I am building my first PC ever

[misty imp]

I will mention the 1% betters on difrent cpus gona talk like it's a big deal

[proper dove]

I was gonna say the cpus been decided on but…

[misty imp]

It's gimmicky dude

Better = gimmicky

Why are u trying to sabtouge this

[proper dove]

💀

[misty imp]

Mf we gota start over

[proper dove]

https://tenor.com/view/take-me-lucifer-lucifer-galia-take-me-gif-21333886

[night jasper]

Fr

[light trout]

Ok ok it’s fine let’s not pressure her

[misty imp]

There's nothing wrong with any of the pc part picker lists

Buy one of those

Tada

[proper dove]

This ones the best

[misty imp]

Bruuh what why is that one the best now

Re do it

This happened 5 times

[light trout]

But the bottom line is that for amd you don’t need more than 6000 mhz cl30 because a) its the best combo and b) anything higher will make your build unstable. If you want proof, look at benchmarks - they will tell you the same thing. If you want to learn WHY, then you can research it on your own free time.

[misty imp]

Yes yes I agree

All that

[proper dove]

5600 CL28 or 6000 CL30

Only 2 good options

[misty imp]

My dead mobo standing on my desk thinks the same

2000 mhz support

[light trout]

Yes this works too, not much of a difference between the two. At that point it boils down to what aesthetics you prefer

[rose pollen]

if I remember correctly, she wants white with pink lights

[lone saffron]

at first she said aesthetic matters then she changed her mind and it dont matter anymore :))))))))))))))))))))

god this has been the most back and forth thread going into nothingness i ever read

she still is on the memory scientific descipher rn

like she is not over with that 😄

i guess this is what happens when you build your first pc ever, you want to know as much as possible but then you read so much, you get so confused over something you shouldn't, that it becomes an endless struggle that gains u nothing in the end

[loud iris]

idek if this pc is gonna be built ngl

It'll end up with: What cable ties should I get

the LTT ones have too much design on them

[lone saffron]

Honestly maybe in the next 1-2 years

[loud iris]

but they might not hold up

[lone saffron]

LMAO

[loud iris]

oh but they might noot be as performant

Its just cable ties pick one

STOP rushing me

or else ill have to restart

[lone saffron]

xDDDDDDDDDDDD

i wasnt like this when i first built mine

in fact it wasnt even complicated

i got the most ideal high range at the times i didnt even start questioning why or what choices i should make

it was always clear in my head

[loud iris]

When i built my first one it was look at how much money I have, look at what ima do with it, find the best way to get it if prebuilt were on sale, or, if custom built would be cheap

and boom buy

[lone saffron]

Pokey ik this isnt the thread but allow me to show u something in dm if u dont mind so u can tell me what u think

[loud iris]

sure

dm away

[vale mulch]

i actually am looking into asus strix. it seems promising along with the musim x

im off at 10pm. ill be able to get into it more

but one of the big things is just what timings are

i want to know what "tight timings" means so i can watch some of these videos properly.

and ive seen 3 numbers but ive also seen 4 number timings i thought

and idk what each number means?

[lone saffron]

xD i think ur going to deep into ram specifications

u dont need scientific desciphering and tbf 95% of ppl dont know what that means and it honestly dont matter

I think if you want that deep of an explanation there's always the option of checking with Chat GPT

no one will provide u a more clear answer and precise than AI does

[turbid elm]

Except when it’s confidently, and spectacularly wrong

[lone saffron]

Usually for technologies it should not be wrong because it takes info from all over the internet to provide u with a good answer, but if u ask for philosophies or human thinking thats when it can go horribly wrong

but whats nice is that u can double verify the info ur getting

wrong or not u can find out pretty easily

the important is that u get an idea of what u want to search for

[turbid elm]

I’m not really sure either, but some ram from crucial or g.skill will have great performance.

And, as far as I know, Corsair

[lone saffron]

I recommend most of all before choosing your ram, checking with your motherboard manufacturer once u have chosen ur mobo to know which RAM has been tested or not

if it's QVL or not

[turbid elm]

G.skill’s trident series is almost certainly compatible, just saying

Tight timings mean the 2nd 3rd and 4th numbers in this list are relatively small. The 1st number is the one advertised (e.g. cl28, cl30, cl36, etc)

Here’s chat gpt answering. I don’t think it would help much, but here ya go

[austere shale]

The parts about latency speed and compatibility

I think you’re overcomplictaing it too much

It’s much simpler than it seems

It’s legit as simple as choosing:
•DDR5
•2x32gb
•5600mhz-6000mhz
•CL36 or lower
•make sure you’re not spending a ridiculous amount on a kit
•then you can pick what you like the look of what’s left

Even if you change one of these parameters such as speed or latency you’re maximum losing up to 5 frames which won’t be noticed

[turbid elm]

cl 36 or lower, preferably cl30

[austere shale]

This is the best configuration you can currently get with DDR5

Without breaking the bank for one extra frame

[turbid elm]

g.skill cl30 6000 will be about the best bang for the buck you can get, imo.

[austere shale]

G skill are probably the best

[turbid elm]

yeah they pretty much make the cheapest ddr5

[austere shale]

And it’s not garbage

[turbid elm]

they make cl28 5600 too

[austere shale]

I think the ideal speed for DDR5 on am5 is 5600

[turbid elm]

yeah, probably

6000 is touch and go on am5

[austere shale]

https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/p/memory/cmk64gx5m2b6000z30/vengeance-64gb-2x32gb-ddr5-dram-6000mt-s-cl30-amd-expo-memory-kit-cmk64gx5m2b6000z30

And Corsair make kits that are specifically for am5

This is most likely the best you’ll get for Ryzen

[turbid elm]

heres cl28 5600
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb/p/N82E16820374425

and the subtimings are also tight

and thats also amd expo ready

[turbid elm]

thats out of stock too

[austere shale]

L

She’s not buying right now anyway

[turbid elm]

what?

you sent that link lol

[austere shale]

It’s an L for Corsair

[turbid elm]

Oh

Lol

Yeah

[austere shale]

1 lost sale

[turbid elm]

I think Lower cas latency is better than higher speed

[austere shale]

Nah it’s speed

If you look at the speed latency charts

[turbid elm]

Kinda, but only to a point

[austere shale]

Sure yeah

[turbid elm]

Like 5600 is a lot better than 4800

[austere shale]

But I don’t think we’ll reach that point with amd

[turbid elm]

Yeah amd does benefit from fast memory

Cl30 6000 seems to be the best option

Here’s 1
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374351?Item=N82E16820374351&Source=socialshare&cm_mmc=snc-social-_-sr-_-20-374-351-_-08062023

[vale mulch]

it seems like a good option

[turbid elm]

And you can get it without rgb if you don’t want rgb

[vale mulch]

im so ready to pick ram tonight

[turbid elm]

This one lol

Wait no that’s cl36

[vale mulch]

what's the 288 pin mean?

never seen that before

[turbid elm]

This one
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374377?Item=N82E16820374377&Source=socialshare&cm_mmc=snc-social-_-sr-_-20-374-377-_-08062023

[austere shale]

It’s just telling you it’s a dimm and not sodimm

[turbid elm]

Desktop Ram has 288 pins on it

[austere shale]

Dimms have more pins than sodimm

[vale mulch]

so basically the little cartridge thing at the bottom where it plugs in

those are called pins?

they arent even really pins

[austere shale]

The gold parts

[turbid elm]

Well, the pins are on the motherboard

[vale mulch]

its like a nintendo 64 cartridge

oh

[turbid elm]

Do you want rgb on your memory?

[vale mulch]

so the slot has 288 and is only compat with 288 pin ram

and all dimm ram is 288 pin ram

[austere shale]

Yes

[vale mulch]

okay easy enough then

[austere shale]

It’s all standardised

[turbid elm]

The difference in price is like $5, so it doesn’t really matter

[vale mulch]

oh yeah a big question about ram i had was this

with all the other parts so far

it was like a battle between companies

whats going on with ram

who makes the ddr5

from the brand names alone they all look like individual manufacturers

[turbid elm]

A lot of companies but other dimms and put their branding snd heat spreaders on. the two major companies that I know of are micron (a parent company of crucial) and g.skill

[vale mulch]

so are they like aib partners?

[austere shale]

^

[turbid elm]

Yeah pretty much

[vale mulch]

ohh okay.

so underneath it all, is it still just another pcb

[austere shale]

But the specs of the ram are controlled by the original manufacturer

[vale mulch]

so just like nvidia with gpus

[austere shale]

Often you can find different companies using the same stick of ram

[turbid elm]

So from this ss, micron, Samsung, and Hynix are actual chip manufacturers

Forgot Samsung lol

[austere shale]

Like asus and MSI can use sk hynix

[turbid elm]

Corsair uses micron I think

[austere shale]

And actually MSI don’t make ram so ignore that

[austere shale]

I think so too

[vale mulch]

ohh okay so a completely different set of faces kind of and a different market entirely thats not as relateable to cpu or gpu market

[turbid elm]

Yeah

[vale mulch]

ik samsung lol

[turbid elm]

With ram you can easily buy bare pcbs, and put your own branding on it (e.g. corasir)

[turbid elm]

Kingston may also make ram chips, but I’m not sure

[austere shale]

I think Corsair now have the dominator titaniums

Allows you to customise the heatspreader

3d print your own designs

[turbid elm]

What’s great about this thread is dream is not the only one learning. I’ve actually learned quite a bit from other peoples’ explanations, and my own research.

[austere shale]

I learned what dimm stands for

[turbid elm]

Was “ddr” explained here?

[austere shale]

Yeah

[turbid elm]

I was guessing that

Lol

Anyway, which component is next? (assuming ram has been sufficiently explained)

[austere shale]

I think finishing motherboard would make sense

Then cooling

[turbid elm]

Yeah, I think that was the next part on the “list”

[austere shale]

And the rest can be any order as they aren’t really interdependent

[turbid elm]

The one I have in mind is this one
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B6Q23SPC?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1#immersive-view_1691344794118

[austere shale]

Yeah this was recommended a few times

[turbid elm]

Lots of m.2 and usb. Pcie expansion doesn’t really matter because the 4090 covers up basically the entire board, except the bottom pcie slot

[austere shale]

She doesn’t need any more pcie expansion anyway

[turbid elm]

Yeah probably

[vale mulch]

i thought gpus only cover the pcie slot that it plugs into and the 2nd pcie slot below

so i was thinking 1 gpu would take away 2 slots from the 7 on an atx

[austere shale]

It depends on the motherboard layout

[vale mulch]

oh cause maybe the pcie slots are really close together

[austere shale]

But generally the bottom 16x slot is not covered as it’s at the bottom

[vale mulch]

also my friend at work was talking to me about BUS

what is that tho.

[austere shale]

Is that for gpus?

[turbid elm]

Yeah but the cooler is like 4.5 slots on the rog strix 4090

[vale mulch]

he said it was the pcie and pci and like the different types of those or something

[austere shale]

Right

Yeah you don’t have to know that

[turbid elm]

PCI is irrelevant

[vale mulch]

ik pci is gone now

[austere shale]

Everything is made to allow for proper data transfer

Rip pci

[turbid elm]

lol

[vale mulch]

what was before pci. just curious

[turbid elm]

Oh ummmm idk, that’s so long ago

[vale mulch]

and so pcie and pci are just bus types

[turbid elm]

It was created in 92

[turbid elm]

Yep, peripheral component interconnect (pci), and pci express

[vale mulch]

i never said it mattered

[austere shale]

I think this was when pcs weren’t really customisable and you just bought a singular unit like a Macintosh or IBM

[vale mulch]

i was curious about the low cl

[turbid elm]

Well gpus and such had it

(PCI)

[austere shale]

Technically the first gpu was made in 1999

I think

Maybe 98

[warm compass]

Either one is fine, cheapest ig

[vale mulch]

i also hate that stupid chatgpt. someone recommended it to me. and its literally worse than google. idk why people love it here.

[turbid elm]

Cl30 6000 is better, as apparently, cas latency doesn’t matter as much for ddr5

[turbid elm]

Lol

[warm compass]

Both are still hynix M die

So

[turbid elm]

What?

[warm compass]

The Physical RAM die is still a hynix M die, and a M or A Die from them is the best choice for DDR5

[turbid elm]

Interesting

I thought g.skill made their own ram, but nope

1 less actual die manufacture than I thought lol

[dire thunder]

Hey

[turbid elm]

Lol

Hey

[vale mulch]

so the first number IS CL. and there is for sure 4 numbers. i literally see 3 or 4 sometimes tho.

[warm compass]

The main ones from DDR5 are Micron, Sk Hynix, and Samsung,

We dont talk about micron ddr5

[turbid elm]

They might skip the primary one

[vale mulch]

so timings are latency settings.

[turbid elm]

Why not?

[dire thunder]

Can u guys help me my budget is 2k I'm going for an amd cpu and a Nvidia gpu

[turbid elm]

Start a new thread

[warm compass]

They make the worst ddr5 dies iirc

[dire thunder]

I did

No one I there man

[vale mulch]

so you basically just want all your timings to be as low as possible and the first number is literally your CL

[turbid elm]

I believe so

[vale mulch]

so is 4x16gb = 1 kit or 2 kits?

[austere shale]

It should only ever be one kit

But that’s for Intel

For amd you have to get 2x32

[turbid elm]

Don’t get 4 sticks

It lowers your ram speed substantially

[vale mulch]

so in this example. no sort. the numbers listed under cas latency are the advertised CL as well. so the first ram stick would be

ddr4 3200 CL16. and the distrinction is important because some sticks have the same gen and speed but different CL?

[vale mulch]

its an example

im asking what a kit is

[austere shale]

2 or more ram sticks that come with one purchase

[vale mulch]

on pcpp its just modules

[austere shale]

Like in your screenshot the top one with come with 2 sticks of 8GB.

If it was 4 sticks of 8GB that would also be a kit

[vale mulch]

so 4x16gb is 1 kit still

[turbid elm]

Most Ddr4 3200 is cl16 sometimes cl15, most ddr4 3600 is cl18, sometimes cl16

[austere shale]

But if you buy 2 lots of 2x8GB that’s not a kit

[vale mulch]

and 1x16gb is 1 kit

[austere shale]

That’s 2

[vale mulch]

and 2x16gb is 1 kit

[austere shale]

Correct

Correct

[turbid elm]

Oh ok

[vale mulch]

cause sometimes 1 purchase you can get 4 sticks

[austere shale]

Yes

But you don’t want that

[vale mulch]

this is also a question. im just asking if the cas latency on pcpp is the same CL that comes after the speed when people talk about ram

the one listed in the columns

[austere shale]

That’s what CL stands for

[vale mulch]

and the one thats the first number of the timings

[turbid elm]

Unless you NEED 128gb of ram, which a gaming pc would not

[vale mulch]

its all the same thing?

[turbid elm]

Yea

[vale mulch]

and each ram stick only has 1 CL?

not like different CL numbers

[turbid elm]

I think so

[austere shale]

Yes

If you buy as a kit

[vale mulch]

okii makes sense to me

yeah iguess different kits could have different CLs but thatd be bad cause you want your ram to match from what i hear

[austere shale]

Yes

[vale mulch]

also if ddr is double data rate

was there a sdr

[turbid elm]

Yeah def don’t get different latency. Different speed is ok but you’re wasting money with a newer, faster kit, or a newer slower ram

[vale mulch]

and would there ever be a triple data rate tdr one day

[turbid elm]

Yes, before ddr (1), it was just called “sd ram”

[vale mulch]

oh wow

[turbid elm]

https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/mts-vs-mhz

Yeah

[vale mulch]

okay so i took my 90 min nap

and stumbled upon an undervolting video

so undervolting is the opposite of overclocking?

also something i have noticed about timings is the tras stays close to cas

so idk if there is a formula

but cas + cas and then add the difference from the trcd and the trp

so if cas is 15

15 + 15

is 30

and then the trcd and trp will be something like 17

so then 2 + 2

is 4

and then the tras will be something like 34 or like 36

are the trcd and the trp always the same?

i know the trcd is the row selection speed

[austere shale]

Sort of but can improve performance if your system runs too hot

[vale mulch]

but it was unclear if the trp is the column selection speed

[austere shale]

And yes

[vale mulch]

so undervolting can act like a small safer overclocking especially if you have hardware that already ride their "red lines" closely

[austere shale]

It’s not an overclock but sure

[vale mulch]

oh okay

ik overclock is just increase the voltage then

[austere shale]

So like for small form factor builds that can’t have as good cooling undervolying can help keep it cooler and stop thermal throttling

[vale mulch]

so then since uving lowers voltage. does it extend cpu life?

[austere shale]

Theoretically yes

[vale mulch]

but only if heat is a problem. otherwise im guessing you might already be hitting that voltage factory minimum anyway? where a difference in lifespan cant really be observed from an uv cpu and a stock cpu

the difference is probably much greater with a uv cpu vs a oc cpu

[austere shale]

It’s really depends because cpu life can be affected by many factors

That being utilisation, temperature, clock speed

[vale mulch]

also ik there is a way to oc safely but does that mean there is a way to oc without shortening cpu lifespan?

ik if you go too far it definitely will

[austere shale]

It’s hard to say

[vale mulch]

but is there a way to increase voltage and not shorten the cpus life

damn

and so then im also guessing, it is impossible to oc and uv at the same time right?

so you basically have to choose which one you want to do

[austere shale]

You can but to an extent

It’s kinda dumb to do both

So yeah just choose one or the other

Or neither

[vale mulch]

how is that possible if they involve adjusting the voltage in opposite directions

[austere shale]

Wdym

[vale mulch]

like i can see how you could oc at the beginning of the day and then turn off oc and then turn on uv later in the day

[austere shale]

Undervolying is reducing voltage

Overclock is increasing the clock speed

[vale mulch]

but idk how you could oc and uv at the same time

oh

so oc doesnt involve the voltage. it just ends up getting raised.

as a result

so you could oc to the red line

and then uv down a bit to find a sweetspot

[austere shale]

Sure

Though that “red line” can change with time

[vale mulch]

oh so if you dont keep up with it

[austere shale]

So it’s just easier to overclock

Or to just undervoly

T

[vale mulch]

after some time the red line could wear over time and then you might be oc past the red line

[austere shale]

Probably not past

As your system ages

[vale mulch]

so ram speed is like an additive property which is why performance scales so flat

but its good for servers and people who use ram to store something weird like their os

which ik is possible.

and wait, so gpu's have their own built in ram on their pcbs??

and integrated graphics like igpus and apus use your regular ram is you dont have a dedicated gpu plugged into a pcie slot?

does this mean your integrated graphics could eat away at your ram even if you have a dedicated gpu plugged in? or does the integrated graphics get disabled when the dedicate gpu is plugged in and detected?

or is turning your integrated graphics off an optional choice to save ram

so that means ram speed really helps integrated graphics users. so those people who dont have a gpu for some reason.

oh i should have guessed it was qdr and not tdr

qdr is quad data rate

so then where is all the qdr ram sticks?

like qdr3 or qdr4 qdr 5

[vale mulch]

OH so the column is CAS

so then why isnt trcd RAS then

okay so what is jedec???

and what are spd extensions?

and whats eeprom?

[vale mulch]

oh wait is RAS the last one.

if so thats so strange cause i thought the ram does row selection before column selection?

wait so mbs can actually secure advantages with the mrc? what is that? so a mb with good thickness and better vrm and better mrc is a better mb?

and what is memory training?

what is the imc?

so it seems there is a 5th timing called CR

[vale mulch]

okay so im finally getting a better idea of ram

speed does matter

it is like the additive baseline for the cpu and cpu bound games where the gpu isnt used as much

because the gpu has its own vram

which is its memory

the CL only matters within its respective speeds for the most part, but ram with a high speed and a slow CL (a higher number CL) will sometimes lose out to a ram with a lower speed that has a very tight CL eventhough the former has a higher speed, if the CL between the two in the comparison have a great enough gap it might be able to make up for the speed loss.

also different ram works different depending on intel vs amd

it seems

i think my best option for choosing a ram stick

will be choosing the speed i want

speed + cl that i want

on intel for example, no one seems to be enthusiastic about the 6400 mhz stick

but the 6400 mhz stick seems to be one of the best options for amd

anything above 6400mhz wasnt working as of 5 months ago. so idk what has been fixed and is now possible.

but the cl is 32 which is relatively still low

the first word is 10ns

which seems to be a standard for ddr5

and all the tests ive seen for 6800, 7200, 7600, 7800 mhz either dont work at all or perform worse

picking ram is like choosing masteries in league or picking a background in D&D

but just cause the 6400 mhz speed does nicely, it doesnt mean that higher speed always do

as with all other specs on parts they are just clues to if it does or doesnt perform a certain way

ddr5 5600 cl28 seems to be just as good as the ddr5 6400 cl32

the ddr5 6000 cl30 isnt a bad option either

the 6400 might be better for ocing tho

most of this is only really important for lower end ram sticks with lower transfer speeds

[austere shale]

It can be a struggle to get that working for the reasons mentioned before

That’s why no one makes ram for amd above 6000mhz

[vale mulch]

is that accurate tho

[austere shale]

And this is objectively the best

[vale mulch]

i have found 6400 mhz sticks on pcpp that are compat

[austere shale]

?

[vale mulch]

to me it seems like the 3rd best

[vale mulch]

like how up to date

[austere shale]

Does it say AMD expo on the end

If not then forget it

[vale mulch]

cause from what ive seen. it seems 6400 mhz is fine

and its not overpriced

[vale mulch]

at the end of where

i wasnt aware, amd ram needed to say this

[austere shale]

You don’t but it’s a good idea if you’re going amd because then it’s guaranteed to work

If you scroll up you can see the conversation about it

[austere shale]

.

[vale mulch]

so i have to go with corsair?

[austere shale]

Other companies make it as well

If you scroll more down the other person sent a gskill kit

[vale mulch]

it seems that the 6400 is on there tho

its just out of stock

[austere shale]

At cl38

[vale mulch]

i do like the 5600 cl28

what if they had the same cl

could they have different timings too

[austere shale]

Then you can go 6400

As long as it says for amd expo

[vale mulch]

so like ddr5 5600 cl28
and another ddr5 5600 cl28

the timings for the first one could be 28-34-34-89
but the timings for the 2nd could be 28-36-36-93

is this possible?

[austere shale]

Yes but that won’t matter

Maybe -0.5fps

[vale mulch]

kind of.

in a world of options. still choose the one that makes sense

like always go for tighter timings especially if its cheaper or within budget

also especially since the first one is the real timings and the 2nd one i made up

but thats good to know

i hear amd seems to like better timings more

and itll help narrow down all the ram aibs

what are they called for ram?

is it still aib partners?

or something else

[austere shale]

K you can choose your ram now

[vale mulch]

do you know the answer to this

[austere shale]

No

Not important though

[vale mulch]

this is the clip that confused me

why was the timings only listed as 3 numbers here

[austere shale]

Because the CL number is the first number

They just didn’t want to repeat the 40

So it’s 40 40 40 76

And 30 38 38 96

[vale mulch]

oh okay

and then why does no one ever list the 5th number

for CR

heres a nice graphic i found tho

[austere shale]

Because it’s irrelevant to the consumer

[vale mulch]

why dont we have qdr ram?

[austere shale]

We do

Not for normal pcs

[vale mulch]

what type of pcs use qdr

[austere shale]

networking

So not normal pcs

[vale mulch]

is qdr better than ddr

[austere shale]

Can’t say

If it was standardised then it should be

[vale mulch]

is qdr compat with dimm slots

[austere shale]

Don’t know

[vale mulch]

im a little lost on jedec

and youtubers keep throwing it around

[austere shale]

That all they are

That’s basically all they do

[vale mulch]

what do they do

so they are an engineering council?

[austere shale]

Yes

Electrical engineering council

[vale mulch]

thats kind of cringe

[austere shale]

Kind of important though

Choosing your parts would be infinitely harder without them

[vale mulch]

return of the jedec

[vale mulch]

do they make it easier by just putting a seal on it

are they just for ram

so like

the FDA but for ram basically

[austere shale]

Not just ram

Storage

And safety related stuff

[vale mulch]

ohh okay

so i will see them again more later

[austere shale]

Yes

[vale mulch]

so they just give the jedec thumbs up and thats it

lmao

[austere shale]

They just make sure there’s not like 20 different types of ram slots

[vale mulch]

ohh thats nice

so kind of like EU with the whole apple losing lightning cable

[austere shale]

I guess

[vale mulch]

cause eu wants everything to be type c now

[austere shale]

Yes

[vale mulch]

but some people think apple will just do neither

lmao

and do mag safe stuff

[austere shale]

Yeah none of us in Europe really care

Partly politics

[vale mulch]

but jedec didnt do that one

[austere shale]

They don’t control charger

S

[vale mulch]

so with ram

they just call it brand

not aib

[silver path]

well ram is gonna be at least 6000mhz and cl30 capacity is your choice but i reccomend 32 at least for ai and that kind of cpu

[vale mulch]

which is important for warranty

[silver path]

yeah and ban made in china stuff too or at least most made in china electronics

[vale mulch]

i hate china anyway

[austere shale]

Oh

[vale mulch]

and north korea

[silver path]

wrong reply i think

[vale mulch]

yeah mb

[silver path]

going back to ram

[vale mulch]

okii

[silver path]

so at leas 32 gb?

[vale mulch]

yeah

im on board with that

maybe more

with ram i can mitigate stuff

so like i dont need to mitigate performance since my cpu and gpu are top

[silver path]

128gb if you want but thatd be like 400 bucks alone

[vale mulch]

but capacity could help with bigger stuff like server / ai workloads

since im not running a threadripper / xeon

epyc

[silver path]

you can have an ssd be the cache imo also what motherboard did you go with?

[vale mulch]

i think i want to put os on the ssd

i havent chosen a mb

[silver path]

the motherboard is also a defining factor of ram cos they have a ram limit

[vale mulch]

right

i will have to decide on features soon

[austere shale]

She won’t reach the limit

Because amd

[vale mulch]

oh yeah this^

none of the sticks go that high

[austere shale]

64, potentially 96 but that’s a niche thing

[vale mulch]

all the boards are like 128 or whatever

[silver path]

with your budget id say 2 m.2 ssds one for boot other for cache and an 8tb samsung main game and work drive

[austere shale]

2x64 sticks do exist but they’re also uncommon

[vale mulch]

does rarity determine quality

[austere shale]

Kind of

[vale mulch]

im scared to try something out of the box kind of

[silver path]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/QJ3gXL/gskill-ripjaws-s5-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-f5-6000j3040g32gx2-rs5k this would be what id reccomend

gskill are op at ram

[austere shale]

Not that they’re bad but they tend to run slow at high latencies

[silver path]

yeah

[austere shale]

I recommended her a kit specific for amd expo

[silver path]

cl30 for 6000mhz is the good point

[austere shale]

I think gskill also make some tuned for amd

[vale mulch]

oh so good capacities but so few 2nd hand manufacturers that thers not a lot there

[silver path]

g skill has expo capabilities

they are good

[vale mulch]

what is expo

is it not xmp

[austere shale]

Xmp is Intel

Expo is amd equivalent

[silver path]

expo is for amd

[vale mulch]

OH

so 6000 and 6400 for amd is fine

but it might not have oc

[austere shale]

Potentially if it’s been tested for amd expo

[austere shale]

Anything above 4400mhz is technically oc

[silver path]

also no corsair vengeance kits here my friend bought their 64 6000mhz kit and he had to rma cos expo killed his ram :<

[vale mulch]

yeah that too

does jedec decide the stock speed

[silver path]

expo is oc in a way

no

[vale mulch]

like how ddr4 was 2213 or something weird

[silver path]

you shouldnt care much about jedec

[austere shale]

They just determine th standard 288 pin slots or m.2 slots or whatever

And the modules

[silver path]

yeah that was the first bank speed for 2666mhz

[vale mulch]

ohhh

so a lot like that apple situation

just not the same people

[silver path]

yea

they also rate quailty i think

[austere shale]

So if someone wants to make money they should comply with those standards

[vale mulch]

for psu?

[austere shale]

There’s a seperate thing for that

[vale mulch]

oh

[silver path]

ram kits thats what jedec ratings are for

[vale mulch]

ik about efficiency

[silver path]

makes jac shit of a difference in quality

[proud rapids]

For psu we may as well go for a atx 3.0 psu

[austere shale]

Make your own psu

[silver path]

https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/ anything from A/B/C tier is a good psu other tiers are potential fire hazards

this is the most recent

corsair rm series are very good psus im not sure if theyre on there tho

[austere shale]

I think she’ll choose psu later

[silver path]

rigth ram

anything over 6000 mhz is a waste of money for amd

cl30 kits are the best at 6000 but 32 is acceptable

cl is cas latency btw its how many nanoseconds it takes for th data to be written to the ram

[austere shale]

Yeah she went through that in

A lot of detail

Like a lot

[silver path]

oh

fair

just get the gskill kit

its good for expo

[vale mulch]

i actually think the 6400 is good.

its not overpriced either

[silver path]

no

[vale mulch]

the support seems there as of 5 months ago. but not fully.

[silver path]

anything over 6000 has literally no change in results for amd

ram oc is useless as well

[vale mulch]

i feel like the 6400 performed best on amd

[silver path]

source?

[vale mulch]

one sec

[austere shale]

Just let her pick 6400

[silver path]

how much isthat kit

[austere shale]

I’ve already told her no more than 6000 several times

[vale mulch]

yeah but i just disagree

[silver path]

if that kit is over 250 bucks its not worth the money

[vale mulch]

i agree for like 7800 and 8000

and 7200

[silver path]

i thought you were the clueless one here?

[vale mulch]

i was

[silver path]

welp you still seem to be

[austere shale]

Just understand if you get 6400 and it’s not tested for amd expo you may not be able to run at 6400

[vale mulch]

https://youtu.be/b-WFetQjifc

[vale mulch]

but this means i could get an 8000 and just run at 4400

[silver path]

listen i tested ram frequencies with my friend with that rmad corsair kit and going from 6000 to 6600 did jack shit except for the fact that we got like 18 bsods and csgo wouldnt launch

[austere shale]

No you’ll just have to downclock it until it works

So you might end up running at 6200 6000 5600 5200

[silver path]

itd be unstable as fuck

[vale mulch]

yeah downclock to 4400 isnt that what you mean

from an 8000 or a 7800 or a 7200

[silver path]

listen ram is really sensitive to frequency change

[vale mulch]

yeah but factory is 4400

if it says 8000 thats just oc

[silver path]

you change some its from 6000 to 6100 and its unstable

[silver path]

nope some kits come out of factory at 5600 base

[austere shale]

Xmp oc

[rose sentinel]

What have we got so far on build?

[silver path]

all amd cpus without expo will set their ram speed to 5600

[vale mulch]

so you cant use xmp if you have an amd mb

[austere shale]

Cpu gpu

[silver path]

cpu and gpu still

[vale mulch]

you can only use xmp with a intel mb?

[rose sentinel]

Damn lol

[silver path]

you can its just called expo

xmp and expo is the same shit

[vale mulch]

ik that

[silver path]

xmp- intel
expo- amd

simples

[vale mulch]

i just meant that 8000 is for oc as in xmp or expo then?

[vale mulch]

why not 4400

[silver path]

6400 is a waste of money 6000 is the sweet spot cl32 max and 64gbb capacity now stop being an entitled brat just becaue an ltt video showed you this is good

[vale mulch]

is 4400 intel only

[silver path]

ask google

[austere shale]

Only xmp as amd doesn’t support 8000

[silver path]

im honestly getting pissed at the fact you ask for advice AND DONT FUCKING TAKE IT

[vale mulch]

never understood this thought process

[austere shale]

That’s ddr4

[vale mulch]

had a situation like that on my server

[silver path]

you ask for advice

we give you good advice

and then you just ignore

[vale mulch]

not exactly advice. i was asking to learn. now i have learned and i disagree with you

[silver path]

and g base your opinions on a singlesource

[vale mulch]

but im not done looking into the ram speeds

like if its overpriced. then your wrong

cause its not

the other ones are

[silver path]

id love to just fly over to your house and punch you across the face

[vale mulch]

why

thats so fucked

[silver path]

because youre being entitled

[vale mulch]

entitled how

[silver path]

by sticking to your idea after asking us if its a good or bad one

[vale mulch]

i didnt really ask on the 6400 vs the 5800 and the 6000

i just sort of said

[silver path]

you asked is 6400 a good frequency we said no get 6000 and now youre not even listening

[vale mulch]

the 6400 and the 5800 seem to be the best

and the 6000 seems to be a 3rd pick for me

i could choose any of the 3 and be fine

[silver path]

5800 is slower and similarly priced to 6000 idiot

[austere shale]

I think it’s good to take advice from people more knowledgable/experienced than you

[vale mulch]

the cl is better

[silver path]

cs go would crash on 6400

[vale mulch]

but csgo is a cpu bound game?

[silver path]

makes no diff at all if the price is similar?

what cl?

[vale mulch]

cas latency

[silver path]

and what does the cpu use?

ram

[silver path]

no im asking what cl i sthe 5800 kit

if the game cant catch up to the ram speed it will not work

[vale mulch]

oh one sec

[silver path]

just because something is fast doesnt mean its good

[vale mulch]

i havent looked into brands

[silver path]

gskill of hyper x corsair too but not their vengeance lineup

[vale mulch]

the ddr5 comparisons seem to be limited to what they are which is speed, latency which is a derivative of that

[silver path]

answer?

[vale mulch]

i actually do care more about cap

one sec

[silver path]

you mean cl?

[vale mulch]

no capacity

i actually do put speed above cl

but if the speeds are similar since its so additive it doesmt make much of a difference until you factor in the CL

[silver path]

you should do the opposite

cl over speed

[vale mulch]

CL is what makes the most difference in fps along with first word

but only when comparing with similar speeds

if a ddr4 has a CL of 14. like of course it does. but it also has a much slower speed.

so the overall performance actually does stay substantially lower

relatively speaking in terms of ram

[silver path]

6000 cl30

is a sweet

spot

end.

[vale mulch]

its good

[silver path]

of.

story.

[vale mulch]

im not even ruling it out yet

[silver path]

but preffering 6400 cl 32 over it is dumb

[vale mulch]

i also think MT/s makes a huge deal but arent usually listed

but ig technically is a derivative of speed

[silver path]

it doesnt

[silver path]

it is and cas latency

also first word latency is important

[vale mulch]

in this last one we have a comparison of the different 6000s and the 6400

it also seems that as of 5 months ago. the 6400 is newly compat and works fine, but wasnt able to finish every benchmark test yet. but its been 5 months so things might have improved.

[silver path]

get amd statisics not intel lol ram speed matter between amd/intel and affects performance differently, these graphs are irrelevant here for amd

[silver path]

also spending 250 on a 6400 kit while a 6000 kit for 180 gives 2-4fpsdiff is worthless

[vale mulch]

did you find the cheapest 6000 and the most expensive 6400 lol

[proud rapids]

The fps only matter if you are only play first person shooters or they are your main focus

[vale mulch]

i havent checked current prices but the price increase didnt seem much higher from the 6000

[silver path]

bbut 2 fps makes 0 diff

[vale mulch]

actually most of the performance increase is in random productivity apps

otherwise it looks more linear

[vale mulch]

in this chart is best value ddr5 speeds for intel which notably includes up to 7800 because im guessing it actually is compat with intel

[vale mulch]

whereas in this chart we see the best value for amd

which would be the 5200 but thats slow for ddr5 and it has a CL of 42 which is not desireable

the ddr5 6400 cl32 is actually the same value per frame as the ddr5 6000 cl30 in these tests

of course i havent chosen the 6400

as i havent looked into more tests yet

obviously the 6000 cl40 is horrible when the cl30 exists

but the 5600 cl28 is an even better value while still being able to keep up with the 6000 and the 6400 most of the time since it has a similar 10ns first word

[vale mulch]

and not only this but the chart bells out on intel showing that even on intel's end, the 6400 seems to be the sweetspot

the 6000 cl30 also does this, but the 6400 does it the same way just better.

if it runs and runs great on amd with expo, then i dont see why not to choose the 6400 over the 5600 or the 6000

that gskill only has a first word of 10

which is good

looks like top brands are gskill and corsair

ive only heard of corsair and samsung

i heard about teamgroup last week

and then gskill today

so what dtermines the compat ram speed

why does anything above 6400 not post?

is it determined by the mobo

[proper dove]

We’re almost at 10,000 messages 🗿🗿🗿

[austere shale]

The amd ram controller

Which is on the motherboard

[vale mulch]

so it is. is the ram controller apart of the bios?

or is it a physical part

[silver path]

its part of the cpu

[silver path]

less goooo

[silver path]

yep

[silver path]

i mean hynix micron and kingston are the ones that make the actual chips

[hot mural]

This person is either writing their thesis for their doctorate or is a troll. There is plenty of knowledge via Google searching and videos to explain all the things we have all said a dozen times over. Yet she continues to question everything. Most people giving advice are eleventeen or younger even and not really qualified to offer proper advice, and educate. Some of us have degrees, and even then are not really qualified to get into the specifics of why and how things work with a computer. We simply have biases based off personal preference on what has worked for us.

At nearly 10,000 messages, if this person truly had an unlimited budget on their pc, and they have stated they are .. "rich". Then they wouldn't really care about half the stuff we are discussing. Give them the best, and call it a day. It'll work for many years to come.

It's blowing my mind how much people are helping this person when there are dozens more asking for help and receiving little to no advice.

@vale mulch you have been given a metric ton of options. You don't need to KNOW WHY something works, just know thag it does, or does not. If you want to learn more, look it up, or attend classes. But everyone has listed builds, advice, tips and yet you still question. I doubt your sincerity at this point. If I am wrong I wish you the best.

[vale mulch]

i heard kingston is pricey

usually there is an explanation for why some cpus and gpus are insanely prices. in the case of cpus the cpus were industrial and / or threadrippers.

in the case of gpus, it was the same situation, but also just regular flagship gpus actually just costing that much.

my question now is, what is the explanation here if any?

[silver path]

why are you looking at ddr4?

[vale mulch]

im not

[hot mural]

You are

I love those prices though

[vale mulch]

is there no explanation

[hot mural]

This is what I'm talking about dream. You don't need to know, just know ddr5 is faster, and supports faster speeds, so buy ram based off that. Look at your cpu and see what speeds it supports and buy ram based off that. If you want to know the specifics, type that exact question into google.

[vale mulch]

im not looking at ddr4

[hot mural]

That entire list is ddr4 except one

[vale mulch]

im asking about why these ram is so expensive here

[vale mulch]

i literally get this so many times and i will never understand why.

you guys literally know pcpp

should know it better than me

so why is that

when i screenshot pcpp

everyone just looks at the screenshot and goes

wtf why are they searching this

i didnt search up ddr4

i dont want ddr4

[hot mural]

On pcpartpicker if a product is out ... everywhere, it will show exorbitant prices like that

[vale mulch]

i have no intent of getting ddr4

[vale mulch]

but all of these?

[crystal atlas]

Have you selected a motherboard yet?

That might be the issue

[vale mulch]

its been like this since ive started and not having an explanation has bothered me

[hot mural]

I will literally type ddr5 in pcpart and ss, show you how fast itnis

[vale mulch]

no no.

please understand, that im not making a pcpp right now

[crystal atlas]

Ah

[vale mulch]

im just taking a screenshot of this expensive ram

[crystal atlas]

Okay

[vale mulch]

but what about ram basically

[crystal atlas]

Just came in w/o any context sry

[vale mulch]

its fine

its like. i try asking a simple question. and no one knows the answers anymore. and idk who to ask. and what am i supposed to type into google

"why is some ram on pcpp $2000?"

lmao like

[hot mural]

They make up insane prices on part picker for every component that is out.

Just dont buy those ones.... pretty easy

[vale mulch]

im not going to buy them obviously

[hot mural]

It's either out of stock, or unavailable.

[vale mulch]

it would say that tho

so thats not it

and also, the one that displays in that column

is the cheapest available price

so its not some outlier price

its not even computer science

and people here should know about timings btw

[hot mural]

We don't code the website, so it's literally impossible for us to know this unless someone works at pcpp

[vale mulch]

it literally has nothing to do with that

[hot mural]

Lower the timings the faster the ram, it's like having a higher speed limit on a highway

[vale mulch]

even i know

that its the cheapest price displayed

im sorting by price

[hot mural]

Same goes for the actual speed of the memory

It's like having more lanes on a highway, or faster speed limit

[vale mulch]

but what's displayed is the cheapest price inside when you click on it

[vale mulch]

look

i dont need help with ram

i literally did it myself

[hot mural]

Congrats

[vale mulch]

cause no one here knew anything about ram or motherboards

[hot mural]

Better motherboards have better capacitors or fancy things like dac outputs. Or better wifi. Or multiple ethernet ports.

If you don't need them don't get them

I literally have a computer engineering degree dream. This is how I explain this to everyone. Makes no sense to get into the minute details when you will ask "why" anyway.

[vale mulch]

im going to choose my ram speed CL and timings before i finish choosing my mb

[vale mulch]

well thanks for being unhelpful.

[hot mural]

You should go, cpu > motherboard > ram > gpu when building a pc

[vale mulch]

like i already you dont believe me

and idfk why and its really annoying

but think for a moment.

[hot mural]

I just explained how everything works

And why certain motherboards are more expensice

Some are made with better parts, others pcp, others capacitors, some have better on board audio, some are for oc'ing.

[vale mulch]

if you were wrong how awful this is to just be in here constantly just discouraging me

this was already so hard for me to get into

and now that i have, i am already better than a lot of people here

[hot mural]

Don't play a victim card here girlie

You have had a metric ton of help and ignore it

[vale mulch]

i never though i would get this far

[hot mural]

I jist answered your two questions you said have been unanswered

And you glossed right over it

[vale mulch]

its not a metric ton

its literally just this

[hot mural]

And I know others have answered it too

[vale mulch]

and then me doing most of the work on my own off the thread

[hot mural]

I know because I said this exact thing like 3 days ago

[vale mulch]

because i basically cant get anymore help because most of it is just this

literally just you and people like you coming in here trolling

[hot mural]

You absolutely need to do most of the work. We are only here to help. You have to put in the work or you will learn nothing, and accomplish nothing.

[vale mulch]

talking about the number of messages in the thread

and so on

[hot mural]

If a troll is someone who takes time from their day to assist someone, jesus you will hate the online gaming world

[vale mulch]

yeah but you arent helping

[hot mural]

But I am.

I answered ALL your questions. But you don't listen.

[vale mulch]

and its so dumb

cause like i can block this mass of people

[hot mural]

Others have answered ALL your questions, and you are not listening

[vale mulch]

and i am pretty sure some of them have multiple accounts and just alternate

but its like

[hot mural]

Others have posted answers, builds, explanations and you continue to not listen

[vale mulch]

even if i block them. the people who are helpful come in here and reply to them so i have to constantly uncollapse

[hot mural]

Your still not listening, and rather then being like ... ok, take a breather, and look through 10 days worth of messages, you keep asking why indefinitely.

[vale mulch]

why do you think someone elses build is going to be helpful at all

[hot mural]

That's the opposite of growing and learning

[vale mulch]

its like you pc builders have a way of doing recommendations where you turn into about yourself

[hot mural]

You asked for a build you said budget is unlimited, cause you an rich gurl

[vale mulch]

the way ik. is cause youre literally just mocking me

[hot mural]

So people will post builds that are the best, most highly reviewed and tested products. There might be a few discrepancies here or there based off biases, but it overall remains the same.

[vale mulch]

they post builds completely ignorant of me

[hot mural]

Jesus christ

[vale mulch]

they literally come in here and post a cpu and gpu cause its their favorite part

but im literally done with the cpu and gpu

so its not helpful

[hot mural]

Most people can't afford the things they are posting. They post what they know are good and have been reviewed extensively.

So your wrong

[vale mulch]

wrong about what?

[hot mural]

The only thing they are sticking with is either amd / intel etc based off preferencem

But they are still posting the best of both.

You won't listen and im done arguing with a child. Good luck with everything.

[vale mulch]

why would i listen???

me: "i have the cpu and gpu chosen"
entry level guy who just started doing recommendations: "nah get this cpu an gpu instead, they are the best"
me: "no"

"dream doesnt listen"

like what

im listening to answers. not suggestions for things that i dont need

which btw it is impossible to pick all of their cpus or gpus

lmao

you only get to pick one

and that's another thing i cant stand is just everyone barking about my budget.

so far i have a $650 cpu thats slightly overpriced. and a $1600+ gpu that is very overpriced, but is a halo tier item.

and that's well within my budget.

im not even rich in the way like influencers are

i just have money for this pc

its like

everyone is mad about the money i have or something

or they are mad about me spending so much even though 7950x3d and 4090 are completely viable options

[proper dove]

No we’re mad your so indecisive

[vale mulch]

why

its literally my pc

and its still a lot of money

like bffr

ive never bought anything just cause.

i literally do this with everything i buy

if you think buying a gpu or ram stick based off the way it looks is a better use of your money, then be my guest.

im not even indecisive like, you guys freak tf out because i havent chosen. and its like. im literally at work.

[distant aspen]

You’re aren’t building your own pc here, you’re building a pc for someone else. They are most definitely entitled to their own opinions

[vale mulch]

what???

[distant aspen]

Not talking to you sorry

Meant to reply to the other guy

[vale mulch]

ohh ty

i was about to say

i live alone with my cat

[distant aspen]

Yeah lol ig I didn’t press the button

[vale mulch]

my cat gaming on a 7950x3d

[distant aspen]

They cranking 90s in fortnite ranked

[vale mulch]

ive never played fortnite

but i hear its easy

[distant aspen]

Idk I haven’t played in a while and I played no builds

You’re so close to 10k messages nice job

[vale mulch]

thanks

$1 for each message

til we reach $20k

lmao

[distant aspen]

lol

What point of the whole part picking process are you at right now, scrolling up I just see another guy acting like his opinion is the most important thing rather than someone else’s whose pc it is

[vale mulch]

so im learning that the cpu + ram combo can drastically change the results of a comparison

so on its own the 13900k is whatever, but the 7200 speed ram with it. is amazing.

it literallly puts it on par in gaming with the 7950x3d with a 6000

[distant aspen]

So what cpu are you leaning towards right now?

[vale mulch]

meaning that ram can make up for some performance and that when you judge a cpu, there is more to it than just the cpu itself

[crystal atlas]

10k comments

[vale mulch]

cpu is almost for sure going to be 7950x3d

ALR

[distant aspen]

Let’s go

[vale mulch]

i will scroll up 10k messages

just so i can edit the post

geez

[crystal atlas]

Good luck lmao

[distant aspen]

I’ve tried that several times

[crystal atlas]

There are 3 mods in this chat lmao

[vale mulch]

it will take me like 48 minutes probably

[distant aspen]

Been following this at the beginning but then came back to 9k messages from like 25 messages

[distant aspen]

4 including one that’s offline

[crystal atlas]

True

[vale mulch]

im pretty sure they warned one guy

[crystal atlas]

Dude micheals thread got nuked a second time

[vale mulch]

for basically saying that the 10k messages is proof of how dumb i am

[crystal atlas]

Oh lmao

[distant aspen]

Dang you know you screwed up when 4 mods in the LTT server come to warn you

[vale mulch]

well he actually pinged them

[crystal atlas]

Wtf

Why would you do that

[vale mulch]

they think im literally fake

[distant aspen]

That means nothing like that? You’re learning and there’s a lot to learn here. The message count does not mean that

[vale mulch]

its going to be funny when this is all done and i celebrate with pictures

[distant aspen]

People lack brain cells sometimes

[distant aspen]

Yes lol

[crystal atlas]

I’m all here for it

[distant aspen]

Are you learning about the different parts right now or selecting the parts that you’re going to use?

[vale mulch]

yeah i skim learned it cause i really knew nothing

but now im going more in depth

at least until i feel confident

but it also involves product research which is my least favorite

cause i do a lot of that as is for other things and doing it for 8 major pc parts is not fun

[distant aspen]

You mean you don’t love looking at parts that are way overpriced from companies whose only goal is to suck all the money that they can from everyone possible?

[vale mulch]

but i feel very confident on cpus and gpus

but i also feel like this is where most people stopp

[crystal atlas]

Yeah p much

Most people just pick decent ram and then stop

[vale mulch]

but im feeling p confident about ram

[distant aspen]

Definitely not talking about a certain green company here

[vale mulch]

literally

i wish i was around for $500 gpus

that sounds so fun