networking

[flat wagon]

which is pr good tbh

[waxen scroll]

@rocky badge i'd never let comcast have my phone service

[tame carbon]

Ubiquity propaganda detected

@flat wagon that wifi thing from telus is a $50 one-off fee

[peak cloak]

is that a joke...

[flat wagon]

Ubiquity is pr good

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon overpriced, violate copyright and also recently had a massive security leak, which they didnt disclose

ubiquity is in the dumpster for me

[peak cloak]

eh

some products are good

I only have the unifi USW FLEX mini

and the ER-X

from the ISP line

[tame carbon]

Okay so

https://i.imgur.com/P7rAR2M.png

@peak cloak this is GPON right?

or does that look like active E?

https://i.imgur.com/K00G6Z9.png

[peak cloak]

looks like gpon, although idk if the sfp would work if plugged into a mtik or some other device

[tame carbon]

Because that's SFP+

Mikrotik doesnt do GPON

[flat wagon]

wow is that my router u found information on

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon seems like it yeah

[flat wagon]

damn ur good

[peak cloak]

I mean doesn't it depends on the module

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak It doesnt do GPON modules, or rather: only the mikrotik GPON modules

@flat wagon ideally, you'd ring up Telus, and ask if they provide active ethernet or GPON

[flat wagon]

they can do that

[tame carbon]

If its Active E, you can skip their gear and plug the SFP+ directly into your own router

If its GPON, you may have to use their equipment

[flat wagon]

Might be a GPON because there's some fiber box connected to that router (the box kinda looks like a switch but that box is connected to the actual Netgear switch, so idk)

[tame carbon]

that's just a splice point

[flat wagon]

o

[tame carbon]

I have one of those boxes too

you plug the fiber into it

[flat wagon]

yes

[tame carbon]

Yeah its just a wallmounted box

its just a splice point

@flat wagon https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/PON_vs_AON.png/800px-PON_vs_AON.png

PON's have 1 fiber medium for every house

you need a special module that can use GPON

[flat wagon]

ours not wall mounted tho it's on a shelf but the box is by NOKIA and i was surprised they into networking cuz I thought they died off

[tame carbon]

Active E is a dedicated fiber per house

@flat wagon nokia makes 5G technologies :P

and other networking things

[flat wagon]

well guess they needed to find income somehow after their phone division went rip

[tame carbon]

the phone branch of Nokia was sold to microsoft, and has since then died.

[flat wagon]

yes

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon but yeah, you should ring up Telus, ask them if they use GPON or not

[flat wagon]

okok it's 8AM rn they probably not open

or might be

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/SCJ8obn.png

[flat wagon]

Think they got 24hr technical support tho

I'll try

[tame carbon]

See this is what my ISP gave me ^

they just gave me a module and a patch fiber

if Telus does Active E as well, then you can (and I would) ditch that telus wifi thing

and use your own

[peak cloak]

Like this?

[tame carbon]

That's a splice point

[peak cloak]

yes

[flat wagon]

my splice point looks nothing like tjat

that*

it has like

8-9 ports at the back

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak if the ISP modem is "optional" then it is safe to assume it isnt GPON right?

[peak cloak]

no clue

[flat wagon]

That's the "splicer"

that's the switch

the oval thing beside the wifi router is the wifi booster

[peak cloak]

yeah that's not a splicer, it has actual power

[peak cloak]

what's on the back of that?

[flat wagon]

The black box is the switch

[peak cloak]

no what ports does it have on the back?

[flat wagon]

and thats connected to my router too idk what this is but I think it's UPS backup power

and o

ugh let me see

Honestly no idea I cant get to it

I can't twist it too much the fiber optic cable just reaches it and dont wanna twist it and put strain on it

[peak cloak]

yeah understandable

[flat wagon]

where did @tame carbon go

[peak cloak]

confused by what it's purpose is

[flat wagon]

same

[tame carbon]

im here

[flat wagon]

o

[tame carbon]

I just was away for a sec

[flat wagon]

just look at the pics

[peak cloak]

if it converts GPON to active fiber it would be nice

[tame carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387022787480387605/829742810625867816/image0.jpg

This is the ONT

[peak cloak]

but you have fiber to the router @flat wagon ?

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon what cables go into that nokia device?

can you show us the back of it?

[flat wagon]

Ok got the pic

sorta

[tame carbon]

Okay, and that red cable goes to your router, right?

[flat wagon]

yes

[peak cloak]

oh

no fiber to router?

[flat wagon]

no

[peak cloak]

unlike what crystal showed?

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon that Nokia is your ONT, or Optical Network Terminal

[peak cloak]

ok cool

I have something similar

it's the big box on the left

on the middle

that's my ONT

[waxen scroll]

yaaaassss another #UBNT fan

[peak cloak]

and it goes to the router to the right

[flat wagon]

thy thing is huge

[peak cloak]

it's the same size of yours probobly

[waxen scroll]

@peak cloak whip it out and compare

[peak cloak]

lol

[flat wagon]

Um

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak I'm very confused now

[peak cloak]

how?

[tame carbon]

how the fuck are they delivering 1.5G service

[flat wagon]

Just do we're clear u talking about the silver no on the left right

[peak cloak]

over ethernet?

[tame carbon]

Yeah but that ONT

those ports on the back, are those 1G ?

[flat wagon]

No clue

[peak cloak]

also could be false marketing lol

[peak cloak]

what's the model of ONT?

[tame carbon]

^ yes, give us the model #

[flat wagon]

no they got a 940MBPS plan and a 1.5G plan and uh ok hold on

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/cUG19Rh.png

[peak cloak]

don't think yellow is fiber

usually gpon wires are white

[tame carbon]

green

the yellow wire is just in the way

[peak cloak]

well green ends

oh

ok

yeah

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak interesting post online

And they got those Nokia PON modules

[flat wagon]

that router and optical switch thing seems outdated af

but seems like the same telus ups thing i got tho

what's a P/N

[tame carbon]

product number

[flat wagon]

i dont see a model number anywhere

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/B50IQ93.png

@flat wagon did you recently upgrade to those speeds ? because I'm not entirely sure you even have the right gear to use these speeds

[flat wagon]

well we were at 940MBPS and we just upgraded yesterday

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon yeah but that's as fast as gigabit ethernet goes.

[flat wagon]

and we contacted telus tech support and they said it should be working

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon okay if you log into your router, can you look at the WAN connection status?

it should list the negotiated speed with the ONT

its either 1G, 2.5G or 10G

[flat wagon]

Ugh I cant do that atm but ideally it should be 2.5G or 10G?
I can check in an hour

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon well, I wouldnt want to say ideal. I am just trying to figure out what standards they use

[flat wagon]

o

[tame carbon]

If it was a 10G interface, then it would make life easier yes

2.5G would be fine too, would need a module

but if it is 1G, as I am suspecting it is

then you have a problem :P

[flat wagon]

then what would we replace that optical box with?

[peak cloak]

a better one

[flat wagon]

link to a few?

[peak cloak]

it needs to be replaced by your ISP

gpon isn't standerdized like DOCISS

you can't just buy one

[flat wagon]

pretty sure that's the best they offer atm

but it's a year old when they were only selling 940MBPS down and uploads

so might be wrong

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon yeah but is the gear you have, the same

?

Because it is probably just 1G gear

[flat wagon]

yes

same gear

[tame carbon]

:e

@flat wagon when you get a chance to confirm the link speed to the ONT

tell us :)

because if it is 1G, telus hasn't done their job.

[flat wagon]

kk

[tame carbon]

1G wont be enough

[flat wagon]

got it

I'll call them

in a bit

[tame carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/776722183119699988/777646103775674368/IMG-20200922-WA0001.jpg

@flat wagon see this is what I got ^

the left yellow fiber is from the ISP

but its only 1G

[flat wagon]

yes

so what does ONT stand for again

[tame carbon]

Optical Network Terminal

@flat wagon this thing does what your ONT basically does: https://i.imgur.com/VL8Yvq4.png

Takes fiber, spits out 1G copper

[plain siren]

I worked with someone on Discord like 4 months ago but you can ask Telus for an ONT-SFP Module in place of the box and they will give you one

[tame carbon]

@plain siren can you plug those into mikrotik gear directly?

[plain siren]

Its DHCP on the other side

[plain siren]

Yes, and Ubi

[tame carbon]

its the 1.5G fiber service they have

[tame carbon]

This is something i read online

I assume they give out SFP+'s now?

@flat wagon if what Rouing said is true, then you should be able to ask Telus for an SFP+ module

If you can get your hands on that, you can use your own router and networking gear.

[plain siren]

He has one.

Unscrew that

[peak cloak]

that's sfp underneath?

[tame carbon]

SFP or SFP+?

[flat wagon]

calls TELUS
"your estimated wait time is.... 1 hour"
instantly hangs up

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon you have screwdriver? :D

[flat wagon]

yes

[tame carbon]

If you can remove the module and snap a picture.. that would be splendid

[peak cloak]

I wonder if mine is also like that

[plain siren]

yeah I cant tell which model box this is, some have it some dont

[peak cloak]

doubt it would though

[plain siren]

need better pics

[tame carbon]

@plain siren I had him look for Model# but it didnt have markings he said

[flat wagon]

@plain siren sorry it's just THERES a shelf right above it

hard to get the angle

[plain siren]

Nokia slapped on the top of it?

[flat wagon]

yes

[tame carbon]

@plain siren https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387022787480387605/829742810625867816/image0.jpg

[plain siren]

7368 ISAM G-240G-A perhaps

https://www.goamt.com/products/7368-isam-g-240g-a-optical-network-terminal-ont

[flat wagon]

o

[tame carbon]

But that's gigabit only

[peak cloak]

yep

[plain siren]

Nokia 7342 ISAM O-010S-P is the SFP Module we got provisioned according to these old dms

It provides an asymmetric 1.244 Gb/s upstream and 2.488 Gb/s downstream GPON uplink

[tame carbon]

nice ONT for that module then

@plain siren Pretty sure mikrotik does not like GPON

says it all over their doc

[peak cloak]

thing is, with an SFP module you no longer have voice?

[tame carbon]

not unless you configure SIP properly

[flat wagon]

okk to be clear that ONT can support the 1.5G down, correct? idc about the upload speed much

[plain siren]

or Optik TV, however who the hell really wants to use the Landline service from their ISP in a semi-optimal network config

[flat wagon]

yeah our tv is connected to the internet and won't work without it

[tame carbon]

what is this BS then?

[plain siren]

the newer SFP-ONT's support 2.5G

[tame carbon]

They give out 1.5G service

on an ONT with gigabit output

[plain siren]

Annnnd it turns out you can buy these SFP Modules second hand and do this:

ritool set MfrID ABCD
ritool set G984Serial 012345678

to set the Serial #' to the ONT Box

suddenly connection

[peak cloak]

on what router?

[plain siren]

oh yeahh and

uci set gpon.ploam.nPassword='0x30 0x31 0x32 0x33 0x34 0x35 0x36 0x37 0x38 0x39'
uci commit```

[flat wagon]

But I can buy my own ONT and it should be fine if I connect everytbing to it?

[peak cloak]

depends

[tame carbon]

ONT should be provided by the ISP.

[peak cloak]

a lot

^

[tame carbon]

The one you have right now, is not suitable for your internet connection

[plain siren]

you SSH into the SFP Module

[flat wagon]

this is giving me a headache bro so much to take in

ok I'll call them later today

[peak cloak]

wut lol, never heard of that

[plain siren]

SSH : user ONTUSER, password SUGAR2A041

[peak cloak]

how do you get the IP of it?

@plain siren do you know anything about fios service?

[plain siren]

quite a bit

https://rsaxvc.net/blog/2020/8/15/Nokia_G-010S-A_Pin_6_Issue.html Some ONT's which dont power up right need Pin 6 shorted to ground.

[peak cloak]

is there SFP onts that work with fios? I've looked online and couldn't find anything

[plain siren]

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r32230041-Internet-Bypassing-the-HH3K-up-to-2-5Gbps-using-a-BCM57810S-NIC

Someone literally ripped apart everything regarding the service feed and its "authentication" for Bell (Telus)

https://www.idscomm.ca/blog/bell-fibe-internet-iptv-with-pfsense < You can get IPTV over the SFP module

VLAN 34 is IPTV

[plain siren]

AT&T FiOS?

[peak cloak]

no verizon

[untold elbow]

att fiber is uverse

thats what im on

[tame carbon]

hai melp

[untold elbow]

sup bud

[plain siren]

Yeah, they are alot of fun

[tame carbon]

whatsup :)

[clear igloo]

uverse is DSL, att fiber is called att fiber, or did they rename it again?

[untold elbow]

oh maybe

[clear igloo]

ATT renames things like every week it seems

[untold elbow]

tru

can i get free tv from att fiber?

[clear igloo]

no 😦

[untold elbow]

bummer

[plain siren]

Verizon has some funky shit that we still havent figured out quite yet thats preventing normal OLT<->ONT Spoofing from working. Its speculated they have the ONT's loaded with some extra "fingerprint" that is being served post-initial handshake that we cant quite sniff. Not to mention they are even more picky with their vendor's as they have all 3 big vendors in a mix-mash depending on your local region.

(Side note: https://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-G.984.3 < ITU does have a standards document for GPON Networks)

[peak cloak]

yeah GPON is standardized it's just all stuff that's annoying

[plain siren]

[Side Note Disclaimer: Its "Recommendations" and meant more as a workgroup focus point]

[peak cloak]

yeah

Optimum also started ftth here

Optimum is basically altice

It's even worse because they don't provide an ONT apparently

just direct fiber to all-in-one

[plain siren]

the ONT is on Verizons Side

[peak cloak]

and apparently from reddit posts passthough doesn't work

[plain siren]

Thats the big oof

[tame carbon]

@plain siren the world would be such a nice place if all was Active E

but nooo

[peak cloak]

gpon would be fine

[tame carbon]

we have to come up with shitty standards

[peak cloak]

if it was just standerdized

[tame carbon]

so that people need to use confusing hardware

[peak cloak]

kinda like dociss

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak GPON feels more like a cost saving measure to me

[peak cloak]

It is

when you hundreds of miles of fiber to roll out

and the eqipment

[tame carbon]

Yeah and what do you do if you have a fiber cut?

or fuse

[peak cloak]

wdym

same problem as active

[tame carbon]

no

[plain siren]

Yeah you are telling me

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak if my fiber was wasted. they can just blow a new fiber through the tube

with PON you have to re-do every splice/tap

[plain siren]

AT&T is leading the industry development standards for Residential PON Networks

So thats great

[peak cloak]

not everywhere

[peak cloak]

plus ftth is on poles

if my fiber is cut then they just tap a new one

@tame carbon US lol

it's everywhere

[tame carbon]

Yeah its stupid

One hurricane

and you can rebuild it all

[peak cloak]

cost saving

[tame carbon]

no

its not cost saving

its wasting everyone's time

[peak cloak]

it is

[tame carbon]

every year you guys have hurricanes

and then some traffic light falls over

takes out a power pole and transformer

like, what the fuck

omg.

[peak cloak]

yeah and?

[tame carbon]

Yeah and?!

Come on.

[clear igloo]

Profit today much better than profit tomorrow

[peak cloak]

underground isn't practical here

[plain siren]

Oh yeah and heres the packet walkthrough of Residential Gateway <> Virtual Subscriber Gateway. This is basically all the shit on top of your internet

[peak cloak]

I would love it

for it to be underground

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak YOu know what is cool? Brick wins vs Wood

[untold elbow]

when i lived in philly, it was all underground

[tame carbon]

If a tree falls over here, and hits a transformer, nothing would happen

[untold elbow]

and it was fantastic, hardly any power outages

[peak cloak]

in cities it's underground

[tame carbon]

because it is completely encased in a concrete house

[untold elbow]

or service

i'm in atlanta now, it's all on the poles... fiber, cable, power

[plain siren]

Everything where I am is Underground by thats prob because... looks and the whole HOA + White Oil People and their Backyards

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak the local fiber splice box that takes the big 144 bundle and splits it up to 2 per house

thats under the ground, by like 30cm of soil

when you remove the topsoil, you have a hatch

and they open that, you can remove the splice point

it takes a crew of 2 about 4 hours to completely redo a fiber run to a house.

this is what good permanent infrastructure should be like.

low maintenance

[untold elbow]

if only everything was implemented with that kind of foresight

[peak cloak]

lol when they were setting up my fiber service it was just one guy and a ladder

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak the day they wired up the neighborhood, they sent 1 literate guy + 8 syrian refugee workers over

they operated the spades and rocket drill

they did 12 houses

in 1 day

[plain siren]

Our has man holes that can fit 2 people for each splice box, UG Switching System, etc. Someone got mad apparently they couldnt see and there is strung up LED lights yoinked around the hatch lip with an 18650 battery pack.

It was kinda funny to see

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak There's three teams.

The guys who do the physical pipes.

THen the guys who run the fiber to the local node and install the patch boxes

and finally

they call up customers to make appointments

to blow the fiber through the tube and install the indoors

After the splice to the houses has been completed the day after

[plain siren]

Easement Conduit Trenchers
Specific Metro/Municipal Infra Contractors
Residential Install Contractors

[tame carbon]

^

Thanks <3

The last ones were the slowest

Took months

[plain siren]

Always

[tame carbon]

I sent angry email

and suddenly one spawned in front of the door the next morning

after months of failed phonecalls

[plain siren]

The cities that are smart have the Municipal/Metropolitan Infra Installers all show up at once and they can run Eletric, Gas, Debug Cable, and other shit all at once

But you cant do shit for residential

Usually if you get Comcast, AT&T, and lets say Verizon in the same place, they will actually work together and get shit done faster. Its amazing

you see AT&T on one side feeding line and comcast on the other pulling pull ribbon

[astral fable]

If I had a network with 2 switches with each on a different subnet and 2 VLANs on one of them would devices one VLAN be able to share IPs with devices on the other VLAN without colliding?

[peak cloak]

umm, why share IPs

you can't

also that's not enough info

I mean technically you can, but that depends on the router config

are they being NATed?

or just routed?

[untold elbow]

your VLANs need to be on different network space, so no, using 2 VLANs won't let you share IPs

unless you're doing some other stuff on top of that

like NAT

you can't (for example) have two VLANs, both on 192.168.0.0/24

you'd have one on 192.168.0.0/24 and one on 192.168.1.0/24

[peak cloak]

also many people confuse VLANs with subnets

VLANs just simply carry subnets

but they can do other things too

[clear igloo]

You can IF they aren't routed anywhere, ie the 192.168.0.0/24 subnet doesn't have a gateway out

Obviously there isn't much point but if you want a local network that doesn't need access to anything but the local subnet you can overlap networks

[untold elbow]

right, but i doubt that's what he's doing

[clear igloo]

Yah, more information/clarity needed 🙂

[peak cloak]

what are you trying to do exactly?

@tame carbon warship?

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak for your collection: https://i.imgur.com/GJVIhCR.png

no, that was jsut copypaste fail

I speak with some authority though

[untold elbow]

is that evading the filter???!?

[tame carbon]

dutch infrastructure is among the best in the world.

@untold elbow HUM

[untold elbow]

im gonna call linus

[plain siren]

The switches can be on separate subnets themselves. there would have to be a root switch that would trunk the VLANs down to the second switch. In which case Devices on the Root switch with a matching VLAN the same as devices on the secondary switch (with the same VLAN and Subnetting) could talk to each other.

[untold elbow]

the acronym for the popular "network UPS tools" software triggers the filter as well

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow come again?

[peak cloak]

for some reason he wants to have IPs to not collide?

would devices one VLAN be able to share IPs with devices on the other VLAN without colliding

[plain siren]

I dont think he knew what he was asking, but judging by the "intent" of each acronym,
Could you use the same IP Space across 2 devices on the same VLAN on 2 diff Switches? seemed to be the question intended

[untold elbow]

exactly

[plain siren]

yikes

[untold elbow]

😉

don't do it

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow I bet louis rossman would get muted permanently

when he starts talking about his **busses on the boards

[plain siren]

I forgot I had gotten angry over that censor a few days ago

I was trying to say.. Nt and bolt

[tame carbon]

bolt?

[plain siren]

Yeah

[untold elbow]

what if you make it plural?

[plain siren]

nuts

[untold elbow]

oh hay

[plain siren]

WOw

WOW

[sly wadi]

Mm?

[untold elbow]

reported for evading the censor

[clear igloo]

Litmus on his way!

[plain siren]

YoUr ReGEx Is TrASh aNd YOu shOULd FeeL baD

[untold elbow]

lol wtf

why does that trigger it?

[plain siren]

it doesnt, im just joking

oh his

[untold elbow]

yeah

i just got warned

[plain siren]

wait... does that really trigger it

[untold elbow]

yes

do it

[sly wadi]

Yep

[plain siren]

what

[untold elbow]

right?

[plain siren]

Someone kept saying it ironically and ruined it I bet

[untold elbow]

prob

this is so happy

that works

[lean pebble]

I formated my laptop now my RJ45 connector working perfect just the lights burned out

[untold elbow]

might be a drivers thing

[lean pebble]

Nah

I get Internet all good

[untold elbow]

no i mean the lights

not sure

if it works, it works, don't mess with it

[lean pebble]

I don't mind the lights if I have internet before the format the rj45 connector didn't worked

It's an old laptop with little improvements

6 years I have it or 7 idr

[lean pebble]

Never touch something that work

I learned it the hard way

[tame carbon]

Finishing the LAST assignment to get my degree

its something from years ago

but its fucking BORING

[plain siren]

I find it awesome AT&T puts all their infra framework designs out there for public view

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/LI5hpXu.png

Feels like I am writing usecases for a stupid candy dispenser

Markdown

is

kinda

neat

[untold elbow]

i can never remember the hyperlink syntax

[tame carbon]

xD

Wat

[untold elbow]

is it (url)[text] or url or (text)[url] etc

[tame carbon]

for images

@untold elbow none of yours were correct

[untold elbow]

the bbcode sytax is way easier

[tame carbon]

BEEP

[untold elbow]

EXACTLY

i like [url=url]text[/url]

[tame carbon]

ew

[untold elbow]

bbcode 4 lyfe

[tame carbon]

trying to get work done over here ok

@untold elbow use pandoc.

When I had to write documentation for mediawiki

that syntax is even worse

[untold elbow]

i only use LaTeX

i actually like TeX

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow yeah what you think this is ? :D

I inject some \tableofcontents in there

and it parses the markdown # headings

and generates nice document for me

Pandoc is great

[plain siren]

Oh holy shit the AT&T ONT is SSH able. Excusemewhat

[tame carbon]

write markdown, convert to tex, and generate pdf

you can put tex in ahead of time, and it will just stay untouched

and even add headerfiles and import packages and such

[untold elbow]

whats that mean

can i get free tv?

[plain siren]

Even if AT&T whatever TV they have now name here was accessible, still wouldnt be worth it

[untold elbow]

thats true

i would like to watch baseball though

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow https://i.imgur.com/h2qqCSF.png

I just like this in my IDE

[untold elbow]

thats snazzy-looking

[tame carbon]

I know

mistake

[untold elbow]

does that render the markdown live?

[tame carbon]

yep

and scrolls along

[untold elbow]

cool

[tame carbon]

as you go through source

[untold elbow]

what's the IDE?

[tame carbon]

IntelliJ

[untold elbow]

is the "J" for "java"?

if so, i'm out

[tame carbon]

well specifically, but its the platform

Jetbrains IDEs

[untold elbow]

oh ok

[tame carbon]

Webstorm, phpstorm and all the other IDEs

are all IntelliJ platform

[untold elbow]

neat, i like it

[tame carbon]

If you have ultimate, it does all languages

[untold elbow]

i don't really have to write any markdown ever, but good to know

[plain siren]

DataGrip is fucking awesome

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/8RGue2V.png

@untold elbow ^

[untold elbow]

ugh

[tame carbon]

It does it all

[untold elbow]

as long as i dont have to npm some stuff, im ok

[tame carbon]

pretty sure the markdown stuff

is just a plugin

https://i.imgur.com/8sfQwBq.png

it even does code complete

[untold elbow]

i wish sublime text had something like that

[tame carbon]

for snippets

[peak cloak]

you use yarn?

[tame carbon]

even with SQL aware contexts

so its pretty nice

[untold elbow]

nope, i dont know what that is

i avoid js like the plague

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow its like npm

[peak cloak]

ah

[tame carbon]

but different

[untold elbow]

oh yeah

[tame carbon]

yarn is a task runner

I just want to use maven over here

and intellij integrates with it fully

[plain siren]

Oh how nice, I found the 802.1P priorities used by AT&T

[tame carbon]

so IDE build uses maven

[untold elbow]

any software dev stuff i do is just dumb hobby stuff on my own, so i get to be picky

picky and lazy

[tame carbon]

I got sunk so deep into this now

that I am so used to my tools now

lol the amount of plugins bolted onto my IDE

I have... complete devkit for android, PHP, Python, NodeJS, Java and C++

[peak cloak]

it has this so you don't need huge node_modules

[tame carbon]

SQL database integration, some Parser generator tools

[peak cloak]

https://yarnpkg.com/features/pnp

and it's just global

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow oh ye and they added a Cypher plugin, so I can now do Graph databases straight from source too

Autocomplete on queries and even have a built in graph viewer

https://i.imgur.com/4rHO623.png

_>

[untold elbow]

only server-side stuff i've ever done was for a simple disk monitoring UI for my NAS: http://h.jro.io:58765

and that was with flask + socket.io

[tame carbon]

ohhhhh

WHATT

This polling rate

omfg

[untold elbow]

i dont know what im doing

[tame carbon]

lmao

[untold elbow]

im not a web dev

[tame carbon]

xD

[peak cloak]

socket io lol

[untold elbow]

looks like it's workin great to me 😉

[tame carbon]

yeah but this isnt how you do sockets xD

[peak cloak]

shouldn't it be one socket?

[untold elbow]

no idea

[peak cloak]

ah

I see

[untold elbow]

it's connected to a few systems in the background

[tame carbon]

It gets better.

https://i.imgur.com/8yrlPQg.png

[peak cloak]

instead of one single thing your updating

[tame carbon]

He's closing the connection after each request

instead of using keep alive

[untold elbow]

😄

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/Ogrx1Mc.png

more HTTP overhead than data

[untold elbow]

how do i fix that

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow server has to use keep-alive, or instead use a websocket

[peak cloak]

have one single object to transfer instead of multiple small ones

[tame carbon]

websockets is just a TCP socket that stays open for the duration of that session

what you are doing right now, is just opening HTTP connection, asking for a file, then closing connection

[plain siren]

https://cdatatec.com/product-item/1u-16pon-port-pizza-box-epon-olt-fd1216s/
Pizzabox OLT
What the hell is a pizza box?

[untold elbow]

dumb name for a 1U server

[plain siren]

Wooooooow

[peak cloak]

socket.io reverts to http long polling it says if sockets aren't available?

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow benefit of a socket is that the server pushes, instead of having the client poll

[untold elbow]

welp maybe if i get really bored i'll fix it

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow what is the server program?

keep alive is quite easy to do

[peak cloak]

https://socket.io/docs/v4/how-it-works/#HTTP-long-polling

[plain siren]

"Maybe into some other box"
How descriptive

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak yeah but longpolling doesnt work in this context

since you just want to stream

[untold elbow]

https://github.com/edgarsuit/FreeNAS-Fan-Control/blob/master/Display Scripts/fanctl_display.py

again, im not a dev

so dont judge

[peak cloak]

you can tell socket.io client to upgrade to websockets

[tame carbon]

That would be

[untold elbow]

imma look into this

[tame carbon]

if it was nodejs.

[untold elbow]

and keep alive

[tame carbon]

Because this is python

[peak cloak]

https://socket.io/docs/v4/client-initialization/#upgrade

it happens on the client side

[tame carbon]

server has to decide on keep-alive

because it sends the headers

Client can only suggest it I think

[peak cloak]

yeah

or this too

https://socket.io/docs/v4/client-initialization/#transports

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow strange. Very confused by this code

you emit to.. redis:// ?

wat

socketio = SocketIO(app, message_queue="redis://")

what is this lol

Not seeing you spawn an HTTP server anywhere

must be that library

[plain siren]

It looks like we may be able to steal neighbors services/TV

[tame carbon]

# Start flask/socket.io app
@app.route('/')
def index():
    return render_template('index.html')
if __name__ == '__main__':
    socketio.run(app, host='0.0.0.0', debug=False)

so you are using flask?

[plain siren]

Also, it also may be possible to actually virtualize the ONT. In docker. They have a vONT Docker Container

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow Oh I see your problem.

[peak cloak]

that's socketio

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow before you run app.start() you should put this line of code: WSGIRequestHandler.protocol_version = "HTTP/1.1"

That will set the webserver to use HTTP1.1 because its using 1.0 right now

then you should have keep-alives

from werkzeug.serving import WSGIRequestHandler

[peak cloak]

yeah, I tried manually changing the client code to use websockets

didn't work

so server problem

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak look at the response headers

its http 1.0

that doesnt do keep alive

[peak cloak]

ah

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak HTTP/2 is even better

though debateable

it supports binary transfer

https://i.imgur.com/WkicCvB.png

request pipelining is gonna be a big one moving forward

because then you can multiplex :)

1 connection all your requests, then you close.

[plain siren]

Basically fixing the Apache 10K Connection Problem.... the correct way

[tame carbon]

or use nginx

[plain siren]

Instead of the NGINX Async software layer method

[tame carbon]

yeah

[plain siren]

nginx will scream with this

[tame carbon]

@plain siren it might make a lot of sense for load balancers

[plain siren]

and rProxies

omg

rproxies..

[tame carbon]

Load balancer <--> app can be a single connection

much better threading options and fine tuning

[plain siren]

Traefik is the first thing that comes to mind

AWS AppMesh is another thing that also comes to mind

[tame carbon]

@plain siren I've only done load balancing in lab contexts

we had built a couple completely stateless microservices

and had a common runtime engine that could spawn up these instances and bind them to a proxy server

so you could run backend auth payment tracking to spawn 3 services

and all the services that were running within the same instance could use interface proxies

if the service it needed was not in the local context, it would contact a load balancer

the entire software stack was dynamic proxies

that were either direct interfaces or thin REST layers

[plain siren]

Yall rebuilt k8s network control plane

[tame carbon]

using some clever dependency injection tricks :D

@plain siren this was for a route sharing service

that had to be scalable across many universities

[plain siren]

Route sharing?

[tame carbon]

err

ride sharing*

it hooked into the schedule system

and used google maps to calculate trip times

all the routes were cached, and we used dijkstra's algorithm (with some heristics) to allow people who live along eachotherrs routes, to be added to the ride

[untold elbow]

@tame carbon lol i appreciate it, i'll add that stuff

i was on a work call

[tame carbon]

the entire system was basically in real-time

a bit like uber

[plain siren]

Something like this

[tame carbon]

Something like that yes

[plain siren]

ofc the ALB can point to many autoscaling groups

[tame carbon]

except we used redis only

[plain siren]

And you use Fargate to do the tasks things

but yeah

[tame carbon]

@plain siren this taught me a lot about writing stateless services though

sessions are the most godawful thing ever.

[plain siren]

Ah dis is better

(add alb on top and remove the tasks talking to each other)

[plain siren]

yes

[tame carbon]

@flat wagon how'd the call go?

[untold elbow]

so im using redis to allow communication between threads... i forget exactly what i was communicating, i built this a few years ago and wrestled with it for months, barely got it working, then gave up on it and haven't really looked back since

and that http1.1 thing didnt change the keep-alive. im going to fix it by removing the NAT rule on my network so you cant get to the page any more 😉

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow 5000 requests and counting

I hope you dont have an access log

[untold elbow]

nope lol

this is only accessed by me when i want to check the disk temps

that's my personal NAS system

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow are you in your router settings rn?

[untold elbow]

no im not actually gonna remove the nat rule

why

[tame carbon]

doing some heuristics on your latency https://i.imgur.com/s62ukIQ.png

[untold elbow]

lol

[tame carbon]

you stopped talking

[untold elbow]

yeah i was on a call

[tame carbon]

and response times got all wonky

[untold elbow]

oh i restarted the app w/ those changes you said

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow oh so its using 1.1 now, but not keep-alive mh.

honestly that socketio is just strange

[untold elbow]

yeah i think i did it right

[tame carbon]

but the rest is pretty cool

[untold elbow]

but all of this is just stuff copy/pasted from stack exchange

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow you want an idea for v2 ?

[untold elbow]

sure

aside from making the connections persistent

[tame carbon]

you install influxdb, and write your values there

pretty easy actually

api is json

[untold elbow]

yeah i need to do that

[tame carbon]

and then you just use grafana

and build whatever visual stuff you want :)

[untold elbow]

can i build something similar to the table display i have now?

[tame carbon]

@untold elbow https://play.grafana.org/

[untold elbow]

my issues with a lot of those dashboards is they present stuff in a way that isn't super useful to me

[tame carbon]

argh. they removed the dark theme as default?

what cancer is this

[peak cloak]

doesn't influx have a visualization thing now as well?

[tame carbon]

yeah but grana is better

@untold elbow https://play.grafana.org/d/avzwehmz/demo-wind-farm?orgId=1

@untold elbow all the queries you see are on the same timeframe you have at the top.

[untold elbow]

looks neat

[tame carbon]

you can basically zoom in at any level

[untold elbow]

def gotta play with it

does it do live updating?

[tame carbon]

you can do refresh yes

[tender hazel]

I just randomly read this one line by itself and I thought you were saying your grandmother is better

[tame carbon]

but ~5s is stretching it

[peak cloak]

yeah on the top right you can change refresh rate

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/j7d0P8Y.png

@untold elbow the time frame system it has in the UI is bound to all your database queries as parameters

you pass those into your timeseries query

and you can automatically get series of values for multiple lines on a graph

you could configure it like, a unit of server

and a server has multiple measure points

you can set up combo views for all of that

and when new points come online

they get added to the graph automatically

so its very flexible

[untold elbow]

i like it

[tame carbon]

you can go into editor mode

https://i.imgur.com/lnmOyug.png

you can either enter a query by hand

or use the builder

and then you can apply functions https://i.imgur.com/BQJ45hf.png

or do fourrier transform xD

this is all part of influxdb btw

https://www.influxdata.com/

[untold elbow]

def a project for the future

[tame carbon]

I did this with my solar collector

Our smart meter had an RJ11 port on the side

[untold elbow]

limited free time right now, have a 6 month old at home now

[tame carbon]

and just dumped all its registers every 10 seconds

soldered an ftdi chip onto a cable and reversed the polarities according to spec

wrote tiny python program to read from serial on a raspberry pi

that was just sending the data to my influx instance on my server

and then just come grafana tinkering to get some cool results

https://www.influxdata.com/wp-content/uploads/Iot-Flux-Query.jpg

data querying ^ is pretty simple

[hollow marlin]

mmmmm Grafana

[tender hazel]

When I went into a Zabbix chat to try to figure out how to get the UI to be more user friendly, they recommended Grafana. Then I had a look at what Grafana could do, but I don't think it can do what I want

[tame carbon]

@tender hazel it can

you can have label lists

[clear igloo]

Grafana can do all the things

[tame carbon]

You can set up event hooks in grafana

[hollow marlin]

I use Zabbix for SMNP and Grafana to make it all pretty

[plain siren]

Grafana takes alot of time to configure is the real crutch

[tame carbon]

^

[tender hazel]

label lists?

like what we are missing in zabbix is a sort of device view

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/cKZqwF1.png

[tender hazel]

where we can enter a device and see the graphs, latest data, and problems for a device all in one place

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/RLcT2ti.png

[plain siren]

yeah you can do all that, any index can be used on any axis of the graphs or tables

And there are plenty of them

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/TfG8Z1W.png

[plain siren]

https://www.fluentd.org/ Combined with this guy its a lovely mix.

[tender hazel]

yes I see that screenshot of different types of things you can create

but we have like 300 devices that would need that per-device view

[plain siren]

Thats pretty easy

[tender hazel]

like do I have to build this per device?

for each one individually?

that's what it looked like when I was looking at grafana

[plain siren]

you can template it

[tame carbon]

with influx stuff is quite easy

[plain siren]

Or pragmatically deploy the configs

[tame carbon]

you can just attach properties to each batch you send

and then filter by web01 web02 etc

and have the same points for each of them: cpu, memory, network

[tender hazel]

pragmatically? do you mean programmatically?

[plain siren]

Yes, but it annoys people

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/4eB7SQQ.png

[tender hazel]

right but that's four web servers in one graph

[tame carbon]

yeah, series A

you can add another series

[tender hazel]

let me show you what sort of thing I am trying to get

[plain siren]

You can get a page per device kinda view going too

[tender hazel]

in Zenoss we have this nice per device view

[plain siren]

For example, take a look at this random google image, look at the top where it says "host"
You can have tons of hosts listed there with the same dashboard layout for each

[tender hazel]

we can go to events to view the events, go to graphs to see the graphs

[tender hazel]

ok

I need the hosts to be grouped in a sort of tree structure though

as opposed to one big flat list

they also said I could do that host tree in grafana

I don't want a big drop down list with all the hosts, it would be a bit crazy

I also don't really want to have to design the graph page myself, I want grafana to automatically pull every single graph from zabbix that there is for that device

and provide some means of changing which graph you are seeing

[tame carbon]

@tender hazel you can also just use grafana as add-in

you can generate embeds

they are dynamic too

[tender hazel]

let me show another thing

in zenoss we have this tree view of locations and sublocations

we can navigate through the tree and click on a location

I would want to replicate that in grafana somehow

the zabbix guys said grafana can do it but I haven't seen any examples like that

[plain siren]

so something like this perhaps

Ok I havent taken a good look at the indicator features of this personally and this is cool
I gotta go mess with this myself heh

[tender hazel]

all of the examples that I see are sortof overall dashboards, which isn't what I want, I just want an easy way of navigating between devices and seeing everything for a device

[hollow marlin]

This is what you are looking for: https://grafana.com/docs/grafana/latest/variables/
It allows you to have a single dashboard and use variable to apply to the entire dashboard. Essential will let you do what you need of type in the node name and it will change all the graphs

[tame carbon]

@hollow marlin oh yeah, those cascade

so if you change the left value

the other choices change

[tender hazel]

ok so that would work for changing between graphs for a single device

what about the tree of devices?

for navigating to a particular device?

[tame carbon]

on the dashboard everything is made up of panels

not sure

[hollow marlin]

Yep, I was looking into it for a presentation for a dashboard for our NOC. I have not tested it but it would be what you Fin is looking for

[tender hazel]

like I want a grafana page that has no graphs

that is just a big tree of devices

[tame carbon]

https://grafana.com/static/img/docs/v50/manage_dashboard_menu.png

[tender hazel]

that you can navigate through and click on a device to view the page for that device

[tame carbon]

you can create dashboards folders

but this isnt something that is easily automated

[hollow marlin]

Oh are you looking for a network map?

[plain siren]

@tender hazel Ever heard of Icinga?
This is more of a ... enterprise solution buuuut

[tender hazel]

yes some kind of a tree structure like that

[tender hazel]

I want it to be automatic

we have the tree structure sorta set up in zabbix with groups

we replicated our tree structure from zenoss

so we have groups and subgroups

but there is no option to navigate through the list of groups and subgroups like there is in zenoss

[tender hazel]

yeah I don't want to have to create dashboards folders

I want for grafana to pull the tree structure directly from the zabbix database and organize the devices in that way

zabbix has a "map tree" built in that does something like what I want

the issue is that viewing a map is not always the most efficient way to browse to a device

some of our larger sites have like 30 devices so the map has 30 items on it

when you are trying to find a specific device you have to look all over the map to find it

when it is a list instead of a map, it is sorted alphabetically

so it becomes rather quick to find a specific device

[tame carbon]

@tender hazel really sounds like something custom you'd want here lol

Rendering a tree view isnt that complicated with a bit of code

if you can just populate the right side of the panel with a grafana view

you dont have to use their dashboards.

oldschool frameset

you click on an item on the left

and the right side updates the url

[tender hazel]

yeah something like that even would work

I just have to make it more user friendly because we have level 1 service desk techs using it

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/ToPSWKQ.png

https://mdbootstrap.com/docs/b4/jquery/plugins/treeview/

[tender hazel]

and when they have to look at a device and see what is wrong, I don't want them to have to go to latest data->browse for device->apply, then look at latest data, then go to a different part of zabbix where graphs are, and browse for th device again->apply, then go to a third part of zabbix problems->browse for device-> apply to see the problems

it is too much work going to diferent parts of the system to find everything about a single device

[tame carbon]

yeah you want to just have small queries

that fill out the info that is relevant

when you click on a page in the treeview

[tender hazel]

yeah those sort of tree views are what we want.. and as I said zabbix has a map tree that is sorta like that but clicking on something in the tree calls up a map instead of a list of devices

[tame carbon]

if you want something user friendly and specific

you are looking at custom solutions

[plain siren]

https://technology.amis.nl/frontend/creating-a-custom-plugin-in-grafana-using-react/

[tame carbon]

can you add labels to those?

and colors? :D

[tender hazel]

I went to the zabbix chat to suggest to the developers that they make a device tree view but they basically said "no, everybody loves our UI, it is perfect, we don't want to change anything"

[plain siren]

Yus

[tame carbon]

I smell

Mithril.js

[plain siren]

https://material-ui.com/components/tree-view/ It uses this UI

It goes on to make further logic breakouts in another "Advanced" blog post about this
https://technology.amis.nl/frontend/further-customizing-a-grafana-custom-plugin-in-react/

[tame carbon]

@tender hazel very common btw for custom management dashboards: https://adminlte.io/

[plain siren]

AHhhhhhhh yes the most copypasta'd UI for WebUI's

[tame carbon]

xD

I've done something with it before

https://i.imgur.com/IczCIOl.png

[tender hazel]

yeah I don't want to have to use adminlte.. the react tree component looks promising

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/pTKXhcm.png

I got bored

and made this ^

[tender hazel]

what's the back end?

[tame carbon]

rest service

the page controller is just MVC

written in java

but the data is fed by a rest api

[tender hazel]

java ok

I work with laravel in php which is an MVC platform as well

[tame carbon]

that's another java process

@tender hazel oh no I reinvented the wheel on this one

wrote my own MVC page router

and controller structure

its incredibly simple

@tender hazel those two views you just saw:

@Path("status")
public class StatusController {

    @GET
    @Path("service")
    @RequiresLogin
    public ModelAndView getServiceStatus(Request request, Response response) {
        Map<String, Object> models = new HashMap<>();
        ServiceAPIClient client = session(request).getClient();
        models.put("services", client.getStatus().getService());
        models.put("servers", client.getServers().getServer());
        models.put("page", "Status");
        models.put("page_desc", "Services");
        return new ModelAndView(models, "status/service");
    }

    @GET
    @Path("minecraft")
    @RequiresLogin
    public ModelAndView getMinecraftServerStatus(Request request, Response response) {
        Map<String, Object> models = new HashMap<>();
        ServiceAPIClient client = session(request).getClient();
        ServerInfo info = client.getServerInfo(request.queryParams("server"));
        models.put("server", info);
        models.put("page", "Server Information");
        models.put("page_desc", info.getName());
        return new ModelAndView(models, "status/minecraft");
    }

}

its just a really thin layer

https://i.imgur.com/ZpLZuPb.png

actual data it passes over is just from the API

[tender hazel]

yeah I don't want to have to use java

[tame carbon]

xD

@tender hazel simple nodejs program would do in this situation

java isnt ideal to write webapps with

its more for services

[tender hazel]

callbacks give me a headache.. I prefer working with laravel/php

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/28A3COi.png

[tender hazel]

I think for this I don't really need to have the async capability of nodejs

which I know is very powerful for multithreading etc

but I find callbacks to be ungainly

I would have to learn about promises

[tame carbon]

its actually not that bad

its just the language that sucks.

in typescript, writing async code is a breeze

@tender hazel if you put the word async in front of your methods, it automatically wraps the return value as a promise

so inside such a method, you can call upon async functions without having to worry

if you wish to evaluate (block) the promise, you can do await method()

code such as

res.locals.umb = await this.client(this.prepareSession(req).culture)

is a blocking function

[tender hazel]

I just worry about going down the rabbit hole too

recreating an entire new UI for zabbix

[tame carbon]

It is a rabbit hole

because once you create it

you have to maintain it

and stuff always breaks.

[tender hazel]

somebody already made something like what I want once

but it has vanished

https://share.zabbix.com/zabbix-tools-and-utilities/web-addons/zagile-dashboard-for-zabbix

the website has been down ever since I found it at first

it's a shame because it looks like exactly what I would want

[plain siren]

@tender hazel https://www.ricca-it.com/it/

https://www.ricca-it.com/it/servizi/cloud/ecare/

Found it

@tender hazel

:D

[tender hazel]

oh cool!

that looks like it

[tender hazel]

I didn't click on eCare because it sounded like some kind of customer service software

[plain siren]

just to give an idea of my google-fu searches for future reference

[tame carbon]

Visualizzazione

[plain siren]

@tender hazel check this out tho: https://snipeitapp.com/demo

[tender hazel]

that's more of an inventory system than a monitoring system though

[plain siren]

Well to be honest, most implementations of what you want are a combo of ITAM, CMDB, and Monitoring

[tender hazel]

yeah.. zenoss is designed to be a combination of CMDB and monitoring

[plain siren]

Most of the time I see these integrated separately but they usually have cross-integrations that works out nice

[tender hazel]

zabbix sorta has an inventory system but there is no sortof "device view"

[plain siren]

https://www.i-doit.com/i-doit/ This is the biggest "mix mash" complexity I have seen personally

[tender hazel]

they assume you have a sort of workflow where you are interested in all graphs, so you go into graph mode and then choose which device you want to see graphs for and choose what graph you want to see

[tender hazel]

and then maybe another time you are interested in all problems and so you go into problems mode and choose which device you want to see problems for

but they are lacking a solution for if you care about everything that is happening with one device

[plain siren]

thats i-doit

it ITIL, CMDB, ITSM, ITAM, Service Desk, and Monitoring

all in one

[tender hazel]

interesting..

our server admin has made the choice of zabbix though because it is easier for him to administrate and is the most popular

and he's already spent a great deal of time setting it up

librenms has this sort of device interface too which is really nice

I like using librenms for smaller deployments, but I think we have too many devices for it

[plain siren]

I take that back, Micro Focus has the largest suite I have seen @tender hazel

https://www.microfocus.com/en-us/products/configuration-management-system-database/overview