networking

[weary hill]

That your home network?

[tame carbon]

the core

yes

[weary hill]

Dang son

[tame carbon]

the incoming fiber is on the left

[weary hill]

Nice

[tame carbon]

its only 250M

so I convert it to copper

[weary hill]

Wait why?

[tame carbon]

https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/en/995872_LB_00_FB/image.jpg

My router only has a single 10gbit port

and the fiber is only a 1G link

so I use one of these media converters, to go from SFP to RJ45

[weary hill]

Do you have an external fiber connection?

[tame carbon]

ye

[weary hill]

Or is this all for local?

[nova igloo]

Whats the max speed of SSF? Some say 1G some 10G

[tame carbon]

SFP?

1.25gbit

SFP+ can do 10gbit

[nova igloo]

single mode fiber

[tame carbon]

fibers have no real limit

[weary hill]

What speeds you rockin? External I mean

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/BaT5pfq.jpg

@weary hill the fiber on the left, is from the ISP

the spool of fiber on the right

is LAN

[nova igloo]

Oh its the module causing the speed limit

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yeah fiber is just ON/OFF signalling

[nova igloo]

makes sense

[tame carbon]

only thing that is really interesting with fiber is the signal to noise ratio

[nova igloo]

cant wait to dive to the sea and cut off the marine cable XD

[tame carbon]

being able to see a difference between on and off

[weary hill]

@tame carbon yeah, what speeds you get from the ISP?

[tame carbon]

@weary hill currently, I pay for 250mbit/s symetric

[peak cloak]

@tame carbon so it seems like his laptop can't ping the gateway, and on wireshark it keeps asking the mac of the gateway

[nova igloo]

only thing that is really interesting with fiber is the signal to noise ratio
@tame carbon The onlt affect is packet losss right

[tame carbon]

fiber has no packet loss

a good link is 0% loss

a bad link is 100% loss

[nova igloo]

lol

either yes or no

[tame carbon]

there's either light or no light

[nova igloo]

what will happen when high noise?

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo attenuation is the only factor

if attenuation is too high, there's no more light

no more light = no link

[weary hill]

@tame carbon nice, we got 250 symmetric too. (Meaning 250 Up&Down right?)

[nova igloo]

We can use repeater right

[tame carbon]

@weary hill symetric means both directions same speed

yes

[weary hill]

Right yea

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo fiber optic repeaters are a thing yes

EDFA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_amplifier

Erbium Doped Fiber Amplifier

[nova igloo]

Mine is on 30mbps :C

[tame carbon]

Erbium has some unique properties

[nova igloo]

but its the cheapest plan, only 20$

[tame carbon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Doped_fibre_amplifier.svg/1920px-Doped_fibre_amplifier.svg.png

You have a very strong pump laser

and your signal

[weary hill]

@tame carbon my ISP provides gigabit too so I think I could get Gigabit to my house but I’m not 100% in terms of like city cables and shit

But I’m guessing I could

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo you don't need fiber amplifiers for runs < 200km

[nova igloo]

Yeah ofc

[tame carbon]

There's also RAMAN amplification

[nova igloo]

Let us bring some lights to Africa, to those area lack of power sources

[tame carbon]

those use high power lasers

[weary hill]

@tame carbon do you do networking for a living? You don’t have to answer ofc if it’s too personal

[tame carbon]

but RAMAN scattering

makes my brain stop working

its like magic to me

@weary hill I do software engineering professionally

that was the need for me to learn linux

and networking after that

[weary hill]

Oh cool, so programmer then?

[tame carbon]

yes

The networking bit is just a hobby tbh

It grew out of the need to run servers for my software

fiber optics just interested me

[weary hill]

Awesome. I’m about to start studies on programming and system administration and web development. Been doing it for a long time on and off but never actually got any formal education

Yeah I hear you

[tame carbon]

@weary hill I went into fiber optics with 0 knowledge lol

[nova igloo]

I think every ITs should know Networking

[tame carbon]

I just did some reading up on it

and bought some toys from http://fs.com/

fiber store

they sell prefabbed fibers and transceivers

[weary hill]

That was programming and web development for me, I just wanted to make cool stuff and had to figure out servers, Linux, programming, just to make stuff and have fun with it

[nova igloo]

Yeah Prefabbed fiber are way more cheaper than the Modules

[tame carbon]

I paid like 5 bucks for 30 meters of fiber

with LC connectors spliced onto it

my transceivers were bit more expensive, because I use Bidirectional interfaces

so 1 fiber, two wavelengths (one for RX and one for TX)

32 bucks each

so 60-70 bucks for a 10gbit link

[nova igloo]

I think its worth what

[weary hill]

Not bad eh

[tame carbon]

direct-attach-copper, is cheaper

3 meters copper 10G SFP, like 20 bucks

[nova igloo]

Those high tech stuff only 20bucks, people spend so much timke designing it

[tame carbon]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71dUkH0L%2BFL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

These can be used within the same network rack

to do 10G networking on the cheap

they are cables with SFP+ spliced onto it

[weary hill]

SFP, was that uhhh... you mentioned sfp and sfp+ earlier

I forgot already

[nova igloo]

Does these modules go bad easily as HDD/SSD ?

[tame carbon]

@weary hill SFP is Small Formfactor Pluggable

SFP+ is same connector type

but its faster

[weary hill]

Ahhh

Yes

You were saying earlier that you could get fiber optic cables with SFP

That’s what it was

[tame carbon]

Yeah my ISP uses regular SFP

but thats because the fiber link is only 1gbit/s

the actual internet speed is 250M

[nova igloo]

Most SFP+ port works with SFP right

[tame carbon]

but things like IPTV are also done over that fiber

and if you watch TV, doesnt slow down internet

[weary hill]

Right

[tame carbon]

@weary hill https://i.imgur.com/Yc7lNew.png

[clear igloo]

Other way around
SFP can work in an SFP+ port but not vice versa

[tame carbon]

^

[clear igloo]

SFP is 1g and SFP+ is 10G (or mgig which is 2500/5000/10000 if you find a transceiver for that)

[tame carbon]

2.5G and 5G are rare

my router supports them, but I've not seen them

its either 1G or 10G

2.5G and 5G is waste of time

[weary hill]

@tame carbon man most of this shit is alien speak to me when it comes down to connectors and all this shit

[clear igloo]

Yah, I think Mikrotik has or announced some

[tame carbon]

@clear igloo mtik has 40G support now :)

on their new gear

[clear igloo]

Nice

[nova igloo]

btw the Price gap between QSFP+ and SFP+ are big

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yes

[clear igloo]

Just wait until you see QSFP-DD 😛

[tame carbon]

QSFP+ transceivers can cost upwards of 1000 bucks or more

[weary hill]

@tame carbon is that probably because the price difference is so negligible that you might as well go 10G?

[tame carbon]

@weary hill yeah

2.5G is rare

[weary hill]

Makes sense

[tame carbon]

10G is more common and well established in the industry

[weary hill]

Yeah

Okay makes sense

[clear igloo]

10g copper has been around for about 10 years, mgig (2.5 and 5) has been around for like 2 or 3

10g itself though has been around much longer

[tame carbon]

I went a bit overboard with my network controllers

I paid 150 bucks for an intel XDA-520

dual 10G SFP+ card

they are still expensive

[weary hill]

Hahahaha

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/YQyU19g.png

but they look like this

Mine uses PCIe 2.0

[weary hill]

Why yu do dat

Pls

[tame carbon]

my server didnt have 10G

only 1G

instead of a graphics card, it has a network card

[weary hill]

Of course

Unless you’re doing video render server or whatever

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/JH9S6Ja.png

@weary hill NAS

[dusty osprey]

Oh a pc made to be a server not a real server >.>

[tame carbon]

What

@dusty osprey its a Ryzen 2600 with ECC memory

mini ITX board in a 2U case

yes its a server

look, LTT puts RGB memory in their server cases

[dusty osprey]

2U case 😮

[tame carbon]

if they get to call it a "server"

then so can I

the motherboard has RGB.. xD

[weary hill]

Rofl

[tame carbon]

Its disabled though

[weary hill]

Is that the AORUS I see there?

[tame carbon]

yep

B450 Pro

Mini ITX

[weary hill]

Hahaha

Yikes

[tame carbon]

I'm still salty about this board though

[weary hill]

Server RGB next gen stuff homie

[tame carbon]

I can't find any boards that fit in this case, that have two PCIe slots

so I am limited to just one

[weary hill]

Does it support ECC memory?

[tame carbon]

Ryzen does

with intel, you need Xeon

[weary hill]

Ahhh, so is it down to the board or literally just the CPU socket?

[dusty osprey]

CPU itself

[weary hill]

Gotchu

[tame carbon]

has to do with the memory controller

[weary hill]

Okay

[dusty osprey]

i think......

[tame carbon]

and these days, memory controller is built into the CPU

used to be on the north bridge

[weary hill]

Right yes

Gotchu

[dusty osprey]

oh. So it's actually upto the cpu ryt crystal?

[weary hill]

Wow all Ryzens support ECC?

[tame carbon]

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/ryzen_5/2600#Memory_controller

[dusty osprey]

Seems like it 😄

[nova igloo]

https://www.fs.com/sg/products/97356.html
Do u think this can stop DDOS?

[tame carbon]

Yes

:)

[weary hill]

Nice

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/Ru2tBia.png

@nova igloo I wouldn't get network appliances from FS

[dusty osprey]

Networking gear only doesn't have to do with what stops DDoS actually @nova igloo

[weary hill]

Although I guess it makes sense to only support it on CPUs that actually are intended for server use cases

But it’s nice if it’s there

[tame carbon]

@weary hill well, ECC is kinda wanted for a VM host

more reliable

[dusty osprey]

Eh many companies do use it also as servers so yeah. Well the smal ones

[peak cloak]

I heard ddr4 has some sort of ecc, is that true?

[dusty osprey]

Yes

No

Not like that

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak this is DDR4 2400MHz ECC

But its unregistered

[dusty osprey]

A RAM is "ECC" enabled when it has ECC on it

[tame carbon]

there's different kinds of ECC

[nova igloo]

there's different kinds of ECC
@tame carbon Wot???

[tame carbon]

There's UDIMMs and RDIMMs

both can be ECC

Don't ask me for the specifics on what is what

[weary hill]

@weary hill well, ECC is kinda wanted for a VM host
@tame carbon sure I’m just saying most people buying an 8700K or whatever aren’t going to use it for server or Virtualization

[tame carbon]

I am not an expert on ECC

I looked at the documentation AMD gave me

for modules that have ECC, that they have tested with

and just bought those

I think its Kingston memory that I use

or Crucial

I forget

[weary hill]

Yeah but do they have RGB THATS THE REAL QUESTION

[tame carbon]

no

[weary hill]

WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DOING

[tame carbon]

they are boring green modules

[weary hill]

DO OVER, DO RIGHT

[tame carbon]

wat

[weary hill]

LEARN

[tame carbon]

you know how much I paid for these?

200 euros for 16GB (2x 8GB)

[weary hill]

Don’t care they don’t shine like a rainbow when it’s dark and nobody’s looking

[tame carbon]

RGB is waste of power

[dusty osprey]

In ebay usually they are dirt cheap tho crystal

[weary hill]

Hahahahaha I’m just fucking with you man

[tame carbon]

@dusty osprey not during the RAM shortage of 2018

[weary hill]

It is a waste of power I agree

Also must add some small amount of heat

[tame carbon]

took me ages to find a supplier

[weary hill]

Unnecessarily

[tame carbon]

for these modules

[nova igloo]

Wow DWDM is three more expensive than CWDM

[tame carbon]

ofcourse

DWDM has much smaller channels

[weary hill]

200 euros for 16GB (2x 8GB)
@tame carbon that’s kinda fucked

[tame carbon]

@weary hill yuh

ECC

xD

[nova igloo]

the cost for short range DWDM is approximately 26,000$ excluding labour fee

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yeah but you don't use DWDM unless you have 100s of channels

[nova igloo]

I think ECC is not necessary if u r running servers just for fun

[tame carbon]

you can get away with CDWM and multiple fiber pairs

[weary hill]

And the cost of RGB is like nothing so why wouldn’t you just opt RGB 4Head Kappa LUL

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo I run business software on this for my customers

as well as it being my home NAS

my ISP has given me a /29

[nova igloo]

Oh yeah NAS is important, very important

[tame carbon]

so I can just give my VMs a public IP

[weary hill]

Oh nice

[dusty osprey]

Lel crystal do some BGP and get an ASN then you can own your blocks haha

[weary hill]

Wait where do you live? If you don’t mind @tame carbon

[tame carbon]

sadly no BGP for me

@dusty osprey its statically routed to my WAN

[nova igloo]

I'm very jealous lol, cant get static public ip

[dusty osprey]

get a bgp provider in an datacenter then :p and then host your stuff there (yeahhhh its expensive)

[nova igloo]

dont bgp need atleast a block of /24 ?

[tame carbon]

not sure what BGP needs

BGP is magic to me

until someone explains it to me in detail

[hollow marlin]

Publicly accepted, yes you need a /24

[tame carbon]

@weary hill Netherlands

[dusty osprey]

Oh yes

[tame carbon]

@weary hill https://www.weserve.nl/nl/fiberfttx/

[weary hill]

@tame carbon That explains a lot

[nova igloo]

BGP is something telling the public u r the authorized shortest/best path to ur server

[dusty osprey]

Its for peering providers and stuff

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yeah but I don't do peering

I only have one fiber path

so BGP is kinda moot

[dusty osprey]

BGP is what your isp does, or datacenters

[tame carbon]

BGP is between ISPs

[nova igloo]

I think BGP can works on a single fiber ?

[tame carbon]

wat

[dusty osprey]

Eh yes

[hollow marlin]

BGP is everywhere now

[tame carbon]

BGP is a networking protocol

has nothing to do with fiber

[dusty osprey]

If you get a cable which allows bgp then you can utilize it.

[nova igloo]

u said u only have a fiber path

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yeah only one path to the internet

BGP makes sense if you have multiple internet connections

and have to mediate between them

[dusty osprey]

it's basically for carrier neutrall datacenters basicaly

Its for their grade

[tame carbon]

These are the carriers my ISP peers with: https://i.imgur.com/rcppPal.png

[nova igloo]

I think BGP most often used for DDoS protection

[tame carbon]

These guys ^ use BGP

@nova igloo nope

[dusty osprey]

Those are carriers : cogent, he, tata

[jaunty talon]

All ISP's in the world uses BGP :)

[hollow marlin]

@tame carbon Tell that to the dozen or so customers I had to tell they don't need full tables with a single homed connection

[tame carbon]

xD

[dusty osprey]

single home Cogent god forbid

[jaunty talon]

@hollow marlin they might, if they want to drop specific traffic :)

[dusty osprey]

peering with an IP transit only is BS, isps peer with IX's to reduce bandwidth cost by a lot

[tame carbon]

@hollow marlin I was tought OSPF in school lol

no mention of BGP

[hollow marlin]

@jaunty talon You don't need full tables for that.

[tame carbon]

block russian and chinese IPs

nobody needs those

[jaunty talon]

@hollow marlin no, but its much easier if you do it based on ASN rather than keeping track of what a ASN announces

Then you never have to care about more than ASN :)

[dusty osprey]

block russian and chinese IPs
@tame carbon i do that :D

[weary hill]

Alright this conversation is officially out of my understanding.
But thanks for the talk guys it was interesting

[tame carbon]

@weary hill welcome to the den of smarts

the land of #linux and #networking

[weary hill]

Thenks.

[nova igloo]

Any explanation why so healthcare data worth so much of value? People spend so much on it for either protecting and attacking

[tame carbon]

advertisements

so they can show you decongestants if ur having stomach issues

[weary hill]

As with all personal data

[tame carbon]

though ,wattson is another purpose

https://www.ibm.com/watson-health

[nova igloo]

But actually i think 95% of ads are useless to me, the first thing pop in my head is "SCAM"

[tame carbon]

ads are a menace

bunch of overhead

and attack vector

but I guess side effect of capitalism

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow marlin]

@jaunty talon You do not tend to wan't to filter just on ASN alone. Typically with just ASNs alone is on single homed connections is where you need to start using communities for intra-area purposes

[jaunty talon]

@icy thistle Agreed that it's not common, but if I would be a customer of yours I would want to have full table for the single reason of ability to drop traffic when needed! :)

[nova igloo]

fs.com products and websites looks premium and reliable

[tame carbon]

fuck

whats the regexp flag for 'case insensitive' ?

[jaunty talon]

@nova igloo FS is good :) I use FS for all DAC cables in our DC

[nova igloo]

Oh u have a DC, I have a dream on tht

[jaunty talon]

failure rate is under 1 per 100 cables

[tame carbon]

@jaunty talon you guys hire? xD

[jaunty talon]

all the time, but at the moment not in my department :(

[nova igloo]

failure rate is under 1 per 100 cables
@jaunty talon I think it's pretty high???

[tame carbon]

if you need a capable developer ;)

[jaunty talon]

https://www.embark-studios.com/

[tame carbon]

I'm almost done formalizing my education, took a bit longer

[jaunty talon]

then we hire for sure, if you want to code :D

I code maybe 25% of my time

[tame carbon]

I do mostly backend development

[nova igloo]

Dont delepoers nowadays just wiring things up like lego

according to Youtubes

[tame carbon]

https://www.embark-studios.com/jobs/992808-back-end-engineer-backend-delivery

@jaunty talon lol

[jaunty talon]

there you go!

[tame carbon]

I'll keep a tab

I work at an ecommerce place right now

[jaunty talon]

That team works mostly on backend services related to gameservers etc :)

[tame carbon]

need to do that to graduate

I don't really like webdev

its boring me

[jaunty talon]

we have 0 webdev :D

[tame carbon]

@jaunty talon I've developed multi server modules for minecraft lol

so you can transfer profiles

between servers

[jaunty talon]

nice

[tame carbon]

and seamlessly hop between nodes

most of that was done with redis

[jaunty talon]

Let me know if you apply, and I will poke some ppl for you!

[nova igloo]

What software is that? Crystal

[tame carbon]

Hehe, @jaunty talon Spring 2021 will be soonest if at all

@nova igloo what do you mean?

[nova igloo]

or what Hosting Company is that

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo nah, I developed a bunch of custom plugins for a gameserver I help operate

been doing that since 2014

[nova igloo]

Oh cool an OG

I mean what does the control panel called, which u mentioned it can transfer servers between nodes

[jaunty talon]

@tame carbon ok, well feel free to poke then! :)

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo its all custom

I call it KnockturnCore

there's no control panel

its just config files

and middleware

https://knockturnmc.com/

Playerbase has shrunk significantly though

[nova igloo]

I see isee

[tame carbon]

we used to have like 100-200 people on regularly during weekends

between 2015 and 2018

@jaunty talon cool, thanks :)

[nova igloo]

Knockturn seems going to their end

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo I learned how to develop distributed systems through that project

[peak cloak]

I still don't know if I want to go into areospace engineering (rockets and stuff) or networking

[nova igloo]

Ermmm to that guy who mentioned the PoE stuff

I think yes, it will?

@peak cloak Depends on ur hobby dude

dont follow the money

[peak cloak]

you see, both are what I like

[nova igloo]

then Aerospace?

I think we need that alot in the future

"Flying Cars"

[hollow marlin]

@icy thistle Agreed that it's not common, but if I would be a customer of yours I would want to have full table for the single reason of ability to drop traffic when needed! :)
@jaunty talon Its better to filter by IP not ASN though, even then, full tables are not needed.

[jaunty talon]

Why is that better for the end customer?

[nova igloo]

any suggested PowerBank? All my powerbank went expanded

[jaunty talon]

More work to filter by IP, since you need to keep track of what's announced from the ASN. Easier just to drop that ASN from the table

[hollow marlin]

Because filtering an entire ASN does not guarantee you are going to drop specific traffic especially in cases where you are just blacklisting because of malicious activity. I don't understand the reasoning behind blocking entire ASNs

[jaunty talon]

How does filtering a specific ASN not guarantee same as dropping an IP announced by the ASN?

[tame carbon]

dont russians abuse this very feat?

announce a fake prefix

[jaunty talon]

that's a completely different thing :)

[tame carbon]

nvm

[jaunty talon]

they announce someone elses IP to hijack the traffic

[tame carbon]

yeah but ASN never changes right?

[jaunty talon]

It does in that case

But it's not why you would block a certain IP

[tame carbon]

right, the owner of the prefix changes to a different ASN

go back 30 years ago

internet was still based on trust

[jaunty talon]

You could argue that it's in many cases still

It's just the last two - three years RPKI has been a thing

Only a few Tier1 carriers have implemented RPKI

[nova igloo]

I think ASN need some requirement to get?

Its not as easy as driving license

[jaunty talon]

You can apply for one from your regions RIR

[hollow marlin]

How does filtering a specific ASN not guarantee same as dropping an IP announced by the ASN?
@jaunty talon If you require blocking an IP that lies within an ASN and just have a policy on the ASN alone and that block is sold/transferred the ASN will change and you will have to now keep track of what block the ASN is in

[nova igloo]

Mine is APNIC

[jaunty talon]

Sure that could happen. But reason why you want to drop per ASN is that you might be attacked from lets say China Unicorn and instead of getting a list of all IP's they announce you just temporary drop traffic from AS4837

Or two different ASN numbers

I am not saying that dropping ASN is the only way to do it, I just say that why not take full table from your transit and be able to do things like that without having to care about anyone else but yourself, as much as you can drop a specific IP/prefix!

[nova igloo]

Why not just drop the whole /24 ip, way more simple than ASN

[hollow marlin]

ASN can consist of 10,000s of blocks

[jaunty talon]

Well @nova igloo do you want to drop these: https://bgp.he.net/AS4837#_prefixes

Manually!

Or just keep that up to date with a list of prefixes you block, instead of just dropping the whole ASN :P

[nova igloo]

Well... use script? Which kept track the IPs

[tame carbon]

why is Microsoft teams so shit

[hollow marlin]

IP is the more reliable route. The better solution for filtering to block malicious traffic is BGP flowspec. As long as you are not L3 and manage to accept flow routes for port 179

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/22aKRtr.png

like

everytime.

you got more telemetry than I know

you tell me how the call quality was.

[unborn sluice]

Slack > teams

[tame carbon]

slack is also garbage

slow

and sometimes unavailable

[unborn sluice]

Haven't seen it as unavailable for us

guess we should go back in email days

[tame carbon]

and slack's text system is weird

[unborn sluice]

we need to follow up if the recipient got it

[tame carbon]

it has minimal markdown support

but no syntax highlight

for inline

int main() {
  return 0;
}

[unborn sluice]

fair point, but I usually do my coding in an IDE

[tame carbon]

yeah

but if you are sharing snippets of code

with coworkers

its nice to have syntax highlight

[unborn sluice]

agreed

wait, is it weird that I use link (from zelda) for official communications

[tame carbon]

At our workplace, everyone has their own avatar

made by one of the designers

I have my own coffee mug with my avatar on it

:)

[unborn sluice]

understandable

[tame carbon]

its a nice touch

[unborn sluice]

wait teams also have no syntax highlighting?

[tame carbon]

teams for text communications?

lel

its even worse

[unborn sluice]

yeep

it's really not built for developers

i wonder who is the target

[waxen scroll]

me, a business user

i use it

it has its place but I agree the teams portion of it is a little rough sometimes if you're used to discord/slack

i like how i can make calls, meetings, and chats in one platform

the chats itself from person to person, or person to group (non-team) is fine

[unborn sluice]

Tbf, yes teams is useful especially for the people that benefit from the office integration

it's much easier to set up calendars and meetings this way

instead of having outloook and slack

having 1 calendar that works is just

[waxen scroll]

until someone in the same company decides they wants a webex

then its FFFFFUUU

[willow hamlet]

is eero good cuz i have it

[unborn sluice]

I haven't tried webex yet

[willow hamlet]

kekbex

[unborn sluice]

and from what I heard, I wouldn't want to

[waxen scroll]

its fine if you dont self host, but its more of a slight hassle to join meetings when you already use teams

[unborn sluice]

Yea, I think that's really a good reason to use teams

since teams already use office apps

it's just seamless for most of the time

[waxen scroll]

*all these people in here wondering "will i ever have to join meetings?"

yes. yes you will.

i have like 4 of the damn things per day

[hollow marlin]

Don't forget your meeting to cover upcoming meetings

[waxen scroll]

we have those, im serious

work accepts that people have up to 4hr of meetings per day and the rest work

[hollow marlin]

We do also, just preparing the youngins'

[tame carbon]

developer meetings can be cool

but business meetings with upper staff is boring

[nova igloo]

Hey Crystal, what u use for SSH

Checkout Bitvise SSH

[tame carbon]

ssh

[peak cloak]

yeah same, just ssh

[tame carbon]

Well

its OpenSSH

but idk anyone who doesnt use openssh

@nova igloo if you want to be able to manage session configs, PuTTY generally works quite nice

but it can do lot more than just ssh

https://www.putty.org/

on my linux workstation, I have no need for putty

[nova igloo]

I use Bitvise, its more GUI

[tame carbon]

I can just use ssh or minicom for modem related features

@nova igloo why do you need a gui

GUIs are the worst

[nova igloo]

oof

[tame carbon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Minicom_cs_xterm.png

minicom ^

terminal based modem software

@nova igloo to connect: ssh crystal@server

[nova igloo]

not yet seen such thing b4

[tame carbon]

filetransfers can be done either with scp

or with sftp

scp is quite easy to copy single files with

[nova igloo]

Well, Bitvise come with SFTP,which FileZillar like

[tame carbon]

scp hello.txt crystal@server:/home/crystal/hello.txt

[nova igloo]

but most of the time i only use ssh

[tame carbon]

this copies hello.txt from my local machine, to a remote machine to /home/crystal/hello.txt

[nova igloo]

looks like copying files within a OS

[tame carbon]

https://linux.die.net/man/1/scp

It just uses ssh

ssh is powerful

it can do many things

[nova igloo]

Can SSH act as VPN?

[tame carbon]

you can set up tunnels yes

[nova igloo]

SSH is so safe

[tame carbon]

you can set up ip:port -> ip:port tunnels between hosts

you can also do SOCKS proxy

for things like browsing websites

ssh -D 8081 -q -C -N -f crystal@remote

this is that oneliner I use to spawn a SOCKS proxy

opens up a local proxy server on port 8081

and I have my firefox configured to use that one

[nova igloo]

but why lol

whats the purpose to proxy in local network

[tame carbon]

no

it doesnt do that

it proxies to the remote server

so it appears as though I am browsing the internet from over there

all traffic is piped through ssh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS

@nova igloo ssh is just the de facto for remoting into servers and other kinds of unix machines

you can use it for a shell

you can use it to tunnel network connections, transfer files

etc

you can even do display forwarding

[nova igloo]

Display forwarding?

[tame carbon]

yeah

you can pass your local display server through ssh

so that if you run a program on the remote server that has a GUI

the GUI will be presented locally, even though the program is running remotely

[nova igloo]

BTW

[tame carbon]

its done with ssh -X

[nova igloo]

do i need a Proxmox license if im doing business with that

[willow hamlet]

socks

cocks

[nova igloo]

no

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo isnt proxmox open source?

[nova igloo]

https://tenor.com/view/piecitos-juguetones-sock-gif-8315583

its AGPL v3.0

[tame carbon]

yes

[peak cloak]

@nova igloo pretty sure that's just if you want support

[tame carbon]

public domain

you can use proxmox for business

proxmox sells support to business customers

thats how they make money

its only companies like microsoft, that sell you software directly

linux does not make profit on the software itself

but the service

[nova igloo]

Oh so its okay to use Proxmox without subsription

[tame carbon]

its open source

[nova igloo]

even using it for making money

[tame carbon]

open source means: you are free to use, change, redistribute

as long as you adhere to GPL

[nova igloo]

i see i see

[tame carbon]

Linux is GPL too

GPL 2.0

[peak cloak]

wait, how does RedHat work tho?

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak same thing

@peak cloak they sell "extended support" with their OS

if you care little about running the server

and only care about your applications

then you can hire RedHat to manage your infra

[nova igloo]

Stable version of ubuntu haha

[peak cloak]

not really??

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak the benefit is that RedHat shares the sourcecode they write for custom features

so customers are in control of their technology

[peak cloak]

hmm alright

Isn't RedHat not based on dedian, like ubuntu but on fedora

[tame carbon]

wat

[peak cloak]

Stable version of ubuntu haha
But ubuntu is debain based, while redhat is fedora based

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak not entirely sure how RHEL came to be

I know that the Fedora project was mainly to port packages to redhat

until it became its own OS

work from RHEL fed back into Fedora

and I think CentOS is also from that era

[nova igloo]

CentOS is the most stable one right

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/QKDMFOH.png

@peak cloak they have upstreamed quite a few times

RedHat also forced systemd through everyone's throat

so instead of them having to write support for all other systems

[nova igloo]

Checkout my super slowwwwww parcel

[tame carbon]

they made everyone else do it the way RedHat does it

xD

@nova igloo Fedora, CentOS, RHEL are all just linux distributions

theres so many different ones now

but those are the big players

debian is another major one

debian is most popular

[nova igloo]

So it means RedHat originally were from the originLinux

but after a while they changed to Fedora

[tame carbon]

Linux != Linux Distribution

Linux is the kernel

A distribution is usually a GNU system /w linux

https://www.gnu.org/home.en.html

the GNU project gave us GCC and the GNU coreutils

GCC is the C compiler

[nova igloo]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[tame carbon]

and the coreutils are typical programs like cd, ls, pwd, cp, mv etc

@nova igloo its just history

Linux is standing on decades of work

from smart people all over the world

@nova igloo if ur ever bored

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMm0HsmOTFI

Good documentary

Its about the history of free & opensource software

and linux

[nova igloo]

Oh Linus

the eipc one, *** you Nvidia

[tame carbon]

oh and the first guy in the documentary

Thats Richard Stallman

xD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman

probably seems familair

he's the god behind open source

he started the movement, and founded GNU

@nova igloo don't be alarmed by the young voice of the narrator, its a swede trying to speak english xD

[nova igloo]

Whats GNU

🤔

[tame carbon]

GNU's Not Unix

[nova igloo]

What it do

[tame carbon]

its a recursive acronym

At the time when computing first began

everyone used UNIX

GNU was like unix, in that it followed the same architectural principles

that everything is a file

its is why theres virtual filesystems for things like devices

[nova igloo]

dont now adays every computer run on UNIX

[tame carbon]

like your first harddrive is always /dev/sda

/dev is devices

those files, are really just programs

that talk to the driver internally

but this is all handled by the kernel

[nova igloo]

its too deep

[tame carbon]

no

like

[nova igloo]

i cant understand

[tame carbon]

you know what a harddrive really is?

its just

a big list of addresses that store data

starts at 0x0

[nova igloo]

yeah

[tame carbon]

and then some datablob size

I think memory is stored in pages by the operating system, these are 4K

thats physical memory

[nova igloo]

so so complicated

[tame carbon]

yeah

so there's special circuitry on the CPU

that the OS can use to access memory and share it between programs

all those OS features are programmed very near the hardware

but you as a user

dont have to care about that

just know that the kernel will do it for you

so things like RGB controllers are usually somewhere on some i2c bus /sys/

https://i.imgur.com/JFLxwfk.png

usually if there's a driver for something like this

there's programs that can use to control those devices with

like with the Corsair RGB keyboards

works just fine

[nova igloo]

How the computer create these file system, its so intelligent

[tame carbon]

just the control software that corsair gives you wont work

@nova igloo so linux has a DM

device mapper

this is a kind of 'program' that sits at the heart of the filesystem driver

https://www.thomas-krenn.com/de/wikiDE/images/2/2d/Linux-storage-stack-diagram_v4.0.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/3yHCdaJ.png

we only care about this top bit

[nova igloo]

Any books or source i can learn computers from Sand to HTML/Python

[tame carbon]

look in the VFS

thats Virtual Filesystems

see, there's where all the drivers for the different filesystems are

[nova igloo]

i believe thats a huge journey

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo yeah but using it is so easy

you can configure your partitions in /etc/fstab

thats a config file

you can mount /media/myexternaldrive /dev/sdb1

mounts the filesystem to a directory

so you can access the files on the drive

so your pr0n would be in /etc/myexternaldrive/naughty.mp4

[nova igloo]

I thought Machine Language is deep anough to create computer

but im absolutely wrong

[tame carbon]

linux has many many small componts that do things

their philosophy is make it one thing, and one task only, but make it very good at its task

[nova igloo]

well even a simple ping command have tons of backbones

[tame carbon]

yeah

so ping uses network stack

erm the network stack is quite complicated

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Linux_kernel_map.png

this is another view of the kernel is built up

the programs you use, sit all the way at the top

so the actual interfaces you see, and you click on, are just those programs at the very top, that tell something in the layer below, to do something like make this pixel go this color

user space interfaces are just "buttons" your program can do, if it needs to operating system to do something

like open a file

or send data over the network

you can also ask for the kernel to wait for a request for data to come in, like for example a webserver

then the kernel interrupts your main code execution, and runs a special subroutine to handle the incoming request

this is called an Interrupt

[peak cloak]

linux is nice, just it lacks in the desktop enviroment

[tame carbon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt

user input

like keyboards

and mouse

is all handled by interrupts

there's both hardware interrupts and software interrupts

timers, anything that has to wait for something else, is interrupts

[nova igloo]

How Assembly Language were created

the computer wont know how to send signal to the display

[tame carbon]

well

all of this is done in layers

so theres PCI express to talk to devices over a copper bus

[nova igloo]

My IQ is dropping

from 0 to negative

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo you know how many transistors there are in a CPU ?

[nova igloo]

n+1

[tame carbon]

some of the largest cpus can have billions of transistors

@nova igloo most of the time, what the CPU does

is move data from memory to some device

or read from some device or locaiton in memory and put it somewhere else

the operating system, actually tells the CPU to execute those things

[nova igloo]

Not calculating?

[tame carbon]

yeah the very low level stuff

its just adding and subtracting values from one another

once you can multiply

you can anything

multiplying is just glorified addition

its binary

the way, we implement things like decimals

I'm saying we as in

we humans, who have made this thing

its public domain

we have developed standards, for storing things like decimals

so numbers with a 10,0

https://i.imgur.com/RroNPTy.png

[nova igloo]

Masters learn such stuffs?

or i will learn those in Degree

i dont think so

[tame carbon]

Yeah I'm software engineer lol

and having done some hardware programming too

programmed software for arm microcontrollers

[nova igloo]

Yeah i mean at what education level i will learn this stuff

[tame carbon]

its similair to arduino, but faster

Bachelor?

[nova igloo]

Dont Degree = Bachelor

[tame carbon]

its a degree

yes

[nova igloo]

Im going to learn Assembly too?

well i think yes , my senior said x86

[tame carbon]

I know how assembly works, but thats not because of school

I just geeked out over this

You don't need to learn assembly

thats what we have compilers for

[nova igloo]

well but the school wanted us to

[tame carbon]

damn

thats some low level shit

[nova igloo]

well its a good thing

[tame carbon]

these boards are a lot of fun to use

https://opencircuit.shop/resources/content/4def6e580bad7/crop/400-300/STM32-ARM-development-board-STM32F103C8T6.webp

holy crap discord can you stop SUCKING?!

[nova igloo]

images not loading right

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/NSE3YFu.png

there

copy paste

ffs

[hollow marlin]

Yeah all images are showing up as a sad crap for me lol

[nova igloo]

Something like Arduino

ASP32

[tame carbon]

STM32

those are arm processors

[peak cloak]

oh cool, I want to build a model rocket launch pad that uses an arduino because that's what I have

[nova igloo]

Yeah i think u can

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak these things lot cheaper

$5

[nova igloo]

5$???

[peak cloak]

vscode PlatformIO is nice

[nova igloo]

Linux Kernel vs Assembly, which is lower level?

[tame carbon]

linux is written in C

[nova igloo]

okay cool

[tame carbon]

its compiled down to assembly

[nova igloo]

so it means i will know how computers works inside out soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AwdkGKmZ0I

ARM-based Mac

wooho

[peak cloak]

yeah, we knew that for a while

[nova igloo]

i mean official announce

not leaks

[tame carbon]

get this apple propaganda out of here

[peak cloak]

didn't they announce it a couple events back

[nova igloo]

M1 nice name

[tame carbon]

I look away for 1 second

[peak cloak]

Apple Silicon

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak https://i.imgur.com/ysChlgO.png

[nova igloo]

well i dont like apple eco system

but their deisn and tweaking is perfect

everything so efficient

[peak cloak]

yeah, that's one thing they do so well

[nova igloo]

lol sarcasm XD

nice one

lol Hardware based encryption

dont most SSD doing this long time ago

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak check that image

if you ever think about arduino vs stm32

[peak cloak]

yeah, it looks nice

[tame carbon]

the blue pill is arduino compatible

[peak cloak]

but I already have arduino's

[tame carbon]

you can get the arduino standard lib to work on those too

yeah but

they are more powerful :)

[peak cloak]

if I need a faster processer I will look into it

like for a rocket guidance system

have you heard of bps space?

[tame carbon]

I run out of memory on those things too fast

nope

@peak cloak smallest controller I've ever used

as the attiny

[peak cloak]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCILl8ozWuxnFYXIe2svjHhg

[tame carbon]

https://potentiallabs.com/cart/image/cache/attiny 85-800x800.jpg

[nova igloo]

Are designing a architecture hard?

[peak cloak]

model rocket thrust vectoring and he's trying to land a rocket spacex style

using solid motors

[nova igloo]

like ARM x86 Atmel...

[tame carbon]

wat

arm, x86 and avr (atmel) are all their own architectures

but the language, C, works on all of them

[peak cloak]

oh wow that is tiny

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak the specs are

out of this world

It has a whopping

512 bytes of memory

has SPI and i2c

what more do you need

doubt you'll be able to bundle any kind of driver with that

@peak cloak benefit of things like stm32 are that it has multiple serial lines

and just, more IO in general

[peak cloak]

for the launch pad all what I would want is ethernet, and like 5-6 digital outputs

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak you can use SPI for that

[peak cloak]

yeah I worked with spi before

I have 2 arduino Mega's to work with

[tame carbon]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71oBmjUBNXL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

look for ENC28J60

you can get tiny breakout boards that use SPI

[peak cloak]

oh cool

[tame carbon]

https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/en022889

Datasheet ^

[peak cloak]

I already have an ethernet shield though

[tame carbon]

10Base-T

[peak cloak]

from prior projects

[tame carbon]

well, the more you know :)

@peak cloak lol

the best part about that network controller

it has 8KB ram

lol

Programmable Automatic Retransmit on Collision

this is nice

so you dont have to rely so much on software solutions for TCP retransmits

@peak cloak https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF24-series

seen this before?

[peak cloak]

nope

[tame carbon]

https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/nRF24L01_prelim_prod_spec_1_2.pdf

look on the first page

its a wireless protocol standard

uses the 2.4GHz ISM band

it has like 100+ channels

and you can get like 1-2mbit/s per channel

you can use this for DIY home automation if you need mesh or something similair

I got a whole bag of these things lol

[peak cloak]

oh cool, how does security work though? Is it like wifi with SSID and passphrase

[tame carbon]

its open broadcasting

but you can do encryption

you just broadcast with an BSID

aka your radio address

and there's channels you can select to transmit or receive on

void setup() {
  radio.begin();
  radio.openWritingPipe(address);
  radio.setPALevel(RF24_PA_MIN);
  radio.stopListening();
}

void loop() {
  const char text[] = "Hello World";
  radio.write(&text, sizeof(text));
  delay(1000);
}

@peak cloak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTEA

This is what I was taught to use for encryption on those NRF24L's

simple block cypher

requires minimal amount of code

key exchange is a slightly different issue

My worst nightmare: https://youtu.be/_BcYBFC6zfY?t=25

[peak cloak]

oh no

[tame carbon]

I think this might be the most corporate mainstream movie ever

its even worse than Pixels

Disney is now also kaput

well, they were always bad, ruining the public domain

[chilly shoal]

@tame carbon

[waxen scroll]

[glass rivet]

what should i turn my old server into? im thinking a NAS

[nova igloo]

SAN ;D

[glass rivet]

0_0

no

[candid haven]

guys i started using expressvpn a few days ago, for netflix mostly, but i want to take less of a loss on my connection speed, i have fibre internet and 1gig connection, im using the vpn software on w10 without any modification to my router or anything, is there a way to improve the connection?

[jaunty talon]

For those who work with network and servers and use nmap sometimes, rustscan (https://github.com/RustScan/RustScan) is your new goto tool! :)

[candid haven]

ill have a look, thanks

[tame carbon]

@candid haven doubt there's a VPN service that will allow you to do 1g tunnelling

you could set up a site 2 site vpn on a vps in the cloud

[candid haven]

lol im not gunning for 1 gig vpn, just something above 50mbps

[jaunty talon]

@candid haven https://www.scaleway.com/en/stardust-instances/?utm_expid=.L6eryvUJQty2k4zsmAweKg.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

There you have a cheap VPS with 100mbps unlimited bandwidth, ipv4+ipv6

perfect for VPN! :)

I use one myself as a wireguard vpn-endpoint

it's like 3eur a month :D

[tame carbon]

I got 250M L2TP tunelling over here

but I don't use a third party for this

Its more so that I can access my LAN when abroad

[nova igloo]

Get a VPS which with 1G network, and build ur own

[tame carbon]

so we've said

[nova igloo]

ah, i see. Miss reading that hehe

[unborn sluice]

so we've said

[nova igloo]

so we've said

[tame carbon]

?

[nova igloo]

Crystal how ur company protect the clients servers from DDoS

since they are hosted i ur company's server room

[gray ingot]

Has anyone terminated ethernet? I'm trying to figure out why my terminated cat6 is 100mbps while one from a box is 1gig on the same machine. Does anyone know what cable in the crimp could be causing that? I'd like to know so I can terminate better in the future.

[peak cloak]

what is the auto-negotiation?

@gray ingot are you on windows?

[gray ingot]

It's a streaming server we built running windows 10 and obs

[peak cloak]

what's the speed here

you could have missed a pair or something, do you have a cable tester?

[gray ingot]

I'll look in a minute. I'm soldering but my boss said the switch said 100mbps and when he replaced it it was 1gb

I have a cable tester. That's the crazy part

[peak cloak]

it shows all the pairs are good?

[gray ingot]

We bought a batch of bad crimps and I think its messing with it. All pairs appeared to be good

[tame carbon]

soldering... ethernet wire?

wtf are you doing

[ebon sierra]

I have 1gbs and my sent and recieveds are muich higher

[gray ingot]

Lmao soldering xlrs

[ebon sierra]

i dont understand networking

[peak cloak]

or, what's the link status on the switch

make sure it's 1000M

[tame carbon]

1000M just requires you to have 4 pairs

[peak cloak]

yep

[tame carbon]

you need 2 pairs for 100M

if your 4 pairs are bad, or too long, it will downgrade to 100M

or die trying

[gray ingot]

Mhmm I think something isn't crimped right on the machines and vs the switch end.

[peak cloak]

his speed of 100M is suspicious because it's the boundary

[tame carbon]

if a cable isnt doing 1G, cut off the end and reterminate

or make sure your interfaces can do gigabit

before you start cutting stuff up

[nova igloo]

bad quality wire?

[tame carbon]

I have thrown away ethernet cables because they would only do 100M

bad ethernet cables are certainly a thing

[gray ingot]

It does a gig but with another cable. We use good cable. I'll take a pic of the box

[tame carbon]

cat6 is fine for 1G

cat5e is for people who cheap out

cat7 should be used for permanent wiring in a building

like socket outlets

cat7 has some extra shielding against electrical noise

and so does cat6a

[gray ingot]

I think it's the shitty connectors. I did run into some missing pins. I'll let my boss know. I also think we're replacing all the data center cables with 6a down the road because of fiber or something. I don't understand I just make the cables. Lmao

[tame carbon]

@gray ingot if you buy shielded cables, make sure you buy shielded RJ45 jacks

not ones made of plastic

[gray ingot]

Mmm we're using ones that have like.. sleds? The cables go into the sled, flush cut to the sled, then slid into the connector and crimped.

[tame carbon]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/noRk8jYAbSg/maxresdefault.jpg

I got one of these