audio-tech

[sleek lily]

we can assume them to be minimum phase to simplify some systems, but in reality they aren't because the initial loading, but thats not relevant here at all. its another topic entirely.

[white gate]

That isn't what it means. The phase response of a headphone will not be flat. Minimum phase just means that there is no ADDITIONAL phase discrepancy other than what is implied by the deviations from a flat frequency response.

Any non-flat frequency response will have a non-flat phase response. This is true for a headphone, a speaker, EQ etc.
The only time this won't be the case is if you're doing separate phase manipulation in the digital domain to alter phase without altering FR

Changing the FR inherently changes the phase response

[white gate]

I'm really not sure what you're meaning by this, and given how our previous discussions have gone, I'd ask that you not repeat claims like this without providing evidence

[green marsh]

But thats his modus operandi

[white gate]

But yeah, to put it simply, ILD and ITD is not really a thing in headphones. That's all down to the content you're playing.
What matters in headphones for the sense of spaciousness and perceived soundstage is how the tuning relates to / matches your HRTF

https://headphones.com/blogs/features/diffuse-field?srsltid=AfmBOoqVDgVFEgEKPsjp4hxTxZkZiHbkMSnx0x1PLGEa-EqvoT6W5a5D

I'd recommend reading this

[sleek lily]

lets say at 1khz our headphone is 90% resistive and 10% reactive from inductance. Now lets say at 500hz it is 95% resistive and 10% inductively reactive. Will we expect it to lead more with one signal than another?

[white gate]

This is where damping factor from the amplifier comes in, and is why headphones with a varying impedance curve WILL change in sound when run on a high output impedance amplifier, you'll get a boost wherever the impedance is higher.

But these are still minimum phase effects, so whilst you do see a change in the phase response, you also see a change in the frequency response and either the result on a low output impedance amp or high output impedance amp is still minimum phase at the end

[sleek lily]

now lets say that 500hz is playing in the left channel and 1khz in the right channel (In reality we will have a much more complex mix of inputs). If we expect the amount of lead to change between these two frequencies, ITD inherently also changed here by that change in phase.

[white gate]

We would yes, and this would be represented in the phase response of the headphone. Which as described and shown above, will still yield a minimum phase response

again minimum phase does NOT mean no phase deviation

[sleek lily]

minimum phase or not isnt related here, Minimum phase does not imply no change in lead or lag.

[green marsh]

But wouldnt ild and itd only apply if its the same signal

[white gate]

yes it does

Again, PLEASE, I am begging you, provide evidence for your claims

This stuff really is trivial to test even with free software like REW

you don't need to buy an APx500 or anything

you can do it yourself if you don't believe any of the measurements available from others

[sleek lily]

No, the opposite. The device will only impact them if there different unless you have a different device on each ear or channel.

because the signal is different between the channels, the system design changes the amount of time and level difference we will see compared to what we want to see based on the initial signal from our recording.

[sleek lily]

the proof is in how we would calculate the phase at a given frequency and how we woud calculate the reactance at a given frequency

[green marsh]

Idk what youre talking about but in my understanding/assumption of what ild and itd it is how the same signal is presented differently between ears

Differently in time and level

[sleek lily]

X_L is 2pifL off memory with f being frequency and L being our inductance

so our inductive reactance is frequency dependent

then to find out phase angle we would take arctan of X_L/R

[white gate]

But also I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here.
Our hearing doesn't detect distance/direction well at all based on the difference in ILD or ITD between two DIFFERENT frequencies, but for the SAME frequency.

If you have a 500hz sound in one ear and a 5khz sound in the other you won't get any sort of directional cue from that. You'll just hear two different sounds.

The sound needs to be within the same critical band for your auditory system to get directional cues from it.

And whilst some of that ILD/ITD comes from the inherent fact that a sound on your left will be outright louder in your left ear than it will in your right ear, the majority of this comes from the way in which your ear modifies sound depending on direction.

You can see here the frequency response at the eardrum is massively different depending on the direction the sound is coming from. Your brain 'tonally' filters these differences out, stuff sounds broadly the same in terms of 'tuning' regardless of direction but then provides clear directional cues based on the actual SPL differences

[sleek lily]

so what that X_L is changes the angle

which changes the amount of lead

and that is frequency dependent

this applies if our system be minimum phase or not

because this applies if we ignore or acknowledge that initial loading inverse movement of a driver

[white gate]

Again....you're making a lot of assumptions/assertions that do not at all align with how these devices can be EASILY shown to work in practice.

Please look at available resources, or just test it for yourself.

[sleek lily]

its not an assumption. Plain and simply, thats the math.

thats how we calculate inductive reactance and the pahase angle in that RL device (the headphone)

R being resistance. I dont thinkg I mentioned that variable earlier

[white gate]

You can proclaim that something should/does work in X way all you like, it doesn't matter if all the evidence shows that not to be true.

I'm unclear whether you're as in the last discussion simply unwilling to look at any existing evidence at all, or if you're misunderstanding the mechanics, or just trolling. But once again, it's not possible to have a discussion if you're simply unwilling to consider literally any evidence at all and so I'll just stop here.

[sleek lily]

resistance being a constant as it wont change with frequency

[white gate]

Yes it does

[green marsh]

You do know who youre talking to right?

[white gate]

I don't mean to be rude, but it's hard to remain all that considerate at this point.
If you are unaware that driver impedance varies vs frequency you've got a fair bit of reading to do

[sleek lily]

what do you mean here? This is the equation to find phase angle and inductive reactance. To disagree with this is to disagree with how RLC circuit theory as a whole works, and I assume youre not doing that.

If youd like, I could probably find some textbook pages on this same topic

I dont have my old linear circuit book, but I can probably find some other one online or a related article

[sleek lily]

that is exactly what the equation I described shows. It shows that the reactive portion of impedance is frequency dependant.

which is my point here

[white gate]

No, you're just either not considering or not understanding the full effects of RLC circuits. Perhaps start by looking at existing data and either trying to explain why literally everyone who measures headphones is apparently faking the phase information entirely, or read further and understand why actually you just weren't thinking about the whole thing and it does indeed make sense.

Consider why planar headphones don't change FR or phase when on a high output impedance amp but dynamic drivers do for example, when one of these varies in impedance vs frequency and the other does not. One is an inductive load the other is purely resistive

And yet both are minimum phase

[sleek lily]

because the device (the headphone or speaker) is not purely resistive, we will expect phase to change with frequency, and as such, the amount of lead or lag changes with frequency. So if 2 drivers play a different frequency, ITD changes between the two in that same relation to a small degree.

[white gate]

Only if you're talking about two DIFFERENT frequencies. Which again then falls outside of what matters for humans in terms of ITD for localisation cues

I'm not saying that two DIFFERENT frequencies will have different phase angles. Of course they will, that's true regardless of whether the device is minimum phase or not so long as it doesn't have literally 0 deg phase variation (which would be impossible without DSP).

But this was already discussed above so I'm not going to re-address that

[sleek lily]

How about this. I will have a friend of mine who is an EE in the field already take a look at this and maybe he can point out any dicrepancies here? otherwise I'll say the same thing again and we will go full circle. is that a fair ? In the mean time, I'll also look for a linear circuits textbook describing what I described.

[white gate]

Or you could literally just test this with any headphone and see what you get.....

There really is no point discussing what could/should be when you can just see what IS

[sleek lily]

I can do that too and I will send my results from that like I did before, but youll have to wait for me to take the measurements. However, we shouldnt ever expect the mathematical results to somehow not relate to the real world.

they will always relate, but at times we have more unaccounted for variables.

[white gate]

Of course not, but when your mathematical results DON'T relate to the real world, the answer is almost always that you're just not modelling things correctly, not that there is a magic discrepancy.

I don't think that you're fully considering how inductance relates to impedance here. A dynamic driver (somewhat inductive load) varies in impedance vs frequency but it's not because the copper is suddenly getting more or less pure as it moves.

[elder thistle]

it has to

imagine a capacitor in series with a resistor

[sleek lily]

itll result in a frequency dependent lag

minimum phase does not mean no lead or lag

[elder thistle]

with a lower frequency sent through this circuit, the capacitor will charge and discharge mostly at the rate it's asked by the input signal

[sleek lily]

it means the relation is a casual and stable relationship

so with headphones, at the start of a load, you get a sort of inverse movement that then catches up (due to chassis loading). That makes them non minimum phase, but if we want to be simplistic we can assume them to be for some ease of life usecases.

[elder thistle]

with a higher frequency signal, the capacitor is unable to charge and discharge in sync with the signal. it will discharge mostly when the signal is opposite of the voltage in the capacitor

[sleek lily]

but that relationship is different than the reactive relationship which is frequency dependent.

[left verge]

Looking for some $100 maximum wireless headphones
My dad has some Q30s from Anker right now
Doesn't have a preference

[sleek lily]

@elder thistle what youre describing is lag. Minimum phase isnt determined by if a signal lags or not

[green marsh]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_phase

[elder thistle]

this is why single order filters like lp6 are 90 degrees

[sleek lily]

yep, you can have a lage amount of lag or lead, but it doesnt determine if a signal is minimum phase or not

if the signal crosses the y axis twice as often as its input for example though, that isnt minimum phase

so minimum phase is unrelated to this topic

[elder thistle]

you mean frequency doubling or something?

[sleek lily]

it is an interesting topic I feel most in audio have a bad grasp on for how they try to use it, but its a topic for another day

[lone flame]

if you want the "best" Gaming experience with headphones

get some Comfy open back headphones

better would be a quite good Frequency Response. Wouldn't say that it sounds good on your head but its imo easier to have a good solid base FR

also wtf is this discussion again

everytime i go in this chat i read complete nonsense

feels like Flatearther vs a person who says facts

[sleek lily]

in sort, discussion was on if headphones can have a frequency dependent lead or lag

[regal moat]

I was look at Iems and I can post the list of ones I was debating between.
I have decided not to get headphones cause I don’t wanna have to worry about hair dents again

[lone flame]

what was ur budget?

[regal moat]

I’d prefer to stay under 50 cad and an option with a mic

[lone flame]

Gate

Truthear Gate

[sleek lily]

a mathematical representation of this might be if ΔR is delayed by 1ms (per our recording) from ΔL and ΔR is a 500Hz impulse while ΔL is a 1000Hz, would we expect the a lead or lag of exactly 0 if both channels are resistive and inductive compared to our expected 1ms delay.

[regal moat]

Lemme look into it
1 minute

[lone flame]

just have read the "imaging, stage" part

and yeah. Headphones doesnt matter when it comes to that

[regal moat]

https://www.amazon.ca/TRUTHEAR-GATE-Dynamic-Headphone-Interchangeable/dp/B0D5QYNSW3/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_maf_1?adgrpid=62792424124&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9oya4BMefPAnaWPfodBorFyVWUX2uHjP73P_CAGOxtAAELKZJkyrvkB-3heGufDg3h4Hqr7OmoWdGRfAeFmLKHfQgC6lkBJQqnEl2TY3NHsT3RUuATmeA-lj_JX423_9V39dApEohsFKaNPJvHFpaey5O1JzoHd5GPmTjGoiJtaizFNYarzqmTnsO-oHDT8rALmhbpjwFFVS5v_fwNUHXw.uX1MEW95OwniUxwI4yij9nrSNAi94_4to7oAYC1oaZw&dib_tag=se&gad_source=1&hvadid=605683036549&hvdev=m&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9000858&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=6327136375288669620--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6327136375288669620&hvtargid=kwd-2365251150607&hydadcr=25342_13543531&keywords=truthear%2Bgate&mcid=9b803e5fd7973e85afea154982078d17&qid=1758392713&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1

[lone flame]

yes

[regal moat]

That’s a big link

[green marsh]

he clearly doesnt know how to cut down links smh

[lone flame]

https://www.amazon.ca/TRUTHEAR-GATE-Dynamic-Headphone-Interchangeable/dp/B0D5QYNSW3

[sleek lily]

hes getting affiliate money

[regal moat]

Would you say this beats out
Linsoul Tangzu Waner
Linsoul 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2
KZ EDC Pro
Linsoul QKZ x HBB

[regal moat]

Don’t know how on mobile yeah

[green marsh]

why are the kz and qkz still on your list 😭

[regal moat]

Haven’t removed the 2 yet

[regal moat]

Was gonna update the list when I got home, am out shopping rn

[steel escarp]

I used a Feliks Elise as tube preamp for my Holo Bliss

into Susvara

man

I need a tube preamp

it was very pleasant

[regal moat]

Okay despite removing it I initially due to its vocal focus I am gonna buy the Tangzu Waner when I get home

Thruthhear gate is second up tho

[broken grotto]

wut?
At 500Hz -> -π = -180º
At 1kHz -> -2π = -360º = 0
A 1 ms delay would look like a 0º phase difference at 1kHz if you're using phase mod 360º. It's still a delay, just phase wrapped.

Comparing different frequencies is completely invalid for delay. different ω values. ∆φ(f) is frequency dependent. Headphones' drivers and amp output impedance behave like a filter. this can add extra phase and group delay. If L/R channels are identical, this extra delay cancels only when measured at the same frequency and same stimulus. Using different frequencies breaks this.

[sleek lily]

Let's say we are modeling the delay based on where we expect the ngt of each impulse to land. If we expect a delay of 1ms from.the recording plus the additional 1ms the 500hz signal lasts, that's out ideal output. If we have a load that adds 1 more Ms to the 500hz signal than 1khz, our itd has changed by 1ms @broken grotto

[green marsh]

that doesnt apply when its not the same signal being played to both ears

is the damn point

[broken grotto]

okay. A time delay means that the entire waveform is delayed by some τ, yes? The period (which is 2ms for 500Hz and 1ms for 1000Hz,) is not part of the delay; it just sets how the phase corresponds to time at the given frequency.

saving that the 500Hz signal lasts 1ms longer is mixing the period with the delay. A 500Hz cycle always lasts 2 ms, regardless of delay.

[green marsh]

the way youre trying to claim it applys if one ear is 500hz and one is 1000hz is not an applicable scenario with itd/ild

[sleek lily]

If it's the same frequency yes, but in the real world we rarely just have the same signal playing in both channels.

[green marsh]

in the real real world we do

[broken grotto]

so, let's go ahead and do this:

suppose that x(t) is a sinusoidal function in time. If we write the general form, we have:
x(t) = Acos(2πƒt + ø).
where:

• A is amplitude,
• ƒ is frequency,
• t is time in seconds,
• ø is phase offset in radians.

if you have a right channel that is delayed by 1ms, then it's just
x(t) = Acos(2πƒ(t-0.001) + ø). When the load adds its own reactive phase, the full right-channel waveform is:
x(t) = Acos(2πƒt+ø - 2πfτ - φ(f)).

• - 2πfτ is the fixed 1ms delay.
• φ(f) comes from inductance and resonance.

[sleek lily]

That's why I chose to model it with an impulse, because we have a digital device creating this signal with an actual start point in each channel. If the pgt starts 1ms later we will expect that 1ms delayed 500hz signal to be off by 2ms when we compare the first ngt. If we have an inductance that adds 1 Ms more delay for the pgt and ngt, the whole signal is now delayed by 2ms plus the 1ms length for the ngt's from the frequency differing

Using a single frequency single cycle waveform is a really oversimplified way to represent this, but it's true to the behavior conceptually.

[broken grotto]

again, phase shift versus time shift.

you'll see more when you take DSP.

or should

idk

[zenith pawn]

honestly i think you'll be pretty alright no matter what you buy
some can feel more spacious, i think especially open back headphones, but iems are still fine. 95% of the directionality is coming from the game's sound engine because the only thing your head/earphone can strive to do is most accurately reproduce the sound cues your brain is listening for that the game is generating

just play csgo or something instead of minecraft if you need good sound directionality 🧌

[lone flame]

why keep discussing with him

[broken grotto]

I am a long-standing adjunct that used to teach signals and systems, and it makes me very concerned when people say stuff that is kind of correct

im less about telling him he's wrong and more trying to explain why he's mistaken than caring about the audio, hoping he learns.

[green marsh]

the problem is this guy has been like this for years

[lone flame]

so in short.
He doesn't learn

[broken grotto]

a lot of the time, audio people have the right idea but they lack the experience on the in-depth side to really understand the underlying principles.

you can think of stuff in DSP like sampling rate.

most audio people know 90% of what you need to know

the last 10% is what people in the systems engineering industry know.

[lone flame]

well. Most audio people are probaly musicians. they don't need to know the science behind

[broken grotto]

yeah, exactly

[lone flame]

all they need to know is how to use their gear and plugins etc

[broken grotto]

so sometimes if someone knows they're dangerous enough to understand the science and math behind it, they're less likely to take audio people's word for it; because they don't really know why the thing they're doing is the thing you do.

i totally get it.

[lone flame]

But its just problematic if people say stuff that is not really correct and doesn't accept a "thats not correct tho"

even IF people explains stuff he tries to be in the right

[green marsh]

the problem is this guy is the pinnacle of knowing just enough to mislead

and to proudly declare theyre right even when proved wrong multiple times

[lone flame]

i try to be correct as possible. if i don't know a thing thats sad, but i try to learn/understand it correctly

[green marsh]

whether it be psus, ssds, headphones, audio whatever

[lone flame]

like i started measuring speakers with a UMIK-1
watched some vids, took some measurements and after that i asked it it was correct

guess what. learned alot on DC rather in these videos i watched

[broken grotto]

there's takes in audio that I disagree with from a systems perspective, but i don't really care enough to argue with anyone about.

because realistically, as long as you aren't trying to tell me that you need to have xyz thing when, mathematically and systematically, you don't, we're good.

[lone flame]

imo. Audio is "easy" on the surface. it only gets stupidly complicated if you start digging deep

[green marsh]

many things are 'easy' on the surface

[lone flame]

the science will make it weird again... espacially when it comes to psychoacoustics where we don't know muchg generally

[broken grotto]

yeah, and a big concern I have too is that, my trade, i am a systems engineer, with an EE background; so if we want to talk about the electrical side, i'll give it all the beans

but i really do not know that much about the.... biological, side

[lone flame]

tbh. who does? its our brain

[green marsh]

the brain might as well be magic

[lone flame]

our brain is just weird fucking shitty complicated

[broken grotto]

there's people who's whole job it is to characterize and figure out why things sound the way they do to us, which is pretty interesting.

[lone flame]

its like Windows, MAC and Linux as one

with a language we dont understand

[broken grotto]

idk if anyone here does it, but once i went to a concert and there was a guy who's whole job it was to impulse response test the venue

[lone flame]

"i listened to APP3 when i took a shit. had to tell. 3K region was kinda off. after i wiped my ass it was alright again"

[broken grotto]

lmao

[green marsh]

the brain is like a supercomputer and a data warehouse in one

[lone flame]

And a overengineered DSP

we need to do more neuroscience

more science for our brainz

like. Nice that we know what out body does to sound. cool
Our brain takes this information and transforms that into "Bro WTF are you doing"?

Math and physics: 1+1=2

What our brain does

https://tenor.com/view/confused-white-persian-guardian-why-gif-10371245960573455153

[broken grotto]

my brain doesn't work because I like most Audeze headphones.

[lone flame]

same

my Hexa EQ is IEM guys worst nightmare

[broken grotto]

lol

[sleek lily]

@broken grotto I still haven’t had a chance to order the opamps for the unity-gain circuit, but I retook the measurements using a slightly lower quality amp to increase the likelihood of spotting any non-linear amplitude transfer. I also used a DAC to generate the signal, as @white gate suggested. Hopefully this provides a solid, agreeable set of measurements until I can build the unity-gain circuit and get even more accurate results with my function generator.

[zenith pawn]

psus and ssds is new to me, does this guy talk outside of audio-tech

[zenith pawn]

what'd you measure. how do you start

you just try and tune your room flat? and then figure out why things reflect or something

[green marsh]

hes an alt

[zenith pawn]

did he use an alt to talk about psus and ssd

[green marsh]

this is his alt

[zenith pawn]

what did he say about psus and ssds

[green marsh]

do you really want me to go into it

it was 5 years ago and all you need to know is it happened the exact same way you see him act now

[zenith pawn]

aw i thought you meant recent

[broken grotto]

Ngl I'm curious lol

[stuck bolt]

Gonna need more ltt stickers 😫

[verbal fog]

grr curse of my schitt modi fits so perfectly into my tv setup but i need it for my main setup too but im broke and i dont want to switch between them all the time

[green marsh]

in short he thought 12v ocp was more important than it is and thought that ssds having s.m.a.r.t. firmware meant that it had 15 year old error correcting

[verbal fog]

and my fiio btr5 gives me a ground loop and my pcs aux sounds fine but it doesnt sound as nice as my schitt dac

[broken grotto]

I do like me some good schiit

have lots of their stuffs

might I interest you in the Fulla

[verbal fog]

i got a modi and magni and it did me well but the magni couldve been more powerful so i moved back to receivers

[broken grotto]

https://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-2

it's not too bad, i use it at my laptop workstation

good enuff for an all in ne

[verbal fog]

it does seem neat but i use a cheap usb mic and that also probably cant do as much as an evil heavy receiver

[verbal fog]

it does seem decent

they do quite well

[broken grotto]

I also love how in the OS, when you select it, it says "I'm fulla schiit." because they have a sense of humor

[green marsh]

😭

fulla schiit

[verbal fog]

heh that is pretty funny

i was looking at their uh modi upgrade but its pricey but their features look really cool

[green marsh]

gaming dac smh

[broken grotto]

it's just because it has a mic input

[green marsh]

i know

[broken grotto]

I use it for work for that reason

[green marsh]

just use a apple dongle

[verbal fog]

if i feel like it ill bring my btr5 but i can cope with headphone jacks if i use iems

[broken grotto]

I mean, I use Audeze MM100's for work, idk if the apple dongle would do much for them 😛

i mean it might be fine

but also the mic is separate

[green marsh]

i use a razer blackshark for work

in white

[broken grotto]

I got that Fulla for like $99 on Amazon, so it's not too bad.

[verbal fog]

i like a lotta bass so small things arent inspiring and id wanna have an amp after apple dongle

i have faith in them though

[broken grotto]

I will also say that I have a soft spot for Schiit because their branding is funny, they seem like generally good peoples. so that's something worth it to me

[verbal fog]

mmhm thats fair

[green marsh]

they would get them plenty loud

[verbal fog]

theyre not some evil chinese brick wall company

[broken grotto]

I shall try later

[green marsh]

apple dongle gets hd600 to listenable volume and mm100 is more sensitive than hd600

[verbal fog]

yeah but will they shake your glasses,,

(with eq)

[green marsh]

ew

[verbal fog]

you just have to hit the lower frequencies more or something

[green marsh]

no headphone is going to shake your glasses unless youre playing bass at like 130 db

and at that point you either are deafening yourself or have a 50 db bass shelf

[verbal fog]

theres a chance

[green marsh]

literally no chance

[verbal fog]

probably not i have this evil though

but i also touch it often

but like uh some people say you cant hear under 20hz and i definitely get 20hz

[broken grotto]

goodbye everything in the interesting parts of the music i guess

[verbal fog]

somehow it performs fine

i use meze 109s so theyre very capable

[green marsh]

💀

[broken grotto]

ah yes, fellow meze enjoyer

[verbal fog]

props to them though for making headphones that withstand my abuse im really impressed

my dt1770s do not compare

[green marsh]

that scale is wack

why does it go to 1hz

[verbal fog]

i dont know but uh if you adjust 0hz itll ruin things sometimes

i was eqing a pair of speakers once and went too far left accidentally and it popped super loud and i blew a woofer

they were a gift to someone too and i had refoamed them but oh well mistake ill only make once

[broken grotto]

I just thought I'd share this.

on windows it omit's the "speaker," part

but weirdly my company issues me a macbook

so idk

[green marsh]

yeah bad things happen when you go below 20 hz

[verbal fog]

ive always been fine otherwise(when using capable stuff) but it is fun uh you get to really push equipment though but it is fun

[sleek lily]

Are you talking about the smart scholarship program by the department of defense? All I said about that is that I would have accepted it just to say I worked at the department of defense if they didn't change their name to the goofy ah department of war.

And I mainly just talked about power supply protections in the keyboard space, because people thought they were magical buzz words to claim whatever board they like has while ones they don't like lack, as opposed to a physical and identifiable thing.

Didn't really want to address drama, but like that's super disconnected.

[green marsh]

hmmmm

[lone flame]

my HS7 and my Car AND my Parents car xD

[sleek lily]

Thought you were gonna complain about be using the cheapest ssds for my bench and floppa and I glazing the EVGA t2

[lone flame]

Yamaha HS7 in my room RAW

HS7 measured AFTER EQ in my room

I did some changes ib the bass tho. so in the bass it looks different now

This is my Ford Fiesta 2016 raw

it has a 3 Band EQ so i cannot fix it really

the dip on one channel is pretty normal. car speakers on both sides have a different distance

This is the ISUZU D-MAX 2017 from my Parents RAW!

with no effects on like "seat correction" etc

and this is after EQ

[lone flame]

broooo wtf is that

[lone flame]

oh nice

gosh i love FT1

[left verge]

Upgrading from a Recon 70 lol

[wise bane]

Does anyone here have any experience with wickedcushions? I need a replacement for the pads that came with my headset

[broken grotto]

never used them but I had good luck with dekoni

[wise bane]

oof

[broken grotto]

worth a shot

what headphones?

[wise bane]

Skullcandy Crusher Evo

[broken grotto]

yeah, dekoni would probably cost half as much as those anyway; i think wickedcushions generally has good reputation though

they seem to have pretty good reviews

[regal moat]

They have arrived

[wise bane]

honestly I dont mind a bit of a price premium if they last a good long time

[regal moat]

I think I am using them wrong

[regal moat]

Okay I think these are pretty sic and the the mic is crips

I think there is more base and clarity but hard to tell cause Idk what I am looking for

[left verge]

Fiio FT1 EQs I'm looking at

[broken grotto]

truthear gate!

they're pretty good!

i think anyway.

[regal moat]

I am pretty happy with them so far

[regal moat]

I am still getting used to having the different sized tips, and other stuff

Gonna have to give it a test in gaming once dnd is over

Is it normal for tips to fit better in one ear than the other?

[broken grotto]

yeah, human anatomy is weird

you may need different tips for each ear

right one uses L, left uses M or something like that.

usually it's not that far off

[regal moat]

I am trying that yes, the size down feel slightly small tho so rn I am guaging

[broken grotto]

but some brands offer ML, MS, stuff like that.

[regal moat]

I think the bigger one is a bit of a stretch but is a biit better

s,m,l,xl

[broken grotto]

I am a big IEM tip swapper

so like, I like to buy AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC tips

they offer in like s,m,l,ms,ss,ml, stuff like that.

[zenith pawn]

should I use different tips in each ear if the fit is the same but my left ear is like 30% quieter than right

maybe I should learn to do the sine sweep thing where you make an eq for your ear

[civic beacon]

Why is your left ear quieter than your right? Hearing loss? Defective headphones / earbuds? Source audio file / device problem? I wouldn't want different size eartips in each ear unless my ear canals were physically different enough, and I don't think this would really solve the issue of different volumes in each ear either.

[zenith pawn]

difference in hearing

[broken grotto]

it would not help

eartips should fit properly, and a improper fitting eartip will either just hurt or want to fall out

there's different kinds of eartips, such as foam and stuff

but idk that they make that big of a difference in sound to fix something like that.

[kind hawk]

if my speaking voice is between -12 - -24db but my gain is still above 50% does this mean i need a cloudlifter

[verbal fog]

i now own a freshly refoamed pair of advent graduates for my own personal use(ill test them tomorrow)

[lone flame]

uh

fr

you kinda have that stock

[lone flame]

lift them up

you get 5% sound and your b.. the real sound

[verbal fog]

ill probably swap them onto the stands when i test them

the goal is that they sound better than my boston a60s so its tough competition but i believe in advent

[left verge]

Left is stock

[lone flame]

are you that into harman?

[civic beacon]

Gotcha. In that case, I wouldn't use different eartips. I would adjust the balance (L/R) of the device outputting sound so it sounds correct for your ears.

[left verge]

It's an EQ preset for the FT1
I don't think i'll need it, but 🤷

[elder thistle]

mine looks like this

[proven herald]

hello guys, i am looking for headphones for around 70-100 euros. i need a new one for playing games cause the one i was using is broken

i play games such as rust and val

so i need to be able to hear footsteps properly

[elder thistle]

not familiar with footsteps on rust

[broken grotto]

looks like some mountains

[elder thistle]

nothing too crazy really, just a lot of them

[broken grotto]

could be art

[lone flame]

KSC75 are imo best budget headphones for gaming

they got no bass tho

[elder thistle]

also that's more of a scientific eq, not really a listening eq

[lone flame]

scientific eq?

[elder thistle]

it's very accurate to the tonality I'm hearing, but could still contain tiny shifts or incorrect slopes that hurt things time-wise

[lone flame]

so more likely a "Critical listening EQ"?

and not for "Fun Music"

[elder thistle]

what I really use is eq turned off, disassemble the headphones and put them in a box that remains untouched for months

but like I've mentioned before, eq/tonality doesn't affect me much

[lone flame]

also something you can do

[lone flame]

what do you mean exactly

[elder thistle]

it still sounds exactly like an ft1 regardless of eq or no eq

[broken grotto]

you mean to tell me you disassemble the headphones, like, complete tear down?

that's so extra

[broken grotto]

kinda hilarious though

[elder thistle]

and I don't prefer it differently with different tonality

[lone flame]

nah

not FT1

FT1 Disassembles itself

Also

[left verge]

"Headphones"

[lone flame]

If your Headphone still sounds "like FT1" you do something wrong imo

[lone flame]

that is an Headphone

and its damn good

[left verge]

Ear clips

[lone flame]

go get a headpand mod for 10 bucks

[left verge]

That was a very short lived issue

[lone flame]

Or if you want Peak Gaming headphones

[lone flame]

ik ik

still have the 1. FT1 and FT1 Pro version

[lone flame]

my discord bugs... can't see it 🙁

[broken grotto]

video no work

[elder thistle]

burh

[lone flame]

nopw it works

discord sucks

[lone flame]

poor FT1

[elder thistle]

this is how you properly access the screws

[broken grotto]

I mean...

you just... put them back in the box.

you do not need to disassemble them.

[elder thistle]

of course I do

[lone flame]

fastes way is.... throw them on the ground

[elder thistle]

they went through actually so much additional engineering trouble and cost to put anti-tamper discs above every screw

[lone flame]

iirc its just this damping material like next to the speaker

that is angled

you have to screw them through

[elder thistle]

no not that

[broken grotto]

i mean, if you are just trying to take a break from them, instead of disassembling them you just put them back into the (included) case, then put that back into the box. then, hear me out

put them in your basement or something so you have to actively go seek them out

no teardown needed

[elder thistle]

why are you so opposed to a teardown

[broken grotto]

unless i am completely misunderstanding something lmao

[lone flame]

i don't understand either

[lone flame]

https://youtu.be/Z1wUDIU2DlM?si=84vo70tONjKYd54x&t=430

this timestamp

[broken grotto]

simple. every time you assemble and disassemble something, you induce wear and tear on the components and mating surfaces. this can shorten the lifespan of an (already,) short lifespan of a product like that.

[lone flame]

he disassembles them without destroying them

[broken grotto]

needless tear downs waste your money.

[broken grotto]

that's not really how that works, everything is rated for a certain number of cycles.

think of the plastic clips on a laptop case

even if you're extremely careful, you will break some inevitably.

[elder thistle]

it would take a very high amount of disassemblies to get to that point

[broken grotto]

ideally, yes

i still just don't see the benefit of tearing them down just for storage.

[elder thistle]

unless I did it wrong. and of course it's only going to be opened once by me and probably never again by whoever buys it down the road

they take up more space disassembled like this

[lone flame]

but.. you destroyed them

[broken grotto]

why would you want them to take up more space

[green marsh]

this is a skill issue

[elder thistle]

why do I care about space

I don't

they're in a box because I haven't put them back together to throw them in the headphone bin

[green marsh]

if a few tear downs significantly reduces your products lifespan its either cheap chinese shit or something thats low lifespan to begin with

[broken grotto]

as someone who at one point had to characterize the cycles of certain RF connectors, it really isn't. it just happens over time.

some things are better than others.

[elder thistle]

it's still irrelevant

[broken grotto]

SMA versus N type, for exmaple.

yes, in the reasonable span of the product's lifetime, the amount of times you disassemble it should not create any issues. but when you start tearing it down just to store it, that's where you can start to run into lifecycle issues (ignoring that you may damage something in the disassembly or reassembly, remember, no matter how perfect you think you are, you will make mistakes.)

[lone flame]

have you watched his full video?

he didn't disassembled them. he straight up destroyed them

[elder thistle]

and I haven't put them back together because they're mid and are disqualified from a lot of future game testing for preexisting reasons

[broken grotto]

shortened the lifespan, no?

[elder thistle]

they are 100% functionally in tact

[lone flame]

he hotglued the outside of the cup, and lot of plastic broke 🙁

[green marsh]

used the what is it a 3/8ths drill bit? 💀

[elder thistle]

the earpads are hard to put on because they don't rotate

but they seal fully

[lone flame]

Well.
Watch some Africa Car videos. Lot of cars there are not really "cars" anymore. they still drive, but wirh like 80% of the parts that the car had out of factory

[green marsh]

sure but the majority of things aint like them coax connectors

[broken grotto]

this is true. still doesn't mean it's irrelevant to mention.

taking it apart once to see how it works is one thing, but taking it apart repeatedly is pointless.

[green marsh]

and i think the second half of this covers what you said

[broken grotto]

because i was agreeing with you lol

[green marsh]

lmao

[elder thistle]

if I'm going to review a headphone and make a repair guide, obviously the inside of the headphones is important

blowing through the anti-tamper disks is merely sending a message

[broken grotto]

i sure hope that video isn't your repair guide.

[elder thistle]

just footage for a review later down the line

might keep some of that for showing how to open them, of course the drillbit part being unnecessary

[lone flame]

but.. just unscrew...

[green marsh]

how was mr customcans able to open the cups seemingly without a drill press or even a drill

[lone flame]

found a russian youtuber too

[green marsh]

it seems he was unhindered by whatever anti tamper screen foiled you

[lone flame]

he just.... unscrews

yes there is that tamper foil above the screw

[elder thistle]

a screwdriver will go through it just fine

[lone flame]

but you can just... Screw through it

[sleek lily]

I think it's cool to be curious and want to tear things down tbh

[elder thistle]

gentle push

[broken grotto]

I thought he wanted to tear it down for storage and was very confused

[green marsh]

yeah but if you look at mr jacksons video above its more than just a teardown

[lone flame]

@sleek lily this is what he wrote

but for other it worked by just "unscrew the screws" instead of DRILLING!

[sleek lily]

Plus, in the context of headphones, screws and threads are unlikely to be a major failure point unless it's hifiman. They use some really soft screws lol

[broken grotto]

i 100% would not be surprised if some audio person was like, "to properly listen to headphones you must disassemble the headphones, store them in their box in a locked box with a timer in a climate controlled building."

[lone flame]

That's what i call "Passionate Burn In!"

[elder thistle]

generally when I first get a headphone I'll listen to it and then take a look at under the earpad, under the baffle etc. the steps taken to design a headphone are interesting, so are what driver's used, how the sound flows through the baffle filters, all sorts of stuff

[lone flame]

best would be if it still plays music 😄

[sleek lily]

Most logical audio myth ever lol

[lone flame]

well yeah. totally relatable.
But. You don't have to drill them

[elder thistle]

bruh I'm not serious

[lone flame]

He forgot the totem 🙁

[broken grotto]

I'm all for disassembly for investigative reasons, i just expected he was just tearing them down and reassembling every time he wanted to listen to them which is wild

[lone flame]

We need "How To Basic" for Audio gear lol

[broken grotto]

not sure if im just jaded with regards to audio people now or what

[green marsh]

there are no myths only unproven realities

[elder thistle]

"properly access" was me referencing the sheer disrespect an anti-repair product deserves

[green marsh]

💀

[green marsh]

i dont think a few stickers is 'anti-repair'

[broken grotto]

plus, from a real perspective i wouldn't suggest someone tear something down if you aren't willing to break it, is one thing worth mentioning.i suppose.

[elder thistle]

nothing would make me happier to see this thing sent in for an RMA and have a supervisor see what happened to their tamper stickers

just,

turned into massive craters

with the sole intent of creating a massive crater where it wasn't necessary

[broken grotto]

especially with audio, returns are a big pain for audio stuff apparently

i've pretty much never bought anything from headphones.com because if anything is on sale, it's "final sale," so you can't return it; makes me question what happens if i get a defective unit.

[green marsh]

you could just ask them 💀

[elder thistle]

their reviewers of sorts have given me a bad taste for the site

[lone flame]

Like in Europe. Not legal

no matter what. If you are NOT a private person. you HAVE 2 Years warranty by LAW

[green marsh]

how

[broken grotto]

I can also choose to buy from a different place that offers returns.

[elder thistle]

but also I mostly buy stuff used or broken

[green marsh]

like where? amazon?

[broken grotto]

I've had great luck with Bloom Audio

[green marsh]

most retailers that arent amazon have similar policies

[broken grotto]

bought all kinds of stuff from them, and the few times i had issues they took care of it very quickly.

[green marsh]

and not many other places have the 365 day return policy like hp,com

[broken grotto]

I'm sure headphones.com would probably take care of you if you bought a defective unit on "final sale,"

[sleek lily]

Unrelated to audio, but I got a cool pic of the microprocessor my evc uses. Might be cool to make some custom code for it

[broken grotto]

otherwise they probably wouldn't be in business as much as they are

[elder thistle]

got banned suddenly. I was a mostly respected member of the community, though of course I butted heads with some objectivist takes

[green marsh]

anyway the majority of retailers are like this tho

clearance = no returns

[elder thistle]

I am grateful for what I was taught there about measurements and such

[green marsh]

but how does that relate to the reviewers?

[elder thistle]

no comment

[green marsh]

they have 5 reviewers and like 10 mods

[elder thistle]

ultimately doesn't really matter though

[sleek lily]

I'm on Jackson's side here

[lone flame]

Well. You 2 tend to say stuff that aren't quite correct and sell it as fact

[broken grotto]

I get that, I just remember looking at like, multiple different things I was interested in and they were all "Final sale," and was kinda put off by that, since other retailers had them on sale and still offered returns.

[lone flame]

that is a reason to get banned on HP.com DC

[sleek lily]

Such as?

[elder thistle]

read rule 7 for me

case closed

[lone flame]

Should i scroll up to all these discussions with golden?

[sleek lily]

Dude who doesn't believe in math saying I say things that aren't true is wild 😭

[green marsh]

LMAO

[lone flame]

i believe in math

[elder thistle]

high on math??!?

[broken grotto]

oh apparently i bought my blessing 3 iem's from headphones.com

ok i lied, i have bought from them

[sleek lily]

I redid the measurements with a dac like he requested. The expected result still remained. The initial result may have been slightly thrown off by the thevenan equivalent resistance at the input being somewhat variable, but I still believe even that amp wouldn't be 100% linear. The point of that discussion and measurements though we're if it's possible for an amp to have an amplitude related transfer that isn't just a line.

[broken grotto]

i looked at your data.

it's the same because the real world sucks. you had unity gain.

I also asked you to compare with an excel spreadsheet to calculate the gain, which wasn't provided.

[sleek lily]

The most recent one I kept more simple. It just probed a DAC output which went directly into an amp and probed the amp output. I did all volume control digitally.

In a way makes it more realistic to a real audio setup too

[broken grotto]

you can even see your scope traces and see that your "non linearity," could just be attributed to noise.

i'll be honest, i have no idea why you are still barking up this tree.

[lone flame]

https://tenor.com/view/look-you-see-there-you-go-youre-welcome-my-point-gif-14559946

[broken grotto]

and if you want me to be serious with you, if you believe that you can reasonably prove against something multiple sources will tell you isn't a problem:

make a heccin dissertation out of it.

don't tell people on discord about it. if you're that sold on it, make it your research subject.

you might spend 8 years in grad school barely scraping by on those research grants because you can't find any data, but still.

[zenith pawn]

or don't know how to use a screwdriver

[sleek lily]

I don't believe it was noise. If it was just noise it'd show up in the fft and the measurement would likely see more fluctuation. (One measurement was pretty noisy at the moment of the screenshot but it wasn't really an outlier).

If I had more time id actually like to turn this into a more serious research paper, but I talked to a few professors about it and they all seem to believe it's just expected that an amplifier have some variance in gain related to amplitude, but be close to linear. I might be able to make it a more serious side project in a semester I have more time though.

[lean grove]

im so good at repairing stuff that whenever i do it, i'm able to successfully re-assemble it without even using all the screws

[broken grotto]

engine builder's logic

[sleek lily]

That's pretty skillful

[zenith pawn]

oh god not this again

[broken grotto]

most of my research was focused on joint RadCom waveforms as 5G was coming across the horizon

so you are starting to approach radar X-band frequencies with cell phone networks and their harmonics.

either way, you had professors basically tell you the same thing

that should clue you into it that if not even they are willing to agree, you probably have very small legs to stand on. Maybe a different school might have a crazy professor willing to throw his entire career into the fire but idk

there's much cooler things to research in grad school anyway.

like quantum computing.

or heccin lazers

[lean grove]

photonic computing also rad as hell

is that EE or would that be more physics

or material science

[broken grotto]

could be any of those

[sleek lily]

@broken grotto the point of the measurements were just to show that an amplifier can have gain vary to a small degree as amplitude changes even if not hard clipping because golden demanded i show it's even possible.

In grad school I'd like to focus on high frequency signaling tbh. Overclocking is my main hobby and it's basically keeping high frequency signals from fudging up lol

[lean grove]

can see how EE would be useful for circuit design and as long as the eggheads do the base technology

[broken grotto]

there's DSP, as well.

[lean grove]

oh yeah huh

[broken grotto]

most of your wave theory from Emag also falls under light, as well

[lean grove]

yeah but im thinking how capacitors and inductors would translate to photonics

if they'd be needed at all

you also get benefits of using different spectrum and weird behaviors with crystals

[broken grotto]

you'd have photonic analogs to those, really.

a dielectric interface being a "capacitor," and a magnetic coupling being "inductor"-like.

optical resonator being an LC circuit

[lone flame]

photonic processor chips 😄

the future

[lean grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/510681715484786710/1335340295939948575/BatmanThinkfast.gif

[lean grove]

possibly, yeah

[warm scarab]

@lean grove race me

[broken grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/future-squidward-spongebob-gif-4767609

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-bicycle-cycling-bike-biking-gif-7957069625040892725

[lone flame]

also wonder how it will affect desktop usage for a consumer

for AI models that would be like 50x speed

[lean grove]

nah

[lone flame]

but for Desktop? Everything so far is made for "either on or off"

[green marsh]

no thats quantum computing

[sleek lily]

Tbh, I think ai as the big buzzword is gonna die out before we have mainstream photonic processors lol

[lone flame]

quantum computing is photonic or not

[green marsh]

idk man

[lone flame]

ah wait im dumb.
Yes it is photonic

but the tech i talk about is

only Photonic processing

[green marsh]

quantum is the buzzword

[lone flame]

so it calculates stuff between 0-1 or 2

but at the end decodes it into 0 and 1

[lean grove]

old buzzward. overused and moldy. obvioulsy it didnt pan out. AI is the future now.

[lone flame]

Ai generated Headphones

[zenith pawn]

holy crap what kind of linux-ass font rendering is this

[sleek lily]

I find quantum computing to be super interesting.

[green marsh]

nah quantum computing will make gen ai possible

[lone flame]

that's.... Windows 10 and Discord Dark mode with 1080P

[sleek lily]

Makes me wish I went into cs at times

But then I remember that I hate coding

[lone flame]

it's that Science that we don't understand wtf is happening

[zenith pawn]

yeah linux having bad font rendering is a common joke

[broken grotto]

it reminds me of those sans sarif fonts that often were used for Korean years ago lol

[green marsh]

bruh use cleartype

fix your font rendering

[lone flame]

like we know some stuff. and we know what happens if you do this

[lone flame]

bro what?

[lean grove]

https://youtu.be/YDExtm9nk5M

[lone flame]

guys. do a screen and leak FONT

[lean grove]

not headphones but close enough

[zenith pawn]

wait what the hell do i suddenly have cleartype now

[lone flame]

bro

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-react-fish-react-him-thanos-gif-26859685

[lone flame]

i have the exact same

[zenith pawn]

nevermind that is the chromatic abberation of my glasses

[sleek lily]

Quantum computing is kinda like a different way to do compute that's really bad at certain task but really good in others. The cool thing is that it's rapidly developing with new algorithms and ways of doing things. A hot bed for research.

[zenith pawn]

false

even my linux looks better than yours

even without subpixel rendering it still has decent hinting

[lone flame]

i just have 1080P 🙁

[zenith pawn]

yours looks like antialiasing disabled and no hinting

that is with 1080p

[lone flame]

well yeah

i have shit displays

even tho screens are digital

[green marsh]

just search cleartype in the start menu and fix it

[zenith pawn]

that's completely unrelated

like it should look smooth and blurry

not blocky

it should look subjectively a bit better than linux because windows renders text slightly thicker than freetype

[sleek lily]

@broken grotto you said in grad school you focused pretty heavily on 5g right? How do you feel whenever you see some goober spew 5g conspiracies? lol

[zenith pawn]

but that's a bit of a tangent

[lone flame]

didn't do anythin

[broken grotto]

don't hug the antenna.

or do, i don't care.

[sleek lily]

Lol

[warm scarab]

any idea how I can incorporate speakers into a tripe horizontal monitor layout

[broken grotto]

how wide?

[warm scarab]

I can't even fit two monitors without one being vertical

lol

[zenith pawn]

head phone

put the speakers right at your ears

full size speakers right next to ears

[broken grotto]

oh oh oh i have an idea, i watched an ltt video earlier where the person had speakers under the desk. (i think it was a setup video.)

[warm scarab]

thinking how bad of an idea it is to ho horizontal but these things are like 70cm tall each

[sleek lily]

I need to get a home LCR meter. It'd be cool to test how inductive my headphones really are.

[lone flame]

@green marsh no difference 🙁

[green marsh]

double stack two of them vertically

[green marsh]

clearly you did it wrong

[warm scarab]

floorstanders

[zenith pawn]

why is it so messed up

do other programs do that

[broken grotto]

what even is cleartype

[lone flame]

WTF 😭
i did what it said me to do

[broken grotto]

lmao

[zenith pawn]

smooths the fonts so they dont look like that

[broken grotto]

oh ok

[green marsh]

did you go throuugh all the steps and choose the ones that looked the best

[lone flame]

yes

but it did nothing

[broken grotto]

do you have access to an Analog Discovery 2?

[zenith pawn]

even macos fonts look better than this

[warm scarab]

unsure if I can uh

fit these

[zenith pawn]

and macos has famously ugly font rendering

[broken grotto]

they don't have an LCR meter, but you can do an impedance curve with it.

[lone flame]

why u have mid field monitors as near field 🙁

[broken grotto]

those are huge what the hecc

[warm scarab]

because I own them and not near fields

[zenith pawn]

"mid field" with the size of those speakers that must mean the middle of the football field

[green marsh]

what are those like studio mains

[sleek lily]

No but I should get one

[warm scarab]

yeah

[warm scarab]

no

lol

regular floorstanders

I just room eq abused them into working

[lone flame]

[warm scarab]

look it works

a lot better than I would have expected honestly

[zenith pawn]

room eq is copium, simply assemble a room that sounds good

[warm scarab]

you make it for me

go on

[zenith pawn]

nah i just use headphone

[warm scarab]

thats what I thought

coward

[green marsh]

ok please build me a completely perfect room for free then

[zenith pawn]

i have the same room everywhere

[lone flame]

me too

[green marsh]

cope

[sleek lily]

@warm scarab that's a chonky mic

[warm scarab]

its a c1

[lone flame]

bro never used a speaker in the shower

[warm scarab]

its pretty average bro

[zenith pawn]

i have not

[warm scarab]

idk about u tho

[zenith pawn]

the last time i used speakers was at school

[lone flame]

see. you lack experience

[warm scarab]

speakers are just better man idk

[green marsh]

speakers are simply superior to headphones

[broken grotto]

I should buy speakers.

[warm scarab]

unless you really want that directionality

speakers are just

yeah

[zenith pawn]

speakers are superior yet every room has to be corrected

[warm scarab]

way fucking better

[lone flame]

True. If you want speakers. Just get the Razer Soundbar

[zenith pawn]

i'll get a razor and make a soundbar out of your speakers

[lone flame]

that would be quite a big Soundbar

[warm scarab]

youd have to be pretty stupid to fuck up a room eq anyhow

[lone flame]

you need to measure anyways

[warm scarab]

if you can click on 5 buttons in a row you probably shouldn't be allowed to go outside

[zenith pawn]

i won't because i just use the headphone that sound good

[zenith pawn]

i can click on 5 buttons

[green marsh]

cope

[warm scarab]

oh my god i have to hold a measurement mic for 8 seconds this is fucking intolerable

[green marsh]

even 305p beats 99% of headphones

[warm scarab]

well it wont ever sound as good as a speaker

[lone flame]

What Headphones?

[zenith pawn]

the vibrations of your arm while holding the headphone must be accounted for

[warm scarab]

yeah what headphones

[zenith pawn]

🤓

[warm scarab]

if its k1k or a stax

perhaps

if not then nah

just cope

[zenith pawn]

razer cracken v3

[warm scarab]

im going to cracken your skull

[lone flame]

[zenith pawn]

oh that was not supposed to exist

apparently that is a real headphone

[warm scarab]

gods plan

[zenith pawn]

which one you want first

[sleek lily]

Kvl

[zenith pawn]

= 0

i got the answer

thats the right hand side

[green marsh]

??????

[sleek lily]

True

[green marsh]

kraken is like THE razer headset

[zenith pawn]

i googled it and only the v2 popped up so i tried to make up a fake one by saying v3

because i assumed it would have shown me the latest ones

[green marsh]

oh

bruh

[zenith pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/razer-gif-26089859

[green marsh]

thats why you chose an arbitrarily large number

[zenith pawn]

this is peak audio

[green marsh]

smh

[lone flame]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[zenith pawn]

it doesn't get any better than the radioactive green

[green marsh]

like iphone 69 pro max air

[broken grotto]

https://bloomaudio.com/collections/closed-back-headphones/products/fiio-ft13

[zenith pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-apple-iphone-apple-iphone-17-apple-iphone-17-pro-apple-iphone-17-pro-max-gif-2030004583983522426

[lone flame]

its like FT1

[broken grotto]

I didn't even know those were a thing that exists

[lone flame]

but in expensive

[broken grotto]

fair enough lmao

[zenith pawn]

reddit says the ft1 suck

so i'm afraid you aren't allowed to buy them

[green marsh]

fostex by fiio

[broken grotto]

FiiO FT1 but three times the price!

(it's not really 3 times the price but i thought it was funny cuz FT-13..)

[lone flame]

Reddit says if you don't shit in your bass port, the sound quality will be distorted by 35%!

[zenith pawn]

no they don't i think that' sfake

[lone flame]

they look and seem to be better build

but sound is uh.

[broken grotto]

every time I go on reddit I remember why I shouldn't go on reddit

[green marsh]

reddit is fine except if you go into certain subs

[zenith pawn]

r/icecream is the most wholesome sub

[lone flame]

imo respect for archieving tons of bass with different pads without affecting mids and treble

[warm scarab]

most of it is shit

get real

[lone flame]

do they have "Mettbaby" flavour?

[green marsh]

the parts im on are fine

[zenith pawn]

idk

but i go on there for buyer's advice

[warm scarab]

redditor 🫵

[zenith pawn]

false

[green marsh]

i just stay in the weeb corner

[zenith pawn]

i use discord far more often than reddit which is probably worse

[warm scarab]

i went on reddit for the simracing subreddit tbf recently

it was okay

[zenith pawn]

i need to do some more sim racing

[lone flame]

with some people here in that chat yeah

[zenith pawn]

wish i had vr

[warm scarab]

same

[green marsh]

same

[warm scarab]

I have a really good wheelbase though so im happy on that regard

[lone flame]

same

[zenith pawn]

i tried to do an autocross course but literally all corners are blind

because too low of fov

[warm scarab]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/732506693199593565/1384299412624510976/PXL_20250617_012236464.jpg?ex=68d1ce4b&is=68d07ccb&hm=bcb569436c489009a3cc3b557e762463202846fa6d2cfa55afdb1cb9818752f8&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/732506693199593565/1384299385323520050/PXL_20250617_001137867.jpg?ex=68d1ce44&is=68d07cc4&hm=f46da1dccdefa8a34c735e3c2cd77dfaa784d615119dd411776029e7bc855139&

rate wheelbase lmao

[zenith pawn]

what the heck

[warm scarab]

16 newtonmeters by the way

that will be 1600$ 😎

[zenith pawn]

how much is a g29

in torque not in price

[warm scarab]

around 2nm

and its not direct drive

[zenith pawn]

that sounds about right

[warm scarab]

it can only apply 2nm when uninterrupted, not static

[broken grotto]

9/10

I love it

[zenith pawn]

the steering on the g29 feels like a honda odyssey irl

[warm scarab]

i tried to measure the peak nm on this yesterday with a scale and a metal ruler

it broke the fucking ruler and launched the full metal scale

my mom yelled at me lmao

[zenith pawn]

what was this measurement setup like

[warm scarab]

the measurement for nm is that you attach any stick onto a motor

account for the distance of the stick

[broken grotto]

I especially enjoy the power bar of a breadboard

[warm scarab]

activate the motor and have it press against a scale

and measure its weight

[broken grotto]

I have done that before

[warm scarab]

lol

I was like

I could 2 way solder this but like

do I really want to

[zenith pawn]

why do they measure the torque output of engines in energy

[broken grotto]

now that one breadboard, you'll go to use it next time and be like "WHAT THE HECK it's missing the power rail!"

[zenith pawn]

i will leave that question to brew

[warm scarab]

its not really they weigh the output on a scale

like a literal scale you use to measure your weight

[zenith pawn]

the most i could find is that newton-meters is actually joules per radian

[warm scarab]

tbf has been going surprisingly strong

i expected something to come loose by now

[zenith pawn]

but that doesn't make any sense

[broken grotto]

naw, it'll be fine

[zenith pawn]

yeah i was talking about something else

[warm scarab]

its just weight at 1 meters of distance

[zenith pawn]

combustion engines they measure in energy for some reason, i think it somehow works out in the end once you multiply it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-pound_(energy)

[warm scarab]

they kind of work different

[broken grotto]

engines apply rotational force to it's crankshaft. This is the force x distance from the axis of rotation.

[zenith pawn]

that would just sound like it makes torque though

[broken grotto]

because it does

Torque is the fundamental output.

[warm scarab]

handsnapper 9000

[zenith pawn]

yeah that is what i would've thought

[warm scarab]

this thing actually scares me at 100% power

remember the speakers

I tried goofing at 100% power once and it launched the speaker on the fucking right side like a good 3 centimeters

and I just stopped

[zenith pawn]

because the power output of an engine is calculated by "torque" divided by time and that just sounds so weird

[broken grotto]

oh, are you trying to justify horsepower/kW?

[zenith pawn]

a horsepower is 33,000 foot pounds per minute

🧌

[broken grotto]

a simple yes or no would suffice, but i'll take that as a yes lol

[zenith pawn]

yeah

[warm scarab]

i cant believe hp is imperial

this is so fucked

[zenith pawn]

how is that supposed to make sense

it's not torque foot pounds

but i couldn't figure out what exactly is going on

[broken grotto]

foot-lb is torque

[warm scarab]

torque isn't hp

[green marsh]

yeah because power is work over time

[broken grotto]

P = T * w

[zenith pawn]

not in this situation though

[warm scarab]

I don't know how hp exactly is measured but when you go to bench your car

they tell you how much hp it has and how much nm it has

[zenith pawn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-pound_(energy)

[broken grotto]

where T is torque, and w is angular velocity.

[warm scarab]

because they serve different purposes

[zenith pawn]

i will do some more research later
that was just a question for the mind

[green marsh]

horsepower is the same power as joules and calories

[warm scarab]

audio-chat assetto meetup when

[broken grotto]

it depends if you'll listen to me, I can justify why we use it or not

[zenith pawn]

yeah but then why are we measuring "torque" in joules (technically per radian it seems) 😭

[broken grotto]

but if you want to do it on your own, all good.

[warm scarab]

shoot

[zenith pawn]

hold on can i do something for 3 or less hours and then come back

[warm scarab]

oh you are talking to bbavanc

your name

is so fucking hard to spell

[green marsh]

?

whos we

[zenith pawn]

engine people

[warm scarab]

people of engine

[zenith pawn]

i think it needs more context to understand what i'm saying because it's somehow not torque

and i don't know if i'm saying the right thing at all anyways

because i know you learn from physics 1 that power is the rate of work done per time, and work can be done by a force or torque applied for a distance

[warm scarab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-MH4sf5xkY

[zenith pawn]

https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/93735

[broken grotto]

oh gosh not that guy

[zenith pawn]

wtf whats wrong with him

he's the best

[warm scarab]

idk man first google result

[broken grotto]

his voice

drives me insane

[warm scarab]

lmao

[zenith pawn]

wow

[warm scarab]

its not even that bad honestly

[zenith pawn]

he's great

oh hold on a second

guys i will be back in 2 hours and then resume the thinking process on this

[broken grotto]

i'll give you a hint

joules are scalar.

is torque scalar?

[warm scarab]

skyler we need to cook

[broken grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/yeahmrwhite-breakingbad-gif-9579350

[broken grotto]

ie, joules don't have direction attached. they're directionless, wandering with no real purpose.

torque has a direction.

we consider joules a scalar, meaning it has no direction, and torque a vector.

that is, torque times an angle gives you energy in joules. torque itself isn't energy, it's the potential to do some work per radian of rotation.

[zenith pawn]

@broken grotto I think it might be that when numbers for torque output of an engine is given the crankshaft radius is divided out or something for sanity reasons

actually not the radius maybe its the angular velocity that its divided by

I gtg

[warm scarab]

#audio-tech simracing meetup when

[broken grotto]

I never really got into simracing, but I've lived in areas where we could have fun with a real car

although simracing is probably cheaper

[warm scarab]

i find that people really underestimate simracing

most of the redbull drifting championship practices for championships on sim

and there are now mandatory sim sections to gt racing which the oldstyle drivers really hate

there is a guy called ryan's road to rally on yt

dude practiced on rbr, dirt and wrc a ton

got 1st place podium in his first ever rally

got 1st place podium in his class on an international rally in his 2nd competition

having abilities that translate from a videogame to real life is just a very good luxury that most digital hobbies dont have

[broken grotto]

I was pretty involved in the car scene during undergrad lol, I had a Nissan 180sx, if you know what that is.

[warm scarab]

i know it

good cheap platform that is now completely ruined by how damn expensive it is

fuck me

[broken grotto]

went to uni in Japan, this was very long time ago

I was much younger and way smarter

[warm scarab]

i found one for 20k usd

[broken grotto]

lemme compare to how much i paid for mine way back when

[warm scarab]

interesting

studying in japan is a unique thing to do "a long time ago"

[broken grotto]

not american

[warm scarab]

that explains it

ig the username isnt for show lmao

[broken grotto]

lol

I paid 8kUSD for mine

[warm scarab]

back when?

[broken grotto]

2001

[warm scarab]

cars condition?

[broken grotto]

it was used

[warm scarab]

yea like

how used lol

how many km if you remember

[warm scarab]

15k usd in todays money

interesting

its way more than I expected

[broken grotto]

i think it was in the 60,000km+

[warm scarab]

thats not bad

cost is kind of a lot ngl

[broken grotto]

you don't normally see cars sold with 100k+km on them in Japan, those normally got yeeted off to New Zealand or Australia

[warm scarab]

actually i take it back thats really good

I was like "oh its only 170hp"

then I checked the car weight

[broken grotto]

lmao yeah they're really fun

[warm scarab]

jesus 1.2kg

yeah i bet that thing just bolts into whatever corner you point it into

thats an incredible hp to weight ratio

[broken grotto]

I like mah nissans

[warm scarab]

Id kill a person for a skyline

like

any

[broken grotto]

when I moved to the USA the first thing I went and did was bought a domestic muscle car

why not

[warm scarab]

that may be a good or a really bad thing

[broken grotto]

it was pretty hilarious

[warm scarab]

is it like a cliche that goes fast on a straight line

[broken grotto]

I didn't realize just how much fuel it would burn lmao

[warm scarab]

that just doesn't turn

[broken grotto]

I got a Challenger, so it's a boat

[warm scarab]

yep

meme muscle car

[broken grotto]

but i am pleasantly suprised at how it handles. for how big of a car it is, and how heavy it is

[warm scarab]

i mean cars not bad but

[broken grotto]

it actually doesn't handle that bad

[warm scarab]

i like swifter cars like miatas

or the 180sx you mentioned

[broken grotto]

yeah but.. cmon... I moved to the USA. i wanted a muscle car.

[warm scarab]

sure fine

[broken grotto]

the other option I had was to go out and buy a big truck

[warm scarab]

but imagine how much a skyline back then would have costed now

you could have sold that shit for like 150k

[broken grotto]

but the only thing trucks do is attract dudes with facial hair and that already happens to me too much here

[warm scarab]

an r34 in usa went for like 350k recently

insane

[warm scarab]

tbh you can argue 90% of the trucks in america dont do anything aside from just eating fuel and not carrying anything

i will never comprehend the fondness of trucks in america despite people not carrying anything with them

[broken grotto]

I heard it was all marketing

they marketed that it was safer in a big truck than you are in a car

and people believed it because apparently people can't really think for themselves anymore.

[warm scarab]

ive frankly never heard a truck owner say their car is safe

or that they got it for that reason

but maybe that was the initial reason and it changed over time

[broken grotto]

fair enough, i have very removed perception of that because i haven't lived in the USA that long

but all i do know is that it's really funny watching the guys with big lifted trucks

and they're flying all over the road because it doesn't drive straight.

[warm scarab]

lol

[broken grotto]

you're real cool bro, you know how to waste money truck bro

made your truck worse

and you paid for it!

[warm scarab]

manliest thing ever

id do a more sensible thing