#networking | Linus Tech Tips | Page 267

unborn sluice Jan 21, 2021, 2:36 PM

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I'll just call @tame carbon

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pepeLAUGH

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:37 PM

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I got my networking knowledge by LTT videos and some research on the internet. No formal education so I may ask stupid questions or don't know terms. 😄

unborn sluice Jan 21, 2021, 2:37 PM

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Basically why won't you let the NAS access the internet

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:38 PM

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vlans are basically kinda virtual switches inside a switch

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:38 PM

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idk maybe im a little too scared of the internet xd

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:38 PM

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or router

unborn sluice Jan 21, 2021, 2:38 PM

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drowsy sand idk maybe im a little too scared of the internet xd

i mean you're behind a nat sooo

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:38 PM

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peak cloak vlans are basically kinda virtual switches inside a switch

so I can create a virtual network or some sort

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:39 PM

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kinda

unborn sluice Jan 21, 2021, 2:39 PM

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it's not like people can access the nat directly unless you port forwad

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:39 PM

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yeah

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:39 PM

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Whats NAT

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xd

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:39 PM

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NAT + firewall

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Network address translation, allows 1 public IP to serve many other devices

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breaks the end-to-end principal of the internet though

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_IP_addresses

Reserved IP addresses

In the Internet addressing architecture, the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) have reserved various Internet Protocol (IP) addresses for special purposes.

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you have reserved IP ranges for private networks

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10.0.0.0/8

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172.16.0.0/12

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192.168.0.0/16

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those are not routable over the internet

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so I can 80% positive your local ip is 192.168.x.x

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that's the most common

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:42 PM

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kk

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so imma ditch the idea of another switch

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and use vlans

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:43 PM

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let me make a diagram

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:44 PM

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what a chad

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i made one aswell for the stupid switch idea kekw

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paint rulez

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:52 PM

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📎 diageram.jpg

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@drowsy sand

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vlans are basically just tags that the router and switch put on packets

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:53 PM

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imma wait till its loaded xd

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:53 PM

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to say this packet belongs to vlan 1 for example

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:54 PM

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discord having a stroke again

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:54 PM

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you may need to open it

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click on it, then open original

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:54 PM

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i did

cedar igloo Jan 21, 2021, 2:54 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387022787480387605/801826624789807144/diageram.jpg

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nvm

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:54 PM

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lel

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 2:55 PM

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@peak cloak scratch paint and use https://app.diagrams.net/

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:55 PM

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vlans by themselves don't provide security, it's the adding of firewall rules between them

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k

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:56 PM

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I set up the VLAN in my routers software via the browser or does it have its own browser address?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:56 PM

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wdym?

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:57 PM

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if I wanna set up a VLAN

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how do I do it?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:57 PM

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well not all routers and switches support it

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wherever you access the router settings

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 2:58 PM

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so in order to use it, I need a compatible switch/nics and a router?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 2:59 PM

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well switch and router, technically you don't even need vlans, you can just subnet the ports on the router

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I'll remake the diagram in diagrams.net

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 3:01 PM

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peak cloak I'll remake the diagram in diagrams.net

There is also an offline version too at the top. I use it almost exclusively for all my diagrams and only Visio for corporate meetings.

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:12 PM

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📎 Untitled_Diagram.png

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I hope this makes sense

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notice how the NAS isn't even using vlans

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it's just connected to a port on the router with a different IP

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what I"m not showing is inside the router you would have a DHCP server for every interface so devices automatically get an IP

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and then the firewall rules inbetween to actually secure it

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:14 PM

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yeah i wouldve installed one on my nas for the seperate network but that turned out to be a bad idea

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That's great. Gonna save that and do some research on the stuff I learned about today. Thank you guys very much!

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:17 PM

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one thing that is important to learn is the difference between Layer 2 and Layer 3

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Layer 2 is MAC addresses

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Layer 3 is IP

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most consumer switches operate at Layer 2

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:18 PM

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Yeah I have heard about layers.

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:18 PM

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so in that diagram vlan 10 is on a different L2 network than vlan 20

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and iirc all broadcast packets are restricted within a L2 network

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so all packets have to stay within their vlan, unless they go to the router, which will route it to a different vlan

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:21 PM

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man, i forgot most of this layer stuff again but wasnt it that managed switches had to do with layers and are way more expensive?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:22 PM

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so packets form 192.168.10.3 can go directly to 192.168.10.4 without going to the router, however packets from 192.168.10.3 to 192.168.20.3 have to be routed through the router first. L3 switches iirc can allow "jumping" vlans directly on the swich

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 3:22 PM

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why the nas on the router? isnt that more load and delay?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:23 PM

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waxen scroll why the nas on the router? isnt that more load and delay?

I was just giving an example of subnetting vs vlans

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 3:23 PM

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o

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reeeee

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:24 PM

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so i should put the nas on the switch instead?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:24 PM

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yeah, but if it was on different vlans the traffic has to go through the router anyway

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:24 PM

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oh okay

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how about building my own router with pfsense? 😄

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would that make any sense/have benefits or is it not worth the hassle?

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 3:25 PM

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the basic explanation is a router can only handle so much inside it... you might have 8 1GB ports on the router but you wont get a full gig with all of them going at once. With a switch it gets around that problem

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

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drowsy sand how about building my own router with pfsense? 😄

imo, it's not worth it

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

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waxen scroll the basic explanation is a router can only handle so much inside it... you might...

the more you know

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

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peak cloak imo, it's not worth it

kk

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

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like on many Cisco's they're full of 1GB ports but actually cant do more than 200mbit

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

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yeah that wouldnt strictly speaking be my goal

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So ill just get a switch that supports VLAN's, throw all my devices at it and call it a day?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:30 PM

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@drowsy sand pfsense routers get expensive real quick

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and performance/$ is poor compared to pre-built devices

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:31 PM

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kk

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:32 PM

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@drowsy sand 802.1q is generally supported by managed switches

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with routers, depends on what brand you have

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:32 PM

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The one my ISP has.

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:33 PM

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then 99.9% sure it doesn't

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:33 PM

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doubt an ISP modem/router will have support for vlans

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it'd be a first

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if it was

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:33 PM

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big sadge

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:33 PM

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@drowsy sand just buy a mikrotik and call it a day kek

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here i go shillin' again

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https://tenor.com/view/rick-and-morty-krombopulus-michael-killingtime-gif-9752156

Tenor

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 3:34 PM

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tame carbon doubt an ISP modem/router will have support for vlans

Past job we deployed our ONTs with hAP ac2 ping

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:34 PM

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@hollow marlin you get 100 internet points

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@drowsy sand https://i.imgur.com/KqzZL2k.png

Imgur

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VLANs are quite easy with RouterOS

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they present themselves as regular interfaces

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:36 PM

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kk

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So a VLAN with PC/NAS and then another one with everything else?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:36 PM

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Not sure why you need a VLAN, but ok xD

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I use it to route two isolated subnets over the same fiber

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because one subnet is public internet, the other my LAN

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:37 PM

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thats kinda the same that I plan to do

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:38 PM

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@drowsy sand the image above is vlan interfaces on a router

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if you have a switch, you just need to configure tag/untagging

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https://i.imgur.com/nAbhkoE.png

Imgur

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM

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ah ok

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM

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switches can handle tagging for you

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so if you plug a device into that port, it doesn't see a vlan

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the switch automatically tags traffic that goes in and out of that port

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM

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so bridge 1 and 1002 are in one network without internet
and birdge 1, 1001, 501/502/503, 200 are in the public internet stuff?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM

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vlan 1 is the default

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traffic that doesn't use 802.1q has vlan id 1

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so this is regular everyday ethernet

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@drowsy sand there's bunch of internal ones

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like vlan 1001 and 1002, are two seperate buildings here

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that each have a router connected to it

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https://wiki.mikrotik.com/images/thumb/c/c7/Basic_vlan_switching.png/700px-Basic_vlan_switching.png

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But I think this image explains it better ^

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so ether2 and ether3 are 'access ports'

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these ports tag/untag any traffic

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so if ether3 sends data to the router, the switch tags the traffic, and sends it to the trunk port ether1

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@drowsy sand https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Bridge_VLAN_Table

Manual:Bridge VLAN Table

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give this a read, it has a lot of diagrams

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and explains how it is ment to work

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:43 PM

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kk

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tyvm

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:43 PM

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But the trunk/access port ^ as in that image

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that is pretty typical

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the router <--> switch link uses a trunk with multiple VLANs

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and the switch handles tagging/untagging

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Consider the diagram above^

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look at vlan 30 (green)

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its connected on the switch

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but on the router

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https://i.imgur.com/KqzZL2k.png

Imgur

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it'd present itself like one of these interfaces ^

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM

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so its like in a company with supervisors and stuff

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM

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nah, its a virtual ethernet network

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM

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boss says to supervisor to do X and then the supervisor tells the person that is in charge of doing X to do X

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM

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basically allows you to stuff 4096 different ethernet networks down a single physical pipe

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@drowsy sand the reason you'd want vlan interfaces on a router, is so that you can route packets over them

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 3:47 PM

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yeah, so the router knows what to tag them

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:47 PM

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https://i.imgur.com/AxED4OF.png

Imgur

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Like this is for a switch

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this configuration says, whatever comes in on port 4 is untagged

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but has to be tagged, before it gets sent to port 1

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and vice versa

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if data comes in from port 1, it is untagged before sent out of port 4

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if you don't set up vlan ports then you'll have to configure vlans on the computer itself

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and not every device can do this

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so thats why you let the switch do it

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:50 PM

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kk

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:50 PM

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@drowsy sand another benefit: https://i.imgur.com/MUSiDVg.png

Imgur

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my ISP has internet & IPTV over two different vlans

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so even if internet is maxed out @ 250mbit/s

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iptv is unaffected

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you can set up different services with different bandwidth policies

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@drowsy sand lol just in passing reference, as it has come up before. This kind of structure with a single router behind a switch

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is called 'a router on a stick'

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Router_on_a_stick_concept.png

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:54 PM

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lol

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:54 PM

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Networks that utilise router on a stick benefit from only requiring one LAN connection to be used for multiple VLANs, i.e. the number of VLANs are not limited by the number of LAN ports available. Separation of network connections do not respond to the physical location of the ports on the router. Thus, this removes the need for multiple cable and wiring management.

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but it has downsides

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Compared to the alternative of using L3 (Layer 3 switching), the trunk may become a source of congestion as traffic from all VLANs must flow through the trunk link.

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this is the 'jumping' that @peak cloak mentioned

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Modern networks utilise L3 switch which provides greater bandwidth output and functionality.

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:56 PM

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and those are kinda expensive https://www.amazon.de/Cisco-SG250-08-Ports-Netzwerk-Switch-Schwarz/dp/B07B4W2RZF/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=l3+switch&qid=1611244561&sr=8-3

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:56 PM

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@drowsy sand do you even have a router with vlan capabilities?

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:57 PM

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i have yet to check

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but its from an ISP so basically no

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:57 PM

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ok

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well

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you'll need a router

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 3:57 PM

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im not sure if i can get my hands on one when I actually make the network

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 3:58 PM

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@drowsy sand https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/hEX_161115.pdf

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just as an example

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:00 PM

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for an l3 switch?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:00 PM

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this is a router

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:00 PM

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lol

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:00 PM

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but its vlan capable

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@drowsy sand just having vlans on a switch itself, wont be of much use

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unless you have something to route with

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:00 PM

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kk

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then a vlan capable switch+router

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and then i can isolate my nas?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:01 PM

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define, isolate lol

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because if you just plug it into a seperate port on the router, and configure it properly

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its already isolated

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:02 PM

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well, i dont want it to be connected to the internet

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:02 PM

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@drowsy sand a simple firewall rule is enough for that

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vlans are for layer 2

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not layer 3

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:02 PM

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kk

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:02 PM

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but you are behind a NAT aren't you?

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in that case, you can just hook up the NAS to your local network

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it wont be accessible from outside your house

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:03 PM

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considering I just learned about that term

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idk

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:03 PM

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@drowsy sand your public IP points to your ISP's router

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unless you configured port forwarding

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noone will be able to access any service you have internally

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a NAT is in effect, a firewall

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:04 PM

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NAT + most default firewall block NEW connections from the WAN interface

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Nat by design just doesnt allow it

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:04 PM

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unless configured to do so

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:04 PM

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i use the stock config that the router came with

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if thats any help

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:04 PM

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@peak cloak though some NASes decide to UPnP

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:05 PM

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yeah

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:05 PM

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PC connected via WiFi to the router, Nas connected to a switch that also is connected to the pc

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:05 PM

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@drowsy sand NAT, by default, on consumer routers is one-way-only

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means that the firewall permits outgoing traffic, by translating addresses

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but incoming traffic, cannot go into your local network

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unless you configured specific ports to be forwarded

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:06 PM

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no i didnt

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aight

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that clears things up xD

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:06 PM

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like, imagine hosting a minecraft server on your laptop

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:06 PM

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be wary of upnp though

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:06 PM

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it'd be on port 25565, on a local IP like 192.168.1.10

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if you wanted to make this public

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you'd configure port 25565 to be forwarded to 192.168.1.10:25565

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so when they browse to your public ip, (for example:) 51.23.20.2:25565

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the NAT (or network address translator) just translates the IP addresses back and forth

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anyone from outside, doesn't see this happening

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because all they see, is the IP of the router

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they don;t know that its forwarded to an internal IP

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:08 PM

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and if I am not under an NAT

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they can see it

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:09 PM

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if you didnt use NAT, your PC would have a public IP

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:09 PM

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you are, 100% unless you have ipv6

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you just have firewall

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:09 PM

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but you need NAT if you want more than 1 device behind 1 public IP

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because all the devices on your home network use the same public IP from your router

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NAT makes sure that traffic ends up at the right computer

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM

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tame carbon because all the devices on your home network use the same public IP from your ro...

now that clears a LOT

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM

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yeah

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NAT is a fix to the problem of not having enough IP addresses

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM

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multiple phones connected via WiFi so its 100% under NAT

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM

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IPv4 only has some 4 billion addresses

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not enough for every device on the planet

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ipv6 has enough for a million earth's worth of devices, and then some

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM

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I'll test it later I need the internet soon 😄

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For now I'm not downloading anything

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:11 PM

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@drowsy sand to further increase your understanding, consider this: there's two types of NAT

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src-nat or, source network address translation

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this is what is used when you have outgoing traffic

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and then there's dst-nat, or destination NAT

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this is port forwarding

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and the reason its called 'dst' is because the NAT modifes the destination IP address of the packet

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because the IP is destined for your public IP and some port

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the translator merely modifies the IP addresses on the packets

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https://wiki.mikrotik.com/images/2/2e/Hairpin_nat_1.png

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so consider a public IP of 1.1.1.1

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if we want to access a webserver on port 80 on host 192.168.1.2

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the router has to translate the addresses

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the outside (or WAN) doesn't know this

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it only sees the router

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:15 PM

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so the web server uses the dst-nat so that people can access my website, whereas it uses the src-nat to communicate with WAN

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or am i getting it wrong?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:16 PM

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no the router uses dst-nat to forward traffic for specific ports to an internal host

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so it has a list of rules

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any traffic to port x gets forwarded to host y

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host y is on a LAN, not accessible directly from the public internet

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@drowsy sand src-nat is the other way around. When you go to a website, the router marks the connection

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and any packets the website sends back to you

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get translated automatically

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this is better known as 'masquerade'

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where the router masquerades on your behalf

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Venezia_carnevale_7.jpg/1280px-Venezia_carnevale_7.jpg

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my router irl ^

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:18 PM

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so src-nat for every day pron googling and if i got a server that needs a port opened for other people to access my mc server, its dst?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:19 PM

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yeah, src-nat is for outgoing traffic over a single address

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and dst-nat is for incoming traffic to that single address

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:19 PM

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that makes sense

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:20 PM

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@drowsy sand if you go to google and search for 'what is my ip'

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itll show your public IP

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and not your local IP

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:20 PM

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if i am selling refurbished computers and host my own website, people go through dst?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:20 PM

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yeah so if you hosted a webserver on your laptop/computer

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and wanted to make it visible from your public IP

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you have to forward port 80 to your laptop's local IP

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port forwarding = dst nat

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:21 PM

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same with my plex server then

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:21 PM

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Yeah

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though think twice before you do end up hosting services

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things like encryption are important

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if you set up access to a web interface that doesn't use HTTPS

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you'll end up transmitting cleartext passwords

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:22 PM

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im pretty sure Plex uses HTTPS

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:22 PM

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this is why VPN is nice :)

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@drowsy sand even if it didn't

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you can always set up your own webserver proxy inbetween to handle SSL

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:23 PM

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gotta look up how to use a vpn then 😄

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:23 PM

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@drowsy sand https://i.imgur.com/0hbQ3jD.png

Imgur

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lol check this ^

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so these are the NAT rules I have in my router's fw

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you can see a dstnat rule to a public IP & port

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:24 PM

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drowsy sand gotta look up how to use a vpn then 😄

I have wireguard setup on my pi via pivpn

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:24 PM

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https://i.imgur.com/sfUZxhu.png

Imgur

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:24 PM

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peak cloak I have wireguard setup on my pi via pivpn

u wot?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:24 PM

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This is the 'action' of that rule ^

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:25 PM

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drowsy sand u wot?

wireguard is a vpn protocol

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:25 PM

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on a raspberry

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:25 PM

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@drowsy sand that router I linked earlier supports l2tp/ipsec

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:25 PM

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via a vpn service from raspberry?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:25 PM

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setting up a vpn server on that is trivial

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layer_2_Tunneling_Protocol

Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol

In computer networking, Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol (L2TP) is a tunneling protocol used to support virtual private networks (VPNs) or as part of the delivery of services by ISPs. It uses encryption ('hiding') only for its own control messages (using an optional pre-shared secret), and does not provide any encryption or confidentiality of content...

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l2tp ^

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nice thing about l2tp/ipsec is that it works on every operating system without modifications

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iOS, android, windows, GNU/Linux all do this easily

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:26 PM

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drowsy sand via a vpn service from raspberry?

pivpn is a nice installer that makes it easy

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it's not only for pi

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:27 PM

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@peak cloak VPN behind a nat = hell

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 4:27 PM

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I portforwarded waireguard

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:27 PM

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ima go eat dinner

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bbl

drowsy sand Jan 21, 2021, 4:27 PM

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have a good one

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and ty

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both of u

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Ive come to love the networking community

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Its so

#

normal

#

and so non-toxic

little schooner Jan 21, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

@waxen scroll I love the policy here at work where all employees and students are told not to save anything local to the PC because we need to be able to patch and re-image at anytime. I don't have to worry about data loss and outlook profiles , etc.

#

Just straight start imaging and begin anew

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 4:49 PM

#

yep. i save my stuff to one drive

#

i use desktop as a scratch pad for data I dont care about

#

quick notes, etc

little schooner Jan 21, 2021, 4:50 PM

#

Yeah. They are all told to use onedrive here.

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:50 PM

#

📎 Screenshot_20210121-175017_YouTube.jpg

#

Tech linked, with ads from HE.net

little schooner Jan 21, 2021, 4:50 PM

#

A few years ago that wasn't the case so I got the job at the right time

#

To not deal with profiles

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:51 PM

#

Prophiles

little schooner Jan 21, 2021, 4:52 PM

#

Manually copying them too

#

Using the laptop

#

It was painful

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 4:53 PM

#

@little schooner thats like linus torvalds, never ever had to make a single backup of his project

#

Others do it for him ^^

fair grove Jan 21, 2021, 4:59 PM

#

What’s the best way to get connection on my new pc besides Ethernet because I don’t have a long enough Ethernet cable

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 5:00 PM

#

ethernet

fair grove Jan 21, 2021, 5:00 PM

#

Besides Ethernet...

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 5:00 PM

#

there's no choice

#

ethernet, one way or another

#

be it wireless, or over a fiber or copper cable

fair grove Jan 21, 2021, 5:02 PM

#

So what’s the best wireless way

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 5:04 PM

#

probably not going to be more effective than a cable

#

and limited in range/signal quality

#

and very unreliable

fair grove Jan 21, 2021, 5:05 PM

#

Yeah ik wired would be better but I don’t have a long enough cable and I think? I have to plug it into my router and my router is on a different floor

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 5:07 PM

#

@fair grove you can lay your own ethernet ^^

fair grove Jan 21, 2021, 5:09 PM

#

What does that mean?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 5:11 PM

#

fair grove What does that mean?

put ethernet in the walls

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 5:14 PM

#

buy a cable

#

stuff it in a cable gutter, drill a hole or wahtever else you need to do

#

then put RJ45 jacks on the end, and bob's your uncle

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 5:17 PM

#

tame carbon then put RJ45 jacks on the end, and bob's your uncle

well best practice is to keystone it

little schooner Jan 21, 2021, 6:03 PM

#

@peak cloak I ruined one wall already doing that. I cut the hole too big and now it lost its original strength

#

It's patched up but if you push against the plate, it will cave in

#

Next time I'm measuring three times then cutting once

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 6:04 PM

#

oh yeah I did that

#

kinda

#

I created a small hole in the wrong place

#

too low

#

the hole is still there

cedar igloo Jan 21, 2021, 6:11 PM

#

@fair grove I may not have read the whole chat, but have you looked into Powerline Ethernet? It uses your existing power cables in the walls rather than creating ethernet runs. All you do is plug an ethernet cable into an adaptor at the router and an adaptor near your PC

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 6:44 PM

#

@clear igloo i see linus with an OM3, i click

#

@clear igloo optics EXPENSIVE

#

shows $30 FS.com

clear igloo Jan 21, 2021, 6:54 PM

#

lol, yah

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 6:55 PM

#

if ya'll think thats expensive I've got a VAR salesman to introduce you to

#

i saw a quote for 100G optics today for $60k

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 6:59 PM

#

OH WAT

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdR2cujwke4

YouTube

Linus Tech Tips

We just leveled up HARDCORE

Visit https://www.squarespace.com/LTT and use offer code LTT for 10% off

Check out 3DEXPERIENCE World 2021 and use promo code 3DX21LINUS at http://solidworks.com/TW-Linus-21 for FREE VIP access!

Over the years we've upgraded our networking many times, but we've always neglected one upgrade - fibre optics. Today that changes.

Buy 25G Fibre Tra...

▶ Play video

#

lol shit

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 6:59 PM

#

If hes complaining about FS prices, boy hes in for a treat

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 6:59 PM

#

Look at what they put up

#

time to get some popcorn

#

and watch with critique

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 7:00 PM

#

I stopped watching

#

kinda cringe

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 7:00 PM

#

+1 jedi tosses

#

3 taps for the sponsor spot

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 7:02 PM

#

peak cloak kinda cringe

Like running a single run directly to a PC instead of a to a bulk head so when they inevitably pinch/kink it, they need to run a whole new cable

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 7:02 PM

#

oh, he's glossing over the cable signalling

#

because its too nerdy

#

now I am curious

#

site 2 site tunnel?

#

@faint bronze do you just need it for shell access to a vps?

#

you can either set up a VPN server on either side and then make a tunnel

#

or use some kind of SD-WAN

#

https://www.zerotier.com/

ZeroTier

Adam Ierymenko

Home Main

#

@faint bronze if you just need quick access for a one time purpose

#

you can also just use ssh to make a tunnel

#

thats a oneliner command

#

to tunnel ports

#

I use ssh to access sql databases on a remote machine over the internet

#

easiest way to do it

#

lol they got upsold?

#

fiber tester?

#

what.

#

@peak cloak lmao I got bored

#

when they started laying cable

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 7:25 PM

#

yeah, why do they need a fiber tester for such a simple thing?

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 7:27 PM

#

@peak cloak cleaning tool is enough

#

I never bothered with that either

#

I just left the covers on

#

put the fiber in the module once the fiber was in place

#

and then just never remove it xD

#

@peak cloak Though I guess for long haul, and multimode, could be wanted

#

idk who it was, I think @hollow marlin said that MMF has some issues if the gap on either side is improper

#

causing reflections

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 7:30 PM

#

tame carbon fiber tester?

Complains about a $30 SFP being expensive but spends $6-8k on a fiber tester for a premade fiber.

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 7:30 PM

#

yeah 🤣

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 7:31 PM

#

tame carbon idk who it was, I think <@!462711605063450628> said that MMF has some issues if ...

Any fiber will have issues if there is any gap. MM more so just due to the larger area to cause reflections

waxen scroll Jan 21, 2021, 8:16 PM

#

the premade is already tested bro

#

each bag has the test results

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:23 PM

#

hollow marlin Complains about a $30 SFP being expensive but spends $6-8k on a fiber tester for...

Well sounds reasonable spent 6-8k $ and say that 30$ sfp is expensive. That's where all the money for his sfp lines that he could get went.

#

I'll test my network again now

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

i dont really know where to post/ask
so i'm trying to use port forwording, but it doesn't work. I tried different ports, port ranges, check if my local ip is correct over 100 times, and still not working, I'm scanning the ports with nmap btw

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

Let's see if there is any change.
I don't think the digital department will call me back as they said twice already

#

You're in the right place

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

oh

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

What router do you use ?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

ok

#

mezon

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:25 PM

#

Networking / server related things are here

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:25 PM

#

oh ok, will know where to come the next time

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:25 PM

#

Open source router ?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:26 PM

#

i dont actually know

#

let me google real quick

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:27 PM

#

I did first thing I got was github

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:27 PM

#

yea same

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:27 PM

#

That's what wrote on your router ?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

prime cradle i dont really know where to post/ask so i'm trying to use port forwording, but i...

ask your ISP if you are under CGNAT

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

Or in your router panel ?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

in both

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

you can check yourself if you can check the IP on the WAN interface

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

on*

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

Weird

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

i dont know why but it seems like it's only in my country

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

Where you from

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:29 PM

#

lithuania

#

and no i dont think they have it open sourced

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:29 PM

#

no that's a router OS

#

that's what came up for me too

#

@lean pebble oh

#

it's not a networking router

#

on the github page

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

Ya only panel

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

no

#

it's a middleware

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

Website I saw

#

Oh

#

Got even weirder

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

it's like a "reverse-proxy" router, kinda like traefik I think

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

would you mind speaking in words that a human like me could understand

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

that doesn't matter

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

,_,

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

We can't find it anywhere

#

😅

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

I was just discussing what this was

#

https://github.com/alexdodonov/mezon-router

GitHub

alexdodonov/mezon-router

Small and fast router. Contribute to alexdodonov/mezon-router development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

which is what is the first google result

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

yea i know

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

oh

#

Mezon is your ISP

#

@prime cradle ?

#

https://www.mezon.lt/

MEZON

Daiva

MEZON – NERIBOTAS 4G LTE INTERNETAS

MEZON greitesnis neribotų GB internetas ir išmanioji televizija. Paprasta naudotis – ĮJUNGI IR VEIKIA!

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 PM

#

yea

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 PM

#

yeah, that's your ISP not a router

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 PM

#

but they have

#

wat

#

brb

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 PM

#

Ewwww look what I found

#

📎 Screenshot_20210121-223207.jpg

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 PM

#

yeah it's a php router

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

Php router, I don't think php would be good for router 😅

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

no

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

Fortigate is javascript

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

for routing php requests

#

and things like that

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

Hell no

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

not a literal php router

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

Haha

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

ok so

#

its a zte router

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

Make sense

#

What model

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:34 PM

#

it's a 5g router?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:34 PM

#

why tf would you put a big a** sign mezon and then on the corner zte

#

its 4G

#

and i gotta get the model

#

brb again

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:34 PM

#

so you get your internet via 4g mobile?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

most likely

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

I hope his country have a good 4g not like here in my country

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

oh it sucks

#

in here too

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

It was good at the beginning

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

so internet comes in not by a cable?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

Now it's sucks

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

peak cloak so internet comes in not by a cable?

yea

#

can that be a problem

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:35 PM

#

because here in the US, mobile data providers CGNAT

#

if you can check somehow, check the IP on your WAN interface

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:36 PM

#

what ip ?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:36 PM

#

if not, ask your ISP if you are under CGNAT

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:37 PM

#

If it's cgnat what IP he'll get ?

#

Internal one ?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:37 PM

#

lean pebble Internal one ?

yeah

#

but not your typical local ones like 10.x.x.x or 192.168.x.x

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:37 PM

#

This protocol sucks

#

Ya 172

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

no

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

So?

hollow marlin Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

100.64 /10

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

Oh

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

@lean pebble 100.64.0.0/10

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

Gosh

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

yeah I just learned that

#

like last week

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_IP_addresses

Reserved IP addresses

In the Internet addressing architecture, the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) have reserved various Internet Protocol (IP) addresses for special purposes.

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 PM

#

I never red about it

#

My LTE provider IP is this 188.64.207.60

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:41 PM

#

oh yea i was wondering for a while, what can someone do with an ip other when ddos ? like imagine typical person that didnt do anything

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:41 PM

#

prime cradle what ip ?

📎 unknown.png

#

eth1 is what I plug into my ISP box

#

and that's the IP it gives me

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:41 PM

#

188.64.200.0/21

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:42 PM

#

prime cradle oh yea i was wondering for a while, what can someone do with an ip other when dd...

can't even ddos really if there are no services running

#

can try to hack into the router if there are exploits or badly configured firewall

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

I don't think it's cgnat here

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

cant find the ip you where asking for

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

Due I never tried to port forwarding on it because I don't have access but..

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:44 PM

#

prime cradle cant find the ip you where asking for

look for WAN IP or something like that

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:44 PM

#

oh

#

this ?

📎 unknown.png

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:44 PM

#

Here its only for cellular

#

Why your wan is 10.20? 🤔

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

oh, well for one your ISP has poorly configured CGNAT and yeah your under CGNAT so you can't port forward

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

aww

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

lean pebble Why your wan is 10.20? 🤔

yeah weird

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

well

#

what can you do about it
gonna buy a vps i gues

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

Are you sure you have internet?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

yes

#

im chatting with you rn

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

it's weird, my older ISP's first hop was to a 10.x.x.x address (but I had a public IP)

#

you could try running a trace route

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

Not you, present 😄

#

Oh

#

It's yours

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

peak cloak you could try running a trace route

on what ?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

My bad

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

windows?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

Haha

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

wat

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

tracert <ip of your choice, I do 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8>

#

so

#

tracert 1.1.1.1

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

My ISPs internal IPs is 10.0.0.0

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:46 PM

#

oh like that

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:47 PM

#

I'm on linux so I like mtr

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:47 PM

#

i was asking for ip

#

or

#

yes

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:47 PM

#

peak cloak I'm on linux so I like `mtr`

Me to

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:47 PM

#

prime cradle i was asking for ip

1.1.1.1 is cloudflare dns, 8.8.8.8 is google dns

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:48 PM

#

and what is it supposed to do ?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:48 PM

#

Trace your route

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:48 PM

#

well

#

i

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:49 PM

#

it won't really do much, just help you understand how your ISP's infastructure looks like

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:49 PM

#

well its done

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:49 PM

#

this is what mtr to 1.1.1.1 looks like for me

📎 unknown.png

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:50 PM

#

prime cradle this ?

I see here 132.100.0.1 ip above the wan is this the dns ip?

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:50 PM

#

its not 132

#

its the local ip

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:50 PM

#

🤔

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:51 PM

#

and i got this

📎 unknown.png

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:51 PM

#

wow

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:51 PM

#

?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:51 PM

#

multiple hops over 10.x.x.x

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:51 PM

#

Ya

#

Internal ISP network

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:52 PM

#

for context, 10.x.x.x is a local reserved IP, not routable over the internet. It's probobly because your on 4g

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:52 PM

#

oh

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:52 PM

#

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 is the whole IP range

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

so like

#

what does it mean ?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

📎 Screenshot_20210121-225307.jpg

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

your ISP is heavily using CGNAT

#

no way to port forward

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

I pinged my phone provider lte gateway

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

at all

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

peak cloak no way to port forward

oh

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

😂

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:53 PM

#

well

#

that really sucks

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:54 PM

#

This ping is high af

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:54 PM

#

lean pebble I pinged my phone provider lte gateway

install termux

#

linux shell on android

#

can do all the commands like ping, mtr, etc

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:54 PM

#

peak cloak install termux

It's from my phone

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:54 PM

#

yeah

#

termux is for android

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:55 PM

#

Haha I don't need it just wondered how much ping I get

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:55 PM

#

I understand completely nothing on how 4g or mobile networks work

prime cradle Jan 21, 2021, 8:55 PM

#

well ty for the help

#

hope you have a good day

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:55 PM

#

np

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:55 PM

#

peak cloak I understand completely nothing on how 4g or mobile networks work

It doesn't 😆

#

It's funny because my ISP and internet infrastructure are the same company as my cellular provider

#

The 4G actually connected to my home ISP

#

Just worst

#

In ping but speed better

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:58 PM

#

@prime cradle if you need help with linux, this is the place to ask, all the linux people like me just look at networking and development, nothing else

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 8:58 PM

#

Yap

#

You're a dev monkey ?

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 8:59 PM

#

kinda

#

I do some programming

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:00 PM

#

Nice me to

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:00 PM

#

not that good at it

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:00 PM

#

It's ok me to 😅

#

I'm using js and Java for now

#

Next semester / year I'll start c language

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:01 PM

#

I tried to make some simple plugins for xplane

#

it was all cpp

#

rn slowly working on a multiplayer game using js

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:03 PM

#

Nice

#

I'm working on discord bot

#

And soon on minecraft server

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:05 PM

#

ah never used java

#

technically I took a class on it, remember nothing

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:05 PM

#

Ya

#

Me to

#

But now learning all of this

#

From zero

#

Software engineering studies

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:06 PM

#

my school forced me to take python, it's an easy class, so boring

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

Boring but soo good

#

Powerful language

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

I don't like python

#

I used it once to make an animation

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

It's boring because you don't really learn in school

#

I love it

#

I found js frustrating

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

https://github.com/3b1b/manim

GitHub

3b1b/manim

Animation engine for explanatory math videos. Contribute to 3b1b/manim development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

I self taught myself python just enough to be able to make an animation

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:08 PM

#

I made packet capture in python and golang

#

I thought myself c at least tried

#

Annoying

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 9:10 PM

#

I learned the most programming in C++

#

arduino

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 9:11 PM

#

I'm learning trough doing projects now

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 9:13 PM

#

Most of my code was written in java :3

#

Out of all the vm languages, still the finest one to use

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 9:41 PM

#

@peak cloak most of the knowledge they teach you java for is not for java per-say

#

most of the time its the easiest language to teach OO concepts with

#

since it is a very strict language

#

you have to explicitly declare all members, their visibility and namespace

#

only things where the language infers types is with generics, and diamond-typed interface overriding

#

where one object implements two different interfaces with the same signature

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 10:20 PM

#

Ya I agree but if you come from python it's making you crazy to declare basics things everytime

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 10:43 PM

#

@lean pebble shorthands lol

#

I have bunch of fragments in my IDE

#

to just type 3 characters to get the prefixes for a variable declaration

#

classic one is psfs

#

hit space

#

expands that to; public static final String

#

for constants

#

its kinda rediculous compared to just const

#

but everything is an object

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 10:46 PM

#

Nah that's only js

#

I don't like it but I must learn it for my studies

#

😆

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

@lean pebble just embrace it

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

Teacher is kinda crap

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

java is gr8

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

So learning trough making bots in js

#

Java is for my studies to

#

Soon c will be there to

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 10:48 PM

#

tame carbon java is gr8

I agree used it alot for maplestory private servers before minecraft was out

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:08 PM

#

@lean pebble for nodejs make sure to embrace async

#

promises and stuff

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:09 PM

#

This discord framework is annoying

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:09 PM

#

lean pebble This discord framework is annoying

what are you using?

#

discord.js?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:09 PM

#

Discordjs

#

Ya

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:10 PM

#

what's annoying about it?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:10 PM

#

It's annoying because discord api blocks you from see your own custom status in my avatar command

#

😑

#

Need to put the bot in 76 servers for being verified to get this option.

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:10 PM

#

ah

#

that's just discord

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:11 PM

#

This is dumb

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:11 PM

#

also, just found out about mattermost

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:11 PM

#

It's not even private

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:11 PM

#

it's kinda like slack or discord but self hosted

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:11 PM

#

Mattermost

#

Never heard of it

#

I'll look into it

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:12 PM

#

are selfbots allowed with discord?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:12 PM

#

Yap

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:12 PM

#

might want to get one

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:12 PM

#

But discord kinda fucked it up

#

Things that is not private they made accessible only by their gateway

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:12 PM

#

tame carbon are selfbots allowed with discord?

aren't they banned

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

sad :(

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

Nope

#

Discord bots are allowed

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

they just respond to your own messages and change them

#

@lean pebble no selfbots sit ontop of the regular client

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

lean pebble Discord bots are allowed

discord bots are, not self bots

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

and modify whatever you say

#

so I could say:

#

~time

#

and it would replace that with the output from the command

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:13 PM

#

Well it gives me the avatar

#

But without my custom status

#

It looks like they even block getting the user status of streaming or listening by bots

#

That are not verified

#

But I'm not sure 100% because I made it work

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:15 PM

#

lean pebble But without my custom status

wdym

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:16 PM

#

https://youtu.be/_mxm7kqxQzA?t=2364

YouTube

SpinTwistRecords

Jumpstreet @ Unite - Psytrance Sessions

▶ Play video

#

sooo gooood

#

stupid pandemic

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:16 PM

#

peak cloak wdym

🤷

#

But I think I saw that people made all works using the python module

#

So considering go back to python

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:17 PM

#

are you trying to set a bots avatar or status?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:17 PM

#

Nope

#

Just to get it paste the user custom status

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:17 PM

#

oh of a certain user?

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:17 PM

#

Instead dnd for example

#

Ya

#

Wanna see what I mean ?

#

I have bot testing channel

#

Look I have custom status

tame carbon Jan 21, 2021, 11:19 PM

#

music through discord is so awful lol

lean pebble Jan 21, 2021, 11:19 PM

#

I just want it to show while I use -avatar for example

peak cloak Jan 21, 2021, 11:20 PM

#

sure dm it

nocturne harness Jan 22, 2021, 1:02 AM

#

tame carbon are selfbots allowed with discord?

Against TOS

lean pebble Jan 22, 2021, 1:05 AM

#

I fixed it

peak cloak Jan 22, 2021, 1:07 AM

#

lean pebble I fixed it

nice, what was the issue

lean pebble Jan 22, 2021, 1:08 AM

#

The code

#

When the front door is locked crack a window

#

😆

waxen scroll Jan 22, 2021, 1:38 AM

#

tos isnt legally binding @tame carbon go for it

#

nobody reads that crap

topaz smelt Jan 22, 2021, 3:44 AM

#

Is there any benefit to using 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi band over 5Ghz? The other day I asked for a Modem/Router combo and someone said "just use your ISP provided modem since you'll only be using 2.4Ghz" when I provided no info on the devices or anything using the connection

umbral bobcat Jan 22, 2021, 3:50 AM

#

topaz smelt Is there any benefit to using 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi band over 5Ghz? The other day I asked...

2.4 GHz is slower but more range.

#

5 GHz is faster but less range

topaz smelt Jan 22, 2021, 3:51 AM

#

Word. My router is right under my desk so I think I'll be fine with the 5Ghz lmao

umbral bobcat Jan 22, 2021, 3:51 AM

#

Ye

topaz smelt Jan 22, 2021, 3:52 AM

#

Is there a decent Modem/Router combo for under $150?

unborn sluice Jan 22, 2021, 3:58 AM

#

topaz smelt Word. My router is right under my desk so I think I'll be fine with the 5Ghz lma...

Word

topaz smelt Jan 22, 2021, 3:59 AM

#

unborn sluice Word

Word

waxen saddle Jan 22, 2021, 5:20 AM

#

The word is WiFi

#

I didn’t add anything of value... I’ll see myself out. 🙂 Goodnight all.

dusk marlin Jan 22, 2021, 6:59 AM

#

would there be any issues with me connecting an cat6 ethernet with a cat5e cable? I accidentally ordered a cat6 port plate

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 10:34 AM

#

@waxen scroll nice bait. selfbots are incredibly easy to detect.

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 10:52 AM

#

@topaz smelt hAP ac2 or hAP ac3

#

@topaz smelt under $150, might also be able to get a router & AP combo

#

like a hEX (or hEX S) + cAP ac

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac3

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/cap_ac

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/hex_s

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

lean pebble Jan 22, 2021, 11:22 AM

#

so much mtiks

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:43 AM

#

@lean pebble at least I can recommend someone this product, and help them set it up for their purposes

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:46 AM

#

Can anyone recommend an unmanaged 10GbE switch? 8-10 ports

#

when you search for them, too many are like 8 gigabit with 2x 10GbE ports

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:46 AM

#

yeah most of them do not have that many high speed links

#

@keen bridge I know of a 4 port 10G switch

#

that is affordable

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:47 AM

#

that'd do me for now!

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:47 AM

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

I have this one at home

#

Its a managed switch, runs RouterOS

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:47 AM

#

ah MicroTik rings a bell, didn't LTT feature it at some point?

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:47 AM

#

@keen bridge LTT's coverage on networking gear is ill-informed and poorly explained

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

oh I know, but it is occasionally good to just learn about what tech exists

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

@keen bridge I have that switch above, as a 10G backbone in my home

lean pebble Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

tame carbon <@!109801863771074560> at least I can recommend someone this product, and help t...

ya I like my mtik

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

its connected to my 10G router and server

lean pebble Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

hex-s

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

question then being where to buy it in the UK

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM

#

@keen bridge you should be able to get it from most places

#

mikrotik is not that uncommon

#

you just never see it in everyday stores

#

@keen bridge as a note on that switch I linked

#

it uses SFP+

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:49 AM

#

aye that's fine, Imma be buying new NICs too

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:50 AM

#

📎 20210115_104411.jpg

#

Basically ^ :D

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:50 AM

#

none of the main 3 parts retailers in the UK have it, Amazon does tho

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:50 AM

#

and single mode fiber optics

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:51 AM

#

they want £110 + £17 delivery :\

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:51 AM

#

I think MSRP for the CRS305 is $149

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:51 AM

#

so that's not too bad then

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:52 AM

#

@keen bridge just as a point of interest: this is the router I have connected to that CRS305

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

And mikrotik also has a special switch, with a lot of highspeed ports

#

lemme find it

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/crs309_1g_8s_in

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

#

@keen bridge this might actually be superior

#

1x 1G and 8x 10G

#

this switch, like the CRS305 is capable of dual booting SwOS and RouterOS

#

I always prefer the mtiks that run RouterOS over SwitchOS, since SwOS is rather limited

#

RouterOS can do what SwOS can do, and more

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:54 AM

#

availability for their products in the UK doesn't seem too hot annoyingly

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:54 AM

#

@keen bridge they are a european company

#

maybe brexit is showing itself here

#

not sure

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:54 AM

#

#brexshite

#

lol aye

#

what about this one? https://amzn.to/3pd3X4Q

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:55 AM

#

@keen bridge go the other way around, look on the mtik site and find the product through their vendor listing

#

amazon is overpriced

#

https://www.senetic.co.uk/product-crs309-1g-8s-in/

MikroTik Cloud Router Switch 309-1G-8S+IN with Dual core 800MHz CPU...

Gigabit Ethernet port, 8x SFP+ ports, PoE-in, 800MHz CPU, 512MB RAM, 16MB Flash, License level 5, RouterOS / SwitchOS

#

@keen bridge ^ ?

#

you linked the 209, older variant

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

gotcha

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

Sinetic is a reseller from london

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

ah the 209 isn't 10G

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

sells mtiks

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

god their menus are a pain in the ass xD

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

@keen bridge there may be alternative vendors, But I'm 100% mikrotik here

#

and for the lower segment their pricing is just excellent

#

and the features you get are unparalelled with many other equally priced devices

#

@keen bridge lol if you wanted to, that CRS can also act as a router

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:58 AM

#

do they sell the NICs as well or just the routers/switches?

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

not a very fast one, but it can route

#

@keen bridge they sell tranceivers, and thats about it

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

I literally just need something to get my server and workstation talking to eachother faster than gigabit

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

PCIe NICs you may have to buy from another brand

#

I went way over budget there

#

with a $250 dual 10G card from intel

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

that's probably what I'd be looking at actually for both machines

#

especially if I can do bonding for 20GBit xD

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

But you can get single 10G NICs for less than 60 bucks

#

@keen bridge there's no bonding on this

#

only a step up in link speed

#

10G, 25G, 40G, 100G, 200G etc

#

once you get to 25G and up, it gets expensive really quickly

#

we're no longer talking about 100s of dollars or pounds

#

but thousands

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:00 PM

#

ah so there's not much point getting a twin head card then?

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:01 PM

#

@keen bridge yeah I only use a single 10G link on the card lol

#

but I wanted more than one interface for futureproofing xD

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:01 PM

#

shame you can't do link aggregation

#

well, I could do OS-level aggregation though...

#

since its Windows Server talking to Windows 10 Workstation 😉

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:01 PM

#

You can do load balancing

#

but not on a CRS

#

they are hopelessly underpowered in terms of CPU

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

I'm wondering if I'm not just better off skipping the switch and just wiring the two machines together

#

they're the only ones that are gonna be equipped for it

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

they can archieve 80gbit/s switching, because they have hardware switching chips

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

gotcha

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

@keen bridge if its just two devices

#

the CRS305 is perfect

#

you plug the slower part of your 1G network into the ethernet port it has

#

and all your highspeed devices on SFP+

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

well right now it's just two, my QNAPs are up for replacement next year

#

and that's gonna be 10GBe

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

@keen bridge the setup here for 10G is just for multiplexing

#

so I have many 1G clients hitting the 10G nas

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:04 PM

#

yeah I'm doing a small number of endpoints hitting max throughput

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:04 PM

#

the 100G crap that LTT has set up with MMF

#

cost them probably around 5000-10000 bucks

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:04 PM

#

Does make me think they have money to burn sometimes if they're doing that xD

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:04 PM

#

Its just that expensive

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:04 PM

#

my company did a pre-roll sponsor one time, cost a bomb

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:05 PM

#

@keen bridge and in terms of cabling? have you made up your mind about that?

#

Copper on 10G is expensive

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

Doesn't make too much odds given the short distance, although £22 for a 2M cable is nutty

#

but that's with the transceivers attached

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

Directattach yeah

#

Thats reasonable though

#

@keen bridge I have bi-di transceivers here on singlemode fiber

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

if I was going more than a few meters I'd use fibre

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

they cost around 32 euros each

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

but I could go fibre just for ballin

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

if you use duplex fibers, transceivers are cheaper

#

cables slightly more

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

makes sense, less logic for them to do

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

nah, bi-di is complicated because they use the same medium for transmit and receive

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

Over that kind of distance am I going to be leaving any performance on the table using direct copper?

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

so there's some prism magic going on

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

gotcha

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

err, single mode, in its lowest 'distance' LR "Long Range"

#

is 10km

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

lol

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:08 PM

#

I have 30 meters of fiber here

#

_>

#

https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/74670.html?attribute=107&id=164638

FS Germany

Generic 10GBASE-LR SFP+ Transceiver Module 1310nm 10km

Check Generic 10gbe SFP+ transceiver module datasheet (10GBASE-LR SFP+ Module, 1310nm 10km DOM) and price list. 100% Compatible, Order Now!

#

@keen bridge like this would be a transceiver for duplex SMF

#

generic FS modules work fine in mikrotiks

#

https://i.imgur.com/nKtaL2E.png

Imgur

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:10 PM

#

its cheaper to buy a cable with the tranciever modules already on there, but your then facked if you want a longer or shorter cable

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:10 PM

#

Direct Attach is cheaper yeah

#

but the moment you need more distance

#

you can either go for an active optical cable

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

£200 for the switch is pretty decent

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

which is cheaper for 25G and 40G

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

then another £200 for a pair of NICs

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

or go the manual way with tranceivers + patch fibers

#

patch fibers are a joke, I paid 10 bucks for 30 meters of prefabbed cables

#

100 meters would be like 25 bucks

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:12 PM

#

I wonder if there are any PCIe 4 1x NICs

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:12 PM

#

@keen bridge jokes on you

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:12 PM

#

since the 4 1x would be the same as the 3 2x

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:12 PM

#

that dual 10G card I have is PCIe 2.0

#

its an 8x card

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:13 PM

#

the machine to my right only has 8x and 1x slots xD

#

no 2x

#

I suppose they've made them 8x cards so that even at 2.0 speeds they have enough bandwidth

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

yep

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

its just an older card

#

X520-DA2

#

The new X720 is PCIe 3.0

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

since at 3.0 a 1x slot wouldn't have enough bandwidth i suspect

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

not 4.0

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

4.0 is brand new

#

and PCIe is backwards compatible

#

so who cares :D

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

someone like me cares, who has no 2x slots but has PCIE 4 xD

#

got the bandwidth, but not the slots

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:15 PM

#

sluts? (this is an very inappropriate message, please dont mind)

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:15 PM

#

@keen bridge pretty much all the cards I can find are at least 8x

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:16 PM

#

aye, I do have a spare 8x but I don't want to use it if I can avoid it

#

since that limits what GPUs I can stick in this thing once I can get hold of one

#

a triple slot card would leave zero airflow if I then used the other 8x slot

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

@keen bridge or use a riser

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

or use a riser

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

you can get 15cm ribbon cards for a slot

#

move the NIC 2 slots down

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB260GS#fndtn-gallery
why has this switch its sfp port on the back

MikroTik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. MikroTik now provides hardware and software for Internet connectivity in most of the countries around the world.

keen bridge Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

that wouldn't work in this case, the riser would foul the other slots

#

and this case has no slots that don't line up with a board slot

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

@twin zealot probably because the front was out of space? :D

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

yeah, but rear is weird too

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

RB206

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

then make it wider

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

what a cute router

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:20 PM

#

can i just replace my modem at home, or will i get some problems with tv and thelephonie

#

or do i need to change the modem router to bridged

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:22 PM

#

@twin zealot can't say without knowing details on how your ISP implemented their service

#

in theory, yes

#

in practice: depends

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:23 PM

#

its ziggo

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:23 PM

#

@twin zealot I'm aware

#

but they dont document shit

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:23 PM

#

well, there i go

#

is kpn better than ziggo

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

no xD

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

nice

#

what is the best provider here than

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

@twin zealot at least not the major players

#

I'm on serverius' network

#

https://serverius.net/

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:25 PM

#

what

#

just broke in

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:26 PM

#

@twin zealot KPN sucks because they don't upgrade their DSL lines to fiber

#

and their support is awful

#

Vodafone's giganet has issues with their hardware

#

but this is been a running gag with ziggo & UPC

#

cable network has always been less reliable than DSL

#

but at least it carries more bandwidth

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:27 PM

#

so what doesnt suck here in the netherlands then

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

@twin zealot idunno lol

#

All ISPs been garbage

#

until I found http://weserve.nl/

Home - Weserve B.V.

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

lets start our own than

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

That's the service provider I have ^

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

twin zealot lets start our own than

we will just cut some cabel in the north sea and put our own in

tame carbon Jan 22, 2021, 12:29 PM

#

@twin zealot idk if deltafiber is in your area

#

you could check

#

https://www.deltafibernetwerk.nl/

Ga voor Glasvezel | Supersnel en stabiel internet | DELTA Fiber Net...

Snel internet voor iedereen in Nederland. Dát is de ambitie van DELTA Fiber Netwerk. Niet alleen in de stad, maar ook in het buitengebied of in kleine kernen.

#

"Doe de postcode check"

twin zealot Jan 22, 2021, 12:30 PM

#

frick

📎 unknown.png