the-wan-show

[frozen agate]

Consider it done. Adding this to the rewrite tomorrow when I wake up 🙂

[spice cairn]

pp link

[brittle moon]

???

[spice cairn]

[desert raft]

about time

for years ive been telling people not to use them

[cursive tiger]

why do people hate nickelback so much

[olive bronze]

https://metalheadcommunity.com/10-reasons-why-nickelback-gets-so-much-hate/

[true bison]

Repetitive formulaic song structure.
Forgettable / disposable song content (not art).

Met them a few times . If you weren’t a pretty girl, they didn’t have time for you. Real life dicks.
(Gob was the same).
(BNL was the nicest)

[frosty spire]

never had anything from netgear last longer than 2 months 😛 meanwhile, i have a bunch of 10+ year old tp-link stuff that still works perfectly(rackmounted managed switches and routers and such) was using Asus routers for a bit till they pushed an update that bricked my 500 dollar main router, and their response was basically "sucks for you" 😛

[olive bronze]

i think sarah's livestream is in about an hour and a half

[last light]

155kmph in a resident neighborhood is not this. That's get your license taken away territory. Which didn't happen.

[brittle moon]

<t:1734631200:R>

[olive bronze]

wee early

[frozen kettle]

i like tp link

[olive bronze]

i didn't know it was a chinese company, but, i don't really care

[frozen kettle]

hopefully can the amd athlon ii x4 640 and the gtx 1080 run gta 5

rund wirh pain

[olive bronze]

i took a nap for over an hour and sarah was still working on the firefox

[brittle moon]

cant wait for the LTT PyroKitsune comic book to release! /j

[tulip hatch]

https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/

[frosty spire]

that would be great if i could do anything other than plug it in as a light source. when i say they bricked it, i mean, only the leds on the outside do anything when it gets plugged in, you can't access it at all

[tulip hatch]

F

[frosty spire]

yeah :/

[tulip hatch]

I got a TP-Link CPE210, works great. insane AP range. 5 km

allegedly. requires 2x CPE210
receiver & transmitter

50$

[frosty spire]

mines a AXE16000 Quad-Band Wi-Fi 6E Router, can;t remember the actual model number tho

we have a slightly higher network requirement at my house 😛 currently there are 102 clients connected to the network, 40 of those wired(my wife and i both have homelabs utilizing rackmounted servers)

[frosty spire]

LOL i spent the earlier part of the day today paddleboarding 😛 it's why i missed all but the last 10 minutes of Sarah's livestream

[random trout]

Rescue mode to the rescue! https://rog.asus.com/us/support/faq/1000814/
https://rog.asus.com/ca-en/networking/rog-rapture-gt-axe16000-model/helpdesk_download/

[frosty spire]

yeah, requires the router to actually accept dhcp connections. it literally only lights up. my computer will say it's not connected to anything, altho it does register the cable being plugged into the port, it says the cable isn't connected or the other device may be off 😛

that was the point that ASUS told me there was nothing they could do, and that even tho it was their own automatic update that bricked it, update failures aren't covered under warranty 😛

[random trout]

No, it does not? Unless we have a misunderstanding (or more likely, ASUS instructions are poorly written), you set your computer's IP locally, in Windows, then boot the router into its special recovery mode, then use their recovery software to push firmware to the router.

That said... I have vey little hope in ASUS, MSI, ACER, etc. ability to write good instructions, so this might not work at all.

[frosty spire]

i may have worded that wrong, so, whatever the recovery software connects to in the router doesn't talk back

it gives the error that the device may be offline or not connected

[random trout]

Ah, righto, that makes more sense - so either a) the router isn't actually going into recovery mode, or b) something else is preventing it from communicating with the computer.

[frosty spire]

yeah, they even tried to blame it on the network cables at one point, and i'm like "they work for everything BUT this router, and until today, they worked for it too" LOL

overall, it was an amazing failure of customer service

but, i switched over to TP-link stuff since that was what my switches have always been, and have had no problems, so of course now they are having issues with our government LOL

if it wasn't so stupid to just build a computer to be a router, i'm about at that point

[woeful crescent]

Honestly I miss Apple routers.. Those old AirPort base stations put other consumer gear to shame.. I had an a/b one, even had a phone jack for dialup fallover..

Then again if they did it now it would start at macmini price, and double for each additional lan port..

[tiny nimbus]

Uhhh good luck German Vodafone users https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/1hi54fx/i_just_got_permbanned_help/

[cursive tiger]

wow someone's job is really difficult at the moment lmao

[real stag]

someone boutta have to answer some uncomfortable questions at discord

[brittle moon]

im confused - is discord just banning germans?

[plain aurora]

the most organized driven bunch they could target?

https://tenor.com/view/mouse-cute-eyes-jittery-gif-9997336820839089932

[tiny nimbus]

Nothing confirmed that I can see but I’m hearing there was a popular German streamer who got banned from Discord for some reason or another and it might have led to an accidental subnet-wide IP ban

[crude sandal]

I'm going to guess it's a cgnat IP screwup

[coarse sail]

I find this insanely funny. I used to work for german vodafone customer service and I imagine the poor people that still work there will be yelled at by very angry gamers until discord fixes this (because customers will most definitely think it's vodafone's fault. They also think it's vodafones fault that their wi-fi is shit while their router is placed right behind their TV and consoles, because having it out in the open is ugly)

[tiny nimbus]

I toyed with the idea of shoving an unlimited data SIM card into my router, which would have been cheaper and probably faster than the ADSL service I’m on at the moment, but the dream of full fibre is still alive

[frozen agate]

gotta admit, going from ADSL to full fibre was eye opening, love my gig symmetric

[coarse sail]

Hah! I believe that when I see it. We've got fibre up until the distribution box in the basement of the apartment building but new cables into the apartments isn't even on the horizon yet

(and tbh, I wouldn't want it. Cable is great in my area and costs a fraction of what fibre would cost)

[frozen agate]

my old ISP, full fibre isnt even planned for the town im in, my current ISP did a full fibre install to an ONT in the garage free of charge, no setup fees, nothing, didnt even charge us for the first month of service either, it's great

[coarse sail]

but I can see how ADSL might be shitty enough to justify fibre

[coarse sail]

damn, that's a great deal

[frozen agate]

my lines are in a culvert next to an active high-capacity railway line, anytime it rains, the culvert floods and the packet loss goes up massively, anytime a train comes past it shakes the culvert and the packet loss goes up massively, you notice it a lot, even with gigabit download speeds, since I upload a lot too I needed faster upload speeds and my old ISP didnt offer them, hence the need to upgrade, saw the trial for this company, figured "screw it", and now a year later we just renewed our contract for even less than we paid last year

(also my new ISP doesnt do packet inspection so they don't complain about linux ISOs)

[coarse sail]

oh ffs, I think I'd have gone mental if I was in a situation like that. Glad it worked out for you with the new ISP!

[frozen agate]

I just about did go mental, trying to play FPS games with high packet loss every time a train went by was horrible lol

even sim games like ETS2 through TMP were horrible

[coarse sail]

The cable to my in-laws house is like 90% ripped, the technician telekom sent out was surprised that they even have some kind of connection that's good enough for streaming. But they won't do anything about it, because it's cheaper to install fibre than fix the old cable (which, from an economical standpoint, i totally get). Thing is, though, fibre isn't planned for that area of town yet. And there's no other ISP in that area

[frozen agate]

similar issue to what we had

[coarse sail]

why would they complain about linux isos?

[frozen agate]

luckily in the uk we have oversight bodies for that, and we threatened the old ISP

[frozen agate]

qbittorrent is a wonderful protocol, and I shall elaborate no further lol

[coarse sail]

maybe we have something similar in germany. But I guarantee, even if we had, the process would take at least the same amount of time it will take to have somebody install fibre

[coarse sail]

got it

[frozen agate]

ah yes, good old Deutsche Effizienz

See Also: Deutsche Bahn

[coarse sail]

don't get me started

[frozen agate]

haha, I don't need to, as a Brit I can complain about railways till the cows come home and still not need a breath lmao

[plain aurora]

Let me guess.
Paperwork and red tape, wrapped with layers of legalize

[frozen agate]

even worse, lol

NIMBYism....

Germany is basically the NIMBY capital of the world

See also: nuclear energy in Germany

[plain aurora]

Ahhhhh

We have that in upside down kiwi land too

[frozen agate]

yeah, so I keep hearing

[plain aurora]

We def had heaps of money to throw at a new flag design

[frozen agate]

wait, NZ got a new flag? or is it like a pending thing still?

[plain aurora]

No we voted to keep the OG one and paid 25mil to do so

[frozen agate]

ooh, I actually really like that flag

rip

[plain aurora]

Australia needs to change theirs 😉

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-a-hot-take-steve-terreberry-this-might-be-controversial-gif-4319274631307110999

[frozen agate]

yeah, y'all are both too similar, sorry for colonising

[coarse sail]

Exactly. Additionally, super old systems and lack of digitalization (e.g. the Finanzamt (tax agency) uses faxmachines for their in house communication)

[plain aurora]

I’ll happily take their food prices and selection

Our board band is still in parts on old phone lines

[frozen agate]

this sounds familiar

[coarse sail]

Because of bureaucracy when for example three ISPs need to work on their respective cables in the exact same spot they open up and close the road three times sometimes even using the same construction company

[plain aurora]

Tbh our internet and phone connections are so behind the rest of the world but the govt lets them keep overcharging

[frozen agate]

https://tenor.com/bmwsi.gif

[plain aurora]

All you need to do is just do food shopping. The govt has been saying since 2018 the food prices are too high. That’s all they have been doing, talking.

[frozen agate]

the mods watching this rn sweating to see where it's going to go lol

[plain aurora]

But yeah everywhere has problems lol that’s the whole story

[tiny nimbus]

I say “the dream is still alive” because I’ve spent three weeks trying to order full fibre and I’ve been gaslit and straight-up lied to by three separate telecom providers so far

[frozen agate]

rip that sucks but is also mildly hilarious

[tiny nimbus]

Local-Loop Unbundling seemed like such a good idea back in the day

[frozen agate]

Hi Jawa

Thanks discord for notifying me of that I guess lol

[odd grail]

I hate that damn feature lmao

[frozen agate]

Me too, lol

[woeful crescent]

I turned it off.. it didn't enable for me till I updated my mobile client..

So by that point enough people had bitched I knew where the setting was 😄

[tiny nimbus]

That setting annoyed me so much I went out of my way to opt out

How is this still a thing with YouTube https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/12/crypto-scammers-posing-as-real-brands-on-x-are-easily-hacking-youtubers/

[woeful crescent]

Not IT, but LMG Local, https://www.narcity.com/vancouver/canadian-city-worst-transit-commute-time-us-canada-not-toronto

"That adds up to one year and eight months spent riding TransLink, in the average Metro Vancouverite commuter's lifetime."

[plain aurora]

I think my city matches. Takes a hour from papakura to Auckland central and that’s not even from beginning to end.

[woeful crescent]

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-arc-b570-ships-one-month-ahead-of-launch-gamer-mods-drivers-to-make-it-work

[last light]

seems like hawk tuah girl finally talk tuah law firm and posted statement

https://x.com/HalieyWelchX/status/1870123827725840484?s=19

Haliey Welch (@HalieyWelchX) on X

I take this situation extremely seriously and want to address my fans, the investors who have been affected, and the broader community. I am fully cooperating with and am committed to assisting the legal team representing the individuals impacted, as well as to help uncover the

Twitter · Dec 20, 2024, 3:07 PM

[cursive tiger]

i could talk a lot about public private partnership

[cursive tiger]

in rush hour it takes like two hours from whenuapai

sometimes three

[plain aurora]

Well let’s just say I spent 2 and a half hours today traveling within Auckland

[brittle torrent]

when can i rename myself to claim number 69420 lol

[shrewd ridge]

Hey! Question, maybe a silly one: When is WAN show? Ive never managed to catch one as it starts, but was hoping to do so today. When does it usually start?

Nevermind I just went through the roles, saw theres one for WAN, will wait for a ping there 👍

[woeful crescent]

https://whenplane.com/

[shrewd ridge]

Good to know, thank you!

[woeful crescent]

Preshow starts on Floatplane and Twitch (and I think FB?) ,, youtube only starts when the actual show starts..

[brittle moon]

preshow is everywhere except youtube

[shrewd ridge]

Oh neat, good to know, thank you!

[tiny mauve]

I usually watch it on tiktok

[shrewd ridge]

has the preshow started yet or no?

[woeful crescent]

Preshow can be nice to catch if you can.. sometimes has some good stuff they won't say on live

[tiny mauve]

The preshow

[woeful crescent]

lol no

[tiny mauve]

Then I go to YouTube

[woeful crescent]

Only 9min late :p

WAY too early for them to start 😄

[shrewd ridge]

lmaooo

touche

[random trout]

[unborn pendant]

[woeful crescent]

Also if you keep whenplane up you can get an idea of when its gonna happen as it'll update when they add the thumbnail and such..

[shrewd ridge]

Neat ill keep it open then, thanks for the link!

[brittle moon]

usually they dont upload the thumbnail until a few minutes before they go live, so its a good indication of the show starting soon 🙂

I’ve Got 99 Problems - WAN Show December 20, 2024

youtube set for <t:1734744600:t>

[woeful crescent]

No preshow

I feel cheated!

[neat kiln]

that whenplane notification

[brittle moon]

there was a 1 minute preshow 😄

[brittle moon]

what about it?

[neat kiln]

Nothing. Just happy I get it now.
I don't have to constantly keep an eye for when it starts

[brittle moon]

ah yeah 🙂

[neat kiln]

I will never set up my phone with my PC.
I'm so close to moving away from windows entirely

God damn, me and my new xperia 1 V

[woeful crescent]

Wait he said preshow.. there was no preshow on Twitch o_0

Linus :"..not really tech news.." Luke :"Who cares?" .. YES.. \o/ Terry Fox \o/

Luke.exe has crashed

[neat kiln]

Let's see. Going to sign off now at 1 hour 12 minutes.

I'll finish up tomorrow

[brittle moon]

there was

it was only like a minute

1m 25s

[woeful crescent]

Ahh, missed it.. not that I really count something that short :p

[runic pasture]

metal screwdriver launch leak?

[woeful crescent]

I don't know what you're talking about ¬､¬

[pine kernel]

if someone is buying something and doesnt want to send a merch message send one asking when water bottles will be restocked

[woeful crescent]

They generally don't say even when asked

[vague oyster]

They make a pill for that

[olive bronze]

from what i've seen of linus watching wan and other videos, he seems so focused on aspects of the business at all times that i dont think i could ever be friends with him because i would feel like he was always elsewhere

[brittle torrent]

Well that was cool. Anyways

[wide creek]

anyone heard the end? 😂

[woeful crescent]

I want the cables.. but price is gonna dictate.. Simple fact is 90% of my USB Cables don't need to be high power or high bandwidth, even if they are longer runs..

[plain aurora]

Omgosh that explains why my pc has issues with sleep etc I have to keep a eye on stream

[plain aurora]

He might just be “on” when cameras are rolling and be completely diffident when they are off. I have key areas in my life where I’m hyper focused on key things then when I’m out I leave it behind

[spice oak]

Best part of today's wan show, the spider https://www.youtube.com/live/pF-1W-JxXSc?feature=shared&t=1525

[tiny mauve]

I wonder if the spider means he's now got 100 problems

[tulip hatch]

Help, Linus needs our dough, rn

[olive bronze]

Oh I get that. We've watched a lot of Linus, though, and I think I can tell when he's doing the oncamera personality. It feels like he never really relaxes. I think he'd have to retire from the company before he could really relax. And that would drive him nuts.

[plain aurora]

welcome to the life of ADD/ADHD.

[olive bronze]

lol

[plain aurora]

some are just like that

for me to actually relax, i have to do something

hence why i game

[olive bronze]

tbh he's so on on on all the time i question how long he can do this. i feel like he'll have to change careers at some point.

[plain aurora]

he can honestly just retire anytime and not worry about money for the rest of his life.

hes not doing it for the money, LMG is past that point.

[olive bronze]

i know but you know people when they retire they often cant do nothing. i feel like maybe he'll try to change jobs sometime in his 40s

[plain aurora]

he'll prob take a back seat somewhere within the company tbh

[olive bronze]

well if he changes jobs i think he'll stay in the same basic industry but won't actually "run a company"

[plain aurora]

we won't know till it happens

[olive bronze]

i wonder how long "tech youtuber" will be a thing at all, though. then again, people doubted the world wide web back in the 90s and its still around

[tight mauve]

wonder if the magalag video will be discussed next wan show

[woeful crescent]

Magalag?

[random trout]

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1593274-exposing-the-honey-influencer-scam-video-by-megalag/

[woeful crescent]

Interesting

[woeful crescent]

I would never have installed them cause basically I assumed much of what he found out in the video would be happening, and I don't like extensions like that in general farming my info.. but good on him finding it out and making it public.. and Boo on LMG for at least not having an open dialogue with him when he contacted them.. I get LMG might not have known just how much shady stuff was going on, but if thats why they weren't publicly called out on WANShow or something, which Linus has done to sponsors before, say so.. don't go silent..

[tacit pebble]

I tried it once, but literally didn't work for anything I used it for and decided I just dont need or like extensions besides the absolute essentials

I am 5 minutes in this video and this is absolutely insane. I would be astounded if Linus was not SEETHING over the behavior and I am not even a fraction of the way through the video.

[tulip hatch]

Didn't work for anything,
I assume Honey just have some american sites coupons. Not Europe/Swedish ones.

[tacit pebble]

I really did try a couple years ago, but even as an American, I don't think I got a single coupon code to work

[tulip hatch]

Rather use cashback websites(Honey gets your cashback surely instead with it installed, since cashback websites have no cashback if used 3rd party coupon in claimer)

[rare tartan]

Never saved much with Honey, either.

[main ginkgo]

i hope they discuss this on the wan show or smth

[woeful crescent]

I'd be shocked if they didn't.. The only time they really tend to dodge stuff is employment (which is more complex with what can be said in Canada vs US), and if theres legal issues at play..

[woeful crescent]

https://www.windowslatest.com/2024/12/22/asus-bombards-windows-11-with-christmas-exe-malware-like-christmas-wreath-banner/

[blissful pivot]

Who at ASUS thought this was a good idea…?

[woeful crescent]

The same people that think your mobo needs a rootkit to install their software into any system install by default.

[blissful pivot]

Gigabyte does the same thing, unfortunately

At least on my motherboard

[woeful crescent]

For all of MSI's flaws at least they don't.. you need to install their malware manually,!

[plain aurora]

what am i going to find out when i open my strix tomorrow? o.O

but yeah echo who thought this was a good idea

maybe a free Aura christmas theme for your keyboard and lights sure....

[woeful crescent]

I have an Asus GPU, no armory crate needed.. just their mobos and laptops that suffer that cancer

[plain aurora]

which sadly i own one of

and have been up to today, been happy with it

[woeful crescent]

Its not really that its "bad" (at least before this bullshit) but that it was bad precedent.. having the BIOS install shit into your system without your express permission..

And most of us saw shit like this coming down the road because of that lol

That or an exploit some actor can take advantage of..

[plain aurora]

I do like AC however this was crossing a line

[cunning aspen]

https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?si=E79T2RWVitF6PEOl

This should be talked about

If not allowed sorry

[regal wadi]

I'm watching it right now. It should spark some discussion. However, he mentioned that it's a three-part series, and I'm unsure if all the episodes will be available unless they're on his Patreon.

[lament badger]

It was in my list too and I installed honey years ago just to notice, that not a single coupon was working or there was simply none ... since I'm from europe I thought this was the reason ... but seeing this, I'm not surprised! Please talk about this!

[blissful pivot]

Same here. I've had Honey for years and not a single time did it save me any money, even when I was buying from US-based web shops.

[tiny nimbus]

I mean shout-out Colton for that forum post about dropping Honey as a sponsor but everyone’s basically shaming LMG for not going full main channel exposé on ‘em like MegaLag did

[fervent axle]

HI

[dreamy pilot]

This is honestly nuts. They presumably didn't know exactly how scummy Honey were, just that they were interfering with their affiliate links. Nobody was going to care if they released a video saying honey was stealing their money.

[restive rain]

people are a bit too drama pilled atm, I don't necessarily think LTT did anything wrong there

[finite lintel]

LMG are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It plays right into Honey (Paypals) hands.

Instead of shooting them, people are shooting the bystander LMG. WILD how this shiz works....

[spark plank]

They seem to have lust money from Honey stilling link from them, they clearly did not know they do that. He should do a video to suggest to all people to Remove Honey.

[finite lintel]

I don't think LMG need to do a whole video, MegaLag has done a fantastic piece here and it'd probably be better to promote that vid to create a larger discussion than to take people away from it.

But it definitely needs to become a larger conversation, even bigger than now. Far too many firms are taking the p*ss to line their pockets but not feed back into the economy.

[restive rain]

wonder if they will talk about this on wan https://www.dexerto.com/tech/discord-sued-over-nitro-subscription-being-too-difficult-to-cancel-3014388/

as a non lawyer it does not seem like the lawsuit has much grounds, it is not difficult in any means to cancel your nitro subscription.

[true bison]

Happy Festivus everyone!

[tender prism]

MegaLag was actually the one who made an argument in their video that LMG should know better and they should've made a public service announcement about it

[woeful crescent]

If LMG knew everything Megalag has reported so far, then I agree, LMG should have publicly ripped them a new one (providing not blocked by legal issues).. that said I doubt they knew the full scope.. probably they figured out that it would steal referral, likely assuming it only happened when it applied a coupon.. which while shady, at least isn't outside the scope of what one could consider reasonable.. Also we don't know what Honey was doing at the time, vs what they do now.. I assume Megalag's list of issues are current, but that doesn't mean Honey started out doing all of them.. for all we know when LMG originally vetted them and took them on, they did none of this.. Or maybe LMG was just smaller at the time and didn't look close enough/missed some things..

[brittle moon]

ltt isn’t really a drama channel. I’m sure they’ll probably bring it up on wan, but other than that I don’t see them talking about it much

[woeful crescent]

I mean WAN is where I expect it to come up, its where Linus has previously ripped at sponsors and such.. Anyone expecting now, or back then when they dropped the sponsor, a main channel video is I think a little delusional.. maybe if LTT knew everyone we know now I could maybe see a main channel video.. but that would be a cointoss at best.. its not really their thing.. being mentioned in a main channel video is more likely, like EK was..

[wicked shard]

Did you sit though the entire Megalag video? It was really rough to sit through, so I don't blame you if you didn't, but there is key information you only get at the end.

[woeful crescent]

I did, which part at the end? The fact theres more to come or one of the other shitty things they were doing?

[wicked shard]

The claimed refusal of LMG to answer questions about replacing Honey with Karma which does the same sort of sniping behavior.

I am taking that claim with a huge grain of salt because I want to believe in what Linus said in his apology video. But if what megalag was true then it taints the claim of LMG working to be completely transparent about how they choose to retain sponsorships.

[woeful crescent]

Are they still a sponder? Can't remember seeing them for a while.. were they doing that same stuff at the time lmg partnered with them? etc..

[wicked shard]

I could try researching how long Karma was doing it

Honey published their extension to the Firefox extensions site so we have a history of that extension

They put extensive logging into the extension so you can tell from the error message it would report back to Paypal that they were doing affiliate sniping going back to version 11 from Feb 2019.

[frosty spire]

happens with any system that has Armopury Crate installed, not just Asus OEM machines

[tender prism]

I think this may have happened before the GamersNexus video

[wicked shard]

The refusal to talk about Karma was recent

[tender prism]

I agree LTT isn't a drama channel and they probably didn't want to bring it up. I'm just saying that was MegaLag's argument that LTT should have thought about the other creators in the YouTube space and they should've brought it up

[wicked shard]

Honestly, I don't care how LTT/LMG ended up with Honey. My main focus would just get more information about choosing Karma after they found out about Honey. If they come completely clean, bad or good, that to me would be transparency and we just move on.

[tender prism]

Yeah that was the main argument against LTT by MegaLag. It's fine that LTT was caught in the crossfire but they should've informed other creators according to MegaLag

[wicked shard]

It would be nice if they edited Honey out of the previous videos but I don't know what LMG's contract obligations are with Honey.

[wicked shard]

Not only should they have given a heads up to others about what Honey was doing. But they also should have been on the look-out for other browser extensions to do the same thing.

Going with Karma as a sponsor feels like a "fool me once, shame on you but fool me twice ..."

[tender prism]

Tough luck for LTT. They're just shedding the GamersNexus drama and now right as the year is ending they get called out by a video which is probably going to trend the Internet. I think 5mil views in just over a day

[wicked shard]

Were they tho? Have they actually lost any true fans?

The nasty stuff seem to come from Twitter after GN was done and moved on. And I am not sure many of us paid attention to the twitter stuff. Most of us were talking about bread.

[tender prism]

What do you mean by true fans? It's probably better to look at viewership than trying to measure 'true fans'. But anyway I'm not sure. It has to be a big headache though

[wicked shard]

Ok, what was the viewership stats?

[tender prism]

It's on social blade. I didn't check but weren't they doing more views before

[wicked shard]

I honestly don't know, that is why I was asking

[tender prism]

I don't want to fake numbers so I'll just say I'm not sure either. The whole thing was a big headache to deal with so I don't think LTT would want to go through that again

[wicked shard]

I don't think this is that again

Again, I think not coming out ahead in answering questions about Karma is disappointing

[tender prism]

Yeah not saying it's going to be the same scale as it was a mere mention and not an entire video targeting them

[wicked shard]

But I don't think the pitch forks are coming out

[brittle moon]

im confused, why are yall still going on about this? isnt the only thing ltt not "responding" 2 seconds after some random person uploaded a video?

im sure theyll talk about it on wan, theres no need for them to "respond" to this right away

[tender prism]

Oh according to MegaLag's video, he reached out to LTT beforehand about it so it wasn't about creating a response video to the very recent video posted in dec 21. I don't expect a response video this soon either

[cunning aspen]

It is going to be talked about

Ltt said they would

[brittle moon]

just watched the video, i misunderstood what was going on.

basically they did reply, but gave a non-response, and people are understandably questioning that. hopefully theyll expand during wan

[turbid shoal]

just watched Megalag'ss video and Moist's reacction/ expansion video. curriouss what dll have to say

maybe even Colton or Nick hoppin in too?

[wicked shard]

likely assuming it only happened when it applied a coupon.. which while shady, at least isn't outside the scope of what one could consider reasonable
I am sorry but I really feel that I need to respond to this.

I still refer people to this LTT video because it does one of the best jobs of breaking down how HDMI cable quality can matter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFbJD6RE4EY

Let's say someone I refer to it follows two pieces of advise from the video. For the sake of the example they follow Linus' advise to install honey (still active in the video and video description despite LMG claiming it is not an active sponsorship) and then purchase a Monoprice 10 foot cable (and avoid buying a Monoprice 15 foot cable). At checkout Honey provides a HONEY10 coupon provided by the website selling the cable to get the customer 10% off.

For LTT's part, they spent $15,000 on a professional cable tester, spent a $1,000 on cables to test and explain in easy to understand terms what products might work best for the customer and why. It is LMG that did all the heavy lifting. Was the customer paying 90% instead of 100% going to make or break the sale at that point? Honey will never say that cable will have signal issues if you try to do 4K. It will never help you find a better product. It only returns the coupon code produced by the seller. I would claim Honey taking that affiliate commission away from Linus at that point goes way beyond just shady.

[tender prism]

Yes that was just my point. I don't think pitchforks should be raised at LTT and I agree because of how massive MegaLag's video got, they will address it on WAN or somewhere

[wicked shard]

Who is raising pitchforks?

I haven't seen anyone talk about any sort of boycott at all.

[frosty spire]

r

[wicked shard]

oh my gosh, the LTT forums has a forum moderator doing everything he possibly can to make the drama worse :(

I don't know what to say anymore

[frosty spire]

the entire drama can be summed up like this random LTT watcher, new or old "Oh noes, LTT didn't start every video for the last 3 years with 'We dropped honey, don't use em' what terrrible people/company, RAAWRandstuff!!!!!" meanwhile LTT is over here like "we stated at the time why we dropped em, that was 3 years ago"

how many people announce to every store they walk into that they once shoplifted as a kid? Right, cause it's over and done with.

[wicked shard]

Or Colton Potter made a promise on August 16, 2023 to communicate unresolved issues with sponsors via the LMG Sponsor Discussion Subforum but never actually posted that there that the sponsorship with Honey was terminated because they failed to reach a reasonable resolution.

[random trout]

They announced the end of their Honey partnership on March 1, 2022.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1415146-weekly-sponsorship-suggestioncomplaint-thread-feb-28-2022/#comment-15285519

[wicked shard]

It still remained promoted in past LTT videos and the video descriptions long after the promises to communicate better on August 2023.

If a sponsor never provides a resolution to the issues, just quietly dropping them while knowingly leaving it installed due to the past advice is not consistent with an apology video indicating there will be better accountability and transparency.

Once it is clear the sponsorship resulting in installing something that is actively doing sneaky undisclosed things, the only way to be consistent with accountability and transparency is to provide equal access (meaning a video just as it was a video sponsorship) such that the community members are fully informed to completely the life cycle of the advise either by uninstalling it or providing informed consent to the additional behavior.

[brittle moon]

im suprised they haven't mentioned this on wan show before. I did a quick search, and the only thing i can find on it from the wan show is two on-screen responses to merch messages from april 29th and july 15th:
https://whenplane.com/merch-messages/oGNrrZl-8Q4#oGNrrZl-8Q4.866
https://whenplane.com/merch-messages/fDblFRwSZNc#fDblFRwSZNc.475

[wicked shard]

Well, in the same August 2023 video, CEO Terren Tong talked about how they would get corrections published because the errors chip away at their credibility.

Linus saying Honey make sure no one gets ripped off should be considered an error. People are being ripped off by Honey. Providing better communication of the correction should be on the LTT channel itself since that is where the sponsorship appeared.

I want to believe in LMG and that this simply fell through the cracks but that they will work towards achieving what they promised on August 2023.

[olive bronze]

merry christmas eve, floaters

[junior drift]

Question to anyone that can help is there dates for whale LAN 2025?

[frozen agate]

there is not, you can see any updates about the next whalelan events on the whalelan website: https://www.whalelan.com which is currently locked behind a password, presumably because they're still working on it 🙂

[spice oak]

well this is sad 😦 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty6hDR2UskM

[frosty spire]

and that was several months AFTER they terminated the sponsorship right? so, again, where is the list of all your past mistakes that you keep updated so that anyone can read them?

[wicked shard]

Yes. I am not comfortable with the idea that they made a video claiming better communication and accountability while purposefully washing their hands of everyone that they influenced to install Honey.

The damages don't stop because you simply stop talking about it in future videos.

Those past videos are still up and it shouldn't be that hard to update the video description.

And those installations of Honey are still doing damage until you at least inform those you influenced.

If we are promoting that going through the LTT forums is the optimal way to get information out there instead of via YouTube and the YouTube description, then clearly LTT should also be able to set all past LTT video to hidden such they can only be found if you click links found on the LTT forums.

[frosty spire]

LOL yeah, it was all a big conspiracy! they were like "we're gonna drop this sponsor and tell people why, but somehow magically also diabolically and viciously not mention it at people every time we talk to them until the end of time!!! muahahaha!!!"

[wicked shard]

Or maybe priorities caused other things to organically be the focus and bringing this error in line with the new LMG error policy slipped through the cracks.

[frosty spire]

so again, i ask you, where is your itemized list of everything you've ever done wrong. I'm gonna need that before we continues this conversation. Otherwise, you are maliciously hiding things from me to hurt me.

oh, does that sound ridiculous? hmm

[wicked shard]

Yes. I never made a lengthy video claiming that I could and would do better and laid out a plan including a lengthy document on how errors will be fixed if even some audience members will be mislead.

Claiming that I did is just factually wrong.

However ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cTpTMl8kFY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAE5KoyFEUo

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zzZaU_k-oQC-t60nguOo2Xxbb-qGbZDHBqZA5ZibORw/pub

3. Medium Severity

    - The statement is incorrect, and a minority of the audience could be upset or misled, even if it doesn’t really affect the outcome of the product evaluation for the majority.
   

Action: Video replaced if possible according to YouTube policy, otherwise pinned comment and above-fold mention of the issue in the video description.

It takes a lot of guts for LMG to say they were wrong and indicate there needs to be changes to improve.

But then there has to be the follow through.

I can say for a fact that the complete list of MY own youtube channel gets wrong has a total number of itemized list entry of zero (because I have no videos posted and never did).

This isn't about being perfect or listing every single error.

This is about follow through on a commitment already stated.

I don't care that LTT sometimes makes errors. My expectation was never perfection. It is just that if the claim is now they are working towards better then just do that.

LTT forums doesn't have the same reach of YouTube descriptions, that is why LTT will never make all previous videos "hidden" on YouTube such that LTT forums is the only way to find them.

To then say corrections to inform everyone influenced to install Honey can be accomplished only via LTT forums would not match the reality.

I think when CEO Terren Tong says that the errors in videos chip away at the credibility of LTT, he is indicating that calling for getting corrections widely available is something he really feels is needed. If he wants my help in getting the chipping away to stop, I am willing to help. If I misread what he wants to accomplish, then he can correct me. But as I see it, the Medium Severity LMG Error Handling SOP hasn't been completed for this issue.

[frozen agate]

Counter opinion....

Maybe the new error policy doesn't apply to a sponsor they dropped years before they made said new policy.

I know it's quite a radical opinion, but maybe it is a valid thought to have

[restive rain]

tfw they cant go back and change how they do things in the past

[wicked shard]

Yeah, maybe they did make a tearful apology video about how they communicated but intended to imply they wash their hands of on-going damage from installations they promoted. This is a potential counter opinion.

I personally rather not be that cynical about their apology video. It is my belief that Terren, Colton and Linus were serious that they have to, and will, improve LMG as a whole. That the actions for a Medium Severity LMG Error of simply pinning a correction to the sponsorship section and updating the video description should be within the realm of reasonable given the heart felt statements of commitment both the apology and plan videos had.

Mostly I just want to continue to believe they didn't go into acting out two dramatic video responses just to make the community feel good with no intention of taking simple steps to make corrections to previous videos.

If the time has expired to correct those videos (again, just a pinned comment/video description change) then maybe they should delete them from youtube so that all of the content remaining better reflect the commitments that Terren Tong has committed LMG to.

[restive rain]

Fwiw they may be under contract obligations and are unable to do certain things to the past sponsor spots. Obviously neither of us know what their contracts could entail.

[wicked shard]

Terren Tong was very clear in his statement that they errors chip away at the credibility of LMG (this isn't an attack on LMG but what he actually said). There is two ways to make all the LMG YouTube videos consistent with the new quality policies of the CEO, to apply the corrections or remove the past videos completely.

[frozen agate]

A comment is reasonable, expecting a full video about it is definitely not. Additionally, LMG seem to try to avoid burning bridges where possible, and their quiet dropping of Honey could be one such example, leaving the option open to work together again in the future if the sponsor changes their ways and trys to actually do better

[wicked shard]

Yes, and quietly pick up Karma that does the same exact thing. Even a LTT forum moderator pointed out that is a bad look for LMG.

[frozen agate]

sometimes, you just do not know enough to make a reasonable judgement on what to do, and any non-LMG staff who are having their thoughts in this conversation here are in that group of people, hell, I imagine most LMG staff are also in that group

[wicked shard]

If there is a contract obligation that hurts LMG's stated quality/error handling commitments to the community then Colton Potter's promise to provide better communication, accountability and transparency becomes activated. He should be clearly stating in a follow up video to the apology video what went wrong with the contract this time that runs counter to their stated commitments to the community and how they will address that in future contracts.

[wicked shard]

Yes, I agree. But what value does Colton Potter's words have if he is also among that group? Why even indicate the buck stops with him when it comes to the handling of sponsorships and that he is dedicated to better communication?

I personally want to avoid any cynical take on the apology video. I want to take the entire thing at face value and believe the points made in the latest Honey scam video about LTT was because things fell through the crack but the corrections to LMG policies are still hard requirements which eventually do need to be enforced.

Look, if Terren or Colton or Linus want to tell me that I completely misread the apology video and my expectations are just too high, I will just walk away. But until then when Terren says these errors are chipping away at the credibility of LMG, I want to try to do my part to making the chipping away stop.

[frozen agate]

"Colton Potter's promise to provide better communication, accountability and transparency becomes activated"
yeah, no. That is just not how stuff like that works. but, you seem to be incapable of taking on other peoples points in this discussion, so it isn't worth the time to keep replying further. You have your opinion, others have theirs, at the end of the day, no matter what LMG does, it won't be enough in the eyes of someone, so, lets just allow them to make their own choice on how to handle this

[spice cairn]

so like... should i uninstall Honey.... ??

i only use it for price tracking anyways

[tender prism]

Man you guys are making a lot of assumptions about how LMG does things. Just watch as they release a video contradicting these assumptions and straight up apologizing for how they handled the Honey sponsor

[spice cairn]

is... is that a yes?

[spice cairn]

this is a bad faith argument and you know it. your making a comparison between one person's life vs an entire media company that has influence on millions of other people's lives

[restive rain]

As long as you don’t click any buttons I don’t think it changes your cookie

[spice cairn]

but the price tracking bit is fine right

or is there like better extensions for Firefox

[wicked shard]

I would use camelcamelcamel.com for price tracking instead of a Paypal browser extension

They have an extension but my advise would be to use the website instead

[spice cairn]

yeah thats not very convenient tho

i rather an extension

[frosty spire]

no, im pointing out how ridiculous it is to expect them to go back in time to fix a new wrinkle on a problem they already solved. i DO agree that a notation on older videos that it may have a sponsor they no longer deal with would be great, expecting them to go back and re-edit older videos to remove any content that may be in error is literally insane to ask. it costs money to have people go thru those videos and then edit them. Linus has pointed out in the past that the purpose of a company is to MAKE money. just as it would be insane to ask a person for a list of all their previous wrongdoings before talking to them.

[wicked shard]

I'm sorry about it not being convenient. I am just sharing what my advise would be.

[spice cairn]

i don't think anyone was saying to go back and re edit the videos

[spice cairn]

am pretty sure all anyone was ever asking was for a pinned comment and for the description to be edited, which is very doable.

[tender prism]

Didn't Linus say they would do that in his apology video or am I wrong here

[spice cairn]

they said moving forward

[wicked shard]

Are you talking about the statement Linus made about it not being worth it that his wife later apologized for and said the statement was completely incorrect?

[spice cairn]

but i wouldn't expect them to re edit a video from years ago before this all took effect

[frosty spire]

there's a LOT of "they should go back and edit everything, and why weren't they making sure we all knew about this, they should have been telling us this all along, and how DARE they RAwrified Raawerandstuff!" going on.

[spice cairn]

bru

the fuck you want from me

im just telling you the best course of action they should take and the one everyone here is talking about AND the one they said they'd do in there video. like at this point are you trying to miss the point or are you actually this dumb??

[frosty spire]

sanity? logic? reason? their commitment to do better came AFTER they already dropped this sponsor. in the movie announcer voice "In a world, where everything doesn't have to be drama, one company can make a statement and not apply it retroactively and no one loses their shit"

[spice cairn]

i can't tell

ok your just actually this stupid gotta yeah

im done talking with you goodbye fam

[frosty spire]

hey, i like insults instead of rational thought. thanks for labelling yourself as someone i have no interest to ever interact with 🙂

[wicked shard]

Again, regardless of if they consider it dropped for future videos, the installs based on the advise still remain and the past videos have had no pin comment or video description changes. This falls below the stated LMG Error Handling for Video Standard Operating Procedures policy.

[wicked shard]

Sorry, I have no insults to give you. I am just providing you what LMG indicated their commitments are for doing better.

In terms of of LMG being a profit based company that can't afford to make corrections, Yvonne Ho (CFO of LMG and wife of Linus) said this:

I can assure you that I've read the criticisms
that we weren't willing to spend $500 to test a product.
And as the one that manages the finance,
I can tell you that couldn't be further from the truth.
Linus made a clear and egregious judgment error
regarding retesting a product he felt was impractical.
That was wrong, and I've told him so.
He allowed his personal feelings on the matter to cloud his judgment.
And I want to stress that our organization is committed
to our ongoing investments in making our content better.
And we will do better as a team.

[frosty spire]

sorry for the rait for a reply, i was going over the transcript of the two videos you posted, just to make sure i hadn;t missed where they said they would be editing videos for when they stop using a sponsor. They did not. in fact the only retroactive thing they said they were gonna be doing was retesting hardware for accuracy, and going over videos for that. so to be upset at them for not already doing something they never said they were gonna do is disingenous at best.

[frosty spire]

it was sarcasm. I blocked them shortly after i posted that. if your argument devolves into insults, you've already lost.

[frosty spire]

yup, that was on a retest, not a re-edit of a video.

[wicked shard]

The request was clearly to re-edit the video and minimize the damage to a vendor with incorrect results

Go back to the GN video they are responding to (I am not going to repost it, you clearly know the one I am talking about)

[frosty spire]

you pointed out that you had never posted a video, and so me expecting you to have posted one about all your flaws was a wrong comparison. while i never said you were posting videos, or even mentioned anything about it, this is the same situation. retesting hardware before final editing and posting of a video is different than taking down an already posted video, editing it, then reuploading it as if it was a new video

which, since you use GN as a source for information, GN stated that that is what has to happen to edit an already posted video.

[wicked shard]

And Yvonne Ho responded to that request which was reiterated by members of the community

[wicked shard]

They seem to be implying that vetting should address the accuracy of sponsorship claims. But as they point out they won't always be perfect. That vetting didn't work out in this case and it resulted in errors in the video. There is a clearly established Standard Operating Procedure put into writing for that but so far it hasn't been followed.

[frosty spire]

the restesting that she and linus were talking about was preupload.

[frosty spire]

which was not stated to be applied retroactively

in fact, i believe they used the phrase "Going Forward" quite a lot

the other thing that many people aren't thinking about, because usually, if you've never had a sponsor you would have no clue, but a LOT of sponsor contracts specify that even if you decide to drop the relationship, you aren't allowed to disclose any business practices you may have learned, under threat of lawsuit

so while yes, LTT said "we dropped em cause they are shady" they may have been risking a lawsuit if they went any further

[tiny nimbus]

They went back and did an audit of every video that included LTT Labs data to fix mistakes or pull the videos if they couldn’t be fixed

[frosty spire]

and yet you can still find anker sponsor spots in older videos, and they dropped them too, among others whose spots are still in the videos cause they didn't go back and edit out the old sponsors after they were dropped. funny how no one is losing it about that, right?

[wicked shard]

You seem to be recontextualizing by not actually comparing the examples GN gave which what LTT's youtube channel actually has now. Several of the examples, LMG has either removed the video entirely or has re-edited the content that GN indicated was incorrect. So the behavior of LMG was to take retroactive action.

You are pushing me into a very uncomfortable area because I would like to refer to that specific GN video as little as possible. If you want to continue to claim there was nothing done retroactively then all I can say on this discord is you clearly aren't doing your homework. I can clearly show there was multiple retro-active edits but I am not going to show that here.

Regardless, expecting them to follow the stated Standard Operating Procedure to put a pinned comment and update the video description shouldn't be asking too much.

[frosty spire]

no, im pointing out that they have never removed a sponsor spot from a video. they have never said they would, they only said they would re-test things prior to upload, or make CORRECTIONS.

So, i ask you. was honey a sponsor? Correct. Did they drop honey? Correct. did they say they dropped honey? Correct.

so what is there, in their statement about going back to make corrections, about removing sponsor spots for sponsors they dropped?

and if it's there, why did no one call them on it when they droped Anker?

[wicked shard]

The problem with Anker was the nature of the vetting the credibility of Anker changed. I don't think LMG ever promoted the eufy cameras and stated the misleading vendor statements about that product in any of their sponsored videos.

[frosty spire]

it's not there, they didn't ever refer to sponsor spots, and they have never removed one. Very consistent with everything they have said in fact, because, you are recontextualizing a conversation about restesting hardware and trying to jam it into the hole of sponsor spots

[wicked shard]

The LMG Error Handling for Videos Standard Operating Procedure doesn't apply to the Anker sponsorship video segments if the claims that did make it into the video are ones that are valid.

[frosty spire]

and do you think tha tmaybe, they realized honey wasn't being honest and failed further vetting and that's why they dropped them?

cause im pretty sure thats what they said was happening when they dropped em

[wicked shard]

Oh, Colton Potter said as much back in March 2022 on the LTT forums. But no additional steps were taken after August 2023 to address the number of installations of Honey that resulted from that sponsorship was ever taken. The improved communication to make sure viewers aren't left in the dark wasn't really done. Most importantly, the LMG Error Handling for Video SOP policy document wasn't honored to address the errors in vendor claims.

[frosty spire]

again, in august of 2023, they didn't retroactively do something they never said they were gonna retroactively do

[wicked shard]

The damages due to the installations that occurred based on misleading information was not addressed. Again, hopefully because doing so fell through the crack.

[wicked shard]

Again, you are recontextualizing into a context which isn't true.

[frosty spire]

no, im not. they only stated about corrections to content they made

[wicked shard]

You will have to do your own homework about them having clearly taken retroactive action in accordance with the LMG Error Handling for Videos SOP.

[frosty spire]

yuou are completely warping that to fit sponsors, which were never mentioned, not part of the GN fiasco anyway(it was over hardware testing) and so you are inventing things for them to have said and not acted on, then getting mad at them for it

[wicked shard]

I am sorry, I can't share in your cynical closed view that the Honey misinformation was left without any comment pins and without video description changes on purpose by LMG because they just deemed it too old to make that simple correction.

[frosty spire]

if i had a cynbical view about this, i would tell you that LTT did it deliberatly to fuck over as many people as possible

[wicked shard]

I understand what you are trying to claim, I just can't make that leap into that dark an attitude toward LMG.

[frosty spire]

what i have is a rational view about it, that when involved in a scandal involving one thing, they never ever thought about a completely and totally unrelated other thing, made no mention of addressing that completely and totally unrelated other thing(both retroactively OR in the future, mind you) and so I don;t think they are in the wrong when they did not do anything about that completely unrelated thing in accordance with a policy stated after it happened, and about something else that was completely unrelated

[wicked shard]

You don't have to go to an extreme to be cynical. All you have to do is claim that Terren Tong would be perfectly fine with videos remaining on the LMG YouTube channel that don't live up to the quality standards the the LMG Error Handling for Videos SOP claims is being applied.

[frosty spire]

so, Teren is now responsible for things that happened before he was at the company

gotcha. i need to hire him and then bitch about the fact that in 98 i got arrested for something i didn't actually do

and he didnt fix it

[wicked shard]

Yes, that is how every company I have worked for has worked. For anything that remain as public facing material that is in the control of the company to modify or remove that the buck stops ultimately with the CEO.

It isn't in the past if it can be played publicly right now today.

It still reflects on the credibility that this CEO has stated needs fixing.

That is why the examples in the GN video got retroactively removed or modified. And why hopefully they can once again just honor the stated Error Handling policy.

[frosty spire]

i'v worked at several of the fortune 500 companies in america, two of them fortune 100, and several of them are talked about on LTT regularly, and have never had that to be the case. it would have made two of those companies a LOT more interesting tho to have the CEO have to make up for things that were still out there from previous screwups in the company prior to them being there

[wicked shard]

Wait, you wouldn't happen to be working for Paypal and just decide not to disclose that?

[frosty spire]

nope

[wicked shard]

Do you have any conflict of interest in incorrectly taking on such an aggressive stance that retroactive changes never were applied?

[frosty spire]

I've only ever worked for tech companies, two construction companies, a grocery store, and a couple restaurants

im incorrect that retroactive changes were never applied? isn't that why you are complaining? did i miss something?

are you sure you know what you are actually arguing with me about?

[wicked shard]

And if your grocery store sold a product which had a deadly strain of e.coli or salmonella, would you seriously just stop selling it and whatever is still in the fridge of your customers is "in the past" or would you try to save their lives and minimize the damages to their health?

[frosty spire]

who is recontextualizing now? thats a REEALLY huge leap across a lotta sharks

[wicked shard]

Ok then

Wow

[frosty spire]

you know that even tho quite a few scientific theories have been completely debunked over the years, libraries still have the books that were printed about them, right?

i mean hell, theres people today that firmly believe the earth is flat, cats notwithstanding

they dropped honey as a sponsor. said why. then they stopped talking about honey

that is a FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR cry from "we are selling something that is killing people, let's keep it on our shelves for more people to buy"

to use your VERY flawed grocery store analogy, they stopped selling the item, said they did, and pulled it from the shelves, but left the price tags up

and now, other stores are reporting they have found that same product to be infected, and everyone is burning down the first grocery store because the didn;t stand on the street corners screaming "Yer all gonna die!!!!!"

and of course, the public is now hanging the CEO of the grocery store chain cause he should have done something, but he wasn't even at the company when they quit selling it

so, to get back into reality land, one of the first things i learned about the internet, way back in the days of dialup, was that once something is on the internet, it's there forever. sure, they could remove the video, edit it, whatever. do you really think this ridiculous level of outrage wouldn't still be directed at them now that other youtubers have caught up to what they said years ago, because somehow, LTT didn't pull a superman and save us all with no consequences?

[wicked shard]

Ok, so now part always really confused me. How does changing the spin of a planet alter the direction of time?

[frosty spire]

and by the way, considering honey was stealing money from the youtubers by replacing their affiliate links, i have to ask, why is everyone so worked up about this? i get some "Honey sucks, don't use em" but put the pitchforks away, they didn't somehow reach into anyones wallet and steal money from them, they reduced the amount SOME people were payed. yeah it sucks, but LTT isn't actively helping them

[frosty spire]

i never got that either, i kind of thought it would cause veryone to go flying LOL

[wicked shard]

He isn't even in contact with the earth, he is just pushing the air fast enough that the air causes the rotation to change?

That is almost worse than saying laser eyes can rebuild the great wall of china

But how? Lasers don't do that!

[frosty spire]

*in a superman voice" "Hurriane Katrina? what a wimp!"

[frosty spire]

maybe the laser was actually just the targeting beam for his 3d printer eyes?

[wicked shard]

I am also concern that the next administration will mass deport Clark Kent for not entering through a valid port of entry

[frosty spire]

valid point

[wicked shard]

Can you imagine the crime rates after do that??

[frosty spire]

LOL probably about the same as if batman announced he was goin on vacation

[wicked shard]

Is batman a good guy?

[frosty spire]

depends on who ya ask to be fair

[wicked shard]

He and batgirl ... while she was dating Robin. So cringy!

[frosty spire]

must be after i stopped reading batman comics LOL

[tender prism]

Don't take too strong of a stance either way. There may be new information that comes out contradicting what you said or LTT may end up making a video talking about this that also contradicts your assumptions about their stances

"LTT didn't do anything wrong!"

A few days later...

"Hey Linus here again, we screwed up on this and we're sorry"

[wicked shard]

Have you ever notice we never see batman and Linus in the same room at the same time?

Btw, the topic is is burning a great deal hotter on the LTT forum than on discord

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1593274-exposing-the-honey-influencer-scam-video-by-megalag

[tiny nimbus]

I see the video’s gone over 7m views, good for MegaLag

[wicked shard]

he seems to have done his homework and has "good" presentation skills

Paypal never really came back from the management changes of being merged into ebay and then split off again

Now that PCI DSS audit compliance is common place, I am not sure Paypal provides any value that they used to and they have taken on behavior that is both any merchant and anti-consumer

[tender prism]

LTT probably needs to wait for MegaLag's part 2 as well. I think he's about to reveal more incriminating stuff

[wicked shard]

I would recommend getting in front of part 1 regardless of any theoretical part 2

Also, I think Part 2 is more about Paypal/Honey and less about influencers/LTT

They teased about talking about things that seem to involve merchants

What hurts the most is you can't build a business around using Paypal as 100% replacement for credit card processing. There are people that have been banned from Paypal without any stated reason other than a vague claim the TOS was violated and they also will do the same to merchants.

[tender prism]

My guess is that LTT knew about this but they were just not in the mood to get into this drama.

Also I don't think LTT anticipated being roped into this. I know they just had the GamersNexus drama and they promised to fix their processes but MegaLag really dived deep into forum threads.

I think LTT was caught with their pants down.

[wicked shard]

Yeah, I think the Error Handling SOP would have saved them a lot of headache

If the statement said is incorrect, it should not matter if it is part of the sponsored segment or not.

I don't think a significant portion of the audience switch to Honey just because of LTT

So the High Severity part of the policy probably doesn't apply

But i think this clearly fits under the Medium Severity part

Other things took higher priority and this slipped through the cracks and I think that is fine. But now it is on everyone's radar so just follow through on the policy statement that has been publishing in writing.

And if a contract doesn't make that possible, just be transparent as to how, why and what is being changed moving forward

[tender prism]

I am reading the forum thread you posted. Saw this post from a mod, I believe MegaLag's expectation was yes. You're a very influencial tech youtuber with 20mil subs. A video warning fans and other content creators was the expectation placed by MegaLag

[plain aurora]

and now the makers of honey have gone and made pie, which does the same thing.
Now i am going to double tripple check my extensions.

[opal crystal]

I don't think LTT had a responsibility to do a deep investigation into it themselves, but I think they should have at least tipped other people off in some public way anyway. like mentioning it in like a 2 minute wan show segment or something. that way someone else would have picked it up to investigate 2 years earlier. but the dumbest (though not malicious) thing was replacing that sponsor spot with karma that did the exact same thing

the forum post is full of horrible takes like "it only hurts LMG" - no, it hurts everyone who has affiliate links. LTT promoting it caused other influencers, even those who had never endorsed or even heard of honey, to also lose money. also Linus's own take comparing it to "an expose that chrome isn't the fastest browser" - confusing best effort (chrome not managing to be the fastest in every scenario) with clearly malicious intent (intentionally giving bad coupons when they are aware of better ones and advertise they give best ones)

[frosty spire]

imma end up watching all the wan shows from march of 2022 cause i remember linus mentioning the honey thing in that. as well as the post i put a screenshot of right above this comment. now, as to the Karma thing, they didn't follow the phrase "if a product is free YOU are the product" or even "No such thing as free money" or "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is", but to blast them because they didn't mommy everyone else and force the world to stop using honey is ridiculous

[opal crystal]

yea them not warning other people is basically a nothing burger. but still, switching to karma was dumb because that is basically terminating one sponsorship because the sponsor basically scammed them, and then replacing it with another one that scams them in exactly the same way - like wouldn't you check for that if you just got burned by that?

[frosty spire]

the worst part about the blowup is everyone going "BuT tHeY diDn'T tElL uS!!11!!!!111oneone!!!!" when people have been posting the receipts that, yes, indeed they did. it just happened that you didn;t see it

[frosty spire]

i mean, I would, but there's a lot of things i also wouldn't do that many many people don't even think once about, let alone twice. one of those is using something that is literally designed in such a way that it has to at the very least be using you for an information source to make money from

[woeful crescent]

Some people are just bitching for the sake of it.. others are just dissapointed that LMG didn't put them on blast vs just a comment on their own forums.. I think most of those with the pitchforks seem to think that everything Megalag laid out in his video, LMG knew off.. when theres no sign of that at all.. if all LMG thought Honey was doing was changing affiliate links when applying a coupon then ya, its a little scummy, but also well within the frame of stuff I can see being justified by them too.. so enough to end a sponsorship, not enough to get Linus to the point of making it the headline topic on a wanshow for him to put them on blast..

The only real fault in all of this is LMG seemingly stopping contact with megalag during the story, which in the video makes it sound bod, but could easily just be contact person is off for christmas or something.. I mean it would be a fairly silly since LMG must have known the story was coming once contacted.. nothing good comes out of leaving him with more questions :p

[opal crystal]

well it's not as simple as it looks. remember that honey steals the commission on all affiliate links, so it wasn't just them that were affected. if they caused people to install honey, it means all affiliate links that those people clicked on from other creators (even those who never had them as a sponsor) had honey steal the commission. so they did in fact cause financial harm to other creators too

[woeful crescent]

I can see the case that if they provide the service of giving you discounts then they are entitled to the affiliate referral.. though if thats the case they should clearly say that.. and if LMG thought this was only happening when they were applying actual coupons (ala providing a service) I can see LMG not making a big deal out of it at the time, beyond just saying "Nope, we're out.."

[opal crystal]

in the forum post they said they knew it took affiliate money even when no discounts were applied

[woeful crescent]

If so then I sit corrected.. I don't actually use the lmg forums..

[opal crystal]

this was shown in the video

[woeful crescent]

I must have missed that then.. so corrected I sits.

[opal crystal]

still, I don't think they had the obligation to make a big story out of it, but disclosing it somewhere where people may actually see it would have been nice. maybe they did, but I've yet to see these "receipts" people are talking about outside of the forum post itself, which clearly doesn't count since it's a post in some random discussion thread that was probably seen by like 50 people

[woeful crescent]

Obligted no.. Doesn't mean I can't be disappointed, given how Linus has gone on rants against sponsors doing stuff before, not to mention non-sponsors doing sketchy shit too. That said who knows if Linus even knew, and most of Linus rants either come out because its a headline news topic, or someone triggers it with a merch question..

Also possible that their contact had some wording preventing LMG from making disparaging comments about them, which basically means Linus can't talk about them on WANShow cause he can't help himself once triggered :p

[spark silo]

Not sure if other apps do it, but the Apple Podcasts app lets you view and search transcripts. That would probably help out a bit

[tardy fjord]

If you're disappointed in LMG not making a more public statement about dropping Honey because LMG did not agree with Honey's practices, how do you feel about the other content creators who promoted Honey? Other creators who did not do due diligence to discover Honey's behaviour or drop them because of it. Are you more or less disappointed in the other creators?

[opal crystal]

yea it's not really a big deal in the sense that there's an obligation, more that Linus has shown in the past that he cares about not having sketchy sponsors. he himself has created the situation that he's being held to a higher standard

[woeful crescent]

If they didn't know they didn't know.. most wouldn't even know how to find out.. it clearly wasn't public knowledge otherwise this Honey store wouldn't be news at all now, and ontop of that, we don't know when Honey started doing it, they could have been more on the up and up back when LMG first got them as a sponsor, and then in the 4-5 years got worse..

[opal crystal]

honestly, I'm disappointed in at least those who I thought would be intelligent enough to realize something is wrong there. a good example of a sensible reaction for example is Markiplier, who apparently had refused Honey sponsorship because it seemed fishy to him as there seemed to be no legitimate way for them to make money

[woeful crescent]

I mean what Honey is doing is something you actually need to lock for, on the surface its not overly apparent..

Now if any of these creators are STILL promoting Honey, then ya.. we need to chat :p

[opal crystal]

and when I saw the sponsor spots back then, my immediate reaction was that things don't add up so I'm not gonna use it. so all the content creators who took the sponsor money were either stupid, negligent or complicit

[woeful crescent]

I always just assumed "find the best" is always BS, cause it can only know what it knows, and also I don't want an extension tracking all my purchases and such.. cause if you're not paying for the product, then safe to assume your info IS the product.

[opal crystal]

I interpret "find the best" as "best effort". as in they don't intentionally do the opposite of what they claim to do

[tardy fjord]

"If they didn't know they didn't know"
You don't believe that creators have a responsibility to be aware of what it is they are promoting? You're okay with creators just blindly reading a script and cashing a check? If the company is scummy they get a pass for promoting them because "they didn't know"?

[opal crystal]

which is why Linus's comparison of the video to "expose that Chrome isn't the fastest browser" seems so dumb to me. even if it doesn't beat every browser on every page, Chrome isn't intentionally making everything load 3x slower. but honey is intentionally giving you bad coupons

[woeful crescent]

They are paid spokesmen.. also most of them wouldn't have the first clue about how to even begin to know about what Honey was doing behind the scenes.. If we block every sponsorship where a creator has FULL knowlage of the product and whats happening then theres no more sponsorships. I mean hell, EK sponsored LMG.. How come Linus didn't know about everything EK was doing? Same with Intel and their CPU's.. Its a deep rabbit hole.. on the surface Honey does what it says on the box and before this video, theres been no real drama about it.. so no, I don't hold creators to some godlike standard.

[opal crystal]

EK isn't an immediate blinking red flag of "too good to be true". neither is almost any other hardware manufacturer. it seems obvious that hardware manufacturers make money from selling hardware. but there is no obvious non-malicious business model for honey

plus a lot of those other things only started happening once the company was already established with a decent reputation

if your sponsor script says you should advertise it as "literally free money", you should know something is up

[wicked shard]

Of course LMG doesn't have an obligation to do anything. They don't even have an obligation to run a YouTube channel. This is less about obligations and more about consistency.

We have on video Linus saying that Billet Labs that their product deserved a video response that the product was bad because he considered it to not provide value to the customer. At the time he said that, it had already been pointed out that he was basing that on incorrectly performed testing of the product.

It can be shown that that Honey is a much more anti-value product than the Billet Labs was. It can also be shown that at the time Linus made that statement that LMG's Colton Potter had already posted to the LTT forums that LMG was aware of the anti-value of the product. Yet the glowing statements remain without pinned comment or video descript change for Honey on some hundred videos (I can say this because all you have to do to find them is google search site:youtube.com joinhoney.com/ltt).

[woeful crescent]

We don't know when Honey started doing this, we know what they are doing now, not if they were in 2017.. and again, on the surface, it does what it says.. finds coupons, applies them.. You need to know more than influence great stuff to look for what it was doing with affiliate links, and such.. stuff very few people have.. I wouldn't even expect Linus himself to have spotted this on his own..

[wicked shard]

The scope of the mishandling comparisons between Billets Labs and Honey are just so thick and completely goes against the integrity of the August 2023 apology video.

[opal crystal]

I saw the sponsor spots and immediately realized it is fishy. you don't need to know exactly what shady business model something has - if it seems to have no possible legitimate business model, that should be enough of a red flag to reject or at least investigate a bit

[wicked shard]

Between what I have found in the long list of LTT joinhoney videos, what I have uncovered from LMG before August 2023 and statement recently made by LTT forum moderates believe that LTT is functioning in good faith and the August 2023 video now come across as a smokescreen/whitewashing.

[woeful crescent]

Its rare that I don't see a sponsorshot and see red flags.. its advertising. And on the surface the business model was obvious to me (but incorrect, or at least not fully correct), that it was there to collect your information and aggregate it with others on purchasing habbits to sell to advertising companies..

My concern with Honey, and well a lot of extensions is just that..

[opal crystal]

so your argument is that if something immediately looks like it's really really bad, you should ignore that because even things that look good may be really really bad in disguise?

[woeful crescent]

Affiliate stealing never even entered my mind before the video.

[wicked shard]

But is your skill level/understanding the complete target audience for LTT videos?

It is one thing to say IT professionals should have known better and did their own research. It is another to say an YouTube channel dedicated to explaining things in ways that your grandmother could understand should be able to figure out there is red flags for Honey but Billet Labs was just getting unfairly railroaded.

[opal crystal]

it doesn't require IT knowledge to realize something is fishy if it promises you "literally free money"

[wicked shard]

If Linus could justify what he did to Billet Labs then there was more than enough to do a reasonable disclosure video about the behavior of Honey and Linus knew it.

[woeful crescent]

Ya I'm not going back to the Billet Labs thing.. I said my stuff back then about how shitty everything there was handled.. but to me it has nothing to do with this topic, and I don't feel the need to make it part of the story.

[wicked shard]

I think at this point we have to because everything about how LTT has handled Honey over the last year takes the credability of the apology completely off the table.

Once it is clear the apology and the Error Handling SOP document are smokescreen material, we are right back to square one regarding Billet Labs

[tardy fjord]

I think there is a legitimate business in aggregating coupon codes and earning money by earning affiliate commissions on sales. I don't think most people have an issue with Honey doing that. I think most people object to it overriding a previous affiliate code which people believe are more entitled to earn the commission for the sale, or applying the code when it did not provide the service (coupon codes).

[woeful crescent]

Except all of this happened before that. Honey was dropped before that.

[tender prism]

If LTT did warn people then I apologize for fanning these flames. MegaLag said they didn't. You probably want to go after him for falsely spreading misinformation

[woeful crescent]

So what LMG said they were going to do Going Forward has no impact on what they did in the past. Nowhere in the apology video did they say they were going to scan everything they ever did ever for any issue these new process had. Hence, Billet Labs and such has no relevance in this topic to me.

[wicked shard]

I think once Linus invested $15,000 on a professional HDMI cable tester and $1,000 to test the cables, it is unfair for any coupon code aggregator to claim they had any part in helping the customer find the product they are purchasing when it does nothing to warn the customer about flaws in the product or if there is a better product. They are literally just swooping in at the last minute to claim the entire commission when the decision process of which product to get was already completed.

[tender prism]

Wait for part 2 of MegaLag video. I don't know what's on it but there may be shady stuff of coupons costing businesses money without their knowledge or consent

[wicked shard]

Colton posted back in March 2022 in a sub-forum that most viewers NEVER seen an acknowledgement they ended the sponsorship with Honey for handling of affiliate links. And then in the same post that Karma has a sponsorship deal with LMG.

[opal crystal]

that's a bad way to put it, first of all he said is that he's disappointed that "they weren't more public with this discovery". and if he didn't point out any other place where LTT disclosed this, then it must have been in some place that you can't easily find with a search, as I have no reason to suspect he would intentionally want to make LTT look bad

[wicked shard]

Which was consistent with LMG policies for March 2022. But then in August 2023 he does all this flowerie language that we are ultimately his boss and he will communicate better about sponsorships and make sure we aren't in the dark. But then nothing... no follow up to improve communication and bring more LTT viewers out of the dark about the behavior of Honey.

[opal crystal]

to be fair, I wouldn't expect this to be applied to past sponsors they weren't working with anymore

[wicked shard]

Image you have a key employee that works under you, they apologize a year ago about mishandling a valued item and selling it when it wasn't even the company's to sell. He acknowledge you are his boss and he will communicate better with you to make sure you aren't in the dark about issues that have come up. Then yet another year later you discover he filed a report about an issue in a file cabinet that less than half of all people ever look in and put it in a sub-folder of the file cabinet that almost no one ever looks is and that report is about an issue that is completely counter to the claims the company made publicly multiple times.

At what point do you loose faith in that employee???

[wicked shard]

the LTT affiliate URL is still in the video description of some hundred videos TODAY

what is this about it being in the past?

Again, just do the google search and you can see them all still listed

they are still ACTIVELY referring viewers to use Honey regardless of if the collect money for doing so

and they are doing nothing to get informed consent from those that installed it such that they are fully aware of the behavior of Honey

but Billet Labs .... ohhhhh.... that deserved Linus in full satan mode!

not enough value to the customer

They are using CNET style our sponsors are forever perfect style policy behind the scenes while posting a public Error Handling policy document which doesn't match what they are actually doing

I think as soon as they posted that document in August 2023, it changed the nature of what their obligations should be considered to be

And the facts of the matter is they clearly didn't follow it

If they did, it wouldn't be trivial for me to pull up a list of all the LTT videos with video description using the LTT Honey affiliate link so I can publish a list of quotes from Linus misrepresenting how Honey behaves

Btw, on the LTT forum they are now calling Honey "the worst YouTube scam of all time." I don't think that is true, I think the Google adalyntics and TrueView ad scandal probably will be shown in court to have more damages than Honey. But I guess we will see.

[frosty spire]

if i used it, it would probably make life easier LOL thanks for letting me know there might be an easier way tho 🙂

[frosty spire]

this so much. like, how do you think a free extension of any kind makes money? either by harvesting your data in some way or doing something else even more shady. that's it. there's no secret society of philanthropists who are paying to give people free stuff.

[frosty spire]

the chrome part was a joke. it was obviously a joke. the problem is, he posted it online, where unless you put "IT"S A JOKE" i 72 point font with oscillating fluorescent colors and at least 3 underlines, everyone will try to read everything that gets posts in the most wrong way possible for maximum offense/deliberate misunderstanding. It's especially egregious since the VERY NEXT LINE starts with "In all seriousness though" which, to anyone face to face would INSTANTLY tell them it was a joke. but not online, oh no, it has to be beaten into the person with a dead fish attached to the end of a five year old and swung by a cat that has been given too many gum drops.

[frosty spire]

the year between them dropping honey and billet labs just doesn't exist to you. i'm thinking you must be a pand-dimensional creature who lives in all times simultaneously.

[opal crystal]

fair enough. I do expect him to handle this properly anyway, I just thought it might have been another one of his posts where he is commenting way too early before having informed himself about the topic

[frosty spire]

I'll just leave this here(again) for people, and point out that at no time has LTT ever spoken about correcting or editing sponsor spots. period. in any universe or hallucination.

what i think is truly funny, is that basically, the "mod that's making this worse!" on the forum has posted the same thing to people, repeatedly, and they are all so fired up about how much drama can they cause that they aren't paying attention to actual facts

the sheer amount of "they implied this" that's being invented on the forum is worse than a southern baptist convention trying to figure out what else they can ban people from doing if they just "read the bible right"

[wicked shard]

Because the referrals from LTT videos to Honey still exist today

When they stop referring in the video description and have a pinned comment they don't recommend Honey any longer then that is the point in which they have actually dropped Honey

What they are doing now is double talk

[frosty spire]

right, so they should just take down all of their videos with any sponsor they no longer use?

[wicked shard]

Ok, I will try again to state what the LMG Error Handling document requires them to do:
(1) Put a pinned comment that comes up during the sponsorship part of the video
(2) Update the video description

I have said NOTHING about taking down all the videos

If taking them down is how LTT chooses to handle it, then that is on them

[frosty spire]

but youi keepo trying to pin them for not doing something they never said they would do in the first place!

quit with that utterly bullshit part of your argument and quit trying to make it out like they are actively endorsing them to this day. it's completely false and you don't even believe it cause you can't argue it worth a shit

that's the issue with you drama llamas, you can't just say something is messed up and suggest a solution, you have to go deep into hallucination land with conspiracies and shit that never existed and it completely muddies the actual issue

they dropped honey, they stated publicly why they dropped honey. in the wake of other things that happened OVER A FUCKING YEAR LATER THAT WAS COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO SPONSORS, they made a statement to do better ABOUT THINGS COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO SPONSORS.

[wicked shard]

So LTT never said anything on this web page:
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1528247-ltt-video-error-handling-standard-operating-procedure-sop/

@frosty spire are you a fan of older black and white movies?

You ever see the movie Gaslight (1940)?

[frosty spire]

and what were the errors they were referring to?

cmon, what was the error?

did it involve a sponsor?

quick, cmon, its a really easy question

NO

[wicked shard]

"Honey will get you the best price"

"Honey will make sure no one gets ripped off"

[frosty spire]

so why, in the everloving fuck, would they go from an error/scandal about testing PRODUCTS, to checking/removing/updating old sponsor spots when they had more important things to do?

[wicked shard]

These were known already in 2022 to be in error

[frosty spire]

you do know the thing you keep posting about, over and over and over was posted over a year later, right

about a different subject, right

[wicked shard]

Listen very very carefully, I never said anything about removing. I only said what is consistent with their own select Error Handling policy document.

[frosty spire]

do you get mad at y9ur math teacher because he didn;t teach you world war 2 history?

[wicked shard]

The same exact Error Handling policy document you just gaslighted and claimed they never wrote

[frosty spire]

posted about product testing in videos, over a year after they dropped the sponsor

what about that simple concept is so hard to grasp?

[wicked shard]

"Dropped"

[frosty spire]

different subjects

[wicked shard]

So why is there still a hundred some videos that still refer in the video description?

How hard would it have been to update the video description?

[frosty spire]

why can i still go to 90's websites for companies that don't exist?

why spend the money to say something they already said?

[wicked shard]

Did they write an error handling document you are now going to claim never existed?

[frosty spire]

mountain, i would like you to meet molehill

[wicked shard]

@frosty spire are you still unable to find the LMG Error Handling document you claim they never wrote?

[frosty spire]

ok, so now you are inventing things i never said and trying to use them against me

[frosty spire]

i never claimed they didn't write it, you are a damn liar

[wicked shard]

^ here

Right here is where you said it

[frosty spire]

Reading comprehension is your friend

try again

try hjarder

[wicked shard]

but youi keepo trying to pin them for not doing something they never said they would do in the first place!

[frosty spire]

cmon, read it again

yeah, they never said they would remove sponsor spots or update things based on sponsor spots

still as true now as when i said it before

[wicked shard]

I never said anything about removing the spot

They said they would correct errors

[frosty spire]

i don't know what drugs you are on that you decided that meant they didn;t write the document that i have repeatedly referred to as existing, but you need help

[wicked shard]

The statements were in error

[wicked shard]

Vitamin D

[frosty spire]

yours is obviously spiked

[wicked shard]

Yes. Ok. Are you able to find the Error Handling document yet?

[frosty spire]

but do keep trying to tell me i said things i didn't. go ahead

[frosty spire]

i'm gonna ask this as nicely as i possibly can't. Are you fucking stupid or is this like a day job for you?

[wicked shard]

as [you] possibly can't

uh... o.k.

Anyways, are you able to find the Error Handling document yet?

[frosty spire]

are you able to discern reality from fantasy? no? ok

sorry folks, that guy is so stupid calling him a complete moron would be insulting them

[wicked shard]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-gif-5800488

[wicked shard]

Yes, ok. I sympathize with your frustration. Can we get back on path? Are you able to find the Error Handling document yet?

Can you scroll down to the "Medium Severity" section of the document and read from there?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zzZaU_k-oQC-t60nguOo2Xxbb-qGbZDHBqZA5ZibORw/pub

^ this document that you can find by going to this page:
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1528247-ltt-video-error-handling-standard-operating-procedure-sop/

[frosty spire]

yua mean this part? 3. Medium Severity

    - The statement is incorrect, and a minority of the audience could be upset or misled, even if it doesn’t really affect the outcome of the product evaluation for the majority.

    - eg. The host says, “This GPU has AMD’s AMF video encoder, which is basically the same as NVIDIA’s NVENC,” but while the stated functionality is the same, NVENC offers better image quality, which could be important to a small minority of buyers.

EG means "Example Given" note that it is about a PRODUCT not a SPONSOR.

again

repeatedly

[wicked shard]

A sponsor is still a product in this case

[frosty spire]

i know you don;t get it yet, i'll find a 5 year old to explain it for you

[wicked shard]

The misleading statement are about Honey, a product

[frosty spire]

when did LTT make honey?

[wicked shard]

But more importantly, there is nothing about removing the video for Medium Severity

[wraith yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-stupid-brainlet-wojak-meme-gif-17170021

[frosty spire]

when did they sell it? Honey was a sponsor. You keep trying to conflate a sponsor with something else

do you actually know what a sponsor is?

[frosty spire]

next fucking line in medioum severity is Action: Video replaced if possible according to YouTube policy,

[wicked shard]

LTT is still actively referring the community to join Honey without any amendment to reflect knowing the statements are incorrect. That is not "dropped" and that is not in the "past." It is right now.

[wicked shard]

I don't expect it to be *possible to replace a hundred videos

They still supply additional actions when that isn't possible

[frosty spire]

so not only are you too stupid to understand that i repeatedly pointed this out earlier, and even said that the document was posted over a year after they dropped honey as a sponsor, you didn't even bother to read it completely so you didn't just make yourself look like a troglodyte with brain damage in your attempt to look smart

[frosty spire]

shjow me a video posted since they said they dropped them as a sponsor

[wicked shard]

all of the hundred some video I found are still available unamended since they claim to have dropped the sponsor

[woeful crescent]

https://xkcd.com/386/

xkcd: Duty Calls

What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!

[wicked shard]

xkcd is funny :)

good pick

[frosty spire]

no video? hmm, so now are you gonna tell me that libraries are actively pushing debunked science theories because they still have books that talk about them?

[frosty spire]

the sad thing is, if he ever got his head out of whatever drugs he's using, he would realize that i have never once argued that it couldn't have been handled better, i have simply said that they publicly did in fact state that they dropped honey, quit making videos using them as a sponsor, and publicly stated why they dropped them as a sponsor

[wicked shard]

if the library is still algorithmically highlighting debunked science theories as a recently selected book for people to read without any amendment given at the time of promoting it, then yes I would say that library is actively pushing debunked science theories

[frosty spire]

and they did not, in any way, when the billet labs and gn thing happend, say they were gonna do anything about sponsors retroactively

[frosty spire]

so now they control youtubes algorithm. gotcha. did they also shoot jfk and are the people who disappeared jimmy hoffa?

[wicked shard]

My library has a table of books promoted by the library staff that members should read, I have never seen them select one yet that does promote debunked science theories. If that ever happens, I will let you know.

[wicked shard]

They control the ability to honor their own Error Handling Strandard Operating Procedure document

[frosty spire]

lets see how far down the rabbit hole you are, im actually interested in what you think of as reality at this point

[wicked shard]

The same Error Handling document you just read from

[frosty spire]

i refer you to that document itself. where does it mention sponsors

(it doesn't. not once.)

[wicked shard]

It mentions errors in a video. It makes no distiction on if the error is part of a sponsorship or not.

There is no stated limitation of scope

[frosty spire]

it specifically calls out errors in product testing as an example!!!!

holy fucking god can you not read the damn thing you are trying to use as a basis for your hallucination?

[wicked shard]

That is an example of one type of error. That is not a declared limitation of scope.

[frosty spire]

• eg. The host says, “One of DisplayPort’s main advantages over HDMI is its higher bandwidth,” but this is only true when comparing certain generations of the standards. HDMI 2.1, for example, has much higher bandwidth than DP 1.1.

• eg. The host says, “This monitor features moderate pixel response times and contrast because it uses an IPS panel”, but the panel manufacturer is actually AUO, rather than LG, so it’s not an IPS panel - a term which is trademarked by LG - but rather an IPS-type or IPS-like panel.

• eg. The host says, “This GPU has AMD’s AMF video encoder, which is basically the same as NVIDIA’s NVENC,” but while the stated functionality is the same, NVENC offers better image quality, which could be important to a small minority of buyers.\

[wicked shard]

At what point does it say the document is limited to errors outside of the scope of sponsorship ads?

[frosty spire]

E.g. A bar on a histogram is shorter than it needs to be and in the wrong position relative to the others because the data underlying the graph is incorrect.

E.g. a graph’s underlying data is correct, but the graph title, axis label, or data label is erroneous.

[wicked shard]

You actually already answer it, the document never brings up a limitation regarding sponsorship errors being out of scope.

[frosty spire]

at what point does it ever even imply that the scope would ever include sponsors?

sponsors are not products

[wicked shard]

When they introduced the document in "The Plan" video

[frosty spire]

unless they have a webpage where they are selling Secret Labs the company somewhere, that's not a product

[frosty spire]

holy shit, look at that, that goalpost has a motor!

[wicked shard]

They clearly stated as "The Plan" that errors in LMG videos will be corrected

[frosty spire]

ABOUT PRODUCTS

Again, they have never attempted to sell the company that makes honey

it was not, and never has been a product for LTT

[wicked shard]

The Honey extension is the product and the claims in the videos contain errors. "Here's the plan" and the LMG Error Handling SOP indicate those errors will be corrected in accordance with severity.

This is a really straight forward concept

[frosty spire]

LTT was paid to advertise the honey extension, that is a sponsorship, not a product

how you can not grasp this simple concept is beyond me

[wicked shard]

Hey Gemini, is Honey extension a product:

Yes, the "Honey extension" is considered a product - it's a free browser extension owned by PayPal that automatically searches for and applies coupon codes when you shop online, essentially functioning as a tool to help users save money while shopping on various websites; it's often referred to as a "money-saving tool.".

Yeah, I don't seem to be the only one

[frosty spire]

now, ask it if its a product of LTT

i do believe that honey is made by a different company

which would make ti that company's product, not LTT's

[wicked shard]

Is any of the example you gave in the Error Handling SOP a product of LTT?

[frosty spire]

unless sponsorship somehow transfers ownership in your universe?

[frosty spire]

ya gotta be getting paid to be this stupid, right?

[wicked shard]

Let's start with you example here:
Gemini, is DisplayPort a product of LTT?
Nope.

Gemini, is HDMI a product of LTT?
Nope.

[wicked shard]

Should we move on to this one?

Hey Gemini, is IPS panel a product of LTT?
Nope.

[wicked shard]

Now we should move on to this one?

[frosty spire]

oh my deer lord, may his antlers educate you someday

[wicked shard]

Hey Gemini, is AMD's AMF video encoder a product of LTT?
Nope.

[frosty spire]

at what point did LTT ever do a review video where they tested honey against say, a video card?

[wicked shard]

Hey Gemini, is Nvidia's nvenc a LTT product?
Nope.

[frosty spire]

a hard drive?

a monitor

no?

so in a review video about a physical item, they messed up, right?

[wicked shard]

Seems like from the examples you selected to highlight that being a LTT product or not doesn't have any baring on if the LMG Error Handling SOP applies

[frosty spire]

and there was a "scandal" when GN blasted them about the video about the physical item, right?

[wicked shard]

GN blasted them for A LOT of things, you sure you want to go here?

[frosty spire]

and the posted a document talking about how they were going to be handling videos about physical items from then on, and what they would do about errors about the physical items in videos that had been preveiously posted, yes?

when was honey ever a physical item?

when were any of their example ever about statements made about anything other than a physical item?

[wicked shard]

When was charts about cooling a physical item?

[frosty spire]

stay on track here, we are talking about a specific video. turn your goalposts off

[wicked shard]

Yes, I will for you go through all the non-physical items that GN brought up in their specific video

[frosty spire]

so, when every example they give is about information relating to a physical item, what makes you suddenly jump from that ocean into the pool of sponsors, which are companies that pay to advertise in videos about things other than themselves?

im talking about LTT here

i really couldn't give a fuck less what GN had to say, since they have literally zero control over anything LTT does

[wicked shard]

Except not every example gave was a physical item and LTT fixed those error related to non-physical items that GN brought up

[frosty spire]

you kept bringing up the SOP document, over and over and over. even tried to tell me i somehow had said it didn't exist after quoting from it. now you wanna run away from that most holy(to you) of texts? and use something else? nope

[wicked shard]

I mean, other than seeming to be the key motivator for LTT claiming they have put changes into place to gets these errors corrected

[frosty spire]

your entire argument is that LTT somehow deliberately scammed people. yet everything you try to say to back that up not only has nothing to do with that, i and other people have posted here and other places on the internet proof that they did in fact say publicly that it was a bad thing and that they weren't involved in them.

[wicked shard]

You are of course correct in saying GN has zero direct control over anything LTT does

[wicked shard]

No, it is not that at all

[frosty spire]

ok, i see we are back in hallucination land again

[wicked shard]

My entire arugment is LTT failed to honor the Error Handling SOP which was supposed to prevent of from ending up at this point

[frosty spire]

LTT is a privately owned company. no one from GN owns any part of, or even works at LTT

[wicked shard]

Yes, I agree with that

LMG got to choose the wording of teh Error Handling SOP completely on their own

[frosty spire]

they have ZERO zilch zip nada fucking no control over anything LTT does

[brazen bridge]

How i interpret the document personally "taking my LMG Moderator hat off - **Not **speaking on behalf of LMG" Sponsorships are similar to a commercial. They are not actually part of the video content being discussed. The LMG Error Handling document is designed for & in regards to the main topic of the video itself. Similar to how news channel will issue statements they mispoke during a show. But they wont redact something about the fake info about spray on hair for bald spots that was aired during a commercial. Now it may not say say that specifically but honestly it looks as tho thats how its intended from my eyes.
This is only a 2 page doc.

people can interpret things SOOO many ways what you see is what you get.
I do I hate to intervene but could we kindly drop this conversation and move on, constructive discussion and criticism is always encouraged but lets keep things civil.

[frosty spire]

sorry, drives me nuts when people argue in obviously bad faith. if i went over the line i aplogogize to well, everyone but fluke

Think i will just go play some Pantheon 🙂

[wicked shard]

Then the sales pitch of the "What do we do now?" video is even more misleading. They even bring on Colton Potter to discuss sponsorships, the need for accountability, the need for transparency and the need to make sure the community is not left in the dark about sponsorship issues.

Within the context of "What do we do now?" and "Here's the plan." which introduce the LMG Error Handling SOP, it is made very clear that sponsorships is something they need to improve on handling.

Please take the time at some point to go back and watch those two videos again.

LMG's handling of Honey that the referrals can continue but still consider the issue "dropped" is not keeping with Terren Tong saying these error chip away at the credability of LTT.

All I am asking for is the solution they already stated as being the plan.

[wicked shard]

Oh, that isn't on the Steam sale yet. :( May during the spring or summer sale.

Have fun!

[wicked shard]

I think everyone is frustrated in how this issue got disclosed. Again, I sympathize with your frustration. I just can't meet you on your perspective.

[brazen bridge]

I think you are looking at two different things friend. The document referenced again** in my opinion** is about one thing. "maybe they need to create or already have another about dealing with sponserships. But that specific document, how i read it is how being accountable for being more accurate with data within the videos. Im sure they are working on things. I whole heartedly believe LMG always means well. But this isn't the platform to demand solutions, nor will we get one right now. The bigger companies get unfortunately the longer things can take to get plans implemented,

[frosty spire]

its in early access, so no sale yet

[wicked shard]

As far as I see it, if they had no written policy improvement to be applied to sponsorships, they shouldn't have brought it up in the "What do we do now?" video as if they would be supplying a solution to that yet. It should been clear that was still an itch needing scratching.

[brazen bridge]

nobody is perfect

[wicked shard]

I get bigger companies can take longer but it has been a year since the August 2023 improvements. To discover we are still back at square zero for improving policy is hard to take.

[wicked shard]

I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I just expect if they are going to say improvement will be part of their apology then that will set my expectations.

When I accept that apology, I'm doing it on the basis that improvements are already being worked on back in August 2023. Not if the issue comes up again.

And I don't expect the improvement to be perfect either

I can accept there will be the need to continue to refine

[brazen bridge]

Def early access but they sure do want the sale

[wicked shard]

But don't see anything having been done over the last year to pro-actively address this ahead of the video.

I feel earlier access should be cheaper, you are funding an incomplete game, potentially providing feedback during the development and risking that the game will never be completed.

I'm not judging anyone that wants to play it right away, but for me the $40 USD is too steep. :(

I wish them luck with entering the MMORPG space!

That seems like a rough space to try to develop for.

[brazen bridge]

I dont mind early access, Satisfactory for example has been great. As long as you realize the risk im fine with it. Demo's are a great way to judge too before spending the money.

[wicked shard]

They are hitting the ground running with Mostly Positive reviews.

[frosty spire]

LOL i backed em like 4 years ago simply due to it being Brad McQuaids brainchild

it's VERY EQ1 like, but with some really cool QOL improvements. totally playable right now, but still has some things to be added in, theres at least one class and a couple races missing, and only a little bit of the world is accessible, but what is there is fantastic. but it is absolutely old school "we aren't holding your hand, figure it out" and "don't die, you can lose levels"

[wicked shard]

Yeah, when there is a specific name attached that you know, I can see doing it then.

[frosty spire]

yeah, he was the primary vision behind EQ1 as well, which was the first MMO that ate my life entirely 🙂 all the ones that came before it were seriously lacking in many departments

[wicked shard]

Reentry was supposed to be released in fall of 2018. It is still in early access and still seems to be stagnating.

[frosty spire]

don't think i ever heard of it

I'll hafta look it up

[wicked shard]

And the entire KSP 2 team has been fired

I keep wish listing games that will forever be in early access hell :(

[frosty spire]

i find it very strange the amount of fantasy and military scifi games, but space flight games of any type are VERY few and far between, especially any mmos

i mean, people still talk about decent and Jumpgate, and those are old enough to drink at this point

[wicked shard]

Descent 3 was the perfect FPS

Wing Commander had a story line that was ahead of it's time

Except the movie, the movie was poop

If you are looking for something relaxing, try Osmos

[frosty spire]

LOL i thought matthew lillard was awesome in that, but i like cheesey movies

my wife says i have an unnatural addiction to B rated scif movies

[wicked shard]

the script and the directing are horrible

[frosty spire]

absolutely

[wicked shard]

it should be MST3k'd

[frosty spire]

if you thin Wing Commander was bad, i invite you to watch Space Truckers

it's free to watch if ya have prime video

[wicked shard]

Ok, I will consider it

[tardy fjord]

Matthew Lillard is awesome in everything

[frosty spire]

i feel like this is an objective fact

[tardy fjord]

I still can't believe Linus refuses to watch Hackers.

Every TV review video should use Hackers as test footage, just to make Linus watch it

[frosty spire]

i genuinely think he doesn't get that that movie didn't actually take itself seriously

[wicked shard]

You are trying to push him to watch a movie about Hackers on roller blades?

Yeah, that sounds like a tough sell

[frosty spire]

i have to say, the movie i can't believe took itself as seriously as it did was C.H.U.D. 😛

[wicked shard]

The best scene is Matthew Lillard quizzing the newbie on the different books/manuals

At work I would refer to solving a problem as "hacking the gibson"

[frosty spire]

those were (mostly) actual books too, which i thought was really funny

[wicked shard]

they were all actual books

[frosty spire]

really? i thought one was made up

[wicked shard]

which one?

[frosty spire]

gimme a sec, gotta find a list of em so i can remember LOL

[wicked shard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U9MI0u2VIE

[frosty spire]

huh, i totally remembered another book that isn't in that scene for some reason. mandela effect in the house

[wicked shard]

It is unlikely they actually had a red book

but the dod orange book standard is real, the paul norton in a pink shirt book is real, the BSD beastie book is real, the dragon compiler design book is what you give a CS major student you hate :P

[frosty spire]

i actrually have the pink shirt guy book LOL

[wicked shard]

yeah, I had one

it wasn't that good

[frosty spire]

nope, you certainly wouldn't use it for hacking anything

i think my "Dummies Guide to Dos 5.0" would be more useful LOL

[wicked shard]

I liked Undocumented DOS best

which included how to hook into a terminate and stay resident interrupt to keep a program running in the background

[frosty spire]

Most of my older stuff that isn't in cases. I've been in tech a while LOL

[wicked shard]

Applied Cryptography came out in 1994 and Hackers was released in 1995 but still didn't include it :(

[frosty spire]

i have a digital copy of that 🙂 i downsized a few years ago by getting digital copies of a lot of the books i owned. made a pretty good amount of money from people who really like the older books

[wicked shard]

A Perl book that is neither a camel or a llama? :P

[frosty spire]

yeah, i think its a sams teach yourself book

[wicked shard]

I got the perfect book for you digital collection!

https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf

[frosty spire]

one of my jobs was microarchitectur research, i had a LOT of time while things rendered or circuits verified, so i basically learned as much as i could find to self teach

[wicked shard]

^ this pdf is perfectly legal

it was uploaded by the author

the Dennis Ritchie anti-forward is amazing

[frosty spire]

i have it 🙂 i wanna say i came across it in a 2600 magazine at some point

[wicked shard]

You have the original with the barf bag in the back?

[frosty spire]

i think imma have to get a new keyboard, i am just not getting used to the key spacing on this thing

[wicked shard]

I have been using a keychron

it has been solid

[frosty spire]

yeah, i have most of the 2600s in original print, between my brother and i we got a lot of em

[wicked shard]

I met one of the key people from 2600 at defcon once

he was different

defcon has so sold out :(

[frosty spire]

i like an alice layout, but ive been trying to get used to the standard keyboard layout, and it just isnt happening, probably gonna get the Q13 pro from them

i have missed the last few defcons due to health issues, but at one point i had personal invites to attend every year due to one of the jobs i had

put me in the right room with the right people by accident and we all played the same game at the time

[wicked shard]

so not the Q10?

[frosty spire]

nahh, i use the Ten key too much

[wicked shard]

8bitdo make a standalone ten key

if your computer is off, the ten key still works as a calculator

[frosty spire]

true, but then that's another connection i need, already have 2 flightsticks, throttle(sometimes) pedals, and a couple MFDs to deal with 🙂 less is more

[wicked shard]

logitech flightstick?

[frosty spire]

VKB gladiators

[wicked shard]

for x-plane?

[frosty spire]

i think i might have an old dos logitech flightstick hooked up to one of my old systems. it might be a knockoff tho LOL

[frosty spire]

Falcon 4.0 and X4 right now, i tried Elite, but the speed limits just make that game no fun

i keep trying DCS world, but i just cant get into it

[wicked shard]

I have a 16 port USB 3.0 hub with external power cord

[frosty spire]

i so far have managed to only need an 8 port, but its 3.0 and powered

gotta keep the wife happy and not buy ALL the toys 🙂

not that it's all that hard, she's actually higher level than i am in Pantheon right now

[wicked shard]

you ever get into VATSIM?

[frosty spire]

nope, never even heard of it LOL

[wicked shard]

https://vatsim.net/

[frosty spire]

i got into sims by way of Mechwarrior on a tandy 1000 back in the 80s LOL

[wicked shard]

this is supposed to provide a realistic air traffic control

[frosty spire]

so the stuff i've played is kinda all over the place and sometimes really oddly niche

[wicked shard]

1989 release on DOS?

I remember it

[frosty spire]

yeah

i have the floppies 🙂

well, i had the 3.5 version so floppy

[wicked shard]

Did you ever play in any of the mech pods at dave and busters?

[frosty spire]

Two discs apparently 🙂

[wicked shard]

oh lemmings

[frosty spire]

not at dave and busters, but a place called Area 51 had em near me so i went there

[frosty spire]

ya know they have all been ported to phone right? and still as awesome as they were when they got released 🙂

those games have aged really well in fact, except for the windows 95 one that was semi 3d

[wicked shard]

I never heard of the game studio Exient before

[frosty spire]

you can't actually read it, but the first game on the right is the really unfortunate DOS port of Megaman 1

[wicked shard]

I remember DeathTrack

[frosty spire]

i hadnt either, i only found em cause i weas lookin to see if lemmings had been ported instead of trying to run it in an emulator

[frosty spire]

i really wish they ha released the DLC for it that was mentioned in the manual

sucha great game

[wicked shard]

it should run fine in dosbox

I don't remember the manual enough to remember them talking about DLC

I can find the original boxes for Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego and Faces (also known as Tetris 3) but I don't know where the 5.25" disks went

[frosty spire]

it does, but dosbox is sometimes finicky on phones, so for giggles i chedcked for ports and found em

[wicked shard]

I doubt they can be read

[frosty spire]

in the manual it talks about a japan expansion with 4 new tracks and new weapons and stuff. I'm half tempted to see if anyone ever figured out how to mod it and make my own tracks

yeah, 5.25ers don't hold up well after this time. crazy enough, most of my 3.5ers are still good

i've only had to replace about 6 of em so far, but i of course have em all backed up in several places so i don't need to use em anymore

and then of course, ExoDOS happened

[wicked shard]

I don't see any of the abandonware sites with DeathTrack having any DLC

[frosty spire]

altho i actually owned a game he didn't have in it when 5.0 came out, so that was kinda cool

[frosty spire]

it was never released, it was just mentioned in the manual

for some reason deathtrack was abandoned right after release

[wicked shard]

DeathTrack: Resurrection (2009) is $0.59 on steam right now

[frosty spire]

which is really strange, cause there were other carmageddon type games out that were really popular, i guess they just decided not to even ocmpete

[frosty spire]

oh, they adde3d stunts for points

wow, that trailer makes it look like really bad 90s tv cgi LOL

[wicked shard]

so they started development on Amiga and then dug it back up later and completed the game?

[frosty spire]

dunno, but that trailer was kinda awful LOL

[plain aurora]

I can't be the only one who misses going through floppy disks and finding the game i want to play

[spice oak]

wow, people still bring up the GN news that was done on LTT?

[wicked shard]

Well, it seems we need to become lawyers when LMG apologizes. We need to ask for specifics at every single granular level because these third-party disclosure videos seem to be trending on a yearly thing :(

Clear the apology and the "plan" with the error handling document wasn't accomplishing everything that it seemed to imply it would

Two major issues pointed out so far:

• While the apology video explicitly brought up transparency and accountability for sponsorship, none of the examples in the Error Handling SOP give an example that sponsorship is covered under the "plan"
• While LMG does review of both physical and services based technology, none of the examples in the Error Handling SOP give an example that service based reviews will be covered under the "plan"

Once we can get the Error Handling SOP policy consistent which what seemed to be implied by the 2023 apology video, then I feel more confident that the yearly disclosure videos about LMG should come to an end

A LOT of thought was put into both of the video responses in 2023. Now we just need to ask that just as much thought be put into a writen revision of the SOP

If the Medium Severity of the SOP had applied pro-actively then the points MegaLag made about LMG would have been crushed to a whimper. Instead we are in another year and another re-active response.

Someday we will get there. I think it is easy now to identify what went wrong and what needs to change.

[dim hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4yL3YTwWk @ WAN show topics

[frosty spire]

you are definitely not, i actually belong to a club in atlanta that's got nearly 100 members(and we talk to clubs all around the US and even some other countries) that are all about retro computing of all types 🙂

[plain aurora]

And LGR helps haha

[frosty spire]

plus things like ExoDOS and several other projects aimed more specifically at retro gaming and game preservation

[plain aurora]

I honestly want game makers to stand aside and let preservation happen.

[frosty spire]

it would be a lot easier if our copyright system wasn't set up to incentivize hoarding above all else

[plain aurora]

Yep

[frosty spire]

but, thankfully, the general consensus outside of corporations seems to be that if you offer no legal way to get something that has been for sale before, then sailing the high seas is perfectly acceptable

[wicked shard]

After living through so many issues and myths about how to make floppies/removal disks "better" and "reliable," I am done with the nostalgia

silly religious stuff like can a green marker circle on the 5.25" can make it better

or the hell of the click of death on the "ZIP" attempt to replace the floppy

or the meh of the LS120 drives in reliability

[frosty spire]

what? 1 is a conspiracy theory, 2 happened only to the external parallel zip drives, and as for 3, the ls120 superdisks were such a failure they aren't even considered worth collecting.

and the parallel port external zip drives were eclipsed by the SCSI external drives, and then the internal zip100 zip250 drives. also, the click of death has nothing to do with the discs, and everything to do with the drives themselves, and is easily fixable in most cases

3.5 inch discs are still viable to this day, most of the ones i have, and most of the thousands of ones in the retro community i belong to in atlanta have held up as long as they were barely kept in decent storage situations

but most of the effort now is preserving their data on more reliable storage devices. i've even converted all but one of my old computers over to solid state drives. (DOS machines running on SSDs are friggin amazing by the way, you end up with the CPU as a bottleneck even on machines as slow as 4MHz

[tiny mauve]

616 messages since yesterday. You lot, it's Christmas. If this is still about the honey thing, please go like see your family or something instead of complaining about a company on the internet

[frosty spire]

totally some talk about retro gaming 🙂

[wicked shard]

Does anyone still make a 2.88 mb drive?

[wicked shard]

If you exclude the 800kb apple floppy with variable speed motor

[frosty spire]

again, that would be a drive issue, not an issue with the discs themsevels

you really have a hard time with grouping unlike things together

[wicked shard]

You could only read the 800kb disk if the drive was variable speed

So it is more a problem with the standard

[frosty spire]

which was implemented in the drives. not the discs

so again, you are saing the discs have a problem when in fact it is the drive

know what, nm, im just gonna block you so i don't have to see you be so confidently wrong in everything you do

[wicked shard]

I am saying the format has not always aged well for preservation of data

Conservation for things stored at 800kb and 2.88mb can be a headache

[plain aurora]

thats what sea i ride

[frosty spire]

have to admit, the advent of things like Everdrive cartridges and the Analogue consoles makes life a lot easier if ya wanna play retro consoles, and the DOS situation isn't bad at all, it's the stuff from about 98 on that gets difficult, cause of the connectivity in so many things after that point

[plain aurora]

And things like windows 11 that doesn't like retro software at all

CS6 on 11 just crashes the whole system for example and its software

[wicked shard]

That is an unfair match up, in Adobe vs Microsoft, of course the bloat of Adobe will win

Krita and inkspace run fine on w11

[frosty spire]

CS6?

[plain aurora]

Adobe Creative Suite 6 the last one you can buy outright without sub

[plain aurora]

just thinking of those people who brought CS6 for their chance of a lifetime license

[frosty spire]

ahh, is it a problem with the whole 64bit only thing of 11?

[plain aurora]

not sure

[woeful crescent]

Okay seriously.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1809upo8wM its pronounced boo-BLAY, just ask Michael Bublé.. gotta make this the litehearted drama for WANShow to offset the other stuff.

[wicked shard]

I was thinking if ALL of windows is dumping into a BSOD then maybe it is a driver for a device that only gets plugged in while using CS6 so maybe Wacom is to blame and CS6 is taking the blame?

Btw, W11 still keeps Win32

for non-kernel/driver space

it is Win16 that got killed without third-party add-ons to bring it back

But CS6 contains zero Win16 code

[frosty spire]

wow, so blocking someone just makes it so you don't see their messages unless you choose too, but they can still see and reply to yours. so that's completely pointless

[woeful crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/aidan-gallagher-aidan-aidansarmy-lemoncult-the-more-you-know-gif-24039600

[spice oak]

Of course. It's all about learning from the past. Which LMG has done. Now they're having to learn that perhaps their initial response to how they disclosed that they were dropping the sponsor Honey, was not enough. So we'll find out on wanshow what the response will be.

[wicked shard]

I am concern that LMG may still have a conflict of interest in how much the disclose for this specific sponsor :(

LTT store still uses a Paypal merchant account and Paypal is known for terminating account without disclosing a reason

They might be walking on egg shells to make sure they don't get hit by Paypal's famous retaliation

[spice oak]

Perhaps.

but no need to be sad about it

[wicked shard]

I was really hoping the outcome of August 2023 was rock solid

It is also frustrating how companies like Paypal seem to look for ways to violate the law and behave in such an anti-consumer way

Since Paypal is operating in the USA, the Consumer Review Fairness Act should apply. But since they never say why they ban accounts, they can just secretly violating the law.

If someone wants to know why an account has been banned, they are told to talk to Paypal's lawyers via a binding arbitration which gives their lawyers plenty of time to state a different reason after the fact.

At least that is my view from reading about them on their own sub-reddit

[spice oak]

The outcome of August 2023 was fine by me with the video they uploaded. This is now specifically about sponsors and if LMG should have disclosed more then they did about why they're dropping a sponsor.

[wicked shard]

Which to me, it was very clear that handling of sponsors was part of the apology and why they included Colton Potter in the video. But it has been since pointed out here that they left some loopholes in the LMG Error Handling document large enough to drive a mack truck through. :(

The other thing I would like to see changed (which goes way beyond the scope of LTT) is that merchant storefront software should have affiliate sharing. If I watch 3 review video during a week and click on the affiliate links in each of the 3 videos, the last one I watched shouldn't win the entire commission. Esp. if I found the first or second video more helpful.

But I think coupon code finding system should be given the lowest weighting in a commission sharing system.

Since the person already picked out the product at that point and the hardest part of deciding to make the purchase is already over.

[spice oak]

the video from MegaLag actually goes over that it's easier to allow one affiliate code instead of many, and that's why amazon only allows one affiliate code

[wicked shard]

A lot of things are easier but that doesn't make it right

It had been easier to get high performance out of a web server if you turn encryption off

Fortunately we now have PCI DSS and have higher expectations of what is reasonable when checking out with a credit card

The industry should either self-regulate in the direction that is right or eventually expect laws from governing bodies such as the EU to regulate.

If Honey was owned by someone that cared by doing right by the industry, affiliate sharing could have been implemented by them. When capturing the affiliate tag they could have offered the affiliate they are replacing a cut. Even better, they could have offered affiliate cuts for merchant sites that the reviewer never signed up for by simply being a Honey affiliate reviewer.

But, of course, when Paypal buys Honey for $4 billion, they are not doing it to help spread the love.

They are going full throttle on self interested return to maximize their purchase.

[spice oak]

Yep cuz PayPal paid 4 billion for the Honey browser extension.

[crude sandal]

Idk what shit you're creating in your mind, august 2023 had absolutely nothing to do with sponsors

[wicked shard]

https://youtu.be/0cTpTMl8kFY?t=693

"LTT: What do we do now? Colton on ethics and sponsorships"

[wicked shard]

^ Please watch the video and take note of the date the video was released

[spice cairn]

yo what's the under over on them even bringing this up on the WAN show

[wicked shard]

I guess Kaptian Core thought the WAN show would be the most likely place we will first get to hear LMGs side of the story

[restive rain]

They said they would address the necessary parts on wan

I just can’t believe this convo is still going on from like 5 days ago

[spice oak]

I can wait until wanshow to see LMG's response

[tulip hatch]

I'm expecting next WAN show to be sponsored by Honey!

[frozen agate]

Are we really still waffling on the same topic three days later? Have some of you got literally nothing else to do?

[wicked shard]

No, it will be sponsored by Pie, an ad-block that pays you to watch ads, from the creators of Honey

[woeful crescent]

Its funny you mention Pie, I think 2 days ago MissMikkaa (twitch streamer) caught them using her image to promote it.. without consent..

[wicked shard]

That must have been a fun DMCA takedown

[tulip hatch]

I knew Pie hole was bad!!1

[wicked shard]

What?! No! Pi-Hole is fine

The source code to Pi-Hole is on github, you can review it. You can see anything someone brings up in the Issue tracker.

Oh, MissMikkaa is doing Wolfenstein: The New Order right now. I am sure she is a great twitch streamer but I have no interest in watching Wolfenstein right now.

[woeful crescent]

https://i.imgur.com/vHGf3Zm.png

[wicked shard]

I bet if she complains to Twitch administration about it, they will file a DMCA for her

I doubt Amazon is at all happy about Pie

[woeful crescent]

Probably, plus shes part of a talent group which likely would also go after this sort of stuff on her bahalf.. after all gotta pay to play.

[wicked shard]

She is still on the site right now