♡ i am still building my first pc ever ♡

[brave brook]

You can get smaller racks, but they’re all bigger than any pc case

Bottom line is, don’t rack mount for van life

[spare sedge]

any of them?

like even atx

[brave brook]

Yes

[spare sedge]

so itx is smaller than rackmount case

[brave brook]

I can almost guarantee

[brave brook]

Yes

[spare sedge]

okii

[spice yacht]

Also rack pcs
are generally very noisy smaller fans required. That's why racks are in closets or in different rooms.

[spare sedge]

if rack mount is bigger with only having the functionality of a atx, then its not worth

[brave brook]

Yes. As I said, putting 10+ “computers” in a rack is smaller, but not 1 computer

[spare sedge]

ohh

i didnt even know you could fit 10 pcs in one rack mount like this

[spice yacht]

More than 10 in some racks

[spare sedge]

this looks like 1

[spice yacht]

Depending on form factor

[brave brook]

That’s pretty much the size of a regular pc case, which isn’t worth rack mounting

[brave brook]

Yeah, that’s why I said 10+. Also, “computers” was referring to servers, windows pcs, and switches

Btw, if you do go itx, a pink case may not be an option, because the color already doesn’t sell as well, and when it’s also itx, it’s even less of a market

Unless you wanna pay $200+

[solar cliff]

You bozo there are smaller racks too

Stop lieing to people

[solar cliff]

Yep :D

[brave brook]

You can’t get a rack small enough for it to be practical for a van. And an itx case is still smaller so just stop talking

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about

[solar cliff]

Or you could. Also you clearly dont know what you're talking about if thats your argument.

[spare sedge]

$200 is nothing

[solar cliff]

$200 is nothing, for someone who isnt gonna build it ever

[brave brook]

Find me a rack that is smaller than the nr200

[solar cliff]

Why dont you find it? Thatll also fit 4090 etc. etc.

Hf!

Talk to me after you find

[brave brook]

You’re the one saying it’s better, prove it

[solar cliff]

You're the one 1 doesnt exist. Prove it.

[brave brook]

You know what, just leave

You’re not helping anymore

[solar cliff]

Byeee the door is righ tthere

[brave brook]

So leave

[solar cliff]

Aint helping anyone, with you tryna make people leave

@oblique pumice didnt mmean this sorry

Bruh wtf

can i not ping mod?

[solar cliff]

<@&750150305383186585>

[brave brook]

Seriously? You’re calling mod on me?

[solar cliff]

Yeah

[brave brook]

Wow

[modest valve]

@solar cliff why don’t you find a rack if you’re suggesting it? Surely you know what you’re talking about right?

[brave brook]

thats what i told him

[solar cliff]

He's the one thats suggesting one doesnt exist. So he can find one?

[brave brook]

but he doesnt want to look because he knows it doesnt exist

[modest valve]

he’s so childish lmao we’re all just trying to help the person in this thread not start fights

[brave brook]

this man says "do a rack mount because its smaller".
its not smaller than an itx build, like one in the nr200, and never ever will be

[solar cliff]

Yeah literally. Thats what ive been saying.

creeperboy is so childish

[modest valve]

I’m talking about you

[solar cliff]

About creeper?

[brave brook]

talking about you @solar cliff shut up

[solar cliff]

<@&750150305383186585>

[brave brook]

what are you expecting to accomplish?

[brave brook]

youre the one saying a server rack is smaller than an itx build, so you better find that fucking rack real quick

[solar cliff]

You can find it?

[brave brook]

youre so sure of there being one, so i want you to find it. or else, just shut up and leave, because you dont know what youre talking about

[solar cliff]

<@&750150305383186585>

being harrassed

[dapper crescent]

Define itx build and define server rack

[brave brook]

my definition is something equivelant to an nr200

[dapper crescent]

Define a server rack .

[brave brook]

i want him to find a server rack thats smaller than an nr200

[brave brook]

a rack for holding rack mounted servers i guess

that lets it "slide in and out"

[brave brook]

there isnt one i will guarentee it

[spare sedge]

i could mount this to my van

[brave brook]

the dimensions of an itx case will be smaller, because everything is able to be close together. with a rack case, you need the gpu on a big long riser

[brave brook]

how much do you actually know about servers and rack mounting

[solar cliff]

Enough to have some in my room

[brave brook]

what kind of server

and what thickness is it?

[dapper crescent]

Techically a 1u rack is a server rack

[spare sedge]

so asus rog strix is a mb too?

[solar cliff]

Thickness? 2 4us

[brave brook]

the nr200 may not actually fit a 4090
i believe this will though
https://www.newegg.com/black-jonsbo-mesh-screen-mtx-case-micro-atx/p/2AM-006A-000B8

[brave brook]

thats a lot bigger than an itx case

[solar cliff]

did i say i have an itx case?

i have a big enough room

for big racks

<@&750150305383186585> being harrassed still.

[brave brook]

my point is, you dont have any experience with small rack servers

[solar cliff]

Do you even own a computer?

[supple narwhal]

what

[brave brook]

fuck yes

[solar cliff]

is it an itx?

[dapper crescent]

Ehhh I wouldn't personally consider this harrassment (not a mod tho)
Also don't ping the mods multiple times

[solar cliff]

He keeps telling me stfu, and, telling me to leave etc.

[supple narwhal]

stop poinging mods if you cant win an argument or a discussion

[dapper crescent]

Hi momo

[brave brook]

no, but my brother made an itx case that is much smaller than any rack mounted case

[supple narwhal]

ignore him, ping with whats bothering you and we will deal with it when we get to it

[solar cliff]

Is that you? Not you.

[solar cliff]

Okayy tyy!

[brave brook]

first hand experience that you dont have

[solar cliff]

You dont either

[dapper crescent]

So knowing this thread for the next 8 weeks

I'm just here for popcorn 🍿

[solar cliff]

:D

[brave brook]

i literally said my brother has an itx build

[supple narwhal]

thats it

[dapper crescent]

This is the OTHER THREAD

[solar cliff]

? Are you mad at me or him?

[supple narwhal]

Im not mad at either of you, just drop the discussion, you guys cant seem to get to common ground and its not productive for the thread lol

[solar cliff]

Meh fair enough. However, knowing CreeperBoy this discussion is never ending

[supple narwhal]

hey

[dapper crescent]

So that means both.

[supple narwhal]

i didnt say you could bad mouth them,

[brave brook]

i just want him to find a server rack that is smaller than an nr200

[solar cliff]

Aw. :(

[supple narwhal]

say sorry

shake hands at end it

[solar cliff]

Im sorry Creeperboy, that I almost won the argument 🤝

[supple narwhal]

....

[solar cliff]

I said sorry

[brave brook]

are you kidding me?

[dapper crescent]

https://tenor.com/bkoVZ.gif

[solar cliff]

Nop

[brave brook]

🤝

[dapper crescent]

A 1-3u server rack

All have a lower volume then the nr200

[brave brook]

im thinking of the dimensions though. a wide flat server is harder to store than a small box

[dapper crescent]

I mean if you put it on its side

[brave brook]

well, thats true

but as langley said, servers usually have loud whiney fans

[dapper crescent]

Make a 1u radiator

[brave brook]

i really would not recommend a water cooled system, especially this type, for a first time builder

but thats me

one other thing, either of these solutions would not fit the liquid x 4090

[dapper crescent]

Custom loop.

[brave brook]

^

[dapper crescent]

For the funnies

[brave brook]

um

[orchid gate]

Good thing I missed your little tirade

[orchid gate]

Whole “franchise” practically

They have laptops termed that (ASUS ROG Strix Scar 15/17 or G15/17), GPUs, motherboards

now they replaced the 17” with a chonk 18”

iirc 15 is also 16” too

[orchid gate]

If you want an ITX case that looks like a rack mount (but it’s just laid down sideways) check out the fractal ridge

Very compact and I hear some plan to build it for attending gaming LANs like DreamHack (Google this)

Fractal ridge size comparison

.

Just wait a sec you wanna build in a rack?

[orchid gate]

Oh yay you’re alive

[spare sedge]

yeah its honestly not a bad idea. i could mount it to my van somewhere. it would offer easier access to hardware and might not be a problem when driving. its also for sure flatter. so it actually is p compact, and with some rgb it could be really cute.

but i am also considering itx because it is smaller, and idk if i need all the features of an atx, but like i might want them all and go fully featured with an atx and just live with it cause the vans are bigger than you think. i am up for the challenge of building because after its built, it's fine. itll be a hassle when you have to troubleshoot hardware and go back in one day, but that's also fine because that's a hassle anyway even with an atx.

[spare sedge]

this honestly looks amazing

definitely up my alley

[orchid gate]

Not mine :p just saying

Wanna see how the parts fit?

[spare sedge]

my only thing is, idk if im willing to compromise on a 4090 or 7950x3d for the case or the ram

[orchid gate]

Tight squeeze if you ask me

[spare sedge]

but i am willing to compromise on the aib

[orchid gate]

Woohoo

[spare sedge]

if i have to drop down a couple aib choices in terms of size thats fine

[orchid gate]

Oh it’s not a rack btw

[spare sedge]

this is honestly insane

[orchid gate]

Just has options for laying sideways

With the foot underneath the fat flat side

Flat like this

[spare sedge]

if its a matter of screwing in parts and putting the cords where you guys tell me to

[orchid gate]

In other words console but not a console

[spare sedge]

then it should be possible for me to do this

[orchid gate]

Right… we got more parts to cover first

[spare sedge]

yeah

[orchid gate]

Ah, if you still plan on a 4090 a DIY solution for cable management may be needed

Depends on its size

But no no to the liquid X here

[spare sedge]

theres this too

but its out of stock

[orchid gate]

Hmm

[spare sedge]

in this case that would be mostly fine

[orchid gate]

You could compensate with RGB lighting to be pink 🙂

[spare sedge]

how does that work exactly

[orchid gate]

(Connect to an ARGB header, addressable means “ok computer do this”)

Need some software for it

[spare sedge]

this is a good option too

[orchid gate]

Once the other guys wake from their slumber they probably will advise

[spare sedge]

so just a adjustable rgb

[orchid gate]

I’m doing some script memorising atm for drama class

[spare sedge]

are there any other types of rgb

[orchid gate]

Yes, but more hues than RGB alone which is only red green blue

Uhh not really

You have other colour gamuts however

[spare sedge]

oh wow i remember doing that in high school. too bad im too far gone and instantly thought of ai.

[spare sedge]

how is rgb literally red green blue

[orchid gate]

This won’t apply to case lighting

[orchid gate]

Well all I know is you combine those colours to get that of your computer display

[modest valve]

What ab the thermals? I mean it’s a 4090 with a 7950x3d

[orchid gate]

with printing it’s the opposite, CMYK - they delete each other to get more basic shades

[orchid gate]

Idk leave a side w/o the panel?

I was hinting at that :p

[spare sedge]

i thought rgb was like cosmetic detailed lighting. not the computer display

[orchid gate]

And remember for the GPU you can have fans facing outward to the side

Mounting it that way

[modest valve]

That might bring in a lot of dust

But could be manageable ig

[spare sedge]

there might be longer cases

[orchid gate]

I did say DIY might be needed :p

[orchid gate]

Cooler master already is bigger

maybe go with their white NR200P?

[modest valve]

If airflow is not efficient then the gpu might suck in its own hot air

[orchid gate]

Or look into the NR200P Max range

even bigga

[spare sedge]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xkVmP6/asus-rog-strix-x670e-i-gaming-wifi-mini-itx-am5-motherboard-rog-strix-x670e-i-gaming-wifi

i was thinking about this

[orchid gate]

With mini-ITX motherboards you lose out on 2 ram slots and an ssd slot

So only 2 are available for the former

[spare sedge]

im p sure you lose more than that but

[orchid gate]

Makes adding more capacity a little less convenient

[spare sedge]

i could care less about 2 ram slots and 1 ssd

[orchid gate]

Not much space in ITX cases for HDDs as well

[spare sedge]

especially when im yelled at about using 4 slots

[orchid gate]

Believe there also is less ports on the side

[spare sedge]

and especially when i plan on using m.2 which is much more compact anyway

[orchid gate]

2 SSD I think

[orchid gate]

And about 2-3x the price but ig for you it’s nothing

[modest valve]

@spare sedge how much storage do you need

[orchid gate]

Less fragile which is good

[spare sedge]

i mean with m.2 the sky is the limit right

[orchid gate]

^^

[orchid gate]

Nope

That’s HDDs

Though their capacities are getting larger

[spare sedge]

didnt i see like 22 T

[orchid gate]

Select vendors can do 8TB on a single drive

[orchid gate]

HDDs I’m sure

[spare sedge]

i can't imagine needing more than that one day

[orchid gate]

Not SSDs

[orchid gate]

Another issue with big drives is if that drive fails it could be your life’s worth of data gone

[modest valve]

Yeah

[orchid gate]

so just a psychological fear hence why most ppl keep SSDs and onboard storage small

[spare sedge]

ive also been developing a free cloud storage loophole thing

[orchid gate]

they use external storage otherwise

[spare sedge]

unless that already exists

[modest valve]

Don’t get an hdd especially if ur budget is this high

[orchid gate]

You see this in music production, the engineer puts files on an external RAID array

which itself is also backed up

[orchid gate]

You mean NAS? Network attached storage

[spare sedge]

no

but a nas might be a better solution

[orchid gate]

Mhm

[spare sedge]

i remember the nas a bit

i just dont know what it looks like

[orchid gate]

I’d say to make the most of ITXs limits grab like a 2TB drive or 4TB

if you want

Usually i don’t rec >2TB

Expensive NAS here, 8 hard drives

What you searching rn @spare sedge

[spare sedge]

heres what ik on form factors

[orchid gate]

Ignore the stuff below mini ITX for this build

Otherwise you’re making a server PC

Oh wait ik the ROG VIII Formula is E-ATX

Occasionally there’s a couple high end boards that are a bit larger than normal to flaunt 5 SSD slots or such

Hmm so you’re saving up some extra research for future upgrades or self assistance I take it

Or helping those close to you

[spare sedge]

narrowing by am5 leaves us with 6 itx boards, about 63 matx boards, 8 eatx boards, and 54 atx boards

[spare sedge]

no ik

[orchid gate]

So are you set on going mini-ITX?

[spare sedge]

not set on it

10 of those boards have 192 ram limit

[orchid gate]

probably check for the NR200P Max regardless, see if there’s a pink variant in stock

[spare sedge]

but that requires atx or matx

[orchid gate]

Wut

No any case fits any motherboard within its limit

[modest valve]

And u still only want an x670/e mobo?

[orchid gate]

So an ATX case can fit ITX motherboard

Just looks silly

NR200P is for mini itx to MATX

[spare sedge]

the vast majority of boards are 128 gb ram limit.

except for some of the shitty matx boards which are 96 gb ram limit

[orchid gate]

won’t need more than it for the coming decade I’m sure

[spare sedge]

all the itx boards are 64 gb ram limit except for one that has 96 gb ram limit

[spare sedge]

i was, but then someone bitched and said that x670/e wasnt the best chipset. so now i have to re look into it

because the research i did on chipsets wasnt enough

[orchid gate]

X670 is the top of the line chipset

I believe that extra letter gave you a specific model of motherboard

[spare sedge]

what do the letters at the end do

like whats the e

[orchid gate]

ASUS naming scheme

[spare sedge]

hm

[orchid gate]

Like z690-a, z690-e, x570-F

[spare sedge]

if i can narrow by chipset, we have even less options

are there more boards that dont show on pcpp?

[orchid gate]

Sometimes like B660-M or z690-I it is useful in telling you the form factor (MATX or ITX)

[spare sedge]

ik z is intel

[orchid gate]

Yes

[spare sedge]

and ik b is mid range

[orchid gate]

H can be low end or high mid range

[spare sedge]

and anything below b isnt worth talking about

[orchid gate]

H610 or H670

[spare sedge]

yeah h

[orchid gate]

But irrelevant mb

[spare sedge]

no its fine

[orchid gate]

AMD midrange is funni

Similar to Intel

B650 vs B760 (AMD first)

[spare sedge]

lmao

[orchid gate]

65, 76 😵

and I can’t blind type numbers well

[spare sedge]

its okay. its dark

[orchid gate]

:p

So off the top of my head. Z790/H770/B760/H710 would be this gen’s Intel chipsets

Note that Intel is backwards compatible (6— boards work with 13th and 12th gen Intel processors)

AMD hell no

AMD this time round - x570/B650… anything else?

[modest valve]

X670E is the same but has some more features like more pcie lanes and m.2s I’m p sure, and there’s some other small/ obscure features

[spare sedge]

so intel's 600 boards work with 13th and 12th gen

[orchid gate]

Correct

But 13th Gen requires a BIOS update sometimes to work

[spare sedge]

did you mean x670

[orchid gate]

So a slight hassle

[orchid gate]

Yes

[spare sedge]

okii

[orchid gate]

Fatal error 🤦‍♂️

[spare sedge]

no its fine

yeah that's all ive seen from amd

[orchid gate]

also if you ever find half your savings disappeared 13th Gen can run DDR4 memory too

Unlike new AMD forcing DDR5

[spare sedge]

but afaik, chipset just determines probable features. it doesnt determine anything besides a way for them to market to you

[orchid gate]

but the motherboards themselves are either/or not both

[spare sedge]

like form factor determines size

[orchid gate]

Yes

that’s right

[spare sedge]

form factor determines features for sure because of how it has to fit on the board

[orchid gate]

Mhm

So we’re optimising filters now?

[spare sedge]

but i dont understand "expansion slots" atx is supposed to have 7 expansion slots so where tf do they all go? this proart board that i was looking at has like 2 or fucking 3. like wtf

[orchid gate]

Expansion slots… I wonder if that’s an umbrella term commonly abused

[spare sedge]

this one

[orchid gate]

could mean x16 slots which can run stuff like 10G networking cards

[spare sedge]

expansion slots is supposed to be all the pcie slots

but i only fucking see 3

[orchid gate]

How can one fit 7

Nani

[spare sedge]

7 is the min for atx apparently

itx is 1

[orchid gate]

HUH

[spare sedge]

dtx is 2 which is why people were saying dtx is better than itx

because it was an insane opportunity trade off

and by dtx i mean mdtx

[orchid gate]

As a fun fact only PCs have expansion slots

Laptops and smaller don’t :p

Why ever choose DTX

[open iris]

They can have 7 they don't have to also that proart has 6

4 pcie 2 m.2

[orchid gate]

Was about to ask if m.2 slots counted

As expansion slot is an umbrella term, just anything that connects to the PC by attaching to the motherboard

through PCIe in this case

[modest valve]

supports up to 7 max for any board with that chipset

[spare sedge]

well ig i wasnt thinking about laptops

[spare sedge]

so each m.2 counts as 1 expansion slot??

i thought it was only pcie

thats still only 5 right?

[orchid gate]

#1139391773253316608 message lookie here

Any slot that’s PCIe and for connecting things to the motherboard is called an expansion slot

[spare sedge]

that doesnt help

i already knew pcie were expansion slots

[orchid gate]

Includes M.2 too

[spare sedge]

anything else?

[orchid gate]

Not really

[spare sedge]

thats still only 5 slots on that proart afaik

[orchid gate]

Yes but ^^

[spare sedge]

yes but ^^

[orchid gate]

They can have 7

Not has to have 7

I’ll scour the general market and report deviances across mobo models tmrw

see if it’s significant (at least +- 3)

[spare sedge]

im talking about the 6

i only see 5

2 m.2 and 3 pcie x 16

[orchid gate]

Did you count the one right below the CPU socket

It looks like the VRMs

It’s not

[spare sedge]

i also found out that the yellow IS a x16

[orchid gate]

He miscounted

[spare sedge]

that's a m.2 under a heatsink right?

[orchid gate]

Above yes

so I’m wrong as well

It is 5

[spare sedge]

oh okay

[orchid gate]

No wait six

There’s that tiny one as well in red

[spare sedge]

does that count?

on the website it just says this

you can wall mount your case??

[open iris]

Red is one

[spare sedge]

what is red?

and why does it count?

[open iris]

Pcie x1

[spare sedge]

so x1, x4 and ,x8 all count as expansion slots

[open iris]

Yes

[spare sedge]

i thought it was only x16

[open iris]

No

Anything that can connect something through pcie counts

[spare sedge]

okay, anything else or just all pcie and all m.2

[open iris]

Just those 2 yeah

[spare sedge]

yeah but m.2 counts and thats not pcie.

okayy

[spare sedge]

but on pcpp, it also doesnt explain this or show that it has pcie x1 at all

[open iris]

It allows for pcie connection

[spare sedge]

and it says that it has 4 m.2

[spare sedge]

what does

[open iris]

Probably showing you a slightly different board

[open iris]

m.2

[spare sedge]

okay but 3x pcie x16 and 4x m.2 = 7 expansion slots

[open iris]

Yeah

[spare sedge]

so if that x1 counts. thats 8

[open iris]

That's not that image though could be at the board you're looking at

Can you just send the link of where it's saying the other information

[spare sedge]

but there is only 2 pro art boards

x670 and b

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/mR2WGX/asus-proart-x670e-creator-wifi-atx-am5-motherboard-proart-x670e-creator-wifi

[open iris]

Yeha that's a different motherboard to the picture

Notice the expanded heat sink for the m.2 and loss of the x1 slot

[spare sedge]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/J8WzK8/asus-proart-b650-creator-atx-am5-motherboard-proart-b650-creator

it was the b board

thats 4 pcie then

but thats still 4 m.2 slots

4 pcie doesnt = 7
4 m.2 doesnt = 7
4 pcie + 4 m.2 doesnt = 7

also, then why doesnt sata or usb count?

or ram or thunderbolt

or ethernet

[open iris]

That's just pc part picker bekng pc part picker if you go to the spec sheet on the site it's 3 m.2s

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/proart/proart-b650-creator/

[orchid gate]

Kassy, are you seriously going to fill every one of the M.2s or PCIe slots?

Or is all this just for the sake of clarity and consistency/fighting misinformation

[spare sedge]

clarity obviously.

[orchid gate]

Alr

[spare sedge]

im not even getting this board

[orchid gate]

Obv enough

Do you have one in mind yet or should I do that research tmrw and tell ya

[open iris]

Also for why sata, usb, ram, ethernet don't connect through pcie

[spare sedge]

actually it is still 4

the 1 on the top and the 2 at the bottom. the way its listed looks like 5, but its really just 3 with each type listed. below the quantity.

however, RIGHT HERE it says there is another m.2 called ekey which IS listed on pcpp

the other 3 are called Mkey

also this only explains what is circled in pink which is nice because i didnt even know that was a thing

the pink is a m.2 ekey slot

[open iris]

Well i guess it just has 8

[spare sedge]

idk what the blue is. but it looks exactly like the m.2 ekey flipped over

[spare sedge]

okay but then why can they only fit 1 m.2 under that heatsink on the top whereas they can fit 2 on the bottom one. how can they put two of the same thing under one heatsink

[open iris]

That's just m key

[spare sedge]

ik the first 3 are mkey

[orchid gate]

Consult the manufacturer 😉

[spare sedge]

that wont help me

[orchid gate]

M.2 is above the heatsink

[spare sedge]

its also sunday bffr

[orchid gate]

That’s a x16 below it

M.2 has a screw on its right. Look carefully

[spare sedge]

i was told it was under wdym above

[orchid gate]

Here

[spare sedge]

what???

[open iris]

No it's below it

[orchid gate]

Oh wait mb

[spare sedge]

lmao

[orchid gate]

Yes, the heatsink is over the M.2

Layered on top

[open iris]

Also i was saying that blue is the m key

[spare sedge]

all the boards look different. its okay

[spare sedge]

im on board with taht

[orchid gate]

Completely invisible to the untrained eye in other words

[spare sedge]

ohh.

well isnt mkey just m.2

[open iris]

I actually just think they labelled this like shit ngl

[spare sedge]

or are they not the same

[open iris]

Cause that bottom heat sink probably only has 1 m.2

And that's the 3rd one

[orchid gate]

Yk what lemme grab another board to examine

One sec

[spare sedge]

ohhh

but wait, if they ekey lays to the right, does it not cover the mkey? and if it doesnt lay to the right, it should lay to the left but wouldnt that still cover the x1?

[orchid gate]

Identify this; most of the lower half is hidden under their respective heatsink

[spare sedge]

lmao

maybe after this one

[open iris]

It's to the left and no

[orchid gate]

Actually I eat my own words, I can see 3 x16 PCIe slots

uncovered

[open iris]

E key devices arw smaller

[orchid gate]

Sorry ik my image is a bit blurry

Seems sharp enough though when zoomed in on mobile

[spare sedge]

wait no this is wrong

wait not its right kind of

i think

the key doesnt represent size

its the numbers

but the keys represent he teeth

[open iris]

Yeah i know

[spare sedge]

but also certain keys only use certain sizes

[open iris]

But ekey devices are still smaller

[orchid gate]

So they are smaller

[spare sedge]

so it doesnt cover the x1

i wonder why there isnt 22110 e keys

unless there is

or even 2242

or 2260

[open iris]

The only time an ekey device is like bigger is when it's being used as a adapater to mkey

That's kinda cheating though i guess

[spare sedge]

so the numbers are the sizes?

[open iris]

Yeah

Oh yeah fun fact since m.2 has pcie connectivity it's one of the ways you can just connect a gpu to a laptop pretty easily

With one of these

[orchid gate]

M.2 2280 is extremely common for PC SSDs

[orchid gate]

I believe most people prefer to use Thunderbolt 3/4 for an eGPU

[spare sedge]

1 x M.2 PCIe 5.0 slot with heatsink

∙ 1 x 2280 (PCIe 5.0 x 4)

2 x M.2 PCIe 4.0 slots with heatsink

∙ 1 x 22110 (PCIe 4.0 x 4)

∙ 1 x 22110 (PCIe 4.0 x 4)

[open iris]

No that's way better yes

[spare sedge]

so then why is m.2 listed as pcie in parantheses

[open iris]

But not all laptops have thunderbolt

[spare sedge]

what is egpu?

[orchid gate]

I saw some arcane process to crack open an old laptop and stick a GPU to it

[open iris]

Only intel laptops have them even

Amd can only use gpu enclosures now thanks to usb4

Which most egpu enclosures don't properly support yet

[orchid gate]

You buy a box for a desktop GPU, it has a slot you stick it in, then you plug a certified Thunderbolt USB-C cable into your laptop connected to the box with the GPU inside

And viola desktop grade graphics

[spare sedge]

im so lost

[open iris]

It's not relevant for you anyway don't worry about it

[spare sedge]

that doesnt help me tho

[orchid gate]

Ok so, an eGPU is a normal GPU you put in a box designated for it

[spare sedge]

so like an external gpu.

[orchid gate]

Which has a connector for USB-C, which then is connected to a laptop

Yes that’s what it stands for

[spare sedge]

like an external storage hub

but for like graphics

[orchid gate]

Same tech

Yes

[spare sedge]

that's what the e stands for?

[orchid gate]

But uhh Thunderbolt is necessary

[spare sedge]

ohh

[orchid gate]

Which is exclusive to Intel laptops

Basically ultra speed USB

[spare sedge]

what use case does an egpu have

[orchid gate]

with DisplayPort alt mode as well I think

[orchid gate]

On the go video editor who works for marquee brownlee I’d say

And he’s demoing an 8K camera

[open iris]

Say you need a stronger gpu in your laptop

[spare sedge]

what's marquee brownlee

[open iris]

Or a gpu at all

That's the use case

[spare sedge]

so egpus cant work on a desktop

[orchid gate]

Tech YouTuber who does a lot of tech reviews

[orchid gate]

They can as well

Been used before for iMacs

Or apples monitor-like PCs

[spare sedge]

in that case, an egpu might be an option for me.

[open iris]

They can but it makes no sense to do that

[orchid gate]

NONONONO

[spare sedge]

if it can't fit in my case

why not

[orchid gate]

welp ok maybe

But then you’d need to hunt for a motherboard with Thunderbolt

And some companies have shit support for that

[spare sedge]

like if i go itx, i can mount an egpu somewhere

[open iris]

Well you'd just use a riser if you wanted that solution you wouldn't go the thunderbolt route probably

[orchid gate]

Been a few issues on and off with the Thunderbolt ports on motherboards

[spare sedge]

i just set the egpu on top of the case

[orchid gate]

Don’t have to

Just set it on a small desk

[spare sedge]

i still dont know what thunderbolt is exactly

everytime i see it in a sentence i just go blank

[orchid gate]

The enclosure is this big fyi

[spare sedge]

all i know is that it is not lightning

[orchid gate]

Lightning speed usb port

[spare sedge]

that's not so bad

[open iris]

At that point just get a slightly bigger case though

[spare sedge]

what does this even mean lmao

[orchid gate]

Alr imma peace out now

[spare sedge]

kachow he said

[orchid gate]

Help her out mage

[spare sedge]

alr ni ni

[open iris]

It's just usb that can interact with pcie

[spare sedge]

oof still really weird

[open iris]

Has better bandwidth than usb and was mainly made as a way to connect more devices to laptops

It was made by apple and intel which is why amd laptops get cucked

[spare sedge]

i knew the apple intel thing. and thats weird af too

[open iris]

And you don't really see it on pcs cause you have pcie slots

So it's not really as useful there

[spare sedge]

my mb research says its all the rave with mbs right now

especially amd mbs

[spare sedge]

so its just not a thing on amd laptops tho?

[open iris]

Yeah even on amd motherboards they have to use an intel chip

[spare sedge]

so the intel chip is inside the thunderbolt thing

[open iris]

The thunderbolt controller on a motherboard yeah

[open iris]

No which used to be a big deal

But usb4 closed the gap between thunderbolt

So it doesn't matter that much anymore

Thunderbolt 4 is still slightly better though and thunderbolt 5 will be a lot better

[spare sedge]

no as in yes its not a thing and it used to be a big deal as in amd really wanted it on their laptops back then but dont care anymore

and thats cause usb4 is better than thunderbolt now?

[open iris]

It was just a big selling point for a laptop to have

[spare sedge]

oh tb is better still

so all these things

have gens too

so like

tb 4 and tb 5 are gens like pcie 4 and pcie 5

[open iris]

It's still better but like 90% of these users won't actually notice the difference

Sure

[spare sedge]

sure as in yes or not really

[open iris]

Usb naming schemes are something else though

Yeah

Thunderbolt and pcie keep the names simple at least

[spare sedge]

cause if they arent called gens. i dont want to call them gens

i like learning about pcie

not so much thunderbolt. its annoying cause idk what it looks like or what its for

pcie is so widely used for everything

it seems

[open iris]

"usb 3" has like 4 different versions with dumbass names instead of them just going up numbers

[spare sedge]

and the gens are just 5x16 or 4x16 its fun

the terminology was annoying af tho

[open iris]

Thunderbolt really shouldn't matter to you anyway i imagine

[spare sedge]

that doesnt help me tho

[open iris]

If you want just in case it does just pick a motherboard with a thunderbolt controller

[spare sedge]

so are the numbers after usb like 3 and 4 gens as well?

and then the gens get split into inter generation names like skylake or some stupid bs

[open iris]

Yeah

well in usb case

usb 1.0
usb 2.0
usb 3.1 gen 1
usb 3.1 gen 2
usb 3.2 gen 1
usb 3.2 gen 2
usb 4

[spare sedge]

yeah that is weird

so they have 2 gens?

the first is like the version i guess

[open iris]

oh wait theres also usb 3.2 gen 2x2

[spare sedge]

and then the 2nd is like a midway gen

so at the end of the day tho, the newest one is gonna be better

[open iris]

yeah

[spare sedge]

so right now we are on usb 4

[open iris]

yes

[spare sedge]

or usb 5 just came out

[open iris]

dont have usb 5

[spare sedge]

oh okay good

what do they usually improve and work on when upgrading the gen

what do the gens enhance in other words

[open iris]

usually transfer speeds

[spare sedge]

hm okayy

who makes usb??

[open iris]

bunch of companies

apple, intel, hp, few others idk the names of

[spare sedge]

also this

so yeah it has to be mkey

[spare sedge]

oh so no one invented usb they all just make them

[open iris]

someone at intel invented it

but now all these companies decide the standards

[spare sedge]

so it originated from intel

but now all those companies basically update it together

[open iris]

yeah

its one of those things where its better for everyone that way

[spare sedge]

so is thunderbolt a usb?

[open iris]

no

they function almost the same

and thunderbolt 3 and 4 do use a usb type c connector

but they arent the same

same way how thunderbolt 1 and 2 used a mini displayport connector

and did have the functions of minidisplayport but wasnt it

[spare sedge]

wait so it looks like type c

[open iris]

yeah

[spare sedge]

oh god

wtf

it just gets worse

[spare sedge]

nononono youre fucking kidding

lmao

[open iris]

[spare sedge]

dp to usb type c

[open iris]

thunderbolt 🤝 leeching off other connectors

[spare sedge]

lmao

im gonna sleep on thunderbolt a little longer

so whats up with this

all gen 4. p standard

the 4x1 was right

but the the 4x16 at the bottom is actually a 4x4 or??

and the 4x16 in the middle is also a 4x8?

and the 4x16 at the top is still a 4x16 (thank god) but its also a 4x8 but for some reason the middle and the bottom cant fit a x8 or an x16 or a x4 on the right side like the top equivalent?

i thought they were all just 4x16 easy done.

[spare sedge]

the 3 that is

[open iris]

yeah no usually only the first slot is full powered

which is why you always put your gpu in the first slot

the reason the other slots usually dont need those lanes

like msot the time it would just be like a sound card, network card shit like that

youre not going to need the full bandwidth

[spare sedge]

i didnt know rhis

[spare sedge]

wdym the full bandwidth

so are they x16 or no

[open iris]

they arent

[spare sedge]

does x16 have more bandwidth

[open iris]

they can just physically fit x16 cards

[open iris]

yes

[spare sedge]

then why are they x16 size

[open iris]

so they can fit x16 cards

like i said not every card can use the bandwidth anyway

[spare sedge]

if they can fit x16 doesnt that make them x16?

[open iris]

even gpus today dont even ultilize the bandwidth of 16 pcie 4.0 lanes

no

ok think of it this way

[spare sedge]

i see three x16 slots. an x1 slot and 4 m.2 slots

[open iris]

there are physical lanes and electrical lanes

physically they are x16

electrically they arent

[spare sedge]

i thought lanes were just the flat wires on the board

the circuitry

[spare sedge]

oh i didnt know derbaur is just an extreme ocer

WAIT WHAT

micro center only has 25 locations???

and are only in the US

wow i guess i got lucky

im literally close to 2 of them

[open iris]

yeah

i wish tehy were world wide

[spare sedge]

thats crazy

[open iris]

and now they get the 5600x3d

can only get that cpu from microcentre

[spare sedge]

just learned this

the first 2 numbers is width only

the last numbers are length

all measured in mm

[spare sedge]

ik they have the 7950x3d

in a bundle deal too

[open iris]

yeah but thats everywhere

i meant that amd only released 5600x3d with microcentre

[modest valve]

I literally told u this ages ago but ok

[open iris]

like you literally cant buy it anywhere else

[spare sedge]

oh wow mc exclusive content lmao

[spare sedge]

i either forgot. or it got lost in chat

did i respond?

[spare sedge]

so there are physical and electrical lanes and the electrical are more just energy not physically there

[open iris]

yeah you can sum it up like that

[spare sedge]

so why does that matter tho

[open iris]

wdym

[spare sedge]

i dont think you ever finished youre point

you just sort of said lanes are physical and electrical

[open iris]

is there more to add it answers the question why they arent all x16

[spare sedge]

does it

im still lost on that. i was just waiting this whole time

but i just learned this too

also lpx and btx

interesting

[open iris]

Physically the slots are x16 so you can fit in cards that size. Electrically they don't have 16 lanes because it's unnecessary for basically any secondary card you'd use so they give the other slots less electrical lanes to save on cost and stuff

[spare sedge]

but it says x16 on their website and on pcpp

and that all 3 pcie are x16

[open iris]

Physically

[spare sedge]

so are you saying i can't plug in a x16 card into the 2nd pcie slot because it is not electrically x16

[open iris]

You can plug it in

[spare sedge]

physically

but not electrically

[open iris]

It just won't have the bandwidth of electricity x16

It'll work

[spare sedge]

how

[open iris]

Just with lower bandwidth

[spare sedge]

when you say bandwidth should i think electrical lanes

[open iris]

Yes

[spare sedge]

lol ok

so then how does it power the x16 if its not x16 electrically

like how is x4 enough ig

[open iris]

Because lanes have nothing to do with how much power is supplied to a card

[spare sedge]

oh okay then what do they have to do with

[open iris]

Bandwidth

[spare sedge]

which is not power but is instead

just data transfer?

[open iris]

Yes

Every pcie slot can supply 75 watts and if more is needed you need power from your power supply

[spare sedge]

yep but thats power delivery

so my thing with the 3 pcie x 16 slots on this mb is

why not just be electrically x16 too

why is the 2nd one only electrically x8

[vast geyser]

uhh

[spare sedge]

and why is the 3rd one only electrically x4

[vast geyser]

prob not enough bandwidth

[spare sedge]

yeah but why

[vast geyser]

what

the chipset doesnt have enough

[spare sedge]

wdym

why not just make the 2nd slot x8 then and the 3rd slot x4

[vast geyser]

isnt that what they did

[spare sedge]

no

its three x16

[vast geyser]

x16/x8
x8
x1
x4

[spare sedge]

yeah

[vast geyser]

yeah

wheres the issue

[open iris]

yeah

[spare sedge]

it's three x16 and the 2nd and the 3rd are not electrically x16

whats the point

like why not just be a physical x8 at that point

and why not just be a physical x4

[vast geyser]

the designers thought it would be better that way

[open iris]

So you can still fit in cards of x16 size

Cause like i said just because they are that size doesn't mean they need the full bandwidth

[spare sedge]

why would you want to do that if you dont get enough bandwidth

[vast geyser]

ah wait i might have not realized what youre talking about

[open iris]

Again barely anything actually uses all the bandwidth in the first place

[spare sedge]

and then to call it a x16

thats fucked up

[open iris]

So you're just giving yourself less options for cards if you reduce their size

[vast geyser]

how is it fucked up to call an x16 slot x16

ill just shut up

ignore me

[spare sedge]

cause they arent x16

electrically

false advertising

[vast geyser]

😭

[spare sedge]

and then theres this

[vast geyser]

huh

[spare sedge]

pcie is what i initially thought was expansion slots

and atx is supposed to have 7

[vast geyser]

where did you get that from lol

[spare sedge]

so even though there is 4 slots

maybe it was meant that there is 7 electrical slots

[open iris]

No

[spare sedge]

and then like

why not label the right side

[open iris]

Also they don't have to have 7 that's not like a rule

[spare sedge]

and ALSO that would make the first pcie slot like an x24 all together

[vast geyser]

no

it wouldnt

youre missreading

it can be either x16
or x8

not both

[vast geyser]

you can make it x8 if you put another gpu beneath for rendering purposes

so you have more powahhhh

[open iris]

Or sli moment

[spare sedge]

then why can't the 2nd or the 3rd be x16 or x8 but not both??

[vast geyser]

theres no point in giving more bandwidth to those slots though

[open iris]

Also no cpu can handle that many lanes

[vast geyser]

+that yeah

[spare sedge]

do you mean lanes as the physical ones or the electrical ones

[open iris]

Consumer ones anyway

[vast geyser]

epyc ❤️

[open iris]

Electrical

[spare sedge]

its not the cpu tho. its the pcie

[open iris]

No cpus actually have a cap on how many lanes it can handle

12900k is like 20

Threadripper pro is like 100+ kinda based

[spare sedge]

yeah but im talking about pcie

not the cpu

[open iris]

I know

And im saying it's pointless for both to be x16 cause your cpu couldn't do it

And the fact you aren't going to put it 2 cards that both need that much bandwidth realistically

[vast geyser]

huh..

[spare sedge]

because cards only need a small amount

of bandwidth?

[vast geyser]

i mean they need the most out of any component

[spare sedge]

im guessing x8/x8 is shorthand for dual x8?

[vast geyser]

yes

[spare sedge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/syu5tp/all_300_motherboard_feature_set_and_general_use/?rdt=55294

whats the difference between an expansion slot and a bus?

[vast geyser]

anyway that list doesnt have what you need

[pearl heath]

The bus is the electrical connection
The expansion slot is the physical connection

[vast geyser]

hi random

[pearl heath]

ATX is sized to support 7 but doesn't need to have 7 slots

[pearl heath]

The RTX 4060 is electrically PCIe x8 but physically x16

CPUs on consumer platforms don't have that many PCIe lanes available

[brave brook]

Ryzen 3000 has 16 lanes (gen 4), ryzen 5000 has 20 lanes (gen 4), and ryzen 7000 has 24 (gen 5)

Threadripper has 64 (gen 4). Threadripper pro has 128 (gen 4)

[haughty quail]

That's how my old Rx 460 is wired

I use that to test things

I would

Not use it for your use case*

[spare sedge]

https://youtu.be/Vqk2Bv-820M

in this video they mention putting the ram in slot 2 and 4

[vast geyser]

yes

correct

thats where you put the ram

[spare sedge]

BECAUSE you want it as far as possible from the cpu

from the heat

[haughty quail]

So that you don't get bounce back especially if you're running higher speed ram

[vast geyser]

no

thats not the reaosn

its to get dual channel

[spare sedge]

yep thats the reason

[vast geyser]

thats not the reason

lmfao

[spare sedge]

no its dual channel regardless lmao

[haughty quail]

That could be a reason to do that but the furthest lot from the CPU is the end of the lane for the ram slots if you put it in the closer ones you could get bounce back from the empty slots and cause it to be less stable at higher speed

Learned that the hard way running 3600 mega transfer per second ddr4

[spare sedge]

https://www.cgdirector.com/2-vs-4-ram-modules/

[vast geyser]

A1 "1"and B1 "3" are normally reserved for Single Channel of the same type

A2 "2" and B2 "4" are typically reserved for Dual Channel of the same type

Current boards don't really seem to give a * where you put dual channel but single channel still is preferred on A1 and B1.If you need to know more its time to start reading on the difference between Single and Dual Channel.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1349-ram-how-dual-channel-works-vs-single-channel?showall=1

[haughty quail]

What are the things you're going to be doing with this computer?

[spare sedge]

i knew about bounce back, but i didnt think that happened from that reason

i thought bounce back was caused from other things

[spare sedge]

a lot why

[haughty quail]

Do you plan to do video editing, gaming, game development, lots of research

What particular tasks are you going to throw at the thing

[spare sedge]

i already read up on ram

[pearl heath]

Slots A2 and B2 are the last slots in the daisy chain of the motherboard, meaning they can reach the highest speeds

Using slots A1 and B1 on a daisy chain topology motherboard limits your maximum RAM speed quite drastically

[haughty quail]

That would explain why I kept blue screening when trying to run 3600 on ddr4

Considering you're running ddr5 at much much higher speed I would go with the slots that random is recommending

[spare sedge]

its a1a2b1b2 not a1b1a2b2

[vast geyser]

a1a2b1b2 is how the slots are numbered

a2b2 is the recommended memory configs

as seen here

[pearl heath]

Usually vendors have a table within the manual to tell you what slots to use for what memory configurations

But when in doubt, A2 B2

[vast geyser]

manual <3

[haughty quail]

DO NOT SKIP ON RTFM

(read the f****** manual)

[vast geyser]

for real

[spare sedge]

i literally just posted this

[pearl heath]

Yes, he's cropped out the part that you should pay attention to

[spare sedge]

lmao

thats like the whole picture

[vast geyser]

how does amd do 4 sticks with the new agesa updates btw

[haughty quail]

Just had a heart attack because my laptop wasn't giving me audio output but it was muted we're good

[spare sedge]

why do you think i posted it lmao

i already told you guys its a2 b2

[vast geyser]

true, but its not heat that is the deciding factor

[haughty quail]

That's why ram has heat sinks on it now

I feel like I misspelled heatsink

[spare sedge]

its not dual channel either lmao

https://www.cgdirector.com/2-vs-4-ram-modules/

[vast geyser]

surely this website gives better insight than the manufacturers of the motherboard

[spare sedge]

what?

[vast geyser]

which portion of the article shows the memory configs

[haughty quail]

I'm just going quad channel so that I don't have to worry about it
and I think 64 is going to be enough especially with my workload
if I go 128 I'm going to build a new computer 😭

[open iris]

thats a new one

[haughty quail]

Y'all need to chill like I know this is a high-end ass PC but calm down!

I'm not going "high-end" but I am going quite overkill for my application
13700k and 3080 with 64gigs 16x4 and LOTS of storage around 6tb combined

I'm also leaving myself some wiggle room to upgrade the 3080 would be great to upgrade to a 4090 but I don't need that kind of power nor do I have the budget

Right now I'm taking my time and trying to have as much fun with it as I can.
This is the first time I've worked with high-end hardware so I'm nervous and would be frustrated as hell with myself if it didn't work.

But again I'm trying to look on bright side

This form as well as tech Haven has been my best friend as well as googling things that I don't know

[vast geyser]

what

[haughty quail]

Listen to each other and talk through your problems

Tldr

[spare sedge]

im gonna just take a break from motherboards

i guess cpu cooler is next

alright so how do you choose a cpu cooler

whats the best cpu cooler

[vast geyser]

aio or aircooler

[vast geyser]

checking benchmarks tbh

[pearl heath]

Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240 is the default choice for a good AIO

Thermalright Peerless Assassin is the default choice for a good air cooler

Which would you pick?

Well, which do you like the looks of lol

[vast geyser]

check cooler
huh this looks nice
see if its not absolute dog crap
buy

[open iris]

i think shes going for the aio gpu why so air makes more sense

shoving 2 aios in 1 case sounds fun

[vast geyser]

custom loop basically

[open iris]

also you have to decide what case you want before the cooler

[vast geyser]

(please buy an aircooled gpu)

[open iris]

cause that changes the answer

[vast geyser]

true

[open iris]

if you actually want an itx case it changes your options

[spare sedge]

is it fun?

[open iris]

no it just sounds dumb

idek if anyones actually done that

[vast geyser]

can i say rq
the black gpu tubes would look trash in a pink and white, so consider the air cooled version instead

[vast geyser]

ofc someone has

[open iris]

sounds extremely dumb unless your case it pretty big

[brave brook]

Yes

[pure mica]

Do we have a list of part yet on pc part picker?

[brave brook]

Many people have put lists on, but dream is still figuring out ram, and motherboard. Case and psu haven’t even started yet

[pure mica]

OOF

[brave brook]

This isn’t as much “give me the best pc list” as it is “I want to learn all about them”

[vast geyser]

psus gonna be a pain

[brave brook]

Yeah…

Psu tier list, and a few patience pills

[orchid gate]

Any updates for me?

I take it we’re past mobo now

[brave brook]

idk

shes debating itx

[spare sedge]

for mb i need to take a break

[orchid gate]

Guessed

[brave brook]

can you just decide if you want itx or atx?

[spare sedge]

its too stressful. i spent all night last night trying to learn or pick one. but i could pick one at all

[orchid gate]

like you said form factor greatly affects part choice

So just decide.

[spare sedge]

i cant cause idk what i lose out on with itx

[orchid gate]

It’s like learning maths or English

[spare sedge]

ik general features but idk what all of them are for

[orchid gate]

They can be used together and also are complex on their own

[spare sedge]

and idk what itx loses

i also dont know what chipset really does.

i want to choose x670e and narrow all the boards

[orchid gate]

Are you concerned there’s some hidden heavy pitfall bc of a form factor change

[brave brook]

i already told you. it adds pcie lanes

[spare sedge]

but what if a really good b board is better than a shitty x670e board

[orchid gate]

Allows you to overclock CPU, and arrange storage as a RAID array

[orchid gate]

Z790/X670 tier

[brave brook]

if youre getting itx, i dont think x670 is worth it

[brave brook]

no it doesnt

only on intel actually

[spare sedge]

i watched a video and saw that this h board beat a gigabyte b board