audio-tech

[broken grotto]

oh, you right

[green marsh]

the edge of the graph is 20k

[broken grotto]

just weird looking

[lone flame]

ye

[broken grotto]

I don't like his plots.

the other ones linked are better.

[green marsh]

i mean trusting amirs graphs is a sus move

i only trust 5128 graphs

[livid ruin]

plus if he just throws headphones on the rigs, it's not that unrealistic to come across that if you're a regular user

[lone flame]

5128 and Gras 🙏

[green marsh]

not really

[broken grotto]

not really how that works

[lone flame]

if you put it on... and you have liek 5dB of channel imbalance. you will adjust it

[green marsh]

if you throw your heaphone on your head and it doesnt seal you know its not sealed

[livid ruin]

frequency consistency is a plus, not a minus

[lone flame]

like. it happens like muscle memory

[green marsh]

and you will adjust it

[livid ruin]

he does say in some of his reviews that he adjusts the headphones

[lone flame]

some

[broken grotto]

if bro can't even format his plots nicely, I don't have much faith in his measurements.

[lone flame]

and if the Seal / seat was shit

[livid ruin]

it's just missing the 20khz

[lone flame]

the THD measurements are ueless too

[warm scarab]

zzzzzzz

https://tenor.com/view/cat-glass-cute-cute-cat-cat-in-glass-gif-7716823274462348253

[lone flame]

$1200.

[warm scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/ricky-trailer-park-boys-money-im-giving-you-this-thanks-gif-17130900

[livid ruin]

also, you gotta represent the average experience, most people will just throw headphones on and go about their life

[green marsh]

💀

[lone flame]

not really

[livid ruin]

pretty sure he does more than that

[livid ruin]

yes really

[green marsh]

most people are going ensure it gets a proper seal

[green marsh]

no he doesnt

look at this shit

[lone flame]

The seat difference between L and R are huge

[livid ruin]

find me pic where he put headphones on the rig with a poor seal

[warm scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/curse-of-set-curse-of-ra-curse-pharaoh's-curse-sand-gif-770168623807474523

[lone flame]

it will sound ass so you will try to make it equal

people will try to fix channel imbalance to a acceptable level

[livid ruin]

could be unit variance

[lone flame]

look up EVERY Squig Link measurements

[green marsh]

i just fucking showed you one holy

i even posted it twice

[lone flame]

Planar Seal Bass 🙏

[livid ruin]

considering fiio's bq issues, screws coming loose, and channel imbalance not being that uncommon... it is plausible it's not his fault

[livid ruin]

pic of the headphones themselves

on the rig

not a graph

[green marsh]

brother im not fucking doing that

[lone flame]

im pretty sure that its just a measurement error of him

[green marsh]

its literally an amir skill issue

[lone flame]

yeah

[green marsh]

stop fucking coping

[broken grotto]

Here's what I observe as someone who has formatted many plots:

• Poor Y-axis scaling. 117dB max makes zero sense for a headphone FR graph. The usable range is compressed into a tiny slice, minimizing the meaningful differences. See other examples posted.
• Ambiguous Y-axis units.
• No citation or scaling info on "preference reference,"
• LR curves show channel mismatch. Was this due to no smoothing? measurement noise? coupler variance?
• 425Hz is kinda weird for a ref freq, but i could be wrong.
• I don't see coupler type readily.
• I don't see repeatability tests.
• Caption is cluttered. Separate data from commentary.
• I noticed two time stamps. which is it? 2020 or 2021?
• contextual comparison. "essentially the same, " so overlay the HD650's curve. That's just an assertion without data.

[warm scarab]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/980988443708522518/1310391313702715534/5q7wwkz0ewbb1.gif

[livid ruin]

how did we end up going to this from hd6xx sounding tinny for a user

[lone flame]

bcs we moved on

[warm scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-gif-16432724057255568190

[broken grotto]

that

idk who this amir guy even is

[lone flame]

ASR CFO

[broken grotto]

but my first experiences seeing his measurements give me sus vibes

[livid ruin]

who do you recommend then

[broken grotto]

your ears.

[livid ruin]

i see everyone shitting on everyone, on dmz, on whoever makes diyaudioheaven measurements, etc.

[broken grotto]

I don't really give two hoots about the graphs, honestly.

i buy headphones to have fun,.

but, for what it's worth

look for graphs that are well documented, with as much information formatted nicely and properly.

[livid ruin]

i agree repeatability is necessary, but i don't quite understand that you gotta create the best conditions for a headphone in order for a measurement to be valid

[broken grotto]

you don't

but you must document it,

[warm scarab]

you get the average to represent the average performance

[broken grotto]

otherwise there's an implied perfection.

if the measurement wasn't done properly, you have two options

[warm scarab]

you dont do a random measurement once to measure the x chance you have in how the headphone will sound for one specific placement

[broken grotto]

keep the data, explain that it was non-ideal and what happens.

then do it again

[livid ruin]

what's the likelyhood someone working with such a rig doesn't know how to put on headphones

[broken grotto]

or you trash the experiment and do it again.

[green marsh]

except it should

[warm scarab]

a lot seeing amir exists

crinacle is also responsible of doing this a few times

[lone flame]

Red: AMIR, FT1
Blue: KB50xx tiltet
Orange. boizoff, FT1

same pinna used. an as you can see. the 5.2K peak and 14K peak at boizoff's measurements

[green marsh]

yeah cuz solderdude of diyaudiohaven still uses a flatplate measuring rig in the year 2025

[lone flame]

on Amir's measurements on the same Pinna. they are a bit lower. at 4.6K and 11K

[green marsh]

which produces literally 0 meaning full data

[broken grotto]

the tldr is pretty much to trust no one

so use multiple sources.

ie, trust but verify

[livid ruin]

what about unit variance

[lone flame]

look up Squig Link measurements

[lone flame]

2 different units

it can't be that the measurements with a KB50xx pinna has the 5K peak at 5K but on Amir's measurements not

even the ~14K peak

[livid ruin]

it can...

[lone flame]

how :D?

[green marsh]

it just means hes not using kb50xx

[lone flame]

iirc he uses a Kb5010 pinna

[livid ruin]

well, i don't want to compare oranges to peaches but i've had multiple superluxes hd681, and each unit sounded different to my ears

[green marsh]

💀

cuz its a fucking superlux

[lone flame]

yeah

25€ headphone

you cannot except any kind of Build Quality and less unit variation

QC costs money.

[broken grotto]

yes, yes it does ):

[livid ruin]

well, you need to find out how consistent ft1 batches are

do you have any other examples than ft1?

[lone flame]

only thing they changed was the scew

[lone flame]

of what?

consistency?

[livid ruin]

yes but something has to assemble the headphones

[lone flame]

HD800
HD800s

[livid ruin]

yes

[lone flame]

🗿

superior QC

[green marsh]

excuse you thats one unit multiple times

[lone flame]

ik

[green marsh]

and the second one is one unit on multiple ears

[lone flame]

positional cariance

[green marsh]

thats not what he was asking

which was unit variance

[lone flame]

better?

[lone flame]

yeah that works too

i took the only 2 5128 measurements and put them on each other

[lone flame]

the reason why HD600 can be HD650

and HD650 can be HD600

[graceful karma]

i just bought me an airpods max, the most beautiful sound i have ever listened to in my life

also the best headphones ive ever had

alots better than my airpods pro

with ANC as well, much better at enjoying music under fan noises (AC, PC fans and such)

i really recommend everyone (who enjoys listening to music) try airpods max at their closest apple stores

with cash on hands prob since you will love it and want to buy one

[quick bridge]

[broken grotto]

Not at that price.

[elder thistle]

I remember a while ago someone chose the k361 to describe what it sounded close to

what an L that would be

but it also wouldn't surprise me if I heard the airpods max and they were sub-$100 territory with resolution

do you know what kind of headphones you could buy for $500

it may not be a beauty tiara with remote controls like airpods max

but it'll be a real headphone

side note but my favorite sounding wireless headphones I've tried so far were the beats studio 3 wireless from a few years ago

great midrange detail, decent instrument separation, somewhat tight bass

[broken grotto]

I kinda accept wireless cans won't sound better than wired, so years ago I bought the focal bathys during black Friday and have been using them since. They're okay.

Iir i paid $480 or so?

[severe hare]

Some help with the setup.
I have Klipsch KG2.2 which they have the Red/black input ( passive speakers )
and my tv has RCA output and s/pdif
i need an amp looking at (Fosi Audio BT20A Pro)
and 4 bananas / AWG14 cable
and 1 cable M/M RCA
But i bought a Homatics Box R 4k Plus and it only has S/PDIF out for sound? what should i buy to connect everything? i need a DAC for Homatics right?

Yep, simple dac to RCA, got it (TV has ARC HDMI 2) will use a simple dac, but i could use RCA only.

[tired crown]

Truthear zero blue 2 or Truthear pure

[kind hawk]

Why do headphones need equalizerapo to sound good why dont manufacturers just make it sound good from the factory

[warm scarab]

because they dont need eq apo to sound good

that is subjective

[livid ruin]

it is decently hard to make headphones line with target curves

[left verge]

@warm scarab So i reinstalled APO, and now I get why you were confused on me giving up on it lol
It did NOT look like this when i last tried it, it's night and day
So in that case, I'll look around, but I think i'll start using this
Do you have any tips on it?

[warm scarab]

aside from ui navigation i cant give you any specific tips

it does whatever you use it for

i doubt there is any info i can give to you that a yt tutorial didnt have

[zenith pawn]

i've heard a lot of people complain about the treble in the blue 2, although if you use the stock tips they're supposedly fine

[versed gazelle]

I can get a K100SW for $275 cad, originally $549. Is that a good sub?

[lean grove]

the klipsch sub? im seeing it for $200 usd.

[wintry mirage]

how do i flip the phase of my subwoofer because the separate amp i use for it doesnt support changing phase by like a switch

is it just as simple as something like switching the wires around

[paper crown]

Best speakers are free speakers. Am I right?

[livid ruin]

100% value

[stuck bolt]

Yes

[frigid ermine]

Can someone help me with a setup for an e-guitar through a mixer onto my pc?
I have the Behringer Xenyx 1002 but I'm missing the audio cables, can someone help me what I need?
I also have the GOXLR.

Right now what I have is my XLR microphone connected to the GOXLR, the mixer and my e-guitar + the amplifier box. For power I have all, but for Audio I'm missing the cables (no idea where I put them)

So what I was thinking is:
Guitar -> Amp box -> Mixer -> GOXLR Line In -> PC

• Intrument cable from e-guiar to box
• cable from box to mixer
• (here is where im unsure) cable from mixer to goXLR line in, I suppose 6.3mm/3.5mm?
  (it also says L/R so I don't know how I should handle that, if I need a Y-split cable etc.
• and then from goXLR to pc, which it already is

[green marsh]

did you buy all of these things at once or did you already have the goxlr or other things?

[frigid ermine]

Nothing at once, most of it is old

mic, mixer, guitar + box is around 12+ years old

goXLR is maybe 4 years old now

[green marsh]

aight if you had just bought all of them them id say you should have gotten other things lol

[frigid ermine]

I figured :D

[green marsh]

should be able to plug the output from the box into channel 1 or 2 on the left

[frigid ermine]

for the mixer?

[green marsh]

and then from the main out to the goxlr

yeah the mixer

[frigid ermine]

I was thinking buying those cables:

• 2x instrument cables
• A Y-Split 1/4" (L/R) cable to 3.5mm

[green marsh]

shouldnt need a split

[frigid ermine]

So either L or R is fine?

[green marsh]

ur guitar signal is going to be mono

[frigid ermine]

gotcha

[green marsh]

you could really plug it into any of the line ins

they all say left channel for mono

or i guess that might just be saying each input it self is mono 🤷

[frigid ermine]

Yee okay, so 6.3mm to 3.5mm and then into the goxlr I suppose?

[green marsh]

yup

[frigid ermine]

Awesome, thanks c:

What do you think is a good length for the instrument cables? Does it matter a lot if the cable is "too" long?

I was thinking to get 2x3m

[green marsh]

as long as its long enough to do what you need and not get in the way

[frigid ermine]

or maybe 2m and 3m

[frigid ermine]

Okay then I guess imma get 3m for both since it doesn't cost much more

[green marsh]

👍

[frigid ermine]

Again thanks! Helped me a lot c:

[green marsh]

np

[frigid ermine]

for mixer output, do you know what the difference is on the right side?

main out and ctrl room out

[green marsh]

i would assume one is for the control room and the main as in mains speakers

like in a live environment maybe

🤷

or studio

[frigid ermine]

Hmm I see, so I just use main out L then?

[green marsh]

yeah

[frigid ermine]

coolio, tyty c:

[primal fulcrum]

100 meter so you can go everywhere in the house

[blissful portal]

What do you fellas think of the Senheiser momentum 4?

[blissful portal]

@lone kite what do you think of the Senheiser momentum 4? Did I waste my money or are they good headphones?

[lean grove]

did you already buy them?

[warm scarab]

buy first ask after

#purchase-affirmation-tech

[blissful portal]

Perhaps

[blissful portal]

The reviews were good but I can’t really tell the difference between these and my old headphones

[blissful portal]

These headphones sound similar but the only noticeable difference is that they are wireless and have ANC. Besides that they sound the same as my old headphones lmaoo.

I may have gotten a bad deal…

[lean grove]

normally you're supposed to ask if they're good before you buy them

but since you have them already why do you need to know if they're good?

you tell us

[blissful portal]

So far they sound really loud on everything I connect them to

Linus voice sound different

[steel escarp]

can confirm, its effective

[lone kite]

not a huge fan of wireless audio devices personally, but looks quite good for the price

[blissful portal]

They sound good but I wish I could lower their volume a little bit and I dont know how

[lone kite]

They should have a volume knob on them, as well as using the windows volume slider

Ideally have the windows volume slider between about 20-80%

[versed lake]

for a hot second i thought u were ado

[tired crown]

What would y’all suggest for Iems around $50

[zenith pawn]

Truthear zero red

[wintry mirage]

i hate how bluetooth headphones go into like a call mode when you use your microphone so all the audio goes to shit quality

i have no idea how to fix that

[warm scarab]

cant

its a bandwidth issue

[wintry mirage]

thats a shame

i wonder if i can make a 7.1.2 setup in my loft

the roof is like 3 feet above my head when im sat at my desk

i still need to fix the zone in the middle of my room where all the bass just dies

[wintry mirage]

im going to treat the whole room at some point i just wonder what else ill need to do

[fallow oxide]

Should I get the Maono B01 mic arm or the Maono BA92 mic arm?

[green marsh]

USSE USSE USSEWA

[blissful portal]

Im thinking of returning the momentum 4 headphones for audio technica or something wired. This wireless bluetooth stuff is annoying to deal with.

[lean grove]

what do you need the headphones for

like whats your use case

[buoyant vale]

[paper current]

[lone flame]

that is Ado

[blissful portal]

I use them for gaming

[blissful portal]

I was using razer headphones for gaming and my LP2 headphones for everything else. But the razer headphones literally fell apart from cheap build quality.

[steel escarp]

lmao what the heck are the momentum 4

these belong in the garbage bin

[blissful portal]

Yes

[blissful portal]

After using them the last 24 hours I agree

[steel escarp]

they are 90% bass and probably somehow nothing sounds well outlined on them

[blissful portal]

Are these measurements wired or Bluetooth?

[lean grove]

yeah bluetooth is not good for gaming.

too much latency

[steel escarp]

wired is uh

idk what the fuck is even going on with the wired mode

[blissful portal]

My pc doesn’t have Bluetooth I was using them wired and it was not great experience

[lean grove]

https://drop.com/buy/drop-pc38x-gaming-headset

[steel escarp]

they sound 10x better over bluetooth

[zenith pawn]

what the heck

[steel escarp]

tho even with bluetooth they should be thrown into the garbage bin

[zenith pawn]

it's got that sinusoidal target

[blissful portal]

Are those headphones better than audio technica ath m50?

[steel escarp]

yes

[zenith pawn]

volume(frequency) = sin(pi*frequency)/frequency-ass frequency response

[blissful portal]

I’m not sure about open back since my environment is noisy

I might just get the hyper cloud x headphones for gaming And get a better headphones for everything else.

[warm scarab]

no dsp

a lot of bt headphones sound ass on wired

because they rely on dsp to sound half decent

[steel escarp]

that driver is so ass

[zenith pawn]

iem master race

[blissful portal]

Don’t they have dsp when using the wired usb c cable?

[warm scarab]

maybe?

on 3.5 i know they dont for a fact

on usb they should

[zenith pawn]

I don't think its possible on 3.5

[blissful portal]

Is it better for PC headphones to use usb or 3.5mm?

[zenith pawn]

if it has usb then I think there's a good chance it depends on some DSP inside the usb dongle to sound decent

[warm scarab]

3.5

[blissful portal]

Has any of you tested gaming 7.1 software? Is it actually any good?

[livid ruin]

they're ok, don't belong in the garbage

[zenith pawn]

youre in audio tech though

this is for real people with serious audio opinions

[blissful portal]

I might just get the PC38x like that one fella recommended. It’s sound’s good for what I need. It’s a bit goofy with the mic but the specs make it sound good.

[civic beacon]

What do you mean by "gaming 7.1 software"? Elaborate. You can't just install a piece of software to magically make games (or other content) have 7.1 audio - the game / content needs to have this natively.

[blissful portal]

Razer and hyper cloud both advertise 7.1 spatial software

[civic beacon]

Ah, so software that fakes / upscales regular audio to 7.1 audio. Well, they do what they say on the tin: they fake / upscale audio with fewer channels to audio with more channels. But because it's fake... results will vary.

[blissful portal]

That guy above recommended the PC38X and the YouTube video I watched said it was a great headset. I might go for that one

[echo verge]

hey, looking to get a set of wireless heapdhones for walking around the studio. right now I really like the sound I get out of my dt990 pros (though, i know I could do better, but i break heapdhones all the time and these are cheap and good enough) but the problem is i cant find any low-latency solutions. was just curious what things are out there. i prefer something that gets audio directly from my mixer, not USB or whatever.

but, to be honest there isnt really tons of info online about my options? id like to avoid a large bulky wireless pack but if there is one and its small thats ok. proprietary cables suck ass though.

[blissful portal]

If you prioritize durability then I would reccomend the Vmoda Crossfade 3

[echo verge]

good point, these dt990s ar elitterally falling apart after 2 years, even though I treat them well.

[zenith pawn]

it's just marketing BS

it's the game/sound engine that creates the "virtual surround", and it's not even specifically 7.1

[livid ruin]

7.1 is a set of speakers, anything other than that such as virtual 7.1 is nonesense

every headphone would be then 7.1

[livid ruin]

i thought beyers last

[livid ruin]

probably a faulty unit

[zenith pawn]

i think that's unlikely

https://kuulokenurkka.squig.link/?share=Momentum_4_Wireless_(Passive)_**

here's a second unit and you see the exact same thing

different machine but you get the jist

[livid ruin]

i’ve never seen them measure this bad

good to know

[blissful portal]

Yeah the more I research the more I question what exactly the software does that they advertise?

[zenith pawn]

It probably does some tweaks to make it feel like it has more directionality and soundstage

In headphones and in-ears it's all artificial anyways

[livid ruin]

i guess just eq presets

[broken grotto]

Its entirely DSP. very fancy dsp

Ie you convolve each sound source (channel) with a HTRF, resulting in what it would sound like through a speaker

Like dis:

    for each channel in 7.1:
        left_contrib  += convolve(input[ch], HRTF_left[ch])
        right_contrib += convolve(input[ch], HRTF_right[ch])

    mixL = sum(left_contrib)  + reverbL
    mixR = sum(right_contrib) + reverbR
    output = [mixL, mixR]```

You really end up with a 2 channel mix having 3 dimensional spatial cues encoded.

Its really neat tech actually

[blissful portal]

Explain further pls

[zenith pawn]

your brain relies on certain cues to estimate where a sound is coming from
So sound engines in games have to be designed to imitate those cues to give you the fake impression of having surround sound

[zenith pawn]

i dont really see what 7.1 has to do with this though, these filters aren't taking a 7.1 output from the game and then simulating it on headphones. They literally take in an already stereo output from the game and I believe just apply some weird tricks to make it sound more convincing if the game doesn't do it super well by default

it sounds like you're describing how you'd convert a 7.1 source into stereo with convincing imaging?

[broken grotto]

Oh, you are right

I was thinking of true 7.1

Don't mind me while I comb through IEEE papers

[broken grotto]

yeah, this is how it's been done before, and if you have like, Dolby Atmos, this is what you would be doing if you don't have a true 7.1. The main difference is when you transform the source into stereo, it's not just summation; it's going to be applying some h(t). (HRTF) per channel. ie, it's perceptually mapped instead of geometrically mapped.

Contrary, the "headset software," doesn't seem to do any per-channel stuff. rather, it just widens stereo via simple DSP tricks like mid/side, reverb, EQ, and delays to "fake" surround

and even dolby atmos iir takes 7.1 and/or 3d sound objects, with defined xyz.

it's very very similar to radar signal processing. given how signals arrive at different receivers, you can infer or recreate spatial location.

the HRTF is basically just an array steering vector from radar systems

this is kind of a cool picture:
Source: https://intretech.com/news/spatial-audio/

[blissful portal]

How does Apple AirPod Spatial Audio compare to those other ones?

[broken grotto]

it's closer to any of the two-channel ones

you can't really have a true 7.1 surround sound with just one speaker

apple's just got really good DSP

partly why you see these "personalized audio" stuff now, as well.

the main difference I think is that Apple has that like, spacial tracking thing

which would mean they need to use HRTF's.

they need the spacial awareness.

[white gate]

It's not so much the DSP itself, it's the head tracking

Our localization/directional hearing ability is heavily reliant on how things CHANGE as we move. Which is why stuff like audio on VR headsets is so convincing in a spatial audio sense even if the headphones themselves are often bad.
If you get the directional HRTF effects even close to correct and make those changes according to head tracking info, you can achieve an extremely convincing result.

You can't do the same thing with 'static' audio positioning, which is why "virtual 7.1 surround sound" stuff is universally kinda terrible

For headphones without head tracking, you'd want proper binaural rendering, which many games now have (lots of games will have a "headphones" setting in addition to a stereo/speaker setting, CSGO literally calls it "HRTF")
This will nearly always be VASTLY better than what any 'virtual 7.1' system can hope to attempt.

Virtual 7.1 is a gimmick and should be avoided. Even if you have a product that offers it, for both music and games you'll get a better result by not using it

[broken grotto]

yeah, but it's not that the head tracking is entirely separate from the DSP chain. It's not in the filter path like the HRTF or convolution kernel, but it's still part of DSP.

We'd refer to that as the control path, rather than the signal path,. Head tracking updates (modulates) the parameters of the filters based on sensor input. ie, user movement.

[fallow oxide]

Fifine AM8 or Fifine K688?

[unique wind]

holy unusable

[broken grotto]

the reason apple's "DSP" is really good, is mostly because it has the processing power to do most of this on-device. If it just needed the DSP filter path, no problem any device can do that; but if it's doing all of the control path calculations and such on-device for the lowest latency, the processing required is much greater.

ie, you need to process everything in the spatial audio control path before then next 2-3ms audio buffer deadline, or you get desynchronization... which in radars is bad. and for audio, you notice it too.

[white gate]

Well what I'm saying is that the actual DSP part isn't necessarily anything special

[broken grotto]

apple's entire implementation of the closed-loop system they use is what's special. might be just a nomenclature thing, i forget most people just see the "DSP" as simple convolution kernels.

[white gate]

Well sure but the ear canal effect correction stuff would also then be defined as 'part of the control path'

[broken grotto]

it would be, yes.

but apple's DSP is a network of feedback loops, not just the filter operations themelves.

if you think back to my home in radar, the signal path is the raw DSP pipeline. just the open-loop engine. a real radar isn't just that. it has multiple feedback and control loops wrapped around it such that it continually modulates what the DSP pipline is doing. So rather than open-loop DSP (apply a single kernel and be done with it.) you have adaptive, closed-loop DSP systems.

this is basically what Apple is doing.

[white gate]

I think this is far beyond the point.
The point is just that the spatial audio aspect of apple isn't good because of the other stuff they have, it's good specifically because they've implemented head tracking where hardly anything else has

[lean grove]

bring back the audeze mobius

[broken grotto]

that thing was lowkey pretty cool

Audeze should probs stay away from software tho

[lean grove]

also that thing had its headband snap too often

was the number one complaint i saw on reddit

[broken grotto]

that kind of tech is very cool. even though it might not be good, it's awesome seeing something I used to work on in different systems applied to audio.

we used to use that kind of tech to determine where an object will be next, many times in aerospace applications.

locate-and-follow

can even determine the: "is it a bird? is it a plane!?"

which is sort of a big deal in a defence application, don't want to scramble jets over a goose lol

[blissful portal]

Ok so getting a good stereo headphones is better than the 7.1 software trickery. The other guy recommended the PC38x. Is it a good headphone ? Anyone have experience with itwith?

[broken grotto]

do you need a headset?

[lean grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOXCEsTyv7s&t=1152s

theres a few other options in this video too

[blissful portal]

My razer headphones fell apart and my other headphones can’t hear footsteps.

[broken grotto]

Ah, yes, but do you need the microphone.

Will the lack of a microphone cause you great turmoil

(What a great game that is.)

[blissful portal]

The mic is less important. I was going to use Vmoda boom mic or get a separate cheap mic for communication with teammates

[blissful portal]

Based on my research I narrowed it down to three options the Drop PC38x, Epos H6Pro, and the VZR model one. The PC38x sounds good but I do not like open back.

[zenith pawn]

what was your budget again

[blissful portal]

below 300

The senheiser momentum 4 were $260 and I am returning them

[broken grotto]

I think people generally say that any good headphone is good gaming headphone

[zenith pawn]

I wonder if I should try changing majors from computer engineering to electrical

[broken grotto]

why?

(actually curious)

if it's interest in the sort of signals type stuff that I yap about a lot, I think you could get into that as CpE due to the large microcontroller nature of modern RTDSP

with that being said, though, many moons ago what drove me to EE was the interest in signals as a whole.

which is not something Computer engineering necessarily focuses on.

back when I used to teach, I had a lot of classes with both EE's and CpE's. the only exception was electromagnetism, CpE's didn't have to take that.

[zenith pawn]

most of the software side of the curriculum i either already know, or would easily learn, and i don't know if it's as useful to learn via college

mechanical does seem pretty cool but the intersect between that and EE/CE is way smaller so i waste more classes

[broken grotto]

I see. well, it's up to you; im always willing to chat out potential career paths and talk about the different ones.

[broken grotto]

mechanical lol

[zenith pawn]

where tf does applied engineering fit in this

[zenith pawn]

why lol

[broken grotto]

i mean, does mechanical sound interesting to you?

have you exposure to their workflow?

[zenith pawn]

Wdym by workflow

CAD and all?

[blissful portal]

The more I research the more confused I get with audio gear

[green marsh]

sounds about right

[blissful portal]

Ive narrowed it down to these choices but Im still torn on whats the best: SteelSeries Arctis Nova Pro, Sennheiser HD 620S, Epos H6pro , and the Drop PC38X

[broken grotto]

yeah, CAD, what kind of jobs there are, specialties, etc .

[broken grotto]

research and audio is a funny one

most research is cherrypicked to high heckers and back, even on IEEE.

[zenith pawn]

i've been in the school's formula sae club for a month and basically everyone there is ME (even though i probably wouldn't), but that's all i KNow

actulaly 2 months

[broken grotto]

are you far into your curriculum?

[zenith pawn]

right now i am a sophomore

i think there's about 3 classes i've taken that aren't in EE

[broken grotto]

yeah, with mech-e you're pretty much starting over

[zenith pawn]

actually just 1

[broken grotto]

that makes sense, the first few years CpE and EE follow very closely

computer engineering really is just a subset of electrical engineering focused more on compute than EE.

EE is more breadth of knowledge.

[zenith pawn]

it's 3 classes that i've taken that wouldn't be in ME

that's what the 3 was

[broken grotto]

depending when they're offered that could be a whole year.

ofc talk to academic advisors because i don't know your school

nor should I be the one to make that choice, but I can provide info.

[zenith pawn]

i have an appointment in 2 weeks since that's the soonest available

fortunately a week before registration opens

i probably wouldn't major in ME though, that much is true

[broken grotto]

But if it helps, my general path was Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering -> worked as a controls engineer as an entry job -> got masters degree in Electrical Engineering, master's focus on more signals topics -> worked in aerospace radar systems -> they sent me back for a Ph. D to help them research.

everything from PLC programming to advanced radar DSP

PCB fab, systems fabrication, prototype, etc

[zenith pawn]

my mom probably wants me to get a masters degree eventually. So far I've usually been considering mastering in CS but maybe that could change by the time i graduate

[broken grotto]

In engineering, Masters degrees are mostly useful if you plan on being some manager.

the nice part about EE and CpE is that they give you a wide breadth of knowledge on almost any topic you need to get started

[zenith pawn]

seems my school also has a Master of Science in Electrical and Computer Engineering

[broken grotto]

and the rest you learn as you go.

[zenith pawn]

if i was not going to go to a different school

what is the p in CpE

[broken grotto]

Computer Engineering

[zenith pawn]

is there anything that's also abbreviated CE

[broken grotto]

Civil Engineering

xD

[zenith pawn]

oh i do not want to be confused for that

[broken grotto]

lmao

[zenith pawn]

that's what i like about it so far

[blissful portal]

What do you fellas think of the Fio FT1?

[zenith pawn]

probably shouldn't take my word for it, but it seems like there's a lot of people that love it, and a lot of people that hate it

[blissful portal]

That’s my conclusion on every headphone I find

[zenith pawn]

that is very accurate

[broken grotto]

and if you like it, someone hates it

honestly the FT1 is a good price.

it sounds fine for the like, $160 you pay.

you can get the FT1 and a mic for less than the momentum 4's you had before.

[blissful portal]

The price is good and it’s closed back is the sound quality good ?

[broken grotto]

it's fine

but it's also subjective

my general take is that if you want a fairly inexpensive headphone, that's wired, closed back, and you aren't super critical of sound, you'll find them more than acceptable.

[blissful portal]

Sounds good so far

Do they hear foot steps good?

My current headphones have a big dip right where footsteps would be heard

[broken grotto]

That im not too sure about

I don't really play those kinds of games lol

https://squig.link/headphones/?share=Fiio_FT1_S2

I don't really care about graphs

but if you want it, there's the one from super review.

[zenith pawn]

what's the current headphones? is that hte momentum 4?

[blissful portal]

No my current ones the the Vmoda LP2

I got the momentum 4 thinking they were an upgrade but I’m returning them tomorrow

[lean grove]

There's a lot of people that like it and like three people that hate it

[livid ruin]

the screw

||came loose||

[blissful portal]

What

[livid ruin]

there were screw issues of ft1, it coming loose

probably irrelevant now, channel matching issues of older fiio’s

[broken grotto]

they've replaced the screwz with rivets

I have ordered the crinear daybreak

maybe they'll be good idk

[zenith pawn]

i am curious to hear

[broken grotto]

generally most of the iem's i've bought that he has collabed with have been pretty good

but i am also very not picky

[zenith pawn]

i wanna get a third pair of iems or headphones to keep at home

[broken grotto]

he's really up against his first collab I bought (also my first IEM's,) the SeeAudio Yume Midnight

because i generally love those iem's lol

[zenith pawn]

generic meta sound

[broken grotto]

I think those were released in like 2021

might explain that a wee bit

[zenith pawn]

the daybreak?

[broken grotto]

no, the yume midnight

[blissful portal]

So what benefits do IEMs have over headphones?

[broken grotto]

noise isolation, usually better sound for a lower price

sometimes

it's easier to tune iem's

personal preference

sometimes headphones aren't very good, like if i don't want my hair messed up

[blissful portal]

I do not understand how IEM make high quality sound in small physical form

[broken grotto]

why do much when little do better

more control using mechanical crossovers.

tho im not an expert on those

electrically, you have many different driver types that are cheap as heckers, letting you tune the IEM many ways.

[lean grove]

Also when an iem connects directly to your ear canal, it's easier to produce the sound you want.

You don't have to worry about sound leaking out other places, and the amount of air you have to move is a lot less.

[haughty girder]

Great

[haughty girder]

Yeah really early on, Fiio changed it to a C clip instead of a screw and offered fix kits to existing owners or anyone who got old stock

so I'd say that's about as good of a solution as you can get

the stock cable feels stiff but quite solid

I'd say it's worth its price

[fast coyote]

FiiO make good stuff and have good support. Hm. Might have to get some gear.

[haughty girder]

yeah they've been mostly killing it as of late with their things

I don't think Snowsky or Jade Audio (Fiio subbrands) has released anything that's actually a product that needs to be avoidedd

[green marsh]

idk ft13 wasnt reviewed that good

[haughty girder]

yeah the FT13 wasn't great

JT1 was also not amazing

but FT1, FT1 Pro were great, FT7 was decent, FT5 were good

none of them are even close to a neutral tuning except the FT1 pro, though.

all of the sources (Retro Nano, BTR1x, KA1x, Daps, etc.) are all pretty good

[lean grove]

good
dap

pick one

[green marsh]

i chose good

[broken grotto]

FiiO DAP's are the only ones that have been continually reliable for me.

[haughty girder]

that's what I'm saying

[broken grotto]

The hiby ones all were a little jank

[haughty girder]

Hiby are quite jank

Fiio actually pushes firmware updates that fixes or adds features

so like

W

[broken grotto]

I guess there's cayin too

And ibasso

Astell and kern

......Sony.

[haughty girder]

at the upper end I'd say they're all about alright

the issue is at the lower end of things

like hiby R4 with heat issues from the class A amp inside

Anything sony is laggy

[broken grotto]

I've never use cayin

They're very expensive

[lone flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsiRIx7lNUY

[molten skiff]

Is there iems that have similar sound signature to the momentum 4s headphones

As I like their sound

[lone flame]

IEMs sound different anyways

[zenith pawn]

not if they sound the same

[molten skiff]

Well I mean similar sound signature

[lone flame]

EQ 🗿

[molten skiff]

I rather not have to eq on my phone

[elder thistle]

my advice would be to find something that only resembles the tuning of the momentums, then do a lot of listening and adjust to the rest mentally

if you truly value tuning that much, be advised it will be hard to correlate iem measurements to headphone ones

[molten skiff]

Well just want iems with good vocals for like jpop and a punchy bass

[lone flame]

would probably go for new meta tuning

so like Crinear Daybreak

[deft portal]

i'm hearing some white noise through my kz zs10 pros, are there any budget products that can help with that?

i've read around that ifi earbuddy work but they are discontinued

[zenith pawn]

What is your source?

[deft portal]

for now it is plugged into the monitor

[zenith pawn]

Try the apple usb-c to 3.5mm dongle

[broken grotto]

the ol' monitor headphone jack

[zenith pawn]

it does not surprise me that output would have low quality

[blissful portal]

What’s wrong with monitor headphones jack? I’ve been using one for years

[broken grotto]

nothing's wrong with it

just that it's an afterthought.

[blissful portal]

My cable no reach PC

[broken grotto]

"well, it has HDMI so might as well add one."

esp since im pretty sure if you use displayport it doesn't do anything anyway.

actually i think displayport can do audio

most of the time audio ports on stuff are mostly there because it can and should be there, but it's not necessarily a component anyone really cared about.

good audio circuitry is expensive and complicated, so they won't spend that kind of dev time on it.

[bronze plover]

does anyone know where i can get the data files for drivers? spesifically from seas and peerless

[jade idol]

hey guys so i got a ffine k688 and for some reason it just randomly started like not staying the right way up on my arm anymore it keeps falling over and idk how to fix it can anyone help?

if u need a video of what its doing i can do that

[lean grove]

Maybe try emailing the company?

[bronze plover]

good idea

[jade idol]

if anyone knows i would love the help

[lean grove]

there should be bolts or something to tighten to keep it in place

[broken grotto]

Tighten the screw on the arm.

[jade idol]

i figured it out! it wasnt the arm it was like the mic part itself but we good now

thanks for the help tho people!

[lone flame]

Uhhh

Some manufacturers measures their drivers. And some of them may keep the measurements

You can ask the support if it's possible to get the data

[broken grotto]

Find the part # if available

Everyone measures their drivers at least once. If its a part you can buy, itll have a datasheet.

If theres no part # or public datasheet, then id contact support.

[steel escarp]

turns out I was an idiot for buying a tube pre-amp

for my already warm chain

tube compression/distortion is not ideal

[blissful portal]

Senheiser just released a new headphone that looks exactly like the one I just returned but with a new dongle.

[broken grotto]

lol this xduoo adapter thing has a slight pop every time audio is stopped and started, nice.

[blissful portal]

Xuduoo ?

[lean grove]

xdudu

[broken grotto]

fr

[lean grove]

i got a tube amp from them a while ago that was remarkable at picking up ground noise from my PC

[broken grotto]

it's worse that I generally use super high sensitivity IEM's

which means everything they suck at gets picked up lol

aside from the thingy, though, it sounds fine

[broken grotto]

the motherboard audio is cleaner than that xduo thing

that's sad

[warm scarab]

can someone recommend me an anc item to stop the voices

[bronze plover]

I can find datasheets for them but there are no other files, like the frd file i need to design a crossover

Alternativly another way to get the frequency graph into vituix or a different crossover software

[agile void]

https://drop.com/buy/drop-grell-oae1-headphones?utm_source=linkshare how are these?

Is this just a bunch of of hype and no bite

[green marsh]

quite bad indeed

[broken grotto]

Less bite than missing dentures

[broken grotto]

crinear daybreak on fridayyyyy

im lowkey kinda excited to try them

[zenith pawn]

Do you have any other crinear branded ones? I only have truthear zero red

[sleek lily]

my dispute closed and I got a free edition xs because hifiman being asses

literally trying to charge me fees for them sending me the wrong product while refusing to send what I paid for and acting like I dont deserve the deal I paid for.

[deft portal]

got some cheap filter and it fixed it

[zenith pawn]

cheaper than a 3.5mm dongle?

[deft portal]

10 euros

on the same price

[zenith pawn]

Interesting choice

[broken grotto]

I have some crin collabs, the blue 2 and Yume Midnight

Both are pretty good

I meant to buy the dusk but never bothered

[blissful portal]

AirPod pros have great ANC but nothing will truly stop the voices

[blissful portal]

What do the Yume midnight look like?

[broken grotto]

you can't even buy them anymore i don't think

[broken grotto]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/see-audio-x-crinacle-yume-midnight.25636/reviews

[dim sun]

which UI looks best?

[blissful portal]

The bottom one looks more groovy

[elder thistle]

can I have one

[thin void]

stale hotdog water

[lone flame]

he should have sticked with Sennheiser and creating a better HD800

[primal stump]

@lean grove I have a set of some iball speakers (two of them) and a subwoofer sound system, and they sound rlly trash out of the box, I use them on my computer and I have used peace eq to improve the sound quality output, but I wanna get more out of the system instead of entirely buying a new one. I was thinking what if I buy like some replacement speaker for a bose sound system and solder it on the satellite speaker? I know its not a smart option because its not just the speaker driver that matters, but my vision is getting more sound resolution out of them so that when I use peace eq, it will provide me a detailed sound, is this a good option?

[livid ruin]

Give the hd600 more sub bass

[sleek lily]

Didn't Sennheiser try and do that and kinda just mess it up

That mass drop version where they sealed the baffle for more bass

In a way killing the purpose of the headphone

If they really wanted the baffle to act less breathable they should have just used a higher density mesh tbh

Not literally taped it off

[sleek lily]

Hd565 already exists

And is super under appreciated

They need to rerelease it tbh

[elder thistle]

some game engines are not going to have useful binaural stereo audio

if the game can output 7.1, then the right 7.1 rendering software (e.g atmos) will be a gamechanger

but I haven't played more than 1 or 2 games that warranted such a thing, and they were singleplayer

pc38x is cool I guess, bit of a middle-of-the-road option

good tonal balance

accurate imaging, even front/back in my case

resolving enough

not my first choice for picking up on quiet sounds/details, but not my last choice either

soldering issues

[broken grotto]

oh crinear daybreak a day early

nice

[lean grove]

Yeah maybe not. Bose likes to fuck with their speakers and it makes it really hard to work with them.

Save up for some nicer speakers. The subwoofer might be usable but idk.

[livid ruin]

pc38x is good

[chilly prawn]

I have a passive sub but my amp doesn't have a subwoofer out, only a regular out (which has no low pass filter as I would need tor a sub), and so now the sub is playing all the frequencies and really muddying up the sound, how do I deal with this?

[strange walrus]

can i hide the ones i dont want to see or not? i looked around but windows 11 is shit so i either missed it or its not there

[green marsh]

try in control panel

[strange walrus]

nope

[green marsh]

youve done it wrong then

[strange walrus]

go to devices, remove device, still shows up in sound

what the fuck am i doing wrong

[green marsh]

go to sound, disable device

doesnt show up

[strange walrus]

oh my fucking god

so

one sec

fucking windows11 shit

if you click on view devices in control pannel it goes to settings not the fucking sound thing you need

you have to click on hardware and sound which WHY DOESNT IT JUST SEND TO THE SAME PLACE

oh cool a fucking warning for all caps without giving a shit for context, thats fun

[blissful portal]

Windows is constantly hiding important settings

[strange walrus]

i just dont understand how remove device in setting and disable device in control pannel arnt the same fucking thing

[blissful portal]

I’m still mad that I have to go down a rabbit hole just to set up a microphone to play pc games

The settings are all spread out for some reason lmao

[broken grotto]

oh sweet, I got the short widebore tips with the crinear daybreak

i wasn't sure if i was getting new stock with those changes or not

[zenith pawn]

how are they

[broken grotto]

they good

I like them

If I could probably say what I think... is that they're clean.

for $169, particularly.

i am more suprised at how comfortable they are

not a very fun tuning. it's just pleasing.

I shall try them right from the motherboard

instead of the DAP

[zenith pawn]

it sounds like that's what crinacle tunings are

[broken grotto]

nothing really wrong with it either

especially if you want to just be like: "Buy it."

I'll date myself here a bit but I like testing with this one: https://tidal.com/track/225717971/u
It's just fun.

lol anyone remember animusic

[zenith pawn]

tidal try to load challenge

does it just fail to load if i don't have an account

Error loading additional links. Try again

[blissful portal]

I got the moondrop chu 2 like that other fella reccomended and they sound real similar to my Vmoda headphones but for $25 thats a great deal

[broken grotto]

if you share TidaL links, it comes up with like

a thing you can select your particular music service

like this

not sure why it wouldn't work for you, the link works for me

country maybe?

[fast stratus]

I decided to get them, hope the hype is real.

My brother wanted my CMF earbuds so I also got the Ear (3)

Excited for the case mic gimmick.

Seems to solve my only issue with earbuds.

This is my Christmas gift to myself this year ig.

[blissful portal]

I just returned the Sennheiser momentum 4 which look identical to the HDB630

[fast stratus]

Momentum 4 didn't interest me.

[blissful portal]

Maybe they fixed all the issues I had idk

[blissful portal]

Why not?

[fast stratus]

Didn't come with some of the features the HDB 630 has and the 630 is very good on graphs.

[blissful portal]

What features are different?

[blissful portal]

That graph thing is interesting because someone posted the graph here and it was different when I looked it up. There’s a few slightly different graphs for those same headphones

[fast stratus]

BTD 700 USB-C dongle

Very high quality wireless audio.

[blissful portal]

That dongle is the interesting part

[fast stratus]

The app also has some nice features for this headset.

[blissful portal]

The momentum 4 paired poorly with my iPhone

The dongle may be their fix

[fast stratus]

It also is apparently better than the momentum 4 just in general.

I'll see for myself when it comes in november.

[blissful portal]

I’m not sure about that. It seems like they took the momentum 4 and tuned them a bit and bundled them in with the dongle

[fast stratus]

I doubt that.

[blissful portal]

The dongle has been available on their website for some time now

[fast stratus]

They most likely have different drivers.

[blissful portal]

But at the same time people kept saying that the momentum 4 were old and ready for a new iteration

I need to see a non sponsored person review them.

[fast stratus]

There are a bunch of reviews rn.

This is the first one I saw.
I looked at a few others as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPhTb9yl9OY&t=554s

[humble willow]

Anyone have mic suggestions?
Rn i have a blue yeti and would like to upgrade sometime next summer/christmas
Budget is ~500€

Also how can i troubleshoot my mic sounding like a dying robot

Cz it sounds like that on a server vc but in a dm call its fine somehow
Ig its a server issue but idk what issue it could be

[livid ruin]

they’re a decent upgrade though, other brands are also catching up

i mean ugreen made a $30 headphone (max5c) aside from some smaller distortions and meh, small earcups they’re pretty good

and lacks features obviously

compated to the hdb 630

kinda sad the hdb 630 isn’t 2.4ghz though

[blissful portal]

It’s weird that they named them the HDB 630 instead of calling them the Momentum 5

[broken grotto]

The only difference is bluetooth is multiplexed and uses different modulation. I hate the "2.4GHz" marketing lol

There is more overhead than using some other modulation method, but I wish they stated that; some of those dongles are literally just bluetooth.

(Bluetooth operates in the ISM band, same as wifi and even those "2.4GHz" dongles.)

Zigbee shares a band with your microwave.

I love marketing.

[broken grotto]

reputation probably

[livid ruin]

Actually, not too bad for the momentum 4

I don't like that sennheiser calls stuff 6xx what should've been 5xx considering the driver and shell/casing

like the 620s

priced like a 6xx as well, unlike something like 560s, 5x9 or 550

[restive rivet]

Hey, slightly strange question, but I want to get my monitors audio to output into my PC so I can record it at its best quality. I have a 3.5mm male to male aux cable that I plugged into the boards Mic In port, but the quality is.. not great. It does transfer sound, but it's full of static, I even plugged in my 3DS this way and it was super loud. I am not sure if this is due to the cable, or if this is just not viable. Has anyone tried this, or is willing to try this?
The reason for me doing this is that my capture card does not seem to do very well with the audio. It's poor quality and that just won't do. If anyone knows or is willing to test it out, I'd really appreciate that. My current possible options are get a new aux cable to try this with (if the one I have is just bad), give up on that (if doing this will inevitably output poor quality), or replace the capture card (hoping it's just defective and that the poor audio isn't normal)

[broken grotto]

does the pc not have a line-in?

[restive rivet]

It does, I did try that but I'm not certain how to set that up in OBS to hear it

[broken grotto]

generally speaking, a mic-in is made for very low level signals, from a microphone. line-in is more common for audio from a device.

[restive rivet]

I may be able to route something someway into Carla to then use in OBS though,

[broken grotto]

I'm not super knowledgeable on OBS, but lemme google

well

with OBS, whereever you select your audio sources you should have an option to select Line in.

I think OBS calls them scenes.

audio input capture?

[restive rivet]

I'll check

[broken grotto]

plug the audio cable in

iir on windows it won't be selectable until it knows there's something there.

but idk

experiment

[restive rivet]

Here's the back panel. None of the ports are labeled

My other PC says blue is Line In and Red is Mic In so I am assuming it's the Blue one

[broken grotto]

this is the reality. windows used to tell you.

it probably still does

[restive rivet]

I must confess that, I am not currently on Windows

[broken grotto]

Linux?

[restive rivet]

Yeah

[broken grotto]

luckily for you they're standard anyway

[restive rivet]

I assume the Line In is equal to "Built-In Audio Analog Stereo"?

If so, unfortunately that is also extremely staticy. I'll show you a clip of what it sounds like

[broken grotto]

I don't knowo your system.

[restive rivet]

From earlier, but same sound

Seems to match

[broken grotto]

yeah, motherboard audio isn't that great.

but additionally, your cable could be causing some issues, as well as the system you're trying to input into your PC.

[restive rivet]

I could attempt to try windows bare and test it out.

Like, hypothetically, should this be viable? Routing the monitor audio to ones PC?

[broken grotto]

OH right it's the monitor audio

yeah that sucks

[restive rivet]

Dang

[broken grotto]

monitor audio is no good, try running it from the wii to the PC directly

[restive rivet]

Cause when I plug in my headphones to the monitor it sounds perfect

[broken grotto]

i feel like a python script. try: lol

[restive rivet]

Wii to PC directly? I'll check if it has any like, ports for that. But even when I did my 3DS it was uh... (Vol warning)

[broken grotto]

I mean, remember that headphones have some kind of natural bandlimited behavior

ie, that is, your headphones only see a fairly narrow band of the audio spectrum

line in on the other hand is made for wideband audio capture.

line-in normally has a pretty flat response up to 20kHz, many times beyond that for higher-end gear, as well as very little input filtering, just the anti-alias filter on the front end to the ADC.

it's very likely that you don't hear it on your headphones because it's acoustic and electrical filtering make it inaudible. The ADC doesn't discriminate tho

[restive rivet]

Okay, okay okay very interesting update
Plugging the cable into the WiiU port and into Line In removes the static. Now I just gotta test the quality

Might test this on my main PC for better audio

[broken grotto]

what monitor is it?

[restive rivet]

ASUS VG27AQ1A IPS Monitor

1440p

https://shop.asus.com/us/90lm05z0-b083b0-tuf-gaming-vg27aq1a.html

[broken grotto]

"Yes." lmao

most ASUS monitors either use Realtek or ITE tech

both of which are awful.

[restive rivet]

Funn

Well, with the WiiU Dock option, I don't actually have to rely on the monitor itself for the audio - which is a two-fold benefit cause I can then plug my headphones into there for minimal latency best audio on my end

I'm trying to determine if the WiiU to 2nd PC Line-in is better than the Capture Card audio. I think it is, but it's hard to tell

[broken grotto]

plus, doing it the way you've been doing it (it sounds like) is Wii U -[display cable]>monitor -[audio cable]>PC-> back to your headphones

[restive rivet]

It's a bit tricky. The barest bone method for this with the suspect card is WiiU -> USB Capture Card -> PC/OBS which is then Monitored for hearing

It's the WAVLINK G2 Pro, which has better video specs than my Blackmagic Pro Intensity 4K while also being USB (-C Capable)

[broken grotto]

I only care about the audio path

[restive rivet]

I'm hoping the poor audio is just a defect. But even if I plug my headphones directly into the capture cards audio port, it sounds the same.

So at minimum, Wii-U HDMI to Capture Card HDMI In, and then Capture Card to Headphones

[broken grotto]

Can't your capture card record both the audio and video from the Wii U?

[restive rivet]

Yes.

[broken grotto]

and that's still noisy?

[restive rivet]

It's not that it's noisy, the static was from trying to figure out the monitor to pc stuff. I'll show you a difference between the Blackmagic capture card audio and the WAVLINK audio

[broken grotto]

yeah, because frankly that's super inefficient

[restive rivet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/898418738087493632/1430217632514052288/SIhaGY0.mp4?ex=68fcedf7&is=68fb9c77&hm=2abde6b69ea25d25df6cdf6a626f29eff93a987eaf1058f87a81531e8cbe9e28&

Blackmagic vs WAVLINK

[broken grotto]

you are adding two converisions using analog audio. why not just record and monitor through the capture card in OBS?

[restive rivet]

Same quality

I can plug the WiiU into the blackmagic card and monitor its output, and it sound much better (first half of above vid)

Both of the clips are from OBS Monitoring

[broken grotto]

yea that sounds fine, i don't hear anything too crazy.

[restive rivet]

It's not that it's crazy, it just sounds... worse.

[broken grotto]

this is line level matching.

[broken grotto]

that hum is interference

[restive rivet]

Could interference be sign of a bad cable? Or just active surroundings

[broken grotto]

your environment and setup.

again, two conversions

do not use analog audio in your application.

you have the noise from the wii u's circuitry, you have the noise from the monitor, the noise from the pc, and the noise from anything being an unintentional radiator around you, not to mention the ground loops as all of these devices are.

you add multiple stages of ADC, DAC, ADC, DAC, and every iteration you add noise and garbage.

you could adda ground loop isolator, but that won't fix the noise from the Wii U's, PC's, nor monitor's power supply.

[restive rivet]

Makes sense.
In the tests though, it's generally just been Port to Port, ie Monitor Port to PC, or as of curent Wii-U Port to PC
Then for the capture card itself, HDMI Input to PC USB
Thinking about it.... I'm actually confused - the Audio in OBS is bad, and yet, the passthrough HDMI Out to Monitor sounds fine. I'm not quite sure how to explain that

That's actually so weird to me

Both audio outputs must be from the same input, right? So how can the Capture card Port audio be poor when its passthrough HDMI output sound perfectly fine

[broken grotto]

this is the audio in OBS?

[restive rivet]

Yes. First half is audio from the blackmagic capture card itself, it had audio integrated into its source
Second clip was from the wavlink capture card being its own audio capture device

WAVLINK is a bit odd in that its video is selected as if it's a camera device, and audio via audio capture

[broken grotto]

they originate from the same place, but go through different processing chains.

HDMI passthrough is a pure repeater.

it goes straight to the monitor without being touched.

[restive rivet]

I see

[broken grotto]

on the other side, the USB capture card has to A/V decode, and convert it to a USB stream

this adds compression, and probably gets buffered or resampled by windows again anyway.

also remember that the wii u is pretty old, so it doesn't have the best audio stuff anyway. 48kHz, 16 bit PCM, dynamic range baked into OS, HDMI clock jitter...

you're basically riding the line as it is.

[restive rivet]

Right, though the other card is able to capture the audio well

I presume it being PCIe helps

I gotta brb for a bit, but I'll keep testing

[obtuse fog]

Gaming headset recommendations? Budget is around 250 USD

[warm scarab]

pc38x

[broken grotto]

FT1 and seperate mic

(are modmics still any good?)

[blissful portal]

Your pc interface is like a Wii?

[restive rivet]

No no that is just the video recording of my WiiU through OBS via a Capture Card

Reason the 3ds one still had the wii menu was cause the capture card was still showing video while the aux cable I have was plugged to my 3ds and pc

[blissful portal]

This makes me more confused. Do you not have a wii at all?

[restive rivet]

The WiiU has a Virtual Wii menu for wii games. That is what I am in

[blissful portal]

How does the 3ds fit in this?

[restive rivet]

I was clarifying potential confusion on why there is Wii video but 3ds audio
The video is irrelevant, I had just plugged the Aux cable into my 3DS into my PC, and recorded it with OBS

Once* I'll clarify

The rest of the vids is of the wii audio

[blissful portal]

that is a strange setup

[restive rivet]

It is. I tested the 3ds to figure out whether the setup was bad or the cord

Frankly it didnt help much

[blissful portal]

Are you able to play your 3ds while connected to an external screen like the Walmart displays used to do?

[restive rivet]

I am not sure actually, I never tried that

[restive rivet]

Back, my newer motherboard is somehow worse than my alienware board

It's not on par with the capture card, it's about as bass boosted as the 3DS

That's.. wild to me. Oh well. I have a new new board I can try and hope is better, an MSI x570 UNIFY board. Should beat the ASUS one

Very interesting to know that different motherboards have different effects for this

Meanwhile I may try replacing this capture card in the hopes that it's merely defective

[lean grove]

bass boost might be due to a high output impedance

what headphones are you using

or is the bass boost coming through the capture

[restive rivet]

This test was with plugging the WiiU gamepad into my PC's Line-In and Mic-In ports (separately, same result)
It sounded much nicer when I did it on my Alienware motherboard ports, but sounds bass boosted when plugged into my other PCs Asus x570 Prime-P

The Alienware resulted in a sound quality similar to the capture card

[lean grove]

weird

[broken grotto]

you're at the mercy of whatever ADC they're using.

Dell typically uses TI, iir

[restive rivet]

I'm hoping the board audio is better on the MSI UNIFY board I have, so perhaps it can give desired quality

[broken grotto]

are you still trying to compete for the world's most inefficient line-in setup?

[restive rivet]

More or less

[broken grotto]

lmao

[restive rivet]

I'm using what I got lol

[broken grotto]

i just don't get why you don't just capture using OBS, the capture card should have both video and audio

[restive rivet]

I can. But the audio quality is suboptimal

[broken grotto]

even on the PCIe one?

USB im not suprised

[restive rivet]

Not on that one, that one is good

[broken grotto]

yeah, USB sucks. are you using the cable provided?

is it on a hub?

[restive rivet]

Yes to using the provided cable - the provided cable is a USB-C (card) to USB-A (PC), but comes with an A-C Adaptor as well. It's dark blue coated, which I think means it's 3.2?

That is to transfer captured audio and video

It has a hub of sorts? USB-C port, Line Out, Mic, and Line In 3.5mm ports

then obviously the HDMI In/Out

[broken grotto]

well, are you plugging it into the motherboard's USB directly

and that being said, does it require some standard that isn't USB2.0, such as USB3?

[restive rivet]

Yes. I am plugging it into the Boards 3.1 or 3.2 ports

[broken grotto]

just standard checks. the capture card is just bad then.

lol

[restive rivet]

It seems to be standard USB-C / USB-A

Blue coated, so likely 3.0 bare miniumum

https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-2560x1440-passthrough-Ultra-Low-Compatible/dp/B0DDK73NYL

[broken grotto]

oh i didn't see it was wavlink

that kind of explains a lot

[restive rivet]

I mainly got it in anticipation for Prime 4 on the NS2

I don't think my other card can handle that

[broken grotto]

there's your noise.

cmon guys

shield yer stuff

[restive rivet]

Unshielded... hmmm
I know nothign of audio tech, but - if shielding is all that it needs, could I... open it up and put a thing there to shield it?

[broken grotto]

no.

it's on the PCB.

[restive rivet]

Dangit

What is shielding? Is it a physical thing that goes on a thing to mitigate nosie? Or is it something that has to be like, hard-placed into a thing

[broken grotto]

you want to run sensitive data lines (like HDMI) as stripline between planes on a PCB. On a 4 layer board,you have:

• L1 - signals (low speed)
• L2 - GND
• L3 - PWR
• L4 signals

You then run USB 3.1/2 and HDMI on a stripline between layers 2 and 3.

I see HDMI lines on top.

[broken grotto]

it can be physical, or it can be designed

you may add RF shielding to prevent it from radiating, or from being impacted by EMI. or you may design the PC board stackup to do the same thing.

this is the crux of cheap products, generally. most of them are produced quickly, and fairly cheaply; making them not very good.

[restive rivet]

Do you suspect I can merely add RF Shielding to it? Or is this baked in screwed

[broken grotto]

you really can't fix it.

somewhere in your setup it's getting noise, and there's nothing you can really do

[restive rivet]

Dang. I guess I'll have to jank myself a bit then and use both capture cards simultaneously - the one for audio, and the other for video

[broken grotto]

on top of USB issues.

I've had lots of issues with WAVLink

most of the time it's poor design decisions. most of their laptop docks go in the trash.

they're cheap, but for a reason.

[restive rivet]

THe thing that makes this tough is that everything else seems to work so far (I haven't tested streaming with it yet), but it plugs and plays easily and it seems to capture a delightful variety of video (even the most minimal WiiU resolutions and types), etc. If the sound wasn't an issue (and other possible future issues I'd fine), this'd be perfect

And in the interest of my NS2 plans, it seems capable of doing 1440p at at least 120hz or fps or whatever capture cards do

[broken grotto]

HDMI has decent tolerance. those long trace runs are little antennas, likely causing the noises I was hearing in your recordings

[restive rivet]

(and it works on linux)

[broken grotto]

i don't remember but I think i heard a 60Hz tone, so you might have some ground loop thing going on too.

[restive rivet]

That is interesting. Good to be made aware of, although I do not currently know the nature of what that means

The only thing I am somewhat aware of is electricity causes magnetism and that might be interfery

I have a really weird idea
What if I passthrough the HDMI into an HDMI Splitter, route output 1 to my monitor, and output 2 into capture card to pass the HDMI Audio into another card capable of managing the sound better?

Though I'd just do WiiU to Splitter then to both capture cards, with the Wavlink passthroughing to my monitor (which is my current setup for testing).

This is a pain why do people rush quality

And my other capture card is basically a whole package, so I can't just separate its audio to my knowledge. I mean I might be able to route it via Carla and then put that in as a Jack input so I guess that'd work if I am able to use that.
My main concern with using both capture cards is overloading the stream with basically two video inputs

Augh I don't think it'd work on mint.
Dang it man xD

[zenith pawn]

some people ned to just buy an Apple USB-C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter

[restive rivet]

Funnily enough I actually have one and tried it

I wanna say it's apple but it's definitely a 3.5mm to USB-C

[zenith pawn]

it should at least sound good, i think most of them are using the same standard level of decent dacs

[restive rivet]

I don't remember what the output was, it was either still not great or strangely nothing at all

Though... I could try it with the WiiU I suppose

Nothing

No audio output

[steel escarp]

I got a pair if Neumann KH120A for 600. Now I can get a pair of Hedd Type 07 mk2 for 950. Is it worth getting? For my living room. Or what else should I look in to for an upgrade around the 1k price. Second hand is possible.

[steel escarp]

<@&750150305383186585>

in multiple channels

[broken grotto]

Scaaaaaaaaaaaaam

[broken grotto]

dac doesn't work both ways, it also needs an ADC if you're using as a line in.

I presume that the ADC in the dongle is only connected to the mic input

[vocal anchor]

hopefully someone here can help me. I got equalizer APO to adjust my EQ and now every other program sounds normal and fine except discord. discord sounds hollow af and like im listening through a tunnel. anyone had this issue?

[zenith pawn]

this is about mic in? this entire conversation was so confusing

----- unrelated question:

can you use a reference mic like for REW (UMIK-1?) to capture an accurate image of some real sound? as in a real sound that's not just sine sweeps
if not then what exactly is missing? is there significant nonlinearity in the mic response or something?

Because in conversations in the past, it seemed like people would say that a reference microphone can't capture an accurate image of a real sound. That doesn't really make any sense to me

One thing I'm wanting to do (and trying to figure out the feasibility of) is measure impulse response of a keyboard switch, and then estimate frequency responses of adding different things around it and estimate the final sound output

and I can predict the responses to this so I just want to say initially, i don't give a shit about whether it can be 100% perfectly accurate to the highest degree. I just want to get closer to understanding how the acoustics works

[broken grotto]

It is a very confusing conversation.

All you need to know is that they are competing for the world's most inefficient audio chain ever

[broken grotto]

You can use a reference mic

You'll get an extremely accurate voltage from the mic.

[zenith pawn]

I might look into getting a umik-1 or umik-2 for fun

[broken grotto]

They use those for measuring room impulse response, no?

[zenith pawn]

yeah but what else could possibly be done

they're reference mics but from what i can tell, the best ones for amateurs

[broken grotto]

I mean, you can devise any experiment acoustically

[zenith pawn]

is there something else i should buy for that idea above

[broken grotto]

I'll have to think about it a little bit

[zenith pawn]

I also don't know what it'd take to mimic an anechoic chamber which is probably an issue for that idea...

Also if anyone has recommendations for good books about acoustics I could definintely look into that to get a basis

It would also be nice, in the beginning, to just measure the sound of each switch with a consistent setup, outside of a keyboard. Nobody really does that right now I don't think

[green marsh]

?

[zenith pawn]

i'm guessing this is a no?

or well yes

yes that a reference microphone can be used

[green marsh]

i dont get it

what are you asking specifically?

[zenith pawn]

I want to get high resolution and accurate recordings of a real sound. Trying to figure out whether it's a good value for me to buy something like a UMIK for that, even though people seem to say it's only for room tuning.
And also kind of interested in the exact purpose of all kinds of different music microphones, is there anything inherent about expensive music microphones that makes them better for recording than a reference microphone?
I get one big difference being the pickup pattern, because in music you rarely need to pick up something omnidirectionally. But what else

[green marsh]

wdym real sound

for what

if youre not doing measurements then theres no point getting a umik

recording mics are for recording

measurement mics are for measuring

one is made to be as flat and accurate as possible

and one is made to sound good

[zenith pawn]

that's what i'm trying to ask, what exactly makes something a recording mic, and what makes it a measurement mic. Is it just a difference in the frequency response tuning and whether it sounds more pleasing?

above I already answered what it was for specifically, so I just said it more generally here because I'm also interested in that answer

[green marsh]

measurement mic is also omni

most recording mics are not

etc

measurement mics are calibrated

[zenith pawn]

yeah I already mentioned pickup pattern

so the difference, aside from pickup pattern, would basically just be frequency response flatness?

a big, load-bearing "aside from" there but still, that's what i was trying to ask

[green marsh]

yeah

[zenith pawn]

Master Handbook of Acoustics (Everest and Pohlmann) seems to be pretty widely recommended and it is available at my library...