virtual-reality

[rustic garnet]

there is no index 2 it doesn't exist!!!! Stop shopping hypotheticals

real

maybe literally

[haughty thistle]

Unless Valve announces a new VR headset, it just doesn't exist. Period. People need to stop dreaming up $hit. Same thing with how "Pimax can be good if you just give them time" or "Somnium will 100% beat the $hit out of Varjo because FOV". It ain't true...

[weak bluff]

Too much copium for index 2

People dream too much for a product that does not exist some sign of copium have happened included but not limited to:

• A new device pop up rumour that people thought it was Valve Deckard. It was just Steam Deck OLED. https://hothardware.com/news/valve-receives-radio-certification-for-wireless-hardware-in-south-korea
• Reference to SteamVR wireless that people though Deckard is a standalone but no its just wireless Steam Link.
• A new VR icon that people though it was deckard but nah.

Don't wait for a product based on rumours especially from Valve knowing their history. You will start hailing copium like those. All of those rumours about Index 2 or deackard whatever turned out wrong or something else.

[rustic garnet]

Honestly yeah i think valve has had their hands full with anything steam deck for the last long while, they may have been prototyping vr technologies on the side in the meantime but i think actual product development for a new headset would start like .. Now

Which would put the actual launch something like three years away lol

[raw grail]

Well as i said if the index comes out i want it instead of the quest 3

as i don't think it will be good as the new index

If nothing shows up about the index i will get the Varjo or the Bigscreen Beyond

i still have months to decide wich one to go for

[weak bluff]

Yep either is a good choice

If you favour the excellent comfort, OLED deep blacks and colourful display and dont mind not sharing to others (it is customized only for you), the mediocre FOV (its actually better than Rift S so it will only be upgrade for you) then Bigscreen Beyond is for you.

If you want high quality fidelity with eye tracking and great FOV and dont mind not having OLED, fine with heavy weight then go Varjo Aero

Neither will disappoint you even if Valve release a headset it wont make either of those headset bad.

If you want to easily upgrade in the future, invest in Base Station. If there is any new PCVR headset or controller manufacturer, chances are they will use base stations.

Or use standalone headset for ease of use but I personally go the former when both is an option.

[rustic garnet]

There is no new index !!!! stop doing this omg

[raw grail]

stop whining

I will will stick that a new one is coming

[rustic garnet]

Im just saying if you want a headset upgrade now you only have the quest 3, the beyond, or the varjo to choose from

[raw grail]

That is true does base stations easily break?
if not i could find cheaper ones that are used

[raw grail]

I can wait a year for the new index i don't mind

[rustic garnet]

besides you haven't mentioned any budget or feature preferences at all

[weak bluff]

Well...

Base station is as durable as a hard drive

[raw grail]

I don't have a budget realy
i just planned to save until the new headset arrive

[rustic garnet]

They have moving parts but they're basically hard drive motors which are quite reliable

[weak bluff]

Base station uses sensitive component same tech as hard drive so if you handle it like hard drive it should last about as long

Make use of phone app that helps turn off base station when unused

Base station 1.0 have more moving part than Base station 2.0 so in theory the 2.0 should last longer but reportedly 1.0 despite so is quite durable

Handle those base station with care like a hard drive. Managing power will keep it last longer.

[raw grail]

So expensive with basestations lol
also scary to buy used ones

[weak bluff]

If you want cheap base station buy used HTC vive kit that comes with them.

There are things you can do that can prolong them like using phone app to turn off when dont use them.

Base station 1.0 surprisingly last pretty long some people manage to use them for years and years

[raw grail]

I see i see

[weak bluff]

Unless you are in earthquake prone area it should last years.

[raw grail]

It's still is alot of money for just 1 game lol
I will try and see if i can find cheap used ones

[rustic garnet]

?

Which game

[weak bluff]

Lol

[raw grail]

VRChat all the way

The only vr game i play

[weak bluff]

The most expensive free game

[raw grail]

yep 😦 even ordered fbt

[rustic garnet]

I never really got into it

[weak bluff]

My 95% 2023 playtime

[rustic garnet]

i even tried fullbody with qr tags and my phone which was really awesome

[raw grail]

Fbt is amazing

[rustic garnet]

but idk it doesn't scratch any kind of itch for me

[raw grail]

But would be better if i had a better headset

where you can't see pixels..

[weak bluff]

I have fbt but only wear 5% of the time because too lazy lol

[rustic garnet]

bring back the kinect

or like a new and improved version

considering recent leaps in machine vision i think it could actually work pretty well today

[raw grail]

I had a 360 kinect it was quite fun

[weak bluff]

I say Quest 2 resolution and above is enough to not see pixels so 1920p

[rustic garnet]

eh

[weak bluff]

But while you can't see pixels anymore its not perfect vision

[rustic garnet]

considering i can see pixels on a 1080 monitor sitting at arms length

when it's stretched across your entire fov

[weak bluff]

Because quest 2 is not sharp enough for 20/20

[rustic garnet]

you can absolutely see the pixels there

(also wth is a butterscotch)

[weak bluff]

Actually even this is misleading the 20/20 butterscotch is not perfect vision really for reason i forgot

There are currently no headset with 20/20 vision

But there are headset with virtually unnoticeable screen door effect

[rustic garnet]

Sde is separate from resolution though

[rustic garnet]

Ig they're legible but not really sharp

barley legible honestly

is that a P or an F or a T

[lethal willow]

Which one of these is the best option

[rustic garnet]

They all have different strengths

[little plinth]

I wonder what happens if you combine FG and reprojection

[haughty thistle]

I still feel like Butterscotch is kinda marketing BS. It's only 50ppd, which Meta themselves (when their XR research stuff was still Oculus branded) said wasn't quite 20/20 vision. Back then they said 20/20 vision is somewhere between 60 and 120ppd...

[little plinth]

basically 20/20

i think my eyes with corrective lenses isn't even 20/20

[pale orbit]

the big thing with the butterscotch prototype is the varifocal lenses, that said 50 ppd is still quite good

I think the varjo pcvr headsets have slightly higher ppd but not by much (apparently 70 ppd in the center)

[rustic garnet]

wasn't half dome the varifocal one?

[pale orbit]

that had them as well iirc

the thing with those is they are mechanical in design and that's just a hell of a lot more failure points even if they get them working well

[rustic garnet]

and doesn't even allow the scene to have actual depth of field

But should solve the vergeance/accomodation conflict with eye tracking

[pale orbit]

like clockwork mechanical watch levels of complexity/size

delicate/expensive and not something you'd want in a mass marketed "toy" that could be bumped/dropped by accident

[rustic garnet]

That's literally just not true

no more complex than an ipd slider

probably LESS complex considering both lens assemblies move in unison instead of opposing directions

[pale orbit]

they are powered gears by the nature of the application in a headset make them tiny, they'll be moving in and out constantly during use. it's another large failure point. we'll see if they ever come to market but I can see lots of people complaining when things go wrong and the lenses stop working correctly. they can't even get the controllers to behave properly still.

half dome 3 they tried going to a non mechanical design for that very reason, but I guess that didn't work out because they have gone back to mechanical.

https://www.uploadvr.com/meta-butterscotch-varifocal-prototype-retinal-hands-on/

you can see the motors going back and forth in the gif in this article

I'm sure they are still working on the tech in half dome 3, perhaps they have a 4 in the lab already, but it will be years before we see anything like that on the market and when we do it will be in a pro class headset first

[weak bluff]

I dont believe such solution would be practical its way too many moving parts

Probably cheaper and more durable to make it software adjusted

[weak bluff]

Preference. Each have different strength.

[little plinth]

And budget

BB is 2x Q3 price and varjo is 2x BB price

[weak bluff]

I don't buy Quest 3 because it comes with features I don't need.

All I want is VR upgrade not MR.

[little plinth]

Ever since i tried wireless I don't think i can deal with wires ever again

[weak bluff]

Which is what the supposely runoured Quest 3 lite suppose to be

[weak bluff]

Agree. Regret being wired by Rift S now.

I once stepped on wire and it stopped working for a moment

I rather strap power bank on back it doubles as weight balancing

[gloomy crater]

My first ever headset was wireless. Upgraded to a wired headset, never went back. Wireless was fun, but you lose a lot by being wireless. I'd love to go wireless again, there are just too many downsides to going fully wireless that are currently hard to overlook.

[weak bluff]

i did that too

but then i realised i traded bad encoding with always noticable screendoor effect

so now im stuck at a limbo

Less screendoor, blurry screendoor, no blurry
Quest 2 ------------------------------------- Rift S

[little plinth]

Qpro, pico 4, Q3
even less screendoor without shit blur

[weak bluff]

but well they are priced out of range for me

and Quest 2 price drop keep shocking me

[little plinth]

i wonder why they keep dropping it

it already sells like hotcake without the drop

[weak bluff]

now i really want the whatever quest 3 lite is rumoured

[little plinth]

meh

still fresnel

and the QLite $200 rumored msrp is meaningless

coming with no controller

[weak bluff]

hey

i used fresnel entire life

i can get used to it

[balmy inlet]

I'm thinking about buying my very first VR headset. the only ones i can afford are either meta quest 3 or psvr2. which one would u recommend? do yall think i should wait, just in case psvr2 becomes compatible with pc (if ever) or at least psvr exclusive titles comes to pc?

[weak bluff]

PSVR coming to PC is much less likely and even if PCVR2 hack works for PC you will need to invest more into expensive adapter for it to work

since it is your first time in VR, you wont have base to compare so there are variants of headsets for you

how good is your PC?

[balmy inlet]

got a 12900k + 3080 10g + 32gb 3600

[weak bluff]

quest 3 is fine

[carmine kestrel]

What games are you thinking of playing ?

[rustic garnet]

Don't buy a psvr2 unless you have a ps5

at least not yet

[little plinth]

People already wary of buying WMR hmd due to deprecation and yet still wants a PSVR2 because of the possibilty of a flimsy hack that can be deprecated and break faster than a google product

is PSVR2 really that much better than something like q3

not to mention fresnel

a lot of the features also won't work on PC like DFR

[weak bluff]

if you like to compare PSVR2 and Quest 3 there are strength and weaknesses that one beats the other and vice versa

PSVR2 have eye tracking, great controllers and OLED as one of strength but it has halo headband and is wired.
Quest 3 have the largest library of standalone games, can be played wirelessly and good MR experience. However, there will be worse controller, compression penalty on PCVR and default strap is uncomfortable.

[little plinth]

the plus you mentioned is if you hook it up on the PS5

[weak bluff]

well lets be fair

PSVR2 is not PC compatible

so its a paperweight without PS5

[little plinth]

well we're talking in this case for PCVR

since that guy wants one

for the possibility to be one

[weak bluff]

i wont buy something not confirmed to work for PC

[little plinth]

which is what i'm saying here

the amount of copium is larger than valve deckard

[weak bluff]

the guy who hack PSVR2 can just give up and he does not have to compensate anything

btw there is currently a roadblock in dev that prevent Nvidia GPU from working on PSVR2 compatibility that cannot be fixed without Nvidia involving

so what are the chance nvidia will care fixing this issue

turns out Nvidia have ETA

[haughty thistle]

I think with the Nvidia cards he's referring to the VirtualLink port on the 2000-Series GPUs. DSC works just fine on their cards, just that the VL-Ports don't work quite right, so even with a 2000-Series card you'd need a VL-Adapter box (which is a requirement for 3000- and 4000-Series cards anyways)

[devout trail]

No it’s not from the VL port on the 2000 series cards. The Nvidia driver handles DSC and Resolutions a bit differently than AMD does and doesn’t follow the actual standard like AMD. He posted a big thing about the res of Nvidias driver using their own method to achieve the same resolution under DSC. Nvidia would have to change this at the driver level to make them work as AMD does.

Plus he’s got some issues with the DP-AUX boards being defective too so even the first set some were waiting to purchase got some bad news that day 😦

[weak bluff]

The boards are never meant to be made in mass so it's not the goal anyways

[devout trail]

Yeah was hoping there’d be some software fix for the DP AUX issues he’s had. But even so for the demand he’s deemed it worth his time to get them manufactured so I’m still enticed to see it finished.

Then just the couple odd things left to add/fix in the driver and it’ll be ready to go. Just that big thing with Nvidia’s driver holding back many users.

[weak bluff]

there is no software fix for something hardware level

and closed software

[devout trail]

So far as we know. The developer of the driver used to think it was severely locked down then discovered the DSC issue that’s purely software.

So yeah at this point until we get that rework on the WHQL windows drivers theres well over half of the demand right there too.

And the DP AUX port itself is a software rework on a regular USB standard. Just apparently not one anyone wanted to use anymore lol

I would’ve liked to see cards with multiple C ports on them. Could made some interesting changes to some setups too.

[hallow cliff]

https://youtu.be/NE10VdZERpQ?si=OkeGwcDRGvaup5mn

man bigscreen is such a cool company for making this video

its so refreshing to see a company actively support modding

[pastel furnace]

How much would vr demolish an Intel UHD Graphics 770?

[haughty thistle]

It would more likely demoslish your stomach. Have fun with vomiting and with the headache (if you can even get it to work)

[pastel furnace]

Sounds amazing!

I mean that doesn't sound too different compared to playing with an RX 560

[lethal willow]

ima probably gonna be using them for a lot of generale vr

so what would be the best all rounder

[warm stirrup]

With UHD 630, the forest vr would get 10 fps and low of 4 fps

Not sure how much of a difference UHD 770 is from 630

[lethal willow]

also a lot of dcs

[weak bluff]

in that case Varjo Aero or Quest 3 will be what I recommend

when you fly DCS you usually sit and having weight balancing is best for comfort and some weight will make it feel like helmet

Quest 3 is a good budget high end headset and combine Quest Link and OculusKiller should be optimal

[little plinth]

but steamlink is a thing

or VD

[weak bluff]

yeah but like

you are sitting

you wont mind cable while sitting right

[little plinth]

you can do cable with VD using reverse tether

[weak bluff]

or that

[little plinth]

it's more on the fact that link isn't great

rather than cable/wireless

[weak bluff]

luckily fast moving game like plane flying is less problematic with compression and you only need fixed foveated rendering and encoding

[balmy inlet]

i do own a ps5 but for some reason, none of its "exclusives" have managed to make me keep playing on it for long unlike from my ps4s. i got spiderman 2 and even that game hasnt inspired me to keep playing it as well as the first game did.

i just wanted to play horizon call of the mountain cuz it looked amazing and the tech for psvr2 seems great. but i just cant stand its exclusivity. i was wondering if it'll ever come to pc, whether its headset or just the ps vr titles.

[weak bluff]

if by Sony logic chances are it will never come to PC

why?

because in PCVR, you cannot get those awesome haptics that Sony wants to use as selling point

if Sony want to release on PC it will have to accomodate as many headset as possible which will mean not including some of its flagship features

[balmy inlet]

they have ported exclusive first party titles, despite years of keeping them exclusive. even after a couple years they have announced games on pc now, like fobidden west. so i hoped psvr games could come to pc as well

[weak bluff]

and you know how Sony does not even let you use Dualshock 4 on PS5 to run PS5 games because of lack of haptics

[balmy inlet]

it'll help promote their products and headset too. i think being exclusive to ps5 only will kill its interest fast. but idk the actual sales so i can't back that thought.

[weak bluff]

i think they rather just not make it in first place than releasing it half baked

Sony logic

[balmy inlet]

that sucks. cuz their psvr2 seems like a bang for your buck headset. i considered pico 4 but it's nowhere to be found in US

[weak bluff]

the horizon call is more like

tech demo for PSVR2

stuff like hard feedback when pulling strings and eye tracking controlled menu

[balmy inlet]

it looked fun but idk

i hope in the future they'll reconsider.

[weak bluff]

its not meant to sell games its meant to show full capability for PSVR2 and inspire other dev to make it too

so no they dont care if game sell poorly

[balmy inlet]

can i borrow ur psvr2?

[weak bluff]

its the same with Half Life Alyx

i dont have PSVR2

AAA games usually are made for tech demo only indie try to make money

[balmy inlet]

which vr headset do u own?

[weak bluff]

Rift S

[balmy inlet]

i ended up getting quest 3 btw

how are u enjoying it so far?

havent owned a vr headset ever

[weak bluff]

terrible

because i came from Quest 2

[balmy inlet]

ahh sorry to hear that

[weak bluff]

screendoor effect is terrible and the halo headband is uncomfortable

[weak bluff]

i think that explains itself

because its such a value headset they need to compensate something to pay off

like selling PS5 games

if it runs PC then they cannot sell PS5 games

[balmy inlet]

then what was the logic behind allowing exclusive ps games onto pc? cuz now i see no reason to buy more ps5 games if it'll just come to pc anyway. or even think about upgrading any more ps consoles

[weak bluff]

i dont see how God of War be important for controller compatibility and its a PS4 compatible game anyways

there is a lot of feature lost if horizon is ported to PC than god of war or rachet and clank ported to PC

unless PSVR2 haptics and eye tracking is standard in PCVR i dont see it happening

Its all speculation. It makes sense from the moment PSVR is not compatible with PCVR at all because Sony just does not care.

[haughty thistle]

Not with the Quest. Quest OS has a complete from scratch driver package which doesn't include any drivers for USB-LAN adapters or Android VPN support. As a result neither reverse tethering, nor USB-C LAN adapters work on the Quest...

[weak bluff]

just stick with link then

[little plinth]

One of the few drawbacks

When i use immersed with my laptop away from home i use reverse tether on my pico

I mean I can't bring a router everywhere

i've been considering to buy Q3

but i'm already in too deep in my pico lel

buying another lense insert pack, facial interface not to mention quest 3 needing a replacement strap

that's at least extra 150

[rustic garnet]

eh i wouldn't agree

[eternal yacht]

is virtual desktop worth it?

[little plinth]

definitely

-snapdragon upscaler
-VDXR runtime
-Passthrough
-Better spacewarp
-Way better desktop interaction

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/9XqcSdI_4z8

[little plinth]

is san andreas even in unreal engine??

[pale orbit]

those bad remakes from 2021 are

[weak bluff]

https://mixed-news.com/en/shiftall-meganex-superlight-announcement/

[haughty thistle]

If it's gonna be anywhere near the original MeganeX price, it's gonna be DOA.
It's using panels pretty similar to that of the BSB with similar optics. They either have to pricematch the Bigscreen or offer some sort of killer feature, and 120Hz is not a killer feature worth 700$ more...

[little plinth]

i usually hate spacewarp but

when on MSFS, just landed on baltimore, airport crowded, FPS die

going from 45 fps to "90"

my eyes appreciates it

cpu bottlenecked

so that's fun

[rustic garnet]

yay yet another headset that will never see the light of day

[weak bluff]

also funny with that panel how are they going to deal with unable to top Nvidia GPUs that only support DisplayPort 1.4 lol

DP1.4 top is 3840 x 2160 @ 120 Hz and this headset has 2,560 × 2,560 PER EYE @ 120hz

[rustic garnet]

two hdmi cables ez

[weak bluff]

lol that would be really funny

because no modern AMD GPU have 2 HDMI

[rustic garnet]

i mean... If it works

[rustic garnet]

meh two display cables is what i meant

[little plinth]

Compression:

[weak bluff]

repeating BB mistake

RTX 4090 cant take advantage is funny

[little plinth]

The market for these niche super high end headsets seems really oversaturated

Varjo, pimax, bigscreen, now them

Despite having the tiniest userbase

[rustic garnet]

idk what else new manufacturers would really go for ..

[weak bluff]

They don't need many customer since they sell at high profit margin

[rustic garnet]

The quests have really destroyed the low-mid market

i miss the time when stuff like wmr was viable

and companies tried to make a whole pcvr kit for real consumers

[little plinth]

WMR failed thanks to Microsoft making it shit

Add the requirement of needs a vr capable pc

Compounding effects of failure

[rustic garnet]

the floor is made of floor

or like wdym

[little plinth]

Wrong reply

Meh don't wanna fix it

On top of wmr software being shit, needing a vr capable pc, and needing an expensive headset, makes wmr as a platform a downspiral of doom

Can't beat them quests

[rustic garnet]

oh yeah as opposed to a standalone headset

i was like ..ofc pcvr needs a vr pc

Im just saying those things started at like 200 bucks

[weak bluff]

If you want Quest 2 but dont want standalone and compression the there you go

Check out DPVR E4

[rustic garnet]

You don't see anyone attempting that anymore

[little plinth]

No reason to get dpvr

Pico 4 is better in everyway

The dp connection can't help it enough

or shell a bit more for q3

[weak bluff]

Fun fact there was an internal debate in (back then) Oculus on whether they should focus on PCVR or standalone and Standalone won

[haughty thistle]

Ever heard of our lord and saviour that is "DSC"?

[weak bluff]

Will it be enough

[little plinth]

https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=vjdQDYutb&h2=1qnvNfJKq

the specs side by side

the dpvr just gets... demolished

let alone comparing it to Q3

[haughty thistle]

The Varjo Aero has an even higher resolution (granted at "only" 90Hz) and uses only 2 DP 1.4 lanes, not even the full 4 lanes...
And the Varjo works on Nvidia GPUs only mind you

[little plinth]

Fresnel, single-LCD, only 1832x1920

95 deg hfov

DP can't save it

[weak bluff]

Huh so there is a way to fit high res

What is the catch

[rustic garnet]

color gets compressed

[haughty thistle]

Yes, using higher DSC factors. Problem is, those are kinda wonky if not outright non-functional on AMD cards

[weak bluff]

Expensive compression hardware?

[haughty thistle]

It's build into the GPU and completely seamless to the user. That's how we got high res high refreshrate monitors too. They all use DSC

How else do you think does the Samsung Odyssey G9 OLED achieve 5120x1440 @240Hz?

[little plinth]

i don't think any gpu can actually run varjo full res at a hypothetical 120 anyway DSC aside

[weak bluff]

If color is compressed does that mean HDR will be sacrificed

[little plinth]

unless you sacrifice graphics settings

[rustic garnet]

It's spatially compressed

they encode basically two pixels as one

but only the color part

which our eyes are worse at discerning than brightness

[haughty thistle]

Not really? My Alienware AW3423DW only supports it's 3440x1440@144Hz 10bpc using DSC...

[rustic garnet]

well

it's a trade off

you can only pipe so much data and you can then make the choice to put it towards higher range or higher resolution

[haughty thistle]

Not quite right either. You're thinking of 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. DSC is more like super low latency video compression, but only for the chroma signal. 90% of the time the signal at the end remains untouched, 9% of the time there are minor artifacts that probably aren't visible to the human eye (it's visually lossless unlike say h.265), and only 1% of the time there are artifacts, but you need a side-by-side with an uncompressed one to spot the difference

[rustic garnet]

oops

Wait how is dp encoded

lightness hue chroma?

[haughty thistle]

Chroma subsampling does indeed discard chromatic information, DSC does not (unless it absolutely has to)

[rustic garnet]

wait what

so what's the downside of dsc then

for all this time i was thinking about chroma subsampling

[haughty thistle]

I'm honestly not sure. Pretty sure it's like every other video signal before it. The inherentence is like this: DVI -> HDMI -> DP; DVI-D used YUV signalling to be as compatible with it's analog brother DVI-A, which was just VGA in a different connector...

[rustic garnet]

and hdmi is just dvi-d in a different connector

eh maybe not

[haughty thistle]

YUV is Lumanance and then a Red and Blue differential signal from Luminance. Tho iirc you can set the signalling on HDMI and DP to be RGB as well. No idea how DSC packs the signal...

[weak bluff]

So basically AMD is always screwed by bad DSC

Can it be software fixed?

[haughty thistle]

Used to be, then they changed a bunch of stuff and actually started using more of the signal wires in HDMI 1.2..? Forgot when, but HDMI has barely anything to do with DVI these days...

[rustic garnet]

still useable with a passive adapter though

[haughty thistle]

DSC is usually implemented in hardware to achieve the low latency. Ig if AMD for whatever reason is using FPGA logic for their DSC circutry then yeah, but I doubt they'd use FPGA for fixed function hardware...

[rustic garnet]

or i mean maybe ot just falls back on an old hdmi version then

[rustic garnet]

that would be so unnecessarily expensive

[haughty thistle]

HDMI falls back with these passive adapters. Same with DP, it has native support for both DVI-D and HDMI built in 😄

[weak bluff]

Since AMD supports DisplayPort 2.0 can manufacturers just give either 1.4 DSC or DP 2.0 interchangeable support?

[rustic garnet]

in theory i guess? but that would require a faster dp reciever than just having dsc

[haughty thistle]

I guess that's possible DSC is only part of the DP standard starting with DP1.4, so anything using DSC is technically considered DP1.4 (which is the only notable change between 1.4 and 1.3 btw), so what is usually referred to as DP1.4 is actually the HBR3 signalling introduced with DP1.3. You can ofc pair HBR2 signalling (DP1.2) with DSC to make a hybrid (example being the Vive Pro 2), but I'm not sure you can mix and match signalling. It should be doable, one of my monitors has an explicit toggle for DP1.1/1.2 support, but just not sure if that switching can be done automatically so...

[rustic garnet]

doesn't have to be automatic

i figure anyone competent enough with computers to set up a whole pcvr system would be able to toggle a switch

or idk maybe you could in the driver have it detect the display connection and over usb tell the headset to toggle

[haughty thistle]

Why do I suddenly have to think of those steering wheels with a physical switch on them for PC/Xbox and PS4/PS3 support xD

[haughty thistle]

I guess that would be the most sensible way of doing it, yeah...

[rustic garnet]

im by no means an electrical or software engineer though

[pale orbit]

https://vxtwitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1744538079686169025

[weak bluff]

Im sorry what are they trying to do there

[haughty thistle]

Trying to rip off the Lynx R1 if I had to guess, but they're seemingly trying to position this more as a Quest Pro/AVP competitor...

[weak bluff]

the controller is weird tho

[weak bluff]

prototype look of headset https://vxtwitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1744296116676415946?s=20

ignore the noise surpressor

[rapid otter]

Got a 4080 finally I'm going to be able to fully enjoy VR

Got any new games to recommend?

[weak bluff]

I don't want to be responsible for you to become uuuuuuuuh femboy furry stocking something something so just enjoy job simulator

you can play high quality game but it will make any other game bad

[rapid otter]

I want good games lol

[rapid otter]

Humm vrchat

[weak bluff]

ok then

wait

[rapid otter]

On kinda recent ones

[weak bluff]

Complex 7 by Fins

[rapid otter]

Have been playing old games mostly for the last Few mou

[weak bluff]

Treasure Heist by Fins

What a Legend by @Legends

Mine Heist by Fins (motion suckness warning)

Norah's AWAKENING by TrueAquaPsych (hard puzzle)

[rapid otter]

But that's VR chat room?

[weak bluff]

that is just VRChat

THE CORRIDOR VR by SylviaCrisp

[rapid otter]

I don't play vrc

[weak bluff]

ok i though you wanted VRChat

i say those worlds rivals real games

[rapid otter]

I may have been unclear

Sorry

[weak bluff]

if you do play vrchat you can play without any social part just play all in private

[rapid otter]

Interesting

I'll look at it

[weak bluff]

just never go any public instance

and you will never see other people

[rapid otter]

Aight

It's just minigames or they actually have a story ?

[weak bluff]

some of them are full blown hours long

Pop! Escape lasts 2-4 hours

[rapid otter]

In vrchat

[weak bluff]

yes

[rapid otter]

Crazy

[weak bluff]

some 30 min

but because its a game inside game it has to improvise

[rapid otter]

The main game I'm looking forward to is blade and soecey

[weak bluff]

yes that game is good

[rapid otter]

Since they updated last year it has been unplayable

[weak bluff]

it will make you want to have full body and bigger space

[rapid otter]

Also want to try bonelad

Waited for a new GPU

But I'm worried I'll be deceived

I live BW

[gloomy crater]

bonelab = big suck

If you're only gonna treat it like Gmod but for VR, then that's fine, because that's exactly how the game should be treated. But if you buy bonelab expecting to have a comparable experience to boneworks out of the box, you'll be disappointed. $10 extra for less than half of the included content, all because they think it's soooooo valuable that you can mod bonelab easier (they also said they'd be doing consistent updates and pushing modding efforts in the game and then never actually did that)

[rapid otter]

A lot of mods look great

I have the feel its more childish and polished instead of the raw boneworks

Idk how to put words on it

Boneworks is very raw

[real pasture]

i regret nothing

[icy quartz]

🤨

[gloomy crater]

Yeah that's a very good way to put it. Like portal 1 vs. portal 2

Both are good games, but the design direction and feel are very different

It sucks that a lot of the existing stuff I didn't like about boneworks carries over into bonelab, like randomly cutting your movement speed for no reason, but the one good change I honestly give them props for is that in bonelab, you can grip ANYTHING. No more reaching out to pick up a piece of glass or something and finding that it doesn't have the gripping functionality attached to it. In bonelab, you can pick up or climb pretty much everything, and that's dope.

[dull terrace]

I'm in the market for a VR headset

I have a laptop with rtx 3070

Should I go meta quest 2 or 3?

Main game I play is war thunder

[weak bluff]

either will be great

if it is your first time, a Quest 2 will suffice you well enough

you can go on Quest 3 if you want but it has quite a lot of extra features that you cannot take advantage of

[dull terrace]

Okay awesome

I keep hearing of this hp reverb g2

Is that any good?

[haughty thistle]

It is a good headset for PCVR, just it's controllers are kinda meh.
It's also on borrowed time, given the fact that Microsoft already announced they want to discontinue the required software and remove support from Windows

[dull terrace]

Personally with HP laptops and printers I have had very bad experiences of them just dying one after like 1.5 years after purchase

[dull terrace]

Got it

[haughty thistle]

It's... Not a good purchase at this time unfortunately, a much as I wanna recommend it, I just can't tell anyone to buy something they can't even use starting with the next major Win11 update

[weak bluff]

soon paperweight

[little plinth]

I doubt

If PSVR2 can get to work on pc, even if barely

Reverb will have its workarounds

I doubt the 5% of WMR users will just let their headset become trash

Especially that the software is already there

[weak bluff]

the way they work is very different you know

also yes

someone is working on making WMR withotu Windows mixed reality software

but again you are buying a promise

[little plinth]

I don't think you even need to do that

You can probably just use the existing wmr software by forcing install on it

[weak bluff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFztaEu9Eo&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo

there

happy?

[little plinth]

What is your point

[weak bluff]

i still wont buy it and rely on this

im saying it is possible to run WMR even when MS stop supporting it

[little plinth]

Which is what I'm saying

And creating that software is pretty unnecessary
Microsoft is not bricking wmr
They're just removing it

You can probably use existing ones by installing via workarounds

It's not like them deprecating wmr and removing it from new versions of windows will suddenly make ones that still have wmr also break

Of course still won't recommend it, but saying all those wmr headsets will become trash is doubtful

[weak bluff]

there is more issue going on other than it just works

there wont be any fixes as a result of this and game dev will stop supporting it

it is a matter of time before the issue stack up to a point it becomes too unpleasant

[little plinth]

It just needs to work with steamvr

We giving up on wmr way too quickly considering the amount of copium on PSVR2

[weak bluff]

WMR and PSVR2 are in very different situation dont mix them

[little plinth]

Yes, with WMR still having a much brighter future than psvr2

[warm stirrup]

It's sad that's still true even when Microsoft is shutting down support for wmr

[little plinth]

everyone suddenly making vr shit

thanks apple

[rustic garnet]

https://youtu.be/jiikr42fQUE

seems neat

https://www.sw.siemens.com/en-US/digital-transformation/sony-head-mounted-display-vr/

the controller setup sure is ... interesting

But i figure they have something thought out for the use case

"8K = 4K + 4K" stopp we've been over this in the past 😭

looks like siemens has had a foot in this game for a while https://youtu.be/dHHUJDipziw

and looking at how shaky the laser pointer is in this video i figure i can understand why they went for that more pen grip style controller for the new headset

[onyx shadow]

Evening peeps! Got a question regarding VR Headsets for y'all today.

I currently have enough saved up for a Rift S. I'm planning on PCVR, and I currently have a GTX 1070, an i7-7700k and 32GB of DDR4.

I've contemplated a Quest 2, for many reasons more than just the updated hardware, but I'm concerned my PC won't have the power to run the higher resolution at the 120hz frame rate recent updates have given it. I do like the idea of being untethered, however I don't have a great WiFi setup, nor do I want to repurchase the games I already own on PC, for the quest.

The Rift S seems to be my better option in terms of compatibility with my hardware, but the Quest 2 is better because of the updated hardware, the standalone ability of the headset, and better overall tracking. Certainly the ability to use VR without my desktop would be a nice idea. But it is £100 more.

I plan on playing games like VR Chat, Elite Dangerous, War Thunder, Raceroom Racing Experience and a handful of other PCVR titles that aren't too demanding and I can already run at 4k.

What do you guys recommend? Should I pull the trigger on the Rift S as a starter headset?
(Bare in mind I have NEVER tried VR before beyond my phone in a Google cardboard and am iVRy plugin)
Or should I save up for a few more weeks and pull the trigger on a Quest 2 instead?

I really like both of them, they both have their merits and drawbacks, but I can't decide which one I'd rather have.

(in terms of using the Quest 2 over a USB-C cable - my motherboard does have USB-C, but I'm not sure if that's linked to the iGPU and if it may be an issue with the Quest 2s requirements. The issue with this is also to do with the fact that the cable that comes with the Quest 2 is not long enough for PCVR, so that's another £20 to drop on a very long USB C cable, honestly the Quest 2 seems like a moneypit to get it fully working on PC)

[little plinth]

how much is a pico 4

on your area

if you're using only for pcvr the pico 4 offers much better fidelity than quest 2

at the same price

rift S visually is really shit nowadays i wouldn't recommend personally
a few extra weeks saving up isn't much

i personally waited 3 months for my pico 4

and the standalone ability comes in clutch sometimes

the only drawback to pico 4 is it has less games on standalone, which you don't care about anyway so might as well not count is as a con

[onyx shadow]

So here's the prices for all contenders, minimum prices for each in C grade but functional condition (idc about the looks or if its dirty, none of them will have cracks or breaks, just scratches and maybe dirt and scuffs - Size doesnt matter either cos PCVR, so the lowest size is what I'm showing)

Quest 2: £170
Rift S: £120
Pico 4: £200 (There's a Pico G2 for £70, not sure if that's any good?)
Quest 1: £130

And for shiz and giggles

Quest 3: £360

I can also up the price by about £50 for each one to get one in A grade for each

My guesses are that if it's only £70, there is no way a Pico G2 is any good.

[little plinth]

no

anything below a pico 3 link is shit category

no reason to get pico 3 also

[onyx shadow]

Yeah I figured, but it came up in the search so

[little plinth]

worse than q2

[onyx shadow]

No Pico 2 tho

Or Pico 3

Oddly enough

[little plinth]

there is

[onyx shadow]

I mean none on the site

[little plinth]

the name is just not exactly that

pico 3 is called pico neo 3

[onyx shadow]

I just searched Pico and only got the 4 and G2

[little plinth]

pico 4 is the only good option for pcvr on your selection

Q1 is end of life

[onyx shadow]

It's also the most expensive.

[little plinth]

both q1 and rift s also is shit in resolution

[onyx shadow]

Man I'm using my PHONE for VR rn idc about resolution

You gotta remember that I only have a 1070

[little plinth]

pico 4 for pcvr is very close to the quest 3 which is 360 eur

[onyx shadow]

More resolution = More GPU stress

[little plinth]

just render it at lower resolution, it will still look better

[onyx shadow]

I need a headset that I'll get good performance with in games that I can already play

[little plinth]

though the biggest differentiator are the lenses

all the headsets you list use fresnel lense except the pico 4

which uses pancake lens

the same type of lens as the quest 3, quest pro

[onyx shadow]

I've not heard much about the Pico 4 at all tbh

[little plinth]

it's not released officially in many places

[onyx shadow]

How does the Pico 4 connect to my PC?

Same as Quest?

[little plinth]

similar way to the quest

via usb or wifi

if you're unsure about pico get the quest 2
the rest is not worth even considering

[onyx shadow]

My issue with that is that I only have ONE USB-C and it's neither a thunderbolt nor is it connected to my GPU

[little plinth]

but really the pico is the best value one there considering it is similar to quest 3 in pcvr

pico and quest uses the USB protocol

[onyx shadow]

Won't that cause issues with the display output over USB C though?

[little plinth]

not usb over dp

dp over usb

[onyx shadow]

Oh right

[little plinth]

it doesn't matter

[onyx shadow]

Okay but how will it perform

[little plinth]

it will work like any regular display port headset?

latency will be slightly higher but barely

[onyx shadow]

No I meant because of the higher resolution, how well will it work with the GTX 1070

That's why the Rift S was a contender, it's lower resolution and direct DP connection seems to be better for performance in general

[little plinth]

doesn't really matter, you can set the render resolution lower on the streaming app

[onyx shadow]

Yeah but I would rather not?

[little plinth]

the pico 4 when set at lower render res will still beat the rift s even at the same resolution

honestly if you're so hell bent on getting that outdated junk why even ask here

like i said, the pico 4 is similar to the quest 3

[onyx shadow]

What actually is the resolution of the Pico 4? I can't find it on their website

[little plinth]

2160x2160 per eye

[onyx shadow]

Because I'm looking for something that'll perform well for a cheap price

[onyx shadow]

That's a whole lotta pixels lmfao

[little plinth]

which is why, lower render settings exists

not to mention the pico 4 and quest can upscale using their onboard chip

[onyx shadow]

Doesn't that degrade the image quality?

[little plinth]

yes obviously, but it will still look better than the rift s

[onyx shadow]

That's actually a good point, if the Pico 4 can upscale that resolution then that might work better for me

Basically I'm just concerned about dropping £80 more on a headset and not being able to make full use of all it's features because of my stone age PC components

Granted it's not new, but £200 is a lotta money to me

[little plinth]

there are many tricks to getting performance

lowering render res, there's also foveated rendering

upscaling

there's also spacewarp

which is like the older brother of frame gen

[onyx shadow]

So, next point then, how does the Pico 4 stack up agaisnt the Quest 2 in terms of standalone performance? Really I'd only play VRChat in standalone tbh

[little plinth]

pico 4 has higher soc performance

they both have the same chip but the quest underclocks the shit out of it

but of course the pico 4 also need to push more pixels

they both will perform similarly

but the pico 4 will look better

[onyx shadow]

So, an A condition Pico 4 is £250. I'm alright with that.

What's the attachments like? Say I want a battery pack for example, I can get a battery strap for the Quest, is that something I can do for the Pico too?

[little plinth]

yes but if you're doing pcvr you don't even need that

[onyx shadow]

I'm asking all these questions because I didn't even know the Pico existed until today

[little plinth]

pico 4 also is more comfortable out of the box

[onyx shadow]

I might though, I doubt the cable I'd use will charge the headset while it's in use

[little plinth]

while the quest 2's demon strap is a mandatory change

[onyx shadow]

I did notice it's a lot smaller on the face

[little plinth]

the battery on the pico is on the back

which gives better weight balance also

[onyx shadow]

As a first time VR user the comfortability would be nice

[onyx shadow]

Charger on the back too or?

[little plinth]

usb c port is like the quest

on the left on the front

[onyx shadow]

Gotcha

I have a 10,000 mAh pack I use for my phone anyways

[little plinth]

there is no 3.5mm jack if you care about that

you'll need a splitter, they're like less than 5 bucks

[onyx shadow]

That's... I do kinda care about that

But at the same time... USB C to 3.5mm?

[little plinth]

yes, a splitter

[onyx shadow]

As long as it works the same, but my headphones are bluetooth anyways

My Crushers will outlast the Pico in a battery benchmark any day XD

I haven't charged them since monday and they're still goin

So, from what you're saying, the Pico 4 is the best price to performance headset for me

[little plinth]

yes

there is no better option especially that you don't care about standalone

[onyx shadow]

It's a hell of a lot more but I suspected that would be the case

[little plinth]

i mean it's still a deal

for pcvr it's similar to q3

[onyx shadow]

Yeah and it still has the standalone aspect

Just one more thing though, if I wanted to use it wirelessly with my PC, I have 5GHz wifi and the router is right next to me, how is it in terms of latency?

[little plinth]

i get 45 on worse cases

23 on best cases

only goes above 50 when my fps drops but that's no longer because of the network

[onyx shadow]

I'm assuming thats in miliseconds

[little plinth]

yes

[brazen crypt]

anyone else buy the meta quest 3 and it just straight up doesnt boot past the loading screen, been seeing this same meta logo for half an hour now. tried to factory reset it and it just said "no command" so far this has been a waste of money unless someone else knows a fix for this however everything online has just been "no fix"

[weak bluff]

You should still have warranty complaint to meta

[brazen crypt]

yeah i do im just so not in the mood to go deal with meta support and try to return this

living in alaska things take forever to ship to me and i've waited awhile for this its just disappointing

[weak bluff]

they are reviewing the superlight headset https://youtu.be/rjozb9BiiCg?si=g2ZP7IBe9WKN2VSf

DOA

[haughty thistle]

Yup. At that price you might as well just grab a BSB and end up with probably a better device lol

[rustic garnet]

You can make the game render at a lower resolution than the headset displays

[rustic garnet]

As if you cant upgrade those further down the line

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, but that also makes the image look blurry. A small difference just makes the image look soft but at some point it'll just come across as blurry. Meanwhile having a physically lower resolution will not look as blurry as a physically higher resolution screen at the same render resolution

[rustic garnet]

i still think buying an "overspecced" but better headset is a smarter move than buying EOL technology and having to upgrade the whole setup instead of just the gpu

ugh shopping advice is so dull can't we go back to talking about the ces stuff 🤩

[hallow cliff]

shiftall looks interesting and its good to see some bigscreen competitors come to market

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, but for their higher price they better offer as much more, which I doubt they will from what I've seen so far...

[onyx shadow]

I can't upgrade down the line without replacing my entire motherboard

I've run out of PCIe lanes

My 1070 is running off of 8 lanes as it is

I'd need a new board and CPU with more lanes for my M.2s so the new GPU that I get can access all 16 lanes it needs to perform as well as it should. Luckily my 1070 doesn't saturate the 8 lanes it currently has as is so I've not lost any performance as of now

[rustic garnet]

how do you end up with a x8 link to your gpu

[haughty thistle]

On most consumer Chipsets (not HEDT, server, etc.) the top two physical 16x slots usually have their lanes shared. Usually the second one is just wired up for 8x electrically, and if something is installed in that slot, it downgrades the top most 16x slot to just 8x as well

[soft gulch]

Not likely anymore, most boards only have one cpu wired 16x slot

[haughty thistle]

The ones with just one slot, yes. But as recent as my X570 board, this shared slot behaviour is still present in modern board

Those lanes all come off the CPU, so it makes sense for SLI reasons to put those two slots on the same lanes. The third physical x16 slot then is just 4 lanes off the chipset

[soft gulch]

Well of course an X570 would, it's a high end board

You can generally tell just by looking at a board... They'll often use reinforced 16x slots for cpu and regular for chipset

[weak bluff]

is your PC specs final? 7700K isnt a great value to buy was it given or you are buying it off?

[rustic garnet]

i think they already have it

[rustic garnet]

they have a 7700k that chip and board is seven years old

[weak bluff]

Since it is your first time, Rift S or Quest 2 either way your first time in VR will be great. Just remember to do deep hygenic cleaning when you buy those used headsets.

i think your next upgrade should be CPU after that

[onyx shadow]

PC specs are final. Nothing I can do for it.

I already own the PC.

[weak bluff]

ok

you have good wifi for quest 2?

[onyx shadow]

I don't have the greatest setup. I have a dual band Archer router that's next to my setup but that's it

[weak bluff]

that seems solid

yeah go for quest 2 for the most value you can get

[onyx shadow]

Lots of reviews mention having issues with archer and tp link routers

[weak bluff]

hm... yes they do

i cant really tell

which spefific model do you have

[onyx shadow]

It's a V400

Older model

But I do also have a Virgin Media router in here with 5GHz

It's just turned off

[weak bluff]

if you have unused 5ghz router use that dedicated for quest 2

[onyx shadow]

VR400 sorry

[onyx shadow]

I can do that - but how?

Hidden network that only the Quest can connect to?

[weak bluff]

just make only 1 device connect to it

with a different SSID

[onyx shadow]

Gotcha. Hidden network seems to be the best way to go for that.

Different SSID, no chance of family members trying to mess with it because it's hidden, etc

[weak bluff]

im not sure if quest 2 can connect to hidden network you have to ask others tinkering setting for that

also remember to get gigabit compatible ethernet cable to connect to PC

[onyx shadow]

I already have that setup and in place

CAT 6

[weak bluff]

that works ye

[onyx shadow]

I've been using my phone through iVRy to test all this and it works fine over a cable, but over WiFi I get a lot of lag and desync that I didn't used to get

And because my phone is a 4k 120hz screen, it's actually worked out quite well

Definitely need something better though as I don't have hands

And, try as I might, PSMoveService won't show up as a controller in SteamVR

[weak bluff]

just to maximize router performance disable 2.4Ghz and limit it to Wifi 5 and Wifi 6

or even flash custom OpenWRT firmware on it

[onyx shadow]

Yeah... I don't have WIFI 6

[weak bluff]

fixes a lot of bad stock firmware issue

wifi 5 is fine then

i do use wifi 5

[onyx shadow]

Honestly the Archer has really damn good firmware

It even has the ability to broadcast a seperate network for 5ghz so I might try that

[weak bluff]

if you dedicate a router just for wireless quest 2 just limit it to one work

[onyx shadow]

I just don't want to buy a Quest 2, have to pay for a cable to use it, or the remote desktop software, and have to buy a new router too, when the Rift S can do PCVR as practically plug and play

[rustic garnet]

dont all routers do that

[weak bluff]

well yes but quest 2 is also getitng easier than ever now you can use Steam Link and its just click and play

[rustic garnet]

or APs rather i shouldn't contribute to misnomers

[weak bluff]

dont use guest network

[onyx shadow]

I'm not gonna use the guest network, that'll stop it communicating with other devices on the network, which is kinda the opposite of what I wanna do...

My main concern is having the power to run the higher resolution, and I don't want to be buying more things to make it work

[weak bluff]

As long you have gigabit ethernet connected and 5Ghz wifi it should work

GTX 1070 is enough for low end side but 7700K may struggle especially VRChat

[onyx shadow]

I haven't had issues with the 7700k as of yet in VR Chat, and I play at 4k as it is. I should mention that it's overclocked to 5ghz though.

The overclock probably adds a fair bit

[rustic garnet]

what kinds of framerates are you getting at 4k

higher resolutions also hit the GPU much harder than the CPU

[onyx shadow]

In a world with just my friends I'm looking around 60-70fps on average at highest settings

[rustic garnet]

that's ....

not great

[onyx shadow]

How is it not great? My monitor is only 60Hz XD

[rustic garnet]

Yeah but if you're trying to use those numbers to validate vr performance you're way out of your depth

[onyx shadow]

I literally said I've never had VR before how more out of my depth can I get

[rustic garnet]

You can

read

things

Or ask

Someone

such as

us

[onyx shadow]

You mean like the people here?

Who I just asked?

[rustic garnet]

The target framerate for almost all vr headsets is 90

and that's because 90 is just above where most people start getting woozy

[onyx shadow]

Man I use my phone for VR and it only gets to like 21 FPS and I feel fine

[rustic garnet]

alr

[onyx shadow]

Not to mention this is the highest settings I can run the game in too

I should be able to turn stuff down

GeForce says I'm ready for it, but honestly I take that with a pinch of salt seen as it recommends a GTX 970

Anything I can run for VR Benchmarks before I buy to make sure the PC is ready?

This is why I'm leaning more towards Quest and Pico, if it does turn out that I can't hit those FPS on my desktop, I can still use the headset on its own

[rustic garnet]

geforce who

geforce experience?

[onyx shadow]

Yea

[rustic garnet]

idk i guess the steamvr performance test thing

[onyx shadow]

The thing that tells me I need a 4690k and a GTX 970 😅

[rustic garnet]

but that's very old

like

og vive launch old

a different time

[onyx shadow]

I mean it'll give me some insight at least

Ah it's been removed from the steam store

[stray slate]

gmod on vr

with realistic zombie mods and guns

scary music and liminal space maps

prolly shit urself

[little plinth]

desktop vr is, different

those shitty phone vr stuff are usually 3dof or sometimes have no movement at all

which are less affected by motion sickness

that's why stuff like beatsaber is a particularly easy game for beginner in VR for motion sickness

when i put my friend on pavlov vr

they vomit in 5 mins

[onyx shadow]

My phone has 6DOF

[little plinth]

no phone VR has 6dof

[onyx shadow]

I can ensure you mine does

It uses the front camera like the Quest 2 uses its camera

[little plinth]

what do you play on it

[onyx shadow]

It's not very accurate or reliable but it 100% works, and when it's not being janky it tracks quite reasonably

[onyx shadow]

VR Chat, Elite Dangerous and War Thunder

[little plinth]

can you walk in vrchat without the joysick

[onyx shadow]

Yes

[little plinth]

like walk one side on your irl room

and actually move

[onyx shadow]

I can also stand up and sit down

It's very light dependant and it gets thrown off rather easily by objects but it's reasonable enough

And when VR Chat isn't running like ass I can reach 75FPS (My phone screen is 120hz) so it's quite good

It's definetly blurrier than I would like but certainly text that's less than a metre away I can read fine

The screen itself is 2400x1080 so it comes out to about 1080x1080 per eye with some black bars at the sides

[little plinth]

less than a meter is, a really low standard though

[onyx shadow]

I mean yeah but for a phone in a google cardboard, it's serviceable

[little plinth]

i can read text that are like 10 meters away

[onyx shadow]

Man I wish

[rustic garnet]

wait what im missing out

[onyx shadow]

But I mean it's enough to be able to read the menus so that's enough for me

[little plinth]

not much, just scroll up a bit

[rustic garnet]

no like

are hmds really so high res now

mine is aging

[onyx shadow]

The Pico 4 which I think Fioyna runs is like 4k PER EYE

[little plinth]

the pico 4 is literally 2160x2160 so ye

2k per eye

4k combined

though my render res is at 2544x2544 per eye

[onyx shadow]

Wait isn't 3840x2160 classed as 4K?

[little plinth]

flatscreen 4k

[onyx shadow]

Ohhh

[rustic garnet]

the cv1 is half that 😨

per one side

[little plinth]

the "4k" name is dumb anyway

[rustic garnet]

so a quarter the pixels

[onyx shadow]

Oh and it classes the width as 4K not the height

[little plinth]

anything in the ballpark of 4000px width is "4k"

[onyx shadow]

4K is dumb it's not even 4000 pixels

[rustic garnet]

pimax 8k flashbacks

[little plinth]

in the case of my vr headset, higher than 4k

4320 combined width

[onyx shadow]

4000 pixels is that true 4K I think 3840x2160 should be just labelled as QHD

Or OHD

O standing for Octa, Octa Full HD, so 8 times HD

[stray slate]

LMAO

[onyx shadow]

OHD would be much better and fits with Q, or Quad HD (which is 2k), and then HD

[stray slate]

had a few people go back to bby cuz they didnt like thge quest 3

gave them motion sickness

[rustic garnet]

nope nope nope no more prefixes

2160p is perfectly fine ty

[warm stirrup]

Speaking of resolution, when it comes to resolution, your performance will change (obviously), so with VR, how would I measure that performance? For example, would the quest 2 be equivalent to 1080p game play? (Where a 3060 would usually get 60-80 on high settings and 3080 would get 100+)

Does the amount of displays in the hmd change how your performance would be?

I'm asking this to find what my performance would be if I was to use a bigscreen beyond on a PC with a 3070 Ti.

This would help my decision for if I should get a new gpu, or get the headset first

[pale orbit]

https://www.uploadvr.com/id-software-team-beef-contact-quest-ports-official-release/

[brazen crypt]

attempt 2 hopefully it works this time

[brazen crypt]

update: it works

[weak bluff]

that is a frame i get with 6600 XT and 12400F IN VR

in desktop without vr its 150-200fps

[weak bluff]

did you update your drivers? it could be very outdated driver to recommend that

if you can barely pass 60 at flat screen how little it will be when you run on VR imagine that

if you buy a Rift S you will be running at 1648x1776 per eye (reality twice that) resolution

[rustic garnet]

@onyx shadow hey just fyi i ran an original rift on a gtx 1060 3gb and i5 8400 for the longest time

[balmy inlet]

i cant find a proper tutorial for it or im just not using the correct search terms but

how do i move all ways, forward/backward, in meta quest 3 when i have a set boundary and limited space? in some games like job simulator, I'm trying to reach something but cant since i cant go forward IRL. is there a setting to make me move in place to imitate moving forward?

[weak bluff]

you have to check your game for that

some games dont allow you to move at all

they may have alternative controls

[weak bluff]

I hate this ai image https://vxtwitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1724080082191307020/photo/1

[onyx shadow]

It's the newest driver

[onyx shadow]

Which is again, why I'm considering the quest 2 and Pico 4. If it turns out my PC isn't powerful enough, I can use the headsets standalone

[weak bluff]

That make less sense for PC. Quest 2 not only is higher resolution, the way standalone works means you will have performance penalty compared to DisplayPort powered headset because your PC will need to encode video for it to be send to headset.

If your PC is not powerful enough, it makes DisplayPort more important.

As for if your PC can run VR? Yes it will run. I had Core i3-9100F and GTX 970 before and it is survivable.

I think you will be happy with Rift S since its not high res anyways. Quest 2 is the go to for longer term use.

Up to you.

Will you upgrade pc soon?

[onyx shadow]

I mean it makes tons of sense. I don't want to buy a headset that isn't standalone and have it be a paperweight if my PC isn't capable.

The quest 2 will allow me to use it regardless, and the Pico 4 is even more powerful than the Quest 2. They'll be harder to run on PC, of course, but at the very least if they can't be used with my PC due to low frame rates or otherwise, I can still use them

[weak bluff]

Quest 2 then. If you buy used then set notifications because you could be shocked by some good condition sold at very cheap price.

[onyx shadow]

Most likely not. I've topped out the upgrade path for my current setup without needing an entirely new motherboard.

I refuse to go 8th gen because thats still just as outdated so I'd want to be 10th gen at least. A 10th gen i5 and an overclocking capable motherboard will run me about £400, and then a new GPU could be even more than that.

[onyx shadow]

A lot of people tell me the quest 2 isn't worth it without the battery pack, better strap and remote desktop program/link cable. Those add more money to the final price of getting it to work on PC, and for like, £30 to £50 more I can get the Pico 4 which will just work without paying for programs to make it work.

[weak bluff]

That is... True

You dont need to buy virtual link for wireless vr just use Steam Link

So cross that

Pico 4 is good but you cannot use steam link

[onyx shadow]

The Pico 4 comes with a long enough cable for PCVR, and the battery isn't a huge issue because I have a power bank. The Pico 4 is better balanced, more powerful, etc

[onyx shadow]

Can't use steam link on Pico 4? Is it quest only?

[weak bluff]

Quest only

[weak bluff]

You should not use that because the cable included is USB 2.0

[onyx shadow]

Looking at reports people have got it on the Pico 4 but are waiting for an update to API 30.

And apparently Steam Link isn't great either.

[weak bluff]

Its free and its improving

[weak bluff]

What about AMD?

They are i say better value

[onyx shadow]

Had bad experiences with AMD, never going back

[weak bluff]

Even when its fixed?

[onyx shadow]

I don't trust it, the issues I've had were recent. I've had 3 laptops and a desktop literally catch fire using AMD.

[weak bluff]

You are just unlucky majority have amd have no issues but whatever

How much is Pico 4 and Quest 2 that you can find

[onyx shadow]

Well I'm buying second hand but from stores that provide warranty

I've listed the prices already lemme find them

[onyx shadow]

Here

Those are the C grade units, but add another £30 for B grade and another £50 for A grade

[weak bluff]

Oh UK

£170 seems ok but i think it could be found cheaper

[onyx shadow]

Quite possibly, but cheaper AND 2 years warranty?

[weak bluff]

Then it's a good value

Gumtree?

[onyx shadow]

Never used it

[weak bluff]

There are many cheaper deals on gumtree

[onyx shadow]

With this being my first time buying VR I'd rather buy from places I have a lot of good experiences with - especially with warranty and the ability to just walk back into a shop and return it no questions asked within 14 days

[weak bluff]

Then 170 is solid

[onyx shadow]

Basically means if I try it and hate it I can just walk to the store and exchange it even if it completely works

[weak bluff]

Then avoid Rift S

Rift S is a nightmare to fix

[onyx shadow]

Well, all headsets are a nightmare to fix

[weak bluff]

And replacement cost almost same as buying another one

The problem with Rift S is cable is known to be vulnerable and super expensive

A cable cost way more then headset itself

[onyx shadow]

The point being that if it does break on me, and it's not due to wear and tear, I can just take it back and they'll give me another as part of the warranty - or refund the whole price and I just buy another

[weak bluff]

Controller is also harder to repair

Quest 2 otherwise has abundant of replacement parts

Even with warranty over its easy to repair

[onyx shadow]

I do like what I see about the quest 2, but the almost mandatory requirement to have most of its optional parts is what's putting me off

People say you only get 3 hours out of the integrated battery for example

[weak bluff]

I recommend buy 3rd party strap and strap your own powerbank on back

[onyx shadow]

And while I do have a fast charging socket near my setup that I use for my phone, that's kinda defeating the point of being wireless

[weak bluff]

It acts as weight balance and improve comfort as well

[onyx shadow]

I do have a power bank already that's 10,000mAh

I'm gonna focus today on getting PSMoveService running properly anyway

I'm gonna use the controllers as hands for now but when I do get VR I can use them as FBT

[weak bluff]

If you have PSVR why not use that?

[onyx shadow]

I don't have PSVR

I have a phone and two PS3 Move controllers

[weak bluff]

Or AprilTags

[onyx shadow]

No idea what those are

[weak bluff]

You print paper and strap to you body then point camera at it

Basically free FBT

[onyx shadow]

Yeah nah

I prefer the psmove controllers

[onyx shadow]

Man there's really no way to invert the Yaw of a PS3 Move Service controller

[little plinth]

questionable accuracy

seems janky enough that i rather not use FBT at all

[weak bluff]

you get what you pay for ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[onyx shadow]

Does anyone here with access to the PSMoveService have the knowledge to tell me how to invert the Y axis (up and down) of my controller? I have the camera mounted to the ceiling, but they're upside down due to how they're mounted, which means I need to invert the Y axis somehow.

[rustic garnet]

It worked pretty well when i tried it provided you have a high resolution camera and a good viewing angle

but the tags themselves need to be quite sturdy/bulky for 360 degree tracking at least, and the latency was questionable but can probably be improved with a wired connection

Oh and a big thing is motion blur in the camera completely ruins the tracking, so you need to be able to control shutter speed

If i actually had a reason to use it maybe I would tinker and tweak with it to get it actually working well but i'm not really into vrchat so

But it was a cool demonstration of what having tracked legs is like!

[onyx shadow]

I managed to fix this. Buyt now the controller is facing the wrong way...

[onyx shadow]

Given up with PSMoveService. Tried Driver4VR and it made it a hell of a lot worse - Had to refund it after an hour of tinkering

[pure pivot]

trying to setup my rift with my laptop

but it keeps detecting it as a second monitor

[weak bluff]

install Oculus Software

[pure pivot]

i disabled the igpu

[pure pivot]

im not that dumb, i already have it

[weak bluff]

have you go through device setup in Oculus Software

[pure pivot]

yes and thats another issue

it says no hdmi connection but it is connected

its just displaying as a monitor

i didnt complete the setup tho cuz the hdmi wouldnt check off

[weak bluff]

update driver then restart PC

[weak bluff]

if its already up to date restart

[pure pivot]

oh k

accidentally shut it down then rebooted

hope that still counts

ok so i get display on the integrated graphics but not the discrete gpu

the discrete gpu is a 4050 btw

[weak bluff]

i forgot that card existed

oh i see

you have a laptop

[amber sleet]

i remember contacting support and they said my 6800xt isnt supported for oculus pcvr

[weak bluff]

yeah that is problematic

ignore that

it is supported

[amber sleet]

i know it is

[weak bluff]

if it works it works

[amber sleet]

i just had a faulty cable

[weak bluff]

what do you mean by that

from what i know all laptop display out are from integrated GPU and it is the major problem with vr laptop

[pure pivot]

The integrated gpu is Intel graphics, right? Well the dedicated GPU is the 4050

I disabled the integrated gpu to use the 4050

And it works

But not for the rift

[pure pivot]

I’ll see if that’s the issue

But it works fine with regular monitors and even TVs

[devout trail]

Chances you have a laptop that does not have the display ports wired up to the discrete card and only though the integrated. Some laptops will route the video through the integrated from the dedicated but it’s hit and miss depending on each vendors choice on how they manufacture it.

[weak bluff]

that is like every laptop problem

but i forgot what is the solution

[haughty thistle]

If the Laptop doesn't have a MUX Switch or the video ports wired up directly to the dGPU, then there is no fix. The only options are to get a different laptop that does have the display connectors wired through a MUX or to the dGPU directly, or if the laptop has a Thunderbolt port, an external GPU is also an option...

[weak bluff]

Idk how common mux switch is

In this case depends on what laptop it is

[rustic garnet]

doesn't nv control panel show how the system is wired

[pure pivot]

it only has 1 hdmi port

[haughty thistle]

Me honestly neither, but they don't seem to be particularly cheap when it's absent (for the display outs) in even relatively high-end offerings from the likes of Alienware. Heck, even my XMG/Tongfeng Laptop only has a single MUX for the eDP connector for Nvidia Optimus, all of it's display outs are connected straight to the 2070 (I know this, as the display outs stop working when I disable the dGPU in the bios lol)

[haughty thistle]

Not really. In the case of my XMG for example it only shows the eDP connection when both dGPU and iGPU are enabled, despite the fact that all the external display outs (HDMI and both DP connections on the Thunderbolt jack) are wired up straight to the dGPU...

[devout trail]

Yeah I had to deal with that on an old dell laptop that had a DP port. It ended up being only wired to the intel GPU and when trying to use my Rift S it would give all sorts of flickering and disconnect/connect sounds. Came to find out that although the dGPU could be output through that port as it would route through the integrated the actual connection itself was direct to the iGPU so the oculus software couldn't find the headset.

Once my new PC arrives ill finally be able to try out this Aero! Im excited!

[rustic garnet]

ok so like realistically what reasons are there to upgrade from a cv1

I feel like the only things that have gotten undeniably better in the industry is visual quality

the touch controllers are just the standard layout/features everyone else copies now anyway

it's already a comfortable headset with good in built audio and the tracking (while inconvenient for first time set up) is rock solid for existing users

[rustic garnet]

and ig things are getting smaller but that's a very recent development

[haughty thistle]

Eyyy!
Send you a DM with some stuff you may wanna know when you get your Aero 😄

[devout trail]

Much appreciated kind sir!

[pure pivot]

so what ur saying.. is it wont work on my laptop

i should probably clarify that the make and model is the MSI Thin GF63 12VE

[devout trail]

Yeah pretty much. Unless there’s something else giving you trouble that scenario sounded exactly like what I was dealing with.

[pure pivot]

you said your new pc is an aero? like the gigabyte aero laptop? try that out with the rift and lemme know if it works

[devout trail]

No I bought the Varjo Aero but my desktop pc had an embarrassing issue that required me to send it back for replacement. Getting a massive upgrade though 🙂

So right now my aero is sitting here with nothing to do. Waiting patiently lol. Wife’s PC has a 7800 so I can’t even use it on that.

[tidal portal]

I got varjo before christmas and it's been a great drop in replacement for Index.

Redshift fix + dropping brightness to 50 were great improvements for visual quality. I also swapped face gasket to vive 6mm one

[devout trail]

That’s what I’m upgrading from as well. I’ll be able to try it out come probably 1st of February maybe a day or two later depending on shipping.

[cedar belfry]

I switched from Oculus client to Steam Link. Now vrserver takes the lead

Steam Link is soooo much better than Oculus Air Link. I actually prefer it over a physical connection because my USB bandwidth is taken by everything else connected to my PC, and works better for me

[weak bluff]

Vạrjo Aero is now discontinued and no longer on sale

[gloomy crater]

Welp. I was considering getting an aero and buying an RTX card to add to my mini PC just for VR, but it seems that plan is out the window now. Back to waiting for deckard I guess

[weak bluff]

You won't max out specs anyways

I guess

[devout trail]

Yep once the resellers run out of stock its RIP for the Aero. Glad i got mine awhile ago 🙂

[gloomy crater]

I guess the Beyond is the only real option now for people wanting a true upgrade to the index until either the VR1 or whatever valve is up to releases

[haughty thistle]

Well, the VR1 is like twice the price for barely an upgrade. Wouldn't really call it an alternative...

The fact that the Aero is listed as discontinued is very strange tho. Didn't they explicitly state during the XR-4 launch that the Aero will continue to be sold as-is for customers who don't need the full XR-4 setup?

Might also be that Varjo just is stopping their B2C shop instead opting to sell only B2B and consumers need to go through a reseller in the future..

[warm stirrup]

What are the chances they are making an aero 2?

[haughty thistle]

Very low. Spoke with one of their customer retention reps after the XR-4 launch and they said that Varjo does not intend on releasing another VR-only device. Period.

Also they wanted to reduce their lineup to deal with the software more easily...

[sullen linden]

i have a hotspot enabled on my laptop and i'm still getting lag on steam link

whats a silution

[haughty thistle]

Windows Hotspot is not recommended for VR. It has quite a bit of delay and puts a very heavy load on your CPU. You should use a dedicated router instead or just run a USB cable

[balmy inlet]

for vr on pc games, what is the best way to move around in games? i have very little space in my room. are there trackers or something that can help replicate my jogging in place instead of requiring that i physically move all sides?

[little plinth]

the joystick

[haughty thistle]

If it's a game that requires moving around physically (like say Job simulator) then you can use Play space mover (which is part of OVR Advanced Settings) to shift your playspace around instead

But it's very few games that don't have a way of moving around with a stick. In general tho, you should make sure to at least have your arm span of distance to any other object in your room when playing VR. You would want to smack your hand on a desk or whatever. If you don't even have that space, then VR might not be the best way if playing games in your current space

[balmy inlet]

i have only bought job sim from steam for now cuz i wasnt sure how great it would be to use a joystick to move around in games like alyx or skyrim or la noire. i tried moving around with a joystick in Powerwash VR and the steam hub space or whatever it's called and it made me dizzy cuz it teleports you instead of visually moving from place to place. will the play space mover github allow me to move much smoothly?

using a quest 3, btw, if that helps

[rapid otter]

This is why VR is amazing

[rustic garnet]

pretty much all games now let you move smooth in addition to teleporting

[balmy inlet]

that's cool. thank you! i'm planning on buying those games i listed. are there any other worthwhile games on steam/meta? i got my eyes on that AC nexus game too and the creed boxing game

[rustic garnet]

um

I mean there are tons of good games

idk which ones are to your taste though

ofc there's the old classics like job sim and the lab which are good as first introductions to vr, but get kinda stale after a bit

i assume you've already heard of vrchat which isnt really a game per se and might not be for everyone (i dont like talking to strangers tehe) but if you do it's a very expressive environment i would say

there aren't that many full story games tbh at least ones that really take advantage of vr interactions

alyx is obviously one and i think the one that does it the best but boneworks has also recieved high praise for it's interactions but they definitely have a different approach

OH and on the oculus desktop store there is lone echo

it's imo almost as good at interactions as alyx and really is aaa quality imo regarding graphics and story

It was really ahead of it's time imo i think it was a rift+touch launch title

But yeah there are a lot of smaller indie games

i played a fishermans tale recently and it was really cute but very short

more of an art piece than a toy really

And then ofc there's all the vr mods for flatscreen games which i never really feel like they're worth playing in vr because none of the gameplay is designed for vr in the way eg alyx and lone echo are

It's the same problem as trying to port vr games to keyboard and mouse

except in reverse

Like ok for example minecraft vr

it's a pretty extreme case because the gameplay is very abstracted from any physicality

which means mining and placing blocks (two very important steps in the gameplay loop if you'll agree) feel very unsatisfying in vr bc it's reduced to pointing amd clicking

ofc there is roomscale mining so you actually have to swing tools to break blocks but the issue is the game is not balanced for this

and it's exhausting

And any kind of gui is the same as the desktop version but your mouse is replaced by a laser pointer in your hand

i think it would be so awesome if you could physically lay down items onto a crafting table or in a chest for example

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/7Ewip5lKosE

[little plinth]

unless you play the java version

bedrock minecraft VR

yea it's lame

but the java mod has real interaction

you can mine, by actually swinging the pickaxe

place block by... placing blocks

[rustic garnet]

last time i used vivecraft the default interactions were just button presses