the-wan-show

[restive rain]

investigates

sorry that was bad of me

[hard lintel]

"Mmmm hmm hmm hm. Mmmmm! Mm MMM! HRRNMMM!"
"Calm down there Linus"
"MMNRRRGHHH!"

[neat kiln]

Possibly conducts staff interviews and such.

[restive rain]

i hate the people complaning about the 69 joke

becasue its one not even really a joke

and two how can they predict the future and know maddison was going to alege such things

its like 🙄

[hard lintel]

Maybe people dont know what six nines means

[balmy oriole]

for sure they dont

[hard lintel]

Four nines battle royale
Five nines at Freddy's
Six nines, nice

[restive rain]

100% they dont

oopse

should have seen that coming

its 99.9999% uptime, not reaally ment only as a joke

[hard lintel]

Time for an asterisk clarification! /J

[tired jacinth]

The standard is called five-nines availability, Luke just happened to add the six to make a joke.

[restive rain]

Do you know that for sure? what if lukes team is actually reaching for six nines uptime

[hard lintel]

A joke and loftier goal at the same time

I'm gonna press x to doubt because adding that extra 9 is real hard

[tired jacinth]

Well, a 5-9 allows a down time of total 5 minutes and 15 seconds during a year.

I will be impressed if he manages to push that to 6-9

[hard lintel]

6-9 would be a little over 30 seconds

Out of a year

[tired jacinth]

Yeah, perhaps a bit too optimistic

[neat kiln]

What joke?

[restive rain]

luke made a "joke" about siz nines updatime on thier servers, people didnt like that beasue of the maddison situation which didnt even happen yet during the filming of the clip

so its like :/

[neat kiln]

Is it in that response video?

[hard lintel]

Or they thought it wasn't appropriate in general

Yes

[tired jacinth]

Wouldn't call it a joke.. it's like like geeky nerd humor. It just happened to be poorly timed with the tweets happening after they filmed their response.

[pastel garden]

That’s really good actually

[stone bear]

it's a shame that linus can't be fired if the allegations are true

[pastel garden]

Who said it was Linus?

[restive rain]

Just a troll attention seeking

[stone bear]

that's what the investigation is for

[hard lintel]

It's company wide

[pastel garden]

yea

nobody blamed linus if anything hes more likly not to have been it

[stone bear]

isn't it monetised?

[tired jacinth]

They disabled it

[stone bear]

great

[pastel garden]

honestly applause, ltt handled the situation pretty well today, official statement and action plan for the madison situation, a genuine apology and promise to do better, really great but it did take a little bit to get here

[stone bear]

yes the cooling off period is a good call

[modern linden]

They’ll come in and talk to everyone one by one. It can be effective if taken seriously and done correctly. Fear is the biggest deterrent. If people feel that there will be backlash for things they say, the process loses its effectiveness.

[pastel garden]

yea its probably the best they couldve done minus yesterdays fiasco

i hope GN and LTT can keep working together too as both sides seem to just want to do whats right and bring attention to it to fix it

[balmy oriole]

when did they ever make a video together?

[stone bear]

now that's impossible, they entered the fued stage

[pastel garden]

i dont think either of them really wanna permanently burn those bridges, its unlikely but i hope they can keep working together

[modern linden]

Steve definitely didn’t make things easier in that regard, but I agree that I think they will both work to repair the relationship.

[pastel garden]

https://www.youtube.com/live/LOU9Ea60Zzc?feature=share

[balmy oriole]

Streamed 3 years ago

3 years ago in this space is basically never

[pastel garden]

okay but your question was when did they ever do a video

[balmy oriole]

yeah. I haven't seen this even, since I think I started watchin LTT after that

Seemed* like this "oh no, GN and LTT will have a quarel" idea is based on the premise that they went hand in hand a lot

[marble frigate]

Also that's a text from Steve that woke Linus at 3AM to tell him his channel was hacked

[restive rain]

interesting take

[balmy oriole]

1000000 views on the original thread of LTT forum!
that is actually insane

[restive rain]

jfc thats crazy

[stone bear]

ltt should be grateful about what steve did to make a wake up call for ltt to stop for a bit and make things right
they needed this

[marble mica]

Hey everyone, little off topic but this seems to be the most intelligent channel in this server

I am making a Knowledge base for our customers

In there including Web Basics

This is it so far

[balmy oriole]

this is a low bar in these 2 days

[marble mica]

What would you add?

[restive rain]

eh, not sure if i agree with the energy that "ltt owes GN a thank you for what GN did"

LTT was already working on it, they have been for a while, GN just blew up the situation into a lot more then was probably needed

[keen bloom]

i think that regardless, they needed to take the time off or to slow their upload schedule at some point soon. I personally think this whole thing was overblown a bit too much, but they did need to be put on the spot like this

[marble mica]

Corporations get discussed tho, he has no one to consult before making a piece like that. If they were working on it, they should've communicated it earlier imo

[stone bear]

under the pressure of making 25 videos a week? nothing could change

[raw pecan]

Do you explain in the cookie part about what is defined as an essential cookie and such?

[marble mica]

Yessir

[raw pecan]

Awesome

[restive rain]

If they were working on it, they should've communicated it earlier imo
they have been communicating that for a while no?

[marble mica]

All the diffren types of cookies

[restive rain]

woh where did this number come from

[marble mica]

Not to the extend their doing now

[marble mica]

WAN show, some episode ago

[keen bloom]

no, that number is about right

[stone bear]

ltt's own video (staff review or something)

[restive rain]

fair

[marble mica]

I think they said 26 on wan show

[restive rain]

ah gotcha

[marble mica]

Excluding shorts

[balmy oriole]

between 5 and 6 you might want to explain why would anyone need to write their site themselves instead of using CMS (also add sitebuilders somewhere)

[marble mica]

Hmm, important to note that this is specifically for our already onboared customers. Most of who'm will have their site running on a cms, healdess wordpress or custom built.

[balmy oriole]

ok, sure.
In such FAQ oriented thing I often look for "common mistakes", and also different snake oils (like not all SEO is actualy good)

[marble mica]

Yeah we plan on covering white hat and black hat seo

Also negative effects from good intentions

[marble mica]

Did i just title all this LTT drama? 'Negative effects from good intentions'

[stone bear]

auctiongate?

[marble mica]

I've added common mistakes to become its seperate category. Thanks for the suggestion

[bitter heron]

I love the people going on about salary disclosure, I don’t know, but anyone else here but do you talk about salary with your friends and coworkers and boss? I work doesn’t actively restrict it, but it’s not something we talk about at least in the west.

[balmy oriole]

Not on any of my jobs.

[keen bloom]

ngl i thought it was $999,999....
but i didnt go around calling them sellouts. glad i didnt cuz i was trippinnnn

[mystic idol]

For US tech worker jobs people just use levels.fyi

[balmy oriole]

And I am not from 'the west'

[bitter heron]

i’m at four or five in that case

[mystic idol]

And it is something that gets talked about amongst coworkers in the companies I've worked in, albeit coworkers not on the same team

[balmy oriole]

Also, we have at least 2 or 3 job/hiring site that do have salaries for different levels of jobs/seniority/etc

[neat kiln]

I was told recently at my job that I shouldn't talk about wages with coworkers.

Anyways I've got a chance at an interview to make $3 more now

[bitter heron]

Yeah, glass door has a lot of that info. I was just looking at a lot of the comments which is probably a bad thing, and noticed people nitpicking everything in the most recent video, and now that I’m defending any of it, but I certainly don’t have to justify every action of my job to 15 million people good or bad.

[balmy oriole]

when you say 3$ more, you mean per hour?

[neat kiln]

yes

[pastel garden]

The most amazing, 10/10, valid, sane take ever

[balmy oriole]

aha. Never have understood this $/hour mark anywhere

[neat kiln]

I got a 3% raise at my current job after the last year. I started looking for somewhere new.
I shouldn't have to say, I don't make $100 an hour, so a 3 dollar increase is a lot more than 3%

[mystic idol]

I got a 0.9% raise last year lol

But I do make over 100 an hour, so I'm not complaining too hard

[balmy oriole]

yeah, I understand. But for me to understand that i went and calculated 168*5 to get that this was a 500$ per month raise 😄

[mystic idol]

Might be time for me to hop jobs at some point

I have friends getting paid 2x or more for the same years of experience

[marble mica]

Here in the Netherlands, most people are very open about it. In some cases in Europe (denkmark I believe) you can litteraly request someone's salary and their entire finances that year, for free no questions asked from the gov

[balmy oriole]

I know and apply for raises my team, half of which earns more than me 😄

[neat kiln]

We'll see. I just filled out an application, in the last minute, for a job that would see me having a 7$ raise

[mystic idol]

I have one friend 1 year older than me who makes like 700k usd

Same industry

🤡

[balmy oriole]

GL with that!

[marble mica]

I have one friend 1 year older than me who is addicted to nose candy and can't hold a job. I am 22.... Life can get worse, be happy with what you have already

[balmy oriole]

uh oh. In my country that money would make you 0.001% or even higher

[mystic idol]

What's nose candy?

[marble mica]

uhhh

horse tranquilizer?

[neat kiln]

loves white stuff

[balmy oriole]

Sugar?

[marble mica]

Not sure if it will be filtered

[mystic idol]

Oh, coke

[stone bear]

it's worker's right to discuss wages and employers use this tactic so employees don't find out about the gaps in wages amongst them

[marble mica]

https://tenor.com/view/drugs-weekend-mood-dance-gif-13914654

Nose candy?

[bitter heron]

My team mates do the same job as me but because of our country differences I make less when you convert to their currency. And my housing is way more expensive.

[marble mica]

Remote work?

[bitter heron]

But I like my job and my team so I keep pushing for a raise.

Yep.

[stone bear]

is your coworker remote too?

[balmy oriole]

Knowelege of wages is the path to the dark side. Knoweledge leads to envy. Envy leads to Fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering

/s

[marble mica]

Remote often won't take into account housing. For instance, working at microsoft new york will pay more than microsoft amsterdam. But at the end of the day, you should have roughly the same % of cost to salary

[bitter heron]

Yep. We all are. He has more tenure then me by almost a factor of 5 though.

[stone bear]

we make such a good working environment that coworkers won't need to discuss wages and if they do it means we failed

[bitter heron]

We’re remote mostly because of COVID though. I wasn’t hired as remote.

[mystic idol]

Are you at msft?

[stone bear]

there you go, still look for other companies for the same position though

[balmy oriole]

I actually agree with that Linus idea about unions

[marble mica]

Nah

Just an example

[bitter heron]

Yeah my challenge is my management and the level above love me. But HR dictates the ranges and I’m the only person in this role in my country. So any time I grow or promote they have to make a new profile.

[stone bear]

the idea is fine but it's trusting the company to self regulate which never ends well

[restive rain]

have we just turned this into the new less busy general channel?

[marble mica]

ahah

[bitter heron]

Sounds like it.

[marble mica]

How replacable are you @bitter heron

[balmy oriole]

True. The company is never you friend, no matter what.

[mystic idol]

The problem is that it's not playing out that way in practice, and this also assumes that Linus is always in control and always going to be benevolent to his employees

[bitter heron]

Where’s the people discussing issues without the vitriol and f bombs of the comments. Chuckle 🙂

[mystic idol]

There are some absolute horrid takes in general chat

[balmy oriole]

just open reddit 😄

[bitter heron]

Everyone is really. I was always told to look at how impacted they’d be without me. Or how long it’d take to replace and retrain. I’d say they could replace me in a few months with another half year to get someone up to speed.

[marble mica]

We're all the way down here, where its safe

[mystic idol]

Nah, reddit is better about it imo because shit takes are downvoted

Here all we can do is react with 🤡

[balmy oriole]

idk, LTT reddit today seems like a pool of acid and hate

[marble mica]

Seems like you are in a position of power, how documented is your day to day? Is there a file of SOP's that could replace you?

Who whould train your replacement? You?

[mystic idol]

Yeah but that's not limited to reddit

[bitter heron]

My day to day is varied. I provided architectural guidance to our business units. While someone could bring in the skill. The environment knowledge is what’s needed to excel. My fellow team mates at the same level can cover for me yes. But they’d be at a disadvantage. Same if we lost one of them. The three seniors work very closely together and we all have our strengths.

[marble mica]

Aha

[balmy oriole]

I miss covid. We still work remote, if we want to, but covid really seems like an easier times

[hearty crag]

So, Reddit?

[balmy oriole]

I'm actually not an avid user, so I do not know

[marble mica]

I know someone who found themselves in a position where half of the company relied on him. He never documented, he often used his private email. So there was little to no knowledge on his position to the point where he could skip performance reviews cause no one understood.

He found out he wasn't moving up in salary like other people who just started, he was screwed out of roughly 34k over the years

Dude didn't come into work one week, chaos errupted, no one could figure out how to do what he did

Begged for him to come back

[hearty crag]

And you are better for it 🙂

[marble mica]

He said sure, for triple the salary

[balmy oriole]

big oof

[bitter heron]

Dang. I’ve worked with some IT greybeards like that.

I had the company national dns server on my laptop during an office move. And was late getting in.

[balmy oriole]

half of the clients of my 1st workplace relied on a 18 year billing system which was extremly hard to support and even worse to transfer from.
It was 8 years ago. They still haven't moved all clients from there (millions)

[marble mica]

What????

You mean, acces to it?

Or ON YOUR LAPTOP?

[restive rain]

oh yikes, just saw this pop up

[plush prawn]

Unfortunately.

[marble mica]

Any extra topics this should cover?

[restive rain]

i wonder if this is real

listening through it atm

[plush prawn]

Read her entire x-thread?

[restive rain]

yea i read that already

[plush prawn]

Wild.

[restive rain]

listened to the full clip and not sure what people are so upset about

there is really nothing bad there imo

again, seems like people are taking things and running with them, i don't know if i can necessarily trust any of what some random redditor says

[marble mica]

Just listened to it

It sounds familiar

Isn’t this an old clip?

[restive rain]

yea

looks like it was posted 5mo ago

[plush prawn]

Very, back when Maddy left LMG.

[balmy oriole]

Not to be Q-anonish, but this (and any other media) could be AI-generated rn

Like seriously. Some1 hold on to THIS SPECIFIC CLIP for so long?

[marble mica]

Only if LTT were a public company… I would‘be bought a shit ton of stocks right now

[plush prawn]

True, but the clips is harmless, imo. If it is AI, it wasn't worth the cycles.

[balmy oriole]

also true

[plush prawn]

I think a big problem LMG is running into is a clash between corporate and personal relationships. The company has some coworkers who have been friends for 10 years, acting like friends for 10 years, working alongside folks that are working for a 100 person business. Trying to integrate that friendship feel with the 'newer' employees may be causing some feedback/hr problems we're seeing.

Tldr: Code-switching problems.

[marble mica]

It’s weird how so many people didn’t know about anonymous reports for hr

Yes my company is 5x smaller, but I have ensured everyone knew about these options. Even remote freelancers

[plush prawn]

Meh, I don't think so. I'm constantly learning new things for a company I've been at for almost a year.

[balmy oriole]

it is not. I hear such kind of amusement a couple of times a year during different reminders to team members about different policies (often for the benefit of the workers) from people who work longer that I have. Nobody actually remember this info until needs it

[plush prawn]

It's not that leadership hasn't told me everything, it's that I don't care to remember/hear it all. If I need to know how many and what specific holidays I'm given, I'll figure it out when I need to.

Cross that bridge when I come to it type of thing.

[marble mica]

Having a central place for stuff like that is crucial

[balmy oriole]

also present and accessible.

[minor reef]

We do have good documentation and training..... I still don't know where I'd go to HR to report anything.

It's simply too much information to keep track of when I'm also tracking tech documentation and figuring out code problems. Few people have the head space for that

[marble mica]

Clearly not present enough at LTT

We have a team space in notion with only the important items like these forms

Fortunately our vibe currently wouldn’t need this option

Buts it’s there

[minor reef]

All it takes is one person to screw that vibe up for everyone. At my current job, before we were bought and merged, we had an acronym for that: "DFIUFEE" or "Don't F*** It Up For Everyone Else"

[marble mica]

Ok maybe that’s documentation bias

[minor reef]

But in this larger org, lots of people, especially those from the buying org, don't necessarily care

[marble mica]

It’s an unwritten rule for my team aswell

We’ve also transitioned away to the ‘alleen maar bazen’ hybrid model (only bosses)

Removing most hierarchy and micro management

Anyhow that’s it for me

Goodnight most intelligent chat in this server

[restive rain]

Im not goina say anything else about maddison since they already responded to that and we will get more info when we do

[agile verge]

Do you have a direct link to the response?
I'm interested in reading it, and digging through the forum is a PITA.

[vital blaze]

where is this

[restive rain]

cc @vital blaze

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834190/linus-tech-tips-gamersnexus-madison-reeves-controversy

[vital blaze]

what thats weird we never discuss wages as co-workers

[agile verge]

Thanks!

[agile verge]

Some of my coworkers and I discuss wages

[vital blaze]

idk thats private stuff

[plain kestrel]

I regularly discuss with my colleague, and we as an organisation have a published pay scale

[dusty zinc]

^

[vital blaze]

pay scale is different from your actual wage

[plain kestrel]

So my job is a grade 3, and I can get to 3.3 with experience and performance

Nope

Everyone on grade 3.1 is paid the same for us

[worn cypress]

The companies who say "we don't discuss wages" - are the ones where wages are a hot topic and usually there's a reason. JME

[plain kestrel]

We publish the exact figure associated

I know the CEO makes about 3x what I make

[proven canyon]

Plays the devil advocate here.
Discussing wages can be harmful in a way of making the employees in envy thus harming harmony. But that only happens if you talk to the wrong people. You should always choose a people to discuss your wages that will have your back. In the end still discussing in the long term is beneficial to the working class

[dusty zinc]

@plain kestrel Same here

[agile verge]

I miss having a public pay scale.
When I worked for the US PTO we were on the GS system.
You pretty well could tell pay just based on grade # and step #.

[plain kestrel]

Yeah I'm in the higher education sector so it's very common for us

[vital blaze]

so public sector

not the private sector

[plain kestrel]

And if my responsibilities change, I can request a reevaluation which can increase my grade and backdate it

I've also had it in the private sector tbf

[vital blaze]

discussing wages with coworkers not discussing wages to management for increases or whatever

[plain kestrel]

But just because it's public sector doesn't mean you can dismiss it's benefits outright

[vital blaze]

depends which public sector i guess govt pays a lot lol

and overbloated

[plain kestrel]

Not always a lot!

Civil service jobs maybe

[agile verge]

Pretty well my experience and those of friends as well.
Not discussing wages as a culture usually means something to hide.
Open discussion of wages usually correlates with open discussions of what it means to contribute more and earn a raise.

[worn cypress]

Private company, I went toe to toe with management over my pay. Because those of us who'd been there for 8-10yrs; as it turned out were getting less than some of the new staff. Because 0$ for retention but $$$ for new hires ...

[plain kestrel]

^

[vital blaze]

they pay a lot in canada

[vital blaze]

ya asking managment makes sense theyre the ones who give the raises

[plain kestrel]

I used to work in retail, and we opened a new store, so a colleague of mine transfered from being deputy manager of his old store to the new one. Before he'd even stated at the new store, they advertised his job for £2k more than they were paying him!

[bitter heron]

Actually on my laptop; was doing an ESX upgrade at the time and had the VM on my machine. We had copies of it but the esx server itself was being upgraded and we were small and didn't have budget for two :P)

[plain kestrel]

Companies without wage transparency are ones who are more willing to fuck you over, in my experience

[bitter heron]

Up here certain public workers the wage are actually published.

(certain levels of government)

[worn cypress]

how do you think we figured out that the new hires answering phones were getting paid more than those responsible for those managing them? lol ...

[bitter heron]

I have a few friends I don't have to ask their pay - I can just google it 🙂

[plain kestrel]

salary-scales-for-all-staff.pdf https://www.uwe.ac.uk/-/media/uwe/documents/about/services/salary-scales-for-all-staff.pdf

Yeah exactly like this

[vital blaze]

you say your managment but you didnt know what new hires were getting paid?

[worn cypress]

nope manager and HR did $, those of us managing - we weren't being given the rate at that time (it was a muddy time in that company after repeated ownership changes)

[vital blaze]

well thats on the company, companies ive worked for and ive managed I always knew how much theyre getting paid

without having to discuss with anyone directly their wages

[worn cypress]

I could get a breakdown of my divisions labour costs; but try to sort out 10-20 people at different rates to a ballpark...

[plain kestrel]

Just as an aside, I love how this is much calmer than general

[stark quiver]

For the Bingo, should we cap the possible squares at 75, or at 100?
We have 96 currently, need to cull some if we're going to stick with realism.

Up react for 100, down react for 75

[bitter heron]

That meeting recording in general is interesting.

[plush prawn]

You should. Obfuscating wage is how companies push pay rates down. It's a hold over from prudish times when money was taboo.

[bitter heron]

I generally don't agree with policy changes being delivered with a laugh/shrug off - though I have 100% seen it at small companies without HR; and I also know from experience that while HR might sound boring or even unneccessary to some - as you grow the chance for issues does increase due to sheer number of people in the place; and those policies and guidelines are for everyone's benefit (or the companies sometimes) and should be at least treated that way upon first glance.

If most of your employees are great humans, a "don't be mean" policy might feel like an obvious thing or waste of time. But as you grow; there are some people that will join the comany that either need to read that for legit reasons (aka they're mean) or the company can point too when that person is indeed mean.

[vital blaze]

im not talking about with management

why does everyone assume that lol

[plush prawn]

I'm not talking about with management either?

[vital blaze]

our wages are on our job postings

youre talking about pushing pay rates down who does that ?

or companies

[bitter heron]

Our job postings have pay ranges too - I think we're talking about employee to employee discussions

(I think)

[plush prawn]

Down here, that's only just now starting to become law in some states. It's moronic that it's not federal required.

[plush prawn]

I was.

[vital blaze]

ya idc what other employees my level make as long managment knows what I shoudl be making

[plush prawn]

If someone doesn't know how much others are making in a particular field or position, then the companies can offer a lower wage and the employee would have no idea or ground to stand on requiring more pay.

[bitter heron]

My problem is management knows what I should be making but can't convince HR to adjust it. At least that's the picture I've been given

[vital blaze]

if you dont know what your position should be getting paid youre in more trouble than you realise then

[plush prawn]

That's half the US right now.

[mystic idol]

The fact that it was recorded in the first place shows that there is a clear systematic issue at LMG that is not limited to what Madison went through

[vital blaze]

well then ppl have to educate themselves

[plush prawn]

And step one is to stop being uncomfortable with money. Talking about it does that.

[vital blaze]

cant just wait to ask other ppl in the company

[vital blaze]

I think real industry research is far more effective

[bitter heron]

Agreed. In my career I started at a place at say 60 employees that grew to about 450 before we were bought. I have seen this behaviour (not exactly) but I was there before HR was a thing to when we got the first person to when it became a team, to the actual serious issues that they had to deal with (and I had to assist with given my role)

[bitter heron]

At most larger places, if that recording was made known, I would not be surprised if that person was identified and let go.

[plush prawn]

How does recording a conversation imply a problem? The conversation wasn't even wild, it was basic new company HR explanations.

[bitter heron]

There's usually clauses in employee codes of conduct that would not approve of said recordings or rather releasing of what is considerd confidential internal meetings

[nocturne terrace]

This is either gonna be the best or worst wan show ever...

[bitter heron]

When you start to get into information classification as well; there's specific guidelines around what every time of info is and how it should be handled by employees

[mystic idol]

this meeting wouldn't have even been needed if Madison's tweets were false - he pulled in the entire company to talk about what to do when there is an issue, and most people didn't know about the anonymous reporting

The fact that he had to pull the entire company in for a 4 minute meeting just to tell them about that, as well as other things to do/not to do, shortly after Madison left should raise red flags

[bitter heron]

i.e what an email between you and a coworker is, versus you and the CEO vs you and a customer or you and a stake holder, etc.

[plush prawn]

Or not exist at all, and ruin a very good streak.

[bitter heron]

I don't know the date on that meeting but I suspect it's pre-LTT having 2? HR folks

[mystic idol]

Also, if the meeting was not a big deal, the recording would not exist

[nocturne terrace]

honestly the possibility never occured to me.. fuck

[plush prawn]

No, it shouldn't. Updating the company on proper processes, especially the start of proceses is just a needed action. And this would've happened at some point regardless of what has/hasn't happened with Maddy.

I'm sure there is some way to annonymously report things at my current company, but there's no fucking shot I'd be able to tell you how.

[plush prawn]

True, but I record anything and everything I possibly can/am allowed to.

[bitter heron]

A lot of this stuff to someone who's never worked in the corporate world sounds like evil corporate BS; and some of it can be - but I can say there are definitely reasons a company would take this seriously with either HR, legal, or law enforcement or all of the above.

[mystic idol]

You're supposed to train your employees on that when they get hired and as you develop your processes before they quit

I have to do all the corporate trainings every 6 months for this reason

[plush prawn]

That doesn't mean any employees are going to remember it.

[bitter heron]

Also exit interviews are a thing as you get larger

and hopefully they actually want to learn why you're leaving (a good HR team will anyways)

[plush prawn]

You can have a meeting with me every 6 months if you want. I'm not listening.

[mystic idol]

That sounds like a failing on management if the employees don't know how to resolve problems

[bitter heron]

There's also issues depending on if you've disclosed those recordings.

[plush prawn]

You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. How is that the handlers problem?

[bitter heron]

Or are sending them outside the company

[mystic idol]

Dude, managers are supposed to be responsible for the well-being of their directs

[bitter heron]

those twice a year policy reviews are more the base line. Usually you'd hope that your management chain (direct > their boss > their boss, etc) would help resolve or educate day to day

Yep

[mystic idol]

Part of the responsibility of being a manager is protecting your employees from bullshit they aren't equipped to handle

[nocturne terrace]

Just want to say that nothing would get built if most of y'all worked in construction. Stay away from health care too...

[plush prawn]

Yes. But if I as an employee don't remember exactly every detail an options to me, that doesn't mean management has failed. That means I don't want to remember every single path I can take as an employee.

[bitter heron]

And good managers will. I've had the range from good to disinterested to somewhat hostile (thankfully no evil "drama on TV" type bosses)

You mostly don't need to know all the paths; but you should know where to go to find the paths

[plush prawn]

If I need to know how to report something to HR anonymously, I'm not going to remember that for 3 years. When/If I ever need to, I'll ask someone how when the times comes.

[bitter heron]

THe paths aren't always for bad reasons too. Sometimes its just "what's our vacation policy?" "what's my dental coverage like?" etc

[mystic idol]

And again, the fact that they had to have this meeting after Madison left meant that she didn't just make up the complaints recently

[plush prawn]

Exactly. Knowing how to find the paths doesn't mean I know all the paths.

[bitter heron]

That's true; which is why (hopefully) you have a good manager, or HR team that can help you find them

Same with IT support; as long as you know how to put in a trouble ticket for support; we'll do the rest.

But if you just complain your mouse is broken openly in a company wide teams channel, then that's not helpful 🙂

[mystic idol]

Linus called the meeting because Madison complained before she quit, and maybe it turned out the escalation chain for complaints was shit or she didn't know what to do to escalate. But it means she also had issues before she left

[bitter heron]

Now speaking of work - off I go for after hours maintenance.

[mystic idol]

And then the fact that it was recorded - someone knew some shit went down or was about to go down

It's not hard evidence but it lends credence

[plush prawn]

No. Just because something is recorded doesn't mean anything.

[mystic idol]

If you knew you were just going to a meeting where your boss was telling you how to file an anonymous complaint, would you make a hidden audio recording? I doubt it

Making a hidden audio recording is a very deliberate action

[restive rain]

Linus/LTT Execs have made a proper post now

[plain kestrel]

I'm surprised, from his reaction at least, how many people didn't know about their anonymous complaints procedure

[plush prawn]

Yes, it is. But you don't know the intent behind it. Assuming it's because something bad is happening is a trash assumption. As I said, I record interactions all the time not thinking anything bad my happen.

[plain kestrel]

Also James' joke at the end of the recording speaks volumes.

[mystic idol]

Leaking a recording like this to the public is a fireable offense

You don't do it unless there's a reason to

[vital blaze]

what was leaked?

[plush prawn]

Only if it breaks policies.

[mystic idol]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15t1mzn/mandatory_meeting_the_after_madisons_departure/

[plush prawn]

Disagree.

[mystic idol]

You try recording a company meeting without your boss's knowledge and releasing it to the public, I guarantee your boss won't be happy regardless of your work policies

You're naive if you believe otherwise

[vital blaze]

oh wow

so someone randomly did thhis

[restive rain]

im going to say this again, but i dont trust this guy is who he says he is unless there is more proof, this is an old video someone else posted a while ago

[warm helm]

Everything said internaly is most likely considered to be confidential. Breaking that is not something you want to happen.

[plush prawn]

It doesn't matter if they're happy about it. It matters if it's against policies or the law.

[mystic idol]

This is exactly why the fact that a recording exists and was leaked means something happened

[drifting creek]

James going to get some sort of censure

[vital blaze]

is there any context in the recording seems generic so far

[restive rain]

i honestly dont think what james said is as bad as people are making it out to be

[mystic idol]

Recorded December 2021, after Madison left

[restive rain]

everyone is just blowing up at every little thing

[plush prawn]

Ah, so this channel has turned into assumption corner, got it.

[restive rain]

is there sepcifc date proof of this?

[warm helm]

Record a meeting and release it and there was stuff about a unreleased product or something and there is an issue. I have not seen it in this specific case though, so I am reacting to that in the way it would be in other companies

[restive rain]

all we know is that it "supposedly" happened around the holiday time

[vital blaze]

ya its hard to determine what this is exactly relating to

[drifting creek]

LMG going through all this is like finding out your old high school chemistry teacher was a crime lord

[mystic idol]

It's either December 2021 or December 2022. The GPU is a 3080 TI which released July 2021

[plain kestrel]

As is your right. I see it as the sort of comment one would think you'd know to be inappropriate in a company wide HR meeting.

[hearty crag]

The thread contains a transcript... It's pretty standard corpospeak reminding everyone of how to engage hr if they have a problem. Nothingburger

James was an idiot though

[vital blaze]

ya its a generic meeting at best the title is jumping to conclusions

[restive rain]

whos to say its even real, what if it was all ai generated

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[plush prawn]

True. I wouldn't make a joke like this at my company. James is practically an OG and probably stuck in that mindset.

[mystic idol]

Again, you try leaking a recording of a work meeting to the public. Regardless of stated policies, your boss will not be happy

[plain kestrel]

It's stupid, it speaks to the culture at the time, but I for one am still in this discord because I believe that they can and, I hope, will do better.

[restive rain]

again people are just taking anything that others say and running with it

[warm helm]

It just feels to me that everything was lit on fire before there was a chance for LTT to explain anything, and as such invoked a lot of reactions based on content that was designed to make people jump to a conclusion.

[plush prawn]

@plain kestrel, James' joke makes me think of my previous comment, like he's stuck in that friendship place.

[dusty zinc]

Unpopular opinion, assuming Short Linus was standing on a table to address everyone, James' comment isn't THAT bad. They are clearly friends who have worked together for a long time now

[plain kestrel]

Yeah I agree with you, it's more of a lads culture thing like OG

[plush prawn]

Acurate. But that's not what you were saying before, which is why I countered.

[mystic idol]

Also @plush prawn read the transcript https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15t1mzn/comment/jwhlkus

Since I'm not at liberty to share any details about what occurred, uh, all I can do is ask that you trust me and Yvonne

Something clearly happened

[warm helm]

It is difficult to expose (especially things like harassment) when people dont say anything about it. You cant expect people to act on something that they were never told was even happening.

[plain kestrel]

I think in the context of a company-wide meeting, it's stupid. In the context of banter between two friends, well they're both clearly comfortable with it.

[mystic idol]

something occurred

[vital blaze]

well the way it was sounding it was like something was covered up in the recording but it just sounded like a generic meeting to me

[plain kestrel]

The problem as a few people have said is that LMG has grown too quickly to build up these robust processes

[dusty zinc]

Maybe it's just the Australian in me

[hearty crag]

This. HR processes in particular are very tricky to get right

[plush prawn]

Like Luke/Linus interacting. Hilarious on WAN show, probably not the best in a company wide HR meeting.

[plain kestrel]

And I instantly think of Bob Katter

Yeah exactly

[dusty zinc]

That's a pretty poor representation

[plain kestrel]

HR is tough, human beings are complex, but I am optimistic that nobody in this is malicious

[plain kestrel]

It's his whole "... Well we're Australian" thing yknow? And don't worry, I know it's poor representation

[vital blaze]

well the good thing is theyre hired a 3rd party to get to the bottom of this

[plush prawn]

Very complex. I imagine bringing some young freshfaced newbie into my circle of friends for a month. We'd get HR complaints day 1, but there's zero percent chance any of them wouldn't be anything but supportive to that person. Just communication failures.

[plain kestrel]

On Linus' initial reaction, well, he has talked in the past about his ADHD, and a lot of people with the condition (myself included) are very sensitive to what's perceived as rejection. I totally understand why he reacted poorly at first, I certainly would've, and I don't think it means he's a bad person

[plain kestrel]

Exactly, it's about an environment where everyone feels comfortable and can thrive, and if mistakes have been made then they need to be addressed, but it doesn't mean conspiracy or evil.

[vital blaze]

what did Madison say when she was no longer there, did she ever say she quit?

I remember ppl were wondering at the time what happened

and her post she she quit due to the working environment but not due to the assualt or touching? just seems very confusing

[plush prawn]

@vital blaze, she wrote up a thread on x-twitter.

[vital blaze]

ya i read it but at the top she pinned the reason she quit

and made it clear that it was the work environment

[mystic idol]

The assault and touching would be part of the hostile work environment

[vital blaze]

I woudl think that would be the main thing

its very confusing its either an allegation or not

like she just said it was ruining her mental health and below that she put the role had incredible amount of daily items was incredibly high

like i said im glad they got third party to look into this

[warm helm]

I wrote a reply about how I would be more specific but it was flagged and removed so i will not type it again. tldr though I would make it more clear why then a blanket statement like "work environment" IF there was something more to be said about it

[vital blaze]

on here?

[warm helm]

Ya, I DMed you more info if you want to know, I can understand after the fact why it was removed but it was kinda one of those cases where a word is filtered because of potential use cases (which is a perfectly fine thing to do, to be clear)

I have not watched the GN video on it as I dont feel it would be beneficial to, I read the LTT forum thread about the video and feel I got a good understanding of what happened. I honestly just think that everything was sent over the edge before it should have. I like the quote from a post in said thread:

It's incredibly stupid and they need to make amends.
But think it's to early to get the pitchforks out.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/?do=findComment&comment=16078657

[neat kiln]

this man read the comments

[warm helm]

lol

[agile verge]

I'm not.
I work for a company that's been around over 40 years in the tech industry, I frequently teach colleagues who have been there as long or longer than I have that we have an anonymous reporting system if you want to use it. (For reference, I just started my 6th year.)

[agile verge]

Also, remember that HR is primarily there to protect the company, not necessarily the people in it.

And, any time you promote someone to a management position who used to just be a colleague and/or friend you now have competing interests of friendship and duty to the company.

Which is to say... I don't expect people to adjust well to management positions and the mindset changes that requires.
There will always be growing pains.

[mystic idol]

Madison responded to the recording

https://twitter.com/suuuoppp/status/1691937600129667314?s=20

Madison | Suop (@suuuoppp)

I’ve heard that HR meeting recording and please note how all the allegations that the management heard are referred to as “drama”.

Imagine how you would feel trying to say anything when THAT is the exact response you would be given.

Likes

959

Twitter · Aug 16, 2023, 10:18 PM

[vital blaze]

idk still seemed generic

should wait for 3rd party investigation I think

[sleek bison]

can someone summerize wut happened

[limpid onyx]

Alot has happened could you please be more specific?

[agile verge]

The best play.

[limpid onyx]

The only play that doesn't cause issues.. imo there won't be any evidence tho based on the leaked audio

[stray sonnet]

yeah as i said earlier somewhere else, madison can say alot of stuff. perhaps it's true but without a backbone of evidence of this happening it's your word against my word situation and that is a battle both parties lose

[hardy obsidian]

Well madison actually has nothing to lose

[limpid onyx]

Someone seriously needs to cut Linus off the internet for a couple days

[agile verge]

I don't know.
My understanding from reading Madison's post is that at least some of this was in emails.
So, depending on what email retention is like, there may be some smoking guns (same potentially for Teams logs).

[neat kiln]

Has he said something else?

[agile verge]

I'm not saying there is or isn't anything, I'm just saying there is potential for corroborating evidence.

[sleek bison]

a summery of everything, just like 1 sentence for each thing that happened

[stray sonnet]

true

[hardy obsidian]

It is 100% the wrong timing

But as far as I am concerned, I say worse things to friends

[stray sonnet]

a meeting with the whole team though is a different time

[hardy obsidian]

Thats why I said "100% wrong timing"

[stray sonnet]

i call friends of mine the most baffling names but i don't go say that every time i see them, in public especially not

[restive rain]

all it is right now is allegations, she provided no hard proof about anything she said. This here is a pretty good comment

[stray sonnet]

yup, barking dogs don't bite

[vital blaze]

thats true i walked by a dog it was quiet but nozzled but i felt a sudden push of its mouth to my leg without warning lol closest to getting bit i think

[limpid onyx]

He responded to the verge about Madisons accusations. Said he was in shock about learning about it now... Problem is that Yvonne is in charge of HR.. I don't buy that for a second.. he learned of this months ago when she quit.

[neat kiln]

It's possible the full extent wasn't explained to him

[vital blaze]

im sure there will be evidence from internal emails if he was or not

all the speculation is a waste of energy now

[stray sonnet]

yeah slowly releasing evidence is usually a good tactic, keeps people interested and talking about it

bit like game companies releasing trailers for specific parts of games

[restive rain]

thats what you do if you want to cause and extend drama, not lodge serious accusations lol

[stray sonnet]

yes but i've seen that happen alot of times

[agile verge]

Wow...

I wrote this whole summary... and warship auto deletes due to the word s e x ual...

And now I seem to have no way to retrieve or edit...

[vital blaze]

warship?

world of warshhips?

[limpid onyx]

The auto deletion bot

[agile verge]

Hi there. I bring bad news:
Your message has been CENSORED.
​
Reason
The filter was triggered by the following:
s e xual
​
Please refrain from this kind of behavior in the future. Thank you.

Note: Attempting to evade the filter will result in a ban.

If the content in the reason field does not match your message, it's likely you should check and/or change the syntax of your message.
Image

Linus Tech Tips•Today at 9:02 PM

[vital blaze]

ohhh

[neat kiln]

Yeah. Autobots terrible

[vital blaze]

that again

[neat kiln]

If you got anything iffy. Always copy it before sharing

If there's a filter dodge, copy first

Just in case

[agile verge]

I spent about 5 minutes writing a thorough summary to answer this...

Screw it.

My mistake for not copying first...

[cobalt trench]

as i learnt from kwite dont believe accusations like madisons unless there is actual evidence

[vital blaze]

kwite?

[cobalt trench]

she had 2 years to say something and is only just now saying something to bandwagon the controversy 💀

ye

[limpid onyx]

Lol could have answered with "Go watch the GN video and then the follow up video. And then go read Madisons thread"

[neat kiln]

Ehhhhh. Not really the best excuse

[cobalt trench]

kwite was a person who got abunch of bad false accusations thrown at him and literally everyone was saying he was a bad person

[neat kiln]

Many people wait longer.

[cobalt trench]

then he makes a humongous response vid proving it all wrong

[keen bloom]

fr, these people never heard of innocent till proven guilty

[cobalt trench]

i rlly hope people have learned from this same thing happening a million times

ye

one of the many reasons twitter sucks

[agile verge]

I mean, probably.

But it's more like:
Watch GN video 1.
Read Linus forum response.
Watch GN video 2.
Watch LMG video 1.
Find and read Madison's allegation.
Maybe read the Verge article.
Definitely read the official LMG statement.

(And that's just quite the to-do list.)

[cobalt trench]

unless madison has evidence no way im believing she stayed quiet on something for the 2 years she left the company till this controversy lol

[modern linden]

Or
Ignore the GN hit pieces
Read Madisons Tweet
Read the forum Post
Watch the LMG Video
Read the Verge Article

[limpid onyx]

Did Madison stream with Sarah after she quit or before? BC if it was after then wouldn't that mean she considers(ed) Sarah a friend in this whole fiasco

[vital blaze]

oh i remmeber that stream hm hard to say

[neat kiln]

Women have stayed quiet for decades it's easy to believe.

[keen bloom]

It aint the 60's anymore though is it

[neat kiln]

Ok?

[cobalt trench]

bro the me two thing is long over lol

[agile verge]

I mean, there are parts that were very valid criticism in the GN piece... it's too bad Steve undermined his own message with stuff that was more drama stirring than real feedback.

[limpid onyx]

Anyways I'm just thinking to into this too hard... 3rd party needs to come in to verify thimgs

[keen bloom]

90% of the stuff going on rn could literally just be solved with like a months worth of reforms

[cobalt trench]

If GN reached out to linus about the billet labs thing one of his biggest pieces of evidence wouldnt have been near as drama causing lol

which is why GN was definitely not being friendly with that vid by any means

[keen bloom]

Somebody suggested the government to verify it earlier 💀

[cobalt trench]

lmao

[restive rain]

but then when you dont belive the accuser it makes you look like a bad person

🙄

"hive mind"

[cobalt trench]

if you care about what those type of people think about you sure ig

but i would rather some sjw dinguses be mad at me then ruin peoples careers over false accusations could just be me tho

[agile verge]

Not going to disagree.
I am in no way saying that Steve was not taking advantage of this whole thing to blow up a controversy to Steve's benefit.
That being said, there are still elements that can be true within it.

[keen bloom]

I have a personal reason to listen to innocent till proven guilty as my cousins father took his own life after he got falsely accused of being a paedo and it ruined his life

[cobalt trench]

yea linus was definitely going way too fast than he should have

[vital blaze]

they also said thhey dont have to reach for comment but when they reported on newegg they tried to reach for comment all the time

[keen bloom]

def shoulda stayed quite for a bit-

[restive rain]

oh no i agree with you, false accusations can literally destroy some ones life and its rage inducing when that happens.

[keen bloom]

At least like 2 days

[cobalt trench]

altho to me it felt more resonable since it was with the new gpu launches which are always times of fast work in order to get the vids out first but still shouldnt have happened

[limpid onyx]

GN had no reason to BC billet provided evidence to GN that LMG wasnt responding to their (Billet) emails.

[modern linden]

100% and that's why im actually looking for an apology from Steve as well in how he handled his video.

[cobalt trench]

rip kwite 😭

[keen bloom]

Everybody in this situation did wrong

tbf

[cobalt trench]

Did you even watch the apology vid lol?

they did respond but they made a mistake and it didnt get sent to them

[restive rain]

lol you wont see an apology from Steve when most people are asking LINUS to THANK him

[cobalt trench]

it was a misscommunication issue not something with bad intentions

which it appears is lmg's biggest issue

they were going so fast lots of misscommunication was happening

[restive rain]

like jfc he does not need a thank you

lol

[keen bloom]

90% of the people arguing this just needs to get off their musty chair and touch grass

[restive rain]

fr

[keen bloom]

People are just throwing fuel into a growing fire

[modern linden]

I think for me it's harder to give Steve the benefit of the doubt here. This was premeditated over MONTHS and executed right after LTX so any failure of execution on his part or his reporting is seriously a big misstep and caused needless harm.

[agile verge]

Take it from someone working in a different tech company that could probably benefit from slowing down for a bit too and working out some processes (different problems than LMG has right now)...
The people who drive these things to grow think that taking that time will sink them.

[limpid onyx]

Ya how can you fuck up not sending the email to billet but to the precurement team and not notice for like a week

[cobalt trench]

Ive sent an email to the wrong person before

You dont rlly notice unless you think you did something wrong

[restive rain]

communication breakdown, its understandable tbh

[keen bloom]

Your in a hurry and also email ui's are so dog

[cobalt trench]

Which is why they do infact rlly need to start double checking things

im not defending that part

[modern linden]

I can tell by this sentence you have never worked in corporate world, this is super common.

[neat kiln]

You mean a single business day?

[cobalt trench]

But GN made it appear like Linus is some evil person who knowingly auctioned off their product and refused to respond back to them

[neat kiln]

They sent the email on Friday. Video dropped on monday

[cobalt trench]

(clearly is not the case)

[agile verge]

To be fair...
According to the timeline that response was sent out on August 10th?
And then there was no response from Billit (because they were not included).
I would argue there was a duty to follow up on the lack of response and hopefully realize your fuck up.

[keen bloom]

Bro the CEO must be fuming, bro comes in and like a month later the volcano explodes

[cobalt trench]

Yea im not defending that whatsoever

[limpid onyx]

Nope construction.. heavily rely on the outdated phone calls

[keen bloom]

Tbf they could of just been thinking, maybe they took the weekend off as its not usual business days

[cobalt trench]

Im just saying the people who accuse LTT of being some evil corp because of it need to use their brain lol

[modern linden]

I think part of the problem with the public court of opinion here is the Gamer/Tech/Nerd Audience skews younger, people who have never worked in a company before are being shown a LOT of more complex behind the scenes processes and calling foul when there are normal business mistakes that everyone makes constantly that we can and should give them a pass on. Such as the email thing, it's a small misstep, but a very annoying one for everyone involved.

[cobalt trench]

Which is why GN obviously wasnt just doing this out of a friendly reminder to do better

[neat kiln]

Not something to be proud of when you're talking out of your ass about a situation you don't know

[vital blaze]

thats for damn sure and have no idea about economics/business

[agile verge]

Well, so, I think this was premeditated over months, but Steve was waiting for something of the Billit auction caliber to bring this home.
Remember, all of Steve's reports of this nature require a flashy in your face anchor.
In this case... "how could you auction off something that doesn't belong to you?"

[cobalt trench]

Thats sorta what i always get mad about with redditors lmao, people acting like they know everything when in reality they know absolutely nothing

[stray sonnet]

i know some people who are 18-19 who have never even worked a job besides school or anything and they're gonna be in for a treat when they need to find a job after they're done with school

[cobalt trench]

fr

[keen bloom]

fr I may work in a shoddy corner shop part time but I still deal with deliveries, having to communicate between different groups and more that can be applicable to see this situation

[keen bloom]

18 without a job thats mad

[agile verge]

Sending it wrongly is easy...
Not noticing it for a week means you have a process failure.

[cobalt trench]

thats the main critism

[neat kiln]

Where is this week timeline coming from

[keen bloom]

fr

[neat kiln]

It still hasn't been a week

Since that email

[cobalt trench]

they should be double checking what happens (no matter if its a few hours or days)

[neat kiln]

The first one

[modern linden]

yup, someone should have been in charge of solely the Auction items and they failed

[cobalt trench]

But if GN reached out beforehand he wouldnt have had as big of a drama starter so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stray sonnet]

yup, one of them is a spoiled child sadly. he recently went on a trip to a different country to go work, he worked 1 day at a bar or something and had to do actual effort and just quit and now parties the whole week on his parents money

[modern linden]

I want to put this on a Billboard

[neat kiln]

Did you eat h the video?
At all? LTTs response video?

[cobalt trench]

fr

[neat kiln]

Watch* but I'll take eat

[keen bloom]

People in General when the realise that everybody is in the wrong 🤯

[agile verge]

I think someone had a stat that GN got at least 250k subs out of all this?

[neat kiln]

Colton took responsibility for the communication error and the auction

[cobalt trench]

oh yea this was def a boost to his channel and he knows it

[modern linden]

yeah I watched it and the buck stops with Colton, but he really should have delegated that whole process if he didn't in the first place.

[cobalt trench]

the vid has 3.1 million views

him turning monitization off meant literally nothing lol

[cobalt trench]

idk current stats but it did have 3.1 million

but theres no way GN released this video without knowing it would blow up

[stray sonnet]

ofcourse he does

[cobalt trench]

(also why he didnt care about contacting linus beforehand)

[restive rain]

-- he still made moeny from the super comments or whatever its called

[keen bloom]

according to social blade hes got like a huge peak of subs recently
https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/gamers_nexus

[cobalt trench]

ik lmao i saw that

[mystic idol]

3.1 million views at $3.00 per cpm is $9300 he lost out on by turning off monetization

[cobalt trench]

he is able to turn those off I believe so he wanst compeltely genuine when he turned monitization off either

[mystic idol]

Idk about you but $9300 is a lot

[neat kiln]

Not too much to a business

[keen bloom]

Fr

[cobalt trench]

yes but he woudlnt have made that much on a normal video anyways

the long term growth he got out of this is much more valuable

[keen bloom]

Its enough to notice a difference but enough to recover

[modern linden]

What we really need after all of this is over and resolved to everyone's satisfaction is a Jousting match between Linus and Steve

[cobalt trench]

look how much views the follow up video has

[limpid onyx]

That's a rounding error (Linus)

[stone bear]

we just learned the value of 500$ lol

[agile verge]

Eh, I don't know if Colton should have delegated.
Sounds like he is the right person to be in charge here, but has processes to improve on.

[cobalt trench]

without this situation it would just be another 200-300k viewed video like normal

or less

[hardy obsidian]

Tbf, GN doesn't work out of the kindness of his heart. Ofc he wants to earn money.

But the way he tried to overinflate a communication error on a (in business quantities) cheap product was ew.

[mystic idol]

Even big businesses don't just throw away 9300 dollars on a whim dude

[modern linden]

it's a good joke.... a great joke even.... but man...... 😄

[keen bloom]

People forget alot of the people who watch LTT, probably don't even care about this and are casuals who watch him because its easy to consume content

[cobalt trench]

like i said its a huge net gain even if he turned it off

[hardy obsidian]

Sure linus NEEDED the 2000 dollars and willingly throws the companies rep under the bus for so true!

[modern linden]

Disney's Starcruiser Hotel would like a word 😄 (im kidding i know that's a totally different scale and kinda irrelevant)

[restive rain]

Tbf, GN doesn't work out of the kindness of his heart. Ofc he wants to earn money.
yes, but its disingenuis presenting it like it is out of the kindness of his heart which he did

[agile verge]

I kind of wonder if Steve is letting the whole reaper meme get to his head...

The Newegg piece was good journalism.
The Asus hit was sloppy.
The LMG one is the sloppiest yet.

[mystic idol]

He didn't get $9300 in super chats, and you would criticize him even if he made 0 dollars from this video. Just because GN got more subs doesn't mean he did it for the money

[agile verge]

(Regarding Asus, Steve made a mountain out of a boilerplate language mole hill.)

[hardy obsidian]

It should be known by anyone, that both linus and gn don't work for free. As much as you wouldn't work for free. In the end, they are both businesses with their very own egoistical business goals

[keen bloom]

Everybody is wrong in the situation
Most people will forget by the end of the month
At least LTT will slow down the content

[cobalt trench]

If he didnt do it for (the obvious) long term massive growth like I said he would have contacted Linus beforehand and his main drama starting piece would not exist. Like I said he would not have made 9300 on any normal video, and the long term view count he KNEW would make him much more money then if he didnt cover the LTT situation or didnt make it seem much worse

[modern linden]

My issues with Steve's Video
-It comes across as a TMZ style hit piece with sprinkings of "journalistic integrity"
-His products are displayed PROMINENTLY
-Donations are on for that video (if you have to turn them off channel wide then do it)
-He -NEVER- contacted Linus and stated that was HIS decision

[hardy obsidian]

As far as I am concerned, I'll keep watching because its interesting and youtube will shove it down my throat anyway

[hardy obsidian]

I am pretty sure you can not turn off donations on a per video basis.

[cobalt trench]

GN is not ignorant and the 9300 dosnt matter if he can make 1k+ more on future videos

[keen bloom]

Why did I think your pfp was people in really good camo lol

[mystic idol]

Super chats are channel wide

Also GN didn't shove products in your face. Unlike the apology vid with the screwdriver

[cobalt trench]

they can be turned off i believe

[mystic idol]

For every video

Not individually

[cobalt trench]

every youtuber will push their merch

[modern linden]

I just edited my comment, then turn it off channel wide until the hype dies down

[hardy obsidian]

No, they can not. Only channel wide

[cobalt trench]

either way he could have temporarily turned them off till people formed actual opinions

[modern linden]

real question is, what IS my profile pic 🙂

[cobalt trench]

point is both gn and ltt are not in the right

[mystic idol]

Steve didn't even talk about his merch, he just didn't bother removing them from the set. The video description had no link to the merch store.

Meanwhile the apology video shilled the merch store, the screwdriver, the description had merch links, and monetization was on

These are some ridiculous double standards

[hardy obsidian]

Sorry that its german, just my screenshot. But this is just channel wide settings. There is not point in turning that off imo

[tired topaz]

yea i was surprised monetization was on to begin with

[agile verge]

It's a map with a highway interchange.
Satelite view is on but the roads are yellow.
I cannot give you location.

[keen bloom]

"shilled" its just the default description they set in youtube settings and the merch mention was a joke

[keen bloom]

its just on by default, easy to forget

[modern linden]

Happiest place on earth. (tm)

[cobalt trench]

LTT has a whole catalogue of items that are quality and that he worked hard for, its not like they are cheap t shirts or something lmao. Its also an inside joke that they always do this, and its not something people who normally watch his channel get mad about

[cobalt trench]

ye but he could have if he wanted to truely get no monetary gain from it

[agile verge]

I prefer less car infrastructure...

[restive rain]

honestly lets be real, who gives 2 fs if they have monitization on or not

its not the end of the word either way

like jfc

[mystic idol]

Here's the thing - you don't joke about this kind of shit if you want to be taken seriously. Steve at least had the foresight to not try and peddle his products when making a very serious video, whereas LMG clearly didn't have an issue doing so

It doesn't matter if LMG's products are better

[keen bloom]

the mob who seem to think if you make one mistake you should be tied to the stake and burnt

[modern linden]

It's Disney, you barely notice the car infra, it's a big property

[mystic idol]

And also I will say, I have the LTT backpack and the zippers are shit. And they still haven't sent out fixed zippers after a year

[agile verge]

Fair enough.

[keen bloom]

Your acting like as if linus himself said it, fucking hell man its just a joke that they made not like they done a kidnapping in the middle of it

[cobalt trench]

LMG was NEVER meant to be taken completely seriously, that is literally the point of their channel (to appeal to the masses). There is a reason that super statistical channels like GN dont get anywhere near as much views as LTT.

They serve overlapping but also different audiences

[mystic idol]

These execs are the face of LMG, yes they represent the brand and they represent Linus

[restive rain]

they are working on them, producing 500k+ of a product takes time lmao, also the sippers are just the industry standered iirc

[keen bloom]

fr 1 GN video hurts my head but I can watch 10 linus videos just fine

[tired topaz]

i just wanna know if wan will happen

[hard lintel]

hey uh quick question why does any of these tiny details matter

for either channel

[cobalt trench]

LTT's best content will always be the house vids in my opinion

[restive rain]

we dont know

[restive rain]

they dont

its just something to argue over

pass time

you know?

[mystic idol]

So what's the big deal when GN works on these stories that get a lot of views? LMG has done this too, they kept monetization on, and there were no issues there

[keen bloom]

fr

[limpid onyx]

He didn't work hard for the merch..
He paid a bunch of people to create the merch for his business. That's like saying Elon is responsible for the battery pack design in Tesla's.

[keen bloom]

Better than arguing over not proven yet allegations

[tender prism]

Do people know what an allegation is?

[restive rain]

lol go back to construction

[hard lintel]

if theres nothing worthwhile to argue about then dont argue at all

[tired topaz]

we'll just have to wait and see what that investigator comes up with

[neat kiln]

given that linus himself has been testing every major product and has the ideas himself, her certainly does more than musk

[keen bloom]

You claim something that didn't happen

well with at least no proof

[tender prism]

This is an example of an allegation

[cobalt trench]

When has LMG done what GN did?

[limpid onyx]

Oh boy. Guess I'm a pedo now lol

[cobalt trench]

would like to see the vid

[hard lintel]

i can feel public chat leaking in

[tender prism]

You can relax, it's just an allegation

[tired topaz]

it may or may not have happened, not just blanket "didnt happen"

[restive rain]

jesus

you people

[keen bloom]

look at my followup sentence god damn

[cobalt trench]

Lmao bro you have no idea dont even act like you know. Do you think he just spontaneously started doing high quality merch with 0 effort?

[keen bloom]

Real, I came here because of the 1m timeout in public

[cobalt trench]

And yes Elon is responsible for the battery packs in Tesla's because it was his vision and funding that led to them being created

[hard lintel]

remove the timeout in public i dont want everyone from there coming in here

[cobalt trench]

He isnt solely responsible but he IS reponsible

[tired topaz]

yes i saw it, but that couldve been put in the original message

[neat kiln]

Yeah public chat has invaded earlier today.

[keen bloom]

You think people think all at once?

[tender prism]

But anyway, I hope people learn what an allegation is today. At least something constructive happened.

[keen bloom]

People think in stages

Words before sentences

not sentences then words

[neat kiln]

It feels clear that people who never watch wan are in the wan channel

[tired topaz]

true

[tender prism]

Does anyone else not understand what an allegation is?

[hard lintel]

all the public folks are gonna put a 1 minute slowdown on my synapses

[keen bloom]

So if an amazon worker dies of dehydration on the job, its amazons fault for not waterboarding them?

[tired topaz]

it feels like wan chat has morphed into another place to talk about the controversy minus as many people and slow mode

[keen bloom]

Yes

Preciecly that

[hard lintel]

Many people hailed this chat as the most sane the past few days

[tired topaz]

usually theres nobody in this channel this time of the week

[restive rain]

yes, becasue its easier to have a conversation where people are not going bat sh-- insane and you don't have a one minute slow mode

[keen bloom]

fr

[neat kiln]

I took it as a place to talk about controversy for the wan folks. People who are actually there every week to discuss and who see the behind the scenes takes

But now those who haven't seen a minute of wan are here

[tender prism]

I feel like we have a few of the public chatters in here still

[keen bloom]

I watch the highlights because its when I am asleep usually frfr

[restive rain]

better then the aunslaught of normal public chat

[restive rain]

watch teh full vod the next day

[tender prism]

It's easy to sniff them out

[restive rain]

thats what i do

[tired topaz]

im usually here for at least the time b4 wan starts

[keen bloom]

They do that? fr didn't know 😂

[tender prism]

I usually listen to WAN while driving

[hard lintel]

the times when i catch wan live are really nice. otherwise i just watch the clips

[restive rain]

ltt channel -> live page

[keen bloom]

cheers

[tender prism]

WAN clips are quite nice

[restive rain]

mhm!

[hard lintel]

im glad i got to watch ltx wan live that was fun

[neat kiln]

Wan clips just don't have everything unfortunately

[tired topaz]

depending on how late it starts, which is usually pretty late, ill just put it off until saturday

[neat kiln]

I've tended to either catch the shows life or listen the next few days while at work

[keen bloom]

Fr it starts at 1am for me

and ends at like 7am

[tender prism]

public-toast can have all the brigaders and reactionaries. I'm going to keep this channel clean from the same recycled nonesense the put out there

[keen bloom]

Public is just a line of people arguing who need to open their windows for air

[tender prism]

I listen to them at work too

[tender prism]

It's quite hilarious. Terren Tong hires a 3rd party investigator to look into the allegations and people complain about that. What would LMG do then? Should they just fire everyone involved and close the company down?

[keen bloom]

Somebody asked for the goverment 💀

As if they don't have better things to do

[neat talon]

That 3rd party investigator is needed, honestly without it I wouldn't trust any findings

[agile verge]

A friend just linked me this.
I feel even more mixed on the whole Billet Labs part of this now...
The part was originally given, with intent to keep without cost.
Then, because it wasn't liked was supposed to be returned and "budgeted accordingly".
Then a price given.
Then auctioned...
I mean, the whole back and forth just adds a lot of opportunities for human and process errors.
I don't even know that this is no longer meeting my expectations.

[keen bloom]

The FBI investigating the FBI finds nothing wrong vibes fr

[tender prism]

That's a great idea. LMG should tell Trudeau and the government of Canada to stop what they're doing and look into these allegations

Anything less is not satisfactory

[keen bloom]

10th was a thursday?

So there was 1 business day

[agile verge]

Well, but then we'll get all tripped over plastic bottles vs paper/cardboard plastic bottles and eh...

[restive rain]

it was auctioned before the price was given

[agile verge]

(If you haven't see this clip, it's excellent. It's truly one of the politicians answering a question of all time.)

[tender prism]

I tend to lean towards a bunch of miscommunication and human errors happening between Billet Labs and LMG. It's such a stupid opinion to think LMG wanted to destroy Billet Labs. I think different people in LMG made an honest mistake and they need to correct it which they are doing.

[restive rain]

thats a horrible take, whoever has that needs to rethink life

[neat talon]

The issue for me is if you agreed to send it back you should. And it's to flat out unethical to sell review samples, the ones that contain IP that isn't released to the public. I don't care if it was for charity, if you're going to sell a prototype or review samples in general you should get permission from the supplier.

[neat kiln]

Half the people here don't know how to read.

[agile verge]

I don't disagree with you on the IP front (I'm an IP attorney).
But I also get from an inventory management front you are adding a lot of potential points of error when you go from:

1. No return
2. Must return

People can and will treat those differently, for good reason.
And there are now additional opportunities for error.

[tender prism]

The people in public toast have made up their minds. Anything LMG does is wrong and everyone against LMG is perfect. That's why we have a couple of people in here who can't get over the statement that GamersNexus blindsided LMG.

[clever plank]

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/labour-contact.html

good thing they have a thing for that

[tender prism]

No no, that ain't enough. Trudeu should be on the phone.

[agile verge]

I worked a retail job where we also did boarding of plants for people.
We treated boarded inventory, where it had an owner to be returned to, differently than our own.
Customer inventory was much better tracked and handled.

[neat talon]

I can completely understand the potential for error if A change is made between returning and not returning, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that you're selling a review sample. Like I don't have an issue with them giving it to their staff once it's out of date but you should never be selling it. And if you want to do a charity event just send an email and ask your representative from that company.

I'm going to be blunt here because of this entire situation I did a lot more digging into lmg's policies I read through their leaked handbook and I see a lot of discrepancies between what Linus says on the wan show, and what is actually put on paper. There are policies, and their benefits are not what linus is portrays to his community. Some of the policies in my opinion are unethical, and the benefits are frankly worse than the majority of companies I've worked for in my life. For a job that should be considered a career they have basically no good benefits to be honest

[cobalt trench]

they just doin some wierd toast memes rn ig

[clever plank]

imagine if they sold an Intel engineering sample

they'd be underwater with that lawsuit

[neat talon]

They would be sued into non-existence if that happened

[tender prism]

I think the mods cleaned up that place. It was very different in the morning

[clever plank]

like that is a incredibly problematic flaw to have with your logistics

thats how you get sued into oblivion

idk just hope things like that are fixed up

[neat talon]

I hope those things get fixed, and I hope the work life balance issue gets fixed as well

[agile verge]

Just remember that they would have signed a contract opening themselves up to that possibility.

[restive rain]

the billet labs situation is basically resolved by now

if they are happy with the payment what more could you ask

[clever plank]

it shows a level of incompetence/mismanagement in logistics from a company that gets early review samples all the time

like if they actioned off a pre-release review sample of the next gen RTX cards, they'd be destroyed

[tender prism]

Despite all my criticisms, GamersNexus did bring up a lot of valid points and I think LMG is going to self-reflect and learn from all this

I expect a lot of improvements

[agile verge]

Do you have specific examples?
Also, do you know for sure that de facto matches de jure?

[wanton token]

they will probably still talk about some on the wan

[neat kiln]

Lmg has been reflecting for some time on the errors in their work andattempts to resolve them

It's why I mention when it's clear people talking in the chat haven't watched wan where they talk about it

[tender prism]

Oh they've definitely been doing that all the time

[agile verge]

As someone who has watched the WAN shows and regularly does my impression is that Linus recognizes the problem but had not yet come to a conclusion that matched its scope.
The crowd sourcing idea was a bit juvenile in my opinion.
The corporate video today felt better because there was a department head in charge of QC.

[neat talon]

A really good example of policies I find to be misrepresented to the community as well as unethical is this one.

"20. Working Hours
At Linus Media Group, our core work hours are 9:00am to 5:30pm PST Monday to Friday. We make every
effort to stick to the core schedule due to the collaborative nature of our work, however, to properly
conduct our business, we do require employees to be available evenings and weekends. Notice will be
given at least 24 hours in advance for work scheduled outside core hours unless the employee agrees to
less notice."

Essentially what this policy allows them to do is for them to tell someone on Saturday that they have to be there on Sunday and if they're not there they can write them up for it. Additionally requiring someone be available basically all the time with only 24 hours notice is ridiculous. I'd be a lot more forgiving if they said a week's notice. But 24 hours notice is not enough time for that "work life balance" Linus likes to talk about.

[agile verge]

("Juvenile" isn't quite the right term, but more so that it came across as immature.)

[tiny girder]

I don't spend every moment on reddit and discord. So I just now found out about the ltt controversies. Came on here and Holy shit even the Wan show page is going nuts.

[neat kiln]

There are a lot of jobs. Especially tech and IT related that are on call

[agile verge]

Again, I ask my de jure vs. de facto question...

[neat kiln]

It's not really that unusual in the IT space. And I assume that when they have that in the handbook, it's probably not for the creative team

[tiny girder]

So question for you all
No Wan show this Friday?
Or Dan and Luke Wan with maybe Taryn taking the place of Linus?

[agile verge]

I've worked jobs with on-call work.
I don't necessarily get 24-hour notice.

[neat kiln]

Sometimes it's "be there 20 minutes ago"

[agile verge]

Personally I would not have Linus on the WAN show this Friday.
He speaks too freely and gets too emotional and this is NOT the time for that.

[neat talon]

These aren't those kind of jobs though, if you work in a job that requires that kind of behavior you already know that going into it. With the exception of the managers there is no job at lmg that should be required to be on call or anywhere near that

[clever plank]

i worked distribution and had variable saturdays as work days. They'd tell us at the start of the week

[agile verge]

But it is that kind of job for Jake and Luke and others.
And it may be that kind of job for an editor if there is a last minute correction needed.

[tiny girder]

They claimed no video for a week, so they may not even have the Wan show

[neat kiln]

Their IT team and development teams? Anything during the hack

If forums go out on the weekend they'll still want to bring them back that weekend

[clever plank]

company wide vs department wide policies

[neat talon]

They don't have a real it team, and the people who cover those roles are managers

[neat kiln]

Unsure of their hourly vs salary ratio, but salary jobs tend to have more on call/short notice positions

[neat talon]

I've worked on call jobs before, but never have I seen a company that states they have to be available with only 24 hours to all of their employees. That's typically a role specific thing

[agile verge]

Look @neat talon, I'm not saying that the agreed upon contract is not permissive in terms of the demands that they're allowed to make.
It is.
But I also don't think that it is necessarily inappropriate for a number of the employees that work there.
So, the question is...

1. What is the policy as written?
2. What is the work/life balance as experienced by the employees that work there?
3. Are the employees happy with the balance?

What you showed only answers 1).
And I'm not willing to condemn anyone with just 1).

[neat kiln]

It really does depend how they enact those policies.

[agile verge]

I'm in the US.
Both my spouse and I have had less in broader contracts across a LOT of roles.

[clever plank]

it does but its an odd thing to write in a contract

its not typical

especially not for all employees

[agile verge]

Nope, it's fairly common legal boilerplate.

[neat kiln]

If they just use a standard contract across all employees

[clever plank]

no its not, i've worked in these kinds of jobs before and the notice is much longer

[neat kiln]

Which isn't uncommon

[agile verge]

Probably comes off a standard in the province.

[neat talon]

I guess I take the view that if it's written down a bad manager can enforce it as it's written, they may not enforce it as it's written but the fact it's written in their handbook is a red flag. It's in the handbook itself

[clever plank]

^

[agile verge]

Have you ever worked as a manager before?

If I were to strictly write all my reports up based on the handbook when they are otherwise doing a good job my superior would have fired me.

[clever plank]

that's not what hes saying though

hes saying a bad manager could suddenly call you in on 24 hours notice and that shouldnt be a thing

[neat talon]

The majority of my jobs have been as a manager. I'm usually pretty lenient on policies I disagree with. And I don't believe in writing someone up for every little thing. But regardless of that there are lots of managers out there who do, and the fact that's in writing means they can enforce those policies to either fire you or push you out of the workplace

[agile verge]

That's nice as a labor protection in the countries that have it (and boy would it be nice if all of them did) but not all countries grant that level of worker's rights...
And this stuff is pretty standard in the US from my experience.

[neat kiln]

My last job had mandatory overtime

[agile verge]

So, you'll excuse me for not crying foul.
Granted, maybe it's not legal in Canada, I don't know.

[neat kiln]

Actually 2 jobs ago. But still

I've got a friend working there where they only get the notice the day before

And that's in manufacturing

[clever plank]

yea but that's manufacturing

this is schedualed video production

its not the same industry

[agile verge]

And any place with good control over its managers shouldn't allow a bad manager ruin things for otherwise good employees, if they do it's a failure of leadership.

[neat kiln]

Manufacturing is scheduled.
They're more similar than you might think

[agile verge]

Hence, why again, I point to what is de jure vs de facto.

You can have anything you want in writing that is legal within a given jurisdiction. What matters is what you do with it.

[neat kiln]

You think companies go "oi imma just manufacture 20k units today no boig deal"?

[neat talon]

I was the store manager at a cell phone store years ago, and I took over a new location and my district manager said I had to cull the current staff because in general their numbers weren't very good. So I had to write them up for every little thing they didn't do properly. And the reason I had to do this was so we didn't get sued for wrongful termination because in my state we have pretty strong workers protection laws. These kind of rules are anti-employee, and should not be a thing in a company that says they're for their employees and they would be disappointed if they felt their employees had to unionize.

Basically I'm the type of person that says if you believe in a tenant put it in writing and don't go against that tenant in your policies

[neat kiln]

They go overtime because of deadlines. Just like video production. Just like video games

[neat talon]

And in cases like that they can very easily make a rotating overtime schedule for their employees to eliminate any possible confusion

[agile verge]

The fact that they had you do this so precisely what about your district management before you got to this position?

[neat kiln]

Manufacturing. Call centers. Rarely construction. But moving companies might

[neat talon]

There's a big difference in between claiming your for your employees and actually putting policies in place that will truly benefit your employees.

[neat kiln]

Rotating doesn't happen when it's all hands on deck. The plant I used to work at was like that for months

All I'm saying is this isn't some unicorn uncommon thing you're claiming it to be

[neat talon]

Typically though those kind of companies have it in their contracts that there's mandatory overtime during busy season

[agile verge]

Yeah, and there's a big difference between what you do in practice and what you rely on when you've mismanaged something to the point where you need to cull employees.

[neat kiln]

It exists. And it's very common for companies to have 24 hour notice

[neat talon]

Honestly I left that company shortly after starting at that new location because I didn't like what the district manager was pushing me to do. I'm not sure of the particular details of what happened at that location prior to me taking it over though

[agile verge]

Like sorry, but your cell phone retail district sucked.
And hey, you were the willing sucker to help make everyone else pay for their mistakes and make you the bad guy in the process.

[clever plank]

yea but this isn't a good thing?

just because its common doesnt make it good

and i dont see it often tbh

[neat kiln]

And just because it exists in a contract doesn't make it automatically bad

[agile verge]

My spouse and I have spent a fair amount of time in four+ nines businesses... This is common for us.

[clever plank]

i dont have that big of a problem with it as long as its not actually happening

[neat talon]

I see it in manufacturing businesses a lot, but general office work I never see these kinds of things written into the manuals. And half of lmg is office style work.

[clever plank]

but i'd hope they arent using that for company wide policy

[dusky seal]

I hope wan show isn't cancelled this week

[clever plank]

because there's certain roles where you need them sooner than that lol

[neat talon]

It's in their employees handbook...

[clever plank]

idk labor laws kinda suck everywhere

[neat kiln]

Labor laws are better in Canada than the US

[agile verge]

So, I highly doubt that Sarah gets called into the office on a weekend much.
Or heck, most of the filming staff or writing staff.
But I can certainly see it for an occasional edit, most of the Floatplane staff, all the IT / infrastructure staff.

[neat kiln]

I could see a potential for a filming staff in an event

[cobalt trench]

im bored back here to argue

u could say my toast got stale

jajaj

[clever plank]

yea thats expected honestly

[agile verge]

And, as we've seen so far, LMG is pretty loose on its corporate policies and has grown faster than it has matured.
So, them having a single handbook is... par for the course?

[clever plank]

like im not gonna specifically decry them for that

[agile verge]

So BIG, and I mean, BIG SHRUG

[clever plank]

i just dont like the idea of a policy like that in general, for any company

[neat talon]

You're probably right on that to be honest, to me it just feels disingenuous for that to be written into the handbook when he talks about how employee friendly his company is.

I guess I would prefer to have a longer notice written. And then have it in writing that particular roles we'll have a rotating schedule that will have shorter notice. That would be employee friendly while still maintaining the need they have

[agile verge]

Hey, I'd love to be German where my employer can get fined for emailing me outside of hours...
But I'm not... so... ce la vie.

[clever plank]

it just seems like LMG needs a corporate restructuring

ngl

[agile verge]

(I have German colleagues for whom this is the case, I work for a multinational, I'm jealous.)

[agile verge]

Corporate structuring*
(fixed it for you, "re" would imply they had it in the first place.)

[clever plank]

(which it seems like they are doing by the way)

[cobalt trench]

probs

[bitter heron]

I've had about 10 managers in the past 15 years; from absolutely amazing to unpleasant; I've also worked lots of unpaid OT (I did 2 hours tonight actually). I'm salary though not hourly; I do get time in lieu but I honestly have more time off then I can spend so its sort of moot. But I also slacked off a bit this afternoon watching this stuff in here so it balances I suppose.

It hasn't happened in ages, but I did have one office move (of the 6 or so I've done) where one month I worked enough OT that the OT payment on my next paycheque was more than base salary.

[cobalt trench]

all ltt did wrong in this situation was go abit too fast during some product launches and have some preventable communication issues

[neat talon]

And while this wasn't my only gripe by the way with the handbook, a bunch of the other ones I have may be related to restrictions based upon Canada's labor laws and I don't know enough about their labor laws to make it fair judgment on it.

[agile verge]

I'm salary as well.

[cobalt trench]

something gn could have got accross if he cared at all about being friendly to ltt 💀

[bitter heron]

A bad or good manager can still call you up on short notice for something (I work in IT, that's just "hey something broke and we're escalating to you, all hands on deck") with zero notice, but its pretty much always "thanks, take next friday off" as a result.

[clever plank]

i mean no

[cobalt trench]

what else?

[clever plank]

the BL cooler block thing was agregious

[bitter heron]

But I know some people have low tolerance for things like that - I have friends that were in the same IT/computer degree as me in college who have openly said they couldn't work the hours/way I do.

[clever plank]

not based on that specific thing but on principle

[cobalt trench]

looking at the fundementals of it all it seems like thats the issue

[clever plank]

replace that cooler block for an intel engineering sample

if they refused to return it to intel for months, and then auctioned it, they'd be so sued

[cobalt trench]

lots of the statistic issues were from the 40 series launch which would of course mean they were working faster than normal

in order to get a vid out as soon as the nda's dropped

[simple zealot]

well there is the Madison issue too.

[cobalt trench]

also they most likely only had 1 sample

[clever plank]

yes but im waiting for more on that

[agile verge]

My work ethic at a salary job means that over six years I make more than double what I was hired at at the same company...
So... I'm okay with it.

[simple zealot]

to cap it all off

[clever plank]

like honestly they might wanna bring on some more corporate officers

[bitter heron]

Yeah in...12 years I've tripled my starting salary.

[cobalt trench]

im not even considering that unless there is evidence

[simple zealot]

@clever plank agreed

[clever plank]

i mean i am considering it but i want to hear more and see some evidence

[cobalt trench]

as ive been saying the Kwite situation shows that you shouldnt be guilty till proven innocent

seems like some ppl still have not learned that ig

[clever plank]

its not like Kwite honestly

[cobalt trench]

how so?

[clever plank]

like it'd be almost impossible to document all these things

[agile verge]

So, just asking for a second of critical thought here...
But, if this was an Intel engineering sample, with all the red tape and additional liability that entails, do you think it would have come within a tighter process or not?

[cobalt trench]

not rlly

she could have told someone she trusted, wrote it down, and other things

[neat talon]

I'm kind of holding off on the Madison issue since they have a third party investigator looking into it. If what she said is true it's really really bad, but if things were misconstrued perhaps then that might be forgivable with a correction.

The big one was the only fan thing, in the United States that would be breaking several laws to force an employee to manage an only fans when that wasn't part of their job description (and being a social media manager wouldn't cover that kind of job)

[clever plank]

all prototype/review samples should be treated with the same red tape

[bitter heron]

But I also work with a fantastic team. We actually talk non-work stuff a lot, have a dedicated meeting on Friday's just to shoot the shit and play games and such. I can take time off without much of a worry. I don't have to take time off for dentist/doctor appointments - Just toss it in my calendar, give the team a heads up, and make it up elsewhere (or don't because I probably already did).

[agile verge]

You sweet idealist.

[clever plank]

just because the threat of legal annialation looms over your head from intel doesnt mean you can treat a startup company's sample worse

[simple zealot]

that is fair.

[clever plank]

how is that idealism? its a review sample that was still kind of the property of the company

[vital blaze]

i cant say that site

[cobalt trench]

the fact that madison comes out with accusations 2 years late to backpedle of controversy to me says all i need to know

[agile verge]

I mean the company originally said they could keep it.
And only changed their tune after the negative review.
Do you think an Intel example would ever be subject to such loose practices from Intel?

[cobalt trench]

i would happily accept evidence though

[vital blaze]

only fan? was it for the joke video?

[cobalt trench]

Yes

[neat talon]

I agree with this ideal, but it's frankly unrealistic. Small companies will always reach out to a YouTuber with 16 million subscribers, but at the end of the day in video Intel could never send LTT another sample and it really wouldn't affect them that much

[simple zealot]

@cobalt trench it depends on if she signed something when she left and it, perhaps, expired.

[clever plank]

remember when there was big drama over nVidia doing this to hardware unboxed?

[simple zealot]

@clever plank yeah, that was crazy

[cobalt trench]

You think she signed a nda about her expiriences with the company and it happened to expire a day after the controvery? Lol??

[agile verge]

I'm sorry, but in no world does the "Intel Engineering Sample" and "Billet Labs Prototype" fall into the same fact pattern that you're trying to shoe them into.

[neat talon]

It was supposed to be for joke video, but she claims that she had to manage it and saw a bunch of explicit images and a bunch of explicit messages

[cobalt trench]

Not to mention you have a right to break a nda for things like that

[clever plank]

not in canada

[dusky seal]

how? any other time if she said this no one would have listened and it would have been a disaster for her

[vital blaze]

thhats weird it seemed like a one time thing very odd

[clever plank]

in canada you can report any workplace harassment despite an NDA

[simple zealot]

not necessarily that it expired at that time, but perhaps the timing seemed appropriate to her.

[neat talon]

They got backlash because they pulled their review samples because they didn't give a good review. If they pulled their samples because of a leak or they sold their prototype it would be completely different story

[cobalt trench]

How is backpelding off controversy making her seem any more legit

[simple zealot]

but that is all conjecture.

[cobalt trench]

IF anything majority of the people will think its fake

[simple zealot]

We will see what the 3rd party investigation yields

[clever plank]

im saying it'd be a major issue for LMG

regardless of the reason

[cobalt trench]

WE have all seen this issue happen so many times why do you guys never learn breh

Its innocent till proven guilty for a reason

[dusky seal]

You're saying that it's invalid because she didn't say something right away, that sounds like victim blaming

[neat talon]

There's a few statements in there I question to be honest, but the majority of what she said lines up with her glass door review

[clever plank]

just because a smaller company doesnt have the same experience with this kind of thing that major manufactures with armies of lawyers do doesnt mean you can just toss their products off to anyone

[vital blaze]

is that still up

[neat kiln]

It very much is victim blaming. I told someone to fuck out a here with that shit earlier.
But seems clear that more people will just come

[neat talon]

Yeah the glass door review still up

[cobalt trench]

Im not saying its invalid, it could still be possible. But I am not considering it true unless she can back it up in any meaningful way, and backpedaling off a controversy is not a good way to go through with exposing someone and is extremely suspicious. NOT TO MENTION WE HAVE SEEN THIS SO MANY TIMES BEFORE

[dusky seal]

I've seen a bunch of it earlier too. It sucks.

[clever plank]

its called being compassionate for the victim while wating for the facts

you can be compassionate for the situation someone is in without taking everything at face value

[vital blaze]

wtf y is glassdoor making me register just to look at the damn site

[clever plank]

"oh that really sucks but im waiting for more information before i form my whole opinion"

[agile verge]

But this is a key factor:
Billet Labs' original intent was not to get the sample back.
This means we are in a VERY DIFFERENT set of waters than an Intel Engineering Sample or really ANY prototype with a strong NDA and a MUST RETURN.

[dusky seal]

I'm not saying that what she says is true. I'm saying that insinuating someone's SA/SH allegations are invalid because they weren't said right away is victim blaming. Ignore this situation specifically.

[cobalt trench]

No, you can be compassionate for the victim if they provide actual grounds to their claims. And we all know that when you post accusations on twitter that you expect lots of people to turn against the person who is being accused, dont even act like that isnt the goal here

[clever plank]

but the further problem is they agreed to send it back

[clever plank]

where else to post accusations?

[cobalt trench]

Once again if she posted evidence it would be completely different, but she didnt and is doing it right after a controversy. If you want your critisims to be valid, then you make them valid

[neat talon]

Additionally I take the stance that we shouldn't believe neither Madison nor lmg on these issues. To be fair LMG hasn't denied the allegations which is a big point in their favor they're actually investigating it.

But she's a small woman who was in a foreign country still dealing with the grief of her brother dying literally a week before she moved to Canada. And the community surrounding this YouTube channel can be vicious sometimes so I can't discount her for waiting for a good opportunity to voice what happened to her.

While I was never a person to believe an alleged victim, nor the alleged perpetrator there's enough that lines up here to make me lean that she's probably telling more truth than lies

[agile verge]

Sure... but you do understand how going from System A to System B (where System A is for very good reasons handled a lot more loosely than System B) is a lot more likely to see human errors, right?

[clever plank]

yea but what im saying is that its an issue they need to fix

that's simply all i am saying here

fix logistics

[cobalt trench]

She should have posted WITH evidence

[clever plank]

you can't always expect immediate concrete evidence with these things

[restive rain]

what are we arguing over now

[neat kiln]

" And the community surrounding this YouTube channel can be vicious sometimes"
Case in point.

[clever plank]

this is why the legal process of discovery exists in court

[cobalt trench]

Which is why you wait to say things until you have them

[agile verge]

Pretty much.

[clever plank]

that's not always true

[dusky seal]

Right so if victims posted their hospital results confirming SA, then it'd be valid. If they immediately went to the police and showed police reports, then it'd be valid. You have no clue how it is when this stuff happens to you.

[clever plank]

what do you think an inditement is

[cobalt trench]

It is if your intentions are not to backpedal off drama

And an inditement needs some type of evidence too lmao

You cant be indicted for nothing