-fi-6-vs-wi-fi-6e-whats-the-difference

[open iris]

theres probably other advantages

[brave brook]

probably wifi 6e, but 6ghz cant travel as far as 5ghz or 2.4ghz

[spare sedge]

wdym

[open iris]

wifi 6 is probably the best

cause not everything supports 6e yet

[spare sedge]

is there wifi 7

[brave brook]

the 6ghz frequency waves are shorter, so they are stopped by more things

[open iris]

no

[brave brook]

actually, i think wifi 7 is what transmits over 6ghz, 5ghz, and 2.4

or is that also 6e

[spare sedge]

so you guys dont have a clue

[open iris]

fuck no networking is lame

[brave brook]

you shouldnt be using wifi anyway

[spare sedge]

what are these even called anyway

[open iris]

what are what called

[spare sedge]

6e

6

802.11ad

5

[open iris]

they are just the version of wifi idk if that has a name

[brave brook]

Wdym what are they called

Challenge for you, look them up and see what you find

[spare sedge]

i already fucking did

jfc

[brave brook]

Lol

[spare sedge]

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/80211-versions

Following is a summary of the IEEE 802.11 Wi-Fi standards, from newest to oldest. If devices with different versions communicate, the transmission will be at the highest common speed between them.
so ig it all started with 802.11

[spare sedge]

so its all backwards compatible?

so 6e isnt 6ghz only

its 6ghz, 5ghz and 2.4 ghz

7 is being worked on. 6e is basically the 7 pre release

all of them have .11 names or just 11 names

so wifi 1 is 11b or something

wifi or wifi 0 or the original version is just nothing or just 11 or 802.11

or wifi 1997

wifi 5 was 10 years ago tho

6e is twice as fast as 6 tho

The higher the frequency, the faster the throughput, which means anyone installing Wi-Fi 6E products like the new Nest Wifi Pro will enjoy combined speeds of up to 5.4 Gbps – twice as fast as Wi-Fi 6.

and wifi 7 wants to reach 40gbps but idk how realistic that is

so yeah 6e is better in every way, but no routers have it yet.

but it doesnt matter because anything that the 6e has can also do the 6

no point in upgraded from 6 to 6e tho

but im coming from laptop

so the obvious answer is 6e

6 is never better in any circumstance.

6e is almost 3 years old tho

[haughty quail]

haha im lucky to get 40 Mbps up

[spare sedge]

lmao

i get 100 mbps

[orchid gate]

Uhmm?

You mean ISP modems?

Because ASUS has Wifi 6E routers for sale

[brave brook]

ew modem router combo

[haughty quail]

haha we use our "modem router combo" for guests
we have a dedcated router for us

[spring wraith]

lol too real

we used to use our modem router combo as just a modem but now we do that

[spring wraith]

real

[haughty quail]

haha the old owner strait up gave us our router

and we have fast ass wifi

[brave brook]

DIY opensense though 👌

[haughty quail]

we dont use dat 😅

[spare sedge]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8N3syd8/

i want a pc case screen

this thing looks amazing

[spare sedge]

i didnt mean literally no routers have it.

i dont have a non isp router so i will probably get one of those or maybe not cause of vanlife

i know i will probably need a dedicated hotspot device

or whatever they are called

hopefully one with ethernet if possible

[brave brook]

are you, or are you not doing vanlife

[spare sedge]

i am but not tomorrow

its going to take some time

i have a bunch of stuff i need to sell

[brave brook]

oh ok

[spare sedge]

i need to sell three of my 75 in tvs

and i need to look at the actual van irl cause i have stuff idk if i can part with

maybe that should go into storage

i have a jailbreaked 3ds

that i did myself

but i have a 2nd 3ds that im gonna jailbreak with my first one

my switch

[austere pasture]

What resolution are you at? I have a 4090 and can tell you 90% of the time unless you are running at 3440x1440 or up, it ain't worth it

[spare sedge]

4k rt max settings

im not confused with the 4090, nor the gpu, nor the aib card i selected.

motherboards have me for a whirl

but i think i p much understand pcie slots

and wifi

[brave brook]

lol someone a while ago bought it for 1080p

[spare sedge]

and a couple side features that are kind of software based.

i basically want to stream and eventually play some bigger game titles

[austere pasture]

The 4090 is an amazing 1440p card lol

But yeah no with how you have it set up it looks good

[spare sedge]

thanks

[austere pasture]

I would maybe look into getting a 7800X3D if you're more focused on gaming, but the 7950X3D is very good for a combination of everything

[spare sedge]

im 26 so its my time yknow. if i dont get 4k triple aaa or something now. i never will.

[spare sedge]

im not. im also not confused on cpus or the entire top #20 market

i am confused on anything before 12100 ish

and anything before 1000s gpus

[brave brook]

dont worry about either

[austere pasture]

Wha

[spare sedge]

not confused just not familiar

[austere pasture]

Ah

[spare sedge]

i can take my guesses from the naming conventions but thats about it

i might be ditching the 7950x3d for the 7950x. its a smarter buy and a better cpu overall.

#3 in consumer productivity and #3 in gaming imo

but its ironically about a 60% productivity 40% gaming cpu imo

x3d variant is like a 50 50

only falls behind the 13900k and ks

[austere pasture]

Honestly it doesn't really matter if you're gaming in 4K

You will be gpu bottlenecked

[spare sedge]

i kind of just like my single thread rating. so i dont really want to go too ham into multithreaded workloads without knowing everything im about to get into

[spare sedge]

wdym

[austere pasture]

Cpu runs physics

Gpu renders them

[spare sedge]

yeah but whats bottlenecking exactly

[austere pasture]

If the gou can't render enough frames, then the cpu won't work that hard

[brave brook]

your system being held back by a certain component

[spare sedge]

i knew it was like a limitation or whatever

[austere pasture]

Most games are gou bottle necked especially as the resolution goes up

[spare sedge]

but like

[brave brook]

there will always be a bottleneck, and you want it to be the gpu

[spare sedge]

how can you just know

[austere pasture]

Experience and just looking at the graphs

I have a 12900k for example and that's enough for me, even though I have a 4k card (4090)

[spare sedge]

okay but i need more explaination. tell me exactly what determines which part gets bottlenecks

and also the types of bottlenecks that are possible

[brave brook]

whichever one is the weakest

[spare sedge]

bottlenecks that i should keep an eye out for

[austere pasture]

So the higher the resolution, the more the gpu has to work

[spare sedge]

and also some niche bottlenecks that most people havent heard of

[austere pasture]

You're gonna have a bottleneck regardless of the pc

[brave brook]

mainly just gpu and cpu, sometimes disk, if you have an old ass hard drive

or else it would be infinite performance

[spare sedge]

yeah i get that

[austere pasture]

Essentially what I'm saying is you don't need to worry as much about the cpu, because you're at 4k

[brave brook]

either the 7950x3d or the 7950x is fine

[austere pasture]

A 7950x3d will get you best game preformance, but a small hit in productivity, which if you don't do rendering or a bunch of heavy cpu workloads, you'll be fine.

[spare sedge]

but what does it mean when someone says "gpu bottlenecked". does it mean the gpu is the weakest or does it mean its the one carrying and being held back

[austere pasture]

It means gpu is the weak point

[brave brook]

it means the gpu is at 100%, and the others (mainly the cpu) are not (usually at less than 10% depending on the game)

[austere pasture]

Think of it like a car, the engine can be the weakest point and keep the car from going faster, or maybe the transmission or the axle connecting the transmission to the rear end

[spare sedge]

so the cpu is at less than 10%?

[austere pasture]

Usually

[brave brook]

depending on the game

[austere pasture]

^

And cpu

[spare sedge]

honestly very lost rn

[austere pasture]

Since some are faster

[brave brook]

if its like minecraft or something, without any mods, the cpu will be the bottleneck

[brave brook]

how

[spare sedge]

i dont understand how the 4090 is the weakest part in the pc build

and how the pc's weakest link is the gpu

i dont understand how the cpu is gonna be at 10% performance either

[brave brook]

because 4k is a lot of pixels

[austere pasture]

Okay so the gpu at 4k is pushing a lot of pixels and rendering a lot, that's why

[brave brook]

because the gpu is so much more heavily loaded

and espeically with the x3d cpus, they can push way more frames because of monumental cache size

[austere pasture]

If you dropped the resolution to like 1080p, the gpu would go crazy fast framerate wise and the cpu would be pushed a lot more because it would have to do more calculations per second for the gpu

[brave brook]

the cpu would be the bottleneck

[austere pasture]

[brave brook]

for a 4090 build anyway

[austere pasture]

Yeah

[brave brook]

regardless, the gpu will be the bottleneck in your build, and theres no way around it, nor should there be

the gpu should be the bottleneck because when the cpu is at 100%, you get way more dropped frames

ask me how i know

i think part of the reason there are so many more dropped frames is because if a random program starts something, it steals a core from the game, and that tanks fps

[austere pasture]

Just do what I do and go outside, there's no frame stutters there

[brave brook]

LOL

youre not wrong

your eyes dont have an fps

they just....see

[austere pasture]

Iirc, the physical limit for refresh rate on our eyes is 1200-1300?

Realistically, no more than 600hz

I tried a 500hz monitor at LTX and barely noticed

[brave brook]

probably, but the human reaction speed is so much less, that high refresh rate monitors are not really useful

[brave brook]

and certianly not worth the extra cost, and awful visuals

3440x1440 144 (maybe 240) is the way to go

how tf are we already at 8400 messages

[spare sedge]

whats ltx

[austere pasture]

Linus tech expo

[spare sedge]

theres a ltx 2023 at the bottom

oh cool

[austere pasture]

Ye

[spare sedge]

location?

[austere pasture]

Vancouver canada

[spare sedge]

oo vancouver

isnt that like west coast

[brave brook]

yes

[spare sedge]

im gonna do toronto first

ughhhhhhhh

why isnt usb type c listed on pcpp

are you kidding me

[brave brook]

wdym

type c for what

[spare sedge]

mb

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fFzhP6/gigabyte-b650m-aorus-elite-ax-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-b650m-aorus-elite-ax

[austere pasture]

What are you trying to do?

[spare sedge]

im just irritated that pcpp doesnt list the type c

like why

its such an easy one to include

[orchid gate]

well it is standard on motherboards now

[brave brook]

this is type c

[spare sedge]

why doesnt it just say type c

[orchid gate]

USB 2.0 and 3.1 are USB-A

[spare sedge]

is 2x2 type c?

[orchid gate]

Has to do with speed measurements

[brave brook]

usb 3.2 gen2x2 (usb 20 gbps) is type c only

[austere pasture]

Honestly a USB C on a motherboard makes no sense

It does for a laptop

But man

[orchid gate]

USB-A caps at a slower rate

[brave brook]

lol which usb 3.1? fucking usb names 💀

[austere pasture]

That's just stupid

[spare sedge]

okay so is that the only one that is usb type c?

its just the gen 2x2s that are type c then?

or are there more

[brave brook]

heres usb

[spare sedge]

oof nvm. i think this made it worse

[orchid gate]

First two rows are USB-A

last one is USB-C

[austere pasture]

There it is

[spare sedge]

i already knew the gen names were weird

[orchid gate]

(Correct if wrong)

[austere pasture]

Welcome to our hell

[brave brook]

why the fuck wouldnt they call it "usb 3.0" for 5gb, "usb 3.1" for 10gb, and "usb 3.2" for 20gb. they said its "for clarity". clarity my ass

[brave brook]

yeah, they can all be type c, but only up to 10gb can they be type a

[orchid gate]

Oh wait you’re right

Exit life, enter strife

[brave brook]

i usually remember that "gen 1" is 5gb, "gen 2" is 10gb, and "gen 2x2" is 20gb

thats the easiest way

[orchid gate]

That’s why I stick to Intel laptops hehe

Just look for Thunderbolt and know type c is on one :p

[brave brook]

is it all thunderbolt?

[orchid gate]

(I don’t do this frequently)

[spare sedge]

heres one i found

[orchid gate]

Mostly yes

[brave brook]

that looks a lot more confusing ngl

[spare sedge]

so wait

[orchid gate]

Just no

[spare sedge]

usb isnt the connector?

[orchid gate]

USB Type-B you don’t have to worry about

[brave brook]

yes it is

[brave brook]

LOL no

[spare sedge]

usb is just the signal?

[orchid gate]

No, it stands for Universal Serial Bus, it’s the data transfer standard

[spare sedge]

type a and type c are the connectors?

[brave brook]

yes

[orchid gate]

There’s more

Mini-USB, micro-USB, type-b

[spare sedge]

what are those ;-;

[orchid gate]

BUUUT those have long been mostly phased out

[spare sedge]

anyone got a pic

[brave brook]

also can you believe that hdmi did basically the sme thing? they were basically like "oh yeah you know that hdmi 2.1? well, now its hdmi 2.0". but i think everyone was like "fuck you, no"

[orchid gate]

Second one used to charge power packs and wireless mice

[brave brook]

*cheap ones

[orchid gate]

No literally all of ‘em

[brave brook]

not all of them

[orchid gate]

Whatever

In NZ it is all of them

guess the country

[brave brook]

i have a reletively cheap one that has usb c

[brave brook]

probably

[orchid gate]

Eh my power packs are from 2016 and prior

Plus my Logitech superlight is still micro USB

[spare sedge]

are these right

[brave brook]

usb but explained
https://www.technewstoday.com/usb-3-0-vs-3-1-vs-3-2/

[spare sedge]

so type a is the normal one

[brave brook]

yes

[orchid gate]

Type-B is used for audiophile products if you’re interested

[brave brook]

and printers

[orchid gate]

To connect desktop DACs

[brave brook]

boomers all call it "printer cables"

[spare sedge]

type b looks like the ds charger

[brave brook]

my old teacher always refers to them as printer cables xD

[orchid gate]

Mini USB I have no idea

creeper explain?

[brave brook]

micro b but older

[brave brook]

literally it

also doesnt have a 5gb version

[brave brook]

thats not the same

not even close ngl

[orchid gate]

It’s thinner than USB-B

[spare sedge]

looks like type b to me

[orchid gate]

By at least half

[brave brook]

just watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PctX3kcTj5U

it helped me a ton, when i first watched it

and i use it when people ask what every single usb connector is

[spare sedge]

so is usb-c = type c

and usb-a = type a

[brave brook]

yes

the type of usb is a, c, and b

[spare sedge]

im watching it now

so usb is a bus too just like pcie and dimm

[brave brook]

"usb" universal serial bus

[spare sedge]

yeah so its a bus

pci and pcie are types of buses

[brave brook]

yes

[spare sedge]

i think dimm is a type of bus too

[spare sedge]

yeah but the dimm slot is a bus

not the dimm itself

[brave brook]

the ram to cpu connection is a bus, i dont know the name of it though

[spare sedge]

what exactly are buses then

are they not the slot

[brave brook]

no, theyre the data protocol

[spare sedge]

my friend told me there was a physical bus

so its like a driver

[brave brook]

what?

[spare sedge]

yknow

make sure to update your drivers

[brave brook]

i dont think thats how it is

[spare sedge]

its not actually a driver

but thats what drivers do

[brave brook]

unless the bus has a driver, like usb drivers

[spare sedge]

drivers just communicate but like for software

[brave brook]

a driver is what allowes the technology to talk to the operating system

[spare sedge]

so yeah a bus is like a driver

[brave brook]

yeah, and its not called a bus, and never will be

its called a driver

[brave brook]

not really

[spare sedge]

i never said a driver was a bus lmao

[brave brook]

theyre not comparable

either way

[spare sedge]

the number 1 thing to remember with drivers is that it allows your operating system to communicate with different software on other hardware

bus is the same way

[orchid gate]

Bus allows electricity flowing to serve a purpose

[brave brook]

kind of. i think its partially hardware, and partially software, so i dont think they can be compared

[spare sedge]

yeah a bus is hardware + software

is driver software only?

[brave brook]

more hardware than software though

[brave brook]

yes

[orchid gate]

Stab in the dark, but I’m guessing the gold pins work like binary code? Certain selection transmitting activates a specific function?

[spare sedge]

so driver = data communication

bus = electrical lane communication

[orchid gate]

Kind of like a language interpreter for the driver

I’d say

[brave brook]

yeah, thats a good way of explaainng it

[orchid gate]

Bus is like “I get electricity this is why”

“Do this now”

Bus is motherboard and component comms, drivers is operating system specific

[brave brook]

a bus is also standardized so other pieces of technology outside the computer can communicate with the os

like pcie letting ssds, usb cards, and gpus communicate with the os (with drivers of course)

[spare sedge]

yeah but driver is still communicating with external hardware with data not just electrical power. i understand the purpose is to translate that external software so that it can be used by your pc.

i also know that thats all still technically electrical

but bus i am asking is that basically just like electrical communication

[brave brook]

drivers are the interpretation of the external software/hardware, and a bus is the path for them to communicate

[spare sedge]

so drivers travel through the bus

and work in the same system or

[brave brook]

more like they use the bus

this all make sense now?

[spare sedge]

i think so

i guess the proper names are this

a bus is actually a driver too

called "bus driver"

and drivers are not buses

they are just called "device drivers"

[brave brook]

thats comparing drivers, not bus's and drivers

a bus driver is for things like usb, which is a bus

its saying applications only use device drivers

[spare sedge]

oh okay

[brave brook]

Well, I gtg, gn

[spare sedge]

the bus is the physical architecture inside the slot. the slot connects to a device like a card or a ram stick through different types of buses like pcie or usb.

the bus connects those devices to a device driver. the bus driver is used to control the bus probably by the cpu + mb or maybe just the mb.

the devices uses the device driver to communicate to the cpu or the cpu uses the device driver to control the device.

so the device driver uses the bus driver to talk to the device basically

so i guess it goes
device driver -> bus driver -> bus -> device

[spare sedge]

nini

[spare sedge]

so then a better one would be

application -> device driver -> bus driver -> bus -> device

so the driver and the bus are both apart of the communication process like we said. but there are different types of drivers.

the device driver and bus driver are both drivers NOT buses.

the bus driver is not a bus

im guessing the device driver helps the bus driver interpret the device and the bus driver helps the device driver interpret the bus. since both needs to be translated or something

by the time it reaches the bus, it knows what to do.

then it gets to the device where all of the work has been done for it and the device just needs to be itself and be a device.

applications never talk directly to pcie usb ethernet etc because those are buses and they need to talk to the device driver first

[orchid gate]

Correct

[spare sedge]

wow so in 1996 they first started connecting pcs to peripherals

and then in 97 we got wifi lmao

so micro-a = micro usb type a?

and micro-b = micro usb type b?

mini and micro dont have c. they use ab for some reason

and ss is only in type a and b and mini

i still use micro usb but i guess micro usb has 3 types but even just uses the micro usb type b

[spare sedge]

so type c isnt faster than type a or b

they are just connectors

mini is just a smaller type b and then micro is even smaller

so the blue usb type a connectors ARE better and they have backwards compat with usb 2.0

9 pins total. 5 for 2.0 in the back and 4 for 3.0 in the front

blue just means "superspeed"

OHH

so ss must stand for superspeed

so they usually had to put the extra pins somewhere

and mini a and mini ab and micro a and micro ab were just female only or male only variants

micro is just mini but smaller

non ss variants can be used in their ss variants at the slower 2.0 speed, but obviously the ss variants dont fit in their non ss connectors

so usb3 was renamed to usb3.1 gen 1 and then usb3.2 renamed all of it.

[coral holly]

Kinda unrelated, but somewhat related: at this point just wait for Black Friday weekend to order components. Or set yourself the goal to order them at that weekend. If you go so deep in every component you can definitely keep talking and asking and researching until then and u will save urself a pretty decent amount $$

[spare sedge]

thats smart but thats also november

i guess i have waited my whole life tho

also i heard in october new cpus or gpus?

[coral holly]

I mean, u started like 2 weeks ago and we're maybe half way in this "investigation", november aint that bad then.
And yes, they rush new components to release around BF so they can adjust pricing to clear stock on BF. Its like any sales, comparable with the new collection for clothes coming out for example

[spare sedge]

so usb is simple until 3.0

[coral holly]

So the new new stuff might be expensive or somewhat same price as what their counterparts were, but current gen drops, sometimes heavily

[spare sedge]

im just scared cause ive never been around for a new release

im scared about how fast aibs come out for a 5090

[spare sedge]

im scared of things getting sold out too

yeah so 3.2 has 1x1 1x2 2x1 and 2x2

2x2 is the best tho for sure

OHHH so 3.2 renamed the 3.1 and the 3.0

so now they are ALLLL 3.2

the 3.1 and 3.0 are names they couldnt change because the device is already out and about in the world

so 3.2 1x1 = 3.0 and 3.1 gen 1
3.2 1x2 is just 3.2 1x2.
3.2 2x1 = 3.1 gen 2
and 3.2 2x2 is just 3.2 2x2

i guess they want to copy off pcie

[coral holly]

Its been a wild ride with usb.. They named so many things so wrong so often on websites too. Its been a big mess lol

[spare sedge]

its a better naming convention but fuck.

type c uses all 3.2 speeds but the 3.2 isnt actually the speed either. its just the version which determines the speed.

[grave spade]

Oh god usb

[spare sedge]

mini isnt used anymore because micro is better in every way so micro literally replaced mini

and micro a/ss is male only i think micro ab/ss is female only so they arent used at all

and micro-b ss usb uses 1x1 and 2x1

[coral holly]

Pcie is a very different thing tho lol. USB is closer to HDMI and DP

[spare sedge]

while type a ss and type b ss use 1x1 and 2x1

2x2 is twice the speed as 2x1 and 1x2 tho

and the first number is the gen number

so 1x1 and 1x2 are both gen 1

and 2x1 and 2x2 are both gen 2

and the 2nd number ISSSSS the electrical lanes

so 2x2 is a gen 2 usb3.2 with 2 lane support for communication

[coral holly]

Yea, but thats all old news, nowaday we just us bandwith to know which USB we're talking about

[spare sedge]

the problem tho, is that they all look the same mostly. and there is no blue here with type c.

so its hard to know if its a 1x2 or a 2x2 unless you read the box or something

[coral holly]

I wouldnt look at the colours. Brands can use their own colours. Like Razer uses green on everything

Asus often uses red

Etc

And ports these days have a logo

5gb / 10gb / 20gb / 40gb

[spare sedge]

colors only work for type a and b ss

[coral holly]

Yes

Well.. they dont

[spare sedge]

and micro usb = micro-a usb

[coral holly]

Bc like i said.. brands just use whatever color for whatever port

[spare sedge]

i always just called it micro usb

but thats cause its the only one left

its fine if they recolor it

[coral holly]

Yea and no

Bc shadey firms sold 2.0 as 3.0 bc color lol

[spare sedge]

you can still test them

okay so whats usb type c dp

[coral holly]

Well yes, but good luck returning stuff with that reason 😂

[coral holly]

Display port

[spare sedge]

ik

but like what

[coral holly]

Theres monitors with just a usb c input

[spare sedge]

thats insane

so you can use type c as a dp male now basically

or ig the female type c acts as the female dp too

[coral holly]

And power

[spare sedge]

just throw out dp now

type c is smaller

[coral holly]

Yea, but dp has higher bandwidth lol

So usb can be more convenient in certain cases, but u cant push it as hard

[spare sedge]

usb4 is type c only

[coral holly]

Yea, i havent used usb4 yet

Its pretty new

[spare sedge]

ig usb4 2.0 is aiming for 80gbps

i wonder if its out yet

it was announced in sep 2022

[coral holly]

I think they might skip straight to usb 5

[spare sedge]

usb4 supports pcie, dp and thunderbolt

[coral holly]

Thunderbolt is intel tho

[spare sedge]

oh so type c dp = only dp 1.4

so regular dp is better if its the 2.1

idk anything about thunderbolt except that its apple intel

usb2+ were all the charging cables

usb1 couldnt charge

[coral holly]

USB is always data first, charging second

But yes, in some cases they used it as pure charging

[spare sedge]

1.5A = 1500mA right?

[coral holly]

I'm not claiming that. But yes, dp 2.1 has 80gbps bandwith where usb is at 40gbps at best

[spare sedge]

no im saying type c dp is only dp 1.4

[coral holly]

Yea

[coral holly]

At best probably, yes

[spare sedge]

usb pd is going to be a bigger focus into the future

with pd you can get up to 240w

but im guessing it will get better

all phone sized devices must use type c charging only by 2024 and laptops and mid sized devices can only use type c by 2027

[coral holly]

Whats pd? Port display? 😂

[spare sedge]

power delivery

[coral holly]

Oh yeaaa

Yea, it already is

[coral holly]

Unless they are Apple and they prefer selling their 800% overpriced peripherals and pay the fine for not using usb c lol

EU makes up great laws for users, but can be a big pain for companies lol

[spare sedge]

i hate lightning

but yeah apple isnt happy lmao

[coral holly]

Same with the easily removeable battery for phones law EU recently passed

Companies been trying to make the thinnest phones forever, now this 😂

Good for users tho

[spare sedge]

i think with usb4 they are just gonna get rid of the whole 2x2 stuff

[coral holly]

They'll probably still use the same technology, but they'll just use bandwith as naming. I hope

[spare sedge]

i think apple is just going to get rid of wired chargers lmao

[coral holly]

I dont know. Never had one, probably will never get one either

[spare sedge]

me neither

but im gonna get one now

[coral holly]

I was so frustrated when i had to install their i forgot the name of the program when i just wanted to put music on a friends airpod back in the day

[spare sedge]

why do mbs do this

why not just have 4 usb 2x2???

like cmonnnnn

[coral holly]

It was just a data devixe, but u could only put stuff on it with their own software.. f those closed eco systems with shit peripherals lol

[coral holly]

Bc its very new

And it might be just thunderbolt, im not sure

Thunderbolt = intel

You have AMD

[spare sedge]

yeah i hate closed eco systems

ik intel apple is thunderbolt

but this is an amd board

[coral holly]

Thats what im saying

Thunderbolt is not apple

Its intel certified

U can have thunderbolt on boards for intel cpu

U wobt see thunderbolt on AMD boards.. as far as i know

At least nog thunderbolt certified lol

[spare sedge]

im super annoyed by pcpp and manufacturer websites for their mbs

its like

everything contradicts itself

[orchid gate]

Hopefully survival of the fittest too

So even if the USB 3 lot are still present to ensure new tech doesn’t ruin everything it’s just USB 3 and all those other speeds are sorted into USB 2 or perhaps it’s just a decimal point like 2.5 or 3.5/nonexistent once USB4 rolls out

Best not to have the points but nothing in life is simple, and intuition often cannot translate

[spring wraith]

real shit is such a pain to go through

[spring wraith]

no its on some

the taichi

[coral holly]

very likely not official supported and licensed tho

unless its USB4 already

[spring wraith]

its usb4

[coral holly]

bc i think intel allowed some thunderbolt stuff been throwing into the standard USB4

[spring wraith]

iirc it uses that one maple ridge chipset

[coral holly]

yea, im definitely not up to date on USB4. lol

[spare sedge]

the taichi was my filler mb

usb4 is only type c

[orchid gate]

you have a big use for USB-A/need a lot of that?

[open iris]

Usb4 isn't thunderbolt and a thunderbolt controller can be found be found on amd boards but it isn't common

It's not even common for intel boards

And it's usually just the controller they come with they don't come with a thunderbolt port

Thunderbolt/usb4 is way less common for pc cause it's not really needed

Compared to a laptop

[coral holly]

U right, but I dont think there AMD boards with USB3 or older that are officially Thunderbolt certified. While I do believe since USB4 it is possible for AMD boards to support it officially.

[open iris]

the proart b550 has thunderbolt and not usb4

and actually it has thunderbolt ports on the motherboard itself thats pretty rare

[coral holly]

Yes, would be nice if you could get them to work too tho 😂

[brave brook]

Why wouldn’t they work

[spare sedge]

well im not sure. what can i use type a for?

buildzoid was like oh yeah you want a ton of type a. and im just like for what tho

my laptop has 3 type a ports i think

i use 1 for a fan cause otherwise i couldnt use it

another type a on a speaker cause otherwise i cant hear anything

another type a to charge sometimes my phone or my headphones.

but i also have a work phone which charges normal

my s22 ultra needs like double fast charging or whatever its called

with a pc i wouldnt need the fan or the speaker

so thats -2 type a

sound should come out of the monitor right?

or does it come out of the pc

ig i dont really know how pc audio works

[open iris]

if your monitor has speakers

idk why youd want to subject yourself to that sound quality

[spare sedge]

how are there monitors without sound

that makes no sense to me

[open iris]

because speakers exist

[spare sedge]

i dont understand

[open iris]

on the low end budget reasons on the higher end someone spending 800 on a monitor can probably afford speakers

by budget i mean company saving money

[spare sedge]

im listening

[open iris]

also the quest for some monitors to be thinner makes them omit the speakers

[spare sedge]

okayy ig

[open iris]

there isnt much to that just its cheaper for them not to add speakers

[spare sedge]

but i mean tvs are thin and have speakers lol

[open iris]

different market different consumers

anyway id say more monitors have speakers than dont

either way they sound like garbage get speakers

[pure mica]

Fact lol

Tv or monitor speakers sound always like garbage

[teal pond]

my monitor has speakers and they sound ok but when I take damage in minecraft it sounds like a pop instead of an actual hit

it’s not the game it’s the speaker

also speakers are more immersive

[spare sedge]

ill probably be fine with no speakers.

at first

i dont wanna get big bulky speakers before ever getting the van

okay so

whats exactly onboard ethernet

ik how what an ethernet is

but are there gens are stuff that i should keep note of like with wifi

[vale prairie]

It means you can connect an ethernet cable to it without needing to get a “wired network adapter”

[vale prairie]

Yes, there’s different cats e.g. Cat5E, Cat6, Cat7

Thats a lot of cats 🐈

It goes up to Cat8 which is the best

[spare sedge]

they have wired network adapters??

[vale prairie]

Yes

Check pcpp

[spare sedge]

oh so cat8 is the best and thats just for the cord?

[vale prairie]

If your onboard ethernet sucks you can get a wired network adapter

[vale prairie]

Yes

[spare sedge]

oh so adapters in this case arent bad.

what about the speeds

[vale prairie]

Cat8 is up to 40gbps

[spare sedge]

i got a really good ethernet cord when one of those cats first came out. its like a 60ft nylon braided cat 6 or 7

i got it in like 2015 tho

[vale prairie]

I think cat6 is up to 1000mbps

[spare sedge]

what about the actual onboard stuff. not the cords

[vale prairie]

I’m pretty sure if your onboard ethernet is 1 x 1 Gb/s you can’t get speeds above that

[spare sedge]

this one has 2.5gb tho

so whats the max

[orchid gate]

Keyboard, mouse, external storage, any adapters for USB-C you might need or for other missing ports

rarely you might plug in a USB security key but dif story

[orchid gate]

So it supports up to 2500mbps

wired Ethernet

there are some workstation boards that can do 10Gbps

but most people don’t have an internet plan even half as sufficient to meet that figure

[orchid gate]

Don’t matter

It’s not a 2023 release thing anyway

[spare sedge]

wdym

[spare sedge]

is 10gbps the fastest then

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/motherboard-features-you-dont-need,6077.html

it would seem the speeds at 1gb 2.5gb and 10gb. 10gb is the best but yeah my internet is only 100mbps so thats a tenth the speed of the slowest ethernet

[open iris]

yeah pretty worthless for most humans#

[spare sedge]

im not human tho

this is just 2x1 lol

[open iris]

it is pretty important if youre a usb device fiend and want a usb hub but i doubt thats you

[lavish nexus]

10 gig is useful if you have a nas

That also has 10 gig

Then you can have 1.2 gbps transfer speeds from nas to pc 😎 theoretically ofc

[spare sedge]

what is this in response to

[open iris]

the screenshot you sent

[spare sedge]

the 3.1 gen 2 / 3.2 gen 2x1? i think thats for type a / ss

so yeah ig its probably the best type a spec

[orchid gate]

Nope

NASA has faster

[spare sedge]

best spec for type c should be usb4

[orchid gate]

400Gbps

[spare sedge]

vers 2.0

[spare sedge]

howww i need a source PLSS

[open iris]

thunderbolt 4

soon to be thunderbolt 5

[orchid gate]

ESnet 5

Look it up

new one will be ESnet 6

some cables for that network are running right below your feet, connects all NASA facilities in the US together

idk if they extend to Ohio but I know they extend both USA coasts

I think ESnet 5 is about 200Gbps actually

[orchid gate]

More realistically, enterprises have access to 25-100Gbps

Absolutely useless unless you produce homemade films >2h in length

everyday

and have several work machines

[lavish nexus]

And it’s still thousands of dollars a month

[orchid gate]

That too

[orchid gate]

Likes of Google and Amazon

And Microsoft

Who have servers that host search engines or cloud storage, for instance Bing, Google, Amazon Web Services

[pure mica]

8 motherboard you probably don't need but i still want for the sick of it

[spring wraith]

no, theres just speed ratings

[spring wraith]

thats for ethernet cables

[spring wraith]

no, you can use multiple NICs and ports to get 20gbps and higher

[spring wraith]

but generally, like with wifi, you want an intel network card

[solar cliff]

@spare sedge what ur thoughts on the Linus drama

[viscid plover]

What linus drama?

Didn't hear nothing

Oh nvm I just seen it

Rip

[spare sedge]

i ignored it all. my only opinion of gamer nexus is that he is better than gamer meld and thats just cause the names are so similar

[solar cliff]

What

[spare sedge]

kind of a weird timing since im doing my research. i didnt watch any of the videos cause i kind of dont want it to sour my research

in other words i have no idea whats going on

[spare sedge]

gamer meld was another youtuber i have seen that i had to literally mark as do not recommend because the content was that bad

ltt is better than gamer nexus tho. easy.

i guess, i will probably watch the drama videos after the pc is done

i dont really have much time to do anything else

maybe you can give me the tldr

[solar cliff]

ltt chart wrong they fixy in comments and dont take down video, ltt say $500 not worth it to to retest a stupid cooler. They auction off some prototype without consent

[spare sedge]

sounds like nbd tbh

[brave brook]

ignoring it all is not a good choice tbh

[spring wraith]

doesnt take much to be better than gamer meld lol

[spring wraith]

for what

[spare sedge]

literally

[solar cliff]

Why not

[spring wraith]

if you dont have a moral condemnation personally, it doesnt really matter

[spare sedge]

yeah im older, and pretty objective. pragmatic.

[brave brook]

What?

[spring wraith]

no point caring if you dont have an interest in it and wont take actions based off your moral judgement anyways

[spare sedge]

my social judgement hammer doesnt really care if people are just doing kind of shitty things or being kind of bitchy.

[spring wraith]

the drama is worse than that

[spare sedge]

like idk it doesnt sound like its that bad at all lmao

[spring wraith]

but it doesnt rlly matter to most prob

[brave brook]

It’s important to know what’s happening though

[spring wraith]

their testing shit is horrible

[spare sedge]

like what, $500 here and there oh well

[spring wraith]

like i would never look at their testing and draw a conclusion from it

[spring wraith]

eh it just makes their testing unreliable

[spare sedge]

oh was the testing stuff like a big fraud thing lol

[spring wraith]

not fraud

their testing is just really bad generally

they try automating shit but have no idea how parts perform relative to each other, so they cant make sure the results were within reason

so they got weird outliers

the $500 thing was a diff issue

[spare sedge]

from my perspective, it seems like the best. i already have drawn conclusions based off their videos lmao 😂

[spring wraith]

thats not good

GN is considerably better

their benchmarks are pretty bad

[spare sedge]

i compared it to other ones

[spring wraith]

best isnt on youtube though

[spare sedge]

ltt seemed to line up with other charts i was seeing

[spring wraith]

from where

[brave brook]

Some of them might be fine, but not others

[spring wraith]

^

[brave brook]

That’s the bad thing

[spring wraith]

the problem is its unreliable

some are good, some suck

[spare sedge]

so like my cpu and gpu and ram choices took major insight from ltt among others

[spring wraith]

oh god

look at sites not ltts benches for deciding that stuff

[spare sedge]

but like the cpu is like 50% based off ltt and gpu is like maybe 10-20% based off ltt and ram is like 80% ltt

[spring wraith]

ltt is really stupid when it comes to ram

[spare sedge]

well like i said i compared it to the random ones online

[brave brook]

Any 6000MT/s cl30 kit will probably be fine

[spare sedge]

i did 5600 cl28 based off ltt benchmarks

[spring wraith]

fuck no

that probably loses to 5600 cl46 jedec lol

[spare sedge]

how tho

[spring wraith]

tighter subs

dont buy a 5600 kit that isnt 5600 jedec

[spare sedge]

whats a sub

[spring wraith]

subtimings

cas latency doesnt matter

the cl number

[spare sedge]

what are subtimings

i mean i looked at the timings

[spring wraith]

basically the settings for when ram sends data through it sorta

timings are just different delays