networking

[clear igloo]

Yah, 7 should hopefully do away with that but you never know these days

[thick minnow]

just bump the damned number. You afraid of scaring people off by selling wifi 25 routers supporting wifi 5 clients?

[clear igloo]

haha, exactly

[thick minnow]

and maybe cool the pace somewhat. Nobody will want to upgrade to a new wifi 6e router, if you go around telling people wifi 7 is just around the corner. I mean, What if they just wait?!?

[clear igloo]

We need 30Gbps over wifi man!!

Looking at the roadmap though it seems after 7 drops it will cool down and 8 isn't slated for ratification until 2028 or later

[prime summit]

I have 1gbps but wanting to upgrade to 2gbps

Currently have an orbi rbr50 with two satellites

[thick minnow]

NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-Band WiFi 7 Router (RS700S) - BE19000 Wireless Speed (Up to 19Gbps) - Coverage up to 3,500 sq. ft., 200 Devices - 10 Gig Internet Port – 1-Year Armor Subscription Included https://a.co/d/9gMRtIk

19 Gbps peak throughput on all frequencies (not per client) but still it may keep up with a 2 Gbps uplink

But at $700 it ought to provide back rubs too - sheesh

[prime summit]

I need mesh for coverage

[thick minnow]

WiFi 7 range is actually far greater than, so read up, maybe you don’t

[mystic latch]

Could do a proper prosumer network setup for that much with almost certainly better coverage. Though not Wifi 7

[thick minnow]

https://www.eero.com/?gclid= erro does mesh WiFi 7

DuckDuckGo FTW

[mild pelican]

https://www.target.com/p/x9-performance-rgb-backlit-mechanical-usb-keyboard-for-pc/-/A-86102033#lnk=sametab wtf were they thinking with the media keys

the media keys would make the space bar hard to use

oops wrong chat

[wintry pike]

If I have a firepower/sf, i should place them behind asr/isr to mitigate arp poisoning is, what I understand?

[thorn karma]

I'm debating on getting a Gaming router for a lower latency in game such as valorant
The use of it would mostly be Ethernet , and not wifi, i dont use wifi on my deskstop ,only for mobile at the moment , and i would like to know if they make such a big difference over the regular ips router on ethernet speeds and latency
Im looking at MSI Radix axe6600(350$) and ax6600 (160$) , and also the Asus rog GT ax6000(230$) and the AXpro11000(410$) , i saw they have gaming features to reduce latency , but im not so sure how they works if they are paid features or included , if its worth spending that much if it doesnt have that much impact for my use

I mainly stream and play competitively ranked and esport , mostly valorant for now , i mostly have 2 devices connected to my internet , my pc and phone , i also have a TV modem im not really using at the moment

[peak cloak]

Gaming router is waste of money

a cheap 60 dollar router such as a mtik and ethernet will get you basically everything

[thorn karma]

Fair enough, why would you argue for that reason?

[thorn karma]

I see, that's fair enough

[peak cloak]

gaming is just marketing and there's nothing really that special about them

[thorn karma]

do you have a recommendation for a router?
just need one for ethernet tbh

[peak cloak]

at home I use an ER605

[thorn karma]

fair, what about the low ping/latency provided, that's the only thing I kept about it, cus I don't really care if it's a gaming router and rgb, just the low latency and faster connection to game servers

[peak cloak]

what's wrong with current router?

[thorn karma]

thank you

[peak cloak]

low latency and faster connection to game servers
a router contributes next to nothing latency wise

and routing is out of your control, that's on the ISPs end

[thorn karma]

I think I have a little issue with ethernet and the latency with the servers 🤔

[thorn karma]

oh, fair, thank you 🤔

[peak cloak]

if current router with ethernet has issues I doubt a new router will help

[thorn karma]

I get it now, thank you for sharing your knowledge

[thorn karma]

I mean, it's not that big of an issue, I'm at like 90-95% of the rated speed by ethernet

it would just be a latency more about

but as you said it's on the ips end

which is understandable

[peak cloak]

if you really want to check you can plug into modem directly

bypass router and see what happens

[thorn karma]

🤔

well I'm plugged by ethernet, direction to my internet provider modem, I just feel like the in game ping could be lower

but you made your point which is arguably right, so I understand why now

[peak cloak]

it's probobly an all-in-one router/modem combo

[thorn karma]

thank you for your help, helps a lot

[thorn karma]

think so, yeah

[peak cloak]

yeah adding another router would create more issues if anything

unless the ISP eqipment is really bad

[thorn karma]

understandable and logic

[thorn karma]

it's decent, tbh it works correctly and is fine on its own

my older one, from my previous isp provider was worst, but this one is decent

[peak cloak]

then maybe putting it into bypass mode and adding another would maybe help, but most of the time it will just be a waste of money

[thorn karma]

so I'mma stick to it, and see how it goes on the long term

[peak cloak]

yeah there is no need to change anything

[thorn karma]

thx

want to give you a big hug

[wintry pike]

I'm getting a tik

[pseudo blade]

Tiny 'Tik or Big 'Tik?

[rocky badge]

@peak cloak @hollow marlin Preparing stuff for new apartment network

Too lazy to do VLANs for it

[clear igloo]

why put it behind instead of in front of the WAN?

[wintry pike]

Others said it'll go through a vrrp (due to LB/VIP) and most ISPs don't honor ARP requests of that sort

[opal pagoda]

Needs DMZ

[rocky badge]

I'm too lazy

idc either way xd

nothing is exposed to the web

[mystic latch]

So I set up a wireguard tunnel between opnsense and my phone, along with a mullvad tunnel on opnsense, with the intent on accessing homelab when away from home and also using said mullvad tunnel for general internet traffic. I did up the rules to allow my phone to access my server in my dmz vlan. However, and this is the part that confuses me, when I create a rule on the phone wg interface and set the destination to my dmz vlan, traffic gets routed out my mullvad tunnel and doesn't go directly to dmz. If I set the destination to any it routes how I want it to internally.

Any ideas as to why setting allow dest to dmz would make it go out mullvad?

[rocky badge]

Time to play around with instant on!

[clever moat]

Where I can enable ipv6 in my router or how to add ipv6 wan ?

[peak cloak]

ISP needs to support it

as well as router

[clever moat]

And is in my abilities to check it ? When I go to any web it uses IPv6 from now on and i didn’t enable anything

[peak cloak]

if you are using v6, then it supports it

[clever moat]

Why it doesn’t have any wan connection though

[peak cloak]

wdym

[clever moat]

IPv6 wan and LAN is empty

[peak cloak]

just to confirm when you do something like ping 2001:4860:4860::8888 it works?

[clever moat]

Do I need to use it on computer ? Currently on phone… any online way ?

[peak cloak]

no, unless you're on android you can use termux

if you're on phone you could be getting v6 through celluar provider

[clever moat]

This is some online ping test

[clever moat]

I have cellular disabled

[peak cloak]

yeah no that doesn't help

that uses their servers to ping

[clever moat]

I thought so, I noticed on some pages with ip it started showing me some IPv6 addresses and from then on i noticed I have IPv6 access

I tested on some IPv6 test page

[peak cloak]

could be some weird router GUI bug with how it handles PPPoE

[clever moat]

I noticed I have exactly same ipv4 and IPv6 no matter if I have only cellular or only Wi-Fi which look glitchy

[clever moat]

So it might have the IPv6 connection just it doesn’t show any ?

[peak cloak]

yes

[clever moat]

Firmware update might be a possible solution if there is one

I tried rebooting which didn’t help so I will try look for the firmware

Nah not even a firmware upgrade

Nvm might be some glitch tho IPv6 has all ports and etc. open right ?

[cosmic steeple]

if i want to learn how to build and run a home 2 gig in basement rack. 3 story house. what course should i learn and what gear should i get 5k budget Christmas's gift

[devout pebble]

hi there i a ma having this problem just a few second ago where the etherenet/lan just randomly not working i've tried replugging and unplugging it and ir still doesn't work it was fine working for a week now and it just gone i used diagnostic its not plugged in properly or might be broken and i already tried multiple different cables and still no fix

[pseudo blade]

#1027757333117415424

[devout pebble]

Ok

[pseudo blade]

What course? I'd say it depends on what you'd like to do later. Everyone seems to want to hire Cisco certified though.
Gear... I'd say on that budget you'd be spending a chunk on getting proper wiring done for roof-mounted APs and ethernet ports and then put WiFi 6e in everywhere. Expecting a homelab in that budget or just a nice router, APs and fast internet everywhere?

[cosmic steeple]

Fast, Internet everywhere currently running axe1000 +ap

[cosmic steeple]

I would say remotely control, all my computers block off websites for the teen. Admin work to make sure I know how to troubleshoot stability.

[mystic latch]

That's a few different domains. sysadmin + net admin mostly

[peak cloak]

all my computers block off websites for the teen
like filtering? that basically impossible unless you are able to control every computer itself

[mystic latch]

Mostly dependent on said teen's drive to find work-arounds. The main thing that'd be hard to deal with is DoH. Can block lookups to the most popular ones.

But a VPN makes all that moot

[cosmic steeple]

I am able to dominate whatever happens on the computer and the teen is not computer literate.

[hollow marlin]

You sound like an excellent parent. I'd suggest diverting that time to the kid and actually teaching them to be literate.

[cosmic steeple]

I’m not a parent it’s for my home systems and my 11-year-old brother. Protection against malware and other sites. I could never get them to read he’s kind of a person that shuts down. When I was in school, I had an entire class that taught me computer stuff but they don’t have that for his generation.

[rocky badge]

@clear igloo I wonder if I can trust my dad to swap out optics

[clear igloo]

Ummmm, that's a tough question, lol

[rocky badge]

He installed the APC network card

[clear igloo]

Well then that might not be bad

[rocky badge]

and he can follow instructions

[clear igloo]

that's key, haha
10g optics or 1g?

Provided he can get the lever release it shouldn't be an issue

[rocky badge]

10g

https://www.fs.com/products/11555.html
https://www.fs.com/products/40192.html?attribute=713&id=1787039

[clear igloo]

oh fs optics, those are simple to fiddle with 😄

[rocky badge]

Yeah

and its not gonna be like Jake & Linus cringing at the LC coupler

[clear igloo]

first party cisco 10g are a pita sometimes as the release lever can get stuck, I usually have a second 10g optic I use to pop the lever open if that makes snese

[rocky badge]

oh yeah I have those

I wish I ran SMF to my room instead of MMF

but its not hard to pull more

[clear igloo]

lol, only 400g limit 😦

[rocky badge]

What if I just pull MPO

[clear igloo]

go single mode if you do MPO like a madman

Honestly most SM optics are LC

[rocky badge]

https://www.fs.com/products/107945.html?attribute=6161&id=109592

[clear igloo]

I would only do MPO if you go multimode, single mode is LC for the most part

[rocky badge]

https://www.fs.com/products/57037.html

[clear igloo]

or do that, lol

[rocky badge]

https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/opticalcon-mtp

We are probably doing this for work

[clear igloo]

Video?

[rocky badge]

Mainly IP

but I wanna carry 2x IP connections and then we can have whatever else

@clear igloo Geez

why are sfp-10g-lr modules on ebay more expensive than buying new from fs

[clear igloo]

because, logic and not everyone knows fs maybe?

[rocky badge]

or if they are cheap they come from China

[rocky badge]

@clear igloo AWS will charge for all ipv4

[clear igloo]

rip

I mean it makes sense but still that's going to be rough

[mystic latch]

adguard home has a parental blocking thing and malware blocking built-in. Would have to force all dns in the network to use it, which needs a non-basic router OS like pfsense or opnsense

It can also enforce safe search in these search engines

[opal pagoda]

duplex yes, simplex ones are often sc

[fervent brook]

https://www.newegg.com/wavlink-531mx3-802-11ax-ac-n-a/p/0E6-009X-00041

Is there anything obviously wrong with this?

[hollow marlin]

SM BiDi that use SC are aging out. Most are LC nowadays

[twin sphinx]

Recommendations for the best external WOL platform? I have one of the simple tools for the internal network at home but I need something I can use remote

[peak cloak]

What you need is a local server, can be as simple as another computer or pi on your local network connected to the Internet to send the magic packet

[pseudo blade]

This looks interesting: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs310_8g_2s_in

2.5 gigabit, SFP+, USB, L3 offload, enough CPU for gigabit NAT...

I think the price is a tad high for just using it as a switch but I can see some cool ways you could use it in niche scenarios

[keen urchin]

hooray! 10gig

[keen urchin]

ikr?!

[fervent brook]

lol, i did support chat with linksys to find a copy of a router firmware because it wasn't on the site and the guy said "it's not on the site". Oh, thanks

[hollow axle]

STH didn't like that https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs310-8g-2s-in-review-8-port-2-5gbe-and-2-port-10gbe-switch/2/

[strong sky]

I have a question regarding running an ethernet cable between adjacent rooms. It is possible for me to get a short CAT 6 ethernet cable, cut off the male ends, shorten the cable and connect it between two RJ 45 keystones so that I can run it through a wall rather than fishing it behind the wall? I have no need for hundreds of feet of cable

[thick minnow]

You may be surprised to learn a number of off-the-shelf ethernet wall plates use rj45 connections on the back, for the cable coming from the wall.

[strong sky]

Im assuming you mean something like this?

So I would essentially need a coupler? @thick minnow

[fervent brook]

or just punch two holes in the wall and throw the cable through

[strong sky]

Eh I know I could do that but I like to keep everything looking tidy

[pseudo blade]

That doesn't strike me as negative at all. It's not a router and has very specific limitations.

I guess the last page does suggest they should switch to more price-competitive parts for what it offers as a switch but that's not contrary to what I said

The deal is that you're buying this (but it's 2 CPU cores)

There are MUCH cheaper gigabit ARM routers.

There are cheaper 2.5 gig switches

I don't know of much with L3 offload, gigabit routing with USB, 2.5gbe switching in that form factor as one unit.

I think the big killer is this though

No NAT offload is a huge bummer because that means the 1.3gbps link to the CPU must handle it all

Oh I just noticed it's actually in the matrix already and looking at it by switch chip was unnecessary lol

[hollow axle]

Yeah, if you ONLY use it as a switch or as a media converter, it's fine

[thick minnow]

the outlet IS a coupler. So you plug a cable into the back, and mount it. The user plugs their computer into the front.

[knotty plover]

If that 6 means WiFi 6, then my phone is using WiFi 5, does it mean my phone doesn't support WiFi 6?

[keen urchin]

or you could just look up the specs of your phone

[knotty plover]

yes, it's Wi-Fi 5 Max 400Mb/s

however on local network file moving it barely goes over 200Mb/s next to the router

[clear igloo]

That's about right for WiFi 5

Your phone likely has a 1x1 antenna so that makes sense it's only reporting a max of 433Mbps

Or your router only supports 1x1 but if it supports WiFi 6 then that's less likely

[worn viper]

How bad is using port forwarding for wol

[rough moat]

just curious if anyone has ever been able to make Wireless Wake On Lan work?

[hollow axle]

Nope, it's useless unless you are the OEM like apple

And that isn't "WOL"

[livid aspen]

It seems like the home grade routers are mostly trash. Like missing basic functions.

[opal pagoda]

Flash openwrt on it and get those basic features back and then some more

[livid aspen]

I think that’s a little above my mom’s ability to use.

[pseudo blade]

Security or actually getting it to work:
For security... How bad is anyone knowing your MAC and IP being able to turn your computer on? It's precisely that bad or not bad.
As far as getting it to actually work: Go have a look at the Wikipedia page for Wake-on-LAN and you'll see a nice list of pitfalls and how to deal with several of them.

It's usually just less annoying to have an always-on host on the network to handle it for you.

[knotty plover]

Thoughts on this?
5G Indoor CPE ZLT X28

I would be using 4G

[hollow axle]

"5G"

[opal pagoda]

i would rather have one of these
https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ax3
https://mikrotik.com/product/l009uigs_2haxd_in
https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ax2

[pseudo blade]

Be wary on the L009 if integrated high-performance WiFi is an expectation, it has 2.4ghz only, though WiFi 6.

But yeah consumer-grade routers: can't go back to them

And the L009's pretty cool as something with SFP, gigabit ethernet, decent routing and WiFi for cheap

RB4011 needs a worthy SFP+WiFi successor

[thick minnow]

Is sfp generally just kinda plug and play like ethernet or is there a lot of nuance to it

[drowsy fossil]

its slightly more annoying since theres often vendor locks, but as long as you avoid the brands that do vendor locking you should be good

[thick minnow]

So like vendor locking to what extent/end?

[drowsy fossil]

cisco switches will only accept cisco sfp modules

but mikrotik devices will accept whatever

for example

[thick minnow]

So if I just get like any old generic sfp device they should accept any other sfp transceiver

[drowsy fossil]

generic 🤨
but yes

[thick minnow]

Well I just meant like any other sfp card/switch but looking on Amazon there appears to be a market of like generic brand 2.5/10gb switches

[drowsy fossil]

yea those are unlikely to lock stuff
there are special sfp modules, and an sfp+ module has a good chance of not working in a sfp device

but a 1 gig module in a 1 gig port should be fine

and a 1 gig module in a 10 gig port too

[thick minnow]

Do direct attach cables have any limits either?

[drowsy fossil]

same story as above, but generic switches shouldnt be vendor locked

[thick minnow]

Thank you for the help 🙏

[opal pagoda]

they will work but they are fussy abt it

# no errdisable detect cause gbic-invalid```

idk if that command is avalibile on every ios device

[pseudo blade]

Can't be taking Cisco's tasty, tasty markup without at least a bit of a fight

[hollow axle]

It's not that bad

Once you buy enough Cisco, it gets cheaper than generic sometimes, we get 66.7% off and Cisco DAC cables are cheaper than generic.. also, Cisco FC optics actually work in netapp/qlogic too so give them some credit

[opal pagoda]

yea
i belive we pay around 1/3 of msrp

[fervent brook]

hey guys! I found a router that is compatible with Alexa and Google!

[rocky badge]

@clear igloo

[clear igloo]

get that latency lower!

[slate dust]

This room only for discussing network hardware?

[slate dust]

Right then.

Suggestions on who to talk to or where I could go to get help on making this all work together? Modem -> Switch -> Router / Server / Server

[slate dust]

I am stuck on IP addresses and subnetting.

I know that there are default subnet addresses and classless subnet addresses.

Can I set one set of devices on IP 10.1.1.25 with the subnet 255.224.0.0 and the same IP with 10.1.1.25 on subnet 255.255.255.0 on a different device?

How do I set it up so that all of one type of device, say security camera's, are on one network but can't see each other or other users?

I am so lost 😦

[mystic latch]

Start at the bottom. Why do modem -> switch and not modem -> router?

[slate dust]

My house is odd atm. I have ISP Modem -> router -> extender -> Switch and from the switch, Router 2, Server, Server & RaspberryPi.

The goal is to statically assign an IP address to each and every physical device in my home, including all mobile devices.

[peak cloak]

That requires more specialized hardware that can do client isolation

[peak cloak]

Why, static IPs are pain

[slate dust]

To learn. I want to get into IT from my current position.

The Switch is a Lenovo CEO128TB Layer-3 Managed Switch.

[peak cloak]

Well that won't really help, no one would assign IPs all statically in industry

To client devices

[slate dust]

But learning how to do it will help.

[mystic latch]

So preventing intra-VLAN communication can be done at your router, but it's dependent on what router OS you're using.

[slate dust]

and I like the control.

[peak cloak]

Well intersubnet can be done at router level

Not within L2 domain

[slate dust]

I appreciate ya'lls input. Thank you. I have spent the last 2ish weeks learning about CIDR and reading RFC documents but am still overwhelmed.

[peak cloak]

You want all devices on the L2 domain to have the same subnet mask

[slate dust]

and watching youtube videos and they tell you how to do some of the things but not how to do the practical things.

[peak cloak]

Yeah that comes with experimenting, I learnt everything myself

[slate dust]

Awesome! That's what I'm trying to do 😉

[peak cloak]

I would look into vlans and seperate subnets if you want control

Would not advise doing all statics

[slate dust]

Aren't static IPs attached directly to a device MAC address the most secure inside a private network?

[peak cloak]

What you can do are static DHCP lease, so a devices has the same ip

[peak cloak]

Wdym?

[slate dust]

To prevent hackers, snoopers etc.

[peak cloak]

No, statically assigning won't do anything to stop a MITM

that's done at higher levels with encryption

[mystic latch]

Hackers & snoopers have to get on your network in the first place. That's most likely gonna be via a sketchy download.

Gotta think realistically about your threat model. People aren't gonna get in your network from the internet at large just because they feel like it.

[slate dust]

I do plan on running a game server or 2.

and a Jellyfin & Music server as well.

[mystic latch]

Can create a dedicated vlan just for said server and set up rules to prevent someone from getting anywhere else.

[slate dust]

We also host lots of people sometimes so I need to be able to have 2 different guest networks.

[peak cloak]

Why 2? I get having a separate guest one

[slate dust]

Guest Friends & Family (elevated), Guests Randoms (dumb)

We host various gaming tournaments and have 20+ people here sometimes.

D&D, Magic the Gathering, Warhammer, etc...

[peak cloak]

Makes more sense, but that is only worthwhile if you have different firewall rules for each subnet

[slate dust]

Oh! Plan on incorporating a firewall.

at some point, I think?

[peak cloak]

Well basically every router has firewall functions and that would make sense

That's what I did,

[slate dust]

I have everything mapped out in a spread sheet, I have all the ports and devices labeled.

[peak cloak]

Because you need filter where it routes between vlans

[slate dust]

I need to now figure out how to give everything an IP address and then how to make it so some can see into some but not others, still yet be able to force some traffic through a VPN or the Pi-Hole but make both optional on some devices.

[peak cloak]

Could also just get a firewall device as those are basically routers with good filtering controls

[peak cloak]

Yes, so I would just do DHCP and vlans

[slate dust]

Networks: Management, Pi-Hole, VPN, Security Cameras, Home Users, Work, TVs, Guest Net1, Guest Net2, Media Server, Game Servers, Steam Backup, Files Backup and a General Files Storage server.

[peak cloak]

Also keep in mind that all this can be a pita sometimes, which is why I keep my network simple

And do network experimenting separate

[slate dust]

Ha! This is the separate network.

I have 2 ISPs right now.

This one is specifically to learn on and how to build and set all this up.

[mystic latch]

Trying to give static leases for everything will just cause headaches, especially for guests. Android & iOS do MAC randomization, I think windows does it by default now too?

Nvm, looks like one has to enable it for windows

[slate dust]

Still, mac randomization makes things more difficult for static huh.

[mystic latch]

It can be disabled, but that's a device by device thing

[slate dust]

I do need some devices to be static, such as the media and games servers.

I am absolutely grateful for ya'lls in put. Thank you. 😉

I have everything mapped out in a spread sheet and ready to go, things just need actual addresses heh

[peak cloak]

That's where static DHCP leases come in

[mystic latch]

Yea, I do static leases for my personal stuff, but don't expect to be able to do it for visitors

[peak cloak]

Yeah I only do static leases for stuff like printers and server

[slate dust]

For instance, is it possible to put say the VPN on its own IP address but make it so that the Acquisitions and Media server always have to use the VPN but home users don't?

[peak cloak]

Everything else including personal is dynamic DHCP

[peak cloak]

Yes, put in separate server vlan/subnet

In router setup the VPN

[mystic latch]

What router OS are you using?

[peak cloak]

Set gateway next hop to VPN interface

That's the gist, actual implementation varies

[slate dust]

My original question, can I put VPN on 10.1.1.25 255.224.0.0 and the cameras on IP with 10.1.1.25 on subnet 255.255.255.0?

[peak cloak]

I forget subneting specifics but I think you are going too deep. What you want are seperate L2 domains

So 2 seperate vlans, and just do a /24

[slate dust]

Ah see, that's the thing, I don't just want it to work, i want to know the how and why of it.

[peak cloak]

Actually rereading the question, yeah no

You can't have 2 devices with same IP

[slate dust]

What happens when two departments merge or 2 companies? and they have the same ip addressing scheme? can they just change up the subnets?

Company A has 10.1.1.25 255.224.0.0 and COmpany B has 10.1.1.25 255.255.255.0

Company C buys them. What do?

[mystic latch]

Has to be deconflicted

[slate dust]

Each company has 1000s of devices on thos IP ranges.

The separate subnets should be 2 different networks yeah? think, street level and basement level?

Same place, different height?

[peak cloak]

Also fyi if you something like 10.1.1.25 255.255.255.0 like you said before it's actually 10.1.1.X meaning x can be anything

Which is why I like CIDR notation more

[mystic latch]

Really depends if they're sharing a router or not. If they are, then pretty sure the network guys are gonna be mighty busy

[slate dust]

Busy how?

[peak cloak]

Well not anything but first bit 0 is network address, and last which would be 255 is broadcast address. Everything else is free game.

[slate dust]

😉

Essentially, I could put each network on it's own class A and be done with it yeah? Network 1 = 10.1.1.0, Network 2, 11.1.1.0, Network 3, 12.1.1.0, etc..

[mystic latch]

I mean like gone into before, 1 IP = 1 MAC address. So if there's some shared IP space then it has to be figured out

[slate dust]

Aye, I'm just trying to figure out how this all works out when 2 pieces of hardware have the same IP address but are on completely different subnets.

[mystic latch]

I guess I would ask why you want 2 different devices to have the same IP

IP conflicts can easily happen on a network when 2 devices want to use the same one. Causes both to have traffic issues

[slate dust]

Compan A has devices on network 10.1.1.0 /12 and Company B has devices on network 10.1.1.0 /18. Company C buys both Company A & Company B. Each Company has at least 3,258 devices assigned to an IP address. Do they need to change IP addressing schemes on one or both of the companies? Can a Switch or Router figure out the difference between the 2 networks based on the subnet?

[peak cloak]

Throw classes away, no one uses them anymore

And you need to use an IP range that is reserved for private use

[peak cloak]

Doesn't matter, still an IP conflict as long you can route between the 2 subnets

If you can't, ex 192.168.1.1 on one home router and also same on house next door, doesn't matter since you can not route between them

[mystic latch]

MAC addresses come into play after a certain level, and devices ask how to find another based on a response for an IP from the router, which they get a MAC in return. I'm not off am I @peak cloak?

[peak cloak]

Yeah it's at Layer 2

IPs are Layer 3

[mystic latch]

Right, so when 2 devices share an IP, other devices don't know where to actually send traffic

[peak cloak]

I don't remember how it works exactly but it's not from router

Devices themselves broadcast advertisements

[mystic latch]

Yea I'm not a network dude by profession

[peak cloak]

Yeah me neither

[slate dust]

Me thrither?

[mystic latch]

lol

[mystic latch]

I just remember mostly along the lines of this when it comes to IPs

[peak cloak]

If you want to read more about how IP resolution works https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_Resolution_Protocol

[slate dust]

Fun story, I passed the CCNA exams 10+ years ago. I forgot most of it 😦

[peak cloak]

This is only for L2, at L3 you would advertise subnets themselves between routers using bgp or similar protocols or set it statically with static routes

[mystic latch]

Yea very perishable skillset if one doesn't use it regularly

[hollow axle]

If you move to PVLANS, it COULD be done but EVERYONE would hate it......

[slate dust]

I don't even know what that is heh

guess is private virtual lans.

[hollow axle]

Basically every device is on its own private vlan

[slate dust]

That makes my inner child squee.

with delight.

[peak cloak]

Ah so what they do for Android v6 clients

[mystic latch]

I wish google weren't such fucks when it came to DHCPv6

[peak cloak]

So stupid how Android still doesn't support DHCPv6

[slate dust]

I have not even started on IPV6 or DHCPv6. I'm stuck in v4 learning.

[mystic latch]

An issue got opened for this over a goddamned decade ago.

Still just sitting there

[hollow axle]

But more intense. Basically every packet has to go through the control plane regardless so subnets really don't matter

[peak cloak]

And people wonder why v6 is taking so long when vendors need to implement such backwards solutions to things that shouldn't be problems

[slate dust]

That sounds slow and unproductive.

[hollow axle]

It's super secure though

[slate dust]

You had me at secure.

[peak cloak]

I mean that's basically just like client isolation right?

Devices can't talk between each other without going to router/network device

[hollow axle]

Unless permitted to, correct

[slate dust]

Behind my switch & router I can use whatever IP address I want for the most part though right? as long as its not 0.x.x.x, 127.x.x.x or 255.x.x.x?

[mystic latch]

One needs to balance security and their own time. How much time do you want to futz with things just for security? Don't get me wrong, security good, but it's on a scale like other things. Too much and a load of time is spent on just security

[hollow axle]

Do you want to use the Internet?

[peak cloak]

No

[slate dust]

Some devices yes, some no.

[peak cloak]

Only IP addresses reserved for private use

[slate dust]

I don't want my security system accessible to or from the internet.

or my steam backup server.

[peak cloak]

Then use firewall

[slate dust]

WHich is a backup of the backups.

[peak cloak]

Plz don't use global IPs for internal use

[mystic latch]

A regular router with a firewall prevents this

[hollow axle]

You SHOULD only use the RFC 1918 ranges

[peak cloak]

No, how would it fail open?

[slate dust]

Fail open?

[slate dust]

I have that paper saved.

[hollow axle]

If you use 8.8.8.x, you will have a bad day

[peak cloak]

You're saying firewall is a backup

[mystic latch]

Fun story, had a client that used public IPs for their internal network. Got assigned the range forever ago and they just refused to let go of it.

[peak cloak]

How would the firewall fail to access the Internet

[peak cloak]

I mean that kinda normal

It's fine if the range is assigned to you

College uses global IPs for dorm Ethernet

[slate dust]

For sanity's sake though, stay within in the pre-determined private IP ranges.

[mystic latch]

Oh fun

[hollow axle]

We had some people use ips in a /24 that we own in an internal network, that was a pain

Well, more a waste

[peak cloak]

Still firewalled to Internet, but I can rdp from anywhere on campus

[hollow axle]

If you can RDP from campus, it's on the internet

[peak cloak]

No ?

[hollow axle]

Rule #1, everything is accessible from the Internet if someone else can get to it

[slate dust]

RDP?

[mystic latch]

Yes. Start simple. Then you can build on that

[slate dust]

My notes.

[peak cloak]

I'm not worried, plus I had 2fa. Now I just got a better laptop and sold desktop so it's no longer an issue

Also by that logic, basically almost everything is public

[mystic latch]

:chad_yes:

[mystic latch]

But back to this @slate dust

[peak cloak]

Also the whole thing about .1 being gateway, etc. is not true in all cases

First bit is network address, last bit is broadcast

Just so happens in a /24, it's 0 and 255

And gateway can be whatever address

Just so happens it's common to have it at .1

[slate dust]

Thank you! I was wondering about that, when say an IP address goes from 192.168.50.60 - 192.168.50.75, the next range would start .76 and be the same as the broadcast yeah?

[hollow axle]

Yes. From a IT SEC point of view.. that is true

[hollow axle]

None would start at 60

[slate dust]

Company A has devices on IP range 10.1.1.0 to 10.1.1.100 on subnet 255.0.0.0 and Company B has devices on the same range but has the subnet 255.255.255.0 both have different subnets and Company C buys them and wants them all to talk to each other, does the separate subnets keep Ca and Cb from having to change their IP addressing schemes?

I think I have answered this question.

[peak cloak]

No, broadcast and network address are different. If broadcast is let's say at .16 then next network would be at .17
Not sure if those are real irl just a example

[hollow axle]

The best approach would be to keep the 2 separate

[mystic latch]

I didn't realize that was your own justification since you ended in a question lol

[slate dust]

Ha.

[peak cloak]

Yeah makes sense, someone can run proxy, etc but it wouldn't be directly accessible with IP for example

[hollow axle]

There is no way to integrate them without re-IPing

Or keeping the networks separate

[slate dust]

Thank you.

[hollow axle]

You can 100% keep them separated and talk via NAT

[slate dust]

NAT?

[peak cloak]

Read an interesting post about bank acquisitions and how the systems stay separate for a long time and the intricacies of combining them

[slate dust]

Network Attached Telementry?

[hollow axle]

Network address translation

[slate dust]

I took a guess.

[hollow axle]

How your router translates your traffic to the outside world

[peak cloak]

And all sorts of custom integrations need to be made

Which soundrd really similar to the bandaid, NAT

[slate dust]

DM me the title? I am interested.

[peak cloak]

Was on hacker news a while back, I'll see if I can find it

[slate dust]

With my Layer 3 switch though, i can do so much more than give single addresses to single devices yeah? I can combine and separate at will with access control lists yeah?

and VLANs?

[hollow axle]

No, acls just are allow/deny

[slate dust]

Oh, it's a managed Layer 3 switch.

[hollow axle]

What kind of switch?

[slate dust]

So it has router capabilities built in, I think.

Lenovo CE0128TB

https://lenovopress.lenovo.com/lp1061.pdf

Software features Lenovo Campus Networking OS (Campus NOS):
Layer 2 switching, Layer 3 switching, virtual local area networks (VLANs), VLAN tagging,
spanning tree protocol (STP), link aggregation (trunk) groups (LAGs), link dependency, quality of
service (QoS), stacking, IPv4/IPv6 management, IPv4/IPv6 routing, IPv4/IPv6 virtual router
redundancy protocol (VRRP), IPv4/IPv6 policy-based routing (PBR), IPv4/IPv6 protocol
independent multicast (PIM).

[peak cloak]

https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/

[slate dust]

Thank you.

I have been doing customer service for the past 30+ years, I want to move out of having to regularly talk to people so I'm going with IT since I already kind of enjoy and get it.

[hollow axle]

It's a switch, don't expect more from that

[slate dust]

I was expecting to be able to create static routes between devices on my network.

[peak cloak]

You won't need static routes

[slate dust]

I don't need anything, I want to.

[peak cloak]

If every vlan is "made" at one router

[hollow axle]

Not with that switch most likely anyways

[slate dust]

I thought Vlans were made on the Layer 3 switch.

[peak cloak]

No

[hollow axle]

I didn't know if you had gotten your hands on like a nexus 9k or something

[slate dust]

I don't know what that is 😉

[hollow axle]

$$$

[slate dust]

Oh, Ha, hi, I'm poor people.

It was the cheapest layer 3 managed switch I could find new.

For learning.

[peak cloak]

Ok so basically vlans are basically little flags which tell network devices what "highway/line" it's one

Switches often are used to untag vlans for end devices

So pluging in a device on that port will make it on vlan 12 for example

[slate dust]

Yeah!

[peak cloak]

On the switch you would have a trunk port with every vlan tagged which goes to router

[hollow axle]

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/datasheet-c78-744052.html

That's a switch that that can act as a router

[peak cloak]

In router you would have virtual interfaces, (implementation specific) that would basically be the gateways for your devices

[hollow axle]

That Lenovo is more designed to handle losing a link

[peak cloak]

Also how devices would route between vlans, (through router)

Can also run services like dhcp

[hollow axle]

At my 9-5 we use 93180YC-FXs as routers all the time. Mostly for BGP ect

[slate dust]

Static DHCP is a thing though?

Whereby "Devices in this category only get these IPs?"

[hollow axle]

A router with static route with have a long list of x.x.x.x/y via y.y.y.y

[hollow axle]

Dhcp reservations

[slate dust]

Added to the notebook.

[peak cloak]

Basically, this MAC addresses gets this IP

[hollow axle]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/windows_protocols/ms-dhcpn/750cf60d-bcca-4e5c-8d79-3eaaa0276c6e

[peak cloak]

Usually just a button in router make device static

[hollow axle]

There's ALL sorts of stuff you can do

You can even give one IP, that is on a restricted network then after a health check, move it to the normal network

It's a can of worms

[slate dust]

mmmm tasty wrigglys

WOuld it be possible to make it so that my main PC is able to access and see everyone and everything, but only certain devices would be able to see me?

[peak cloak]

Yes

[slate dust]

Neat.

I don't want to do that, having 1 pc atttached to all the things sounds like a bad idea.

having the option to do so though, is cool.

[hollow axle]

100% chance you will break it

Everyone breaks dhcp

[slate dust]

Ha.

[peak cloak]

At least in the vyatta based OS I used there's 4 traffic types: new, established, related, invalid

So you can drop new connections to PC subnet

But allow PC new to rest

Also found this image which can help understand vlans

[hollow axle]

VLAN per port, scrub

Weve got some ports with over a hundred..

We stopped counting at that point

[slate dust]

Right now I have 14 different networks that I would like to set up. Management, Pi Hole, VPN, Security, Home Users, Work, TVs, Guest Net A, Guest Net B, Media Server, Game Servers, Steam Back up, Files Backup and other.

[hollow axle]

Don't VLAN off your DNS

DNS is UDP

[slate dust]

I would like to make it so that some have to go through the VPN & Pi Hole, some don't, some can see each other, some can see each other and everyone else on that network, and some are isolated to only 1 or 2 users.

Do I separate them with IPs / Subnets + Vlans and ACLs?

[rocky badge]

@hollow marlin

My friend and I moved our VPN routing to BGP

[peak cloak]

Per device or per vlan?

[slate dust]

Yes.

[peak cloak]

Per device would be a huge pita

[slate dust]

Some per device, some per vlan.

For instance, the Steam Link is 1 device, I may add more things like it, but I only want it to be able to see the internet and allow only 1 device at a time to connect.

[peak cloak]

I would figure out device categories and do per vlan, then it's pretty simple

[hollow axle]

Are 10.10.1.3/4 HA nodes?

[rocky badge]

no

[hollow axle]

Why are you getting the same routes from both then?

[rocky badge]

They both can route to it

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.apartment.ryois.net [10.110.0.1]
  2    41 ms    43 ms    41 ms  router.as64512.bgp.ryois.net [10.10.1.1]
  3    83 ms    84 ms    86 ms  10.10.1.4
  4    82 ms    83 ms    83 ms  unifi.redacted.com [10.13.20.20]

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.apartment.ryois.net [10.110.0.1]
  2    44 ms    43 ms    43 ms  router.as64514.bgp.ryois.net [10.10.1.4]
  3    45 ms    43 ms    43 ms  unifi.redacted.com [10.13.20.20]

[hollow axle]

So just dual path?

[rocky badge]

Yes

[hollow axle]

Didn't know if you were ringing it

I saw as in there and once you start dealing with that sort of thing, you start dealing with architectures where it could get INTERESTING

[rocky badge]

I love how my friend just lets me have full remote access of his router 🤣

[hollow axle]

I don't even think my router can do BGP.

I think my switch can but not going there (3750x with IP Services license)

[slate dust]

That's a CIsco switch yeah?

[hollow axle]

Yup

[slate dust]

Neat!

[rocky badge]

My switch can but I don't wanna lol

C3850 with ip services

[slate dust]

So many terms and acronyms to learn.

[hollow axle]

BGP is one of those voodoo things for me

[rocky badge]

Home network

[slate dust]

That is pretty

[rocky badge]

Apartment is gonna be similar but a 24 port version of that switch instead of 48

[slate dust]

Also, what am I looking at?

[rocky badge]

Cisco Catalyst 3850-48P
Fortinet FortiGate 40F

[slate dust]

What is that 2nd one?

The Fortinet FortiGate 40F?

[rocky badge]

A router/ngfw

[slate dust]

NGFW?

[rocky badge]

next gen firewall

[slate dust]

My apologies, I am still learning.

[hollow axle]

Yeah, those were more expensive... I only paid like $175 and the network module can out of the scrap pile at work

[rocky badge]

NGFWs can do more just stateful firewalls

IP reputation, IPS/IDS, application control/DPI, email, etc.

[slate dust]

Right now, I am aware of the word firewall, I know how it applies to vehicles and I've disabled and created rules inside of software firewalls, but still am not exactly what they are or how they operate.

[hollow axle]

I was originally planning on a ubiquity switch so I got too short of a wall rack aadly

[rocky badge]

That C3850 was like $115 and NM-2-10G was $110

[hollow axle]

Ha

[rocky badge]

the 40F was $485.61

[slate dust]

Also, not necessarily looking for an explanation at this juncture, as I am sure in my CCNA studies, I'll learn.

[rocky badge]

the 40F at home was brand new bought from a vendor

[hollow axle]

Firewalls will do as much or as little as you ask them to

[rocky badge]

but the 40F I got for my apartment was used on ebay for $240

[hollow axle]

It all depends on your network architecture

[hollow axle]

I'm surprised they work used

I thought fortinet was all about the subscription

[rocky badge]

I am trying out Instant On AP at apartment

but home is just unifi APs bc I don't wanna spend more on wireless LMFAO

[slate dust]

That Catalyst, is it a layer 3 managed switch?

[rocky badge]

Yeah some features aren't available 😦

[rocky badge]

Yea

[hollow axle]

Depends on the license

[slate dust]

Whoa! Great price!

[rocky badge]

cisco uh

[slate dust]

I paid $185 for the lenovo one I have.

[rocky badge]

doesn't really check

[hollow axle]

Mine came with ip services for some reason which was a suprise

[rocky badge]

"right to use"

[hollow axle]

https://www.router-switch.com/faq/ip-base-ip-service-ip-advanced-service-difference.html#:~:text=The IP base is for,(25)SEB and later.

[slate dust]

Question: Purpose of a patch panel?

[hollow axle]

Make it clean

[rocky badge]

termination for drops

[slate dust]

I have my switch going direcly to my other devices.

[peak cloak]

termintating long runs

[hollow axle]

Home runs suck

[peak cloak]

also punchdown > crimping

[rocky badge]

My drops at home don't actually terminate in that rack

[slate dust]

For the looks then?

[hollow axle]

Also, POE rocks those PIs are all POE

No, for usability

[slate dust]

I am confused.

[hollow axle]

Structure cable isn't designed to move like patch cables

[rocky badge]

the drops terminate in a smaller 4U rack that I don't care about lol

[hollow axle]

Patch cables are stranded copper

[peak cloak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/networking/comments/16m7i6q/whats_the_point_of_a_patch_panel/

[hollow axle]

Cable from a box are solid

[slate dust]

Oh, I did that but in Excel.

[rocky badge]

@peak cloak I wish I did stuff differently when I was running cable in the house

[hollow axle]

When I run a new drop in my house, it goes to the patch panel. It doesn't HAVE to get patched in.

[slate dust]

All the ports are labeled and clearly dictate which cable goes to which port on which device.

[peak cloak]

yeah but that's not the only reason

[peak cloak]

my stuff is not perfect either, have 2 sub-switches

[rocky badge]

1. I wish I pulled more CAT6 to my room I only did one because my tought was "I have fiber running to my room"
2. I wish I pulled SMF to my room instead of OM3 MMF

[hollow axle]

The aimesh node in my office gets patched to the main router in the living room which wouldn't have been possible if I had put plugs on them

[hollow axle]

You hate yourself?

[slate dust]

I have also labeled the cables and noted which network each one belongs to.

[rocky badge]

Yeah having documentation in the computer is nice but having stuff labeled on the patch panel is nice

[hollow axle]

Noone WANTs SMF

[rocky badge]

SMF is pretty standard lol

optics are cheap too

-SR/MMF is $20
-LR/SMF is $27

[peak cloak]

isn't single mode more popular now

[rocky badge]

the cabling is meh difference at this size

[hollow axle]

Single mode is FAR more fussy though and FS optics don't count

Not in the enterprise

[slate dust]

So mostly for looks.

[rocky badge]

I don't need other optics

[slate dust]

Appearance, visual perception of information.

[rocky badge]

Work I am pushing to go SMF when we replace optics/fiber

[peak cloak]

not really, if you you read through the reddit post comments there's a bunch of other reasons

[rocky badge]

get rid of MMF

[hollow axle]

It depends where it is too

And how many

Someone told my team that one of our new site was going to be all single mode everywhere, so I told them that we needed 384 of https://www.cdw.com/product/cisco-sfp-transceiver-module-fibre-channel/4913711?enkwrd=DS-SFP-FC32G-lw

Instead of these https://www.cdw.com/product/cisco-sfp-transceiver-module-32gb-fibre-channel-sw/4955145

They about-faced their no-mmf stance really quick

[rocky badge]

We never install MMF at clients because so much stuff doesn't work over MMF for us

[hollow axle]

If it is only a few going between like a dmarc and a closet, meh

[hollow marlin]

BGP 💚

[rocky badge]

Plus SMF is just so much easier

[hollow axle]

But people blanket making statements about smf being better isn't always correct

[rocky badge]

I want to do OSPF from a SVI on the switch for networks for roommates at apartment

[hollow axle]

If someone wants to tell me that I HAVE to spend an extra $22,650 PER OPTIC because it's "better", we make them pay the Delta 🤓

We don't even get to the discounted prices because it end quickly

[hollow marlin]

That'll work just fine. Also enable multipath if the latency is similar across both VPNs for the ECMP

[hollow axle]

How does that load balance? Round Robbin per conversation?

[pseudo blade]

Generally I suggest not being ripped off

[rocky badge]

nah one way is way slower

[pseudo blade]

It's like the small business server quotes asking for a thousand bucks for low-capacity 2.5" hard drives

Like no, buy an enterprise SSD from a reputable vendor for less money

[rocky badge]

I'd pay good money to have a a /30 or /29 from my ISP lol @hollow marlin

I could HA pair a 40F for prod home network and then have some rando router for the lab. BGP the lab & prod for access.

[hollow axle]

We are building a Datacenter and I have like 40 cabinets of servers going in and the GC tried to tell me the new standard for the enterprise is SMF. I told them that was cute.

[rocky badge]

Separate everything entirely

[pseudo blade]

Beats having to rip up all your MMF later

[hollow axle]

They also said that someone had said 3.5kw/cab and I told them they were getting 10kw/cab so have fun

[rocky badge]

That's what I'm having to do rn at work

[pseudo blade]

As said, if you're paying $22k for non-exotic optics you are being taken for a ride

[hollow axle]

It's within a Datacenter cabling, people shouldn't lump that with structured cabling

[pseudo blade]

I'm not

It's far worse there

[hollow axle]

Cisco 100gb single mode optics list around 25k I think

[peak cloak]

idk much but seems pretty damn high compared to others which list around 1k?

[rocky badge]

you're never paying list!

if you buy cisco at list you're doing something horribly wrong lol

[hollow axle]

https://www.cdw.com/product/cisco-qsfp-transceiver-module-100-gigabit-ethernet/4953988

[slate dust]

Huh. Port Based Authentication? What!?

[pseudo blade]

And I'm sure they have a script to book a cruise every time someone buys one of those

[hollow axle]

Even at 60% off it's 10k

[rocky badge]

SFP-10G-LR lists for $4,882... we can get them for like $160 from our vendor 😏

[slate dust]

I am so close to turning on my equipment and assigning IPs and creating some VMs

[hollow axle]

So yeah, mmf for the win

[rocky badge]

And we don't even buy much Cisco to start with...lol we don't deploy Cisco a whole lot

[hollow axle]

The 100g-LR is a CWDM which can introduce a ton of other challenges

[rocky badge]

I just like keeping Cisco to myself in our network 😄

[hollow axle]

We have to buy oem if we can

[pseudo blade]

Sounds like a policy that works well for you if you're getting list prices

[hollow axle]

We get huge discounts 🤓

[rocky badge]

We sell netgear m4250 for most deployments we do. Only big ones I spec cat9k

but that's bc its AVoIP :P

[pseudo blade]

A friend of mine's gotten big into AV recently for his business

[rocky badge]

I don't trust Aruba for AVoIP so that throws HPE out

I don't trust UniFi for AVoIP anything so that throws Ubiquiti out

Juniper is probably ok but never really tried it

[pseudo blade]

Ah, so you use TP-link and Tenda :P

[rocky badge]

So that leaves netgear m4250/m4350 and Cisco

[hollow axle]

AVoIP?

[rocky badge]

AV over IP

[rocky badge]

oh nice, its a good space

Lots of money to be made

[hollow axle]

Av vendors LOVE those Netgears

[pseudo blade]

Stadium+big event work

[rocky badge]

and then charge those yearly service contracts

[hollow axle]

Idk why

[rocky badge]

[rocky badge]

1. stupid easy to configure out of the box
2. the price is good
3. they have features people want

[hollow axle]

For us, dual power is a 100% must have so they sold us Netgears and put in ATSs that cost more than we could have gotten cat9300s for

Supposedly "designed for AV" or some rubbish

IP packets are IP packets

[rocky badge]

Yeah because they have all of the config out of the box

IGMP is configured correctly out of the box

Multicast traffic is a big part of AVoIP

[pseudo blade]

They are until you need consistency for a key application

[rocky badge]

You need IGMP correctly configured to manage it esp across a bigger network where you need queriers and such

[hollow axle]

Could like a Cat9300 do that if they configured it right?

[rocky badge]

They also have AVB capability and PTP

The 24 port PoE+ with 4x SFP+ we typically deploy is ~$1400 for us

[hollow axle]

That's just a bit less than a C9300-24H-E would run us

And cats never ever die. Maybe Netgears have gotten better but I am still jaded from back in the day when they were hot garbage

[rocky badge]

with uplink module?

[hollow axle]

That's like 500

[rocky badge]

@hollow marlin I wanna get into more complex networking stuff at work 😄 right now the most "exciting" thing on our network is just VRRP routers lol

but this network is so interesting to design because I have to maintain independence if we have to split the racks but we also like it all being "one" network lol

[hollow axle]

The room has 2 8x11 walls the 2 5x8 walls and a couple smaller ones

VRRP is awesome to learn!

[rocky badge]

At uni we have an AV closet between 2 classrooms

2 rooms AVoIP stuff go into that

Then for some buildings all of them are connected to the main telecomm rooms which allow the entire building's AV to be networked

[hollow axle]

That's 8 screens by 11 screens. All are 55"

[rocky badge]

and since its just Crestron NVX or AMX NMX content can be routed between rooms

Same for audio since its just Dante

[hollow axle]

It's a bit silly huge

You work with VPC yet?

[rocky badge]

yes

[hollow axle]

As a server guy, it's my favorite thing

Death to VSS

[slate dust]

Hello again.

Question:

Can I get a quick pros and cons of each design?

Does it matter?

[pseudo blade]

Well right off the bat I can tell you that several of your defined ranges are impossible with your stated subnet masks.

The CIDRs are also wrong

[slate dust]

I am using classless subnets for the IP ranges.

[pseudo blade]

So is everyone I can name this century, but your subnet masks and CIDR ranges remain incorrect

[slate dust]

So they won't work?

[hollow axle]

Correct

[pseudo blade]

You look to be mixing up /12 and /20, using IP addresses outside the defined ranges, forgetting to specify the actual network address for your CIDR notation

[hollow axle]

Use normal subnets, some OSs don't like invalid subnets

[pseudo blade]

Using "255" as a broadcast even when your network is smaller than one byte and starts at zero

It won't be your broadcast address, the address at the end of the network will be

[hollow axle]

Step 1) determine the maximum number of devices per subnet

/23s probably aren't needed

[pseudo blade]

We can't even say that, we don't know anything about the requirements

[slate dust]

A, 30, B, 1, C, 120, D, 64, E, 64, F, 128, G, 117, H 1030?, I, 128, J, 128, K, 4, L, 1, M, 1, N, 1

[hollow axle]

You need 1000 devices?

[pseudo blade]

But I can say that your design is broken, and you need to figure out your actual requirements if you want us to say anything useful beyond "it won't work"

[slate dust]

I'd like to have fun on that one.

That is my requirements.

[pseudo blade]

Well I can assure you that your specified design is indeed "fun"

[slate dust]

30 on A, 1 on B, 120 on C, 64 on D, 64 on E, 128 on F, 117 on G, 1000+ on H, 128 on I, 128 on J, 4 on K, 1 on each of L, M and N

[hollow axle]

M is setup for 511 devices

[slate dust]

Ha.

Or, would it be fine to just put everything in the same subnet?

[hollow axle]

Your sheet is all wrong

In a /21

If it needs 1 device, use a /28

https://next.lightmesh.com/planner

[hollow axle]

Topic of firewalls, has anyone else noticed how awesome the new SRXs look?

[coarse kraken]

Hi i have Zlt X21 CPE bought new. When first time i used it both 2.4ghz and 5ghz wifi popped up on my devices 2 mobiles 1 laptop. but now after restarting it don't show 5ghz wifi on any device. I tried changing channel bandwidth and all but can't see 5ghz wifi.

[fallow tangle]

We got a new Pioner Xumo TV and it wont let me disable sale of ads, it just errors every time. I am trying to set up a DMZ rule and the only thing it makes vulnerable it that TV correct? which I am fine with, isolate it
I am still learning so sorry if this is a dumb question

Aparently my router only has DMZ host, I am not sure if that is cosndiered secure enough

[hollow marlin]

I mentioned them when they were announced and they're my color. I actually just got a quote back and the SRX1600 starts at $10k

[tiny granite]

hey everyone! I've been here for a while, I mostly lurk but I'm having an issue I hope someone can help me with. I used to have Optimum's router and I knew it was junk as evidenced by me having to restart it almost every day. Finally three years ago I bought an R7000 (AC1900) router from ebay. It worked great and I didn't have to restart for about 2-1/2 yrs. I was finally out of restart hell! I had to restart it once or twice but no big deal. I know that can happen on occasion. Well fast forward until the past 2-4 months and I'm back to having to restart the router every 1-2 days. I did some research and I read it can overheat so I put a mini fan next to it using the usb port for power. It was good for maybe a week or two. Then it just went right back to where I was w/ Optimum's crappy router so much so that I eventually added an outlet switch so I don't have to actually unplug it because I'm having to restart it so damn much. I know routers can get overloaded. I stream tv with firesticks, my son is a gamer. We have phones, a tablet, I have ring cameras, I have a google mini w/ 6 smart bulbs. Between the two of us we are online about 12 hrs-16 hours/day. (24 hours if you count phones because I use a white noise video to sleep. Do I have to buy a $49,000 router? HOW do I stop this? I'm at my witts end. I want to be able to wake up and look at the internet without having to get up to restart the router almost every day. HELP!!!

[pseudo blade]

Well I guess my first answer is that these questions should go in #1027757333117415424 as it sounds like a lot of troubleshooting may be involved.

It could be a software issue rather than thermal, which might explain your lack of success with your fans.Perhaps you should check if your issues started at the time of a software update or if an upgrade is available.

I hate how awful consumer-grade routers tend to be on the software side and tend to use enterprise-grade equipment instead - Love my Mikrotik stuff, highly reliable and consistent once configured - though they are idiosyncratic and tend to scare novices due to having a lot of options in a lot of places. They also tend to be a bit late to the party on new technologies.
Some people here really like Unifi gear for their ease of use and polished interface though my experiences with their WiFi APs working with phones and Microsoft Surfaces have been... inconsistent.

[peak cloak]

^ I've had no issues with tp-link's omada hardware

I have both thier router and AP and both have been 24/7 with no issues

not as advanced, but pretty easy to configrure

[tiny granite]

oooh sorry!! I saw tech support and thought it could go here.. I will keep that in mind for next time. 🙂 Makes sense that it should be in tech support.
Now that you mention it, it should have an update.. let me check that first. I never did update it since I got it....
Thanks for the info everyone.

[silent flax]

on one side i like the prices of these chinese 2.5Gbe switches with 1-2 10Gbe SFP+ ports. On other side the only computer in my home with support for more than 1Gbe is... the 2018 Mac Mini with 10Gbe 😄. I guess i will skip 2.5Gbe switches

[pseudo blade]

I'm in no rush, my work lab's all one hypervisor serving itself and internet speeds out here don't exceed 100mbps

[waxen scroll]

muh ubiquiti

[silent flax]

my internet is only 500mbps as well, i would love faster NAS speeds for random copying, but can't be bothered to pay hundreds of euros for 10gbe switches

[fast sky]

can i get an open nat type without accessing my router settings? like is there a recommended vpn?

[fervent brook]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/539659550589190164/1178801761285320704/image.png

I probably paid too much. it's only dual band and it's not 6e

I'm literally holding a 5 year old router that is designated "MR9000"...these names are confusing

[pseudo blade]

I recommend going by the specs rather than the model number

[fervent brook]

it'd be kinda hard to make routers by the specs without having really complex model numbers

[pseudo blade]

Uh no, I mean that you have to do research rather than looking for the bigger number.

[fervent brook]

of course. I was just saying the naming is weird

I have an e(a) 6900, 7500, 8350 and those make sense in their featureset mostly

[strong mantle]

Hello everyone..
We are willing to provide a wifi network for 45 devices in a Classroom...
Shall i choose a 3 pack mesh router (closely placed) or 3 separate router to manage the 45 devices simultaneously?

[fervent brook]

are you asking if you should use a mesh solution, or just manually assign devices?

if you're willing to overlap 2.4ghz, I'd use 5 routers. how many high freq 5.0 channels are available in your area?

then again, if all the APs have line of sight, you can rely on 5.0

do they make dual 5ghz APs with no 2.4?

how many total devices? how many at the same time?

how many different rooms?

[pseudo blade]

If they're closely placed you're not going to get a benefit from a mesh system, mesh systems shine for coverage extension, not capacity extension (if anything they just waste spectrum you could be using for more capacity).
If it's a nice open room a ceiling-mounted AP will most likely do a great job.

[strong mantle]

All will be in LOS
1 room, 45 different device

[strong mantle]

Shall I use mesh router in AP mode then?

[fervent brook]

LOS? 45 people all using devices at once?

[peak cloak]

you should only have 1 router, which will be behind modem

you can do in AP mode, but at that point might as well just buy a good AP

[fervent brook]

unless you buy your equipment at Goodwill

[strong mantle]

Actually someone bought a 3 piece mesh set already...
So I'm thinking to turn the other two as ap

[strong mantle]

Big classroom...
They'll all use at once in class break

[peak cloak]

is this part of a school?

there should be existing infastructure no?

[strong mantle]

They provided LAN connection only

And may pay for our router

[fervent brook]

just buy a bunch of random routers from goodwill and plug every one into the wired lan and see what happens

[silent flax]

well, i wanted to test the cheapo 10Gbe NIC in my desktop... but X540 has no WIndows 11 drivers anymore 😄 . Will have to put it into one of my servers later, can't be bothered to test it today

[silent flax]

(well, tested it in a Windows 10 desktop after all, vs a Mac mini with 10Gbe, did work)

[fervent brook]

how many gigabits are in a "GBe"?

[silent flax]

sorry

[fervent brook]

what are you sorry for?

at least you didnt say "10Go"

silly other languages...

[strong mantle]

There is only few of them tho

[fervent brook]

Oh, I thought each student got one

[thick minnow]

hi.
out of curiosity, is this channel for actual network networking, or social /professional connections networking?

[fervent brook]

"For all your networking equipment needs".
Phrasing!

[knotty plover]

What is the easiest way to make a game think I'm in Paris and connect to those servers?

Currently, I share a VPN from PC to console so that happens

I want to not use VPN, still make the game think I'm in Paris

Specifically for Consoles BTW

[polar timber]

Hi! I would like to build my own pfSense/opnSense router. I have been looking for some fairly cheap 2 port 1gb NIC for that and I would like to hear some recommendations for that. My budget for that would be ~50€ (can be cheaper if there are options). Also, if you can suggest some shops (European ones) where I could get NICs quite cheaply, used or new. Thanks in advance, I'm quite new to this stuff and I'm now building my first router. 😄

[clear igloo]

Look for Intel 82576 chip based NICs. You can definitely find dual ports for around 30 to 40 on Amazon but depends on country too I guess. If there are local shops definitely search around but try to stick to Intel stuff for best compatibility with pfsense in my experience

Intel I350-T2 or I350-T4 would be good

[polar timber]

Alright, thank you! I will start looking for those 👍

[opal pagoda]

either vpn or proxy
dont know of any other methods ||except from moving to that location ||

[knotty plover]

Haha, Proxy doesn't work, I'd like to have main connection so ping is lower

[ashen nexus]

So i got the nothing phone 2 the kb/s drops all the way to 30 and goes back up to 120 kb/s
or sometims drops down as far as 0.70kb/s
the signal strength says it's excellent and it's full

So maybe someone knows a bit more about this?

[long pecan]

K so I have a 50GB ZIP file in iCloud which is in the process of being downloaded to my phone, I want to extract it onto my NAS (OMV on a pi)

What would be the best way to do it? Extract the file locally and upload the folder, or move the zip to the server and extract it there?

I’m gonna leave it going overnight so time isn’t really an issue, but what’s generally the best way to do that?

[pseudo blade]

Move then extract on the server via a command to the server

[long pecan]

I did think about that, idk how to tho

[pseudo blade]

SSH

unzip

[long pecan]

No I know, I meant the command to extract

[pseudo blade]

OMV's debian, use unzip

[long pecan]

Thanks! 😅

[long pecan]

Syntax I’m guessing is just
unzip <zip file> <output path>

[pseudo blade]

unzip <file> -d <destination if not same>

[long pecan]

Cheers!

What does the -d flag do out of interest

[pseudo blade]

Destination, optional

[long pecan]

Ah ok, tyy

[pseudo blade]

No problem, you can consult the man page if you need more answers

[glass spoke]

Hey in where I leave there a ISP offering 10gbe fiber TV for 99€ /month. What do you think, because it is xgxpon I can't connect it directly to my network gear so it needs to go through the isps all in one ont router that thankfully had bridge mode.

Is it whort it?

[peak cloak]

Do you need 10 gig? Most don't, I don't even have 1 gig

Depends what you think is worth the cost

[glass spoke]

Ya that's true but I only consired it because all other offers aren't symmetrical current I have 500dw/100up

And I am a computer science student, so

The real question is, can a unifi udm pro handle 10gig, from what I can see not very well.

Anything else that you can recommend. Maybe custom built opsense??

[peak cloak]

It prob can, just not with IDS/IPS

[hollow marlin]

@clear igloo @waxen scroll @rocky badge
Optical transport cross connects - 18 simple steps

[clear igloo]

18 simple steps
network engineers HATE him!!

[waxen scroll]

you messed up one of those arrows

[hollow marlin]

That was provided by the vendor

[waxen scroll]

port 2 is messed up

you need an attenuator on there

[hollow marlin]

Are you referring to this port? I believe there is an inline attenuator is goes through

[rocky badge]

lmao

[waxen scroll]

I'm trolling you to keep looking at the thing until your eyes pop

[silent flax]

there is also this (not sure if it is from extras or in standard packages)

then you can enable it and open ui, and you get a command line via web browser

[silent flax]

most things can't handle 10Gbe, but you don't have to. If the slower alternatives aren't cheaper enough and you still get higher speeds, then why not. I mean if the 500/100 is 50 euros, but your hardware is capable of using 3000/3000 (for example), then the 10gbe symetrical is still worth it

[rocky badge]

Line rate it can

No IPS/IDS

but I've seen people put 9.5Gbps through it NAT

[silent flax]

meanwhile i am here looking at my 500/30 cable internet and wondering if i should go with 1000/500 with static IPv4 for 41 euros monthly (without static IPv4 it is 33 euros) - it would save me a 6 euro VPS tho

[limpid turtle]

sounds like a pretty good deal to me. just recently switched from cable to fiber. its night/day difference. Comcast to ATT fiber in the US

[thick minnow]

someones trying to get me to run
netsh wlan show interfaces | find “BSSID”.

does that reveal any personal/dangerous info

[limpid turtle]

run it first then see what it gives, then give him the info if it doesnt look personal

[silent flax]

it shows you the mac address of your wifi

[thick minnow]

can someone do something bad to you with your mac address

[silent flax]

https://zuli.io/how-to-find-the-bssid-of-a-wireless-network

ssid is the textual name of the wifi network, bssid is the technical address the network

it is visible via scan of wifi networks anyway

it will simply tell the other person if you are connected to a wifi, and if you are, then to what wifi. but unless he knows the BSSID of your local wifi networks, doubt it will tell him much

[peak cloak]

Nothing much, who's asking

Can tell what type of device it is

[peak cloak]

BSIID is the id of the base station

Basically the mac address of Access point I believe

[flint crag]

how does ip bans work on dynamic ips

[glass spoke]

For me it's 70€ for 500/100 fiber, TV and 3 sim cards

I think the prices are pretty good.

It's a ipv4 static by default, we can enable for free ipv6

[silent flax]

technically this is for 1000/300, then 1000/500 + IPv4 + static IPv4. The upgrade from 100/300 to 1000/500 might not worth the 10 euros tho, in that case it would be 30.03 euros for 1000/300 with static IPv4.

On one side having a static IPv4 would mean i could drop my 6 euro VPS and use my hardware at home for web server etc - a spare Ivy Bridge or X99 system will handily beat the poor 1 core, 1GB RAM, 25GB storage VPS i have. On other side i would have to really read the fineprint on IPS rules, if they even allow it for home connections.

In your case it still comes down to deciding if you can actually use that bandwidth for something, and if you can live with that fee.

[opal pagoda]

they dont

[silent flax]

but also truly dynamic IP is a rarity these days. most customers are behind a CGNAT on IPv4 and have semi-fixed IPv6 (if they got IPv6)

[glass spoke]

For now I m sticking with my current plan and maybe they will offer free upgrade to 1000/500

And when I have time I will write a small guide with all the configuration needed to use personal gear with meo and have tv and the landline(voip) work with MEO Portugal.

[silent flax]

my janky USB NIC on my "router" is finally getting replaced by still janky solution, but which is a "real" network card at least (the case i have used doesn't have a PCIe slot opening, so i had to use mPCIe it had and there is a hole to pass through those two cables (the hole was originally intended for USB cables... it's complicate). can't wait for the delivery on monday 😛

[static moat]

is that a wifi connector to a ethernet adapter? 😁

[silent flax]

no, it is an mPCIe ethernet adapter

but yes, mPCIe and M.2 key A/E is mostly used for WiFi

but not exclusively

[static moat]

ofc not exclusively buit that is what imgetting at

[silent flax]

you can get ethernet cards, SATA controllers for those slots

[static moat]

that is where i know that connector from

[silent flax]

to be precise - this is the system it goes into. the wifi card is removed, it goes there. the usb cables which go out of the case are now connected via adapter to the internal USB3 header, and that is the holw ehre i will pull the cables throug, so the ethernet port side will be outside. Not ideal, but better than an USB NIC 😄

reusing very old HW for a router, why not. Kinda OP router, but oh well 😄

(i5-3470, Z77 ITX mobo, 16GB RAM, 250GB+250GB+1050GB storage, running OpenWRT and docker on it)

[pseudo blade]

I assume the red piece is an M.2 slot adapter?

[silent flax]

yes, but there is no opening at back of the case

also the case is very low (low profile devices wouldn't fit). internally looks like this

i just put it in there cause i don't really have use for that slot (would have to solve a riser somehow to make it usable otherwise), and the storage drive is even more useless 😄

cause that is XP941 250GB, which is a PCIe AHCI drive. Not NVMe, nor SATA, so can't put it in any USB boxes. Also pre-Z97 boards can't boot from it either

it runs OpenWRT, plus few docker containers (HA, Guacamole, NGINX Proxy Manager, Mosquitto, Heimdall, few downloaders, portainer, ntfy), still got way too much RAM unused (13.4GB), CPU barely does anything (<5-10% at peak) and storage is more than enough

just that NIC is the last piece of puzzle which is missing, and then i can call it done. Sure, it uses around 29-30W at idle from the wall, but on other side it is overkill enough to host enough of 24/7 software and be a router at same time

[opal pagoda]

what cpu are you using?

[silent flax]

as i said above, i5-3470. pictures and specs few posts above 🙂

[opal pagoda]

im blind

[opal pagoda]

what is avalibile height of the case? probally not enough to fit half height pcie card

[silent flax]

i mean, is it ideal choice ? no. But at same time, the board is a part i had since 2011 or 2012, CPU was a cheap part i bought some years ago (the board was with 3570K, but that is too OP for this use case), SSDs were from various previous builds between 2014 and 2017, case was from a build i did for mom around 2011. only RAM is relatively new, from Ali 😄

[opal pagoda]

yea i see, not even pcie slots are cut out

[silent flax]

to be precise, 6.5cm from the bottom of the I/O cutout to the top of the case

[opal pagoda]

if i made a router it would probably be based in one of those sff pc-s from hp, dell or fujitsu

[silent flax]

so technically low profile could fit barely, but no cutout means no card. as i mentioned the cutout above I/O shield for the USB front panel cables is my best way to do this, as i don't want to spend money on case if i can just reuse old HW, even if it is going to be a janky solution

yea, but outside of this NIC and a laptop DVD to SATA SSD adapter, i had literally every part in storage, so 🤷‍♂️

[opal pagoda]

for home server i use even more limiting platform (nuc-alike) and storage is external

tho i do have a open mini pcie slot for future shenanigans like coral ai accelerator

[silent flax]

mPCIe or M.2 ?

cause that thing above exists in all for factors. Even crazier versions, like this quad realtek gigabit M.2 2280.... thing

or a M.2 2280 to 10Gbe RJ45 😄

(or if ribbon cable is not your thing)

or dual gigabit SFP

china is full of weird M.2 to ethernet adapters

[pseudo blade]

Advanced Biscuit Tin with Integrated PSU :P

But it does look very compact

Ideal for a router-like device as long as it's getting enough air

Oh I see fan cutout on the left, vents on right

[silent flax]

the CPU cooler pulls in air from top, the side fan pulls it out

[pseudo blade]

Yeah I went up and saw in another photo

[opal pagoda]

mpcie

[silent flax]

yeah, then you can use the one i bought 😄

[opal pagoda]

nah i wont be using it for routing

[silent flax]

but yeah, at inaudible fan speeds the CPU is idling at 46C, and more or less never does more than idling 😄

(46C being the hottest cores)

there was one single peak to mid-60C in last week or so, i think i was rebooting, so it did some work to start up all the docker containers for few seconds

[opal pagoda]

yea but where do i put cable?

[silent flax]

drill. or custom top

the classic 🙂

[opal pagoda]

originally i ment to put a 2x sata controller there and print custom bottom for it that has hdd cages and a fan for them but i found a deal on externals so no mods were neccesary

[silent flax]

or to stay in topic

[opal pagoda]

cpu power consumption doe 💀

[silent flax]

both my i5-3470 router and 2950x server usually stay bellow 5% of CPU usage 🤷‍♂️

[opal pagoda]

i am running multiple containers and cpu is really low power

[pseudo blade]

You generally don't want to be maxing the CPU on your router ever

Getting close is a recipe for latency problems

[silent flax]

who says anything about maxing out. All i say that it barely does anything, at all. even with few docker containers running

[pseudo blade]

This is why Cisco kindly provided turnips to run their router OS on in SME

[pseudo blade]

You were saying you were around 5%. I said that going very high is bad news. Not sure what you're suggesting.

I didn't say you were maxing out your CPU, certainly.

[pseudo blade]

Yeah my work hypervisor (Dell Optiplex 7090) sits around 30 watts and while that beats the pants off a HPE Proliant or the like it's not as efficient as a low-power CPU like that

[opal pagoda]

for what i need my home server for that low power cpu is perfect, only thing that i would swap is 4gb ram for 8gb stick

but it needs to be ddr3l

[pseudo blade]

I got offered an ML350 Gen10 for AUD$1000 (like $660 USD) today but I already have a Gen9 I don't use I got for free

[silent flax]

i have a jetway mini PC like this with N2930, that was my router before this. Sure, it sits at 10W, but it has it's limitations

[pseudo blade]

And that Optiplex, that has 80GB RAM and like 40GB free

[opal pagoda]

optiplexes are op

[pseudo blade]

So it makes no sense to not stick everything I want on that

[silent flax]

the biggest limitation was the storage aspect of it; it has mSATA, for which any reasonable capacity is stupidly expensive (i ain't paying 100 euros for a 500GB mSATA SSD)

[opal pagoda]

i know a guy who has so many hp sff in a cluster
like atleast 20

[pseudo blade]

I have 3 I did that for a uni class with

But they only have 16GB RAM in

[silent flax]

sometimes you have to wonder about aliexpress 😄

[pseudo blade]

Looks like a pretty typical router board to me

[silent flax]

yeah, but still 🙂

[pseudo blade]

2 modems, M.2 storage, I think that's a switch chip on there for the ethernet ports

No heatsink so gigabit probably

[silent flax]

or here is 12th/13th gen board

6* Intel I225-V/I226-V for Gigabit LAN

[pseudo blade]

The most recent one yes probably

The one above that looks to have some Marvell chip I bet is a switch

Hard to tell from the pic exactly

[silent flax]

the green board has:

2 Intel WGI210AT Gigabit Card, supports network wake-up, PXE function
2x Intel WGI210IS Gigabit Fiber Card

[opal pagoda]

yea one port on the left is "wan" others are run of switch chip

[silent flax]

top down picture is not helping much either

[pseudo blade]

It scales to 128GB RAM, 2 NVMe SSDs plus disks, and 8 cores in a homelab is enough for anything

[pseudo blade]

Usually they're nice enough to expose the switch's management so you can do whatever with the individual ports anyways but yes clearly aimed at WAN on the individual port

[opal pagoda]

if i had higher network speeds maybe i would be able to use that

[pseudo blade]

That's running... 9 VMs right now

[opal pagoda]

do you expose any services to public?

[pseudo blade]

2 Windows 11, Server 2022, Red Hat 9, Ubuntu, 4 custom work Linux thing

Not presently but I might later

Only got it last week

[opal pagoda]

i use cloudflared to tunnel home assistant and some other things to public

cgnat things

[pseudo blade]

Might put a MC server on for some friends, move a few bots on to it. Nothing I couldn't have done on a Pi 4 honestly but this is right here

[opal pagoda]

i have a vps to do that

[pseudo blade]

I have VPSes for stuff I intend for the general public to get at, two t3.nano's

But cloud providers charge too much for decent CPU and memory and this is right here

[opal pagoda]

i still have always free oracle arm instance

based af

[pseudo blade]

I don't trust Oracle

I can't trust Oracle.
Too much bullshit.

[opal pagoda]

i trust them only to run mc server and shitposting bot

[pseudo blade]

I hear their free tier is super generous but I despise the company's software licensing (and legal) arms too much to trust their cloud

[opal pagoda]

i wouldnt put any personal information on there

[pseudo blade]

I refuse to use Azure for myself since being ripped off on pricing once and trying to contact their support over it

Google and Amazon are both much more reachable

[opal pagoda]

i would probably use hetzner

[pseudo blade]

Not ideal for Australian use

[opal pagoda]

yea but for europe its ideal

[pseudo blade]

For global but personal services maybe

Bots and shit