audio-tech

[broken grotto]

in your ears, you won't have any of that aliasing.

you just don't hear it.

[elder thistle]

not sure where the 3db number golden gave comes from

seems like he was citing an exact dac or test subject

[broken grotto]

per Nyquist, anything above aliases back into the baseband; that filter must be present, because the aliasing is indistinguishable from a real in-band tone.

this is true for any system being sampled.

[elder thistle]

you don't need to tell me that

one sec

wtf fl studio browser died

[broken grotto]

i guess i just don't understand what you are trying to achieve

[elder thistle]

I'm asking why do humans want lowpass filters on their dac's so badly

why would there be audible consequences for not having one

[broken grotto]

the TLDR is that the ear isn't the RIGHT kind of low-pass filter to make a DAC output mathematically correct and systems-safe.

honestly i am not sure where golden got the 3dB.

I have an idea, but i can't confirm so i won't say i know

[elder thistle]

ears do something like this yes?

[livid ruin]

it is sufficient for most headphones

this looks anything but overkill

well, so it adds a flavor to music no?

which means it’s inaccurate

if that’s the case

[broken grotto]

I mean, i'll be honest: not an ear expert. however, i can reiterate that your ears do not enforce Nyquist the way a digital low-pass does. If supersonics (>20kHz,) they are simply just not detected. They don't fold back or alias. That's why we still need the electronics low-pass filters for ADC/DAC systems, because the ear's natural "EQ curve," just isn't sharp enough and does not solve the aliasing and images problem.

[steel escarp]

Its class A. It will have some pleasant distortion. Overall clean sound tho

[livid ruin]

so will my cheap dacamp have clean sound aslong i don’t mismatch it with some 0.01% sensitive iems or powah hungry planars

[broken grotto]

maybe that helps jackson?

[livid ruin]

pretty sure a $150 dacamp is enough for your susvara

[broken grotto]

if that doesn't, I can try to find some other resources but

[livid ruin]

no need to spend whatever you’re willing to spend on that overkill almost pc psu looking amp

like filtering your signal with that many caps over will not yield anything but diminishing returns

you’re just better of adjusting your headphones on your head or having an extra hour of sleep

[broken grotto]

oh.. also, the cochlea is a mechanical system.

[livid ruin]

instead of working so much to waste that much on that thing

[broken grotto]

it's a biological sensing limit rather than an engineered cutoff

unless you want to start cutting your ears, i guess.

might be kinda painful though

so don't

[livid ruin]

also, if you overdo it with volume certain stereocilia can shutdown and make the frequencies less audible,

[elder thistle]

it's it's own filtering system kinda

[livid ruin]

also your brain can adjust to certain frequencies

[elder thistle]

there are two tubes that sound travels down

[livid ruin]

ther be too much science to music

[elder thistle]

the spiral makes it so there's a change in length while keeping the same position radially

[broken grotto]

sorry, i didn't say that right for the context, we refer to it as a mechanical/hydrodynamic system because it isn't electrical in nature.

we just seperate those systems because they have different parameters

[elder thistle]

and this makes a null/boost interference pattern throughout different points in the tubing that correspond to different frequencies

and in those points is celia / nerve hairs that pick up sound that exists in those spots

uh or something like that

anyways here's about as gentle of a lowpass I can get away with for the 16k-24k-32k example

but the frequencies are instead 4k-6k-8k

we have the theoretical hearing limit at 5k

and the frequency trying to be heard 4k

so that's 32db/oct

and here's 96

you can see the resulting sound level with the blue bar on the left

[broken grotto]

I must be misunderstanding something because the rolloff happens at 5k on that plot.

you want the filter to have it's roll off just before the Nyquist frequency,.

[elder thistle]

that's our theoretical human hearing limit in this example

nyquist is 6k. the signal is generated by 2khz AM on the 6k signal

here's the 96db filter at 6k

it's essentially the same level as the 5khz 32db and 96db filter which was our analogy for human hearing

[broken grotto]

so i found this with a quick google search

https://www.compadre.org/nexusph/course/Frequency_response_of_the_human_ear

it shows this plot:

going by that, and not what your DAW tells you, (I don't really trust that, and you're asking about why the ear can't be your filter,) the ear just is not anywhere near an ideal filter.

[white gate]

one could say....the treble sincs

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[steel escarp]

[white gate]

filter effects are cumulative. If you have a treble attenuation, that'll add a treble attenuation even if a filter later in the chain (incl your ear) is present

a) Because again, effects are cumulative.

b) As well as the effects on the signal directly, downstream components can be negatively affected by the presence of near-full-scale ultrasonic components.

I think generally, the fact that everyone from TI to AKM to ESS to Rohm to just about every proprietary DAC manufacturer uses a nyquist reconstruction filter (even if not perfect) should stand as reasoning that there is merit behind it

[elder thistle]

this is pinna interaction, not human hearing limits

[elder thistle]

I don't get this part

like yes, filters add to eachother, but in this example we're concerned with an electronic near-brickwall lowpass filter around nyquist, vs no filter

and what I'm confused about is why the filtering in our ears isn't enough, or would cause some kind of change in the audio that a well-implemented electronic filter would spare us from

as well as the -3db thing

in both examples, -3db isn't taken away from the audible band (in terms of filter frequency response, anyways). or at least not past our reference point: the person's hearing

[zenith pawn]

Doesn't this all only apply to someone that can actually hear some of the frequencies in that low pass transitional attenuation zone (whatever its called)
So if you can't hear more than 20 kHz, then these differences shouldn't be perceivable?

That's what I've always seen. The thought was that there are no humans that can hear 20 kHz. Maybe that's outdated. But it's what xiph says, and where a lot of this "impossible to perceive" idea comes from, the first few sections before he gets into sampling theory https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Obviously the ear is not a brickwall filter but what if the ear "filter" in most people falls off far before the DAC does?

what if the line of the last hair falls off at, say, 18 khz

[zenith pawn]

Re: the reconstruction filter on a DAC cannot be perfectly brickwall

[broken grotto]

yes, because the universe hates me and my math

still doesn't mean we can't model things that way as an approximation

[zenith pawn]

Read what I said

Just trying to figure out the population that it matters for though. Like personally I can't hear 20 kHz so the fact the filter attenuates imperfectly above 20 khz I should think would be inaudible

[broken grotto]

maybe if the person stares at one more graph, they can hear it?

imho we were in nitpicking territory there, but still fun regardless

I just love the prior me being like, "pfff good enough send it to fab." compared to the audio industry being like "MUST BE PERFECT"

even though the stuff we were using was, in some cases, millions of dollars. puts the 3k amp to shame, price wise.

[zenith pawn]

What

[broken grotto]

I find it funny how critical audio people generally are over stuff that when we were making multi million dollar radar systems, we didn't care nearly as much

[zenith pawn]

I am trying to get actual information here

Not just put people down

[broken grotto]

overall observation, it's not that deep. Anyway, to answer the one question I see, from a systems perspective:

it means that they'd never notice whether the DAC filter is cutting off at 20 kHz or higher.

if, you say, have a biological hearing loss above 16kHz, you wouldn't notice if the DAC filter is cutting off at 20, 22, or even 18kHz.

[zenith pawn]

I mean to ask whether golden also agrees

That's what I think as well

If there's too many words in what I said then idk what to tell you

[broken grotto]

this is what i answered.

[zenith pawn]

Thanks for the support

[broken grotto]

at the end of the day, that filter isn't there for you

it's there such that Nyquist is enforced.

I think in audio, their biggest thing is getting the steepest roll off at the appropriate frequency, which is more important at a sampling rate like 44.1kHz.

[zenith pawn]

Yep

[white gate]

The best way to think of it is that a sinc function filter is ensuring you also get flat FR in the audible band, it's not JUST doing the lowpass part.

If you did no reconstruction, either in analog with NOS R2R or just a digital zero-order-hold, then you get significant treble rolloff. Digital PCM audio at every stage from recording to digital production to playback is intended to use a sinc reconstruction filter. If you do not do this, then you end up messing with the FR

So if you had no filter, the fact that your ear may or may not attenuate stuff above 20khz isn't the point, you still don't have flat FR in the part that you CAN hear

And that then still ignores the detrimental effects on downstream components of having an enormous amount of remaining aliased/ultrasonic content

Basically, the ADCs and DACs all having proper sinc reconstruction filters means that beyond any limits of their own accuracy itself (and the smaller effects of their filters not being 'perfect'), you can pass a signal from a DAC to an ADC plenty of times and still come out with the same audio content.

Whereas if you weren't using a filter, you'd be attenuating treble by -3dB every time you did a D-A conversion step

At the end of the day, the first task of a DAC is to have a flat FR, hence the reconstruction filter is needed

The 'get rid of unwanted ultrasonic products' is kinda secondary

[elder thistle]

right

[elder thistle]

is there mathematical evidence that a steep lowpass not at nyquist, e.g limit of human hearing, doesn't produce the same tonality depending on if a brickwall filter exists or not at nyquist?

at least on the order of things we could then hear

sinc function is cool and all, but it's a function of the filter choice, not necessarily a function of filtering that will reconstruct the audio

[broken grotto]

Its just the impulse response of the brick wall filter the sampling theorem relies on. You can absolutely use other reconstruction techniques.

Its just that using the sinc turns out to be very good.

[elder thistle]

that makes sense yes

[white gate]

Yes, a FR measurement

Oh sorry I misunderstood what you meant

yes, you can have the lowpass be lower than nyquist, this is called an apodizing filter

HQPlayer's two best filters for example sinc-L and sinc-M, one is a non-apodizing filter which cuts off at exactly 22.05khz, the other sinc-M is an apodizing filter that cuts off at 21khz

[elder thistle]

our ears will always behave as an apodizing filter then, right?

[elder thistle]

how did you get something like this?

I'm getting different results with my own testing here

I made a 48k .wav file of a 4khz saw wave that was stretched out in a way that repeats each sample 4 times. so a 1k saw wave with a 6khz nyquist

without a brickwall filter, we're getting these levels for the harmonics shown on the left

only the first 5 are sound in this example

when the filter is switched on, the 5 harmonics do not change in volume

am I missing something?

[lone gorge]

What kind of filter are you using

[white gate]

A DAW and/or the plugins themselves are applying reconstruction in most instances.

Even if you view something in Adobe audition for example the 'waveform' isn't the actual sample data. If you zoom in you can see the samples with the green line being the reconstructed waveform

And actually this one is a good example. This is a high frequency tone. If you had no filter (ie just go directly to the sample value, then move to next, no reconstruction) then the amplitude would be lower (and no longer accurately represent the sine it's supposed to due to the unfiltered high frequency components which in this case turn it into a square wave)

[elder thistle]

yes, that's why it was necessary to make an artificial 6khz nyquist

the 48k file looks like this

[white gate]

Well at 6khz it wouldn't be a nyquist frequency. Nyquist specifically refers to the frequency of half the sample rate

But as per the earlier point, a low-pass corner frequency lower than nyquist itself is fine, you still then achieve an 'accurate' reconstruction, but you lose whatever is inbetween your corner frequency and the nyquist frequency

you don't HAVE to be at Nyquist

But Nyquist is the max you can accurately reconstruct to

Many DACs when playing hi-res content for instance, say 192khz, don't have a cutoff at 96khz. They often go lower, or maybe just start rolling off at 25-30khz and slowly attenuate before 96khz. Doesn't really matter too much.

The challenge is specifically with 44.1khz (and to a lesser extent 48khz) content, since you have almost nothing inbetween the Nyquist frequency (22.05khz) and the audible band (generally agreed 20khz). Which means you have to have a filter that attenuates VERY fast. And with the compute power in most DACs this isn't possible. So they compromise, either by rolling off early and sacrificing audible band treble, or by not attenuating fully by Nyquist and leaving some aliased products remaining

Topping D90 filters for example.

Two of them are steeper, leaving <20khz untouched, but still not actually fully attenuating until 24khz so there will still be some aliased content remaining.

The others in this instance actually both attenuate treble by a few dB AND fail to attenuate until well above 30khz so will leave lots of unwanted ultrasonic content remaining as well (these are likely intended for higher native sample rates)

Contrast to the Chord DAVE for instance, which attenuates nearly instantaneously at exactly 22.05khz and leaves everything else below it (ie: all the actual signal content that can be accurately reconstructed including the 20khz-22.05khz stuff) intact

But this takes a ton of compute power

Much longer filters also inherently add delay, since you need to incorporate, and therefore wait for, a lot more samples in the math. So what comes out of the actual DAC will be delayed since it can't start working on the correct output for sample 1000 until it's got all of samples 500-1500 for instance (number will depend on number of filter coefficients)

This is also why a lot of DACs have short, and minimum phase filter options. It can be useful in production/recording situations where you absolutely need to minimise latency as much as possible

In fact the MScaler has a normal mode, using the full 1 million coefficients, but a pretty substantial delay. And then a 'video' mode which uses a far more basic filter, with shorter delay, so you can still use the DAC for watching movies etc without audio being desynced/delayed

[lone gorge]

looks over this and takes notes while taking a break from learning Dante

[white gate]

And then there's NOS DACs where you can have effectively zero latency since there's no filter at all. Holo May in NOS for instance has 0.2ms latency

[lone flame]

Dumb question.
Why do lots of DACs have issues with 44.1 16bit or so?

like the Centauri had HUGE issues about that iirc from your video

[elder thistle]

but that aliasing, granted the rest of the chain replicates it without issue, wouldn't be audible, right?

because if I have hearing that becomes a steep lowpass at 16k, then I am ensuring frequencies near nyquist and above are destroyed. so aliasing in the audible range wont be born

unless our ears dont do this

[white gate]

That is the part that we honestly don't know.
There are no proper studies specifically on the audibility of ultrasonic aliasing that I am aware of. So there's never been a statistically known answer.
But regardless of whether the DIRECT content of it is in any way audible or perceivable, there is then the issue of the INDIRECT effects of it.

Many amplifiers for instance could perform poorer in the audible band itself if there is strong very high frequency content present.

ADCs can also be overloaded/clipped by out of band content, which then modulates/shows up as added distortion in the audible band. So depending on how you'e either testing, or asking the question, we can also say with some certainty that there ARE at least situations in which the indirect effects will cause certainly audible issues at lower frequencies.

[elder thistle]

gotcha

that would be a cool study

I've seen some mastering engineers talk about ultrasonic distortions in some tweeters, saying it caused ear fatigue

not that I'm convinced that's true

[lone gorge]

Inaudible stuff can fatigue the ear

[elder thistle]

it can damage organs too

I just dont see why such tweeters would have a lot of distortion high up, and why that would be overpowering compared to just loud treble

[white gate]

Yeah the two main effects that we have pretty solid evidence for are:

• Infrasonic content can often be directly perceived through other senses even if not directly 'audible'

• Ultrasonic content can cause measurable changes in brain activity, and/or directly felt ear-fatigue, even if those same individuals don't report being able to directly 'hear' the stimulus

[elder thistle]

it is common for professionals to become idiots when they talk about something just 1 step away from their exact expertise

[white gate]

I'm not sure too many have issues specifically with that sample rate?

The issues on the centaurus were pretty bad but specific to that dac. I've never seen behaviour as weird as that one tbh.

That being said, it was somewhat common for older dacs in particular to have higher jitter when using 44.1khz specifically over USB instead of 48khz.

This was because USB runs at a clock of 48Mhz which divides nicely into 48khz (48000/48=1000), but dividing 48mhz by 44.1khz gives you 1088.43537414966..... Which gets a bit trickier to convert to nicely and keep all your timings tidy

Fractional PLLs can be a pain. (which incidentally is also the reason 10Mhz clocks for high end audio are silly. You can't divide 10Mhz by 44.1khz OR 48khz easily....so every dac I've tested has performed worse when using an external 10Mhz clock.

But hey, big expensive shiny box so people still buy them and report positive transformations of their system 😅

[elder thistle]

at least upsampling is really good these days

think windows uses 16 point sinc, not 100% sure

[white gate]

Ehhh for the most part. I mean, the filters in most ADCs/DACs are 'ok', but I can count on one hand the number of DACs I know of with filters that manage to technically conform to Nyquist theorem (ie: don't attenuate at all under 20khz, completely attenuate by 22.05khz)

Windows audio is unfortunately still terrible for its own reasons. I don't think it's the resampling itself, cause tbh the filter looks similar to most modern DACs. But even when not doing any resampling, it still messes with audio so often. Other artifacts and weirdness show up but I've no idea what's actually causing it

[elder thistle]

are they getting a perfect lowpass with an algorithm or something?

[lone flame]

Topping made some Firmware updates for the Centaurus

iirc they "fixed" the issues

[white gate]

It's not a perfect low pass

[elder thistle]

o

[lone flame]

v0.40

v0.41

[elder thistle]

I meant the dacs that can conform to nyquist

[lone flame]

both of these firmware updates where past your review

[white gate]

For windows it's pretty similar to the rolloff in an ESS or AKM chip or something

Though exclusive mode is fine, that's truly bitperfect, same as ASIO

[lone flame]

but idk what really happened with the DAC

[white gate]

It's just WASAPI shared/MME that are the issues

[white gate]

Yeah they did email me about it. Unfortunately I've not been able to test/verify at all as Topping unfortunately made this thing IMPOSSIBLE to get back together 😅

The ribbon cable connecting the display/controls is so short that you cannot both slide the unit back into the outer shell deep enough for that to be connected AND get your fingers/hand in there far enough to do so.

It seems topping does it with a specialised screwdriver tool that can reach the interior screws holding the front plate on, but I don't know what that tool is or where to get one.

So unfortunately it's stuck in two pieces on the shelf. I have emailed topping about it so hopefully can get a replacement unit to do a follow up

[lone flame]

is the screen imporant tho?

it should work without one
And installing new firmware should be the same on all of these kind of Topping DACs

it could be possible to navigate thorugh the software via guidelines or how its called in english

would laugh if Topping does the "FiiO" move with the FT1/Pro
Just send you screws and the screwdriver

[white gate]

Unfortunately yeah, can't check the previous issues without being able to change the various settings

[elder thistle]

woah.

did you mention it in your review? I know lots of people who would buy something else if they knew what topping was doing against repairability

[lone flame]

Repairs do not measure well in the income

maybe Amir will measure that somedays

[elder thistle]

repairs measure very well in the income

[lone flame]

But not if someone like Golden would do it by himself

[elder thistle]

do you know how many people would be using their headphones from 10 years ago if they knew how to repair them

[lone flame]

well. most people get a new one

but most people habe shitty cheap audio stuff that is not worth to be repaired

[elder thistle]

because they don't realize how easy it is to repair them

[lone flame]

if you have a $1000+ headphone

it start to make more sense to invest for a repair

[lone flame]

depends on what is broken

[elder thistle]

does it?

[lone flame]

yes?

imagine the transducer is broken

like.

what to do

order new ones? xD

[elder thistle]

that's very unusual

and there are ways to fix that, it's just harder

[lone flame]

most headphones sold are in ear anyways

and its mostl the battery that dies

[main spoke]

need a headset for “gaming”
do not need a mic
i DO need wireless over 2.4ghz dongle and NOT bluetooth
dont need anc
prefer mesh ear pads to whatever the alternative is

budget under £100 ($130)

[lone flame]

Cloud III Wireless S

[real rain]

Guys is my dt990 pros 250ohms black edition fake or real?

[steel escarp]

what leads you to believe its fake

[real rain]

The font on the sides

Take an example from the websites photo

And the number 5 in the “250 ohms” is weird so idk

[steel escarp]

on the black edition, the sides are also black

tbh, you should try the blender mod on the dt990

I can recommend this

[real rain]

Nah fr dude

[steel escarp]

do they sound weird?

[real rain]

My amp didnt arrive yet so i cant determine

[zenith pawn]

did you buy it from a suspicious place

[real rain]

No from a audio store near my house

[steel escarp]

I think we are being baited

[zenith pawn]

by a master one could say

[main spoke]

anyone else second this/give alternatives?

its too expensive in the UK, £130

[lone flame]

but

you have the black edition

like

its black

[real rain]

Look at the font of the one you sent and mine

Looks fake to me

[lone flame]

where did you bought yours?

[real rain]

A audio store near my house

Do i return it or?

[lone flame]

u have packaging etc?

like original box?

[steel escarp]

Its a dt990. You should return it just for being a bad headphone

[real rain]

Lemme check

[real rain]

Might

[steel escarp]

get the Fiio FT1 Pro

[lone flame]

HD560s

[steel escarp]

or that

[lone flame]

bcs same price range

also i dont find any normal DT 990 that is purely black

he might have modded them to be black but idk

[steel escarp]

no the black edition is black...

[lone flame]

but ye i would give it back

DT 990 sucks

[real rain]

I found the box

[steel escarp]

btw there is literally no way that its fake. all the parts look 100% like real ones

[steel escarp]

its literally not fake

[real rain]

Alr good to know ty

[steel escarp]

only weird thing is that it doesn't explicitly say its the limited black edition version

maybe they never made a seperate box for it

[real rain]

Yeah

Those are the papers that were in the box

[primal fulcrum]

Headsets with a microphone arm foldable to the mouth is always superior to trendy bluetooth ANC headsets/in'ears for phone calls, right?

not to mention better than in'-ears, right?

Like the cheapest 5$ headset with a microphone on a foldable arm should be better even, compared to apple airpods pro etc mumbo jumbo?

[steel escarp]

airpods microphone isnt that bad

[sick terrace]

it's not gonna compare to something that's positioned in front of your mouth. bluetooth bandwidth limitations aren't great either

[zenith pawn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G0G4te7bMAAKYfG?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[livid ruin]

?????????? what

that isn’t real

if you use google lens or google “red receptacle” you’ll get products indentical to that

Literally the same expect for that golden strip or whatever it is that does nothing

they’re also coming from china

i hope they get sued

[stuck bolt]

Wtf is this snake oil

[zenith pawn]

Yes

[velvet hare]

im using x Crinacle Zero:BLUE2 iems, but ive been getting a "windy noise" so does anyone have iem reccomendations? less sensitive ones that are still very good (gaming)

tried using ferrite clamps but didnt fix the issue

[lean grove]

windy noise? is it like static? or hissing? and what are the zero blue's plugged into?

[velvet hare]

no not static, like passing wind, then it stops -

iems -> moondrop dawn pro -> UGREEN 240W charging cable usb C -> Moondrop dawn pro stock usb -> pc motherboard

[lean grove]

weird

[velvet hare]

im guessing my iems are too sensitive

[lean grove]

yeah idk. the dawn pro should be filtering out the noise

[velvet hare]

i cant go back to regular headphones now that ive used iems

man i love them

[lean grove]

https://jdslabs.com/product/synapse/

this would be cheaper than a new pair of IEMs

but im not totally confident that its your IEMs that are the problem

it might be your motherboard having dirty audio

plug the moondrop dawn pro into your phone. they usually have pretty clean USB outputs

if the windy noise is still there, then the JDS labs synapse won't fix your problem.

[velvet hare]

ill see if it works, i wouldnt be surprised if moondrop dawn pro ends up being the issue

i had issues with my past moondrop dawn

[lean grove]

i would be surprised. the dawn pro is meant for iems and has a pretty low noise floor

[steel escarp]

I didnt have any noise with my moondrop dawn pro

[broken grotto]

Audeze maxwell dongle dead on arrival, nice

another reason to shun anything wireless.

[steel escarp]

But what if your cable broke on arrival for wired headphones

[broken grotto]

I can easily fix a cable.

with this, I am stuck waiting at least multiple days for someone to get back to me

probably sit through a few days of troubleshooting that i've already done

I could use the Maxwell wired. but what's the point of that?

or bluetooth; but my pc doesn't support LE.

in many cases, I could buy a new cable on Amazon and have it delivered next day while I wait for a new one from the manufacturer

or, depending on the cable connector type, use one from another pair of headphones/spare cable.

[elder thistle]

are you that upset with it?

you are about to go down a particular road if you let yourself be talked into returns because of fanaticized products

[warm scarab]

dude shocked by how mid 990 is

couldnt believe its real

[elder thistle]

not that there aren't reasons to dislike the dt990 either

yes, it could be fake. even with the original box and a plastic seal

I've gotten one that was identical in packaging and all down to the bone

the earpads were good clones of the real pads

and the only other identifiable feature was opening up the dt990 and seeing a black m50x-esque 250r driver labeled XDEC

[warm scarab]

lol & lmao

[elder thistle]

there are reasons to like it too

more than a 560s or ft1 per se

[broken grotto]

I had the DT990's, i didn't care for them very much

i wouldn't say they were the worst things ever though

[elder thistle]

the closest thing I have is a dt880 600r. and a dt770 80r

in music production servers I've seen quite mixed opinions between people who've tried both dt990 and 560s

not sure which 560s's

music producers aren't headphone experts

[warm scarab]

music producers fucking suck at most hardware

[lean grove]

@warm scarab https://youtu.be/J-ziIpfSBB8

[steel wing]

Adam Audio D3V any good at 300€?

[real rain]

Whats the best headphones (OAT) for gaming/streaming/watching movies etc

[lean grove]

https://auribusacoustics.com/products/sierra-open-monitor

[real rain]

I appreciate the recommendation but do you have another budget friendly option 300$ max

[warm scarab]

what is oat

[lean grove]

oh well why didn't you say that?
i'm a big fan of the HD6XX.

[real rain]

Of all time

[real rain]

Forgot to mention

[warm scarab]

akg k1000

[lean grove]

nah k1k is dogwater

[warm scarab]

it should be more like delta air buds

[lean grove]

@real rain
but real talk there's not gonna be a "best" and trying to find the "best" is gonna lead you to a bunch of people saying a lot of different things.
the hd6xx is pretty good though. easily one of my favorite headphones. its very popular. easy to drive. sounds good. affordable.
aune ar5000 and fiio ft1 are also latest hotness.

its like asking whats the best car of all time

or whats the best bike. or whats the best food.

[real rain]

Yeah understood there are some mixed reviews in each headphones its people’s opinion

What i was looking for was a good recommendation and now that you gave me some ill take a look

[lean grove]

👍

[real rain]

Much appreciated

[green marsh]

well thats easy car - corvette c2, bike - honda goldwing and food - japanese

[lean grove]

burrito is easily the best food.

[green marsh]

its ok to be wrong

[lean grove]

and not the mexican style where its part of a meal.

the american one where it is the meal

15 inch tortilla wrapped around 1500 calories of beans, rice, and meat. cheese, onions, salsa.

[warm scarab]

japanese isnt food

[lean grove]

hot take

[warm scarab]

controversial take in 1940 china

[lean grove]

i used to think japanese food was the best, but after eating really bad japanese food in america for the last 10 years i know better

[warm scarab]

i mean

why do you default to american japanese food when talking about japanese food

[lean grove]

had some ebi yesterday that i had to spit out. the shrimp was like playdough

god-awful

could you imagine eating that every day?

[green marsh]

if you judge cuisine by the worst examples all food is shit

[lean grove]

excatly

do you know how hard it is to fuck up a burrito

[warm scarab]

not that hard honestly you live in fucking usa

try having mexican food overseas

[broken grotto]

wow built to order, nice

[lean grove]

i love mine.

the guy who makes them is also really nice

[broken grotto]

neat

[livid ruin]

people say how hard it is to mess up a pizza but it’s quite easy

dough tasting like cardboard, cheese behaving and tasting liek rubber

and let’s not talk about how some pizza makers put ketchup-like marinara sauce on margherita

cheaping out on fat content in cheese that goes on pizza isn’t the way to do business

[lean grove]

Who says that

Literally it's so fucking easy to mess up a pizza

Shit gets cooked at 800 degrees for 3 minutes

And you just listed half a dozen more ways

What moron out here is saying it's impossible to mess up a pizza

[livid ruin]

i mean so is to mess up a burrito

tortillas can also taste like shoe soles

[livid ruin]

reddit hmhmmmhm

“making a good pizza is really easy”
shows: pizza with dough/crust that of a cake

[lean grove]

Messing up a pizza and messing up a burrito are in two different ballparks

Entirely.

You don't have to cook a burrito. You microwave the tortilla. Fill it full of slop. Wrap it. Eat it.

Wrapping it doesn't even have to be good. You can have half your shit slide out the back and it's still gonna taste fine.

I've seen people assemble a burrito on the side of a highway with a cold tortilla, a can of refried beans, and a hot sauce packet

And it's still gonna be bomb.

you can fuck up pizza, therefore you can mess up a burrito is a non sequitur. Mess up a heart surgery while you're at it to show how hard breathing is.

Okay buddy

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-ominous-pointing-gif-256322563879403744

[verbal fog]

what is this

[livid ruin]

just like you have poor, acceptable, excellent pizza you can have poor, acceptable, excellent burrito

i’ve had burritos with disgusting and hard tortilla

[lean grove]

I bet you if I sat down and forced you to eat a toenail and twig burrito yeah it would be disgusting

But you have to legitimately go out of your way to make that happen

It is hard to fuck up a burrito. You can do it if you set your mind to it. But if you have the goal of making some delicious, then you're probably gonna be able to do it.

Unless you're a truly hopeless sorrowful "I can't even boil water" cook who orders out all the time, fine.

The bare minimum of acceptable burrito is heating stuff up and spooning it into a tortilla.

If you can't do that then yeah. I guess you can fuck up a burrito.

[livid ruin]

the process isn’t hard, where i live i gotta actually look for good quality tortillas because well, as a manufacturer you can cheap out on flour ig

[livid ruin]

ar ar ar

[cerulean nexus]

Yo what's better for gaming iems or gaming headphones if I play the same amount of fps and story games(fps like valo and story like gow. Gonna buy these specifically for gaming

[civic beacon]

Neither is better; rather, what's better is entirely preferential, as IEMs and regular headphones are 2 completely different physical formats.

Personally, I prefer full-size over the ear headphones (in my case, wireless with a mic) for gaming / music listening at my desk, and only use in-ear (monitors or earbuds) when I'm on the go.

[cerulean nexus]

Bro didn't they had like points to be compared on I js wanted to ask what's feels more comfortable for longer time what gives a wider sound frame or shit what gives more bas and shit for cut scenes

[civic beacon]

Ah, now you're asking the right questions! (you didn't mention anything about comfort or wider sound stages or more bass / treble in your original message.)

[cerulean nexus]

Js wanna ask is this ai generated?

[civic beacon]

Comfort is entirely preferential. Some people find over ear headphones super comfy for extended listening sessions, while others find they get super sweaty. Same goes for earbuds / IEMs; having something stuck in your ear canal for hours on end eventually hurts.

[cerulean nexus]

Ya then ima go with iems but still 2 questions left

[warm scarab]

depends on what you prioritize

and what your budget is

[civic beacon]

LOL I get that a lot. My messages are not from any LLM's - this is quite literally how I write. Full sentences, mostly complete grammar, and lots of information because I don't believe short messages really deliver good value if you're asking lots of questions.

[warm scarab]

if you had like 300$ id say r70x for both

if you have like 200 you'll have to make compromises

[civic beacon]

If you're set on IEMs, then what @warm scarab said. There are a variety of different sound profiles out there, especially in the IEM space.

[cerulean nexus]

Passive aggressive? But ok the tips were helpful ty bro u a real one

[cerulean nexus]

W bro

[warm scarab]

yeah i pay 20$ to host kirashibot with 300 tokens a month

dont @ him too much or ill be charged extra

[civic beacon]

Blunt maybe, but not passive aggressive at all. I am the way I am because ASD and ADHD make my brain the way I do be. Anywho...

[cerulean nexus]

At this point I'm thinking headphones because sound clarity with base and good imagery so ya ty bro

[warm scarab]

budget?

[cerulean nexus]

In my country around 5k lemme js convert it real quick to usd

Very budget around $60

But in my country I can find good headphones for that price

@civic beacon u were saying SMTH?

[civic beacon]

I would start your search with the following sites / guides. Once you have an idea of what might work for you, see if you have any electronics retailers near you where you can try out different headphones / IEMs / etc. And of course, continue asking questions here to help narrow your choices.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/best/earbuds-gaming
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/best/by-usage/gaming
https://www.soundguys.com/best-iems-for-gaming-136389/
https://www.soundguys.com/gaming-headsets/

[cerulean nexus]

Was thinking about doing so gonna go tomorrow

[civic beacon]

Excellent! Also, I don't recommend these sites / guides as a definitive "you must buy something they recommend" - I recommend them so people know what they should look for when picking out a product to meet their individual needs. Same with the NYTimes TheWirecutter review site. The products they recommend aren't for everyone, but their review process is solid.

[cerulean nexus]

I live in india finding models that's are actually good is pretty hard here

[cerulean nexus]

Ty bro

[broken grotto]

for what it's worth I ran a lot through a plagiarism checker that checks for LLM likelihood and it came out as 0% so

no academic integrity violation for you!

[civic beacon]

BEEP BOOP. Good job, fellow human. You pass the test and get to live to see another day!

[broken grotto]

i hate filling those out

every now and then someone submits a lab report that's all AI generated and im like bro

[zenith pawn]

anyone who writes in complete sentences is LLM output

[broken grotto]

you can normally tell because AI tends to write in a very predictable way, and i noticed that it loves using hyphens lol

i don't normally care that much as long as they were using it for a base or something, but when you submit the entire report just copypasta chatGPT's output, then I get annoyed.

[zenith pawn]

usually em dashes

[broken grotto]

my more modern policy (because it seems that even boards are loving AI now,) is to just cite it

at least that way if it's wrong or they did something that I never showed, i just know why

it's the most exhausting part of grading nowadays, honestly

sifting through ChatGPT garbage and half-human work

[velvet hare]

OH MY GOD

[velvet hare]

I THINK I FOUND THE ISSUE

THE ISSUE WAS ME 😭

everytime im drinking my 7up, i hear the windy noise

but it even happened days before when i wasnt drinking stuff like 7 up

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-doom-curse-stare-gif-31372491268388563

[velvet hare]

"Your IEMs seal your ear canal, so when you swallow fizzy soda, pressure changes in your ears get amplified. That’s the occlusion effect — you’re just hearing your own body’s sounds more clearly.

Ferrite clamps didn’t help because it’s not electrical noise — it’s purely physical." - microsoft copilot ai

[lean grove]

hmmm. i dont think thats it.

swallowing can affect the pressure in your ears

but the soda cant. your stomach isn't connected to your ears.

[velvet hare]

but for some reason everytime i take a sip of the soda, it comes back, that noise

[lean grove]

it definitely could be related

but pressure buildup in your stomach from fizzy soda won't affect your ears

so. right for the wrong reason.

[velvet hare]

thank you guys tho

im surprised about the answer, odd

im the reason for the windy noise

[civic beacon]

Pretty sure they're talking about hearing the noise when the pop drink is in their mouth / throat not when it reaches their stomach. This checks out though @velvet hare - your jawbone is very closely connected to your ears (tis how bone-conducting headphones work) so vibrations from your jaw will reach your ears.

[sleek lily]

What about fizzy beer?

🍺

[velvet hare]

yea when i first sip it, crazy outcome 😭

[zenith pawn]

That's actually wild wtf

[sharp bay]

Hey, I am new to audio stuff and currently have a LG FA162-DOU and still have an old Samsung PS-DW0-1 system, is it worth buying and av receiver and does someone know how good the sound quality of the samsung compared to the lg is. Is it worth buying a av receiver? (I just bought the lg system and i didnt know that the samsung system works) (its for my pc and the samsung is a 5.1 system)

[sharp bay]

And are these wires too small for the plugs? If yes is there a way to like use cable wire and solder them together to make them bigger?

[buoyant vale]

I don't think you can have something too small for binding posts

[warm scarab]

just buy like 10 meters of wire for 3$

[lone flame]

but your nose is actually

and the nose is connected to the mouth

there it MIGHT be possible

[lean grove]

Buddy which hole do you pour soda into

[zenith pawn]

I think your stomach is closed off from your windpipe the majority of the time

[lone flame]

still. mouth is connected to the nose and that is connected to your ears

not saying that it would make sense

[zenith pawn]

I think it's more connected to your bone structure than through the esophagus and into your nasal cavity via the mouth

[sharp bay]

Yes but can i use thicker cables and solder them together?

[warm scarab]

yeah but you dont need to

just splicing them is good enough

[left spruce]

Heyo all, I just picked up some used M-Audio BX5a monitors and one has a persistent buzz and the other sounds very muffled. Opened the buzzing one up to check for exploded caps but I think just finding some old glue

I have a multimeter and electronics experience, just not much with audio. If anyone has suggestions for what to poke at it would be appreciated

The speaker that buzzes gets a full crackle when the volume knob is in a certain range, maybe the knob needs cleaning?

[elder thistle]

are you sure about that

[lean grove]

Your ears don't pop every time you need to burp

You don't go deaf anytime you get acid reflux

[elder thistle]

the mouth is connected to the nose

which connects to the sinuses and then the ears

wait

[lean grove]

Are you really going to argue that the pressure buildup in your stomach can impact your hearing

Is that what you're gonna tell me

[elder thistle]

well I've choked on soda before and it messed with my ears

and eyes

[lean grove]

That's your throat

Not your stomach

Swallowing can definitely impact your hearing.

[white gate]

The stuff on that cap doesn't look like glue, looks like a leaking cap

Issue COULD be a ground loop (does the issue occur when nothing is plugged in?), but that cap doesn't look right

[left spruce]

That’s what I thought but it’s put on the connectors. Repair videos on YouTube mention the caps are glued down too

[left spruce]

In the last pic here you can see a strand on the diode, definitely brushed on and not leaking

But others have said that caps dying do make these buzz so I’ve already ordered new caps. Also blew one of the fuses (maybe it was partially blown already? I had tried swapping the boards and actual speakers between my 2 units, when I powered on the one that was buzzing the buzzing became much louder and I checked and saw that fuse was definitely blown now. Not sure if it was blown before)

[white gate]

does the issue occur when nothing is plugged in

[left spruce]

Yes, the issue occurs when nothing is plugged in. I checked resistance between the input pins and was seeing >10M between all of them

[white gate]

ok if it's occurring with nothing plugged in it's not a ground loop

so definitely a fault with the unit

could try replacing the caps, but the issue won't be possible to diagnose remotely unfortunately

if they're in warranty, contact the manufacturer for an RMA

[left spruce]

Definitely not. I got these used from my university

$80 for the pair but as-is

Gonna try doing the caps since those seem like the most likely culprit

Also gonna contact cleaner the volume knob

[sleek lily]

@left spruce do you have a multimeter

Measure for DC at the output and check if the unit is physically clipping

I can't guarantee that's the issue, but it's a good idea to rule it out

[left spruce]

Ya

[left spruce]

Wdym clipping

[sleek lily]

Like is the speaker physically hitting the chassis

[left spruce]

Don’t think that’s possible with this design

[stuck bolt]

Oof

[real rain]

Is the hd6xx good for multipurpose use? (Watching shows / gaming / listening to music etc.)

[lean grove]

Yes

[real rain]

Alr ty

[broken grotto]

Is the bottom of the board poke-able?

[left spruce]

Not easily unfortunately

[stuck bolt]

That's a cool screwdriver

[broken grotto]

If the caps are through-hole, do the following:

1. Discharge the cap (Very important)
2. Measure the resistance

[left spruce]

I was able to do that

Didn’t see a short across them

[stuck bolt]

Lick the caps for a fast discharge

[broken grotto]

But what's was the behavior?

Low resistance briefly, then greatly increase?

Just constant high resistance?

[left spruce]

Let me double check

One starts low and goes high, one stays in the multi megaohm range the whole time

The one that starts low is the one that looks more bulged ironically

[broken grotto]

so what does that tell you?

i mean, if you consider what a capacitor does, is that it stores charge.

you're charging it with your multimeter.

normally, you'd say that the one that starts low and goes high tests fine; which it does, that's expected behavior. if it's bulging, the electrolyte is breaking down. So that's a bad cap, regardless of the testing.

The one that has the megaohm range immediately, (provide you have properly discharged it before testing,) is absolutely dead.

[maiden badger]

Got them a day earlier than expected and I’m testing them out right now

So far they sound amazing

Honestly I don’t know why I expected them to be smaller than they are

[abstract fox]

Listening to high res audio from Bluetooth on my dac is amazing

[maiden badger]

after listening to music for a bit i can tell you these speakers sound really good

they definitely dont sound cheap

[zenith pawn]

to you they don't

[ocean pulsar]

creative has always had a bunch of products that punch above their price class

pebbles and CAL are the main 2 i can think of

[maiden badger]

I’m glad I chose what I did

I’m gonna enjoy playing games and listening to music with the new speakers

Aside from my headset the only speakers I had access to were the built in speakers on my monitor which are kinda weak tbh

[elder thistle]

as long as it's to your tastes, yeah

still pretty solid in most comp fps games, usually enough to tell 6 directions and easily hear through overlapping sounds

I like the dynamics or how "thunderous" it can sound in some games and movies, even if it doesn't have much bass without eq. calm but always ready to jump up in intensity

realistic vocals

I've met lots of people who aren't a fan of the sound, but that's how it always is with headphones

[elder thistle]

I'm not personally convinced that the pebbles are that special

I mean for $20 computer speakers, they have range including some treble

with a touch of imaging

but that's it. a piezo tweeter is the logical next step up, and I've had pc speakers with such a thing also for $20

think they were under the brand "blackweb"

it's hard to apply descriptors to a mass-produced 1.5" driver attempting to create treble

true glory is just ahead, in the $60-150 area

I got some $60 headliner hd3 speakers that are tonally unbalanced, but the resolution is ridiculous

beyond jbl 306p mk2

just by a little bit

it brings the fight to the craziest budget headphone offerings out there

and I shit you not, with some $4 pipes that slip right onto the bass ports without glue, it hits 45hz no problem

also some resistors on the tweeter

mc450 levels of non-stage instrument separation. albeit it's easier to achieve this with speakers than with headphones

[lone flame]

MC-450 🥀

[livid ruin]

yes

burp while you hold your nose and mouth shut

[steel escarp]

what the heck is that

man, this holo bliss amplifier is bigger than I expected on my desk ^_^

[livid ruin]

or blow your nose while holding your nose, if you overdo it your ears can go partially deaf temporary

[livid ruin]

overkill, overkill, poorly spent capital

[steel escarp]

I have this thing called having a job, which gives me the privilege of being able to spend money on things I like.

Wild, right?

[livid ruin]

@steel escarp should've bought silver-wired cables for that extra -6% impedance a meter

[steel escarp]

I aint getting silver near my audio system

copper only

sounds better

[livid ruin]

i have a right to call out people on poorly spent capital right

[steel escarp]

nah but fr tho, I couldn't tell the difference between level 1 and the KTE

98% of people get the KTE due to huge FOMO

[steel escarp]

the value is in the eye of the beholder

[livid ruin]

it's electricity...

[steel escarp]

I was joking

I am satisfied with my purchase in any case

[lean grove]

For now

[livid ruin]

why don't you buy a pretty gold at $117 a gram

it pretty

and it holds da value

limited edition

[lean grove]

Drink a vial of dimethyl mercury

[steel escarp]

You don't invest invest in something you don't understand

[livid ruin]

gold is a safe bet

just hold it and hold

[steel escarp]

you wouldn't buy actual good if you were gonna invest in it, but invest in a fund that tracks the gold price

[livid ruin]

i prefer having physical gold personally in case something happens

[steel escarp]

I have invested a lot in index funds

waiting for the next crash to buy big

[livid ruin]

same

[livid ruin]

actually, the next big crash is likely to happen in tech/ai and their suppliers, you can invest in multiple indexes that contain less amount of tech/ai

now

s&p500/1500 has too much tech imo, but it's not a bad choice at all even now, just gotta hold if it crashes

[dull trout]

some dood buying bitcoin high in 2025:

[livid ruin]

beware of dihydrogen monoxide

[steel escarp]

ikr, my coworker just bought at like 95k xD

Waiting for Revolut to get a license to trade crypto in the EU

[livid ruin]

i mean, not that bad if they cashed out

[livid ruin]

ew revolut

"0%" fee

but the spread is high

kinda misleading

[steel escarp]

my other coworker had like 200k EUR in XRP, and then it reached 3 euros. I told him to sell, but he didn't. Now its 2.50 euros again

[livid ruin]

also above like 1-2k here you pay like 1% fx fee

that's a bank robbery

[steel escarp]

that's pretty bad

I have only opened a Revolut account and put like 100 euros in it. I haven't really used it yet.

[livid ruin]

their fee is "0%" but even without the fx fee, you pay revolut a 0.12-.22% spread usually

sometimes more, sometimes less

[steel escarp]

I'll look into it

thx for the heads up

[livid ruin]

also, if you live in US your fx fee and spreads may actually be 0.002-0.005% (0.03% on smaller exchanges) from some providers, as of europe the cheapest is prob 0.10-0.17%

brokers like ibkr have such low fees depending on the plan

in europe we have only the fixed version of the plan so, minimum of 1.7 euros fee/commission

but in US you have choice, the non fixed is like 0.03% but you don't pay the two dollar fee, and the fixed is 0.002-0.005% but you gotta pay the two dollar fee (low spread)

if i recall correctly

but ib you may legit find a starting provider with 0% fx fee, and low spreads within the US

[supple pebble]

CMF buds 2 pro after a year of hard use vs new

[sharp bay]

I see no difference /s

[supple pebble]

I’m just showing how the plastic discolours over time, thought it looked interesting.

[steel escarp]

@lean grove

The damn thing sounds so good, im very happy

oh I already told you earlier

or rather, you joined the convo earlier

its properly heated up now

[lean grove]

Yeah I got some class D amps I can recommend you

[supple pebble]

Two hifiman planars and a holo audio bliss holy shit

[lean grove]

Yeah I'm afraid grey is deep in it

[supple pebble]

I’m jealous asf 😭

Best I got planar wise is the KZ PR3s 😭

[lean grove]

Try them out and see what you prefer

[steel escarp]

I doubt it would sound as good

@lean grove fun thing is, my Beyerdynamic DT880 sounds rediculously good on this thing

for a 150 euro headphone

not without EQ tho

weirdly enough has the same holographic mid range effect that it gives the Susvara

[lean grove]

Are you normally surprised about good amps sounding good or something

[steel escarp]

I heard the Niimbus US5 Pro which was mid with Susvara, the thing costs 6k, I also heard the Burson Voyager wich is 5k. Both were meh with Sus

I didn't know there was something better

[lean grove]

I'm asking about you being surprised about the dt880 sounding good

On the bliss

[steel escarp]

yeah, I never heard it sound stage this big

[lean grove]

Were you expecting it to sound worse than your violectric

[steel escarp]

about the same

[lean grove]

Like idk why you think it's a fun fact that a headphone sounds better to you on an amp you've been nutting over for the last 48 hours

[steel escarp]

some headphones don't change much when you throw them on different gear

[lean grove]

Some headphones indeed

[warm scarab]

take off the crust

[zenith pawn]

chubbyemu ass idea

[heady oasis]

Heart rate sensor 😭

[unique wind]

day one purchase

[steel escarp]

so the only thing that changed is more battery life?

and the heart rate sensor

[unique wind]

improved anc & transparency too

we'll have to wait to see if the tuning is any different

[dull trout]

this why mine is orange

https://tenor.com/view/sapo-gif-15065622896911975780

also pls put on a case, it helps alot

[ionic storm]

apple innovation baby

do the same shit and add a lil

[steep vine]

I mean people keep lining up to buy it so 🤷‍♂️

I've never used airpods aside from the first gen pros, those were bad, they had no bass. Is that still an issue with the new airpods?

[supple pebble]

Honestly I kinda like how it discolours, I still might get a case though. Also I only got a new pair cause one of the earphones had <2h battery and the other one much more.

[sleek lily]

I'm jealous

Care to make a charitable donation 🥺

[white gate]

Highest fidelity monitor stand

[white gate]

Bliss is quite a bit better than both of those imo

Honestly bliss is just a bloody great amp

[steel escarp]

Real

[autumn falcon]

Guys I really really need to get some good noise cancelling closed back headphones. Budget doesn’t really matter but wireless would be nice.

I tried on the Sony WH-1000XM6 today and really didn’t like the feel very much compared to the Bose QC Ultras.

Momentum 4 was a good feel too, but the ANC didn’t feel as good as the Bose. I also tried the AirPod Max but the headband felt nasty and they were way too heavy.

It looks like the Bose QC Ultra 2nd gen has just come out. Do you reckon it’s worth just pulling the trigger on that?

[warm scarab]

why not stick to the boses you have?

[autumn falcon]

I don’t have any rn

I just tried the 1st gen QC ultras in a store today compared to the XM6 and momentum 4.

I also tried a few B&O models but didn’t like any of them

[warm scarab]

well you liked it more than the other three

so why not get that

[autumn falcon]

I just didn’t get to try the 2nd gen

[warm scarab]

ah

[autumn falcon]

But are there any other options I should consider first?

[warm scarab]

its a pretty customer oriented market, doubt there are huge hidden gems

especially if you value anc

maybe get the 2nd get boses and give them a try, return them if you dislike it or think its not worth over 1st gen

[autumn falcon]

Total noise isolation is like the most important thing for me while still being able to take calls

[autumn falcon]

Yeah that’s a solid idea tbh

Work are paying up to £200 towards a head set for me and it’s something I’ll literally have on my head constantly when I’m in the office. So good ANC even without music playing is very important to me

I’ve tried a few industrial solutions such as wireless headset ear defenders, they cost like £1400 but I returned them because I struggle with the mounting pressure to wear for such a long time

[fervent cairn]

How’s edifier MR4s
I wouldn’t mind decent ish speakers for my setup, and they’re on sale now

[warm scarab]

pretty good

[fervent cairn]

66usd 🙏

[warm scarab]

what

how

[fervent cairn]

Sale
Also I’m Australian but idk if that changes anything

99aud for me rn
Which is like 65.48 usd

Should I buy?

[lean grove]

Yeah

[fervent cairn]

I’m not like hella into producing
Just like a casual gamer but I love listening to music and watching movies 🙏

[broken grotto]

For 65 usd yeah

Id buy them too even though I have no space for speakers if they were that cheap

[warm scarab]

65 usd is insane

id buy it in a heartbeat

[fervent cairn]

I bought the Edifier MR4 studio monitors 🫶

[elder thistle]

there are more resolving speakers for the price

[fervent cairn]

Already bought 💔

[elder thistle]

not sure about offerings in australia though

it's fine

my only complaints with the mr4 is they have very little soundstage and vocals sound overly dry and dead

if you haven't heard real speakers before you will probably be blown away

$60 is very competitive. I am just required to bitch about no-questions-asked recommendations

[fervent cairn]

yeah I'm using a 5 dollar bluetooth speaker as my main one
as well as like 20 dollar jbl headphones rn

[elder thistle]

they will be clearer and more realistic than IMAX theater speakers

just without the huge sense of power and surround stuff

[fervent cairn]

hell yeah

[dull trout]

how could you possibly do that with 2 channel speaker costing 60 dollars?

[elder thistle]

well 1, clarity here isn't defined by amount of channels

2. they're listening to the speakers at a much closer distance

3. these speakers are designed with accuracy in mind, not power

4. don't understimate the fidelity possible with nearfield

[warm scarab]

because imax speakers are shit normally

ive never been to a theatre with good sound

[elder thistle]

or... yeah sure

[warm scarab]

just okay at best

[elder thistle]

I prefer the sound of nearfields over theater speakers

not to mention that there are nearfield stereo speakers that can give you more of a surround-sound-esque experience than an actual surround sound system

the edifiers are definitely not that

but that's alright

[lean grove]

Third world country moment

[warm scarab]

^ stupid idiot

[lean grove]

Arrow points at yourself

[warm scarab]

light mode user

i rest my case

[broken grotto]

who uses light mode

[warm scarab]

this fool

[lean grove]

My monitor has ghosting problems on dark mode

[warm scarab]

ghosts arent real

[elder thistle]

dark mode user here

on a 60hz dell VA with more than 50ms black to white

get gud son

have your eyes not adjusted to the everyday circumstances of discord

but I sometimes wonder if my monitor is the cause of the framerate hiccups when I record my screen in 60hz

[ionic storm]

only valid reason

[broken grotto]

ok you get a pass

[fervent cairn]

I actually can’t wait for my speakers to arrive
I mean sure they’ll sound good
But I think it’ll just add that visual touch to my setup.

[fervent cairn]

Well they arrived

Nice

I ordered them YESTERDAY

And got next day shipping.
That’s kinda cool

I didn’t pay for next day shipping

[elder thistle]

i feel betrayed

[elder thistle]

how is it

[fervent cairn]

They arrived at my mums house so I’ll need to pick them up on the weekend I think

[elder thistle]

oh ok

[stuck bolt]

Idk if i told you guys how expensive it is to ship things into my region

I bought a new lewitt mic that was $119

And this is how much I paid to ship it in

[warm scarab]

punished for buying lewitt

[glass vessel]

yo what ist happening
i rate this nein point nein nein nein out of ten

[warm scarab]

just spitting facts bro

you know me

[stuck bolt]

Punished for buying anything, this island has everything except what you need

[warm scarab]

you paid 25% for import

the standard rate in like

80% of countries

you arent some special edge case this is literally almost how every country operates

[broken grotto]

And even if you do buy it in country, the 25% is just baked into the price

[stuck bolt]

I hate it 😒

[broken grotto]

such is life

[fervent cairn]

@elder thistle we gottem

[fervent cairn]

😔

[elder thistle]

does it rock

may want to angle them upwards at some point, whether with stands or rubber feet

[fervent cairn]

Yes
They sound very clean

[steel escarp]

not as clean as that mouse pad

[fervent cairn]

ik 😔

[young spear]

get some foam pleaaaaaase

also bank breaker

[fervent cairn]

what type of foam, where am I getting it and what am I doing with it lmfao 😭

[green marsh]

some foam to somewhat isolate your speakers from your desk

[fervent cairn]

ahh ic
so I assume under the speaker

they do have lil feetsies, but, I don't have enough room to stand the left one up without it going straight into my left monitor

[elder thistle]

these speakers don't need a lot of anti-vibration to not cause noticeable issues

[elder thistle]

my concern with how you have these laid out is moreso with a third of the woofer/tweeter sound slamming into the desk and bouncing back up

antivibration is still a good idea though

many cheap angled stands exist that would take care of this without adding much vertical clearance

these all seem pretty effective

my adam t5v's sit on top of foam ones similar to that top product

works great

they still don't have much imaging or soundstage, but I get the full detail potential of the speakers and everything sounds realistic

basically you want the tweeters of each speaker pointed towards each ear

[torn crescent]

Anyone have any recommendations for a Bluetooth speaker?

Budget is like 50-60 bucks

[sharp bay]

What are we thinking about that? Sadly I cant/want to ruin my neighbors live cause its my grandparents on one of the sides. But I would definitely do it

[fervent cairn]

I’ll have a look
I’m also considering just getting two stands and having the speakers point down at me from above the monitors

But those are kind of expensive so

[stuck bolt]

I think if they used a subwoofer with higher excursion, they might get better performance

Or sealed one end

Try different thing

[green marsh]

nah the comments say the bose processor is extremely important for its sound

[stuck bolt]

Something bose blows 😮‍💨

[green marsh]

i mean a modern driver would probably also sound a lot better

[stuck bolt]

It was a cool video but I think they could've experiment with it a little bit more

[green marsh]

like finding a working processor

[fervent cairn]

You could make that setup yourself honestly

[green marsh]

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/pvc-pipe-fittings/solid-core-schedule-40-pvc-pressure-pipe/pvc079120600/p-1444426398823-c-8571.htm

[severe hare]

guys, i need some help

i've been researching for a while for a bookshelf monitors

just bought(can still cancel) Edifier R1855DB for 151.9€

But iam still researching... i think i can find a better deal...
iam using just for some music and light gaming

i've been wondering if i should just get MR4
or maybe same a few bucks and go with Rb1280dbs

MR4 = 90€
Rb1280dbs = 110-120€

i dont have a DAC btw or amp.

[lean grove]

the r1855db looks like its for larger rooms or TV's
the MR4's are more for studio monitors and desktop use. i dont have any numbers to back this up, but i would guess that the MR4's are gonna be better at the desk and probably be a bit quieter in terms of noise and max SPL

[severe hare]

i made the decision to cancel the r1855db

was not confortable with the buy tbh

Shouldi get mr4? i would need an dac tho

[lean grove]

get a dongle dac. apple usb type c headphone adapter or any cx31993 chip dongle.

or just use your motherboard audio

you dont need anyhting too fancy

[severe hare]

Okay, i was afraid i would cost 150€ otherwise

Nice

Solid choice then?

[lean grove]

wdym?

[severe hare]

Vs others, ive seen soo many like diamond 220 or sony sc

But in europe is different pricing soo

And being a studio vs normal speakers

[lean grove]

eh. its hard finding a decent pair of speakers for less than $200.

edifier generally makes decent stuff

[severe hare]

I was trying to find elac 2nd hand but nothing

[lean grove]

on-axis with some floor bounce is what you're gonna be seeing at a desktop

MR4's are gonna give you a decent amount of bass extension compared to the other two

definitely wouldnt go with the wharfdale's based off these measurements

[severe hare]

alright, mr4 seem a good price-performance then

thank you!

[dense dove]

Anyone here happens to know or own Topping DACs?

If so, is it really common for them to have any sort of issues?

[lean grove]

are you asking because you think you might have an issue or are you asking because you want to buy one

[dense dove]

Might have an issues as it keeps disconnecting randomly through USB.

[lean grove]

weird. is there a DPLL function on your dac

[dense dove]

Should be

[lean grove]

raise that to as high as it will go and see if that fixes it

[dense dove]

Will try

[broken grotto]

ordered the audeze LCD-S20

wheeee

[stuck bolt]

If someone gives me 9.5k usd, I can give them a full range hand built speaker

[lean grove]

if someone gives me 9k usd, i can give them a pair of pre-built speakers and a subwoofer

[stuck bolt]

I gotta get them back to the shop so I can design and build some stands. And to get some photos.

Can't believe, as a photographer, I did not get any good photos of my build

[lean grove]

https://radiantacoustics.com/products/clarity-6-2

kinda crazy that for these you just need a sub that does 40hz and below

[stuck bolt]

They're pretty

I couldn't get purifi drivers shipped to me for a reasonable price

One of the reasons I didn't use them

It's a 3 way in the front

And two 8" sealed subs in the rear

Thats how I'm able to get down so low

[lone flame]

hi

have an D70 Sabre

Bought it. plugged it in. Set it up. Works flawlessly 😄

[next anvil]

anyone know any good open back headphones that are good for gaming but also things like audio/music and video editing for at most £200? i’ve been looking at these ones as point of reference

[broken grotto]

How much are the HD6XX?

They are $179 at drop, but idk if that's the same sans conversion

[next anvil]

can’t find them anywhere

[broken grotto]

Worth a try lol

Personally, the Sennies have done pretty good; i have the 6XX and i dont see why the 560S would be significantly worse

[next anvil]

ok

[green marsh]

blud is using pcpartpicker to look for headphones 😭

[next anvil]

well idk what ones are good to get

and those were just price references more than anything

[next anvil]

4 recommendations that have popped up

[broken grotto]

Why does that matter? Honest question

If you are shopping for a pc, why not? Its just an aggregator, no?

[green marsh]

Notice you said pc

[stuck bolt]

@next anvil can I recommend something I use thats semi open back

[next anvil]

sure

[velvet hare]

whats ur all time favorite iems that have super strong noise cancellation/good audio quality ofc

im using x Crinacle Zero:BLUE2 rn but i kinda want something with more noise cancellation

[lone flame]

If a headphone is good for music, it is good for gaming too

if it comes to sound

[next anvil]

ok

but what one should i get lol that doesn’t help me

[lone flame]

HD560s ofc

[stuck bolt]

https://a.co/d/fVPW5Lz

[velvet hare]

i have hd560s

theyre good, but i hate the surrond sound

[stuck bolt]

I stand by these.

[lone flame]

HRTF diff

[buoyant vale]

Careful guys if you say the name of that headphone again you will summon Jackson

[velvet hare]

https://tenor.com/view/triste-isolado-pensando-sad-isolated-gif-11165084073573897086

[stuck bolt]

Wow

[broken grotto]

I mean, yeah, but what if I'm on PC partpicker buying a pc, and happen to see headphones and factor that into the cost for the build?

idk, i kinda like that pcpartpicker has headphones; it's great for shopping for pc parts, don't see why it's bad for headphones

[stuck bolt]

I don't think its a bad thing

[stuck bolt]

Just built some stands for my speakers

Nothing too fancy. It's mahogany

And yes it's strong enough to hold

Hopefully

[broken grotto]

cool! what did you finish it with?

[stuck bolt]

Some old stain i had laying around, same as I used on my speakers

[broken grotto]

looks nice, good jobs

[kind hawk]

Is it worth getting used scarlett 18i16 4th gen for 300

[lean grove]

What do you need that many inputs and outputs for

[kind hawk]

Broadcasting

[broken grotto]

why not? worth can be measured with money, or it can be measured with the amount of IO you have

[lean grove]

Or it can be measured in the amount of time wasted by getting something overly complicated and trying to troubleshoot it.

[stuck bolt]

Aggregation

[glass vessel]

pc38x for under 100
if you want to spend more and more in audiophile direction then HD6XX is good at 200, especially if you have apple dongle for 9 bucks

[warm scarab]

huh

where is pc38x under 100

[kind hawk]

Hey i just got this is this a good audio interface

[green marsh]

💀

[elder thistle]

I wouldn't personally pay this much for a 560s

haven't checked what you're listening to yet, or which games

yakucho's idea about a headphone being good for games if good for music only works if you assume other players in comp fps are using lesser headphones than yours

playing the game skillfully still has the biggest impact in most games/gamemodes

but for example I'd never use the 560s in apex. lots of things go wrong (direction, distance, overlapping sounds, missing cues)

and I will never personally listen to a lot of rock and metal music on them given how smeared and f***ed up the sound can become

a true nails on a chalkboard experience

I also cannot confirm what hd560s you would recieve. there are 3 unmarked variants that apparently all sound different, though I can only confirm the first 2

and if the u.k has the same situation as the u.s, the headphones will not be the same headphones after you buy replacement earpads in a year or two. they don't sell the right ones

hopefully that's good food for thought and explains why a ~$130 560s is not an instant buy like many proclaim

[lean grove]

why are you asking that after you bought it

[fervent cairn]

They still wanna know if it’s good ?

[warm scarab]

shouldn't you ask that beforehand so you dont buy something bad

[stuck bolt]

It aint that bad

The software is kinda dumb

Just overpriced

[warm scarab]

#purchase-validation-chat

[broken grotto]

You could be even more productive and offer your insight

I would be genuinely interested in that.

What headphones should one buy if looking at the 560S?

[lone flame]

HD560s new for 100€ is a steal lol

yes. many people dont like the 5x0 chassis

but what headphone has that build and comfort etc at 100€?

and please no MC-450

like... HD560s had better mids, treble, further bass extension

what do you want more?

[sleek lily]

He560v4 is still a better option by a good margin imo, but hifiman recently really tried to screw me

So take my anecdotal experience into account too if you'd like.

I'm finally back to 0 money being wasted on credit interest

[lone flame]

Hifiman QC

and Planar

not like that planar is bad. but a DD is more durable

[sleek lily]

Both designs are usually pretty fragile when scaled to a headphone

I'd say planars are honestly less fragile to being damaged in an acoustic way but more fragile to tearing and outright not working as a result, while dynamics are way less likely to break in a way where it won't work, but more likely to distort and damage the diaphragm in a way that damages the sound

[lean grove]

Then they can plug it in and try it out and find out for themselves.

Asking if it's good after they money's been spent is just seeking validation. And if it turns out it was a shit purchase, it's just gonna make them feel bad.

It's not constructive in any way.

[elder thistle]

a $50 behringer alpha is built better and could be more comfortable

but of course, the real headphone someone should get always depends and is never something we can completely answer

[elder thistle]

oh I meant that last part as answering your question

if there is a default model to be recommended, it shouldnt be said to someone

[lone flame]

i like to recommend bcs of objective and intersubjective stuff

so what most people say and what the papers say

[elder thistle]

most people say because of the papers

[lean grove]

It depends on who makes them and at what cost. You can't say for sure that dynamics are more durable because there's too many exceptions.

[elder thistle]

you cant find consensus without looking at their use case and preferences

[lone flame]

most people said even if they don't like the HD560s its somewhat the only worth recommendation at that price

[lean grove]

Like pump 500 mW into a random planar vs a random dynamic and one will obviously be more durable than the other.

[lone flame]

meant most likey handling them

not just using them. more "how you keep care of it" bla bla

[elder thistle]

so to not use those in the recommendation process is a loss of critical information, resulting in harmful/misguided advice

[lean grove]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lone flame]

the diaphragm itself is more fragile than a DD
also the surface area is mostly 2-3x bigger

[lean grove]

You're not supposed to be touching either driver.

It just depends.

That's all.

[lone flame]

its easy to recommend the HD560s to that person

[elder thistle]

why

[lone flame]

its the cheapest option there, and its good 😄

[elder thistle]

how is it good without knowing what its for

560s isnt good for wiping my ass and burning it

but I would get more use out of it there

[lone flame]

from what he wants. the HD560s is the best allrounder