audio-tech

[elder thistle]

I don't make a habit of trying wireless products though

[granite drum]

you know what you cannot work with whatsoever ? DSD files 🙂

[elder thistle]

audiophiles and their damned obscure file formats

[granite drum]

(at somepoint in my life i send a mail to Ableton, for a feature request,... if they would considder files with identical names didentical if one had the wav or aif extention and they were missing but there was a file with an wv extention, then we could compress our stems for archiving without loosing teh abillity to play them when needed ,k even if it took a minute or 5 to buffer them to memory or som scrachdisk,... beats storing raw audio for 15 tracks + mixdowns for each set , a final mix and then a few masters ...

[green marsh]

no questions allows youre supposed to automatically know everything there is to know about audio just by joining the serverf

[sharp bay]

Ok maybe my ping is to high, i think tomorrow i will know everything

[broken grotto]

Just ask.

Someone will probably get pretty snarky but you may get an answer

[granite drum]

givven the amount of fallacies and bad info living in the audio communities by nature i dont think here is any question that can be answered in a simple way such that anyone agrees 🙂 😛

[green marsh]

fr

past anything thats absolute fact it gets squirelly

[granite drum]

try digital 44100khz 16bit master is objectively better for storing audio fthan analog stereiophonic 7" vynil

*as a format not as a medium since id did notspecfy the medium for the digital one

or if its not within the audio range humans can hear its not part of the music and can be disregarded , anyone who claims otherwise is beleving in fairytails... and is not to be taken serious ...

ditital audio is worse than analog because of the stapped stair signal it produces ...

i will never fall for the producers mixing console trick to make them happy

making music requires knowledge of music theory and some piano skills , kannot be done using a pckeybard and mouse ... 😛 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcLCwd-YzIQ jut to post this one 😄

[warm scarab]

this isnt true

I know many active sound engineers active in the industry who have gotten in with zero music theory knowledge

[granite drum]

ofc not , just wanted to post the video to prove that its not 🙂

[warm scarab]

thats not very readable sarcasm

[granite drum]

figured that the guy in the clip being https://djmag.com/news/angerfist-worlds-no1-hard-dj-dj-mags-top-100-djs-2023 might have helped to convey the sarcasm

[warm scarab]

i dont know who this is

[granite drum]

btw also false :
-or if its not within the audio range humans can hear its not part of the music and can be disregarded , anyone who claims otherwise is beleving in fairytails... and is not to be taken serious ...
-ditital audio is worse than analog because of the stapped stair signal it produces ...
-i will never fall for the producers mixing console trick to make them happy
so that could have helped aswell

[green marsh]

I mean i think anyone who believes in fairytales can safely be disregarded

[granite drum]

that claim was based on this talk, and i think theyre mostly right but wrong in on specific single regard... and i think i can prove it,... if your senses can detect it and you can objectively measure it(but maybe not with a db meter ) even if you cant hear it i think its part of the music and its a bad idea to disregard it and blatenly filter it out without question... you might still if the effect is unwanted ofc ,... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

[celest galleon]

what are these claims based on?
just people talking is not a source. it would actually be really easy to test this, as a lot of audiophile myths have been tested and debunked with 100% certainty. even LTT did multiple instances of these, e.g. about network switches or power filters.

why are "audiophiles" that make claims like these always so averse of putting people in a room with 2 identical audio setups and letting people test setup 1 first, then 2 and say if there is a difference. then have a 2nd group test setup 2 first then setup 1 and a control group where both setups have 0 difference.

given enough sample size, even a deviation by 4% meaning 54% of people prefer 1 setup over the other can be a big hint.

[green marsh]

Wow testing obvious bullshit so meaningful

[celest galleon]

the guy above me is living proof of it

[pine forge]

Looking at getting a mic boom arm, something to be positioned above my monitor. Should I get an Elgato Wave Arm or Rode PSA1+ or any other good alternatives? Need something proper sturdy, at the moment I've got a cheap one and it's not nice to move around got crappy springs on the side of it

[terse river]

I like the ak55 one (look it up on Amazon) it’s the cheapest good one and it’s a thinner arm, really good for running around the side of a monitor if you don’t have space underneath or above (like if you have vertically stacked monitors and a center channel speaker below

[green marsh]

ok buddy

im all for scientific tests but if youre really going to tell me ltt testing obvious snake oil is a proper test that is worth it and produces meaningful results you got another thing coming

[warm scarab]

i dont think proving a ""audiophile network switch"" being a scam is meaningful in any capacity lmao

wow i cant believe copper in this button box sounds the same as the other copper

[zenith pawn]

I can't believe a digital and error corrected signal sounds the same on both ends

[warm scarab]

"why are "audiophiles" that make claims like these always so averse of putting people in a room with 2 identical audio setups and letting people test setup 1 first, then 2 and say if there is a difference. then have a 2nd group test setup 2 first then setup 1 and a control group where both setups have 0 difference."

but thats literally like

what they do

thats called blind testing

lmfao

[zenith pawn]

Many audiophiles are averse to blind testing because it would just count against them, since they'd fail

[warm scarab]

and many of them already do blind testing

[zenith pawn]

like people that belief stuff you scientifically can't hear

[green marsh]

nah

most audiophiles just listen

[warm scarab]

most of them cant afford 2 pairs to blind test with

hifi dudes blind test

[green marsh]

fr

if its outside of 15hz to 25khz it doesnt matter

[warm scarab]

25khz

wtf

what you listening at 25khz

[green marsh]

some people cough goldensound cough can hear to about 22khz so i just gave a little buffer room

self proclaimed tho

[warm scarab]

what the fuck

[violet heron]

25khz doesn't sound nice tho

[warm scarab]

i dont believe it

[green marsh]

i mean he was able to hear the difference between two dacs because of the low pass behavior past 20khz

[warm scarab]

in blind?

[green marsh]

yeah

abx i believe

[warm scarab]

i mean

past 20khz is not necessarily 22khz

so idk

[green marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzECc522A1Y

directly from the video he says he can hear 21k if he turns it up a lot

he can hear this difference

[warm scarab]

it could be pcm filters?

[green marsh]

idk i havent actually watched the whole video through

[sick terrace]

if you're turning the volume up to hear these differences, they don't matter

[green marsh]

he didnt have to turn it up for 20k tho so

[sick terrace]

they sounded identical to just under 21k. this stuff is inaudible without boosting the volume of a sine playing at that exact frequency. it's technically audible, but not in any remotely meaningful way

[green marsh]

if you look at the scale thats roughly 5 db difference at 21k

[sick terrace]

yeah.. that's less than 1bit of dynamic range at a frequency you can't hear without listening at a level that would deafen you

[warm scarab]

5dB is vaugely double the volume so its significant but like

there is barely any meaningful info above 20khz in any song I can think of so I don't believe this result is due to being able to hear 21khz

[zenith pawn]

I think I remember him claiming/showing him hearing a 21khz sine (not blind but not really a thing you'd placebo)

probably just an autistic attention to detail to say there is "a" difference, but not necessarily one where there's important information

[broken grotto]

my biggest problem with a lot of audio gear is just that frankly there's very few that are trustworthy.

at least, i have trust issues

[lean grove]

trustworthy how

like are you buying bootleg stuff from ali express

[broken grotto]

i mean, mostly reviewers; there are good and bad products both.

the only real way to make a real educated guess on a product is to watch as many reviews, read as many, and try to find as much information as possible on a thing before you buy it

that might ruffle some feathers saying that their favorite reviewer isn't trustworthy, but it is what it is

product wise, though, some companies absolutely are kind of scammy; as much as I use my iFi go blu, they sell a ton of junk that's pointless.

ok ifi

[lean grove]

theres more egregious examples of unnecessary junk that cost way more.

even if this cost one gajillion dollars, its completely optional. nobodys forcing anyone to buy this crap.

but as soon as they start charging a monthly subscription and it requires always-on internet access, thats when you should start getting mad

planned obsolescence, forced updates that make their product worse, unnecessary DRM, proprietary connections and incompatible hardware. thats scummy behavior.

a sub $100 ethernet noise filter is a security blanket. its small potatoes.

[warm scarab]

i wouldn't watch reviews

affiliate link tubers

all of them

even crin stopped being honest

[zenith pawn]

He became a salesman for his own brand

[pine forge]

Do I need an amp for my Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro?

[lean grove]

what impedance

[pine forge]

250 ohms, should've mentioned

[lean grove]

yeah you should be fine.

unless you're plugging it into something anemic like a playstation controller

[pine forge]

Plugged into my PC, the mobo came marketed as if it can handle my headphones lol

Wonder if an amp will make it louder or nah

[lean grove]

ehhhhh. anytime a motherboard says "up to 600 ohms" or something thats nonsense. anything is compatible with 600 ohms. or 300. or whatever.

[lean grove]

and most amps definitely will, but it might not be necessary.

i think you'll be able to get to loud enough levels with your computer

[pine forge]

Nice one lad, won't get an amp then

[main spoke]

looking for a good pair of headphones around £100 ($135) but i dont know what i should be looking for to work out if something is going to be good or bad, i want something comfortable, wireless over 2.4ghz not bluetooth because of latency, the option to use wired aswell, and of course just good audio for music films and games

[queen mural]

hello guys, im looking for bass oriented earbuds to pair with my Pixel 7. For reference, I love the deep and warm bass of my Final E3000 IEMs and i love the sound of my friend's oneplus buds pro 2 but i hate their fit so not getting those, so I want something that thumps hard but stays clear. My choices are narrowed down to Nothing Ear (2024), Pixel Buds Pro 2, Beats Studio Buds Plus, Bose Ultra Earbuds, or the Sony XM5 buds.

[tawdry gale]

Can you stretch a little bit for Fiio FT1

[main spoke]

way out of budget and not wireless

[tawdry gale]

Ugreen max5 with jazz preset on ugreen app

[main spoke]

is this to say they sound bad out the box? id rather not download the app on every device i own but if its permanent after changing it its probably fine

[tawdry gale]

U just need to download the app on 1 device

[main spoke]

cant find them anywhere in the uk do you have an alternative? also id rather not use bluetooth if you know any with dongles

shouldve also mentioned this will be just for computer use so i dont need anything like anc or stuff intended to use outside

[tawdry gale]

u can find it on aliexpress

aliexpress takes 2-4 days to ship to the uk

[buoyant vale]

more like 30-60 days

[tawdry gale]

all my aliexpress orders took 4 days max

I'm in the uk

[lone flame]

nor a bunch people that can hear that frequencies lol

some people have to boost 20kHz like 10+dB to hear it anyways

also all this sound shit is different anytime anyways

you can take a shit and a speaker or so sounds different even tho the variables are exactly the same

Our mind fcks up that stuff ALOT anyways

also a reason why people get "tired of listening" on mixing sessions

like no variable has changed. but your concentration did. so its harder or impossible for you to focus on the details etc. that makes the sound more muddy even tho it isn't

We can measure all day, thats nice. But we sadly don't know much about HOW our Brain processes the sound and lets us hear it

[hot tide]

if you want a really sturdy one and don't care about price, get a gator arm

[warm scarab]

psa1 is for heavy mics

it may just go up with lighter ones

[steel escarp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/743230004095221770/1408320261421531187/graph_22.png?ex=68a94ff3&is=68a7fe73&hm=f83c15d8fde549c1a88ac155c3aa70e001ff8d7ddb9e9b707465bcfd3e4f20c3&

@lean grove hifiman cooked with the new he600

Its lightweight and easy to drive too, for a planar

94dB sensitive 28 ohms

389g

[warm scarab]

cost

[steel escarp]

Like 800 euros

[warm scarab]

ok 500 in a year

[scarlet olive]

Hi, I've been using the edifier e1700bts hooked up to my Motu M2 audio interface via RCA cables for a few years now. I've recently noticed that my right speaker sounds a bit "blown" when playing some frequency. Am I fucked? I remembered a few times where my interface would suddenly stopped working and then turned back out which caused the popping sound through the speakers. Is this the cause for my issue? Is there anything I can do about it? It's pretty annoying once I noticed it.

[warm scarab]

swap l/r rca cables and see if the issue persists on one speaker or the other

[warm scarab]

it would be a disappointment to have common and uncommon earth magnets in a 700$ headphone tbh

[lean grove]

Couldn't afford neodymium magnets to put in their $800 headphones

[warm scarab]

but for the price I feel like they could also done epic grade earth magnets

perhaps even mythical grade earth magnets

[lean grove]

Klaus do you know what an rare earth magnet is

[warm scarab]

of course

i hear that susvara has legendary earth magnets in it

[scarlet olive]

the issue persists on the same speaker. Also noticed it when playing through bluetooth

[warm scarab]

which frequency is it

use like a tone generator

[steel escarp]

Wtf, I thought hifiman was so proud of itself for being able to get rare earth metals more easily because they are in China

[steel escarp]

Bro the Susvara magnets are so strong

Its crazy

[warm scarab]

they are legendary grade man ofc

thats like

4 grades above rare

[steel escarp]

I see

I was measuring the earpad depth. And the metal part on my tape measure just stuck to the magnets

[scarlet olive]

i noticed it around 7khz and maybe 2-3khz. Is my tweeter dead?

[steel escarp]

Like my he1000 stealth didnt have as strong magnets

[warm scarab]

2-3khz may be in the midrange

but probably tweeter issue

[scarlet olive]

correction: around 3.2k is the most noticeable

[warm scarab]

do you have like passive terminals on that speaker to bypass the amp

[scarlet olive]

in songs and speeches, it's female voices

[scarlet olive]

my chain is laptop -> motu m2 (audio interface) -> speakers

[warm scarab]

okay thats not what i asked though

do you have passive terminals on the speaker

[lean grove]

The fuck is an edition xv

[steel escarp]

Probably not. As he is running his interface into them

[steel escarp]

New 400 dollar hifiman

[scarlet olive]

nope. only rca and bluetooth

[steel escarp]

A rare warm hifiman

[warm scarab]

some have an option to bypass integrated amps

[warm scarab]

yea rip, contact edifier

or buy replacement tweeter and try winging it

[scarlet olive]

sadge

[steel escarp]

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/edition-xv.html

@lean grove they could have literally used these grills for their unveiled stuff. And it'd probably be the same

This is probably gonna be the new default recommend

[unique wind]

real

wait a year and get these new headphones from their store as refurb

basically half price

[unique wind]

tbh the Edition XV looks better in the treble here and it's cheaper

[steel escarp]

its time to upgrade your Sundara

[unique wind]

i havent even worn headphones in over a year i think xd

[steel escarp]

I have a decent speaker setup

neumann kh120 + svs sb1000 pro + minidsp flex

but like

I prefer headphones

its just so much cleaner

[zenith pawn]

is there a way to compare the general sound profile of a headphone vs iem by graph

like can i just pick a diffuse field target on both gras and 5128 or does it not work that way

[green marsh]

Not between rigs

If they're both 5128 there's an argument to be made to be able to compare iems and headphones

[proud harness]

not really a hardware question but more of software. is there a program for windows 11 to boost the sounds of other programs? with windows 11 all of my settings in the windows volume mixer is set to 100%, and my problem is that discord and other programs are louder then other, like example star citizen, I have everything set to max, and the game itself is so quite. I need a program that I can boost the sounds of my games so I can hear them, say above youtube and discord without having to play around with turning down a bunch of programs.

[violet heron]

I assume you also set windows volume to 100?

volume mixer should do the job controlling the volume of individual programs, and it should save them when you run the program again

otherwise, you can try using Voicemeeter Banana

[proud harness]

okay, I just want to increase the volume of one programe past 100. but will try voicemeeter banana

[broken grotto]

i have a question for you, how far did you get into your analog electronics classes?

idk what the cirriculum layout is nowadays

every school seems to be different lol

[sleek lily]

On analog side I'm done with linear circuits and finally on electronic circuits. Unfortunately I'm somewhat behind where I should be because I spent a good while getting on my feet cause my parents kicked me out when I graduated highschool. Fortunately, I've been able to maintain a good gpa, because while getting on my feet I basically grinded through reading pirated textbooks for most of my program, so maybe that set back was a blessing.

I am loving messing with embedded systems though. Just feels like a cheat code to making projects.

[broken grotto]

I ended up specializing in digital system design (FPGA's, fun stuff), but analog electronics is super fun.

imo embedded systems is kinda cheating, because you can do everything you want to do with analog electronics, just easier, with digital.

but analog electronics is still imperative to understand

a lot of your operational amplifier and amplifier design/analysis correlates to audio equipment

hopefully whatever op-amp class you take has you go through and build the world's worst op amp

i encourage you to make the world's worst mono speaker amplifier using it lmao

[sleek lily]

Lol

[zenith pawn]

Do you know if there's anyone that does a large db of headphones on the 5128 for comparison, why does it seem like nobody tests headphones on it?

[broken grotto]

that project is making an operational amplifier out of BJT transistors.

it's an awful op amp but it teaches you the overall nonlinearities and non-ideal behavior of op amps

[sleek lily]

I sort of wanted to make my own amp to use at home just for fun

No matter how ghetto it looks

Lol

Might do something like that as a project then try to improve it after so i can actually use it in a ghetto home theatre amp

Honestly, I love engineering

[green marsh]

Because its 60k 💀

And doesnt have a 200 dollar clone

Only 5128 databases on squig are listener, crinacle and earphones archive

[zenith pawn]

Is the gras cheaper

[green marsh]

.

Soundguys uses 5128 too

[broken grotto]

you are better off using dedicated transistor amplifiers for that instead of home made op amps, mostly due to those non-ideal factors

you can buy op amps that are made for audio.

[zenith pawn]

people use clones but they can pass it off as being the origjnal?

[broken grotto]

the hiby R4 is a decent example.

but the big stinky speaker amps sometimes use discrete transistor amplifiers, which im sure for some is a vibe

(also called power amplifiers)

a MOSFET is much happier running a few amps through it than an op amp lol

[wintry mirage]

i never knew they made valve headphone amps

[green marsh]

No?

[zenith pawn]

I don't get the connection then

[green marsh]

They use clones but acknowledge that its a clone

But they are very close to gras

In spec

[wintry mirage]

i dont understand why so many speaker and amplifier specs lie about rms power

ive seen some where if you run them at rms for more than a second they just catch fire

and peak power always seems to be insane and to no standard

ive noticed the thin subwoofers for cars that go under seats are rated at like 400w when they actually are less than 50

its not just in car audio though ive been looking at home audio and some of the ratings just seem crazy

[nimble cobalt]

Maybe I am just stupid but I cant seem to get my surround speakers working.

I have a Pioneer vsx-329k reciever
2 Jamo s506 as fronts
2 Loewe as back left and right and a sub which isnt connected yet.

If I manually do the setupfor t.tone in the settings it does produce the white noise but once I play any content on my TV it doesnt play the sound through the surround speakers at all whether its youtube, spotify etc.

Front speakers are set to large
Surrounds to small

[broken grotto]

I haven't looked into much of that. Can you point me to an example so I can take a look?

[wintry mirage]

eeven when i just search "12 inch subwoofer" the first results are stuff like this claiming 280 watts rms

its hard to find the rms figure on most pages with speakers like that they only list the peak

ive tested a sub before and it bottomed out on 130 watts and the rms was 300

i could hear distortion around 140 on higher frequencies

then the amplifiers that list stupidly high power ratings that they cant do at all

when im buying pa amps there is just brands i ignore because its all bs

[broken grotto]

Are you measuring the power somehow?

[wintry mirage]

the first three brands here all lie by about 5x at least on their power ratings

[wintry mirage]

you can find other reports on it or in the case of testing subs under 300 watts i have a power supply that lists the power consumption

like behringer make a "6000 watt" amplifier on a regular 240v plug

[broken grotto]

25A isn't crazy in 240V

[wintry mirage]

the amp weighs 6kg

i have real 1500 watt pa amps and they weigh 25kg

i know that amp can run just over 1kw but it cant get close to 6kw

i find a lot of them amps have like a 6 amp fuse too at most

ive seen 50% of the ones rated at 1kw or 2kw have 2-3 amp fuses

i tested one of the skytech amps on some bigger speakers, the rated rms output was 500w per channel and it was peaking with the speakers taking low power

i dont know the specific number but i think the total power was like 150w before it was on the edge of catching fire

both peak lights were glowing bright red

[broken grotto]

Likely they just list the "burst"

Music isn't continuous, so the real power is likely 1/3 of whatever the rating is

The back label should tell you the current it pulls from the wall.

[wintry mirage]

i make sure the amps i buy now can run continuous at their rated rms power

[wintry mirage]

most are 2 or 3 amp

[broken grotto]

(⅓ is a compete random guess idk the real value)

[wintry mirage]

my real power amps do 8 amps i think

on their built in circuit breakers

[broken grotto]

But the fuse being low can make sense if it's a slow blow fuse

[wintry mirage]

most people dont buy them for their intended use but it wouldnt work for pa

it would run pa speakers but with no bass

it has a t2a fuse and says 500w per channel

but peaks at like 150w

i tried to sustain max power and it just couldnt do over 100w

its the same with a lot of speakers and subs that are on the cheaper end

like one of the cheaper subs i had rated for "300w rms 900 peak" that almost died at 130 watts

that 130 doesnt include losses in the amp

[elder thistle]

you sure it wasn't the enclosure design causing this?

[wintry mirage]

yes

its the stock one

[elder thistle]

why would the stock enclosure be designed to minimize excursion? it's profitable to have a driver run efficiently below resonance in an oversized enclosure

power and xmax are separate specs for a reason

[wintry mirage]

it was some cheap crappy thing

it would still distort at much lower than rms

[elder thistle]

this does not speak for the driver's power handling at all

[wintry mirage]

the coil would have caught fire if i didnt turn it down

[elder thistle]

was it smoking?

[wintry mirage]

no i could smell it

it might have been smoking but not enough to be visible

[elder thistle]

oh ye thats not good

[wintry mirage]

i could find so many subs that say like "300 watts rms" or something similar that would burn at 150+

same with some bookshelf speakers it depends on the brand

[green marsh]

idk those peak power specs are always a lie like if you look at rated vs anyone who actually measures them like asr

💀

[wintry mirage]

yes i know peak is a massive lie but some rms is also a lie

[elder thistle]

I'd be a little surprised if that focal woofer couldnt handle 280w in the right box

[wintry mirage]

some companies give a very accurate rms but others just lie completely

[elder thistle]

they're mainly in the business of selling medium to top end passive speakers

[green marsh]

i mean their headphones arent very good at power handling

clipping central

[wintry mirage]

i got some software to see frequency responce of the box i want to build with my sub

i think thats a good curve?

ive never used it before

[green marsh]

looks decent to me

[wintry mirage]

it goes from 10hz to 75hz that graph

and down to -10db before cutting off

20hz is -3db which is what i was aiming for

[elder thistle]

how are the other graphs? is this a sealed enclosure

[wintry mirage]

no its ported

in a 70 litre box which is what was recommended

couldnt tell you if the details i put in for the sub are right i just tried to copy the spec from the manufacturer into the program

just asked ai for the rest

cant find anything on the internet anywhere so i had no choice

[broken grotto]

You must improve your google-fu skills

Get all boolean with it

[wintry mirage]

Its just annoying to search for ages and it show me nothing of relevance

[warm scarab]

its typically something like 350w at 0.1 ohms

so when you adjust the formula to 4 ohms or whatever you get the actual capacity

[wintry mirage]

Yea

[tidal fractal]

Hey, i received this Sony amp and like 8 speakers, is it possible to use it with a PC or do I need to get a newer amp and use only the speakers?

[broken grotto]

I would like a new DAP, does anyone have reasonable suggestions for about ~$600? Currently looking at the iBasso DX180

The FiiO M21 is neat looking too.

[lean grove]

dap
Reasonable

Pick one

[verbal fog]

one of my hk receivers has a preamp issue but it has pre out main in jumpers so i thought about just taking out all the buttons and spackling and painting over them and then just using it as a smooth face power amp

[verbal fog]

just get your pc into rca somehow and then you can use it

[polar onyx]

Would LTT do a video or even want this?

[verbal fog]

probably not

[polar onyx]

I was listening to the latest WAN Show

Would anyone want it?

[granite drum]

basicly everybody can if you turn up the volume allot, that is a slong as you have your eadrum ,... if not by detecting the actual sound you can still feel the pressure it generates on your innerear

the problem thenn becomes can you tell appart 21khz from 21.5khz from 30khz since detecting presenso of pressure is not that accurate in working back where that pressure comes from

[granite drum]

my google fu skills were really good at one point but over time they dropped support for nearly all magic keywords and operators in favor of keeping you longer on the platform to server you adds

[tidal fractal]

Thanks for the answer, Have you a recommendation how? or does it not really matter?

[green marsh]

you cant tho

unless you got a 100w amp feeding directly into headphones or something 💀

[astral anchor]

hey guys, was using some razer nommo chroma speakers but im looking to upgrade. anyone know of some good computer speakers for music and gaming?

[granite drum]

its really not that hard , just pic a frequency you cant hear , like 24khz for me at my age is defenetly something i cant hear anymore, put onhead phones and flip the sound on and of and on again a couple times in a relatively silent room, just focus on the feeling rather than the sound its pretty easy to tell when the sound is on as opposed to when its off once you noticed the difference ,... but for the love of god i could not tell if it was 20khz or 50khz just if its on and of, and i score a perfect each time i have to do a hearing test for work, ow and it helps if you happen to have a headcold

[astral anchor]

was looking at these but idk if they're good or not

[granite drum]

with a 100W amp you could tell from the back of a venue wheter its playing a 25khz sinus or not , without needing headphones lol...

500mW would be overkill already for headphones

but it helps to figure out what feeling your supposed to be looking for in change when the volume is a little higher but once you have what it feels like its pretty easy

[green marsh]

Bro is hearing the distortion products

[astral anchor]

anyone able to give some insight?

[buoyant vale]

Logitech are normally poop

[astral anchor]

my direct comparison would be the razer nommo chroma speakers

which are like 6 years old at this point

[sleek lily]

Just don't get gamer marketed stuff tbh

You're paying a needless tax for a fancy logo, lights, and marketing

[astral anchor]

i was dumb and was just getting into pc accessories at that point, these have been good for me but i don't have an educated perspective

[sleek lily]

Nothing wrong with that. You know better now though 👍

[warm scarab]

what is your budget?

[astral anchor]

Pretty low for speakers but 200 and below probably

[warm scarab]

edifier mr4

[astral anchor]

Okay Ty, I’ll Check them out

Is it just connected from 1 auxiliary cable?

How do they connect and get power?

[warm scarab]

its 1 aux per side

the power is from wall

you connect the speaker taps from one side to the other

[astral anchor]

My pc only has 1 aux port

[warm scarab]

it splits into two

your headphones have left and right

[astral anchor]

Ah it’s a 2 to 1 cable I see

Sounds cool, reviews say these are very good

[astral anchor]

Just ordered them! Ty for the recommendation

[broken grotto]

happened to be browsing headphones.com and saw this:

and was like, oh that's cool, headphones.com selling them

except one problem

if they are backordered, are they really available now?

[zenith pawn]

I would say no

that just seems like bs

[broken grotto]

idk how they sell anything when every time i look at their website it's always backordered, so i just end up going to Amazon or something lol

their return policy at headphones.com is pretty tempting but I have trust issues

[zenith pawn]

idk enough to recommend stuff but other people might have some suggestions for what to buy

[broken grotto]

as far as the DAP I'll probably just buy the FiiO M21

it looks decent enough, and it'll just be replacing my FiiO M11.

[cold edge]

I am thinking about replacing my Definitive ProSub 600 what sub should I replace it with

[heady plover]

I'm not in a dedicated headphones server, not an active one anyways so sorry need purchase advice and asking a few places and seeing who answers first.

If I have roughly $150-160 to spend and it has to be noise canceling, can I do better then the Sony wh 1000 xm4s (dam this is a long name) on amazon for $165 renewed?

[astral anchor]

At a desk setup what is the ideal elevation for speakers?

I currently have mine quite a bit above me but I’m sure it’s not ideal

Have new speakers coming and I’m wondering if I should put them on the actual desk around head level

[broken grotto]

maybe look at the moondrop edge? you'll save about half the cost ish. idk if they "sound," better but they have noise cancelling and a funny lady talking to you when you do stuff.

[stuck bolt]

Tweeter at ear level is pretty much it. Measure the distance from your eyes or ears to the floor, and that's the height for your speakers.

Waiting for a bit of extra cash to get stands for these monitors so they can sit in the correct orientation

Does anyone wanna buy a pair.

[supple sand]

Guys

I found xm5s selling for 258 dollars

Like brand new

Isnt that a good catch?

[zenith pawn]

It doesn't sound like a very good deal

how much do they cost normally???? I would've thought like $250 at full price

[supple sand]

Like 345 at best buy

330 at sonys own website

300 on target

[heady plover]

Idk not getting anything worse then those and most people said the XM4s are the best at $160 renewed that your not doing better then that so I think that's just going to be what I go with.

[broken grotto]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ yea, your money your choice; amazon renewed always gives me the heebie jeebies

[supple sand]

Look at walmart

I think i saw em for like 148

12 dollars is 12 dollars 🤷‍♂️

[supple sand]

Do yall think sprnding atleast 150$ more is worth the xm5 over the xm4?

[sleek lily]

They're like a third that price at Walmart?

[supple sand]

Nah

I saw

Its a chinese guy

[sleek lily]

They're $199 on Sony website

[supple sand]

Xm5s?

It says 330 on mine tf

[sleek lily]

I don't think that Amazon sale looks like a very promising deal

[supple sand]

Its walmart sale

[supple sand]

This is walmart

[sleek lily]

I'd say look more into sales, because on a quick google search, almost all deals seem better

[supple sand]

Dude

The ones u see are either sketchy wrbsites

That end up scamming people

[sleek lily]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/WH-1000XM5-Premium-Noise-Canceling-Headphones-Auto-NC-Optimizer-30-Hour-Battery-Alexa-Voice-Control-Black/17530503920

Here it is on Walmart site

[robust shoal]

hey guys i am searching for a headset but i can deside witch one i am curently using a reddragon h510 but now i want one thats a title more high res but still on a budget i like it wired but also wireless is fine any ideeas what could be a good option?

[supple sand]

Or some chinese guy with a comlany called zuagdongjdhfhdjdjdksf

Selling tjem for 98 bucka

W a single review saying " do not buy from this guy he sells replicas"

[supple sand]

Look at the seller

Walmart has a shit ton of scammer in their online stores

Sincr they allow 3rd parties now

U cant even return them most of the time

So u js end up w a 25 dollar piece of shit replica

[broken grotto]

Lmao

Yeaaa dont buy it on Walmart

Even just a Google search shows one single outlier at $99, which is the Walmart one.

If that's the only seller at that price, something is wrong.

[sleek lily]

Tbh, I didn't even know Walmart had external sellers until now

Why does every retailer let sketchy sellers use their sites now?

What did we all do to earn this hell?

Lol

[lean grove]

the paradox of capitalist growth

[astral anchor]

Ah I see ty, I think I’ll have the horizontally place the new ones on my desk

Idk if the edifier mr4 speakers can be placed horizontally or not though

[stuck bolt]

Ehh, if you don't really care all that much then it's fine.

[warm scarab]

you can place any speaker sideways

but you shouldn't

[stuck bolt]

But it's better to have it upside down that sideways

[astral anchor]

Ah I see, I just don’t know where I can place it then. Desk space is mainly occupied by my monitors

Trying to think 🤔

[warm scarab]

this one is better

[warm scarab]

i feel like this should have been thought before buying the speakers lol

[astral anchor]

Aimed inwards toward you, makes sense

[astral anchor]

That’s a good point, I’ll think of something though lol

[stuck bolt]

Get some stands and have them over your monitors

[warm scarab]

if you want you can extend the shelf to left and right and place the speakers upside down, angled towards you

[stuck bolt]

Might be wack as hell but that might work

[warm scarab]

mounting sideways is also okay if you have stands

dont do it on a solid surface though

only if its a small arm

[stuck bolt]

The mr 4 should be fine sideways

Not that critical tbh. But if you're doing music work, have your monitors orientation correct

[astral anchor]

Trying to visualize what you mean by this

[stuck bolt]

Shift everything to the right a lil

[astral anchor]

Ahhh I see

Order should be here in a few hours, need to get my hands on them and see how big they are irl

[astral anchor]

ohhhhhhhh

and have them upside down?

[warm scarab]

the lamp would perish on the left

yeah

also angled downwards

stuff some acoustic foam below them if you have any or books

[stuck bolt]

Lol

[astral anchor]

tbh that lamp is never used anyway

[warm scarab]

for the time being you can just place them to the leftmost and rightmost sides of the available shelf but

[stuck bolt]

There are desk stands that allow you to angle your speakers

[warm scarab]

the imaging and soundstage will be really poor without placing them well left and well right

[tardy dune]

you can also 3d print them

[warm scarab]

3d print what

[tardy dune]

holders for the speakers

[stuck bolt]

[warm scarab]

why would you 3d print this

[tardy dune]

i have 3 so my speakers are front speakers are angled towards me

[tardy dune]

it was cheaper and i do like 3d printing but its not for everyone

[stuck bolt]

[warm scarab]

just grab some foam from a kitchen sponge and place it at the backside of the speaker

the print will likely rattle

[stuck bolt]

That works lol

[warm scarab]

yeah

sponge is a good material for this which is why most companies send you their cut at an angle speaker holders

speaking of which

mr4 might actually come with

now that I think about it

[astral anchor]

what would be convenient

[warm scarab]

INCLUDED IN THE BOX

User Manual
Passive(left) Speaker
Active(right) Speaker
Speaker Connecting Cable
3.5mm-RCA Audio Cable
3.5mm-3.5mm Audio Cable

perhaps not

[astral anchor]

rip

[warm scarab]

well you got 3.5 to rca included

so thats nice

[astral anchor]

so i think ill put a longer board above the white shelf, and that would extend the length, as for angling them downwards, not too sure what id do yet

[warm scarab]

just squeeze a small notebook or some sponge at the backside of the speaker to angle it

you can also just fold a bunch of newspaper

paper and sponge is good for this job

[astral anchor]

ok that makes sense

[astral anchor]

have both rca and 3.5 ports on my pc, is there a preferred connection?

[warm scarab]

you have rca on your pc?

wtf

[stuck bolt]

Huh

Tell me you got XLR as well

[warm scarab]

4.4 please

[astral anchor]

no

tbh i dont know what that is

dont think i have this, will need to check the io panel again in a bit

whats annoying is i have to take off the top fan bracket to access my io panel

[green marsh]

aint no pc got xlr in the io

[astral anchor]

ok, what is it even for?

[stuck bolt]

It's for audio stuff

Don't worry about it.

Minor trolling

[green marsh]

i mean it was in response to somehow having rca on his pc

[stuck bolt]

Exactly

[astral anchor]

is it not common?

[stuck bolt]

Maybe a sound card

[green marsh]

people still use those things? 💀

[astral anchor]

pc is the thermaltake reactor 9880

[stuck bolt]

[green marsh]

i dont think any modern pc motherboard has rca

[astral anchor]

is it possible im mistaken? 3 colored port

ok motherboard is the asus prime z790-p wifi

let me see if i can just find a picture of the io panel

[sick terrace]

those ports are mic in, line out and line in

[green marsh]

yeah there aint no rca there

only 3.5mm

[astral anchor]

ports on the right

what are those?

[sick terrace]

^

[green marsh]

wifi antenna

not rca

[astral anchor]

no the blue green and red lol

not the gold connectors

[green marsh]

.

[sick terrace]

3.5mm mic in, line in and line out

[astral anchor]

ah, my bad lol

assumed the colored connectors were rca

[sick terrace]

nah rca uses different colors and the ports are a bit different

[astral anchor]

would i use those ports for my speakers? i think theres a seperate standalone 3.5 port as well

as well as another on the front

[lean grove]

it depends.
speakers are obviously different, but generally speakers are designed to have pretty good performance below the tweeter angle, and pretty good performance side to side, but usually pretty bad above-the-tweeter performance.
so at near-field, sideways is gonna be better.
otherwise upside down you better be prepared to have them at ear-level and have some good absorbtion below the speakers.

[green marsh]

pretty sure you can use them for whatever you want

[lean grove]

ceiling bounces are not really important since ceilings are usually pretty high. so if sacrifices are to be made, above-tweeter axis performance is what goes first.

[green marsh]

you can tell the pc what its for

anyway pretty sure youd just plug the 3.5 to rca to the speaker and green port on the pc

and then connect the speakers together with the speaker wire

its that simple

[astral anchor]

ok thankyou!!

just starting to get into audio tech a bit more so I'm pretty uninformed about what is probably basic info to you guys lol

[sick terrace]

i've got recording hardware brainrot. i read line out and just assumed it'd be mono like everything else that says line out

[green marsh]

lmao

[astral anchor]

but yeah hoping the new speakers are good, i like listening to a lot of orchestral music from video games like skyrim and wow, hoping i can distincly hear the intstruments with these instead of them getting muddled together

[stuck bolt]

For most studio monitors, it's better to have them upside down than sideways, let's take Adam audio monitors for example. The wave guides on them are meant for vertical orientation, you can however change that in some models to use in the horizontal orientation. In this case, the gentleman just wants sound.

The horizontal dispersion is different from the vertical in most monitors.

[sick terrace]

make sure you room is prepared for them too. speakers need a good room to thrive in, otherwise room reflections are gonna interfere with the sound

[stuck bolt]

Baby steps

[warm scarab]

you have this on your pc?

[astral anchor]

yeah im ordering sound boards soon

[warm scarab]

dont

you dont need them

waste of money

[astral anchor]

oh ok nvm then lol

[warm scarab]

if you have money to put into buying a sound card it was better put into paying more for nicer speakers

[sick terrace]

they don't have a soundcard

[green marsh]

maybe he meant sound panels 🤔

[stuck bolt]

Invest in a nice desk. And monitor arms.

[green marsh]

invest in me

[warm scarab]

@astral anchor did you mean sound panels by sound board?

we are lost in the terminology

[astral anchor]

yeah lmao

[warm scarab]

oh

[stuck bolt]

I accept donations

[astral anchor]

board as in boards of material you put on the wall to improve sound

[warm scarab]

yeah i get you

[stuck bolt]

Acoustic panels

[warm scarab]

uh

instead of that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1bSSL8tRA

just follow this procedure to begin with

[stuck bolt]

Omg it's not that serious

[warm scarab]

its not that "its not that serious"

the process takes like

1 minute lmao

its not a serious process at all

[lean grove]

idk, man. the horizontal directivity looks way better to me than the vertical directivity.

[warm scarab]

its just that you have more bang for buck with room correction than with acoustic panels

acoustic panels is like the later step

[lean grove]

well. i guess if you're on-axis with the wteeter it shouldnt matter

[stuck bolt]

True

[lean grove]

you move around horizontally way more than you do vertically

so yeah i guess upside down shouldnt matter as long as you're on-axis

[warm scarab]

dude is still sitting in the corner of a room with one speaker right in the corner, acoustic panels arent going to do anything to that

[lean grove]

yeah blah blah blah idk

[stuck bolt]

Again, shelves or stands. Upside down, tweeters at ear level. That's all for now. @astral anchor

It's easy to overwhelm someone with information

Keep it simple,

Further inquiry would warrant further explanation.

[green marsh]

fr a measurement mic is like 30 bucks while acoustic panels is at minimum a hundred or so

[warm scarab]

yeah, and foam doesnt do jackshit for mids and lows

[astral anchor]

Could raise my monitors to allow more space on my desk

Idk if there’s enough clearance still

[warm scarab]

nah horizontal isnt good

dont do it

just use the space you have on the shelf for now and extend the shelf later if you feel like upgrading the soundstage/imaging a bit

[astral anchor]

About a half foot high, probably hard to tell from the picture

[tame vault]

Currently working on converting an old Sony DVD player/VCR combo into a network audio streamer and I just realized
I've made an actual audiophile network switch

[astral anchor]

So for now put them behind the monitor upside down?

[broken grotto]

laughs in soundblaster AE-9

in all honesty that thing i just liked because it has that desktop audio thingy with the ports.

It's still in my pc, even though I have some nice schiit.

[lean grove]

they should make a sound card that is entirely a desktop audio thingy with ports and doesn't have to be inside your PC. and connect via some standard universial connector so laptops can use it too.

that would be crazy

[broken grotto]

I mean, yes.

that would be, wouldn't it?

[astral anchor]

Hope I put the wire in correctly

[broken grotto]

I will say, the companion app with the AE-9 is cool though, it does microphone in and other stuff as well as a bunch of changes you can make in the app.

it's stupid expensive for what it is

but it's neat.

[lean grove]

as long as its consistent with the speaker, it should be fine. the color doesnt have an actual impact on sound. its there for you to remember which ones are which.

[tame vault]

As long as you put them in the same way between both speakers it doesn't matter

[green marsh]

laughing because youre using a soundblaster in the year 2025

[tame vault]

The only thing swapping the wires does is invert the phase

[broken grotto]

so judgemental t.t

[green marsh]

the desktop thing just looks like it should be a standalone mic interface

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/falcon-sam-wilson-outta-line-but-gif-22091662

[astral anchor]

Ah ok ty

My dad is going to make some wall mounts that angle my speakers downward, I’ll show what it will be like

Lamp will go and the red lines will be wall mounts angling downward with a guard

Not sure if wood is fine for the Material or not though

[stuck bolt]

Cool

[tame vault]

Should be fine with some foam or rubber underneath the speakers

[stuck bolt]

Does anyone wanna blow a bunch of money on some custom built speakers

Looking for clients

[astral anchor]

This is how I have it set up currently, thanks for the help guys

[stuck bolt]

Looks pretty cool

[astral anchor]

Ty!

[warm scarab]

put them on the shelf

yeah

[warm scarab]

do this but upside down lmao

[astral anchor]

Was worried they would slide off, but they’re fine

Sounds better too

These sound exactly how I wanted them to, ty again

[warm scarab]

np bro

[stuck bolt]

Awesome

Wait till this guy gets a sub

[astral anchor]

Should I turn the actual speakers off manually ever time I turn my pc off?

[warm scarab]

if you want to

not much of a reason aside from saving power ig

[sick terrace]

i'd leave them on. power cycling can shorten the lifespan of electronics. not that you'll likely ever see the effects of that, but i think it's a good excuse for being lazy and not turning everything off when you're not using it

[zenith pawn]

you should avoid playing music on your speakers because the tens of thousands of power cycles per second could shorten their lifespan

[sick terrace]

yes because sending an audio signal is the same thing as turning the amplifier inside the speaker on and off thousands of times a second 🤦‍♂️

[broken grotto]

I can do one better, just never turn them on..

Don't even plug them in

[broken grotto]

Normal daily power cycling isnt a big deal. They're designed to handle that.

Your electricity bill will thank you.

Many user manuals also advise to turn off if not using for long periods of time.

[warm scarab]

i doubt either of these will have a major impact

if you want you can buy a relay module and have the speakers automatically turn on with your pc

[broken grotto]

nah, the longevity thing is marginal but turning off stuff you aren't using for long periods of time does save money on your bill.

I like the relay module, though!.

I always thought about using smart-plugs on everything

but then too lazy to do

[warm scarab]

relays underrated asf

[broken grotto]

fr, could even do one of those raspberry pi relay modules and do it real fancy like

though at that point it's more of a pedigree thing than power savings lol

[warm scarab]

yeah lol

[broken grotto]

maybe an ESP32 though

some automation type controller with an ESP32 driving relays for that stuff

that should be pretty power-sippy.

[warm scarab]

what would you do with an esp32 lmao

its just 5v from pc usb into relays

when pc is on 5v comes in and relays close

[broken grotto]

Automation

[sleek lily]

My new oscilloscope arrives today

[broken grotto]

whatcha get?

[sleek lily]

Finirsi 1014d. It's not perfect, but for what I mess with at home, it's good enough tbh. Plus I got it for $70

It has an abysmal memory depth though

[broken grotto]

never heard of that thing in my life

looks ok tho for a hobby tool

[warm scarab]

try cleaning your ears

[lean grove]

Is it the side with the cable on it? Sometimes if it's not set in correctly it can cause a leak

[fleet canyon]

can someone please send me a 3.5 audio jack that is angled or whatever because i keep buying them and breaking them i need soulutions oh yea and it has a usb c on the end

[stuck bolt]

Usb c to 3.5?

[fleet canyon]

3.5 to usb

c

yea

[stuck bolt]

I like ugreen stuff, but Idk if they got a cable like that

Might quicker find a right angle type c to 3.5mm female

[elder thistle]

where am I

is this two fused photos vertically

[zenith pawn]

That's a shelf

[elder thistle]

oh ok

I see now

also maybe consider side placement instead of upside down. not that different really, but more stable and just a smidge more height with the tweeters

right now the tweeters are partially reflecting off the shelf

if you hear any weird peaks or the sound changes a lot when you move, that's probably why

I'd have it hang slightly over the shelf

[astral anchor]

lol yep just a shelf

[sleek lily]

The 8 points were simply chosen as arbitrary multiples of 266mv

The frequency is also an arbitrarily chosen value

I sent the wrong files

[sleek lily]

Took some measurements of an amplifier with a control gain ratio of 1.00 to show that as the input amplitude changes, we will see some small but consistent variance in that gain ratio. The amplifier was given a simple resistor load of 10 ohms. The input amplitude was controlled via a potentiometer and was generated by the oscilloscope.

[unkempt glen]

Hey, I just bought a used set of Logitech z506 surround speakers and i am hab=ving trouble with 5.1. When i was setting up 5.1 in control panel on windows i could not hear the center or sub channel when clicking on them, but when watching stereo content on you tube i can hear audio coming from both. i already tried swapping out the cable that goes to the sub and center channel mix with one that just worked on the other channels. any help would be great thank you!

[plucky sierra]

I just installed my edifier mr4 after using a $30 speaker for 13 years... holy mother of God! Is this heaven? :O

[green marsh]

Just imagine what it would sound like if you spent even more money on speakers

[plucky sierra]

Hell yeah!! I'll mostly use it for gaming and movies, but the sound is great! It's in a whole new level

[white gate]

As stated in another server this test is unfortunately invalid for a number of reasons:

• Using an input potentiometer creates a number of problematic variables including impedance mismatches affecting output level particularly with low input-impedance amps

• Using an input potentiometer and using one channel of it as a reference and the other to feed the amp invalidates the test since potentiometers never have perfect channel matching

• Using an input potentiometer also then forms an RC low-pass filter with the capacitance of the output cables feeding the scope input and the amp input. Affecting the output signal level. Cables must be matched perfectly, and this issue is compounded if you're using vpk as the metric instead of vrms, and you're using a square wave. Doing this with a sine and using RMS instead of peak would alleviate the issue to a great extent. But you really should be using a high quality DAC or something instead, an input potentiometer is just too problematic here.

• This behaviour has literally never been documented in not just any amplifier, but any transistor. Transistors do not have sudden jumps in their gain curves and to be blunt, if this behaviour did exist, and could be measured with a simple input/output comparison on a scope, SOMEONE would have seen it when working on some sort of amplifier in or out of audio or just anything involved with transistors. And yet no one ever has, leaving it 99.99999% certain that the test setup is flawed.

• Following the above point, literally every measurement of every amplifier (and in fact transistor) I've ever seen has shown this behaviour not to exist. It's simple to check with the linearity measurement which is very common, and every single one shows no evidence of this

[broken grotto]

not to forget that a square wave tends to show RC filtering more, if it was tested with sine it would have been much smaller. most of those were testing artifacts.

[white gate]

exactly

Even if some of these turn out not to be issues, there's no good reason not to fix them when they ARE highly likely to be the reason he's getting unusual results

though I suspect the culprit is just the potentiometer channel difference tbh

[broken grotto]

i just say he wanted to play with his new o-scope :p

[sleek lily]

The potentiometer was before our reference voltage (channel A) and simply acted to divide our function generator input (2.5vp square wave from internal function gen), which was not directly measured or used as the scope reference. The input level recorded acts as it's own voltage source, sharing a node with the amplifier input. As such, in regard to our measured reference, it is not changing our response. If it were, it still would not matter, as that input level is manually set to our desired value.

I will measure again tonight with a sine wave, but the square wave was used in my initial test, as it is better suited to test a wider array of potential issues, including power delivery related issues.

Channel B was simply our output from the amplifier.

@broken grotto @white gate

This is just meant to clear up the testing parameters and reasonings, because I think that's where the confusion is.

[white gate]

Please do this with a DAC, doing it with the potentiometer leaves open too many problematic variables

If you really feel the pot is no issue, all the more reason to just do it with a DAC and show that you get the same results

And use RMS

not pk

(though the pk was mostly an issue BECAUSE you were using a square wave)

[sleek lily]

A DAC would just create a more imperfect input and leave more room for error. In reference channel A/ amp input, it would simply act as the same voltage source but with a less perfect input.

[white gate]

No it wouldn't, if you're comparing the output from the dac vs the output from the dac passed through the amp then it doesn't matter if the DAC would be imperfect (And the DAC is gonna be better than the pot anyway)

[sleek lily]

If we have a signal wave X and we generate it from a DAC, that exact same signal wave X would not change if the node is shared and it's generated from a function generator. Our reference is effectively our vs here, as it is what's shared at the node of the input. What matters here is simply which produces a better wave for what we want to test and gives us more control, which is the function generator.

Think of it like doing circuit analysis on a 12vdc power supply with a perfect output going into a 1kohm resistor vs smoking circuit analysis on a 1kohm resistor with a 12vdc source without the whole power supply meing modeled. They're the same thing, and we can just ignore the circuit behind that known perfect output.

[white gate]

The problem isn't the generator it's the way you're varying level

I really don't know how much clearer it can be said: Don't use the pot

[sleek lily]

Again, the potentiometer is before our reference point. It just divides the function gen.

[white gate]

...........

[sleek lily]

The function gen is not our reference

[white gate]

I fully understand that, and have explained why there are still issues due to the RC effect, especially combined with using a square wave, and low level signals

[sleek lily]

The shared node for channel A and the dac input is the reference

There is no potentiometer between those two points. There is no anything between those two points.

[white gate]

I'm not going to reply further as you're either trolling or just not reading what I've said, the lack of a pot between those points isn't the issue when the RC effect from the combination of the pot and the cables to each point is the issue (among others which have been pointed out)

[sleek lily]

If the reference is known to be the exact value we want, it does not actually matter what's happening behind it in relation to the experiment. I think you're still mistaking this as if the function gen is our reference.

[sleek lily]

Just like in this example.

[white gate]

In the meantime, here's a quick test showing that this effect does not exist, with well over 1000 individual levels/points tested for the sake of being thorough.

Red channel is the reference signal (actual measurement, not assumed output), blue is the output from the amp.

The amp in this case has 14dB (13.94dB to be precise) of gain (reference is ofc 0dB), and the gain is exactly 14dB at all of those 1000 levels right until you get down into the microvolt range where noise starts to affect the signal level to a meaningful extent.

There are no sudden differences in gain at particular input levels.
If this effect existed, congrats you've discovered a brand new aspect of transistor behaviour and can write some papers about it as no one in the history of electronic engineering has found what you have

[broken grotto]

a square wave is not appropriate for gain ratio measurements. In analog electronics, a sine wave is used for this.

Square waves are great for slew-rate and bandwidth, but they aren't great for gain ratio with a variable impedance source. If you wanted constant-gain verification, use sines and V_rms or measure the fundamental via FFT.

additionally, channel A and B probes rarely have identical capacitance, the input node will be pulled around by CHA.

[white gate]

^^

you can literally change this result by just adjusting the compensation on your probe itself, that's why it's there

[broken grotto]

Furthermore, a divider changes the thevenin source resistance seen by the amp. R_th varies with the knob, with the middle being near 12.5kΩ and near the end it's approaching 50kΩ. The R_th and input capacitance makes an RC low pass at the input node, and the output node is seeing a different impedance and different probe loading.

The two channels are filtered differently, so Vout/Vin ratio drifts with the pot position.

[white gate]

We have tried to explain this to him for the past two days in the GS server, unfortunately he refuses to change the test setup and keeps reasserting that the pot is not an issue

[broken grotto]

im just a lowly EE man, i can't resist talking electronics ;p

really all that he's doing "wrong," is just comparing the Vpp of two different waveforms at two different nodes.

it's not too big of a deal unless it's starting to pass it off as complete, accurate testing.

gotta learn somehow

being grilled by golden probably isn't the worst way

[white gate]

This is all demonstrated by the graph I showed earlier but yeah, doesn't matter if you feed it 50uV, 100mV, or some arbitrary value like 427.4mV, the 13.94dB gain out of the amp (bottom right) remains the same

[white gate]

I apologise if I'm appearing more short than usual. As mentioned this discussion has been going on for several days, and whilst I usually like to think I have quite extensive patience to discuss, assist with and provide input onto this sort of stuff, past a certain point it becomes clear the other person isn't actually interested in having a real discussion and will not accept any constructive input or explanation, especially when they are unwilling to make any amendments or try literally anything suggested to them by any of the various people that have explained why his results are being unusual thus far, and so at the three-day mark, I'm a little tired 😅

[broken grotto]

lol it's all good, I am just glad we're on the same page

[lean grove]

You are aware of who you're arguing with, right?

[white gate]

not really

OH

Well that explains a lot

[broken grotto]

tho @sleek lily , you should use a buffer.

If you use the voltage follower, the op amp presents a very high impedance to the pot, meaning the pot no longer creates a big position dependent source resistance.

The buffer's output has a low impedance, usually in the 10s of ohms, so cable and probe capacitance won't easily form an RC LPF. Put a 47-100Ω in series at the opamp output for stability with capacitive loads.

Measure the CHA at the buffer output, CHB at the output.

not perfect, but better than what you were doing.

[broken grotto]

do you still do videos anywhere? the last one i saw was the dac one where you could hear like 21kHz or something like that lol

[white gate]

https://youtu.be/d8ug0NbaIds?si=yqBCl40Js-iAj7Mr

https://youtu.be/3XfoIICwCVQ?si=S1jalWlX9249wqcD

I've got some vids upcoming on my channel again soon. The last year or so most of my stuff has been on the headphone show

[broken grotto]

ty

[haughty moon]

any opinion on cheap-ish speakers amplifiers like the douk audio a5, aiyima a07 max or fosi za3 or even fosi v3 mono ?

I need to find a replacement for my old Nad model 140 for my pc setup and I'm looking for something smaller but still good enough

the fosi options would be stretching the budget tho
especially two v3 mono ...

[zenith pawn]

Well that explains why biooc didn't really seem credible to me

[broken grotto]

deleted message

rip

[sleek lily]

I can try setting that up.

I figured for a quick experiment, because I know the output read in channel A for the experiment shares the same node as the amp input and I know the signal is good, I could treat it as a source. Like you mentioned, it's like a thevenan voltage going into the load/our amp. This assumption would still be accurate though in the realm of the experiment wouldn't it?

[broken grotto]

The pot and generator can be treated as a thevenin source, yes. if you probe the same node as the input, you're measuring the thevenin voltage the amplifier is seeing. It's ideal.

But the world isn't ideal. The thevenin source impedance is not zero, it varies. This impedance along with the cable probe capacitance is still creating an RC filter on the very node you measure. The thevenin voltage itself is bandwidth limited depending on the potentiometer position. You're comparing a relatively filtered input to an unfiltered output.

Additionally, a square wave's peak is significantly dependent on it's harmonics. Even if the fundamental amplitude stays correct, harmonics get attenuated. Since it's dependent by the harmonics, it will change with that very RC filtering. This is the "gain drift," you're seeing.

your assumption holds if and only if you buffer the pot with a unity-gain buffer. this is because the thevenin impedance drops to <1Ω, typically.

without that buffer, your measurement is contaminated and useless.

this doesn't even consider the first-order nature of your assumption, either. Mutual capacitance and (!) crosstalk, the pot's wiper track, wiring to the DUT and probe leads couple to each other, bleeding harmonics further changing Vpp. Also if your probes aren't matched or compensated the same, you're measuring two different systems.

[sleek lily]

For comparing the voltage ratio to find the gain though, wouldn't the input and output be impacted by any filter from the cable in a similar manner on the edges?

I do get that there will inherently be some small filter created there impacting the edge bandwidth, I just wouldn't think it'd be significant at 10KHz. I would have to actually calculate the filter formed to confirm this tbf.

I will try to set up the buffer on a later date though. I'll start by trying to take the measurements with a sine wave though just so I have more data I can later compare to the buffered version and learn from 👍 @broken grotto

[broken grotto]

draw a test diagram.

determine the harmonics of 10kHz, as well.

if you've taken signals and systems, you'll remember that a 50% duty-cycle square wave of frequency f can be written as a Fourier series, as shown in the attached picture.

i've made it easy by defining it where frequency is shown.

[broken grotto]

I was able to recreate your test setup using Multisim. See attached graphs.

the first uses no buffer amp, the second uses a buffer.

Here's a hint

[sleek lily]

warship got me

as I was saying before warship deleted my message, I will try the buffer circuit next @broken grotto

I got some sine wave measurements in though

not needing to go to campus to use an oscilloscope feels so overpowered tbh

[broken grotto]

it is nice using keysight ones on campus

except the Analog Discovery 2 is also an awesome tool.

[sleek lily]

I'd like to eventually get one of those digital transmitting probe scopes

I think those are usually used on ghz plus rated scopes, so probably not in the budget til after I'm done with college

[broken grotto]

looking at your scopes though, looks to be about unity gain.

which is what we'd expect on sine waves.

quite a few years ago i soldered together some unity gain buffers that I can just throw in a circuit if i think my probes are causing trouble

[sleek lily]

I need to just go on a component buying spree when my student aid kicks in

just fill a digikey cart up

[broken grotto]

or just go on amazon and buy the bulk sets that will get you though your entire college career.

[sleek lily]

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/3451-gain-for-compressed-amplifiers?utm_

Found this article that touches on the idea I'm testing. It's not a new concept, so I don't know why golden insisted it is, but it's an interesting read.

@broken grotto I need to order some rail to rail opamps. Do you have a specific model you consider pretty good and cheap for the unity gain buffers? If not I can search around a little.

[broken grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/maxwell-equation-i-wish-gif-7328382353317310648

hmmmmmmm, have you heard of our good friend Maxwell?

that article is talking about RF amplifiers. they're right when in that domain.

in your case, the amplifier never entered compression; the "gain drift," was just input filtering.

[broken grotto]

OPA340

[sleek lily]

My main assumption was that we can see some small nonlinearities due to small filters formed in individual loops or by input and output filters tbf. It wasn't necessarily to attribute the effect to the actual transistors or opamps, but I have seen some pretty wacky behaving non rail to rail opamps that might cause a similar effect for no reason other than their behaviors make no sense to begin with lol

I think I have one where you listened to add a small output cap to anything you do with it because if not it adds a pretty heavy dc bias and it also randomly generates huge spikes in random spots when presented with a square wave

Like not even overshoot. Just random spots with no rhyme or reason lol

[broken grotto]

i smell a smell. a smelly smell. a smelly smell that smells like oscillatory behavior.

[sleek lily]

It probably is. It's just such a pain to design anything with that opamp lol

But for some reason I got gifted like 4 of them from a friend

[broken grotto]

which op amp?

[sleek lily]

Probably cause they hated them too

[broken grotto]

you can buy thousands of different op amps

[sleek lily]

I don't remember the model off the top of my head

I just remember it's the evil opamp lol

[broken grotto]

it's just stability and baising.

characterstics of op amps vary.

some ops amps come to you unstable, so you can make them stable for your application.

[sleek lily]

Tbf, I will probably find an application where it's heavy dc biasing by default becomes useful in some future project

[broken grotto]

get good at looking at these plots to see if it's unity-gain stable.

for example, the OPA340 was designed by TI to be stable for all gains greater than or equal to 1.

sorry if I'm getting too far into the weeds guys lol

i have some magird tea pro IEM's coming today tho

[lone flame]

have fun with them

[broken grotto]

Are they recieved as good or bad?

Ive heard about the original but not the new ones lol

[lone flame]

idk

i don't really care anymore

If i recommend stuff, i look for the persons preference and what measures good bcs. god who knows what the person would like anyways

so its a higher chance if you pick something that LOTS of people like

i know a dude that likes Sundara Closed

Golden likes the AB1266 even tho it measures not well

for me it's.
Try out lots of stuff. pick what you like. give a damn what other people say about it 😄

(when it comes to comfort, sound and looks)

[broken grotto]

I just buy iems to have fun

[lone flame]

exactly

[broken grotto]

Idc what people say either lol

[lone flame]

same for me with Headphones

i now have 10 headphones and 2 IEMs (one is a shitty Amazon shitbud i got for free)

and i will get more. Because i just like to collect them 😄

some people collect stones, some lots of different currencies, some collect PC hardware, and i just collect audio stuff

i don't search for "the best in the world"
Would be still nice if i find it but uh... not activly searching for that,
i have tried out many stuff, i like many headphones

if i start EQing my headphones to what my preference is

they start to sound pretty similar

so i don't think i can go that much further, or ill find something completly different that blows me away

this Saturday the WOH (World Of Headphones) is in Essen. I will go there with my HD800s and maybe some other headphones, i will listen to lots of stuff, different DACs and AMPs and have fun 😄

maybe i find something interesting

last WOH in Heidelberg, i had my HD600 and FT1 with me. A guy wanted to demo my FT1 xD
i gave my FT1 to him and he made like tons of notes with comfort, sound etc

(my FT1 had and still has the Capra Strap)

i just like being around bunch of idiots like me, sharing the same interests 😄 and enjoying the experience together

[warm scarab]

has anyone here compared space travel 2 and 1

[wintry mirage]

does anyone know how i should break in my subwoofer driver

i know im meant to run it for around 10 hours for a basic break in but not sure on power and frequency

[broken grotto]

You dont.

Just listen

[wintry mirage]

ive been told doing it loosens it up and lowers responce

[broken grotto]

The same thing would happen if you just listen

But yeah, no need to sit them for 10 hours.

[wintry mirage]

does the time you need to listen change depending on the sub

[broken grotto]

Just let them play music man, dont worry too much about the "break in,"

:p

[warm scarab]

if you want to just play pink noise for 10 hours

if you believe in break in that is

[wintry mirage]

ive just been told previously that people do it

[warm scarab]

im not telling its fake or not

but pink noise is how you break them in if that is what you want to do

how you can break them in

or brown noise

[wintry mirage]

i do need to sort out my amp fan its like 17 years old i might put a noctua in it

its running at like 7000 rpm

[warm scarab]

what class is it

[wintry mirage]

class ab

it just runs at a set speed

the amp is only 2u in size so its not big

[velvet hare]

I have iems -> moondrop dawn pro amp -> UGreen 240W usb c charger -> to usb -> then usb connected to motherboard

I’ve been hearing like a windy/electrical noise in my iems, so I’m getting this - Hifime High-Speed USB Isolator (Up to 480Mbps, hi-speed)

Do u guys think it’ll be enough to fix the issue

[lean grove]

Get the jds labs synapse.

And if you're hearing noise due to your USB being dirty, then yeah it should help.

[velvet hare]

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/scout-laugh-gif-21799013

Well you'll find out if it fixes your problem or not

[velvet hare]

Hopefully

I’m trusting Microsoft copilot too much with recommendations

[lean grove]

Uhhhh

Good luck with that

[warm scarab]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/732487520767442968/1243481475463123034/togif.gif

[steel escarp]

I solved all my issues I had with Susvara

turns out I had the headband way too tight

I thought one setting wider would be too loose, since it feels loose for like 10 seconds until it settles. But after that, the headphone kinda sits well and disappears

my ear no longer touches the inside mesh in an annoying way now

[cosmic plume]

What headset would yall recommend for 50€?

Has to be Over Ear, and have a microphone near the mouth, not on a cable

And preferrably relativly "brand named" or popular, ill have to find it in a physical store

[steel escarp]

@cosmic plume have you tried searching yourself what you can get for 50 euros?

[regal moat]

Do you guys think speakers are worth it if 90% of the time you are on the pc you are in a call?

[vestal meadow]

You are likely screwed

[velvet hare]

Should’ve done more research 🥀

I’ll see how it goes

[terse river]

looking for noise cancelling headphones for younger sister. Budget is <300$. All that matters is that noise cancellation is powerful, but she has very picky sensory sensitivities, so she might not like the feeling of complete sensory deprevation (not sure how to describe it, but does anybody know of a good solution?) She doesnt care about audio quality, I just need to find headphones that can fit her sensory needs when noise cancelling is on. They also must be over ear headphones.

[lean grove]

Go on rtings and see their ANC ratings for headphones

And just filter by cost

[terse river]

but would this help find ones that would fit sensory sensitivities? I was mostly asking here because theres a wide audience of people who may know more about headsets that can suit people with sensory sensitivites

[warm scarab]

the science isn't that in depth

its just we have sounds from 20 to 20khz

and we have graphs of which headphones block which of those frequencies at what level

its like a reverse frequency response graph

[lean grove]

Idk. There's a lot that can set off sensory issues and depends entirely on the person and flavor of autism.

Bose are the most comfortable ones I've tried. And they have decent noise isolation.

I think it might be worthwhile to take her to someplace like best buy or a department store and have her try stuff out in person

[broken grotto]

honestly, the mangird tea pro is kind of a vibe

[elder thistle]

something strongly isolating instead of anc, like an hd280 pro, wont block out bassier noises as much but would greatly muffle the rest of sounds

not sure if that'd feel any better. definitely feels more normal though

think shooting muffs / normal hearing protection

maybe not quite as strong

also a lot cheaper

shure srh440a/840a, razer blackshark v2x and probably the other v2 models, and many things I dont have would achieve the same effect

[cosmic plume]

Yeah, JBL Quantum 100 which suck. There are tons of "brand name" headsets, if id research every single one of em id be dead by the time im done.. thats why i asked in here, cuz people already know their stuff here

They dont gotta be amazing and world class, they just gotta be decent and comfortable enough to game and vc with em

[lone flame]

you mean burn in?

fck that nonsense

[umbral charm]

My dad's looking to buy a party speaker but he wants one that can plays cds, he's said all the ones he's found are mostly Bluetooth.

Not sure exactly what they're called he said he wants a good one and doesn't really wanna go above £300-500 If they're not any good.
Wants to be able to move it around so he can have it outside when he has a bbq

If anyone has any suggestions would be much appreciated 🙂

[steel escarp]

The reality is that you cant get anything decent for 50 bucks with your requirements

At that price you are praying for borderline not complete trash

[cosmic plume]

What? What happened to decent 30€ headphones??

[steel escarp]

Bro if you want budget decent. You gotta get earbuds

[cosmic plume]

Yeah no, cant get earbuds, too uncomfortable, they start hurting in no time

[steel escarp]

Then save up more

[cosmic plume]

But seriously? There isnt any 50 Euro headset with an acceptable and like, flexible headstrap (aka tiltable so they fit flush) with non crap cushios?

[steel escarp]

Didn't you also want wireless?

[cosmic plume]

Just a few months ago i bought Bluetooth jbl headphones over ear for 70€

[cosmic plume]

No, i wanted wired

Its for a pc

[steel escarp]

epos gsp 600

It can be had for 80

[cosmic plume]

Yea.. okay imma be clear: i have to try and not waste a 50€ store giftcard

I can add a bit to it, but yea

[cosmic plume]

(the lowest i see em for is 130€)

[cosmic plume]

Like, these were wireless and are fine and all.. there has to be a cheaper known brand/model for 50€ that isnt absolute ass

[steel escarp]

Maybe spent it on something else

[warm scarab]

try cloud 2 or 3 on discount

[umbral charm]

I’m currently using Sennheiser HD600s, but since they’re open backed, I’m struggling with privacy (sound leakage + hearing people around me). I’m looking for a closed back alternative that’s good for music production.

Budget: around £250 (maybe up to £300 if it’s really worth it) - wanted to keep the budget around what I paid for the 600s which was £250
Use case: everything. writing, mixing, and mastering (I’m still learning so they’ll be my all rounders)
Sound preference: as accurate/neutral as possible (don’t want coloration or artifacts)
Comfort: very important (I spend hours wearing them)
Portability: not needed (just for home studio use)
Isolation: strong isolation + no sound leakage is a must
Setup: plugging straight into my PC (no amp yet, but open to one if it’s worthwhile) - if motherboard matters: MSI PRO B760M-A WIFI
Genre: Dancefloor Drum & Bass (EDM) - If it helps at all I can provide a track or 2 so you get the feel of what it is.

[steel escarp]

DT700 Pro X if you are willing to EQ

[umbral charm]

I've asked afew places to try get different suggestions but there's also other stuff that's been mentioned (closed backs generally having trade offs) but I'd proabbly keep my 600s for mixing / mastering given needing privacy when writing.

I was suggested afew pairs (Dt770pro/880pro/990pro, slate vsx, ath m50x, hd 620s, Sony mdr 7506, Fiio FT1)
I was also told to avoid 770s/990s as theyre not made for producing, another person vouched on that and said he hates his.

I was hoping to get something I can just plug in and use, like I had done with my current pair

[cosmic plume]

Seems interesting.. some also recommend Logitech G432, whats the stance on them?

[steel escarp]

Oh good luck with that. Cheap closed backs are usually not neutral at all.

They always have some weirdness

Everything in your list has

[umbral charm]

How fiddly are they? Because I haven't got a clue what I'd be doing 😂

[steel escarp]

Honestly. If you are serious about music producing. It'd be a good idea to EQ your headphones.

[umbral charm]

I want to be, but again, I have no idea what I'm doing on that side of things.

[steel escarp]

Then I'd suggest IEMs

They are tuned quite good for not that much money

Do you need your closed back for mixing too? Or just games and music? @umbral charm

That changes what to get quite a lot

[umbral charm]

I wanted a pair that I could just use for everything but at the same time I could just use my 600s for mixing/mastering and then closed backs for writing everything.

I wanted studio monitors but I can't because of privacy, people being too loud (you get the point) - but that's also why I wanted to look into closed backs

But quickly realised they come with trade offs

[steel escarp]

HD620 gives really good sound isolation

Honestly not a bad pick

[umbral charm]

Yeah that was one pair I was suggested tbf

They come up to 279

Can get them for 245

Ive also seen amps mentioned afew times, would I benefit from one at all?

[lean grove]

None of the headphones you've mentioned are particularly hard to power so they should all be usable with your basic computer audio

If you think that your headphones are too quiet or you hear weird noises then yeah get a DAC or an amp

But otherwise there's no reason to get one without testing how the headphones are gonna interact with what you have right now.

[umbral charm]

Yeah that's fair

I like my hd600s tbf, just some cases stuff comes off really harsh. Like if I open an instance of serum, just a basic saw wave is quite harsh so I tend to turn them down or just avoid playing one

Makes my ears ring

Just placed the order for them. Hopefully I can make music in peace when they arrive 😂

[lean grove]

I don't think better source equipment will fix that.

[steel escarp]

wdym, just get a darker sounding amp/dac

[umbral charm]

It's a non-issue anyway, not like Im gonna have that always playing so it's fine

The goal is literally just to block out more sound from around me, and have less audio leak to them

[lean grove]

I will say that the 620s are one of the best isolating headphones I heard at the convention

Not really the best sounding, but you can always use parametric EQ to remedy that

[umbral charm]

Ill have to come back and ask about that then. I have no idea what I'd need to do to make sure theyre sounding how I need them to

[umbral charm]

But that's really good news 😄

Will I even be able to plug both pairs of headphones into my pc? if motherboard matters to help, I've got the msi pro b760m-a wifi ddr4

Just want to make sure I'll easily be able to switch between the 2 and not have to unplug them to swap

[lean grove]

Once you get over the hurdle of finding something that can do parametric eq, it's pretty easy.

[umbral charm]

I've got proq if that means anything

[lean grove]

Idk anything about music production

[umbral charm]

ProQ from what I know can have as many bands as you want

And if necessary u can set bands to L/R/Stereo/Mid/Side

But again I dont actually know what I'd need to be doing so

[lean grove]

And that one idk. You might have to do something weird to windows to get it to output the same audio across multiple outputs

Virtual audio cables maybe?