audio-tech

[red quest]

1 monacor, 1 magnat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6f_a8sc1WI

just found this

[humble willow]

what benefits do iems have over in ear wireless headphones?
i want better audio devices for gaming / lisening to music but idk if i should get IEMs or something else

[terse river]

A wireless connection will always have worse audio quality than a wired connection

[humble willow]

good point

[green marsh]

not true

you can get lossless hi res audio over a wireless connection

[terse river]

Bluetooth

Is what I assume they were talking about

[green marsh]

the real problem is latency and if you happen to want to be able to speak

[green marsh]

there are lossless bluetooth protocols

[terse river]

I haven’t heard of that actually lemme look that up

[lean grove]

i can find you a dogshit wired dac that will perform worse than a bluetooth dac.

prozor dac vs qudelix 5k for example

[lean grove]

wireless need a 2.4ghz dongle because without it, relying on bluetooth, you're gonna have chunky latency that will make competative gaming impossible.

but if its just for like, baldurs gate or something, no real harm in using bluetooth. might be a bit annoying with the latency tho

[humble willow]

all of my competitive gaming is cs2 and hoi4 i guess, those are more surround sound focused i'd say

[lean grove]

think you can tolerate around 200 ms of audio delay?

i sure cant

[humble willow]

idk i've never had good internet lol

everything is delayed

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-jake-the-dog-adventure-time-idunno-idk-gif-5265736

[zenith pawn]

I'd say 200ms audio delay is gonna be too bad for cs of all things

at least with bad internet everything is delayed, not just half your senses

[humble willow]

the verbal abuse somehow isnt

[red quest]

just found this video about the type of speaker i have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCjll5EZFak

i did NOT realise it can go that much

[prime minnow]

lol

[ocean pulsar]

200ms is worse than the worst protocol can do
Any protocol can be screwed up to that point, but 32 to sub 20ms is quite possible

[lone flame]

its about Bluetooth.

Wireless itself mostly have around 20ms if bad it may be 50ms

but Bluetooth is usually at a more likely 200+ms latency

[warm scarab]

you can get bt to have low latency with bt receivers that dont rely on the windows ones like creative ones

[unique wind]

my fiio utws5 setup was pretty nice until i dropped one and it stopped working

[strange lark]

what's a good professional grade mic that preferably won't break the bank?

like something i can mount on a boom arm.

[warm scarab]

what use case

[strange lark]

voice chat and content creation.

[warm scarab]

xm8500

Should be about 20-30$

[lone flame]

well that too.
But your headset hast to support these low latency stuff too

and most BT devices have a high latency

expacially headphones etc

also Wireless is generally better than bluetooth

bigger bandwith and generally lower latency. what do you want more? 😄

[unique wind]

it would be incredible if someone made a product like the Fiio UTWS5, but with a proprietary 2.4GHz receiver that had negligible latency

[lone flame]

well. yeah.
But noone knows why manufactors won't just start using tech correctly

[sleek lily]

I'm sure there is some random AliExpress thing like that

[warm scarab]

find it

i dont believe you

[lean grove]

200 ms is very common on PC.
scrolls down to the latency section and over SBC and LDAC through PC you can see ~200ms on a vast majority of wireless devices.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/bluetooth-connection

[ocean pulsar]

oh yea, but you still can do much better than that, every single protocol including sbc can do better than 100ms, its just frequently screwed up

[lean grove]

so when I say that someone should expect around 200 ms of audio delay when using bluetooth on audio, you come chiming in saying... what?

200ms is worse than the worst protocol can do
Any protocol can be screwed up to that point, but 32 to sub 20ms is quite possible

that we shouldn't evaluate bluetooth audio latency based on the vast majority of devices and should evaluate it under best possible conditions?

[ocean pulsar]

correct, because if we care about latency, we wont buy the shit devices for it

[lean grove]

thats not how that works. you're gauging the technology off of cherry picked best examples, not based off of what just about everyone will experience.

You're saying that 200ms is a failure of the technology, implying that it isnt wholey representative of the technology itself.

you're giving a false sense of confidence in bluetooth by saying its capable of sub 100ms latency. and thats only in a tiny fraction of the market.

im saying that bluetooth is not a good option if you care about latency because pretty much everything out there is garbage for it

[ocean pulsar]

yes, because if you care about latency, you can just buy a low latency device

[lean grove]

then please feel free to recommend one of those devices

instead of making vague unnecessary corrections

i would be happy for this person to find a bluetooth device that works for them with low latency

[ocean pulsar]

what i went with for low latency bluetooth was a random avantree aptx-ll transmitter and btr3k

[unique wind]

when i shopped for it a couple years ago the best option was a creative usb receiver and fiio utws5

to get aptx adaptive

with adapters you can even hook them up to balanced headphones

i had connection issues a few times but it was mostly good

[ocean pulsar]

adaptive is worse than ll according to everything ive seen tho and already ll is on the limit

[unique wind]

iirc i chose adaptive over LL because people complained about LL sounding bad and not being meaningfully lower latency than adaptive

[ocean pulsar]

its not perfect in that if you go through that in 1 ear and direct in the other, you get wonky offset effects, where my best wireless (senny rs220) you cant hear any wonkiness
but its better than anything else ive actually ab tested

[ocean pulsar]

oh sure, anything under 100ms isnt meaningful for most folks, but i like(d when still had time to play games) rhythm games

[unique wind]

yeah i never came across any instances where the delay was the cause of me dying in competitive fps games so i didnt care

ill take 50ms with better quality over bitcrushed 30ms

[ocean pulsar]

never had bitcrushing problem with my avantree

disadvantage of ll ofc is that it doesnt support tws natively

you neeeeed adaptive for that

but for clip onto headphone adapter? btr3k is sweet, btr3 also good, forget if it has ll

[unique wind]

yeah that's like the whole point bro

[ocean pulsar]

yea most of my headphones are 1 cable 1 side

[unique wind]

i had to go back ages in chat history to find that photo

i havent used sundara or utws5 in years

[ocean pulsar]

yea itll work, its probably the best option if you have a cable per side headphone and cant stand a short wire, but it is a tiny bit more expensive and a measurable if hard to notice amount more latency

[unique wind]

my life would be complete if airpods pro supported aptx adaptive

i would just use those in transparency mode at my desk

[ocean pulsar]

lol yea fat luck

[unique wind]

[ocean pulsar]

wait og momentum tws supports aptx-ll????

[unique wind]

airpods pro 2 in transparency mode are the most enjoyable IEM experience that ive had

[zenith pawn]

Somebody should jailbreak airpods

[unique wind]

if i could just connect them to my PC with tolerable latency i would be so happy

[ocean pulsar]

wouldnt fix it, codecs need decoders which is hardware

[green marsh]

i mean just use an apple desktop

[ocean pulsar]

No dice, still high latency
AFAIK only low latency option for airpods is vision pro with others coming soon tm

[left verge]

So I'm looking for audiophile headphones that i can use for basically anything. I do game, but i also listen to music a bit more than that. My budget is $100-125 usd. I live in the US and i'm fine with whatever retailer, not just amazon. Preferably, i want no IEM/Earbuds at all. The problem with them for is that none of them fit well in my ear, no matter how small or how large they may be, they are just super uncomfortable. I also don't care if they are open back or closed back (If i couldn't post without a tag i would). I've seen the FT1s from Fiio, the SHP9600s from PHILIPS, the hifiman deva pro (wired), and the AD500X from Technica

[lone flame]

we talk about Wireless Headphones or Headsets

not seperate expensive dongles that no normal person would buy

like why dafuq spending 100-200 dollars more for something i dont want

when all i want is a working low latency headset

so i just grab the next 2,4ghz one and im happy bcs it has low latency

[lone flame]

If you want a closed back

FiiO FT1

If you want an open back.
HE400se
or
HD560s

[lone flame]

ontop. That would not fill the requirements of most people about "no cables pls"

you still would need a wired headphone to connect it into that doingle

[ocean pulsar]

That is how much wireless costs, and is pretty much the price to get a wireless headset of the same quality

[lone flame]

For gaming latency is important. for regular listening.. noone gives a f...

[ocean pulsar]

Different people have different requirements, for people who need low latency and can't have any wires at all, rip, dongle time only

[lone flame]

and it is a fact that nearly every Bluetooth Headset on the market has high latency

[lone flame]

Most people that want wireless just dont like wires

If they would want wired i would use a Apple Dongle or KA11 or else

[ocean pulsar]

and that is because most people dont care about latency

[zenith pawn]

that makes me wonder, what are wireless gaming headsets using, surely "gamers" would at least notice the latency

[ocean pulsar]

if you want max quality, you are limited in your options
if you want to be able to walk away from the computer very far and have high quality, theres 1 option left, and thats bluetooth adapter to wired cans

[ocean pulsar]

most actually use bluetooth under the hood, just using custom codecs over bluetooth or disabling certain bluetooth features that hurt latency

there are a few that use custom codecs, old astro headsets and sennheiser RF headsets

no bluetooth involved there, but they are very rare

[lone flame]

tbh. Most wireless Headsets in general will handle most flats or houses.

your extreme rarity of usecase is valid. But from houndreds of people i had. Noone wanted that

[lone flame]

wifi or so

[ocean pulsar]

nooo

[zenith pawn]

surely not wifi but just some 2.4 ghz protocol

[ocean pulsar]

wifi uses an insane amount of power

[lone flame]

idk the word in english

[zenith pawn]

for the ones that use a dongle

[ocean pulsar]

bluetooth

[warm scarab]

tbh movies can be annoying depending on the amount of delay

[ocean pulsar]

the only non bluetooth are the sennheiser and astro ones and the actual radio headsets (analog)

[warm scarab]

also id again like to restate

[lone flame]

ah wireless is actually "point to point"

so not Bluetooth

its like Walkie Talkies

[zenith pawn]

good thing about video playback is you can adjust delay to compensate i guess

[warm scarab]

majority of bt delay on desktops is caused by windows

[ocean pulsar]

bluetooth is p2p

[ocean pulsar]

walkie talkies are analog

[warm scarab]

you can avoid that delay by using certain bt receivers with their own drivers

[lone flame]

but that is not bluetooth

[lone flame]

Every signal transfered through the air is analog

[warm scarab]

yeah but kinda annoying when it doesn't do that automatically

[zenith pawn]

im sure theres both, headphones that use 2.4 ghz and ones that use bluetooth, i was just curious

[warm scarab]

this is cope

and intentional ignorance

[ocean pulsar]

its not bluetooth like intel macs arent pcs
sure but its the same under the hood if you chose different software

[zenith pawn]

it's through an analog medium but that doesn't mean the signal being transferred is not interpteted as digital

[lone flame]

ok so. Explain to me how you can send a digital 1/0 signal through the analogue world?

[warm scarab]

razer has some, sucks tho because razer

[ocean pulsar]

2.4 means 99% its bluetooth

[warm scarab]

because the medium is analog doesn't mean the conveyed info is in analog form

[zenith pawn]

wait really? i thought it meant it was dongle and they used some other protocol

[ocean pulsar]

serdes units

[zenith pawn]

so bluetooth is king is it

[ocean pulsar]

yea they take bluetooth chips, turn off certain standardized things to reduce latency, and boom

[warm scarab]

this is honestly such a stupid take

by this logic both digital and analog are signals that come from one end of a cable

therefore same thing

[zenith pawn]

well there you have it, digital signals are impossible

why is there a filter

[lone flame]

no

its lirerally "funk"

idk the english word

[warm scarab]

dacs are an illusion

[ocean pulsar]

[modem screeching noises]

[warm scarab]

just listen to binary bro

[lone flame]

You need something to decode the information

[warm scarab]

skill issue

[warm scarab]

its literally your argument

[lone flame]

maybe i wrote that bit shitty tbh

still
2.4gHz isn't = Bluetooth

it is literally a different tech

[ocean pulsar]

there are 2 confirmed headsets that dont use bluetooth

[lone flame]

😮 2

Lot of headsets have Bluetooth and 2.4ghz

[warm scarab]

i mean yeah but your agument for saying that was really bad

[ocean pulsar]

yea and how does their 2.4ghz work

[lone flame]

"funk"

[left verge]

Those were the 3 I had on my list

[warm scarab]

their 2.4 and regular standard bt protocol is significantly different

also a cope argument

ur both wrong

[ocean pulsar]

the answer is they take bluetooth and they turn off pairing, and a few extra latency adding bluetooth features and call it 2.4

[lone flame]

no

its literally a different tech

2.4ghz has more bandwith etc

[ocean pulsar]

how is it different?

[lone flame]

Because they don't use any BT codecs etc

its just no BT

WiFi and Bluetooth are different techs too

but its both wireless and can transfer data

[ocean pulsar]

wifi and bluetooth are different techs, but bluetooth and lightspeed arent

for a basic example

[lone flame]

they are

[ocean pulsar]

so if i provided proof that they are, would you change your mind?

[zenith pawn]

if they have a dongle, do you think theyre still generally using a custom version of bluetooth? or what exactly are they sending over there

[lone flame]

show me the proof first...

not like that 2.4gHz has generaly specs that are not possible for BT

[ocean pulsar]

im good, if you arent open to changing your mind, ill just keep stating the details

[ocean pulsar]

again they just cut out inconvenient parts of the protocol like error correction and frequency hopping (tho many keep frequency hopping and can be easily identified as bt by using bt's frequency hopping)

[lone flame]

you offered "proof" i say "ok" now u dont wanna show proof 👍

[ocean pulsar]

So if i provide proof you are open to changing your mind?

[lone flame]

depends... like i said

if it makes sense?

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/sushichaeng-chips-eating-nom-crisps-gif-22496360

[zenith pawn]

i would be interested to see because it doesn't look like anybody actually investigates specifically what protocol is used on the dongles

rtings says "many" use a proprietary 2.4 ghz protocol, but they don't look into it on specific headphones

[lone flame]

like. If "2.4gHz" and Wireless are the same. Wouldn't make sense with stuff bandwith etc

also you can have simultaneous audio on lot of devises

where you can hear Bluetooth AND 2.4gHz Wireless at the same time

[warm scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/hawktuah-skyrim-fusrodah-hawh-tuah-gif-17983115795020855308

[zenith pawn]

rtings is based because they just dont give a shit

they measure the actual specs

[warm scarab]

and then they rate them completely arbitrary

[zenith pawn]

how

[warm scarab]

their frequency response target is a complete joke

[lone flame]

new or old one?

[warm scarab]

they changed it?

[lone flame]

since V1.8?

[zenith pawn]

i like their target because their target is identical to my favorite iem 🧌

[lone flame]

they got an 5128 xD

[warm scarab]

no target

not measurement device

[lone flame]

they have multiple targets

[zenith pawn]

wait what i think they changed their target

[warm scarab]

iem, headphone and speaker targets are different for a reason

[warm scarab]

headphone one

they used speaker bass target + and diffuse for highs

it was so fucking stupid

[zenith pawn]

yeah and they haev different ones

[warm scarab]

and speaker bass target they used is like

also a completely nonsensical bass target that I couldn't even find the source to

they said it was the inhouse target yet it looks nothing like it

[lone flame]

headphone one what?

[warm scarab]

the standard one used for the entire website man idk the name

headphones 1.4

that was a joke

let me check 1.8

[lone flame]

now they are at V2.0

[warm scarab]

1.8

and people call harman overtly bassy lol

[warm scarab]

ill check

actually can you link it

[sleek lily]

Isn't Harman meant to be bassy?

It's not meant to be a neutral target afaik

[zenith pawn]

i thought so but people critique it for that

[warm scarab]

meant to be the target most people like

[zenith pawn]

just as an opinion thing

[sleek lily]

It's more like an average normies enjoyment representation or something

[warm scarab]

its supposed to be like, neutral with a touch of what people like

[zenith pawn]

well i dont have headphones to compare

[lone flame]

That Target is 5128 DF Tilt with harman Bass

and this Target is actually pretty legit

[warm scarab]

that target actually looks okay honestly

but for the longest time it was a complete joke

[lone flame]

yeah it was

[warm scarab]

and I don't think they are re-measuring the old headphones they rated

and those reviews are still up there

[lone flame]

now they just redid everything from start

[warm scarab]

with completely meaningless scores

[lone flame]

and now its actually legit xD

[warm scarab]

one more thing

[lone flame]

in most stuff

[green marsh]

used to be

before they got 5128

[warm scarab]

even if FR is objectively rated as far as the target goes

the final ratings are complete jokes still

because

like who the fuck decided that group delay is 15% of what determines the audio quality of a headphone

these allocated percentages are still absolute jokes

even if the individual measurements arent

like this too

who decided low freq extrusion makes up 10% of the quality of a bass compliance target

[lone flame]

where do you find these % ratings?

[zenith pawn]

go to "our verdict"

wait

[unique wind]

peqdb better

i like peqdb bass, midrange, and low-mid treble, but with harman 2018 upper treble rolloff

[warm scarab]

the individual measurements according to established compliances to targets, yeah they are good

but the scores of everything that is not that

are complete jokes

and are almost randomly determined as to what is "good"

[zenith pawn]

do i have to do a bunch of work to use peqdb or can i just download a profile online based on my iem

[lone flame]

the Peqdb guy is uhh

[zenith pawn]

just to try it out

[lone flame]

Sad

[unique wind]

yeah i dont care that sharur made peqdb

the target is good

[warm scarab]

sharur banned dreamic for calling him out to be an indian

it was funny

[lone flame]

he just took so much measurements from others and said "we have the biggest measurement database"

[zenith pawn]

the dude's website doesn't work

i click select a headphone and nothing happens

[lone flame]

and now he mixed up all different Rigs and uses it for the same targets

[warm scarab]

that doesn't make the statement wrong lmao

[unique wind]

peqdb grapher? it works fine for me

[lone flame]

it doesnt xD

but most of the Measurements are useless bcs of the wrong Targets there

[warm scarab]

still yeah tho

[zenith pawn]

im just trying to pick my iems and when i click the dropdown, it only works like 5% of the time

[warm scarab]

using different rigs to compare is a complete joke

[zenith pawn]

let me try another browser

[lone flame]

he has 5128 Targets for stuff measured on a 711 clone and kb501x pinna etc

[warm scarab]

every headphone needs to be on the same rig in same conditions

[zenith pawn]

whup tee doo it works fine on chromium

[lone flame]

EXACTLY!

and he just doesnt give a fck

[zenith pawn]

except my iem is listed like 6 times

with no other qualifiers

[unique wind]

yeah there'll be measurements from multiple different sources

and tip types

[zenith pawn]

it doesnt tell me which source

none of them say the tip

[warm scarab]

lol

[lone flame]

Only 2 Rigs that are comparable are a Gras 45c and 711 clone if they use the same Pinna

[zenith pawn]

there's one more scrolled off, i couldnt fit in one screenshot

[warm scarab]

whatg about after clicking on it

maybe it says then

[zenith pawn]

it just chooses it

[warm scarab]

oh

[unique wind]

nova op btw

i really hope someone else makes an iem this good

im not buying a third pair of novas

theyre too fragile but sound so fuckin good

[zenith pawn]

theres supposed to be an option to download an eq for your iem to get the peqdb generic target right... how do i just do that

[unique wind]

i dont recommend taking the whole eq profile on an iem like your reds because the upper treble on reds is fucked and cant be fixed with a peak filter

you cannot fix this with auto generated peak filters

[zenith pawn]

send me your truthear nova :/

is this an all iems thing or a bad iem thing

[unique wind]

it's just hard to design iems and headphones that have smooth upper treble extension

iems are far easier to design than headphones

[lone flame]

ear canal diff too often

[zenith pawn]

this is a machine measurement

[lone flame]

depending on how deep you put them into your ears.

[unique wind]

when they have huge dips in the response like that they end up varying based on fitment in different ear shapes like yak just said

[lone flame]

it can vary in sound ALOT

[unique wind]

you cant just do a high shelf level adjustment like you could on nova

[zenith pawn]

oh i thought you meant something different

my reds are probably somewhat shallow in my ear because of how girthy they are

[unique wind]

you could try to fill in the dips that occur in your own ears with manual eq using sine sweeps but that's gonna be hard

easier to just buy a better iem xd

unfortunately i dont know of any that are as good as nova that are reasonably priced

and nova are too fragile

[zenith pawn]

yeah that was mostly a joke

[lone flame]

what kind of sound signature do you like?

Neutral, Warm, Bassy, Bright

[ocean pulsar]

ok heres a random example
https://fccid.io/document.php?id=4336990
hyperx cloud flight
you look at the rf section, and it lists frequencies and channels
37 2mhz channels
hmm what else has 37 2mhz channels
BLE if you turn off advertising
therefore this headset's "gaming grade 2.4ghz wireless" is using BLE without advertising it (literally)

[zenith pawn]

im pretty happy with the sound profile on my truthear reds

[unique wind]

reds are pretty inoffensive, i would be content with them

they didnt have any treble peaks in my ears

[zenith pawn]

i only have one other thing to compare to, other than shitty headphones, which is the 7hz zero2

[unique wind]

they just sound less detailed than nova because of the dips

[zenith pawn]

the thing i like most is how open they sound

[left verge]

@lone flame I was also looking an Deva Pros and sundaras

[sleek lily]

I should measure my main amplifier with all of it's gain profiles

I'm curious what the Ragnarok looks like with different gain levels

[lone flame]

no

[zenith pawn]

how much money do you need to spend on open back headphones before its like, good, because all i have now is iems but it could be nice to try something different

[lone flame]

Edition XS got to cheap for Sundara

[sleek lily]

Ngl, edition xs is really good

Overall I think he560v4 is a little more daily able though

And it's a little cheaper open box

But xs does a really good job with presentation

[lone flame]

no permissions ofr the page

[ocean pulsar]

rip, ill find a non us gov mirror

https://fccid.io/document.php?id=4336990

[left verge]

I did see one, but lowest i could see was $150

[ocean pulsar]

open back is pretty easy, he400se i thought was pretty great

[unique wind]

hifimememan

[lean grove]

KSC75 and Porta pro are calling for you

[sleek lily]

@zenith pawn aren't you in Europe?

Hifiman had some nuts b stock options I wanted to get but they locked to EU only

Because America is too free for them 🦅

[zenith pawn]

no im in USA

[lone flame]

i dont find the wireless part

[ocean pulsar]

ctrl f
"Channels"

also the entire document is talking about wireless lol

[lone flame]

no xD

only 3 times wireless mentioned

[ocean pulsar]

smh, just read the document, pretty much every term in the document that isnt every day english is a technical term for wireless comms

[lone flame]

FCC, IC

i see

that ain't Bluetooth

ah wait i mixed something up lol

[ocean pulsar]

fcc is our bureau for dealing with everything wireless

and yea its not bluetooth, its BLE which stands for Bluetooth low energy

as for ic yea i guess that isnt a wireless specific term

[lone flame]

and where does it say it has Bluetooth? or BLE?

[ocean pulsar]

read what i type fam

[lone flame]

but BLE has 40 2 mhz channels iirc

[ocean pulsar]

keep reading

[lone flame]

i did?

see nothing there

[ocean pulsar]

https://www.mathworks.com/help/examples/bluetooth/win64/BLEChannelHoppingExample_01.png

https://www.mathworks.com/help/bluetooth/ug/bluetooth-le-channel-selection-algorithms.html

[lone flame]

and?

[ocean pulsar]

how many data channels?

[lone flame]

same amount of channels doesn't mean its the same

V8 Diesel and V8 Gasoline arent the same

[ocean pulsar]

same amount of channels in the same frequencies with the same powers,

also do you know the difference between diesel and gasoline?

[lone flame]

Diesel self ignites, Gasoline gets ignited

[ocean pulsar]

nope

[lone flame]

? explain?

[ocean pulsar]

diesel can get ignited no problem, and gasoline self igniting is a constant problem

[kind sluice]

someone be real with me for the extra 250$ does it makes sense to get XM6 ($450) vs XM4($200)

[lone flame]

Bose QC Ultra

[ocean pulsar]

no, xm4 are cool, especially after the firmware updates

[lone flame]

b but, Diesel uses hard compression and high temerapture that self ignites...
And Gasoline uses spark plugs...

[green marsh]

yeah with high compression engines gas can ignite before its supposed to

[kind sluice]

tryna stick to sony over bose as I have had a better time using sony products (tv's really lmao not audio)

[lone flame]

yeah. imo. dont stick to companies

different companies have differently nice products

like Razer. Razer mostly sucks in Audio

probably have nice keebs and mice

[ocean pulsar]

and that is only due to a dozen or so atoms of difference
the mechanics are the same, and the physical engines are also the same, with super minor differences to max out the potential of each thing
to convert a gas to a diesel (a really crappy illegal one) takes a turbo and tuning
a diesel to a gas is a bit harder but you can theoretically just do it via tuning as long as its injected

[left verge]

but from i've hear you need an amp, which kind of kills the value

[ocean pulsar]

works perfectly fine with anything stronger than apple dong

eg 31993 or 43131

[lone flame]

still not the same engine. Bcs Diesel Engines do not need spark plugs

[ocean pulsar]

gas engines dont need spark plugs either
they just work a heck of a lot better with them

[lone flame]

Bro. Its actually not the same engine bcs of one has spark plugs, the other doesnt.
Not about if it does not or doesnt

its just like that

[sleek lily]

How did an audio channel become a gas vs diesel channel

[lean grove]

"need" is a strong word.

[lone flame]

his statement is that 2,4gHz is Bluetooth and i say it isnt

[ocean pulsar]

take spark plugs out of a gas engine and get it running on deisel is the same as what the usb dongles are doing to bluetooth to get their custom protocols

[lone flame]

as example i said Gasoline and Diesel engines are not the same. But both can have 8 Cylinders

[ocean pulsar]

yea but you can make an engine that runs both

they are so incredibly similar its literally a half dozen atoms

[lone flame]

Bro.. A Dieselengine is build to have higher compression etc

you would nee complretly different Cylinders etc

[ocean pulsar]

skill issue, get a better gas engine lol

[left verge]

Well, from what i've heard, you actually NEED one
Power targets are too high for a normal pc amp, from what i've heard

[ocean pulsar]

nah, just the impedance is low so crappy high OI onboard stuff will sound wonky

[lone flame]

a Gasoline engines is just not designed to get that amout of compression

[ocean pulsar]

itll have plenty of power unless its crazy weak which is super rare these days

[lone flame]

Go to an Mechanic and say "its easy to power a Gasoline engine with Diesel"

he will start counting issues after issues lol

[ocean pulsar]

yea and a standard bluetooth chip doesnt support the special nonsense the custom protocols

[lone flame]

its not bluetooth

[green marsh]

its obviously the normal progression of topics

[ocean pulsar]

i never said it was easy, just that its the same principle under the hood, and theoretically possible to switch between them

[lone flame]

you would need to rebuild the engine...

[ocean pulsar]

its not bluetooth like hybrid cars dont use gas

[ocean pulsar]

sure, still an internal combustion engine with a crankshaft, pistons, crankcase, oil, etc etc

[sleek lily]

So let's start with a question. What actually differentiates the two?

[civic beacon]

As someone who asked that same question when deciding between WH-1000XM3 and WH-1000XM5's a few years ago... I went with the WH-1000XM3's. Saved $200 and they sound great. I wish I had bought the WH-1000XM4's though as they support multi-device pairing, but they weren't available when I was looking to buy.

[lone flame]

Bandwith, Latency, Range, and the intereference of the signal iirc

[ocean pulsar]

yea none of this is true

[sleek lily]

Rather than a pretty bad faith equivalency where we go off topic to non related portions of the analogy

[sleek lily]

You're starting with the conclusion. From a signal stance in binary, what differentiates them.

[lone flame]

can ya rephrase that?

[lean grove]

no. there's a lot of superstition and bad info on how much power headphones actually need.
at normal listening volumes of like, 90ish db its usually quite low. like a few mW.
im listening to planars that are higher impedance and lower sensitivity than the 400se on my PC motherboard right now and at 100% volume its like, what I would consider to be on the louder side of normal.
if you want to listen loud and EQ, then yeah you're gonna want more juice. but for casual listening i think you'll be surprised. and even then, worse case scenario its too quiet or you get a little bit of clipping and you can just order a $100 amp and get more than enough power.

[sleek lily]

In a signal proc sense, what differentiates them.

If you don't know how to answer this, you don't have the prerequisite knowledge to even start to discuss this. This doesn't mean don't, but start by doing the research first. Not screaming about what you don't get

[vestal meadow]

I surprisingly have no idea what is happening here

On the topic of he400se as someone who has it i would say the hd560s is much better

[left verge]

Atp, it's either going to be a 560s or a philips SHP9600
Maybe there's better options, but are quite low Hz, and for what I listen to, that helps

[lean grove]

shp9600 get a double thumbs down from me.

[zenith pawn]

bro just reworded it and said the other guy is wrong

[vestal meadow]

Unless you want a planar he400se is meh they aren't bad by any definition of the word. And i still use them from time to time even after I got the edition xs

[green marsh]

i would not recommend a 9600 in any case

[lean grove]

thats the carmonben way.

[zenith pawn]

this guy has never seen a diesel engine before

well, maybe today it might be true since direct injection is becoming more popular

but you cant just convert my car to diesel without redesigning the entire engine basically

[green marsh]

just swap out all the parts and its that simple

[lean grove]

if you're on a budget and you want good bass, you should look into IEMs. the bass that comes out of a $100 iem is gonna be better than any $100 headphone.

[vestal meadow]

How does this relate to audio tho?

[left verge]

Why's that?
I'm guessing personal experience

[zenith pawn]

read the reply chain

its funny

[ocean pulsar]

for it to work well? sure
but you can get it to combust and turn over
it was a bad analogy that I didnt make

[lean grove]

its odly thin and muddy at the same time. just sounds bad.

[left verge]

I want nothing to do with IEMS
I'm trying to avoid them

[vestal meadow]

The hd560s would like to disagree.

[left verge]

Hmmm, ok

[lean grove]

how much is a 560s

[left verge]

Besides the HD560s, which other ones would you recommend?

[vestal meadow]

If you want the last word in detail iems would be the best way to go for that price. But with cheap planars and hd560s

[zenith pawn]

this is absurd

[left verge]

Like 270
But used is a lot cheaper

[vestal meadow]

Here they sell for the same price as the he400se

[ocean pulsar]

as was the analogy
again i didnt make it

[vestal meadow]

Wat they are that expensive now?

[lean grove]

yes.

[vestal meadow]

That sucks man. I got them for 90 used with warranty

And that's in india

[lone flame]

i don't find much about the direct Signal processing.
What i find is.
2,4gHz Wireless has less latency, can be lossless, no pairing needs more energy
no frequency hops or so

[zenith pawn]

when you say 2.4 ghz wireless it's confusing, because bluetooth is also 2.4 ghz wireless

[vestal meadow]

Exactly

[left verge]

In the US

[lone flame]

WiFi is also 2,4gHz wireless

[zenith pawn]

that too

[ocean pulsar]

i literally linked you a "gaming 2.4ghz wireless" headset that uses 37 frequency hopping channels lol

[left verge]

IEMS is a big no no for me
I should've said that to begin with

[vestal meadow]

Check if you can get the hd560s

Imo great

[lone flame]

one out of many

[vestal meadow]

If not he400se is good

I would check your motherboard audio tho. They are fairly sensitive to noise. And ofcourse the legendary hifiman qc

[ocean pulsar]

ok so i told you the exception to the rule (which is the sennheiser tv headsets) and provided an example of a headset that followed the rule
ball is in your court now to find something that breaks the rule

[left verge]

I'm looking at an auction right now for them

[lone flame]

bcs also have read that Wireless can use FHHS too or something similar

[vestal meadow]

Cool, if you don't mind spending more the fiio ft1 pro is great

[left verge]

I have some custom drivers and etc for mine, plus an eq, so I may be fine

[lean grove]

FT1 is the latest hotness right now. forgot about that.

FT1 are also incredibly easy to run

[vestal meadow]

Drivers i would not hold much hope with drivers

[left verge]

I did look at those, but they were the average 20hz-20khz range
Which i've seen to not be great with bass

[vestal meadow]

Un ess it's an ess dac inside

[lean grove]

they actually have a pretty high bass tilt

[vestal meadow]

Why would you want more than 20hz-20khz

[left verge]

A lot of people have had success with them
It's called AAF

[green marsh]

??

[left verge]

From reviews, it seems like the 20hz headphones don't have as much bass and the ones with 5-8hz

[vestal meadow]

Unless it's changing your audio pipeline to something more like asio or pipewire/jack(linux) I don't think there will be any difference

[lean grove]

you cant hear 5-8 hz.
and these numbers dont mean anything

[green marsh]

that has literally nothing to do with anything

[vestal meadow]

Where did you see the review lol

[lean grove]

FT1 was gobs more bass than the 560s

especially at 20hz

[vestal meadow]

I think he checked ft1 pro which is more analytical

But even that has plenty of bass

[left verge]

Lowest i've seen them is for about 135 usd, which is more than what i would want to spend

[vestal meadow]

For the ft1 pro?

[left verge]

Yup

[vestal meadow]

Hmm that's a shame cuz it's quite a nice price.

[left verge]

and the 560s for like 70 usd, but that's the auction

[vestal meadow]

What I would suggest is hd560s + a new set of pads from Sennheiser directly (if the ones you get are used)

[vestal meadow]

Oh great that sounds good.

I wouldn't get them if they are above 100 tho. Unless they are in like pristine condition

[ionic storm]

fiio bass-mogs your senncuck product any day

[lean grove]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/497302168005509120/796939980266143744/ezgif-5-2c5e06ac2e30.gif

[ionic storm]

praying on their downfall

[left verge]

It's brand new, so i think i would be fine

[vestal meadow]

That's fine then

[elder thistle]

don't... how are you going to replace those earpads

they keep changing them and not selling the right ones

[sleek lily]

Took some measurements of Ragnarok at different gain levels

I'll show them from low to high gain

[left verge]

*reviews
I could probably go through my history, but for the amount of reviews and discussions i've seen that would be a pita
At first i was looking for the SHP9600MB, since it had a mic, and then they discontinued them at least new
Then the fiio FT1s, and then i realized they were too much
And then the he400se's, but "supposedly" you needed an amp
And then the recent R30x from technica

[sleek lily]

Oh wait

One didn't save

1 sec

[warm scarab]

based

wake up nills its time to pay 400$ for another hd600 clone

[sleek lily]

25khz

[zenith pawn]

guys i just found the funniest r/audiophile post ever

[warm scarab]

thats a very high bar ngl

[ionic storm]

[lone flame]

yeah bcs there are alot of dumb posts

[sleek lily]

God damn it, the others saved wrong too...

[zenith pawn]

read this in full and realize what they just said https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1mgktsg/first_time_hearing_monitors_vs_speakers_holy_fuck/

[lean grove]

i paid way more than that for a better hd600

[warm scarab]

this is precisely why DJs are not human

I feel like keeping myself safe whenever someone irl asks me if I could do DJing because I studied audio engineering

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-live-reaction-live-gloop-reaction-gloop-gif-27579307

[warm scarab]

sucks my fucking soul dude

the second sucking I get is from nils mom thats another story however

[lone flame]

omg a car drives forward when i put it in 1st gear???? i thought Putting it in R stands for Racing and not reverse. was wondering why my car is designed to look back while drivin

[warm scarab]

a lot of spanish people actually do this and do money shifts

because r - rapido

[lone flame]

Rapido Expensivo?

even Ron Weasly knows spells

[zenith pawn]

The difference. It was heard when facing away but after turning them, the sound was so direct???

[lone flame]

"Expensive Petroleum"

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XP9c_N1uPyc

[zenith pawn]

damn they got downvoted

[ionic storm]

lmao

[ionic storm]

rightfully so

[sleek lily]

fixed the files

[left verge]

I don't think i'll need to change them?

[sleek lily]

so I recorded at 3 frequencies the output of a schiit ragnarok with 3 different gain settings with a 100hz load. I will send them from low the high gain

[lone flame]

normal for velour pads ~1-1.5 years

[sleek lily]

15khz

[vestal meadow]

He400se don't need an amp. If you aren't a loud listener even lower powered sources can power them well enough.

[sleek lily]

5khz

500hz

[lean grove]

~~<@&750150305383186585> scam ~~ Nevermind

[left verge]

I've had mine for 5-7 years and they are just now peeling

And they aren't swappable

[vestal meadow]

Pads tend to degrade and alter the audio before they actually start to fail

With the hd560s one the foam starts to smush out and lead to worse seal leading to bass leak

[sleek lily]

high gain seems to actually have a bit of an odd behavior. seems to continue to claim rather than reaching a steady dc at the peak

low gain seems to behave the best

I might test this later on with more load voltages if anyone is interested

[vestal meadow]

Could be due to the power supply

[sleek lily]

not unlikely

[vestal meadow]

The voltage swing may be getting closer to the power supplies operating voltage

[lone flame]

ah yes

the situation of "wtf"?

[vestal meadow]

Different material. Plus these are way past degraded.

[sleek lily]

lots of things could be causing it. I wonder if schiit published the actual circuit for the amplifier. If so, I can probably address the actual design flaw

[zenith pawn]

oh god

[vestal meadow]

Which is it again?

[left verge]

5-7 years granted

[sleek lily]

tbf, its a very small issue. I wouldnt be able to identify the difference without my oscilloscope

[left verge]

Can't swap them so....

[sleek lily]

ragnarok

[lone flame]

measure A70 pro

[sleek lily]

if you send me one

im broke

[lone flame]

Somewhat normal in that hobby lmao

Same for me

i need my A70 Pro

[sleek lily]

im broke because most of my time goes to classes

[lone flame]

ah....

[sleek lily]

I cant work much and rent eats most of what I make

that and food

[left verge]

Are the hd560s not foam?

[vestal meadow]

Nearly impossible to tell lol. The online image only shows the top

[sleek lily]

I wish manufacturers were legally required to release the schematics for hobyist equipment

[vestal meadow]

They are velour they won't fail like this but the foam inside will slowly stiffen up and get smushed is my point

[sleek lily]

that would be so nice

[vestal meadow]

True. Toppings designer actually leaked

Many of his designs in asr

[sleek lily]

topping designs are usually pretty generic though

[vestal meadow]

But what he leaked was the a90 discrete stuff tho

So it would require too many matched set of transistors

[vestal meadow]

Not exactly. They do just use opamps but they tend to use multiple layers of global and local feedback

[sleek lily]

dont they just use dual inverted feedback?

[vestal meadow]

This is except the discrete ones ie their flagship

[vestal meadow]

I mean feedback is feedback

[left verge]

Ah ok
So basically just look at that 560s listing and see what it does?

[vestal meadow]

Not sure what you mean with dual inverted feedback

[lone flame]

we need more data in general

[sleek lily]

they just use two opamps using the inverting inputs with feedback to get a non inverted output afaik

[vestal meadow]

560s is solid if you get it for a good price

[sleek lily]

do they not?

[vestal meadow]

Ah

I think not

[lone flame]

lol just ANC xD

[vestal meadow]

Not exactly inverting input of an opamp performs better than the non inverting one

So designers sometimes use the inverting input and add an inverting buffer with it to create a non inverting signal

I think my brain is running exclusively on squirrel farts now donno why

[lone flame]

yeah

[warm scarab]

yeah and people will pay premium for it

omg 0.001 less thd

take my money topping

[sleek lily]

thd is a pretty pointless metric in most amps imo

other than maybe budget tubes

[lone flame]

indeed

[warm scarab]

topping is being carried by the existence of asr right now

[vestal meadow]

And their insane output power meme game

Still better than ifi tho

[sleek lily]

tbh, its being carried by people not understanding measurements and trying to simplify them to the easiest to understand least relevant ones for their own sake

[warm scarab]

zendac and zen can im pretty happy with from ifi

and hip dac

thats about it tho

[vestal meadow]

Zen dac was pretty good

[warm scarab]

zen can is the cheapest class a amplifier to date i think

[vestal meadow]

But zen can was so meh for me

[warm scarab]

id be lying if i said i had an extensive experience with zen can

[lone flame]

im not a source memer

[warm scarab]

dacs are pretty meme

[lone flame]

i got ma A70S/A70 stack bcs of looks, the features and display lol

[vestal meadow]

Yeah i got bored of it and sold it for an aune

[warm scarab]

amps are a meme if you are doing budget stuff but like

if you are in the 500-600$ range its not inappropriate to spend some on an amp

especially for planars

[vestal meadow]

Planars do legit often sound different with nicer amount of power

[lone flame]

i have plenty of power

[gilded current]

all planar are bad

[vestal meadow]

Then I am powering my he6 off you

[warm scarab]

you take that back

[gilded current]

love autocorrect

[warm scarab]

i love mar s

[gilded current]

mars is ok

we move there some day

[warm scarab]

it has europa

coolest moon ever

[lone flame]

i like urAnus

[warm scarab]

)german joke)

[vestal meadow]

Stop looking at it please

[lone flame]

yes

[vestal meadow]

Great i derailed another conversation

[lone flame]

well yeah. Your name is ZeroTwo but you have Zenith or so as PfP

[vestal meadow]

I have no idea what I kept my name as zerotwo everywhere

[left verge]

the he400se's are also in budget
I previously made a list of headphones but it was pretty crap

[vestal meadow]

Even when I watched the anime I felt it was meh

And that was before I watched eva

[warm scarab]

same

i dont want to be shot but eva was also like

7/10

i liked the end movie tho

[vestal meadow]

They are pretty good but powering them is not a guarantee (but most decent mobo audio will work just fine with it)

[lone flame]

if eva was 7/10... how was adam?

[warm scarab]

adam?

[vestal meadow]

You are getting tasered then shot

[lone flame]

ye...
Eva's guy

[warm scarab]

no dude

[ocean pulsar]

its eve in english

[warm scarab]

evangelion

[lone flame]

never heard of Adam and Eva?

[warm scarab]

its eve

[lone flame]

Eve?

[warm scarab]

eva is from fucking wall-e dude

lmfao

[vestal meadow]

Lillith the bomb

[lone flame]

bro am i in Wall-E? xDDDD

[left verge]

Realtek ALC897
The board is like 2 years old
Am5 board

[vestal meadow]

Should be fine enough

[lone flame]

nono Eve is in wall-e

[warm scarab]

no thats eva

eve is from the bible

[lone flame]

get apple dongle tbh

[vestal meadow]

This conversation makes about as much sense as eva

[left verge]

Um why?

[vestal meadow]

Bad idea can't power he400 for shit

[lone flame]

not in germany

[warm scarab]

they kind of stopped trying to be coherent in the movie which peaked

[warm scarab]

why do you presume my brain defaults to german when we are having a discussion in english

[vestal meadow]

The remake makes so little sense it's insane

But i still love it

[warm scarab]

i was talking about end of evangelion

[ocean pulsar]

dongle isnt actually enough, its pretty meh maxed out
it works but just needs a bit more volts

[warm scarab]

not like the 1.0 stuff

[lone flame]

KA11

[vestal meadow]

Smh I was talking about 3.0 and 3.0+1

[warm scarab]

like the og movie where shinji becomes a sex offender

[ocean pulsar]

well the bible wasnt written in german was it 😛

[elder thistle]

overheating issues

[warm scarab]

and misato decides to molest a kid

[lone flame]

it was in latin

and was translated into german

[ocean pulsar]

lol wtf?

[vestal meadow]

The anime is one ending the end of eva is another ending

And remake is the best ending

Yeah I said it

Remake best ending

[lone flame]

ah nvm. idk a sht about religion xD

[warm scarab]

ive not watched the remakes honestly

[vestal meadow]

It's pretty nice

[warm scarab]

also it was a war crime to make the oc girl winner of the eternal asuka & rei duel

it was just not meant to be man

[vestal meadow]

I like it cuz I feel like shinji finally gets a good ending

[vestal meadow]

One is his mom/half sister

[warm scarab]

wait what

i think you spoiled me but i wont hold it against you

also when has that form of relationship stopped the japanese man

get real

[vestal meadow]

You said you watched

Both og and end of eva

[warm scarab]

yeah

oh is this about rei being like a clone or something

[vestal meadow]

And you didn't know rei is related to

[vestal meadow]

Shinjis mom becomes the soul of eva 1

[warm scarab]

it was a long time ago ok bro

[vestal meadow]

And gendo goes insane

And creates a copy of her and that's rei

[warm scarab]

"a" copy

dude made a 3d printer wife farm

[vestal meadow]

True

And even asuka isn't really real

[warm scarab]

what

[vestal meadow]

But that is remake stuff

[warm scarab]

then why are you telling me that 😭

[vestal meadow]

In og she is just an insane orphan

[sleek lily]

I still find it crazy that half the audio hobby is convinced that anything is just frequency response

[vestal meadow]

I forget what's what

[warm scarab]

lmao

[vestal meadow]

Eva rewires you to be

10% MORE INSANE

[sleek lily]

like even the measurement I just took of different gain levels showed variance but all 3 would be a flat asf frequency response through the same filter parameters

[lone flame]

still dont know how it really would sound like

[vestal meadow]

It not being flat will come up in its thd measurements

[sleek lily]

not in harmonic distortion

it is a form of distortion, but not harmonic

[vestal meadow]

True but in overall distortion it would still show up

[sleek lily]

its sort of the inverse of the issue my computers amp has with bad holdup time

[lone flame]

still... How would it sound like?

[vestal meadow]

Wait perhaps it has large output caps

To filter dc

[sleek lily]

in this case, the difference is not audible

[vestal meadow]

But with something that high end I highly double they would use a dc coupled circuit like that

[lone flame]

so who cares? xD

also in general. how would it sound like if its extreme

[sleek lily]

in the case of the computer amp it had poor holdup time and would drop dc voltage. That wouldnt show up in a frequency response measurement, but it would result in amplitude loss if you have a busy track with a pretty constant load

especially in busy parts of a track

[vestal meadow]

You will loose detail essentially

[lone flame]

so yeah. in the end you would see it in FR

[lone flame]

define "detail"

[sleek lily]

would alos likely result in a gradual loss in amplitude if holding a constant high frequency uuntil it reaches a steadystate

[vestal meadow]

Loosing part of the og signal

[warm scarab]

impulse response

[vestal meadow]

So you mean the circuit isn't stable ?

Bruh

[sleek lily]

for my computer amp its a different issue

[vestal meadow]

Does it like create ringing issues and stuff

[lone flame]

that is FR

[sleek lily]

for the ragnarok I really doubt id notice the difference

for my computer amp it has really bad holdup with dc load

[warm scarab]

you can't meaningfully read impulse response off of a frequency response without an uncompressed chart and conversion tools

its not what an FR graph is meant to display either

[sleek lily]

what im describing wouldnt necessarily show up there either

[lone flame]

im not talking about the AMPs measurements

[sleek lily]

meant to reply here

[warm scarab]

okay

[lone flame]

like even if the FR is linear but you have 100 Ohms output impedance

[warm scarab]

I mean regardless of what you are saying

impulse response is a part of what we define detail/clarity

[sleek lily]

many of the same concepts apply to headphones

[lone flame]

the headphone will be uhhh yeah sound different

[sleek lily]

or any speaker

[warm scarab]

even if its not the same factor you describe

[sleek lily]

the main difference is we swap from electrical variables to mechanical and electrical variables

[lone flame]

what does physically happen to the transducers movement

if your case happens in an audible range

[sleek lily]

it compresses air on one side and decompresses it on the other side

[lone flame]

so its swinging

like it normally does

[fallow vale]

hello yakucho

[lone flame]

moin

[lean grove]

hamburger spotted

[lone flame]

nah im from NRW

[sleek lily]

in my demonstration with the computer amp it would be linear still in frequency response, but in a constant sound load of bass it might slowly lose amplitude until in a steady state. In a song, it would lose amplitude in busier areas that act more like a constant load closer to a dc load for a period of time.

[warm scarab]

tf is nrw

[sleek lily]

this would impact the headphone by it also losing amplitude in these portions

[warm scarab]

north reinwand?

[lean grove]

is google down?

[warm scarab]

woah

I was actually correcgt

lmao

[lone flame]

Nordrhein Westfalen

[lone flame]

wtf is that

[warm scarab]

it was a wordplay on reinland

[lone flame]

or in english (the false way)
Northrhine-Westfalia

[sleek lily]

I cant wait for student aid to hit so I can get a good dual channel scope

im gonna ball out on yalls tax dollars

[vestal meadow]

If you are near a college or uni

[sleek lily]

mine too tbf

[vestal meadow]

Dumpster dive

I got a source measurement unit which costs like 10k usd

[sleek lily]

my friend got one like that, but my luck hasnt been as good lol

[vestal meadow]

No use for it but I got it

[warm scarab]

i knew this guy from sweden that just dumpster dived for iphones and airpods

it was insane

he had like 30 iphones

[ocean pulsar]

dumpster scopes are often real dang old

[vestal meadow]

Considering his current one is a single channel chespy

Anything is an improvement.

Tho considering I don't even have that I would even take a single channel cheapy rn lol

[lone flame]

ahh. so i looked it up. It would sound like a compressor

[sleek lily]

I would absolutely love to get something with a digital wireless probe

[lone flame]

it would lower specific frequencies

[fallow vale]

compression would refer to a digital issue

[sleek lily]

Where did you get this idea like at all? No, it wouldn't

[fallow vale]

wait so what is biooc memeing about

I need context

[sleek lily]

@fallow vale it's a computer amp that has a linear frequency response but clearly isn't an ideal output

[fallow vale]

I mean yeah

[lone flame]

not like compressor compressor.
like a dynamic EQ

[fallow vale]

cuz they have weird impedance

[ocean pulsar]

actually it might be close with a high pass filter

[fallow vale]

and are also noisy as fuck

[sleek lily]

It has a high and low pass filter in a similar range outside of audible range as most other amps

It just has bad holdup due to the power supply side dropping voltage for its amp

[ocean pulsar]

many amps dont actually have a high pass filter and are dc coupled
disadvantage is the clicking that you get sometimes

[ocean pulsar]

wdym holdup?
it doesnt take much if any power for the voltage level to remain the same, where power is applied is when you change voltage level, particularly if you do it fast

[sleek lily]

Most Amps will aim to act more like a band pass with a bw from 20-25khz roughly

[ocean pulsar]

the audiophile stuff tends to be dc coupled

which means down to 0hz

[vestal meadow]

Na

[sleek lily]

In the audio space yes

[ocean pulsar]

apple dong, 31993, all my gear really except for my focusrite interface are dc coupled

[vestal meadow]

If they have an analog low and high pass filter

It would be like 3hz to 70+khz

Not because you can hear it or something but to maintain linearity

[sleek lily]

Linearity should depends more on the q factor. Depending on the RLC behavior at the output you'll form a filter, but you don't need to exceed the 25khz range much to get a flat response if you aim for a sharp dropoff

[ocean pulsar]

half of max sample rate is where youd put the lpf at the highest and 22khz would be the lowest for 44.1k sample rate

[vestal meadow]

I mean you have a more ideal low pass filter yeah

But most circuits i have seen use an active low pass filter (but just a first order) or a passive filter

Either of which will need more than 20+ to not get a drop off before 20khz

[fallow vale]

hi jackson

[elder thistle]

greetangs

[sleek lily]

That's just be a band pass. You'd design the output as a high bandwidth band pass with as massive of a q factor as possible.

You'll have an inductive element to drop amplitude in the low region and capacitive for the high region.

[verbal fog]

hh music sounds so good going back to a regular amp and headphones after being stuck on earbuds and a headphonbe jack for so long

that reminds me i need to steal my bfs dac for science

[warm scarab]

what is hh music

[verbal fog]

just anything

at all

i havent been settled properly in like a week and a half and the time before then i was too stressed to listen to music

but now im back and i found so many faults in my cheap shitty earbuds while using them

but now im back and everything sounds perfect and uh better than it couldve ever been before

relapse by vierre cloud i havent listened to in years i just realized but the sub bass is also insane

i havent heard it in years i forgot about it it was good,,

the top one though the bottom one has noticeably less but also im pretty eqd

[terse river]

hey guys

i have a denon x2700h

it has a headphone jack from what i can see

would it be a good quality amp for like

6xxs?

[lean grove]

Should be fine, but it's probably nothing special

[terse river]

should i hear a big difference if i get like a fiio k11 or some other amp?

[lean grove]

Maybe. Depends on how good of a listener you are.

[ionic storm]

driver mod of audio

[lean grove]

Cracker bargle

[ionic storm]

purple burglar alarm

[lean grove]

https://tenor.com/view/styropyro-car-batteries-battery-throw-gif-10623617548064399155

[ionic storm]

atleast he has his own pond

[warm scarab]

i dont think he owns the pond

[left verge]

I didn't realize how small the drivers are

[lean grove]

thats average for a dynamic

[frosty ocean]

When sorting by "Album", is there typically any sort of safety measure to distinguish between two different artists' "Greatest Hits" album in the unfortunate event that they both literally named their album "Greatest Hits"? Also, Alien Antfarm

[red quest]

Unsure if i measured it right, but if i did, this 3" speaker is really good

[lone flame]

well. Driver size doesn't really matter for headphones

[zenith pawn]

🤕

[glad creek]

I thought I was looking at a vacuum cleaner my brain is totally cooked

[hidden moon]

I can assure you that's a mini Hi-Fi system.

[glad creek]

I saw that lmao

[hidden moon]

Was just listening to this new CD album I got.

[glad creek]

I'd love to buy CDs too but it's way too expensive sadly

Also I'd need a cd player lmao

[hidden moon]

I listen to all my music on CD.

Sound quality is amazing!

[zenith pawn]

lmfao I see it

[glad creek]

You can have great sound quality digitally too, it's usually just ripped losslessly from CDs anyway

But yeah, there is some sort of "aura" / mood using physical CDs, though at this point if it's for the mood I probably should just go with vinyles

[zenith pawn]

one of those auto emptying bases

I love CDs

[glad creek]

my brand new cd player

[hidden moon]

I have a big collection.

[glad creek]

You have to buy a shelve for that

[hidden moon]

I will.

[zenith pawn]

oh I should send a picture of my dad's collection

I think there's about 260 albums total

[hidden moon]

Wait...
I have to wonder if a CD sounds better in a computer, or a dedicated CD player.

[zenith pawn]

it just depends on the quality of DAC and amp in your computer vs CD player

[glad creek]

The CD player itself will be the same "quality" soundwise, however the DAC/amp part may be better or worse depending on the computer/cd player

Also I guess there is a case to be made about good quality cd player that may be less likely to scratch CDs with time ..? But that's just for longevity anyways, and CD don't last forever too even without using them so eh

[hidden moon]

My motherboard is an Asus Prime H510-M. Does that have a good DAC?

[zenith pawn]

usually built in motherboard audio sucks

[glad creek]

no but your cd player doesn't have a good dac anyway so don't worry about that

[zenith pawn]

try it and see if it sounds better or worse

[warm scarab]

cool air fryer, this is audio tech though

[hidden moon]

I feel like I'm being bullied now.

[glad creek]

Lmao

[terse river]

any of these better than 6xx?

[buoyant vale]

580

[lone flame]

prob not really worth if u already have HD6xx

also HD565, 545, 535 does not have the same chassis

[warm scarab]

hd580 potentially

[unique wind]

nah

[sleek lily]

depends on what youre looking for

for most tracks id say the 545 family is the best rounded, but 580 is an amazing headphone for vocalist music

so depending on what youre looking for either of those could be better

[terse river]

i listen to classical, so im looking for good sound on all ranges

[sleek lily]

660s2 is going to be more bassy so it could easily fit a tonal goal better if you want more bass

[sleek lily]

for instrumental classical I would personally take the 545 family, but if its more like orchestral classic the 580 imo would be best

545,565, and 535 afaik are the same besides different chassis

565 is the best looking of that family, but 545 are much more common to find cheap

[left verge]

Well, behind the cover its even worse

[terse river]

And how would 6xx do on orchestral or instrumental classical?

And would the advantages of a 580 or 545 be erased if I used an AVR as my headphone amp?

[lean grove]

You don't need to worry about the amp too much.

I think you'll probably be happy with any of the choices you've presented. And if you're not then you can take a note of what you didn't like and return them and get a much better idea of what you want.

Just send it and buy the 6xx.

[terse river]

Alright then

[glad creek]

If you don't like any of those you should not take any other one on the list

[terse river]

alright

forgive me if im asking a lot of questions before, i dont think ive ever even worn a nice headset before so...

[sleek lily]

nah, 5x5 series is like a whole different category of sound from the same chassis. I would say its worth getting that as a daily driver and like a 580 as a more vocal or relaxation focused set

[lean grove]

Yeah I understand. It's pretty common for people to stress out about their first big audio purchases.

But the reality is that audiophiles (as will any other hobbyist) can be pretty picky and make small differences seem bigger than they really are.

Most of the headphones that audiophiles consider to be mediocre are still better than most things non-audiophiles wind up buying.

[left verge]

I've been looking at the Fiio FT1s pricing, and i'm wondering:
For open box, and basically brand new, is it worth it for $124-135usd without tax

[lone flame]

Yes

[lone flame]

Imo it's worth

[steel escarp]

the FT1 will vary wildly depending on your ears

hope they sound good for you at least, they didn't for me

[elder thistle]

what are you doing

[terse river]

planning on buying a headset

[elder thistle]

also yes I'm not a big fan of the ft1

massively overhyped as is usual for any measurement-y hype train

[elder thistle]

that isnt going to yeild an answer

because you haven't really asked a question

there is no "better", there definitely isn't better in the absence of price and country either

[terse river]

am in us

[elder thistle]

better looks? which feels "better? earpads could be soft, thick, breathable and the headband could be maade of nails

[terse river]

better audio

[elder thistle]

how do you define better audio

we can't define it for you

[terse river]

uhh

idk

i do know that some headsets are objectively better than others

[elder thistle]

that isnt true