networked laptop and desktop work fine, but after a while they cannot see each other

[boreal musk]

You're going to have a hard time finding anyone willing to help you w/ networking Win 7 & XP, because that is a massive security risk. The less network connectivity that laptop has, the better

[bright wave]

okay, if you don't want to help, it's okay to tell me you don't want to help me, I'm aware of what I'm doing. I take proper security precautions and am just trying to do something. Someone surely knows, and windows 7 isn't horribly old anyway, and continues to exhibit the issue, which is exactly why I made it clear that it's not the fault of windows xp.

[mild mirage]

Disable your windows defender firewall. See if that is causing the issue

[frozen briar]

My friend - Unless they're living on isolated VLAN's with strict access control between them and the rest of your home network, you have a gaping security hole.

Both XP and Windows 7 have reached true end of life and aren't getting regular security updates. Windows 7 is very much "horribly old". Extended support for commercial embedded systems terminated on January 10th.

---

All that said, at the surface level this sounds like maybe the Windows 7 machines Windows Firewall is being pissy. You can confirm this by disabling the firewall.

If you want to disable the Windows 7 machines firewall, you need to throw those machines on an isolated network. Ideally hardlines to a switch that can't touch the internet Anything other than that is risky af.

[bright wave]

thanks for the insight however none of us are children here is what I meant

because if someone has an answer they can just drop it in here, it's been an age old problem on forums where people constantly tell the user asking that they should do things differently instead of adding something meaningful
in this case you did add something meaningful, however, not all people do

and the problem with that approach is that you aren't being considerate, you have no idea what the user might all need their hardware for or if they have any other choice, and that's why I don't like that approach

[frozen briar]

There are key words that tell us we should matter of factly tell you what you're doing is a bad idea though.

I get it comes across as abrasive but it's the IT guy equivalent of letting your drunk friend drive home from the party.

[bright wave]

maybe the user does indeed know a whole lot more than the replier thinks and the user is asking because they have never seen this problem

[boreal musk]

people constantly tell the user asking that they should do things differently instead of adding something meaningful

To add some context here - Lots of folks come into #1027757333117415424 asking for help with internet-connected Win7 & XP devices.
Almost always, running an OS that old is not necessary for them. They just feel like doing it.
So, when someone comes in asking similar questions without making explicitly clear either A) it's not internet-connected B) A very clear and specific reason why it must be this way & exact precautions they're taking

You say "you have no idea what the user might all need their hardware for or if they have any other choice" and you're right, because you didn't tell us.

[frozen briar]

Frankly, if that were the case, you wouldn't be doing this on your home network. You need to understand this forum is full of low-experience people doing dangerous things either to their computers or their networks.

[bright wave]

well, I may not have another network to do it on, and a wired solution isn't preferrable

[boreal musk]

When it comes to EOL operating systems, the burden is on the poster to explain why it's worth seeking help, not on the helpers to assume they're doing things properly

[frozen briar]

Maybe you've got it nailed - Maybe you've got isolated VLANS, with strictly defined ACL's - If you did, you wouldn't be asking for help.

Otherwise, you can buy a switch and a couple cat6 cables from Best Buy and do your experiments in an affordable, easily configured, isolated enviornment

[bright wave]

I understand your concern, I didn't know there were still that many people coming in asking even xp related questions, I thought I was the odd one out and I would find someone who is also knowledgable on software from that time period to answer

[boreal musk]

That's okay! You're not a regular here. So here we are, explaining that people aren't going to help unless you lay out exactly why it's necessary and what you're doing to keep your network safe. Hands' analogy with drunk driving is apt

[bright wave]

well in my personal opinion, the judged risk is not as great as it seems because often, too much knowledge can lead to endless worrying about things that may not actually happen (some of which I have done myself)

I have been doing this for a long time. XP has been horribly old according to your definitions since 2014, and I've been continuing to do things like this sometimes even on older operating systems like windows 98 with (so far) no incidents, because on occasion I will have a look and see what's going on on my network just so I know I'm not being horribly abused

XP is getting to the point where it's not the target, 7 will become what XP was in 2014 in that it's going to become the easiest gateway for network style malware

however, if you're just a little bit crafty (which, for reasons concerning legality on this server I won't get too deep into) you can get windows 7 updates from as recently as half a year ago

[frozen briar]

Yeah, regedits to get yourself free access to the extended service life, which is also gone now as of Jan 10th

I can assure you XP is still an attack vector - and there are certainly exploits floating around to turn your XP and 7 machines into slaves for a botnet or crypto farmers, if not pivot points to session hijack your primary desktop or add IOT devices to their list of hosts.

[bright wave]

well, I don't use any of my XP or 7 machines regularly, and I am not blind enough to certain changes
again, it's all things about the user using their computer that you cannot assume and having to assume the worst

which is okay but we should be more open minded

there are still perfectly valid uses for this hardware

[frozen briar]

I know you feel like you've got it all figured out but there's really only one way to handle this safely. Everything else is walking around with your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun

[boreal musk]

I think you're missing the point here

With zero context beyond the issue you're facing, it would be deeply irresponsible of us to assume you're handling this properly

[frozen briar]

And yes, I can make these assumptions, because they're factually based in everything you've told us this far. There's no place for being open minded, it's just an outright worst-pratice by every standard.

[frozen briar]

This exactly

[bright wave]

It's my own opinion to be honest with you, I'm entitled to my own opinion and I've based my opinion on past experiences, which is why I think I've handled this properly, and, legally, you people cannot be held responsible if I get infected

the days of malware like sasser entering your computer just via an active internet connection are over

[frozen briar]

Your opinion means nothing to the Cybersecurity landscape.

You are free to do what you like but if you further the argument we will continue telling you why it's wrong, because it's a binary right/wrong, not a matter of opinion.

At my institution, it's the opinion of the President that we shouldn't use MultiFactor Authentification.

Then what? Oh look, President just lost their account to a phishing attack.

[bright wave]

I'm not continuing the argument I'm just telling you what I think, and it just so happens that what I think has served me well for an over 10 years using these old operating systems

[boreal musk]

It's my own opinion to be honest with you, I'm entitled to my own opinion and I've based my opinion on past experiences, which is why I think you haven't explained your use case sufficiently, and, morally, I cannot offer the help you seek without immense risk of perpetuating harm.

[frozen briar]

And you may think that, but you are objectively wrong in your approach. I would think after 10 years of tinkering you would be more receptive to experts in the field advising you on doing your experiments in a secure setting.

[bright wave]

I'm not asking any of you to help, I'm just trying to get you people to stop worrying about me thinking I'm going to hold you two legally responsible

[boreal musk]

"It hasn't happened to me" infamously a very secure procedure

[bright wave]

you're taking this way too seriously

nothing is that serious here

this isn't a business

it's my house

only I live here

[boreal musk]

thinking I'm going to hold you two legally responsible
(Neither of us think this)

[frozen briar]

Until you try to pull your social security benefits 20 years from now, and find out someone across the Ocean emptied the account already.

[bright wave]

why don't you just mind your own private life

it's outright rude to talk to me about things like this

[frozen briar]

It's not rude at all

That's a real world example of getting it wrong.

[bright wave]

it is rude because as you imply it is a private matter

[boreal musk]

You're the one who posted here

[bright wave]

that guy across the ocean shouldn't know my account and neither should you

you have no reason to talk to me about this

this is a tech support server

not a lifeline

[frozen briar]

He will, when he steals your information, because you're running Xp and Windows 7 on your home network

[bright wave]

a life help server

[frozen briar]

How are you missing the point here

[bright wave]

thanks, but not interested

[frozen briar]

That's a very real, very scary implication to playin with fire.

Choosing to ignore it because you're too good to take proper security measures is dangerous and could LITERALLY cost you a retirement account.

[boreal musk]

@bright wave Here is some tech support for you my friend.
Like I said at the start, you're going to have a hard time finding help on this topic.
If you're going to ask about EOL OS networking, be fully prepared to defend

• Exactly why you need to be running it (you still have given zero context)
• Exactly how you're protecting your home network ("it hasn't happened to me" is not sufficient)
  If you did this early on, instead of getting offended that people are hesitant to provide harmful advice, you may have actually gotten help.
  You're not the first person here to get pissed off that folks refuse to provide 7/XP help, and you won't be the last.

[bright wave]

1. assuming that such information can be found on this computer (ask first whether I store OR use sensitive information on this computer)

[bright wave]

2. there's no reason for someone to be "hesitant", you're a name on my screen, not a physical person that I can beat up, if you're here to do tech support, provide your knowledge, not life advice.

that's all from me.

[frozen briar]

If you think attempting to educate you on proper security when playing with EoL operating systems is life advice and not technical support, idk what to tell you dude.