audio-tech

[sleek lily]

If I’ve misunderstood something, point to the exact claim and evidence. Happy to correct it. Otherwise, let’s keep it to the data. 👍

[white gate]

I have done so repeatedly in past conversations to no avail. Hence my unwillingness to engage further.

[sleek lily]

For anyone interested in the technical side: please look at the data, papers, and math already posted and evaluate the claims based on that.

I’ve been approaching this from a technical and open-minded standpoint, and I’d prefer to keep the discussion focused on the data and reasoning rather than personal comments and fallacies.

[lone flame]

reading and understanding are 2 different pair of shoes

imo golden has explained it so easly that (sorry to say that) a 5 year old could understand.
why can't you?

[sleek lily]

This is starting to drift into personal remarks rather than the technical discussion. If there’s a specific error in my reasoning or data, please point it out so we can address it.

[lone flame]

thing is. he told you so much in the past, you weren't able to understand him

he told you like in this convo WHY they are minimum phase systems

but no matter what he says (also stuff in the past) you are not even trying to understand what he tries to explain

[sleek lily]

@lone flame I'm not going to go in a circle, and I don't want the chat devolving. I'm just going to ask you a question I want you to reflect on. What do you think minimum phase means, and what do you think I am technically wrong on.

Simply stating something without scientific backing or understanding unfortunately isn't evidence in itself, even if I've been open minded enough to state that I'm not going to dismiss the premise.

[lone flame]

why should i answer it? it's literally up there

FR and Phase are linked

[sleek lily]

Yep, you're on the right track.

They are, through a hilbert transform, magnitude response can derive the minimum phase portion of phase.

[lone flame]

i have never seen nulls on headphones as example

you can fix peaks and dips with EQ

(as long as THD won't be a problem)

[sleek lily]

But as we see here, that's not the whole phase. For much of the frequency range on every headphone measured, the all pass actually overtakes the minimum phase component.

[sleek lily]

I think that you're thinking of something entirely different. You were on the right train of thought though earlier.

[lone flame]

and the measurements are from what exactly

[sleek lily]

This paper

I have a tldr of this all here too

[lone flame]

won't put all hope in one paper

also it's 13 years old. within that time alot happened

[sleek lily]

Physics experienced on earth and the definition of minimum phase haven't changed...

I also linked a number of other papers

Which I recommend reading

@lone flame What do you think minimum phase means to you?

Like how would you define it

Because that might be where you're confused. The definition isn't too easy to understand, so it's not too uncommon for it to be misunderstood.

[lone flame]

maybe

but golden knows it better than me. WAY better, same for DMS.
they WORKED in that field before (collabs or own projects) and also have talked to pretty famous people in audio science like Sean Olive iirc

[sleek lily]

I wouldn't trust that others inherently know it off of their authority alone. I especially wouldn't assume their assertions must be true off of that. If you would like, I can try to explain where the confusion lies if you let me know what you think minimum phase means.

[lone flame]

thing is. somehow they are able to explain stuff that makes sense to me. you are not. same for Jackson

[white gate]

You don't need to trust any authority figure, as mentioned 123981581236727 times above you can literally check this yourself with REW and a crappy flatplate setup

[sleek lily]

More sense doesn't inherently mean more accurate. This is why I think it's important to approach things from a more technical stance.

Like the analogy I gave before

[lone flame]

techical stances are useless if people will not understand

and read what golden said.

no need for me to do any explainings or so

(bcs i suck at it lol)

[sleek lily]

That's why I am trying to figure out what level you understand it at, so I can try to simplify the concept.

[sleek lily]

I actually wanted to talk about the technical side with him, but he hasn't given a technical point. He keeps trying to devolve the discussion to "I can't discuss this with you because (some fallacy)" . I don't want to discredit him, but I don't appreciate that level of derailing.

And like I said prior, I'd actually love for him to give technical takes for me to interact with. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe he is. Fallacies won't tell anyone anything either way.

[lone flame]

idc who is in the right or not. it's just that how he explains stuff is easy to understand and makes sense

he has trustful evidence, own tests etc etc

and he is not the only one that disagrees with you

[white gate]

^^

^^

^^

^^

[sleek lily]

I won't name names, but someone in audio essentially disagreed with me on the existence of derivatives. If a single point could have different behaviors dependent on its tangent line. This doesn't mean derivatives don't exist and math is wrong, but it's a difference in level of understanding. The idea of pretending they don't exist is however more simple, because it's a calculus free view. I think this actually helps to make this idea really clear.

[lone flame]

golden marked some messages

and IF the MiniDSP Ears Pro are legit

i may get my own rig so i can start measure headphones too

[sleek lily]

Like the paper found. All headphones measured showed all pass phase, meaning they all exhibited phase not derivable from magnitude response (excess phase).

[white gate]

We're going to be testing it on The Headphone show. I imagine DMS will be taking a look at it too.

It certainly looks like it's going to be a huge improvement over the original MiniDSP ears (cause quite frankly that thing was horrible in so many ways), but remains to be seen how close the couplers and/or pinna match a GRAS KB5000 setup for instance.

I don't think they actually state what pinna they're using

[lone flame]

Oratory will get a unit from them

[white gate]

But also, for about the same price you can get a clone GRAS rig

[lone flame]

he said maybe before chinese new year or so

so maybe within the next 4 weeks

[lone flame]

i also looked into a clone but. lot of aliexpress links are not aviable in germany, and you have to order so much seperate stuff 😅

the Ears Pro would be WAY easier compared

just have to pray that it's legit

bcs they haven't said what pinnae they use

[white gate]

I think the likely answer is that it'll be far more relevant to real people than the old one, but probably won't be using pinna that will allow results to be compared to existing KB5000 measurements

They don't specify the pinna design, just saying "Human-like soft silicone pinna".
Which would imply either it's their own design (most likely, and in which case results can only be compared to results from that same rig).
OR
They are KB5000 but they don't want to say as they're not technically licensed (very unlikely as legally this would be a nono)

Hopefully they will have an HRTF available to compensate to though at least

that'd make comparisons far more useful

[lone flame]

if it's NOT a KB5000 pinnae.
i hope you can mod it

[white gate]

Well, that's a possible other option, get it then replace with KB5000 pinna, but then again at that point just buy the whole clone rig and save yourself nearly a grand

[lone flame]

it is not a KB5000.
i just compared the images

the shape is different

[lone flame]

where can i buy the whole clone rig?

i tried to find it but links are not aviable here

[white gate]

I'm not sure what the correct one is

@loud spear is the best person to ask

[sleek lily]

The strict definition of a minimum phase system is that its phase is uniquely determined by its magnitude response via the Hilbert transform, which is equivalent to saying the transfer function has no excess or all pass component. In system terms this assumes a linear, time invariant, causal, and invertible system with all poles and zeros in the stable region.
The headphone plus ear system does not strictly satisfy those conditions. It is not perfectly linear because drivers exhibit intermodulation, compression, and level dependent behavior. It is not time invariant because seal, fit, and temperature change the transfer over time. Causality and stability are mostly satisfied, but the ear, pad, and enclosure introduce reflections and resonances that create frequency dependent delay rather than a single uniform time shift. The invertibility and minimum phase condition also breaks because those reflections, leakage paths, and geometric interactions create excess or all pass phase that is not determined by magnitude alone.
Also, zeros here do not mean crossing the x axis on a plot. They refer to zeros of the transfer function, points in the s or z plane where parts of the signal cancel. Real acoustic paths such as front and back radiation, reflections, and cavity interactions create those cancellations and associated phase rotations.
So matching magnitude alone does not guarantee the full time and phase behavior is identical.

I'll refer back to the rest in a second.

[sleek lily]

I think this is addressed by the last message. Asserting they are minimum phase does not actually bend the definition to apply to them. Like I said prior, I believe this assumption comes from a misuse of a simplification.

This is actually true. Excess phase is directly related to group delay, but it is not the same as magnitude response for the aforementioned reasons.

I'm sorry this wall seems like a gish gallop, but it was sort of a response to a sort of gish gallop. I hope from this point on we can actually keep things technical though.

[loud spear]

I don't like throwing good time after bad, so for the audience more than anything, consider this: the paper in question specifically cites the (in)audibility of measured allpass components of free field HRTFs with a similar methodology.

Given that headphones cannot cause an allpass component while not being present, I think it follows fairly clearly from here. Having measured a great number of headphones, I have not observed large allpass phase outside of very high (>10khz) frequencies

[night plume]

facepalms just no https://youtube.com/shorts/o2FBCgsFOYQ so bloody wrong

[lone flame]

do you have a link for a GRAS clone rig?

[robust prawn]

why did earbuds even become the norm

overars actually fit on peoples ears unlike earbuds

and they're just better

[sleek lily]

I have read that paper and it does not support the claim that headphones cannot introduce all pass phase or that it is universally inaudible.

The paper explicitly states that headphone transfer functions measured at the eardrum contain all pass phase. It says “All subjects have all-pass phase in their headphone transfer functions” and also notes that “we found all-pass phase in the headphone transfer functions… it has consequences for the temporal performance of equalized headphones.”

It also explains the mechanism clearly. It says that this behavior is due to “the multi-pathed nature of the sound transmission to the eardrum, where reflection and diffraction delay the sound.” That is exactly a multi path acoustic system, which by definition can create excess phase even with a single driver.

The audibility result they reference for HRTFs is conditional. It concerns presenting the all pass component together with its corresponding minimum phase component in a matched binaural HRTF context. That is not the same situation as arbitrary headphone induced phase differences interacting with an individual’s HRTF.

The paper even notes cases where the all pass behavior lies in audible regions, stating “Clearly lying in the audible region, the design of the TBone is not optimal.”

So the relevant question is still quantitative. Human ITD sensitivity is on the order of ten microseconds. To claim inaudibility in headphones, the excess group delay or phase deviations at the ear would need to be shown to fall below those perceptual timing thresholds. If that is the claim, it needs to be demonstrated directly for headphone transfer functions rather than inferred from a different HRTF condition.

[night plume]

Earbuds are better for traveling then standard headphones. I own a pair of audio technica ath-m50x paired with a FiiO dac attached to my desktop but I won't be taking that setup around with me to attach to mobile devices a pair of wired or wireless earbuds are better for that then the big bulky wired setup and that is the ONLY reason they came to be the norm. Aka better for moving around and most people are now no longer sitting at their desk doing a 9-5 job like in the past

[lean grove]

smaller. cheaper. and earbuds do fit in people's ears.

you might be like me and have weird ears and everything falls out all the time

[livid ruin]

people should start wearing full size speakers on their heads aimed at their ears

🧌

[lean grove]

https://www.pud.com/

take your pick

[livid ruin]

deez

and the cork headphone

[zenith pawn]

is this the helmholtz resonator guy

BASED

[lone flame]

his headphones where not bad right?

i know that they look very unique but iirc he really looks into the tuning

[white gate]

Honestly aside from a 1khz bump they're pretty decent 😛

[lone flame]

someday i want to listen of some pudphones 😄
espacially with the bass medaillon xD

atleast he is one of the few people actually looking into what he is making 😄

[chrome imp]

KEF spotted W

[daring tide]

Can someone link me a decent mic and headphone combo. I have a zen dac, pref around 100-300 total if possible

[glad creek]

I'm clearly out of the loop for desktop stuff nowadays

Is the Topping MX3s a good idea ? For 240eur

For someone that has small bookshelves speakers, needs a headphone out (but don't really use it so it really just needs to be a serviceable one) and would be happy with a SUB OUT

I'm more talking about reliability, I'm pretty sure that sound quality wise it will be far from enough (well, i guess), and power wise too for near field listening in a small office room

It's for the birthday of a close friend

Topping is usually nice, but they did have some quirks reliability-wise on some products (I remember the topping L30 having problems for example)

And this specific product didn't gather a lot of attention, though it does seems to do a lot at an affordable price

[lone flame]

dx5ii costs a bit more and is "better" imo

you have build in PEQ etc

[glad creek]

He needs a speaker amp not a headphone amp, though he also needs a serviceable headphone output but he uses his headphone 0.5% of the time

[lone flame]

ah

mx3s should work then

[brisk topaz]

are the moondrop space travels still the default for a sub £30 tws?

[warm scarab]

there is the space travel 2 now

[brisk topaz]

is it any different/better?

[warm scarab]

better bluetooth codecs

id advise it

[warm silo]

https://www.tomshardware.com/speakers/in-a-blind-test-audiophiles-couldnt-tell-the-difference-between-audio-signals-sent-through-copper-wire-a-banana-or-wet-mud-the-mud-should-sound-perfectly-awful-but-it-doesnt-notes-the-experiment-creator

[zenith pawn]

was there a wire inside the banana/mud? how did they get a signal through it at an audible level?

[lean grove]

High enough voltage and you'll be able to get a signal through anything.

[zenith pawn]

Assuming that's not what they did

[lean grove]

https://youtu.be/_bV1sfQQkZY

might be more conductive than i thought

though i would still assume you'd need to adjust the gain

[keen shale]

Planning on getting the rode podmic USB, is it worth getting the official pop filter or should i just get a random offbrand on amazon or something

[high patio]

Just get an off brand. Foam is foam

[sleek lily]

^

[daring tide]

Looking for headphones + a mic, My house burned down a couple months ago and just now recovering, Friend wants me to do some small voice work for his indie game and offered to buy me both, budget is around 200-300 USD for both, Any suggestions? I have an ifi zen DAC, I was looking into this but unsure
https://a.co/d/0jjDxAkH

[thin void]

the 2020 USB is a fine mic. Nothing to complain about there

[daring tide]

the one ones im seeing is thsat bundle unfort, maybe ill cop it and upgrade the headphones later

[thin void]

I personally would just get the mic used on ebay

the 2020-usb has been out for ages

theres lots of used ones

[daring tide]

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m74724316078/?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=23328747741&utm_content=t0&adgroup=&network=x&device=c&merchant_id=154042365&product_id=m74724316078&product_id=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23328750405&gclid=CjwKCAiAwNDMBhBfEiwAd7ti1KfkZSGj9yvzVcZ0g51Epw-fThXX9dsDWYOlAARcwSpMbVpkys3AQhoCmmUQAvD_BwE

i see this for 80 seems good

suggestions on a decent pair of headphones?

[thin void]

im not familiar with this site personally

[thin void]

depends, whats do you ahve currently and what do you not like about them?

[thin void]

also: 1- Budget 2- Open or closed back 3- use case?

[sleek lily]

https://youtu.be/DpGU8NARX-s?si=ljiS4NzmkcYAvL_6

I think this video is a good watch for all of us in this hobby. I think it does a great job at allowing reflection. 9:00 is the timestamp I think I linked, but I recommend watching the whole thing.

I think it's all too common for people to become engulfed in the way they want things to work, to the point it becomes rare in this hobby and others for people to go back to the drawing boards and think "that's a good point, let me do some research on that".

But overall I think it's a good watch.

[daring tide]

I have nothing, i was only able to save my computer + monitor from the fire, i wasnt fast enough to grab everything else, Budget is around 100-150 usd for headphones, open are cool, Music/discord mainly.

[vapid apex]

thoughts on this? i wanted to keep it under 300

i currently have an elgato wave dx + linsoul kz zs10 iems and honestly theyre underwhelming.

I have a focusrite solo3 for my xlr interface + headphone connection

any help is appreciated, thanks!

[zenith pawn]

Bros starting to gain self awareness?

[worn prawn]

how do we get logitect 432 to fit corry i seme to have issue with them fit i thoug they were good headphone

[lean grove]

Why is your mic setup twice as much as your audio setup

[vapid apex]

because i felt $100 would be good for iems over my current ones, i needed a new boom arm and i havent had a pop filter so i decided to get that too

[worn prawn]

Wow that all so pricy mine only cost 50$

[vapid apex]

i just wanted to get something one time that would last a while, and i wanted to be satisfied with it

[worn prawn]

What about my question

I am just looking for headphones that work and don't squeeze my head so much or fall off

[lean grove]

Fair enough.

The iems might not like the interface. Be sure to check the impedance of the iems and the output impedance of your interface

Audio interfaces usually have a higher output impedance and that can do weird things to some types of IEMs

[glass vessel]

holy TOK 😭

[proud trail]

Hey gang, do we know anything about the TDM headphones? I'm trying to find more info on their specs, but I can't find much

[analog field]

the neo hybrid ones? they have a crazy 200 hour battery life

[proud trail]

I saw that, what about weight tho, volume, noise cancelation yada yada yada

[analog field]

around 350g and no anc just passive isolation, anyone ever used those hybrid headphone speaker things before

[proud trail]

Ughhhh, I'm thinking of buying them, but I'm not that sure about their actual quality

[analog field]

yeah hard to tell, usually hybrid stuff ends up being mid at both things

[proud trail]

Of course I'm not looking for the best audio etc, if that was the case I could save some bucks and buy pure headphones, but I like having "weird" tech. I have a nothing phone and considering my next phone to be a CMF for example

And those headphones are a cool party trick

[lean grove]

Looks like Kickstarter slop

[proud trail]

That's why I'm skeptical

[analog field]

tdm neo is 330g with no anc, great battery but maybe skip for commuting

[sleek lily]

The video basically reminds us that science is more than just laying down a claim, or being right or wrong. Instead, it is having models that others might disagree with, listening to why they disagree, explaining why we disagree with theirs, and eventually coming to a census as all parties learn from each other.

[lean grove]

It's a big decision to have a pair of headphones include a pair of speakers as well. And that to me seems like a gimmick.

When you design something to be two different things, more often than not it becomes a worse version of those two things.

[lean grove]

Nah turn it into a speaker when you're on the bus or train

Perfect commuting headphones. Make everyone listen to your shitty music.

[sleek lily]

This actually forces us to adapt our understanding and do research, instead of just clinging to what supports our beliefs and ignoring any holes.

A good example of this for me was when I first got into audio. At that point I thought the idea that everything reduces to frequency response was completely unfounded. I already knew that things like ILD, ITD, and channel interactions are well established in how we perceive sound. The counterpoint I was given was that those cues are already contained in the recording and therefore constant. That pushed me to look into whether anything outside the recording could still affect those cues.

After that, another counterpoint came up that even if those effects exist, they are not audible. Instead of just going back and forth, I started looking into the actual perceptual thresholds for timing and level differences. Through that process my own model evolved, entirely because other people disagreed with me and I took the time to investigate those disagreements.

If I had just stayed at “the science says ILD and ITD matter” and never engaged with those counterpoints, I would have left a big gap in my understanding and in my ability to explain more complete models.

Even in a separate discussion about magnitude versus full frequency response, someone pointed out that for minimum phase systems you can derive phase from magnitude using the Hilbert transform. Since I expected headphones to have excess phase, I looked into it more deeply and found that they are not strictly minimum phase. That also led me to look into where the “headphones are minimum phase” idea came from in the first place and how it evolved from a practical EQ approximation into a stronger claim. It ended up giving me a much clearer and simpler way to explain the distinction.

I hope more people in the hobby watch that video and use it as a reminder to keep refining their models. That mindset has helped me learn a lot.

And in the end, that's how we learn.

[warm scarab]

god made this headphone for puerto ricans

[fast coyote]

How good is FiiO's K11? I'm going to be getting into better headphones than just gaming headsets.

So I want a proper DAC and amp

[lean grove]

It's a very compelling option.

[fast coyote]

And not too expensive either from what I'm seeing.

[fast coyote]

As for headphones. DT 770 Pro X's are what I'm looking at.

[livid ruin]

why not sennheisers

[fast coyote]

Why not BeyerDynamic?

[livid ruin]

the treble is high

[analog field]

the pro x version actually smoothed that peak out a lot

[zenith pawn]

I want that treble that makes all the vocals sound like wind

[livid ruin]

it has a big 6khz peak

the rest is better yes but that 6khz which is the roughness you get in treble you don’t want peak there

[analog field]

fair, 6khz can be sharp but they're still great for imaging tbh

[fast coyote]

I can tolerate quite a lot in terms of high frequency.

[livid ruin]

the treble lacks fulfillness so it’ll just appear as a cheap headphone

if you don’t mind open backs get an hd560s

[fast coyote]

Closed backs are preferred tbh.

[fast coyote]

Open back though which means everything will leak in.

[livid ruin]

yes and out

[fast coyote]

Yeah no. I don't need people hearing my stuff (I live in an apartment with a brother who barges in unannounced)

And he blasts his music loud as well

[livid ruin]

fiio ft1

you said you don’t mind bit of higher treble

those can have some treble spikes depending on the track or unit

[fast coyote]

Those have been recommended to me before. Tempting. And the design looks nice too.

[livid ruin]

they’re miles better than the dt’s

[fast coyote]

And cheaper

[livid ruin]

unless you have ears really insensitive to treble

[fast coyote]

It depends on the track.

I listen to a lot of EDM mainly, though I've got stuff across the genre spectrum besides country and gospel. I also plan on playing games with them

Having closed back is kind of a necessity because of the aforementioned brother

[analog field]

yeah stick with closed back then, hearing someone else's music is the worst

[livid ruin]

though i’ll warn you that the fiio’s are indeed overhyped, take some time before you buy

but def don’t get the beyers if you can

[fast coyote]

Just making considerations for the future as right now I have no money 😂

[livid ruin]

oh, in a year we may have even better headphones

[fast coyote]

Maybe eventually I'll upgrade the mic but my Fifine K669 has been doing solid since 2020.

And it was only like $30

[livid ruin]

tbh that mic sounds like the highest quality phone mic

not a compliment btw but at the price okay i guess, i believe there are better options now

it just sounds too flat like the sub bass is lacking

[fast coyote]

That's fair. I ran it through NVIDIA Broadcast for noise suppression, and then ran that through Voicemeeter to bring out more lower frequency.

And at that point it's perfect. Maybe someday I jump up to a PodMic or AT2020.

And with it, up to an XLR interface.

But I'll keep this little Fifine around. Maybe for portable use.

[fresh basalt]

my son has an electric drum kit, it has a usb midi output that shows as a midi device when plugged into his laptop. does anybody know of any easy to use software that he can use to record from the midi device and play back what has been recorded? (doesnt need to be low latency, hes listening to the drum kit directly)..

[analog field]

reaper is usually the go to, is he trying to record the actual sounds too

[fresh basalt]

i tried reaper first (because i remember justin first starting to write it back when i worked on winamp), and i couldnt figure out how to get anything to play back

[analog field]

gotta load a drum vst on the track to actually hear it

[fresh basalt]

<<< bellend 😄

will have a go at that tomorrow when people are now sleeping 😄

my wife has gone to bed early, so hes not allowed on the drums now, and i dont want to face her wrath for saying he can attempt another recording 😄

[elder thistle]

I really want that one

it's said to have excellent imaging and resolving

probably more resolving than 560s 3rd gen

only one way to find out for sure of course

[livid ruin]

what does 3rd gen have compared to 2nd

[livid ruin]

which gen did they change pads and padding

[elder thistle]

all 3

[livid ruin]

which gen did they shorten the cable from 3m to 1.8m

[elder thistle]

first gen 560s had gen1 proprietary earpads that were not shared with any other earpads. this has no model number, and there are no stock replacements for this headphone

2nd gen had gen2 proprietary earpads, same situation. these were physically thinner, overall darker sounding, and put a spotlight on the non-revealing nature of the headphones. they changed the included cable to a 1/4" threaded jack instead of permanent

replacement earpads for the 560s were offered, but sennheiser was lying about them being the exact same earpads. the replacements are article 572287, for the hd559 and are significantly more sealed, leading to weird tonal changes

3rd gen 560s now uses a fabric/meshy foam for the headband cushioning, and the earpad texture is slightly fabric-y too. these are article 575209 earpads, which are an existing line of earpads not currently for sale. however, the brown variant of these earpads (forgot article number) seem to be the same thing. the sound is more of a return to the first gen 560s than it is the 2nd

I'm still a bit upset that this was all very neglected despite my warnings, and a lot of people have ended up with the wrong earpads

[livid ruin]

i have the 2nd gens i love them

[elder thistle]

I can't confirm that 3rd gen is the last version or not, but I haven't seen evidence for it

and of course different stores may have different gens being shipped all under the same name

[livid ruin]

i believe i’ve seen last batches of gen 2 selling in early-mid 2025 in most places

nowadays i cannot find the 3m ver anywhere

only used

anyways thank you for clarification

[cerulean hull]

hey guys im new here and i just wanted advise on a good microphone in a good budget

im currently looking at the https://www.amazon.in/HyperX-Solocast-USB-Unidirectional-Microphone-Hmis1X-Xx-Bk/dp/B08KFL3SFV/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?nsdOptOutParam=true&sr=8-1-spons&aref=ns4QvupBx6&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY

[charred gust]

Hey folks! looking for advice for a headphone buy
-$100 budget more or less
-NOT studio quality (theres a pair of AKG K361 for that)
-preferably wired
-preferably with mic (but not necessary)

main use is for gaming/media

as always any tips or suggestions appreciated and thanks in advance

[gleaming eagle]

$100 your only option to consider are the Kingston ones IMHO

[charred gust]

which kingston ones? for now i'm looking at the akg k240, and superlux hd660

[gleaming eagle]

HyperX Cloud Alpha - Gaming Headset

or

HyperX Cloud Flight 2 - Wireless Gaming Headset

I have a set of wired ones as backups to my ordinary headphones and had to use them for like 2 weeks and was not disappointed

Daily I use Sennheiser HD600 and Hifiman Arya Stealth

[charred gust]

going with the cloud alpha, its for $71
thanks for the advice snail

[livid hollow]

does anyone know where I can find a frequency response graph for the hyper X cloud 2 HP model specifically

most graphs show the kingston model before hp acquired hyperX

[fast coyote]

I can't seem to find one for the HP version.

But according to people online, it's worse

[fast coyote]

If you're looking for something in that price range, just go Steelseries. Apparently HyperX is going down to shit under HP

Wouldnt be the first time HP killed a company

[livid hollow]

I already have it

I just want to see it's graph for reference

[fast coyote]

Yeah. Nobody has made one as far as I can tell.

[livid hollow]

kinda weird ngl

dissapointing buy

ill get an upgrade once I save up

I am thinking getting hifi man sundaras

will they require an amp

[fast coyote]

Yeah. They're gonna want one.

Look into FiiO for those.

[livid hollow]

damn though an amp will take a chunk off my budget off

if they really do need an amp I might decide to pick something else

do amps affect quality or is it just volume

I wasn't able to get decisive information on this

[fast coyote]

They're not very sensitive headphones. An amp will improve overall frequency response by pushing more power. But make sure you have a DAC too. FiiO makes some combo units that are solid for the dough.

[livid hollow]

can you link budget options

or name

[fast coyote]

https://a.co/d/04LekaFT

[livid hollow]

I guess sundara will have to wait another month

[primal fulcrum]

[supple sand]

hey

im trying to get wireless headphones

smth around 200$ but not more

for 200 i was able to find refurbished Xm5s from amazon themselves

just wanted to hear you guyses thought on reccomendations and the xm5

[haughty girder]

What.

Steelseries was never better than hyperx lmao

[fast coyote]

Apparently now they are 😂

Because HyperX under HP has been declining in quality

[haughty girder]

apparently according to who

their headsets are still bad

mice are mediocre at best

keebs are also not it

if you're referring to the Cloud 2 yoke revision - that happened prior to the acquisition from Kingston to HP

HyperX Cloud/Alpha are still amongst the better tuned headsets.

Of course, none of them really beat out a proper headphone. Even a budget one like the FT1 (even if the treble is peaky)

but steelseries is just worse than hyperx full stop.

[haughty girder]

none of the sony WH-XM headphones sound "good". If ANC is your first priority then that's fine

[supple sand]

i js want loud headphones

i can listen to in school

during class when im allowed

doesnt leak much sound

[haughty girder]

I can't think of any headphone that can't blast your eardrums out and cause hearing damage

[supple sand]

and has great build quality thatll last 3-4 years at minimum

for around 200

[supple sand]

meh coming from earbuds

i js want smth loud

not like strapping a speaker to my head loud

[haughty girder]

loud is based on how high you turn the volume to

but

fair warning - please treasure your hearing while you can.

80db is plenty loud

[supple sand]

i am dw

[haughty girder]

and just about anything can hit 80db

[supple sand]

this is a lie

[haughty girder]

it's not a lie

[supple sand]

how

[haughty girder]

did you measure their loudness?

[supple sand]

they sound wayyy too quite compared to my old crusher 2s

[supple sand]

if u count comparission yeah

those buds 2 pros sound so muffled

compared to the anc 2s i returned

[haughty girder]

okay so, volume is not linear, it's logarithmic

[supple sand]

or my gaming head set

[supple sand]

ok

lemme rephrase my request than

i want smth that is similarly loud to the crusher anc 2s

[haughty girder]

what happened to protecting your hearing and you wanting to blast 100db into your head

[haughty girder]

buds 2 pro are actually tuned properly

[supple sand]

i didnt really listen to everything at max vol with my anc 2s

[supple sand]

yeah but they are too quite

its like someones js talking to me

[haughty girder]

with a proper ear gain region and a non-inflated bass shelf

okay so what I'm seeing is that you've already destroyed your hearing lmao

[supple sand]

so alr whats a good wireless headphone with preferably big earcups or very smooth ones

[haughty girder]

if you liked crushers, get the XM5s

[supple sand]

not really my hearing is at a normal level

[haughty girder]

they're equally bassy and equally shit sounding

[supple sand]

i didnt like em for 1 reason

the bass is too much

and u can feel its fake

also earcups were too small

[haughty girder]

no it's not

[supple sand]

and hurt my ears lit 10 mins after using them

[supple sand]

💀

also i might have a bad batch of buds 2 pros

cuz they broke a week ago

thats why im trynna find a good replacement

[supple sand]

only a year after buying them

never dropped them

never contact with water

cleaned them regularly

[haughty girder]

if it's at normal level you would be able to tell that all headphones get plenty loud

[supple sand]

lemme put it this way

[haughty girder]

if they're not getting loud enough, that's a you issue.

[supple sand]

i had older skullcandy earbuds

[haughty girder]

How often do you listen to ~90% and above?

[supple sand]

they sounded louder than my buds 2

[haughty girder]

Oh that's a different issue

[supple sand]

with headphones rarely

if never

earbuds

almost all the time

cuz they js aint loud enough

[haughty girder]

all drivers have sensitivity

how many decibels per milliwatt of power

[supple sand]

idk

i really enjoyed the loudness of the skullcandy crushers at like 60-70 percent tho

i never went higher than that

it js lacked the comfort i needed

[haughty girder]

how loud a driver can get is a product of the amplifying stage's total power output*driver sensitivity

while taking into account max excursion of the driver

[haughty girder]

100db/mw or 100db/v?

[haughty girder]

yeah so if the b2p (I'm also not sure what's the source of that) have a 92db/mW lower sensitivity, it's going to be quieter at the same power

[supple sand]

only says this on their website

Sound Pressure Level: 100±3dB@1khz

[supple sand]

crusher anc 2

[haughty girder]

I don't buy skullcandy - they're all bad

[supple sand]

sound quality yeahh

[haughty girder]

I use Galaxy buds FE for transit, but you have to treat TWS as consumables

[supple sand]

did i enjoy listening to shitty mudsic with them yeah

[supple sand]

they were uncomfy asf tho

i returned them a week later

[haughty girder]

Anyways if you want slightly less bass than the skullcandies then XM5 are right up your alley

[supple sand]

thats why i was thinking about the xm5s

[haughty girder]

I hate them

[supple sand]

do you think theyll be comfier

[haughty girder]

but they're fine

probably

I tried a pair of crushers like 10 years ago and the earcups were practically on-ears

[supple sand]

like is the earcups big enough or soft enough

[haughty girder]

comfort is subjective

[supple sand]

gang mines were cloth but they were soo hard

it lit js hurted

[haughty girder]

why not just head to the store and try em out first?

[supple sand]

I did try the xm6s

they fitted well

but i didnt have enough time

so i might js buy the refurbished xm 5s

and test em out for a week

if i enjoy em ill keep em if not ill js return it

[haughty girder]

yeah go do that

[supple sand]

first i need the money tho

lol

i might try to sell my backbone

ion use it i bought it using the money i got from returning my crusher anc 2s

[supple sand]

quick q

i was also looking at the Momentum 4s

what do u thiink about those

[haughty girder]

fine if you use bt, not good if wired

or, fine if it's on, bad if it's off

[supple sand]

better than the xm 5s

[haughty girder]

I'd say so

sound wise at least

[supple sand]

also 30 bucks cheaper

hmmm

there is also bose 700

for 50 dollars cheaper

wait there are px 7s for 70 dollars cheaper

[daring stirrup]

Got my new sub and I don’t think my amp can power it or something 🥀

sad times

[fast coyote]

I could play full size chess on that mfing subwoofer

[astral urchin]

I just got the Sony WF-1000XM5 but they move around too much in my ear with every tip and the ANC picks up the sound of it moving making it impossible to wear, so im looking for alternratives
Should I get the Sennheiser MOMENTUM True Wireless 4 or the Bose QuietComfort Ultra Earbuds (2nd gen)?

[livid ruin]

try ugreen max5c if you don’t mind smaller pads

don’t expect good anc though

[astral urchin]

need good ANC tho

[livid ruin]

if you want the best consumer grade anc then xm6

[livid ruin]

btw watch your surroundings and don’t get ran over by a truck

[astral urchin]

those are 300 and I have the budget of the Bose QC ultra earbuds (so around 220)

[livid ruin]

bose is bad

you gotta pay more for their decent audio gear

[astral urchin]

yeah but id pay just for the comfort

and that I dont hear any rattling when moving like with the xm5

[livid ruin]

the comfort is preference

i don’t overall like the direction bt headphones go with the pads

[astral urchin]

like over ear?

[livid ruin]

if you want good anc the xm6 are also better built than the xm5

[livid ruin]

yes

[astral urchin]

nah need in ear

[livid ruin]

ohhh i misread all of the models you listed for some reason

yeah i’m not expert in anc earbuds

i’ve always found passive plenty

mb

[astral urchin]

ehh passsive isnt doing much for me

[supple sand]

is this a good buy?

[livid ruin]

probably not

do you like a lot of bass and bright headphones

[supple sand]

yes

[livid ruin]

there is also ugreen max 5c but it’s not as bright but costs a fraction

[supple sand]

what about quality wise tho

like built quality

n features etc

[livid ruin]

it’s ok, small earpads

[livid ruin]

basic anc, pretty much not good

[supple sand]

ok wont work for me

i need big earpads

the last smaller ones i got with the skullcandy crusher anc 2 made my ears hurt soo much even after 20-30 mins of usage

[livid ruin]

the px7 are also not big and would barely fit as medium pads

[supple sand]

they def seem bigger than the Crusher anc 2s tho

[livid ruin]

they’re still smaller than something like momentum 4

which are most things considered medium size

[lone flame]

would go for moondrop edge

good tuning, PEQ and yeah

[supple sand]

They look good

Ill watch some videos on em

And see if they are a good choice for me

[haughty girder]

terrible anc tho

[fast stratus]

Max5c is lowkey the budget goat.

My brother has one, he got it after asking my opinion on good budget options.

Takes eq well too which is nice.

I personally have to get something with at minimum 8/10 comfort though.

The earcups are a bit small imo.

[fast stratus]

HyperX Cloud 3 S wireless if you need comfort, it has decent tuning dw.

Like if comfort is a stringent requirement.

I have big ears.

[fast stratus]

I can't imagine ever buying a PX8 S2 if it is anything similar.

I had problems with the HDB 630 which is a little bigger than the momentum.

[fast stratus]

Same target, but different measurement rig than the one shown for the PX7 S2.

[snow sedge]

Hello! I'm a pretty techy person but never got too deep into audio stuff. I personally have a Fiio K3 and basic open backs, and I really enjoy the setup.

My girlfriend is a musician and really enjoys music but has 0 equipment to listen to high quality stuff. I wanted to gift her a portable setup she can take on the go, so IEMs and a usb c DAC. I've been looking at options, and I know it's very subjective, but there seems to be a consensus that these are pretty good. If you've heard otherwise or have recommendations in this price range please any advice would be appreciated.

I'm looking to spend around 50€ total (we're both students so no high budget)

She also goes everywhere with a purse so no over ears yet (Probably a future gift or something, wanna start little by little)

[shadow stag]

how long can a speaker handle a constant audio load at the limit?

[livid ruin]

check out jcally jm20 max it’s like 20€ w coupons

[livid ruin]

i tried them too

they were barely ok for me

maybe not ok with long sessions

[lone flame]

at what limit

[shadow stag]

their capacity

[lone flame]

well. depends on how much juice they get

normally if you don't hear obvious distortion there shouldnt be an issue

but when it breaks?

[shadow stag]

when does it break usually?

[lone flame]

if you hear distortion

lower the volume

that's all

distortion sounds "buzzing" or Crackling

it can also make "pop" sounds or like "clack"

ok "clack" is worse

mostly excursion issues (coil hits the magnet)

[strange lark]

What is a good Budget (Under $100 usd) Headset that is good for both Gaming, Music, and Media?

[past gate]

at that price you might as well look into iems tbh

[thin void]

do you mean like their rated wattage?

[shadow stag]

no, the sustainability of load for long times

[thin void]

most speakers have a rating for RMS (continuous load) and Peak. Both in watts.

Thats what I would pay attention to

[shadow stag]

hmm i see

but after how long they usually break or degrade?

[thin void]

Realistically a well designed speaker should be able to maintain its "RMS" rated power load for a REALLY long time.

[thin void]

depends on the materials. There's still speakers from the 80s that are in great shape, and some from 5 years ago that are turning to dust

foams used in older bose products, car stock speakers, etc generally degrade over time

[shadow stag]

of constant use

[thin void]

(the surrounds)

[livid ruin]

orange display name

[thin void]

That will 100% depend on the construction of the speaker, but a well designed speaker could run for absolutely ages at its RMS rating

[shadow stag]

rare sight, thanks for your time :3

i see, creative pebble pro for instance?

[thin void]

as long as you arent blasting it, I find it likely that the internal electronics would die long before the speaker driver

in that speaker specifically

[shadow stag]

hm

blasting as in overdriving it?

[thin void]

yeah pretty much. I mean nothing is guaranteed of course, but at healthy and reasonable sound levels I would think those drivers could out-last the more sensitive electrical internals

it entirely depepnds on what you need it for but there's definitely options out there if long term reliability is the primary goal, they just get more costly

[shadow stag]

fair

[thin void]

This isnt a result of a speaker being "cheap" btw. Ive seen a ton of cases where speaker drivers last longer than the electronics. Like in studio monitors for example

[shadow stag]

engineering nature?

[warm scarab]

congratulations on the marriage @thin void

[thin void]

really its just that a speaker is a very simple piece of gear, Its just a coil and a magnet, as long as the coil doesnt get too hot it keeps working. They're made for taking swings in voltage all the time. Small electronics, caps, etc are much more sensitive and degrade over years.

[livid ruin]

kinda off topic question DMS do you like Jim Yosef - Link?

[thin void]

thank ya! The lady is taking a nap at the moment haha

[thin void]

I havent heard that in a LONG time

[shadow stag]

nice

[livid ruin]

although someone will always find a way to mess up a driver... like cheaping out on the surround that holds the dust cap and it starts peeling off

[thin void]

oh yeah, seem a lot of that

every old set of bose speakers ever

[livid ruin]

rip

[livid ruin]

what's your personal favourite song/music rn

may i ask

[thin void]

hana vu - romanticism (great album). Also been listening to more Aphex twin lately. Spill tab, Wet leg, Wilt, woodkid, boko yout, a few others.

[livid ruin]

listening to it, liking a lot of it

[shadow stag]

how about battles or fuck buttons?

[tired spear]

Shiawase (VIP). Song used in Tidal Wave.

[livid ruin]

thx yall

[restive sigil]

im on a Duran Duran binge, real good on headphones o 3o

[white gate]

https://tenor.com/view/apex-aphex-twin-how-you-doin-limo-gif-8693134220717751114

[haughty crypt]

could anyone recommend me a good pair of headphones if im currently on the ath-r50x's but I want something around that price range that's closed back. I dont like that i can hear everything that's going on in my house but my biggest concern is comfort i need something I can wear for a lot of time

[brisk topaz]

does anyone have any recommendations for 2 pin cables without the ear hooks? the only options i’ve see are either £40+ (twice as much as the iems cost) or mmcx

[livid ruin]

budget?

[livid ruin]

you could make your own

[haughty girder]

Messages Xinhs on aliexpress and request no earhooks

you can do that with the cheapest cables he offers

oh also wait for March 1 so that the prices comes down

choose whichever cable look you like best, then request custom parts and earhooks/no earhooks

for example: I liked the cable on this but wanted different hardware. this is what I ended up getting

[haughty crypt]

160 usd

[livid ruin]

ft1 would be ok ig

@haughty crypt

[sleek lily]

My budget is 160 usc

United States cents

[thin void]

Thats a good answer, imo could use a capra strap too.

[daring tide]

https://www.newegg.com/p/0TH-004Y-00137

are these any good

[livid ruin]

absolutely not for that price if you care about neutral sound (for most people that is)

[sleek lily]

$233 is wild

[restive sigil]

in the audio hobby, 233$ is almost nothing.

[sleek lily]

It is wild for a random gaming headset though

[lone flame]

can confirm 😄

[haughty girder]

It ended up being more cost effective to cut up a piece of suede leather and design my own mounting point

but it works well enough I don't think it's missing out on much

[livid ruin]

i found ft1 to be enough comfortable on their own

[white gate]

Cries in head too massive to fit a capra strap on anything

[thin void]

https://tenor.com/view/agony-gif-23084585

[haughty girder]

It's alright - better with the lambskin pads, but it's definitely more comfy with a wider top strap

[fast stratus]

fr

I wish I had a smaller head.

Would've made finding comfortable headphones easier.

I could MAYBE fit a capra strap on mine if I tried, but it would be a very close fit.

[fast stratus]

HyperX Cloud 3 S Wireless is a much better headset in every way for a minor price difference.

Wait, $230 CAD???? NVM, The HyperX even beats it on price.

I personally would just get a wired Cloud 2 to save some money though.

Cloud 3 wired tuning is wack, don't get that.

[fast stratus]

This one probably has the best though.

[elder thistle]

thats not possible

you shouldnt say stuff like that when giving advice

[elder thistle]

they used to be popular amongst audiophiles, but that may be a bad thing. I have no idea how they sound

the headset that works best for you will depend on exactly whats playing on the headset, your goals/what you're trying to hear, and what you enjoy

without this, there's no bearing on what headset is desireable

at least sound-wise

and thats why quick advice that doesnt ask or listen to your circumstances is bad advice

this will heavily consist of 1-liners mentioning cloud 3s, cloud 2, or maxwell

[fast stratus]

From a pure features and technical standpoint, the Cloud 3 S is just a more practical purchase, especially when it’s quite a bit cheaper in this case. ($233.19 USD VS 179.98 CAD which is closing in on $100 USD in savings,)

As for some of the details I was too lazy to type out the first time, 3-5 times more battery life, you don’t have to use the dongle if you want to use it with your phone as a reasonable example (even though the supported codecs in that mode aren’t anything fancy), a better microphone that you can replace very easily, and relatively inoffensive tuning for most people. All of which make it worth considering over a model that, for the most part, isn’t even being sold anymore. (This is the original from 2019, not the Nova, there are other detriments that I'm unbothered to tell you about if you want to ask.)

I was exaggerating a bit when I said “in every way,” but it really isn’t worth considering that headset when you take a look at all of the specs and features between the 2.

I personally really don't like the bump around 100-300 that the Arctis 7 has, but that is preference.

Mud city imo.

Comfort might be a bonus, but the Cloud 3 S is already pretty comfortable.

[fast stratus]

Fair roast.

I did mostly just give quick advice without explanation.

I assumed the budget to be around the one they were asking about and thought that they favored the features included, so I recommended something based on that.

If you find the Arctis 7 wireless used on ebay for cheap though, there are tutorials on how to mod it to support USB C.

[elder thistle]

gaming headsets often have intentional tunings that boost some averaged frequency model of footsteps and clip reloads

that said, things like how resolving they are and what it's dynamics are like on the quiet end are bigger factors

and imaging of course

but this assumes someone wants to hear these cues and use them

not all games are competitive fps

and there's sound engine differences between fps games that make headphones more or less effective for each game. e.g a headphone great at cs2 cues (especially distance) is by nature not able to bring out certain sounds in apex

so even a $30 headphone can give more accurate distance judgements than an hd490 or something

though unless it's a tunical tnh101/lyxpro has15 or something, it's probably less resolving than the 490

I don't own the 490

3 560s's tho

[fast stratus]

I've heard good things about them, might snag a pair eventually.

I have mainly stayed to wireless through my time with headphones, so I should probably try to use an open back wired longer than a few minutes at an event.

Comfort is king for me, so if it doesn't fit nicely that would suck.
-# I have a massive head.

I really like my current headphones though, so that might be a long time from now.

[lapis pollen]

Hi i need some help to decide what headphone to buy currently iam using hyper x cloud x i have it for 4 years now and its time for a change, i have been searching on you tube for a budget entry level audiophile open back headphones and most of the videos i watches were recommending the Philips SHP 9500/9600 are they a good choice ? and how is the build quality ?

my budget is 100$ and i will mostly use them for gaming or listing to music

[lone flame]

Boosting steps will result in a muddy bloated sound

Just tune it neutrally (maybe some more bass or treble if you like) and hate the game for the shitty sound engine

I tuned my HD800s the de as my speakers (by ear) and there is nearly no game where steps are a problem for me

[thin void]

There's evidence to suggest a small increase in the low mids can help with footsteps, but most headsets overdo it. The bump there on HD6XX/or HD800S is MORE than enough to accomplish the effect.

[thin void]

I would skip the SHP, the build quality and sound quality are both pretty poor

that said at $100 there arent going to be many options unfortauntely. Maybe something on the used market?

[lapis pollen]

But why nearly every video I saw are saying it good entry-level open back headphones

Do you have any other recommendations ? Up to 170$ ?

[thin void]

People will unfortunately recommend literally anything they get their hands on despite what the data says.

[thin void]

You can get some used HD6XX on ebay for that.

here's a pair with 30min left at $123.5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/287148611662?_skw=HD6XX&itmmeta=01KJ903ATE95NFBTYXYXM054X1&hash=item42db64184e:g:KvcAAeSw2lNplQGV&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA4GfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDVit3J9z8WohpjeabJiU%2BDR0MECxTZXZEV0lG36nC1Y7GEt8riWDl1BkPgXXvih9Iz9XAKyBxq%2FFEBlxAiqUxlC0pKAqPP5HyWVuxiHMBQhenE6g0%2FumzGE2vlxl0M%2BgNJCqXqjwmzHZpPUXeHGTYSWB%2BQTYkuFhB7CieqUxNuKZA7h1Yd5ukDtnUg8GrdkT3q9SbIS7m1ZXLhPvA%2FQFNnox8RCpeAMt8oLl%2BvXdkM5bzWnKvmRGNw%2FJOtR5Ulvn0LU0ZlzZv8TqOeqNWciZzx|tkp%3ABk9SR7CujaCSZw

[lapis pollen]

Originally I was going to buy the hyberx cloud 3 but I saw a video saying that you should try the open back headphones so I thought to give them a try

[thin void]

a 6XX would be a pretty massive jump in terms of quality yeah

less bass, but much better over-all

The thing about them is that they dont surprise you at first, but after you use them for a day then try to go back to *anything * else it becomes clear how good the 6XX is.

or

if you want something with more "wow" factor you could get a used hifiman sundara on ebay

(the open back version)

if you really want something new, the Fiio JT7 is about 110 depending on where you buy it new and the JT7 is pretty stellar value

[lapis pollen]

I will give those a look as will

Thanks for the help glad I asked first before I bought the SHP

[thin void]

sho thing. happy to help 😄

[livid ruin]

Hd560s does the job for me as of gaming, although yes steps aren't as overblown on it which could give you some disadvantage if there's gunfire happening or ambient noises

You may also lose some of that average treble preference if you go with 560s instead of 6xx

in exchange you get a lil better sub bass tho

You could also experiment and import one of those hifimans that go for nice prices in china

but make sure to find information for your country abt taxes and customs duties

you don't want to import a $50 he 400se only to get taxed $30 and duties on top of that

[restive sigil]

Can someone give me suggestions for a DAC upgrade ? i've been getting a bit bored with my current DAC and im quite far away from affording a Weiss DAC501 ^^;

[zenith pawn]

apple usb-c to 3.5mm dongle

[thin void]

you're already kinda at dac endgame. your dac has EQ

If you're board. I would say play with the EQ, or swap headphones.

[elder thistle]

do you know which fgames or what music? anything you want to hear better, and any ideas what you dont like about the cloudx?

wouldnt cross off the shp just yet either

wait, do the new bee headphones actually use the same basket as the shp9500?

if it is though, the 9500 is doing a lot to compensate for such big pads

4x cost

[fast stratus]

SPL Phonitor XE and RME ADI-2 DAC fs are sexy.

[restive sigil]

Heya DMS, i was wondering. Do you think maybe swapping rme with SPL Mercury, Laiv DAC, or save a crap tone and get a Weiss DAC501 ?. As for headphones theres an audio show in my city in march. Im hoping to try the Head GT TWO, Meze Empy 2 or FA D8000 DC Pro. Ive enjoyed the Focal Utopias 1 and 2 in the past. But want to keep that as my "final purchase" before dipping out of the hobby to just focus on music and nothing else.

[restive sigil]

Danke o7

[supple sand]

Great headphones

but i want smth i can use outside

not js for gaming or for desk stuff

i saw Jakes video on the Hdb 630s

and i lit fell in love with those headphones

they look good, comfy

only issue is the price tho lol

500 bucks

[restive sigil]

https://spl.audio/en/spl-produkt/mercury/

https://weiss.ch/products/highend-hifi/dac501/

not sure which one x-x;

https://www.laiv.audio/harmony-dac

3 choices T-T

theres also the Titan

https://beta.prismsound.com/products/titan/

[fast stratus]

They are a bit small if you have big ears or a big head.

Sennheiser's app happened to be my best experience in any companion app even over Sony and Nothing though.

[supple sand]

yeahh i really want em lol

ig i might have to save some more during summer to buy em next fall

[fast stratus]

I bought the dongle separately for my Bathys MG because of how much I liked it too.

[supple sand]

beautiful headphones those are

[restive sigil]

thoes are the wireless ones right ?

[fast stratus]

Yes.

[restive sigil]

neats, im gonna be picking up the Lensys Pro to complement my Clear MG Pro ^^:

im wondering how the Bathys sound, i've previously had the Utopias and ive demod the Stellia

does it have the same warm thickness of the Stellia ?

[fast stratus]

You're in the CAG server, right? If you are in my area I'll let you try them.

[restive sigil]

MTL ?

[fast stratus]

Van

Rip

[restive sigil]

RIP lol

its ok, im going to the audio show in my city next month, Focal is always there. im friends with some of the salesman there :p i'll see if i can borrow one for the day

[fast stratus]

Try the Bathys and the MG after if you can double book a demo.

[restive sigil]

im not sure they're going to carry the OG Bathys, prob only the MG since its newer to push newer product.

[keen cedar]

Have any of you tried the Samsung galaxy buds 3 fe, and are they any good

Twist is they are 50% off

[restive sigil]

na, even for the discount its still caca i'd skip tbh

[keen cedar]

What would an alternative be

Don't want to spent that much on a pair of earbuds

[restive sigil]

depends whats a priority for you, ANC or Music ?

(im not mentioning battery because most earbuds have shit battery life and need to charge in the case atleast 2-3 times a day)

[lean grove]

Moondrop space travel 2

[keen cedar]

Don't think it's available in my region

[keen cedar]

Probably more towards anc than sound quality, but don't sound like absolute trash

Will mostly use them when I'm in school

[restive sigil]

get any Sony ANC earbud

and if thats too much, get the nothing ear earbuds

both have solid ANC

and "good" sound tuned for majority of consumers.

https://ca-en.nothing.tech/collections/audio

sony earbuds are more expensive than nothing ear

but, sony does offer better ANC

but the ANC on nothing is still pretty darn good.

[thin void]

You wont get any improvement for a nicer DAC honestly. I wouldnt stress on that. DACs are SO good these days that the headphone is pretty much all you're hearing. Personal opinion: Keep what you have and live in bliss! Is the show CanJam NYC?

[restive sigil]

yeah i always belived amplifiers and headphones make a larger impact on sound than dacs. but yeah headphone is pretty much the part that turns it actually into sound that hits your ear drums lol.

No its Salon Audio Montreal / Montreal Audiofest. https://montreal.audiofest.ca

they do the same in Toronto also

[thin void]

oh wicked! Ive not made it to the CA audio events yet

[restive sigil]

in the past the shows didnt have many vendors showing up (audio community in mtl is a bit smaller than Toronto or Vancouver) but now a days... wow even Weiss audio is coming, and other huge brands lol

[thin void]

my big go-to is I find its nice to have an open back and a closed back. Honestly these days the closed back gets the most use

[restive sigil]

they even had a Vendor with the full Abyss audio lineup.. ;) lol (i had some hot takes there demo'ing everything on their formula amps...ya...)

[thin void]

oh yeah audio shows have grown like crazy, when I started going 10ish years ago they were a handfull of people

[thin void]

hahaha

[restive sigil]

which one are you rocking ? i know with your stretchers (donno if you still rock em) fit can be a go to or na

[thin void]

oh! I took them out a few years ago!

but

E3

dan clark audio E3 is absolutely bliss for me, and with my open-canal mire measurements it measures basically dead-on when its on my head. Love it

[restive sigil]

interesting, not a fan of DCA (even tried Mr.Speakers stuff in the past), does Dan still tune by his ear preference ?

[thin void]

nah most of it is done with a 5128 these days. I like maybe 10% of his headphones

hate expanse

stealth is decent

E3 is perfect for me

[restive sigil]

ah ok, interesting.

[thin void]

i dont have my measurements on hand but heres the ASR squigs of E3

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/dan-clark-e3-closed-back-headphone-frequency-response-measurement-png.330968/

its a bit better on 5128

[restive sigil]

yeah, they can be hit or miss, i tried stealth, ether 2, voce. and i was like "hard pass lol"

[thin void]

yeah, stealth I find a bit shouty and darker in the upper treble

[restive sigil]

i'll have to try the E3, thanks for that man

[thin void]

sho thing

[restive sigil]

right now im aiming for Headd TWO GT, FInal Audio D8000 DC Pro and Meze Empy 2. im avoiding the Focal Utopia 2 (because i have alot of Focals already.... but who knows)

[thin void]

Empy 2 is very fun

as far as HEDD goes I would say the new D1 beats out the GT

[restive sigil]

yeah i demo'd it a while ago, wanna re-demo in march before i pull trigger

i'll keep that in mind, i kinda want it for the AMT tech behind it

[thin void]

valid

[restive sigil]

D1 is DD ?

[thin void]

yup. a crazy well designed one too with a low F-0

[restive sigil]

🤔 will have to investigate

appriciate all this knowledge man

[thin void]

happy to help

[lone flame]

Damn congrats.
I did a side by side with E3 and FT1. E3 Treble was just way better but I preferred the bass and mids of the FT1.
So far the FT1 is my number 1 pick for any closed back

I Want to measure my HRTF so bad xD
Also want a Mire setup but idk even where to ask or search lol

[livid ruin]

check out ft3 350ohm too

(although not closed back)

it goes for pretty cheap nowadays

roughly ft1 pro prices

[tidal estuary]

Hello, I have Bowers & Wilkins 2x 606 and a HTM6 center channel that I got a long time ago. My old receiver burnt up in a hurricane. Looking for some ideas to replace.

[sleek lily]

I found a short spatial audio paper by Ville Pulkki that I think is an easy and useful read. It explains that our sense of direction and space comes from several cues in the signals reaching the ears. These include timing differences between ears, level differences, the spectral shaping from the ear and head, and how coherent or diffuse the sound is.

The paper treats frequency dependent phase as part of timing, and shows with simple models and listening tests that keeping the directional and coherence information in the signal gives better spatial perception than using only linear spectral shaping. The examples are shown primarily with speakers, but the same ear signal cues are what all auditory systems deliver to the listener.

Overall it suggests that spatial perception may depend on more than just magnitude response, and that preserving the timing and coherence relationships between channels may matter for how we perceive space.

https://signalprocessingsociety.org/sites/default/files/Pulkki-waspaa-2017.pdf

[restive sigil]

https://youtu.be/ICUhu8obmvU?si=2ii9rTeMYAu3M9nQ

[zenith pawn]

flac is pretty good

[random temple]

idk why but my audio just bugged out so did everything else on my pc after 1m after restart everything stats to play slow both audio and video on some platforms games video acts fine but the audio is still robot like and slow

anyone able to hop in a vc and help out with this

[sleek lily]

Make sure nothing is overheated tbh

[lapis pollen]

For the games am playing rn
Csgo,warthunder l,fortnite, and FH5 and for the cloud x it has been good for gaming but for music some times when I increase the volume I feel like it's not that clear or a bit compressed

I was going to just buy the cloud 3 at first cuz I know they are pretty durable and sound decent but after I saw all the videos on the open back headphones I thought to give them a try where I live i found the cloud 3 for about 55$ usd and the SHPs for about 57$ usd both new

[elder thistle]

this is good info

[brisk topaz]

i just used a pair of pliers to pull off the ear hooks off my cables and tbh it was really easy

[white gate]

This has been well understood for a long time

It's part of why so many speaker systems struggle to produce soundstages that dont have weird presentations

[glossy obsidian]

anybody got a good reccomendatio nofr some headphone sthat have bluetooth and wired and sound good for like 100-200

[lone flame]

mostly there is NO good hybrid headphone

99% of the wireless headphones sound goot because of DSP tuning

so it's the software on the headphone itself that tunes it to sound good

if you would plug in a cable, you would here the original true sound that the headphone has naturally

[lean grove]

Ugreen max 5

Set it to jazz in the app and enjoy hifi for $40

[glossy obsidian]

is there a goid justr wireless one then?

[livid ruin]

midfi 🧌

[lean grove]

Hifi for Bluetooth headphones

[livid ruin]

i’m making a reference to when you call something so cheap hifi some don’t like that xd

[lean grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/382801814547988481/1249058609183330314/c5b_v.gif

[lost wigeon]

is there any reason i shouldn't buy this right now?
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Compass-Tube-Style-Microphone-Broadcasting/dp/B0BV8YBN8L

[lean grove]

3.7 stars is pretty low for Amazon. Check the reviews to see what they say

[fast stratus]

It's pretty good.

[fast stratus]

Because it's bad.

These reviews are crazy.

Doesn't keep its position apparently among other things like bad build quality.

[lost wigeon]

i used to have one and if you there's a torque screw on the bottom that you have to adjust for your microphone's weight. when you get it dialed it works great but im more concerned about the legitimacy of the listing seeing as they used to retail closer to $100. ended up getting the psa1 this time around

[daring tide]

Suggestions on a headset + mic for around 200-250 usd total

i have a Zen DAC If that helps any

[livid ruin]

have you seen cfm headphones pro

wireless headphones finally see a step up in the game

at this rate it’s going to be hard to recommend even sennheiser as corsair is seemingly cooling down drop (6xx) and 560s it’s pretty good in the treble but not perfect or equal for most vs 6xx

last thing i would like to improve on most anc headphones are the pads

i know they’re usually using pleather for better seals and acoustics which you want on anc headphine but i don’t think it excuses how small some of them are

like jbl tune 7x0 bt/anc series… the pads are not so comfortable as they overlap my ears

and 5x0 are really uncomfortable despite decent sound

max5c similar story, the pads could be bigger

on the cfm pro’s they’re sufficiently large i guess

haven’t tried those tho

[fast stratus]

Yes, haven't tried them though.

I've only tried the Nothing headphones.

[livid ruin]

didn’t try those either

[elder thistle]

I'm surprised you're seeing the shp9500 for that cheap. the shp is one of my favorites for cs2 because of how accurately it conveys distance and direction. similar situation for fortnite, though the game's sound engine is more limited

the main caveat with the shp's is probably the timbre / a kind of artificialness that can make real-life instruments sound grainy

I don't know what music you'd be hearing nor how fast it could overwhelm or not overwhelm the headphone's limits, but it's on-par with a lot of $50-80 headphones with how clear it keeps overlapping sounds

[lone flame]

i paid 30€ for mine

[stone quartz]

Those soft dome mid-range drivers are pretty

[haughty girder]

If you can use drop.com, PC38x is 150

[elder thistle]

does it rock

[stone quartz]

Not sure

Spotted them on ebay

[primal fulcrum]

Normalize combining having a huge subwoofer & using headphones at the same time.

[tired crown]

Hey there I’m looking for some overear headphones my budget is roughly $150 I want closed back and something that is durable for travel

[civic beacon]

If you're just beginning your search, I would start by reading some RTINGS, Soundguys, and Wirecutter reviews to get a feel for how to look for products that meet your needs, then go from there.

• https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/best
• https://www.soundguys.com/earbuds-headphones/
• https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/electronics/headphones/

[tired crown]

Aight thank you!

[white gate]

Rtings Just pay walled all their data :/

[civic beacon]

Oof. I see that. I can understand why, but also... sucks for consumers who need advice buying that one thing.

[tired crown]

yeah I just saw that

Makes it basically useless imo

[haughty girder]

well, seems like it's only the interpretations that are paywalled maybe??

ok nvm it seems that fr graphs are the only thing still there

[thin void]

and they're raw graphs against preference targets 🤢

[livid ruin]

did anyone archive their data properly?

their monitor reviews have been paywalled/membershipped as well

i would pay $10 if it was once and you get a lifetime access, but a subcription? no sorry.

[warm silo]

but what about the poor shareholders

[muted imp]

Sounds like private equity shenanigans somehow.

[warm scarab]

yeah

i know sharur did as he scraped like every graph database

its probably on peqdb

[white gate]

https://tenor.com/view/tim-gunn-eww-gross-yuck-meme-disgusting-sticks-tongue-out-gif-25378754

[restive sigil]

@thin void why didnt you go to London with the headphone guys and @white gate to get your scan ? :o

[thin void]

2 reasons! I dont work at the headphone show anymore ANNNND I did it somewhere else 2 years ago LOL

[restive sigil]

LOL fair enough bud, ah ok. i knew you didnt work for them anymore. but i was like "darn would of been fun for a cool guest appearance in this audio hobby community" :D neat though that you got yours measured :O have you been using your profile often when testing or prototyping stuff?

[sleek lily]

Why is everything a subscription now 😭

Money legit doesn't buy anything anymore

It rents it

At this rate imma start having the grocery store demand I return any canned goods I didn't use this month

Even science is becoming more pay walled

I used to nearly always have access to research through either my institution or through IEEE

[lean grove]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/75560036-technofeudalism

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222376640-enshittification

[sleek lily]

But now I run into more and more papers that are locked behind secondary pay walls anyways

[haughty girder]

Lots of research papers are paywalled for the distribution platforms, but in some cases you can actually contact the writer of the paper and they'd give itt to you for free

[glass vessel]

Wow so much changed since I last was in the audiophile interest!
Still me thinking best value prodicts for their prices are quark dsp, hexas, variations, sundara/6xx, and so on
Hd550 big news I missed and I can only imagine what’s happening with IEMs

[restive sigil]

you make more money using a subscription model. i mean look at banks and car dealerships. its a tested method for generations to work and milk everything out of you.

[prisma field]

tbh i like late 70s to mid 80s yamahas since they are crazy heavy wood cabinets and beautiful caged mids and trembles

poor yamahas are quite short so i have them ontop of taller speakers

[limpid wing]

So i have a pizero2w that i want to turn into a diy ipod, but i can’t find a way to install the AAC codecs into neither raspberry pi OS nor ubuntu so that my airpods pro 2 stop being choppy

It just feels like i have to rebuild pipewire on that poor CPU just to get it to work at this point… is there an alternative solution?

[prisma field]

eddieate why the 💀 ?

[stone quartz]

Modern Yamahas are nice. Can't imagine those are much different.

They had some pretty serious misses, though.

I know they released the NS-10 which has become the gold standard for testing what your music sounds like on a shitty speaker.

[prisma field]

Exactly.

[stone quartz]

Tannoy speakers are similarly cool

They have a coaxial driver design with what I think is a compression driver embedded in the woofer.

[haughty girder]

being an non-ported design, they're incredibly consistent and detailed.

So even though they don't sound great as is, they're super consistent which makes mixing from one studio to another easy

just get used to what the NS10s sound like, make it sound good on em, and you can work in any studio

[lone flame]

his "copy paste" shit is useless anyways

you have hit target from "all" measurements

problem is. measurements where done with different setups (rigs)

so you cannot compare shit on it

[warm scarab]

just select measurements from the same rig?

im not here to be sharurs defendant as annoying as he is but your take is honestly terrible

[lone flame]

and uhhh... How do you know what rig was used?

[warm scarab]

the source is literally written next to the measurement

[lone flame]

just says who measured it

not what rig was used

some people even have multiple rigs

like Crinacle

is it his 711 measurement or 5128?

terrible answer of yours

and the targets are also just from every rig

[warm scarab]

i said he archived rtings measurements not that his website is good in logic

[lone flame]

the measurement part ist useless

[warm scarab]

most of the site is useless

[zenith pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/house-explosion-explode-boom-kaboom-gif-19506150

[prisma field]

yamahas sound good yes

very good

the issue is my sound quality

[sleek lily]

And that's enough to deduce the rig.

[lone flame]

that's not how it works

like with Crinacle

is it his 711 measurement ot 5128?

you don't know 😄

there are just simple rules for graphs

[zenith pawn]

I don't think it even says who its from?

I remember just having to guess based on the capitalization

[haughty girder]

How many people have 5128?

Crin splits his website to 5128 and 711

and he also puts the 5128 or 711 top right

every other reviewer either does a) the same thing if they previously used 711 and transitioned to 5128, or b) they don't have 50k for a 5128

"when you hear hooves think horses not zebras"

711 was super widespread because it was cheap

if they're just "any ol' reviewer" it's highly likely they're using a 711 or 711 clone, not a 5128.

[haughty girder]

<@&750150305383186585>s cooked account

[hardy vine]

@haughty girder hey, I tried the stuff you suggested about the snowsky melody sleeping but nothing worked. The only """fix""" I found is just playing music in the background 24/7, and I didn't see anything in the instructions about this.

It just sleeps for 0.5s when no sound is playing, but I haven't seen anyone complain about this

[lone flame]

Some

[white gate]

And ignore the fact that targets can't just be transferred across rigs?

(and that single line targets are dumb and bad to begin with)

[white gate]

No it isn't. As others mentioned plenty of sources have multiple rigs

[white gate]

I would strongly advise against using any of that guy's resources/website. For both practical and moral reasons

[sleek lily]

Tbh, he might just add it if someone asks him to. He's pretty active on discord.

[warm scarab]

pretty sure someone must have told him that before

[haughty girder]

wait also yeah uh

rtings had to go subscription cause bots would just scrape their data and nobody would read the reviews

[livid ruin]

no, it’s about money

if it were about bots they would not use a subcription model but one time

they want to keep pumping out more (decent quality tho) reviews so they began charging

i liked their old model much more, charge for details and most recent reviews, after few weeks those reviews become free

knowledge should be free imo

so this is kinda a step back

i communicated with rtings about it and they’re aware people will just pirate the content and share it for free

basicly i doubt it’s going to benefit them in the long run… people used to the site may pay but eventually they’ll run out

if i were a random i would absolutely not pay to some site just to view a review

if they keep the current model i assume in 3-5 years they will make less money than a week ago due to reduced traffic (less ad revenue)

[livid ruin]

also potentially llms may train on that pirated data so their point just doesn’t make much sense

[restive sigil]

https://youtu.be/gPhTb9yl9OY

opinions on the HD 630 BT can

?

[livid ruin]

i forgot if i wore these

uhhhh if i did they sounded like a sennheiser for sure

[warm scarab]

i wonder why no one read the reviews

this is wild

"and like most open-back over-ears, they're only designed for critical listening."

how can people read banger takes like these and not take the reviews serious

I thought my headphones were usable for multimedia until rtings told me they are good for critical listening only actually

[haughty girder]

You know what's crazy though, they had all the equipment in the world and could've been the defacto source

before the 5128, while everyone else had the gras 45AC, they had a HMS II.3

Then they adopted the 5128, and did a bunch of cool stuff with it, more than just measurements of headphones.

so I really do respect what they do and the amount of investment they put into their equipment, but ultimately reviews need to be written by enthusiasts who don't just read off a graph

hence why I think LTT labs is so interesting - they're another entity who's heavily investing into equipment but one of their "reviewers" is DMS.

Someone who has been around the block and knows what he's talking about

[warm scarab]

yes

then they chose every worst possible method of interpreting this data

[white gate]

Add what?

And given the level of racism/toxicity/edginess in his server not to mention his own behaviour in the past I have absolutely 0 interest in being in there

There are reasons he's banned from literally every other group/server

[sleek lily]

Add the rig used next to the graphs presumably.

I'm not active in his server, so I could be wrong, but I haven't seen racism there. It's definitely edgy though.

[solid dirge]

Oof rtings is enshittified. Ah well the scores weren't the important part anyway IMO

[lone flame]

it doesn't matter what may happen with the site.
now in it's todays state, its useless

[solid dirge]

Oh boo they removed the frequency response tables. Nvm. Bad

[lone flame]

bro Rtings...

[fast stratus]

My favorite wireless for features, not comfortable at all though.

The Sennheiser companion app is genuinely such a W.

If I had to say three things they could do better with a V2, it would be adding aptX Lossless, a passive mode, and bigger earcups.

IM BLIND

I didn't even see who was in that video.

[restive sigil]

i'll be honest

if im buying (i did buy xm6) a wireless headphone. im looking for ANC performance, comfort, battery life first, over sound.

because thats the freaking point lol

even with the best ANC

[lone flame]

https://tenor.com/view/soccer-football-wrong-opinion-opinion-fact-gif-23967632

[restive sigil]

you still have BT connections, and when downtown in the city or underground in a tube

[lone flame]

sount first!

[restive sigil]

na man

[lone flame]

kidding 😄

[restive sigil]

:p

[lone flame]

:3

[restive sigil]

: D

[lone flame]

if you want superior ANC, APP3 probably

[restive sigil]

na man

i tried thoes at work

sony for me still better

gives a much better ANC + solid passive

better than any ear buds

BUT

its heavier than airpods obv xD

and bigger

honestly if i need "earbuds" i just slap on my Final Audio B3

sure no ANC, but if i really need that "i dont want something on my head right now" (which is a rare period) i just pop thoes in

[fast stratus]

Cloud 3 S wireless hits 2 of your 3 requirements very hard.

Comfort and battery life are outstanding.

Tuning is decent.

No anc though.

I think it's the best HyperX branded headphone imo, the wired 3 is kind of terrible for tuning.

[restive sigil]

honestly im not a huge fan of turtlebeach cans, they have very weird tuning for sound

[fast stratus]

I don't own one anymore unfortunately, so I can't let you demo.