xkcd is great, if you havent heard of them before
#networking
unborn sluice
linux distros have those uhh apps? that can show you xkcd in the desktop
now I'd want that in my windows machine
do you know any program that can offer similar? @tame carbon
unborn sluice
so you're expecting me to write a program for it?
tame carbon
thats an API.
tame carbon
I don't widgets on my desktop, so idk
unborn sluice
I don't widgets on my desktop, so idk
Figured
I'd probably bug the management to switch my windows into a mac
so I can join in the cancer
and I can compile linux shts to work
tame carbon
@unborn sluice I'm sure there's a desktop environment where someone made an extensions for xkcd
can't imagine there isnt
unborn sluice
can't imagine there isnt
I am imagining it
unborn sluice
but seriously, I've used a widget in linux with comics from sources
tame carbon
for cinnamon desktop
unborn sluice
right now I am in windows, so I need something that works for windows
tame carbon
not my problem 
unborn sluice
I got the idea of comics widget because I've used it before
unborn sluice
not my problem <:KEKW:670048864052445204>
It is now
tame carbon
do you know what google is?
unborn sluice
do you know what google is?
Is that a food
nocturne harness
network problems are hell
tame carbon
you start at layer 1
work your way up
once you get into the higher levels, shit gets complicated fast
nocturne harness
once had a significant outage at work caused by some services not responding
the services seemed to be localized to one host that was having trouble
unborn sluice
you start at layer 1
I can never forget the guy that said layer 9
unborn sluice
the services seemed to be localized to one host that was having trouble
so it's their problem now
nocturne harness
everything was reporting healthy except for the not responding
we had a conference with ops, netops, the dev teams, and us (was an SRE at the time)
nocturne harness
long story short, the switching fabric ASIC was being sketchy AF in the top of rack switch
unborn sluice
we had a conference with ops, netops, the dev teams, and us (was an SRE at the t...
SRE and OPS are different? nice
nocturne harness
the host was trying to connect to a DB in rack but on the other ASIC on the switch (the sketchy side)
unborn sluice
there's a 9th layer?
nocturne harness
ASIC kept dropping packets randomly, leading to retries, which basically DoS'd
tame carbon
I imagine layer 9 as the bean counters at the top of an organization
unborn sluice
ASIC kept dropping packets randomly
I love it
The problems that can't be easily reproduce are the best
nocturne harness
Our DC has vendors onsite, they were confused
the log showed a blip a bit before the issue started, but showed up as "healthy"
tame carbon
@nocturne harness lol this one company, had a daemon that did health checks
unborn sluice
are we talking about the "healthy" servces, like a hTTP health check or another layer
tame carbon
@nocturne harness and it checked 'API availabity'
@nocturne harness except if it broke, all the endpoints would 500 error-out, EXCEPT. the /health
brilliant design
tame carbon
they used local instances to test API functionality
nocturne harness
<@!238496648311865344> except if it broke, all the endpoints would 500 error-out...
🥴
tame carbon
I fixed the issue and rewrote the health endpoint, to create an internal HTTP client
to actually connect to the public endpoint
like it would use 127.0.0.1:serviceport
worked much better, because now if the API framework itself crashed, we could k\now
nocturne harness
are we talking about the "healthy" servces, like a hTTP health check or another ...
Generally we try to write health checks to be as similar to what our users actually do
unborn sluice
The best health check if it's internal
tame carbon
@nocturne harness the isuse was an internal dependency that guice couldn't fulfill
and there was no error logs
unborn sluice
Generally we try to write health checks to be as similar to what our users actua...
I generally don't like /health checks other than to make sure it's reachable network-wise
nocturne harness
Then we can measure response time and determine if we’re violating SLA
tame carbon
thats the issue with runtime DI I learned there
nocturne harness
I generally don't like /health checks other than to make sure it's reachable net...
Yeah /health isn’t great, unless it’s for reporting service connectivity with other layers
unborn sluice
and there was no error logs
Benefits of having frameworks
tame carbon
@nocturne harness wasnt my idea
I just fixed it at least, so it worked as intended
if you want to change these things
you end up creating problems in another project
nocturne harness
<@!238496648311865344> wasnt my idea
Oh, wasn’t trying to read you or anything 🙂
tame carbon
Nah, I was just clarifying :)
tame carbon
they used spring too
was a lot of fun
patching OAuth2 into an older version of spring
I hate spring so much lmao
nocturne harness
I’ve spent a bunch of time working on distributed system design/SRE stuff, I no longer like HTTP
Give me Kafka queues of everything, thank you
unborn sluice
Give me Kafka queues of everything, thank you
All systems communicating through message queues, what a future to live in
tame carbon
@nocturne harness really depends if you can design your system as an event driven system
nocturne harness
“Oh you had a problem? What time? Let me just replay the queue and see what happens”
unborn sluice
“Oh you had a problem? What time? Let me just replay the queue and see what happ...
Instead of reaching host:ip, clients can simply subscribe. brilliant
nocturne harness
<@!238496648311865344> really depends if you can design your system as an event ...
Yeah I know
unborn sluice
now we can ditch rest altogether and agree on the data format of our queues
tame carbon
@nocturne harness dequeue on complete, otherwise reject
its nice in critical systems
nocturne harness
Can’t deque in Kafka 😉
tame carbon
that company I did that for worked in telemetry industry
entire measurement ingest was through AMQP
nocturne harness
Kafka is an append only log basically
tame carbon
@nocturne harness well the key concept here is keeping data from being lost in errors
its same concept that powers the erlang philosophy of: just let it crash
if a message cannot be processed, let the process crash
and another process will take care of that
unborn sluice
keeping data from being lost in errors
Why not put the data into another queue, so you could compare /s
nocturne harness
Oh no
unborn sluice
Z bad
nocturne harness
Poison message problem
tame carbon
@unborn sluice https://zhidko.net/img/ThreadPool.png
nocturne harness
You’ll crash your whole swarm with that
unborn sluice
You’ll crash your whole swarm with that
"let crash"
tame carbon
Processes create messsages for other processes
unborn sluice
mad lad
tame carbon
if a process crashes, this is logged
the data remains in the queue, it might get shifted to another queue
but then the developer can fix the issue, and put the item back in the queue
to be processed
but erlang has a very different design strategy
nocturne harness
If it just crashes would the broker not just reassign to an alive group member and then crash them too?
unborn sluice
@nocturne harness I have this foolproof design
if a process crash, it would send the message again to the queue
tame carbon
@unborn sluice 'let it crash' is an approach to fault tolerance
if you know that a process can crash for whatever reason, you have another subroutine that executes
nocturne harness
Fail hard can be good depending on the scenario
tame carbon
That’s a good, terse, description of what Let It Crash is. It’s about coding for the happy path and acknowledging the fact there are faults that will occur that we aren’t going to be able to handle properly because we don’t know how the program ought to handle them.
nocturne harness
But I work at companies in the finance industry, we’re not crashing anything by choice
Lmao
tame carbon
You focus on coding the happy path
unborn sluice
But I work at companies in the finance industry, we’re not crashing anything by ...
Money didn't remit? fuck the client, let it crash
nocturne harness
Lol not even that, who cares let them try again
tame carbon
nocturne harness
My problems are more like
tame carbon
@nocturne harness point 2. is very important for any language
cursed catch and log mistake every rookie makes
nocturne harness
“We crashed processing the trade and didn’t send to market? The client lost out on the pricing they want? They lost a few million because of it?”
tame carbon
@unborn sluice imagine your bank transfer of a small loan of a million dollars, errors out?
unborn sluice
They lost a few million because of it
But it's happy
unborn sluice
<@!349203120082911242> imagine your bank transfer of a small loan of a million d...
ok now, what do I do
tame carbon
yeah, you take this scenario into your design phase
and work a solution around how you go about dealing with these problems
faults are expected, how do you fix them
unborn sluice
I also worked for the finance industry
I certainly don't want crashes anytime soon
tame carbon
good architectural design, should prevent failure scenarios
or at least, have a set of protocols in place to go back to, in case a fault does happen
unborn sluice
in case a fault does happen
We did, but let it crash isn't of one those
nocturne harness
Yeah, let it crash would never get approved at the two finance companies I’ve worked/work for
tame carbon
@nocturne harness I'm literally reciting my knowledge of ISO 27001
Quality attribute scenarios
nocturne harness
Yeah, I’m just saying, that’s not what you’ll see used at institutions that have high reliability requirements
unborn sluice
ISO is nice, but I sure won't convince the management that we would be crashing the program as expected
tame carbon
@nocturne harness setting realistic goals is a challenge yeah
but I better fucking hope that airline designers do this shit properly.
would be stupid
unborn sluice
airline designers
They did, that's why we had plane crashing
tame carbon
if your plane went down and the last line in the log would be:
NullpointerException: null
peak cloak
airline or airplane lol
tame carbon
giving a seminar to airline software developers
teaching them about erlang and 'let it crash'
nocturne harness
For example, one of the systems I worked on was a low-latency compliance system, our failure plan was the fact that the system did 3x real time replication and the systems had a low-latency failover mechanism
unborn sluice
Plane air conditioning not working properly? Let it crash
tame carbon
@nocturne harness which guarantees some response time within some amount of ms
nocturne harness
So a failure would result in a very small delay because we had hot backups
nocturne harness
Though a failure would def fuck up our metrics
tame carbon
oh you have an agreement
nocturne harness
This system is the last step before submitting to exchange, it’s supposed to be as fast as possible
tame carbon
our system follows the 'best effort' philosophy
sorry your flight will be delayed today
we have an unusual amount of interrupts
@nocturne harness lot of telecom hardware and programming inside network appliances is done with erlang
unborn sluice
it’s supposed to be as fast as possible
Working in finance opened my eye
These rich guys want to spend their money fast
tame carbon
Joe Armstrong remarked in an interview with Rackspace in 2013: "If Java is 'write once, run anywhere', then Erlang is 'write once, run forever'.”[14]
unborn sluice
we have an unusual amount of interrupts
Now imagine if windows run the airline servers
nocturne harness
> it’s supposed to be as fast as possible
Working in finance opened my eye
Yeah, that’s why I stayed TBH
unborn sluice
imo, Erlang is the what kraken would've look like if it were a programming language
nocturne harness
The challenges are so interesting vs most of big tech
Who GAF if Netflix doesn’t work
It allows them to be lazy and with designs that I would never run with
unborn sluice
Who GAF if Netflix doesn’t work
I reckon 3 seconds of netflix won't hurt that much compared to finance
people would complain about buffering and such
but finance would literally cause companies and jobs
nocturne harness
Where I work now, our desks (even the small ones) transact in the billions per day
unborn sluice
my desk typically transact in python
nocturne harness
Small desks might be sending ~10k trades/second
nocturne harness
Heh, I’ve switched roles a few times now 🙂
unborn sluice
so what are you now
nocturne harness
SRE was my oddity, I’m a soft eng
I also did a stint as a systematic trader, that was fun 🙂
unborn sluice
systematic trader
Now that's something I want to try
nocturne harness
The work was... less challenging then I was hoping for
unborn sluice
The work was... less challenging then I was hoping for
Like repetitive or you mean the decision making
nocturne harness
Like repetitive or you mean the decision making
Lots of research type stuff available, v open ended, but a lot of the work is dominated by, you know, running a trading desk
Working with exchanges during outages, dealing with regulatory stuff, etc
unborn sluice
I kinda want to try it not for the challenge but for the experience
surely I'd learn something
nocturne harness
Yeah true, I learned a lot more about finance doing it
unborn sluice
running a trading desk
Might want to try it if I have the chance
nocturne harness
I like the finance side a lot, but day to day find the soft eng more interesting
unborn sluice
I like the finance side a lot, but day to day find the soft eng more interesting
Used to be a soft eng, but management switched me to sre
nocturne harness
Oops
nocturne harness
How ya finding SRE?
Does your company use the FB approach where you’re embedded in the dev team?
unborn sluice
How ya finding SRE?
If you were here earlier, you would've seen me thinking if I'd want to switch into a networking job
nocturne harness
Ohhh so good I take it 😛
unborn sluice
Does your company use the FB approach where you’re embedded in the dev team?
By meaning alone, i'm devops. I'm maintaining a system and being in operations
unborn sluice
Ohhh so good I take it 😛
No, I don't mean my company is offering it. I mean if I want to switch career paths. not necessarily in my company
nocturne harness
Ahhh gotcha
unborn sluice
Probably want to switch jobs every now and then so I'd have the bigger picture
though I don't know how trading desk would help me much in this industry except if I continue working in finance
like how did you applied your skills after that?
nocturne harness
Depends, we had front office dev teams
so understanding the trader work can help you better design software for them
nocturne harness
oh, sorry misread
my experience, trading teaches you a lot about statistical thinking
weighing choice in risk vs. reward, differently how a lot of people in tech think
unborn sluice
weighing choice in risk vs. reward, differently how a lot of people in tech thin...
Interesting
nocturne harness
also makes you think a lot about opportunity cost
unborn sluice
Though how could I even start a job at that sector
opportunity cost
Much needed, If I want to be management one day'
nocturne harness
yeah that's the harder part tbh, I did an internal transfer for it
unborn sluice
internal transfer
The company I worked for, has products to be used by banks
we aren't the bank
nocturne harness
Ahhh, it might be hard to do then 😦
unborn sluice
Ahhh, it might be hard to do then 😦
And right now I am outside the finance industry
waxen scroll
ORLY
unborn sluice
though I'd figured having worked for the finance industry would easier to get jobs in banks and such
waxen scroll
i bank
unborn sluice
bank to you too good sir
nocturne harness
though I'd figured having worked for the finance industry would easier to get jo...
yeah, lots of firms like tech people with finance experience
waxen scroll
i bet they'd hire me
nocturne harness
especially firms that are into quant trading
waxen scroll
options on $GME
unborn sluice
yeah, lots of firms like tech people with finance experience
frankly, I might ditch tech industry altogether and focus on trading
provided i'm not stupid enough to lose all my money on bad stock decisions
waxen scroll
im worried about tech in general. it keeps getting shook up, it moves way too fast, most companies treat their tech staff as lesser than the other staff'
🤔
unborn sluice
tech staff as lesser than the other staff
One of the key concerns
they think of tech people as one of those "easily replaceable"
Profit too low? Lay off some of those guys
sadge
waxen scroll
contracting as staff augmentation is brutal too cause often you do a better job than the staff there and they get their $10k bonus while you get no benes or bonus
unborn sluice
better job than the staff
Yea, not being better than the staff makes it look like their contract is unsuccessful
nocturne harness
frankly, I might ditch tech industry altogether and focus on trading
fair, I almost jumped (to permanent options market making), I'll let you know if it haunts me 😉
unborn sluice
Though, I've seen that myself
unborn sluice
fair, I almost jumped (to permanent options market making), I'll let you know if...
That's my cue to learn more about trading
remember if it's haunting
you should do it more
nocturne harness
trading has terrible work hours though
unborn sluice
Anything has terrible work hours
nocturne harness
true, but most traders I know go in an hour before open (at least) and stay many hours after to finish their work
unborn sluice
I mean tech industry made it acceptable to pull all-nighters and give awards to their employees
nocturne harness
like you basically work 8:30-6:30 every day of the week, no real breaks
vs. most people at FB/Google/etc work like 10-6 take an hour break for lunch and an afternoon break to hang out with people
lol
unborn sluice
like you basically work 8:30-6:30 every day of the week, no real breaks
That's like me not having the time to think about how bad trading is
But seriously though, the problem with trading is it's global. Your lunch time isn't others lunch time
nocturne harness
I feel like we've strayed from this channels purpose quite a bit, should probably move to DMs
unborn sluice
I want to know how to get in the networks of trading
I dunno if I can switch career paths that easily
nocturne harness
it's easy, you just need the IP address, nothing is secured
unborn sluice
should probably move to DMs
You bet, if you can dm me
nocturne harness
> should probably move to DMs
You bet, if you can dm me
fine, no DMs for you then
unborn sluice
fine, no DMs for you then
You can ofc DM me anytime
though I need to sleep for my morning non-trading job
nocturne harness
though I need to sleep for my morning non-trading job
fair, DM me if you wanna talk when you wake up then 🙂
waxen scroll
idk about ya'll but almost all my jobs i dont do more than 7hr/day and when I do I make them give me time off
unborn sluice
i dont do more than 7hr/day
So like your 8hr shift is 7hr
Honestly, i wouldn't be surprised
Nobody is 8hrs productive
waxen scroll
theres lunch in there that makes it 8hr
unborn sluice
theres lunch in there that makes it 8hr
sht
my culture is different
9hr is 8hr work + 1hr lunch
so that's like me giving them 1hr more than I should
waxen scroll
thats why i work at huge companies and not smaller ones
i like being a number and not closely monitored at a "family company"
unborn sluice
I agree, especially when my company is small enough that we have ties to the goverment
i like being a number
I dunno what to feel about that
waxen scroll
last 6 years or so I havent even been really managed. they leave me alone and I get work done, give an update once a week
unborn sluice
they leave me alone and I get work done, give an update once a week
What I want
fuck them scrum meetings
that's like micromanagement
waxen scroll
sort of. i guess it depends. my experience with scrum is you get left alone outside those meetings
unborn sluice
left alone outside those meetings
I am left alone, however being forced to update something everyday
So like I have to conjure something everyday
waxen scroll
i feel that while its the definition of micromanaging, its not one person (your boss) hounding you for updates all the time. its a regular thing, the whole team does it, the psychology is different
it doesnt affect me like a single person micromanaging me
unborn sluice
its not one person (your boss) hounding you for updates all the time
You're right. Probably I'm not used to everyday meetings
waxen scroll
my company does chapter teams, product teams and scrum. so my actual boss has nothing to do with my work. its like coworkers giving eachother updates
unborn sluice
its like coworkers giving eachother updates
Well, my boss is part of the meeting
waxen scroll
ah. mine isnt lol
unborn sluice
they are literally there not to update us, but to watch us
Though they can help in some areas, some they are just asking us how things are going
waxen scroll
the person of authority we are reporting to in scrum is a technical person who does the BS business staff behind the scenes and tries to help move our work past blocks
its not a people manager
unborn sluice
Ours used to be a developer before he got promoted into a people manager, so best of both worlds?
waxen scroll
those get interesting
unborn sluice
tries to help move our work past blocks
This is their aim, they do help us.
waxen scroll
you either get a hard ass or someone so chill he doesnt care
waxen scroll
chill managers are great if you know what you're doing and dont need a lot of help
if you need help its annoying
unborn sluice
if you need help its annoying
like how
my manager certainly slides into my dm with articles and tutorials if he feels like I'm kinda slow in a task
waxen scroll
usually with a chill manager its "oh man thats too bad, you try to figure it out and ill maybe send an email"
lol
non-confrontational
i had a manager who acted like a surfer dude
chill as hell... sometimes just skipped staff meetings
we once went a month+ with no weekly meeting
he let us work from anywhere if we asked in advance... so you could go to vacation like europe and be like "can I work from there and take less PTO?"
unborn sluice
he let us work from anywhere if we asked in advance
That's so specific, seems more like a company culture?
waxen scroll
no way in hell. the company would have shut it down lol
unborn sluice
"oh man thats too bad, you try to figure it out "
Did this to the people that was reporting to me
unborn sluice
no way in hell. the company would have shut it down lol
So your manager is the counter-culture
hell yea
nocturne harness
one of my previous companies (SF big tech) was v chill
we'd have our scrum meeting at 11:15 (the time people had to be in by) for 15 min, and then the whole team would go and have lunch together
unborn sluice
15 min meeting?
unborn sluice
each person got 1 minute max
My dream
my team was always give as much information as possible
sometimes I'd rather read the wiki page myself
I'm usually the one that gave my fastest update. like my last record was 2 minutes
while my co-workers are explaning all stuff
nocturne harness
our team was backend + iOS + Android + product, so half the time the work was like irrelevant to other people (besides trying to get our dependent sprint work lined up)
unborn sluice
To clarify why, currently the vibes are "the more update you have, the more work you did"
nocturne harness
oh very ew
nocturne harness
you need a scary scrum master
unborn sluice
even my co-workers were surprised I did all of that under 2 minutes
nocturne harness
who just cuts people off
unborn sluice
who just cuts people off
Looks like a neat skill
usually i'd cut people off like
"That's too detailed. you can talk outside of the scrum meeting"
though my co-workers don't like that
waxen scroll
"HEY! This sounds like triage! We're doing updates right now!"
unborn sluice
"HEY! This sounds like triage! We're doing updates right now!"
we certainly need one of those
and I'd like something who abruptly does that
nocturne harness
just tell them to "take it offline"
unborn sluice
just tell them to "take it offline"
I did
nocturne harness
how you gonna fight those buzz words
unborn sluice
but I looked disrespectful
nocturne harness
are you european?
unborn sluice
anyways, maybe I should stop thinking about my image
and care more about the quality of the meeting
nocturne harness
Portuguese?
unborn sluice
longer meetings tend to be worse
unborn sluice
Portuguese?
you're near
nocturne harness
heh
I've worked with a number of Europeans (in NA), always found Portuguese people to be the most respectful
French are the least
waxen scroll
brazilians are the most micromanagy
unborn sluice
brazilians are the most micromanagy
yikes
waxen scroll
💁
unborn sluice
Like asking you intricately?
unborn sluice
(we get it from our parents)
I'll take note of your italianess
waxen scroll
@unborn sluice like not leaving me alone. updates all the time. priorities always changing
nocturne harness
I'm half italian half like english/french
waxen scroll
unborn sluice
like not leaving me alone. updates all the time
Imagine being hired but they want it to be done their way
waxen scroll
yeahhhh
unborn sluice
@waxen scroll ever tried asian?
waxen scroll
yeah
unborn sluice
that sounded weird
waxen scroll
i have one now
hes chill but this company uses managers differently so I cant comment on what its like being project managed
unborn sluice
hes chill but this company uses managers differently so I cant comment on what i...
neat. usually asians are known not to have balance
waxen scroll
yeah, indians are usually pretty chill TBH
ive never had issues with indian coworkers (personality wise)
unborn sluice
me too
nocturne harness
Some companies are really good at hiring just good people
I found it interesting to see the blend of cultures at one of my past jobs, it worked really well cause the people were all just great
unborn sluice
Though i've known my friends who are under indian who regularly set a tight deadline
unborn sluice
I found it interesting to see the blend of cultures at one of my past jobs, it w...
Benefits of a large company
waxen scroll
ive found that you really only see that at large companies
like those people are hiding from smaller ones lol
unborn sluice
ive found that you really only see that at large companies
Seems to me, I should always look at jobs in large companies
waxen scroll
if you're in IT.... run, dont walk, to a large company
life is so much better
theres like 4+ backups for you, vacations are easy, knowledge sharing is easy, documentation is plenty
downside is higher layoff risk
ive never had r/sysadmin level problems in my career
unborn sluice
theres like 4+ backups for you
2 sre in my team, me being one of those
vacations are easy
Reminds me to take more vacations this year
I think my current company is not small
though based on what you're saying, it doesn't conform to the "large company culture"
waxen scroll
lately I work at places between like 10,000 - 350,000 employees
waxen scroll
you want them so big that you're silo'd and not trying to juggle 100 things
you can be a network WAN person full time if you want and not touch load balancer
not need to touch firewall
unborn sluice
Forbes 500
ikr, sounds like i'm high even though I aint
waxen scroll
i hate touching firewall... its a pain in my ass
tame carbon
hello im high, nice to meet you
waxen scroll
managing rules sucks, let someone else do it
unborn sluice
managing rules sucks, let someone else do it
well, I'm a developer and an ops
so literally juggling
guess my company is small enough
I'd slap DEVOPS in my linked in just for the lols
since I can defend that definition
waxen scroll
yeah i tried to get out of ops ASAP so if a company wants me to engineer but says I do level 2 support, I say "thank you, have a nice life"
first half of my career was ops, im done. no more users or alerts unless the company has a major outage
tame carbon
Im a good 'ol engineer
unborn sluice
yeah i tried to get out of ops ASAP so if a company wants me to engineer but say...
Guess I need to build the courage to get out of here
waxen scroll
im not gonna be designing a datacenter expansion and then get buzzed because a users patch cable failed. NOPE.
tame carbon
{Issue#, Repository, Pizza, Coffee} => {Closed issue, no pizza}
unborn sluice
im not gonna be designing a datacenter expansion and then get buzzed because a u...
nightmare
peak cloak
I'm a "idk what to do with my life" was thinking cybersecurity, but idk how good/bad it is
unborn sluice
I'm a "idk what to do with my life" was thinking cybersecurity, but idk how good...
I'd say try finance
unborn sluice
you'll get depressed
agreed
tame carbon
@waxen scroll I'll happily come fix your patch cable for $200
unborn sluice
my dad's an accountant
not accountant, but like IT industry that's focused in finance
peak cloak
ah ok
waxen scroll
like when i worked for a colo provider we used to have to gather the trash and dump it, do shipping, clean up the dock area, babysit vendors and play security guard.... plus do technical stuff on top
it was depressing as hell
unborn sluice
trash and dump it, do shipping, clean up the dock area
Yikes
You're literally jack of all trade
waxen scroll
i was paid well for those tasks but my brain HATED it
waxen scroll
it will desensitize you to working with servers for sure
unborn sluice
Imagine getting a highly technical interview so you could clean up the servers
waxen scroll
if you put hardware infront of me that costs $1 mil ill shrug and go "cool?"
tame carbon
the buildup at this bit, its so insane
the subtle guitar accords
through a giant array of filters
unborn sluice
Now, I just need to switch different cities where there are colocations
tame carbon
at like 4:09 
waxen scroll
yeah getting colo jobs isnt hard if you know computer basics
unborn sluice
I can't wait to be highly paid to take out the trash
tame carbon
advanced basics
unborn sluice
you can build and install linux
too easy for something highly paidi, anything more advance?
tame carbon
LFS
unborn sluice
Like networking problems
tame carbon
unborn sluice
most of the linux tasks can be automated.
tame carbon
Have fun building your own distro
waxen scroll
nope. if you get access to a network device its just for show commands. its rare they let you unless you're on the network team. datacenter tech is pretty much all physical stuff + OS install
peak cloak
yeah, no. I kinda want usability with my linux build
tame carbon
Some datacenters have their own images
peak cloak
well that makes sense, but for personal use? nah
tame carbon
@waxen scroll I remember the linode VMs, those are all netbooted :D
unborn sluice
nope. if you get access to a network device its just for show commands. its rare...
So like, literally moving servers in and out of racks
tame carbon
filesystems are mounted at runtime from NFS
waxen scroll
yes, litterally
running bulk cables, installing new racks and power units
connecting racks to their ISP with a wire
unborn sluice
Now, if you'll excuse me
tame carbon
so they get a bill of work
unborn sluice
i need to find colocations in my area
tame carbon
cable 123213 goes to socket 2132131
tame carbon
what about now?
tame carbon
I made about 25/hour as junior software dev, part time
waxen scroll
this is full time + benifets
waxen scroll
gotta afk. brb
tame carbon
for general purpose help
really varies what I do
I'm the IT errand boy for a couple smaller companies
Like, I go out make hardware purchases for them
and decide what is best for their needs
like, workstations, networked printers, backup facilities
tame carbon
@clear igloo something just dawned on me
No longer a student means, I don't get my IDEA pack for free anymore xD
rip 300 bucks/year
clear igloo
That sucks 😦
clear igloo
Well how long until your email expires?
tame carbon
Couple more months
clear igloo
Ah
tame carbon
I'll be finished by april
@clear igloo due to corona some classes got rescheduled
and this has caused me to do the graduation project as an intern ahead of those final exams
so I just do those on my own leisure, I don't have to follow classes
its like 2-3 weeks work at most
and i have 2 months
clear igloo
Ah, well at least the big stuff is done early
tame carbon
yeah
nothing major can go wrong now
and I think one assignment
is writing a literature research on a specific nosql db
and the other task is setting up a conceptual design for a piece of software
to automate something
with UML and use case descriptions and such
its really fucking boring
thats why I've been putting this off forever xD
clear igloo
That does not sound fun at all x.x
clear igloo
yup
clear igloo
tame carbon
that looks like some kind of crawler or metasploit bot
clear igloo
Yah
tame carbon
well good luck, its all unauthenticated software xD
clear igloo
lol
tame carbon
with a thin client for a CDN backed CMS
waxen scroll
tame carbon
@peak cloak btw
this is what OO looks like in typescript
export class UmbracoRouter {
public express: Express
private readonly client: (language: string) => UmbracoClient
private readonly getRoutes: Map<string, (req, res, Umbraco, UmbracoClient) => any>
private readonly postRoutes: Map<string, (req, res, Umbraco, UmbracoClient) => any>
private readonly contentRoot: string
constructor(express: Express, client: (language: string) => UmbracoClient, contentRoot: string) {
this.express = express
this.client = client
this.contentRoot = contentRoot
this.getRoutes = new Map()
this.postRoutes = new Map()
this.init()
}
...
strong tusk
3200 cas 16 for 549.99 vs 3600 cas 18 554.99 for a server? Both are 128gb kits.
strong tusk
Nah, this is the pcpartpicker https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kznmRT it's a multifunction server/workstation.
tame carbon
so what just a PC system
@strong tusk not sure, honestly never bothered looking at CAS latencies with this
I have 2400MHz ECC memory in my ryzen system
strong tusk
Well, ECC vs non is just error related. But, honestly 3600 might make the 2 ms not really matter vs the 3200
And, honestly for a plex/media and development storage server it prolly doesn't matter either way. Plus, 128 is prolly overkill. What I could do is just chuck my 64 gbs from my main workstation in there and and go samsung b die on my main for reasons.
Illogical reasons, but reasons.
tame carbon
@strong tusk system stability
if you want to have uptimes of a year or more
you kinda want ecc
with linux, never crashes
I have machines that have 1.5 year uptimes
other with 2 years
strong tusk
Well, I'm not sure if this mobo will even take ECC or not.
strong tusk
Intel Core i9-10850KA Avengers Limited Edition 3.6 GHz 10-Core Processor
tame carbon
xeon series does
and the amd ryzen series have it
pretty sure the threadripper workstation chips also have ECC
strong tusk
Some i9s do, but the problem is I had to go specific intel for one factor of it which is 4k bluray due to dumb drm
tame carbon
oh so you are going to run windows on that shit anyways?
here's a cool idea
install linux as a host, then windows as a guest, passthrough your GPU to the windows VM
strong tusk
I would do Linux on it personally but the other users don't want to. So, I'm fine with 10 just I'd rather use 1-2 specific linux distros.
tame carbon
you can use the computer as a server, and a windows workstation
by allocating IOMMU groups of the physical hardware to the windows vm
it behaves like a normal computer
but the host is actually linux, and then you can install small headless virtual machines on that
the linux stuff doesnt need a monitor anyways
you can just ssh in
all you need to do, is make sure you unplug the power and reset switch from the front of the case
so no idiot thinks its a regular PC
and configure the hypervisor to automatically restart the windows VM if shutdown
so it autoboots no matter what
so
strong tusk
Well, when I get the m.2 I'll probably put openSUSE or something like unRAID on it and toy with that. But, the other users still want windows 10 as the primary.
tame carbon
even if windows crashes
your network services are still up
@strong tusk this is kinda what unraid does yeah
except they sell a simple GUI solution
but you can do this with opensource too
machine behaves like a windows workstation
it has a display
a keyboard, mouse and usb
except the OS is a bit.. complicated
strong tusk
I got the p4000 btw for nvenc as we have plex pass. Also, you need Intel 6000 and up motherboards for DRM reasons to do 4k bluray on PC. But, you have to do it through the onboard gpu via hdmi.
6000 series cpu mobos I forget the chipset names as I swapped to ryzen after haswell
tame carbon
the doom of propietary nonsense
@hollow marlin day 4. https://twitter.com/i/status/1354136495997726723
This is the local mob of hooligans, protecting their town from vandalists from other towns
xD
people have gone collectively insane
because
this happens ^
That's amsterdam
strong tusk
Ya, basically the bluray community tried cracking down on piracy. So, you need sgx+hdcp which only is on intel integrated motherboards from the 6000 series cpus and up. I got an i9 because of certain aspects like the amount of people connecting at once, the avengers edition because I'm a comic nerd, but the quadro is for the unlimited nvenc factor yet you can apparently hack nvidia drivers while using unraid from what I heard to get around that. But, the quadro still wins. However, with Plex you don't get true unlimited even with the nvenc factor you get like 64 4k lossless streams. However, nobody has the net for that and my isp would throttle me if I tried. XD
I really wouldn't blame Verizon for throttling me for that.
tame carbon
they do throttling over there?
strong tusk
Verizon's one of the big names in throttling yet after lawsuits they cut back. However, if you were trying to pull that sorta stunt you kinda deserve to be throttled. lol
Like, for one it violates the contract. And two from what I heard that takes a lot of net, 64 4k streams at once.
tame carbon
but aren't you streaming locally?
so it doesnt matter?
and 64 4K streams?
you sure your network interface can even handle this?
strong tusk
Only for a few users, but we and others access the server outside of the house too. However, someone was testing the NVENC limitation of quadros. Technically, it's unrestricted on the Pascal ones like my P4000. However, with Plex it can do 64. I think unrestricted is with things like OBS or whatever.
tame carbon
I can set you up with a list of parts to get for a 10G Server <--> Switch (or Router or both)
so you can split this up into multiple 1G streams
for local distribution
that is, if you have a big hosting box locally for videostreams
to like TVs and stuff
strong tusk
I'm at my budget limit for most of the year lol I still have to get upgrades for my workstation+a second laptop.
strong tusk
Well, we have ubiquti or however they spell it stuff plus I have my own 16 port managed switch
strong tusk
@tame carbon I decided I'm just going to put 32 gigs of my 64gbs of ram into the server for now. I'll put the other half in when I put faster RAM into my workstation.
sweet flame
So i got a cisco sg300-52p for free and i have 0 experience with anything layer 3. I have a pfsense box ive been playing around with and i want to have link aggregation to connect my router and switch and have vlans going over the lag for all my interfaces. problem is i suck ass at routing and switching. anybody in the mood to do tech support today?
peak cloak
basically you want to create a link aggrgation interface and then make it a trunk interface (all vlans tagged)
idk how tough
sweet flame
On the switch?
sweet flame
Dem file transfer speeds with multiple clients
peak cloak
do you have that many clients?
sweet flame
Yeah i know 4x 1 gigabit isnt 4 gigabit but i have a few people who might be accessing a few different servers
And i want to know how to do it lol
no i only have 3 max but my router is gigabit so 😂 might as well take advantage of all those empty ports
router has 6 ports on it, and servers all have 10g to the switch so 3x1g file transfers at once? idk but i wanna find out
peak cloak
yeah idk anything about cisco and pfsense
sweet flame
Lol it is cheap tho
peak cloak
not really
it's not using dedicated routing hardware
so no sort of hardware acceration
sweet flame
Thats a good point
peak cloak
so you really need a good build to push high speeds
sweet flame
Yeah idk if the ole intel atom could handle 3gbps now that i think of it lol
another reason to find out
Ill see if i can get my hands on some enterprise routers and do some head to head when i figure out how tf cisco wants me to do this
peak cloak
look at mikrotik if you want a good value router, as for your issue, I have no clue
some people in here know cisco
sweet flame
At least its not command line
sweet flame
If anybosy has used sg300 before 👀
peak cloak
it's cli only
sweet flame
I was talking about the switch but how well does it work for you?
peak cloak
what vyos?
I only used it in my proxmox build as an VM edgerouter
I want a mikrotik
I currently use an ER-X as a router
sweet flame
Are those any better than the unifi ones? i heard they have consumer level functionality
peak cloak
unfi kinda sucks
sweet flame
it really does
peak cloak
edgemax is different
sweet flame
It keeps getting worse too
sweet flame
i was dead ass about to get another file server so i could have unifi video
now its UnIfI pRoTeCt OnLy so now im hunting for ip cameras again
peak cloak
yeah make sure to isolate ip cams
sweet flame
yeah i know enough about switching to do that much lol
I have all my servers isolated and a storage network
And all my parents weird stuff has their own subnet
sweet flame
They have a mf internet connected cat food dispenser thats not going anywhere near my stuff... and ill give that a watch
peak cloak
lol
sweet flame
Started 20 minutes in 🤔 ive been here before
might as well watch it again i dont remember this one lol
Wait is this the one where they like splice into the ethernet and get a feed?
i might be thinking of a different one
tribal ferry
This is probably going to be a long thing to type but oh well
Anyway, I’m thinking of getting a large rack since the only one I have at the moment is a small 12U one intended as a network cabinet only - not for full-length servers.
I plan to have a homelab, so this is a bit of an issue unless if I get router servers and run them as normal servers.
My basement is half finished, the unfinished part has no heating or A/C to it. It’s where my cable connection comes into the house and the electrical box, plus very easy access to Ethernet.
I’m thinking of putting in a full-size open rack down here - my only concern is the ventilation.
Would it be fine to run the rack down here? The door to the room is usually closed, but it’s not airtight. There’s a garage door on the other end to where the rack would be placed, as this place used to be the old garage before the previous owners put in the current garage.
sweet flame
How much of the basement is below grade @tribal ferry
And are the walls uninsulated as well in this unfinished part? basements can provide excellent passive cooling
If you dont have full racks of enterprise servers running all the time the average basement is an amazing place to put your equipment. As long as super high humidity/flooding isnt a high risk, that could actually be the best spot. I would put everything as high up as possible in that rack too just in case a pipe bursts down there or anything.
And make sure the rack location is a) not near any plumbing or b) protected from plumbing with plastic sheet. Ask me how i know thats a good idea...
Overhead plumbing especially. If a kitchen or bathroom is above you protect those bois
tribal ferry
How much of the basement is below grade <@!517852052563427329>
How much of it is below the ground?
sweet flame
Yeah you said half of it used to be a garage right
sweet flame
so at least part of it is above ground
tribal ferry
90% of it
sweet flame
Is above ground?
tribal ferry
90% is below the ground
sweet flame
yeah if you dont have a bunch of xeon heat macines that would be perfect for your setup
What are you planning on putting in there
tribal ferry
UDM-Pro, SFP+ Switch, 48 port RJ45 switch, and maybe 2-3 full length servers
sweet flame
Thats probably as much as you can put in there and rely on passive cooling
tribal ferry
So maybe 6-10U of total space
sweet flame
How much power does it all consume?
tribal ferry
Currently only have the UDM-Pro in my existing rack.
Not sure how much it would consume.
Everything I listed would be need to be purchased except for the UDMP
sweet flame
Well see if you can calculate power consumption of all your equipment. then get a heater with similar wattage and run it in there for a few days with the thermostat on max
Thats how i tested my basement lol
I had to use a variac though because who has a 700 watt heater
tribal ferry
Does your basement have A/C and heat?
sweet flame
Nope
sweet flame
Its got a drop ceiling too perfect for loud switches and servers
Oh yeah if your servers are gonna be loud
Plan for that
tribal ferry
That’s why I’ve wanted to put it down here
Any used server I’m going to get is probably going to be loud
Don’t really want it in my office upstairs with all the bedrooms
sweet flame
I have actually had some good luck with servers being quiet. Especially when its below 70 degrees the fans speed all the way down and they can be pretty quiet under full load. My first server was a hp dl360 (1u) with dual 8 core procs, full of hard drives... and i sleep next to it lol
1u servers can get loud though. 2u servers are generally quieter but you should look into how loud that specific model gets
tribal ferry
So, with that down, what would I theoretically need to do if I exceeded my room’s passive cooling capabilities?
sweet flame
Concrete walls right
sweet flame
Ok well hopefully those blocks are concrete filled
Its a foundation so probably
Well, have some circulation fans going in there all the time
blowing air past the cinderblock walls and past the rack
tribal ferry
Issue is that I usually store things down there as well, it’s not a completely empty space.
Not a lot, but some things
sweet flame
If theres any shelves against the walls make sure theyre against the framed walls
There a sump pump down there?
tribal ferry
Eh, pretty sure there is near the water purifier
sweet flame
Youd think those systems would be more redundant
tribal ferry
We would hope at least lol
sweet flame
We had a main shitter line clog and it started backing up into the basement... We didnt know the sump pump was bad...
And someone started taking a shower and we didnt notice until there were a few inches down there
sweet flame
Dishwasher was running omg it was so bad
The whole pipe was busted and they had to dig down 16 feet to install a new one... And now we have two sump pumps
Ones actually on a ups lol
sweet flame
yeah rip a r710 i had on the floor
tribal ferry
Always keep those things off the floor I guess lol
tribal ferry
Bottom dot is the garage door, middle dot is the door into this space from the finished part, top dot is the electrical fuse box and where the server rack would be
Yeah
Theoretically I could have a whole circuit wired up for the rack from the panel since it’s directly next to it
sweet flame
Oh wow so most of it is unfinished
you are gonna get great cooling down there hopefully
sweet flame
Omg i would kill to have an unfinished basement. Breaker panel in my house is on an outside wall and its drywalled
tribal ferry
Yikes
sweet flame
Yeah it sucks
tribal ferry
Yeah, I have a finished attic
sweet flame
WtF
tribal ferry
Gotta love it when you run a cable for your hallway ceiling access point
sweet flame
yeah i dont have one of those
tribal ferry
through the crawl space and into a closet
tribal ferry
oh no
sweet flame
try wiring in that lol
tribal ferry
I have my main living room space on a concrete slab as an addon to the house
sweet flame
At least the basement has a drop ceiling. And theres a shaft that goes from the basement to the attic so its not that bad... Unless you want to get to the 3rd attic
tribal ferry
I have a colonial-style, so it’s decent enough for wiring
sweet flame
When was it built
tribal ferry
1980
tribal ferry
Previous owners said they wanted it in the style of Williamsburg
sweet flame
original wiring tho
tribal ferry
So much blue paint 
sweet flame
Maryland?
tribal ferry
PA
tribal ferry
Well, they ran a cat 5e cable from the upstairs office to the basement so they were fine on that
tribal ferry
Exposed outside though
Not through the walls
I don’t think it’s outdoor rated either
sweet flame
My house has a phone line in every room so my cat 3 game is strong
sweet flame
yeah the coax coming into my house goes under the siding, over an exterior door, in the air conditioner line set penetration, through a coupler, up behind my fridge, another coupler to the modem
With a hole in the drywall
Extra fancy setup
tribal ferry
Behind a fridge seems dangerous lol
sweet flame
Its central to the house and my parents refuse to let me convert to my pfsense box
So they get one access point
tribal ferry
I’ve indulged myself into the Ubiquiti ecosystem
sweet flame
its actually a fridge modem/router/AP supplied by the isp...
Yeah unifi is super easy but its not as featured as id like my router to be
Even though i suck at routing
tribal ferry
I enjoy the tight integration
sweet flame
I have a few unifi APs and i have a controller running
no router/switch though
I was sooooooooooo close to expanding my network storage so i could have a unifi video server..... then they went proprietary on me
No thanks
tribal ferry
ADT works fine for me
Don’t trust myself with my security and the cams cost about the same
sweet flame
Yeah monthly subscriptions aint it
sweet flame
I have some motion sensors and stuff tied into my home automation but no cameras yet
tribal ferry
I’ve been thinking of rerunning my upstairs to basement cable with a OM3 Duplex MMF in conduit to make a 10G link
Never done a cable run outdoors though, especially with fiber
Would definitely be some sort of learning curve
sweet flame
That would be great
Use some 1" gray pvc conduit
If you are going underground thats code
tribal ferry
Wouldn’t be underground, all that happens with the cable is that it comes out of the second floor office, down the side of the house, and goes in to the basement near the window for it
sweet flame
I dont think theres any code for strain relief or edge guard on low voltage (or no voltage) in pvc conduit too you can just stub it out
Oh not underground
Well you could do EMT if you wanted
tribal ferry
Really that one cable is the backbone of the network
Without it, there is nothing downstairs
EMT?
sweet flame
But youd need threaded fittings because its outdoors
Metal conduit
I would still do PVC honestly
tribal ferry
I’d probably do some sort of flexible plastic
sweet flame
get some 90 degree LB conduit bodies and poke through those walls, and youre set
Oof
Does it have to be wife approved?
sweet flame
Lmao alright
tribal ferry
It’s mostly hidden by a bush and it does go along the brick line so there is that
sweet flame
So easy to work with
Oh nice
Shit if its above ground you could probably just get some outdoor rated and send it
So it the ISP method
tribal ferry
Yeah idk, might do that
tribal ferry
Otherwise, snap
tribal ferry
Yeah it’s not too long a run
sweet flame
like 75 ish feet seems to work fine
tribal ferry
Yeah, fiber for this seems to just adds unneeded complexity
tribal ferry
To store what?
sweet flame
Damn my file server is like 90% full
tribal ferry
Even my google drive only uses like 200GB
tribal ferry
What are you even storing?
sweet flame
Well i host stuff for some people
tribal ferry
Copies of copies?
sweet flame
Hell no lol
I have like 500 gigs of ripped LPs and like 10tb of video for a media server
then around 80tb of customer data
and a few tb left over at the end for me
tribal ferry
Would never want to host business info at home lol
sweet flame
Although all my personal virtual machines store in that same 80tb of data so probably a lil less
Its mostly backups and stuff honestly
i have cable so my upload isnt that great, only ever had a backup needed for a large amount of data once
tribal ferry
One thing I have thought of doing is daily backups of my computer or something
So like ~4TB a day and keep it for one week
sweet flame
a backup to be requested*
That would be a great idea
If you go the used enterprise server route, see if you can get a server with 3.5" SAS bays... Those drives are cheap
tribal ferry
Yep, https://TechMikeNy.com is my planned source
sweet flame
Got any models you have your eyes on?
tribal ferry
Anything with 3.5” bays
sweet flame
Oh wow they have alot of plug and play type stuff in there
tribal ferry
R520 maybe.
sweet flame
Budget?
tribal ferry
No clue yet.
sweet flame
And what are you gonna run on these?
tribal ferry
This is all just planning.
Backup things or something
VMs
I don’t know, fun things for me to toy around with
sweet flame
Lol have you thought about virtual containers?
I use VMware but i heard proxmox is good
tribal ferry
ProxMox is what I use
Switched over from ESXi on my old computer I run upstairs as a hyper visor
tribal ferry
Decently enough for just testing things
sweet flame
Thats good
sweet flame
I got you
Well they definitely have some good stuff on that website. are you planning on running any game servers or high speed file servers on there?
tribal ferry
No need for high speed, just bulk storage.
Only thing I truly want is a central Samba server to edit code on the go for my hobbies.
I really find it a pain to have to copy files over to my laptop, a central place to “stream” them from is best
sweet flame
oh yeah you dont need any crazy high clock speed stuff then
tribal ferry
Yep exactly
Some large storage array that will be virtualized
Anyway, it’s currently quite late for me.
I’m going to head off now, it was nice chatting with you
sweet flame
yeah man you too. Good luck with your network adventures
dim rover
hi so
curious thing
my phone is connected to the work wifi and the IT doesn't like that one bit
so they claim that they're gonna restrict and remove access of unauthorized devices connected to the work wifi
the thing is
me being a noob at networking
the only method I know of is MAC exclusion
now, is there any other way that the IT department is going to remove/restrict access to the network other than mac exclusion ?
if mac exclusion is the only route theyre going to take anyway
considering that most devices connecting to a router uses randomized mac address anyway. this isn't going to hurt me one bit
unborn sluice
if mac exclusion is the only route theyre going to take anyway
considering that ...
what do you mean randomized mac
dim rover
don't devices connecting to wifi has the option to use either a randomized mac or the device's mac?
@unborn sluice i meant this
sweet flame
they might do a whitelist sort of thing
dim rover
that is true