virtual-reality

[zinc timber]

Which, I mean, makes sense

Most people are very good at looking at things and moving their fingers

[lime pewter]

a very casual device so far

[lime pewter]

sadly hand controls isn't the only thing you have to use...

[warm stirrup]

I'd actually buy it if it was 500-1000 USD

[zinc timber]

Yeah, wouldn't expect to see that kind of pricing for like, a decade

[lime pewter]

considering its apple, I would go up to like 1800-2200 if they gave controllers as an option or allowed a keyboard and mouse (if I was a mac user ofc)

[zinc timber]

It supports Bluetooth mkb afaik

[lime pewter]

no point getting a device at such a price if it doesn't boost efficiency in anything and only slows you down

unless you are rich and like the facetime features that were shown

for meeting or smth

bit expensive for a device used for meeting tho

[zinc timber]

I bet this is vr's iphone moment

The interface, much like the iphones, was just better than what anyone else was doing

And apple has the pull to get stuff like Disney content and an army of devs

[lime pewter]

I don't really expect much out of it

its basically just a device for the rich to play with

for work, its a waste
and for average person, it doesn't do anything to make the price worth

[warm stirrup]

I mean isn't that what Apple has always been doing vs the devices google and Samsung release?

[lime pewter]

not really in many cases honestly...

when I say "the rich" I am talking about those who can spend thousands whenever they want for a toy

a lot of their products, considering how long they can last
are fine for average, just not for broke

[zinc timber]

The rich will buy this, but so will businesses and devs

[lime pewter]

would be dumb imo if businesses did it...

spending 3500 to slow down your work efficiency

[zinc timber]

?
this doesn't replace a macbook or pc

at least not for every use case

[lime pewter]

it isn't an extension either

[zinc timber]

do you actually think that hololens exists because microsoft is a charity or something?

[lime pewter]

the thing that would slow you down on what apple made

is the controls

[zinc timber]

hololens is fucking trash, and ar is still valuable enough that microsoft has a business out of it

no, the controls are the best part lmao

[lime pewter]

not for efficiency

[zinc timber]

this is like when blackberry laughed at the iphone for not having a keybaord

and then whoops

turns out that was the correct choice for consumers

[lime pewter]

vision pro is just an expensive device for facetime/meetings

[lime pewter]

not really, because you can type as fast on a display as a keyboard

[zinc timber]

no you cannot

[warm stirrup]

My head hurts now lmao

[lime pewter]

you cannot use eye tracking, voice controls and hand tracking as efficiently as keyboard and mouse

idk about you, but I would not use a device for work that would make me take 10x as long to finish my job

[warm stirrup]

I feel like how Linus was feeling in the wan show before Taiwan

[lime pewter]

would have very little uses, if it has no option to add controllers, keyboard, etc

[zinc timber]

yeah, so obviously don't replace your desktop with this

it's like people who said "ipad is useless"

or people who said "why would I ever buy airpods"

[lime pewter]

tfw this is a standalone device, so if you used it for work
you would HAVE to replace your desktop, because its not an extension

[zinc timber]

if you don't actually consider why people might want something, and just go "but this isn't good for what currently exists"

then you're just being small minded

[zinc timber]

this does extend macs

[lime pewter]

meetings is all I can think of

everything else it would not work well for in its current state

very casual uses mostly

limiting it to rich people (unless somehow your average person gonna buy a 3500$ device just for facetime, viewing some images, etc)

[zinc timber]

only considering what it is now is dumb

[little plinth]

You underestimate the power it has in editing

[warm stirrup]

All I gotta say, actually light is right

[little plinth]

I already use virtual screens on a fricking pico 4 for my desktop and it's already good enough

[zinc timber]

apple's vision for mixed reality absolutely dumps on whatever meta is doing

and windows mixed reality
lol
lmao

[rustic garnet]

conpin can you shut up already stop hatig

[zinc timber]

this is a first gen product, and it's definitely not something most people should buy

[warm stirrup]

Yes pls god

[lime pewter]

all I am gonna say is, people won't use a device that is fun but makes your work efficiency slower

[zinc timber]

but this is absolutely the iphone moment for ar

they've already got the core parts working really well, by all accounts

[rustic garnet]

You haven't even fucking tried it

[lime pewter]

do you even have to try it to be able to compare the efficiency of controls, between mouse and keyboard/controllers vs "siri close this app", ok sign when looking at an icon, etc

[silver lily]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-apple-iphone-iphone-imac-apple-watch-gif-25440702

[zinc timber]

controllers are just worse for general UI?

[rustic garnet]

PLEASE that's such a misrepresentation

[zinc timber]

I can look around faster than I can move my hand

[rustic garnet]

We don't even know the control scheme of anything

[zinc timber]

by all accounts the UI is actually incredible

[zinc timber]

no, we know that the primary pointing device is looking at stuff, and you input a basic click/tap by touching your thumb and index finger

it has enough sensors to track your hands at least a bit over your shoulder, from what MKBHD said

[lime pewter]

I cannot imagine, a lot of uses in work where this would work well

meetings and such is where I see the most happening

[zinc timber]

you can't imagine how looking at things to select them is much easier than waving your arms around while carrying something?

or how looking at a text field and talking is vastly superior to using controllers to type?

[lime pewter]

tfw joysticks exist

tho mouse and keyboard is still king for efficiency in most jobs

[zinc timber]

the fact that you're seriously claiming that joysticks are comparable to your own eyes

are you just arguing in bad faith or something

[lime pewter]

eye tracking so far being absolute dog crap accuracy, and the worst part being voice commands requirement

[zinc timber]

except

as previously stated

[lime pewter]

no, I wish they would've made it more of an extension instead of standalone

[zinc timber]

many

many

times

literally every single person who has used it

has said that the eye tracking fucking shits on whatever anyone else has done

[lime pewter]

currently, meetings
seems like something that could be 10/10

[zinc timber]

the two absolute standout features of this device are the screens, which are literally best in class, better than vajro

and the UI, which is again as far as anyone has said best in class

[lime pewter]

it doesn't even just have to work well
it has to be about as fast as just using a keyboard and mouse for a lot of work related

[zinc timber]

no?

what do you even do where typing speed is the bottleneck for productivity?

[lime pewter]

don't really think your boss will enjoy you switching to a device that will make you take months longer to finish

there are some use cases I do see tho

mostly related to meetings, interacting more in person while doing something else

[zinc timber]

no, what job is bottlenecked by typing speed

like

that's not a thing

there is no job where they hire a human to type real fast that uses a regular ass keyboard

[lime pewter]

better question is, what job would be bottlenecked by not being able to select, open, or close as fast

[zinc timber]

have you had an actual job

what the fuck kind of occupation is based on APM

data entry slaves?

[lime pewter]

a lot of programs used require you to select something, if you have to look at it every single time you want to do it

just adds up

[zinc timber]

wha

do you

not look at things

when you click on them

I feel like that's a requisite part of clicking on something

[lime pewter]

pointing your mouse > pressing cliok
vs
looking at an icon, tab, etc > doing 👌🏻 > it responding

which is more efficient

[zinc timber]

okay, either you're dumb or you're arguing in bad faith

because no sane human being is going to argue that using a mouse is faster than just looking at things

[lime pewter]

but its not just looking at things

[warm stirrup]

This ^

[lime pewter]

sadly for you, its neither

[zinc timber]

so you're just dumb, gotcha

that's less annoying, but it is sadder

[lime pewter]

meh, the saddest thing here is you right now but sure...

[warm stirrup]

Bro just said, I'm not mad, just disappointed

XD

[lime pewter]

been here repeatedly saying "I see enough uses, especially with meetings, but the controls are going to slow down a lot of jobs"

[little plinth]

You're comparing it to other companies that half ass their tracking

Basing it*

[lime pewter]

most obvious example would just be coding jobs or anything that requires more than a few inputs per minute...

[little plinth]

That's why they have magic keyboard connectivity as one of their ads

[zinc timber]

coding speed is not based on APM lmao

[lime pewter]

but importing your mac display into your headset, while putting other things to the side, such as those you have to talk to, sure
great

[zinc timber]

you don't hire a programmer literally for typing skills

[little plinth]

And yes as a student web dev i think more than i do type

[zinc timber]

you hire a programmer for problem solving capabilities

we literally have AI to do the boilerplate shit now

[little plinth]

If me finishing a website is based on WPM i would finish shit in two hours

[zinc timber]

the job of the human is to actually create things, not do 100 APM

[lime pewter]

you wouldn't even be able to do 10

well, barely maybe

[zinc timber]

imagine being so skilled at something that's not monetizable damn

[little plinth]

Again you never even tried it

We don't know how good apple's virtual keyboard is

[zinc timber]

if being wrong was an occupation you'd be the fucking michael jordan of it

[little plinth]

But then apple literally advertise keyboard connectivity in one of the section

[lime pewter]

tho best use I can imagine is using the bit they showed about importing your mac device display into your headset
and still being able to keep other apps to the side

[little plinth]

Magic mouse and keyboard

[zinc timber]

it's fine
probably faster and more accurate than controllers because it's just your eyes, but it seems like it's mainly voice input

MKBHD went over all of this in his impressions

the eye tracking works really well

that's also what everyone else has said

[little plinth]

Well that's to be expected

They have a whole array of sensors just for it

[lime pewter]

wii remote typing 2024 remake

[little plinth]

Unlike the competitions

Wii remote typing is literally just the current vr solution

[zinc timber]

yeah, and the best in class passthrough should make using a keyboard really easy

[lime pewter]

hope they do a lot with that part honestly

[zinc timber]

it's good enough to take notes on your phone through, so a keyboard should be pretty trivial

[little plinth]

I can already type on my keyboard using pico 4 passthrough

Let alone apple's 10x better shit

And also. If you rely on your eyes a lot to type you're probably not the type that do 100WPM

[zinc timber]

y'know what would be sick

the VP has IR illuminators

and probably IR cameras

so it could have night vision passthrough

[little plinth]

That's the most awesome shit

I had to buy my own IR floodlight for my pico

[warm stirrup]

Broooo that be fucking crazy

[zinc timber]

walk around your house in the dark

[warm stirrup]

Not me at 3 AM using it to walk to my refridgerator

[lime pewter]

I just think its sad you have to say unnecessary stuff to feel good...
would be nice if you could just read what I said, basically all I've been saying is anything that requires a higher amount of inputs, (like being able to type on a keyboard) the controls wouldn't work well for that
but as an extension to a mac device keeping tabs or info to the side, or doing meetings while just using your desktop/laptop (if they don't try to focus too much on the standalone aspect of it) would be great

[warm stirrup]

I fucking give up

[zinc timber]

The fact that you can only think of it as a display just proves that you can't consider the wider implications of a major company actually working on AR

[weak bluff]

Why VR prototype keep using Oculink cable instead of anything else

[zinc timber]

I bet a lot of development stuff already uses it so

[lime pewter]

you cannot imagine using voice controls or hand tracking instead of a mouse or keyboard to do video editing, typing emails, coding, etc being quite a bit slower? (which is a lot of computer related jobs)

there are some specific stuff it would be great for tho

[zinc timber]

No, the vast, vast majority of jobs are not apm bottlenecked

If they were we'd all have switched to DVORAK years ago

[lime pewter]

they would be if you try to write some code with god damn eye tracking or speech to text instead of a keyboard

[zinc timber]

The value of a human is the ability to problem solve, not type fast (unless you're a professional transcriber)

Siri, have gpt write me a function that does x

Great, have it write some tests

[warm stirrup]

Real life Jarvis and Cortana lets go XD

[zinc timber]

That doesn't look right, on line forty eight it made this error

Of course that's not reality for now

But y'know, the thing works with keyboards so

[warm stirrup]

But I'll be damn sure we are headin' straight there

[lime pewter]

which is what I was saying earlier..

using it as an extension to what you are already doing basically

in which case you would be talking about not needing 500 displays all around the room

even if one casual example would be "walking to the kitchen, opening a recipe to the side"

or the bit of opening 3D models in AR

importing it from desktop to AR
there are some specific types of uses I can imagine
but its not exactly the most all round device, pretty niche

[zinc timber]

It's niche for now

AR will probably replace everything other than high end desktop in like, ten to twenty years

[lime pewter]

I at least want AR/VR to replace my monitor/TV

have the perceived size without the space taken up

[zinc timber]

I think TV is probably going to take longer to replace than monitors or laptops

the communal experience is pretty important for TV

[lime pewter]

I use my TV as a monitor, so...

[zinc timber]

also, what I think is probably not talked about enough is the cameras on the VP

[lime pewter]

mostly about living alone and wanting a large display

[zinc timber]

the content creation capabilities that opens up

adult and otherwise

much like putting high quality cameras in phones

[zinc timber]

Huh
If the vision pro uses custom facial scans
I wonder if it even has user adjustable ipd

[lime pewter]

they said you have to buy inserts iirc?

[sour quartz]

i think that was only for prescription lenses

[hearty mica]

Just a quick question how realistic is it that the Valve Index 2 is going to be announced in this or next month?

[weak bluff]

Almost impossible

Very unrealistic

[warm stirrup]

Like 0.0000001% chance of that

[sour quartz]

Can someone quickly list the rough steps to linking quest 2 to pcvr? i've done it before, but now i have a pc (used a laptop) and it was like 2 years ago, i can't remember quite how

[weak bluff]

Install oculus software, plug cable then start oculus link in your headset menu

Assuming you are up to date

[sour quartz]

okay

and than i can just boot up steamvr right?

[weak bluff]

You just start steamvr then Oculus will automatically launch steamvr

Its automatic so... It might fail and by then you should redo entire thing

My failure rate of failing auto launch is about 1%

[sour quartz]

okay

[haughty thistle]

Once you had run SteamVR you can start it again from the Oculus PC Library, as if it's a game you bought through the Oculus PC app

[sour quartz]

oh okay

[sour quartz]

alright well, just downlaoding steamvr now, but i was able to really easy get quest link working, to the point where i could access my pc through the headset

[weak bluff]

Its easy yes

Wasnt always like that

[sour quartz]

yeah lol, i remember struggling so hard to get it to work last year

now my only problem is that my front io usb c port has neither the bandwith nor power to do vr without crashing, so either i may invest in a cable that can actually utilise my ports, or a usb c io add in card since i don't have any usb c on my motherboard

any recommended cables or cards?

[jolly marsh]

hi guys, you guys think how many years of future are left for the quest 2? maybe i can get to buy them

[weak bluff]

Its good dont worry

At minimum it last longer than Quest 1

[jolly marsh]

how many years you say?

[little plinth]

probably 2 more years

[sour quartz]

You could wait an spend a little extra on a q3 and get probably another 5 years out of it

[little plinth]

Quest 1 is pretty much about to completely die

yeah considering quest 3 is still coupl months away

enough to save up extra

[weak bluff]

Quest 2 is healthy and Meta themself are confident with long support

[little plinth]

using it for standalone or pcvr?
there are better options like maybe the G2 for PCVR

[weak bluff]

Also Quest 2 successor should have same feature with only performance uplift so the rest of hardware compatibility will match really well

[jolly marsh]

want it for summer so i cant wait lol

[jolly marsh]

first idea was only steamvr but if i have standalone i will use it of course

we can talk about piracy here?

[little plinth]

yes just not how to get one

but in general it's fine

[jolly marsh]

its easy to get apks and sideload them to q2?

im not going to get into a nintendo-like ecosystem, the games for it are expensive asf

@little plinth

[little plinth]

there is sidequest for sideloading but it is not for piracy

simply a place to get stuff that is not in the oculus store

[jolly marsh]

there's not like a dedicated repo for all of the apks like its for apple with appdb

[jolly marsh]

and how's the steamvr gameplay as it's not native streaming

[little plinth]

No idea

I use pico 4

With ALVR app

But it's good

[jolly marsh]

you use any fancy routers like wifi 6 or that?

[little plinth]

My setup consists off:
-Gigabit ethernet switch
-36ft/10m Cat 7 ethernet cable
-144Mbps Ethernet to USB A
-USB C to USB A 3.0 + USB C (PD)

So it's wired

[jolly marsh]

you use the pico 4 wired?

[little plinth]

But idk if ethernet works on q2 but it works on pico 4

Yea wired gives better performance and cheaper than wifi 6

[weak bluff]

That 144Mbps might bottleneck if you have good CPU and new 300Mbps updated encode limit

[little plinth]

Plus i got a 10meter cable
I don't feel tethered

[jolly marsh]

for that use a link cable no?

[little plinth]

ALVR only works via network, same with virtual desktop. Meaning ethernet or wifi

Oh and i got this Cat 7 ethernet bundled with my pico 4 since it's used (1 month used, never actually used actively)

So in total i think i spent $40

The ethernet adapter, i already got since before the pico 4 so i guess that takes $10 from the total

Now this works with pico 4, doesn't mean it will work with Q2

I heard Q2 is more restrictive here with ethernet adapter refusing to work

I don't own it

So that's all i know

[jolly marsh]

bro you crazy lol

but like good crazy

[little plinth]

I got a 2200G so that shit can't do shit

And i only got a 3060. On HEVC encoder latency gets too high on big bitrate

On H264 I'd need to crank bandwidth higher

The adapter seems to die above 95mbps so I'll need to get better ones

[jolly marsh]

and wireless with no fancy routers goes good or if i want steamvr need to be wired yes or yes?

@little plinth

[little plinth]

It's subjective

But with shit router it's objectively not good

With a wifi 6 router it's subjective

Some love the freedom, some hate the marginal increase of latency

[weak bluff]

HEVC is bandwidth efficient not power efficient

Man this is why AV1 is such a big deal its both bandwidth and power efficient

[jolly marsh]

for you to prospect I have a house with 3 floors

1st floor got the ISP router with the fibre cable to it
2nd floor and 3rd floor a Mikrotik router with Atheros AR9300 (idk which wifi gen it uses) connected to the ISP router downstairs using cat6

i prob will want to play it in my room alonside my pc (cable link obviously) or in the 3rd floor where i have like a 5x5m uninterrupted play space

[little plinth]

Isn't AV1 even heavier for encode.
It's a big deal for streaming mainly because it is even more bandwidth efficient and not hard to decode

But encoding is pretty heavy

And ALVR looks noticably more meh than streaming assistant on pico 4 tbh
But i use it because it's more CPU friendly

And can do foveated render

[jolly marsh]

Is AV1 encoding supported to VR?

AV1 encoding was driven by the GPU no?

It can be a really big deal for me, i have a beefy GPU (Rx 6700xt) so maybe it's worth it?

[weak bluff]

There are no vr headset supporting AV1 yet

And AV1 supported GPUs are onlys starting to pop up from RTX 40 series, RX 7000 and Intel Arc Alchemist

[tawdry dove]

depends on preset

av1 can be pretty fast

[harsh niche]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAhce2OgZu4

how tf did i just hear about this

[haughty thistle]

Zucc revealed it like an hour before the Meta Gaming Showcase last week...

[harsh niche]

😂 I guess I’m just out of the vr loop

[haughty thistle]

You can't be so out of the loop that you missed the Apple Virtual Cinema ehh... I mean Vision Pro?

[little plinth]

looking at ready player one again. this junk shit is actually less sophisticated that our current solution

[little plinth]

eh the quest 2 is no where near the visual quality and tracking capability of vision pro

it would be a more fair comparison if it's an index

even then it's still far as index is stuck to base stations

quest pro? that's nearly half your budget

[sullen linden]

still, would you rather have a high end gaming setup or a gimmick headset that only lasts 1.5-2h on battery?

[little plinth]

that gimmick headset is basically an entire macbook

you're sacrificing one thing or the other

[sullen linden]

an entire macbook has a keyboard and a trackpad, and lasts more than 2hr on battery

[little plinth]

on the meme you sent
you get a quest 2 that is horrible in comfort, low fidelity, subpar tracking

needs to be tethered at all time for PCVR

because standalone its shit

or if you get the quest pro

you're not getting the 4090 PC

even if you stick with Q2 that 4090 PC is stuck at home

[sullen linden]

.

[little plinth]

an entire macbook without the headset

a macbook with a say quest pro is already near the price point yet again

also do you really come in this channel just to send a shitty meme?

[sullen linden]

you said that the gimmick headset is an entire macbook

[little plinth]

it basically is

it has the M2 chip

[sullen linden]

basically

both have the same chip, and? point still stands.
gimmick headset doesn't have keyboard and trackpad and isn't as productive as the macbook

[little plinth]

and we really making fun of apple when some varjo headset is like 8000 dollars on top of a 1k/yr subscription

and still need a PC

if you wanna jump on a hate train at least be more informed

[sullen linden]

varo aero is 2k euros

[sullen linden]

I am not on the hate train

[little plinth]

that's not their top shit

[sullen linden]

thats the one available to consumers

[little plinth]

that's still $2k without a PC

and still not as high def as apple's

[sullen linden]

so get a PC with the remaining 1500

[little plinth]

and still stuck to a PC

[sullen linden]

and that PC of apples can't play games.

[little plinth]

because it's not made for games

you're like one of those AMD fanboys that thinks GPUs are only for games

try bringing your varjo aero to a plane

[sullen linden]

lol you really think people gonna render on the apple vision pro?

[little plinth]

oh wait you can't even move to a different room because of basestations

[little plinth]

well they can if they want, the M2 is more than capable
and apple showed off 3d render as one of the capabilities

[sullen linden]

oh wait vision pro only lasts up to 2hr on battery

[little plinth]

oh wait other headset is straight up 0 hour battery because they're tethered

[sullen linden]

not a fair comparasion

spend that 1500 on a quality laptop

then its fair

[little plinth]

goodluck powering an index on a plane

and a laptop for 1500 gonna get you something mid

not to mention the vision pro isn't even meant for consumer
it's a first gen product for developers to prepare the ecosystem on

[devout trail]

A 1500 dollar laptop will give you horrid performance on a HMD you spent 2k on…..that’s just dumb

[little plinth]

like how the first gen apple watch was

[sullen linden]

a 1500 laptop can defeat a m2 in perf

[little plinth]

good luck

because m2 literally fights AMD's best Zen 4 mobile CPU

[sullen linden]

source?

[devout trail]

Lol yeah no….a mobile 3060 level laptop is not going to be the difference between amazing and crap compared to an M2.

[little plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaOpgtZR4GI&t=437s

[sullen linden]

that isn't the point nevertheless.

[little plinth]

still barely enough

and don't forget any laptop that can actually beat m2 in GPU will die in an hour

and can't run on full power without charging

soo good luck doing that on a plane

[devout trail]

It is. That’s what would make people buy it versus not….

[little plinth]

my friend with a 3060 laptop need a big ass brick charger

[devout trail]

More people are going standalone. Just facts of the world bud.

[little plinth]

the apple vision pro is expensive as fuck
but it is a first gen device for developers

there isn't any softwares yet so developers need to get their hands on it first

then say the Apple Vision Air come out for 1/2 the price

[sullen linden]

dislike ratio doesn't look healthy, and he doesn't provide enough benchmark and just makes points that its plugged in and doesn't show benchmarks where its running on battery

[devout trail]

It sucks. Because I believe index still the best but that vision pro is a MacBook in a headset and any 1500 dollar laptop isn’t going to match it in its respective category. No matter how awesome a HMD will look and feel.

[little plinth]

dislikes isn't even visible and return youtube dislike is unrealiable as hell

[devout trail]

Lol dislike counters are junk….

Haven’t been relevant for awhile.

[sullen linden]

unreliable? who says that.
its quite reliable and normal benchmarks videos doesn't have such bad ratios, none at all.

[little plinth]

youtube doesn't give access to the API that allows for viewing dislikes

these extensions are literally guessing

[devout trail]

Lol lots of actual YT content makers do….like the ones who own this discord for one lol….

[little plinth]

educated guess but a guess nonetheless

[devout trail]

Linus even makes a joke about the dislikes being crap….

It’s in his pay for 4k YouTube video lol

[sullen linden]

they aren't literally guessing, comparasion of two LTT videos.

[little plinth]

and how do you know they're accurate

do you have the actual dislike

from LTT themselves

[sullen linden]

nobody says they're accurate, but they're a good estimate

[little plinth]

they're not even a good estimate

their only basis of data is other extension users which is a very small portion of users

which also can be affected by statistical bias

like how people who have the extension is more likely to dislike the video than the majority
causing the view to represent false information

[sullen linden]

everybody is affected by statistical bias, but you can notice when a video has significantly more dislikes than normal dislikes a creator getes.

[little plinth]

read my last sentence again

and it's also your confirmation bias

oh i don't like this video and like minded people also dislike it
it must be true

[devout trail]

Exactly. Now with it requiring an extra step to dislike no one cares as much and it gives bad information

[sullen linden]

your last sentence is based on your guesses, you are also affected by the confirmation bias as we saw

[little plinth]

confirmation bias is only accepting data that confirms to your view and ignoring the rest

my sentence has nothing to do with it

[sullen linden]

I haven't said about your last sentence being confirmation bias

[little plinth]

can you even do reading comprehension on your own message

[sullen linden]

I didn't say it being confirmation bias? I didn't even specify which ones were

[little plinth]

and the apple vision pro is not a device for me or you

you might be happy with being stuck at home for the VR headset

hell even stuck on a single room with basestation based headset

but a lot of people value being able to use it anywhere

like well on a plane

[devout trail]

Lol or just not with a damn cord attached.

Simple as that. Some people use it at home in the same room everyday. They don’t want the cord.

[little plinth]

plus that external battery can be easily easily be switched for bigger ones

and again

a first gen device

made for developers

and everyone who tried it said it's miles better than everything else

source: MKBHD and MrWhosetheboss

[sullen linden]

this is swaying from apple vision pro and more towards other things

[devout trail]

Exactly. Dude says it like a small thing the size of your wallet in you pocket giving it way more battery life kinda moots that whole 2 hr crap…

[little plinth]

i'm literally talking about the vision pro

honestly you're lost

it's not even worth continuing

[devout trail]

Yeah and it’s a pro…if you think that’s the only one that’s going to exist then yeah….oof

[little plinth]

and ffs your first message in this channel is that ignorant meme

[devout trail]

They’re going to have a lower priced model when they can shove a max or pro variant in it and continue to sell the original model for 2k years after it’s been superseded.

[sullen linden]

swaying from the topic once again

[devout trail]

You’re not even talking VR shut up dude…..

He’s talking about the vision pro…..

[little plinth]

you're literally the one not responding to my argument and just keep saying i'm swaying

[sullen linden]

oh pardon me forgot the vision pro is mixed reality!

[little plinth]

your only reason you're in this channel is to send an ignorant meme so i don't expect you to have much experience with VR in the first place as well

[devout trail]

Oh I see you’re just hellbent on being politically correct. Well no one thinks a crap laptop and a HMD is better than the vision pro. Bye bye scrub.

[little plinth]

and before you say i'm "swaying"
i've been saying that vision pro is a first gen product for developers

and for $3500 for basically the most advanced VR device on the planet

it's a bargain

look at Varjo XR3

8000 dollars behemoth

[devout trail]

It is for sure. It’s early adopter and bragging rights lol

[sullen linden]

mixed reality* not VR

[devout trail]

No one cares bud move along

[little plinth]

mixed reality device is a device capable of both VR and AR

even a quest 2 and pico 4 is a mixed reality devicew

you're just being pedantic now

[sullen linden]

no need for hostility, and a 1500$ laptop isn't crap, you seem to think everything apple doesn't make is crap

[devout trail]

Me and my Corsair One i300 beg to differ.

[sullen linden]

a laptop that you can use for more than 2 hours is better than vision pro and its gimmicks

[little plinth]

good luck trying to use a laptop with a GPU in it for more than 2 hours

even a laptop with a 3060 will die in under 2 hours

[devout trail]

No need for stupidity either but you care more about trying to correct someone than actually arguing your point to begin with.

[little plinth]

and again
it's an external battery

[devout trail]

Lol sure will….

[little plinth]

you can easily just carry 2

or have one bigger one

[sullen linden]

oh then wonderful! it's as good as the vision pro.
and those 2hr estimates are of Apples, it says up to so it might even be 1hr with heavy rendering

[devout trail]

Yeah and honestly if you have a decent enough charger you can come close to 12 hours

[sullen linden]

there is no doubt a 3060 mobile will be better than a M2

[little plinth]

i mean it's impressive it can render alone lmao

you need a laptop and the headset

for windows based ones

[devout trail]

Yep but I don’t have to carry the laptop too…..duh.

[little plinth]

and still last under 2hours

[sullen linden]

it has a M2 chip ofc

[little plinth]

your solution needs both a laptop and the headset

the vision pro can do it alone

[sullen linden]

I talked about a laptop + headset combo like ages ago, no need to bring it up

[little plinth]

which makes it an inferior solution

and weaker too

[sullen linden]

get nreal at that point

[devout trail]

You just fucking said it again less than 2 minutes ago…..are you blind….

[sullen linden]

specify

[devout trail]

This^

[sullen linden]

and the headset was about a VR one, not mixed reality

[little plinth]

a 3060 mobile is not gonna beat the M2 in any productivity based application

[devout trail]

It’s reference to your laptop and headset combo don’t try n say oh i just said it’s better than it gpu side

[sullen linden]

its talking about the processing power of the GPU

[little plinth]

mixed reality is both VR and AR

the vision pro can be dialed to be fully VR

do you even watch the keynote

or just see meme and join the bandwagon

and a Quest Pro is also mixed reality

so idk why it's your talking point

so is a Quest 2, 3, Pico 4

[devout trail]

He’s just on about now how the 3060 is better. He just keeps moving the goalposts lol

[little plinth]

and no a 3060 mobile is not gonna beat M2 in productivity applications

in games? sure

but vision pro is not made for it

[sullen linden]

what kinds of productivity?

[little plinth]

and it doesn't need a laptop to run

[sullen linden]

photo editing?...

[devout trail]

First it was how the combo is better than it….now it’s just the gpu power…..soon it’ll be price to performance or some@other useless metric

[little plinth]

care to actually show what benchmark it is

instead of half cropped ones

[sullen linden]

cinabench

[little plinth]

cinebench does not show real world performance

[devout trail]

Lol cinebench is your metric

Oh god….

[sullen linden]

there is no doubt a 3060 has more graphical performance than a m2 chip

[little plinth]

this should be common knowledge

[sullen linden]

what shall we use? blender? what do you want my good king?

[devout trail]

Lol now I’m actually having fun.

[devout trail]

Keyword there is should. Apparently that didn’t make it to some.

[little plinth]

adobe premiere pro

davinci resolve

solidworks

after effects

HEVC encode

[devout trail]

Lol yeah my m2 pro 16 destroys my 4080 in photo work mostly too. It’s quite embarrassing. Did even worse with the 3080ti before it too lol.

[sullen linden]

this is more of optimisation than raw graphical power

[little plinth]

so?

doesn't matter

[devout trail]

Once you have a real understanding of what the M series will be able to do once actually fully utilized will make 3060 level cards nonexistent in the discrete market

[little plinth]

what works in the real world matters more

i don't give a fuck if a desktop GPU is 2x more in raw power if it's half the speed in actual work

and mourer you own both a 4080 and an m2?

that's good that we have someone with actual experience with the devices

[zinc timber]

Hardware accelerators op

[devout trail]

Yep, 3080ti in my Corsair one, 4080 in my other desktop and a m2 iPad Pro and m2 pro MBP

[zinc timber]

Also why Intel smashes amd for video work

[little plinth]

QuickSync goes hard

[devout trail]

This is where Apple rocks with photos compared to my 4080

That optimization be just da shit!

[little plinth]

i am definitely no apple fan
i regularly mock them pricy fucks
but credits where its due

[devout trail]

And I have a 12900k and a 13900 for each desktop respectively

Oh bro. I know they suck in our departments but man….slaying some ff14 online for 6+ hours at 90fps NOT plugged in! Find me something else that can do that!

No windows based laptop comes close…..

[little plinth]

and really comparing vision pro with a laptop + headset combo is not fair
best alternative is the $1500 Quest pro that has way shittier resolution, inferior lenses
trash hand tracking, way worse eye tracking etc

and an outdated SoC

[sullen linden]

m2 on pugetbench premiere vs 3060 laptop

[little plinth]

the M2 smokes the XR2 by 10 miles

[devout trail]

Jesus Christ dude. Go buy each one and see for yourself.

[little plinth]

200 difference while eating under half the power the windows laptop use

and really you can't argue with someone who actually uses both

and have first hand experience

[sullen linden]

mourer has a 4080, not a 3060 mobile

[little plinth]

the M2 works better than a 4080

sure as hell it works better than a 3060

[devout trail]

Lol careful bud. I have quite a few machines

[little plinth]

A > B and B > C
then A > C
simple logic

[devout trail]

I have a desktop 3060 in my hands so I can def compare

Much closer than your web searching can lol

[little plinth]

the vision pro is expensive but it can do things others can't

i'd like to see a desktop + quest combo be used on a cafe

[devout trail]

You rock dude! Lol I love it!

[sullen linden]

these also have integrated, we don't know which one is being used anyways

[little plinth]

not to mention the quest needs constant wifi 6 router connection between the two devices

or tethered by a short cable

[zinc timber]

Pretty sure quick sync is actually better than GPU when supported

[sullen linden]

we aren't talking about the quest, quest is VR

[zinc timber]

Quick sync is wildly fast

[little plinth]

what else do you want

[devout trail]

2nd one says nvidia card bud….same processor series would be weaker lol

[little plinth]

you said we're talking about vr not mixed reality

[sullen linden]

yep, I have quick sync lemme try that

[little plinth]

then now we're not?

QuickSync performs best paired with an Nvidia GPU and a capable CPU

[sullen linden]

is vision pro VR?

[little plinth]

it is

that's what mixed reality is

if you actually been reading

VR/AR is mixed reality

[sullen linden]

so what can it run

[little plinth]

that's what you know, mixed is

running in an entirely virtual environment

it can do that

[sullen linden]

no?

[little plinth]

and no VR is definitely not games only

if that's what you think

[devout trail]

He’s still gonna prove the 3060 is better in some graph based environment…..not reality though

[zinc timber]

Man a standalone headset with an M2 is gonna be wild

[sullen linden]

I think you're confusing them

[little plinth]

i can't expect more from a gamer head

"can't do games then bad"

like AMD fanboys

[sullen linden]

a 3060 can do things a M2 can't

[devout trail]

Just think! It’s gonna be so awesome! Then if they get a m2 pro or max!

[little plinth]

and an M2 standalone can do things a 3060 can't

like be used without charging and dying in 1 hour

[sullen linden]

like?

[sullen linden]

lol vision pro suffers from the same fate

[zinc timber]

Fit inside an HMD lmao

[little plinth]

the M2 don't need to be charged to be full power

and the vision pro can do it alone without a laptop

[devout trail]

Dude just give it up. Your 3060 is crap compared to an m2. Consumers agree….and even developers agree lol

[little plinth]

the vision pro has a pretty meh battery life because the battery is tiny

if you switch the external battery the size of macbook's battery it will last as long

[devout trail]

If my 3080 fails against an M2 a 3060 mobile will do WORSE.

[sullen linden]

which devs?

[devout trail]

The ones the guy just showed you above with quick sync where an intel gpu slapped the hell out of the 3080

[sullen linden]

oh

yeah

can't say anything bout that, W intel

[devout trail]

My point. The m2 is a SOC. Now you build me something like the new AMD chip that has the high gpu count and shove some ram in it…..now the M2 is in trouble

[little plinth]

the vision pro runs without a laptop
that alone is a W

no other standalone headset come close

and it's very clear it's not for the consumers

[devout trail]

That’s why the m2 is better than most compared hardware. It’s ram, chipset, stupid high interconnect that amd not intel have all fabbed together. Until they build something along those lines the m series will always be able to compensate for the brute force of high end GPUs

[little plinth]

it's very well not worth it for $3500

but you can't deny it's better than the rest

[devout trail]

I mean I can’t say it’s not worth until I get my hands on it

[little plinth]

and for the most advanced wearable technology on the planet it's a bargain when a varjo xr3 is 8000 dollars with a 1000/yr subscription

[devout trail]

Depends on what you get with that subscription

[little plinth]

and when something like the vision air comes out it will be wild

it's 8000 dollars AND 1000 a year

to use the headset

[sullen linden]

I mean you can use better examples, nreal air is 379$ and connects to a mac giving you AR

[little plinth]

the nreal visual fidelity is shit

the controls is shit

it can't run without a mac

it's fully AR without VR capability

no eye and hand tracking

[sullen linden]

its 379, like 15% of the price.

[little plinth]

you pay for what you get

that's like saying don't get a lambo

get this russian lada

because it's 10% the price

no

you want a different experience

don't get this gaming pc
get this potato pc for $50

see how dumb it sounds

[sullen linden]

but spending 3500$ on a headset that has limited use cases sounds dumb

[little plinth]

3500 to have the most advanced device ever created

[sullen linden]

what?

[little plinth]

it is the most advanced consumer device ever created

[sullen linden]

still over the line

[little plinth]

i mean for you sure

but many is willing to pay for the experience

[sullen linden]

we'll see.

[little plinth]

there's a difference with someone who actually has money and wants the best

and

someone who's fine with nreal's shitty quality

different segment of the market

not comparable in the slightest

[sullen linden]

yeah

[little plinth]

and who made the comparison? you

[sullen linden]

you compared it to a inferior device that was 8k, so I gave you a inferior device that was 379$ instead of 8k

[little plinth]

i said 3500 for the most technologically advanced device

the varjo xr3 is another technologically advanced device

the best in the market before vision pro comes

and the fact that the vision pro is less than half the varjo

is impressive

[sullen linden]

indeed, we need to wait for the tech to mature further to get a accurate conclusion of it, I agree it looks exciting.

[rustic garnet]

fckin frfr

@lime pewter are you actually 17

[harsh niche]

i saw that one, but not the Quest 3 for whatever reason

[rustic garnet]

did the apple announcement bring all the morons out of the woodworks

[grim siren]

It always does. Because hitting the dead horse of poking fun of, defending of or anything in between just goes in to super mega drive the day of and the weeks after. Apple hasn’t released a new product line since the Apple Watch. So these people have been really chomping at the bit.

This horse will be ridden hard and beat to dust until someone of reasonable reputation get their in depth hands on and demonstration of the device and even then you will have a bunch of people who will never touch it with tons of opinions.

[zinc timber]

Eh, it's probably the future of tech interaction so they'll have to suck it up eventually

Apparently Google/Samsung/Qualcomm are coming out with something too

[burnt oasis]

not in gaming definitely not

[weak bluff]

And it is not meant for gaming

[zinc timber]

Console gamers when you tell them that computers can do more than game

[weak bluff]

Its not for gaming but I was expecting at least gaming as afterthought

[cobalt geyser]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/832487130957217792/1115807494082674699/cy6aap2moe4b1.png

[weak bluff]

this meme is circulating so often now

[zinc timber]

Who in their right mind thinks that nobody will develop games for this

[zinc timber]

Quest 2 lmao

The real joke is comparing that to a high end headset

[weak bluff]

No one. Not as long monetization potential is small.

But I would consider if like I make iPad apps and add small addition that works on headset.

Since this runs iPad apps

For example if VRChat releases iOS version of the app, they can do small work to add full view compatibility with Quest like controls for the headset and it won't cost much development time.

But Apple is not even giving us that option. They only let developers make apps in windowed mode and 3D space.

[drifting barn]

I think the apple headset will only be worth it if they have a good ecosystem at launch, because regardless of headset quality no software to run on it is a problem

[lime pewter]

No, nearing 21
But go ahead and think whatever y’all want…
don't worry, won't be seeing me here anymore
no point talking when the only things people can think of responding with is things like "uhm, let me think... I know the best response!!, hey hey you are brain dead!!"
says a lot about their level...

[zinc timber]

At bare minimum, it'll run ipad+iOS and extend a mac

Also Disney is planning a day one app, iirc

[drifting barn]

what VR apps are on IOS

[zinc timber]

Apple is also likely to leverage their purchase of that vr sports company

[drifting barn]

mabye

i still cant afford one and think that most other headsets are probably fine

[zinc timber]

This is not a mass market device

[drifting barn]

it is not

[zinc timber]

This one is for devs, businesses and rich people

[drifting barn]

I am none of those things

[zinc timber]

We'll probably see a cheaper one with an A-series chip and maybe lower specs in a couple years

[drifting barn]

yeah, we will also probably see similar performance non-apple ones in that timeframe as well, I am generally not an apple person

[zinc timber]

Doubt it tbh

I don't think apple is making much money off this one

So unless a bunch of other companies have cash to burn

[drifting barn]

you can always count on somebody to try and beat apple at their own game

[haughty thistle]

The Apple headset is in a weird niche of its own. It's better then the Quest Pro is most regards, but it lacks the software and controllers of the Quest Pro.
It's also kinda like a budget standalone Varjo XR-3, but it lacks the compute power to properly be considered a competitor...

[little plinth]

technologically it is the most advanced whether it's for gaming or not

[little plinth]

exactly what the vision pro is for

not to mention it will release next year

apple is still giving time to devs to learn and develop for it

[little plinth]

people really be comparing vision pro to quest 2
-brick on your head that's uncomfortable af to use
-stuck to the gaming PC because it's a joke standalone
-fresnel lenses and low resolution
-still black and white passthrough
-an order of magnitude weaker SoC

[zinc timber]

We know that it can stream wirelessly from a Mac, though

Whether the bandwidth for full VR exists isn't clear

[zinc timber]

Yeah, quest 3 should get closer, but I think the most important bits from the avp are the screens, the interface and the eyesight

[haughty thistle]

It can only do that for flat applications tho. Spacial apps have to run on the built-in M2.
I assume they did it this way to avoid any potential wireless latency bottlenecks...

(the SDK needed for spacial apps only runs on visionOS, thus it can be concluded that it has to run on the headset)

[weak bluff]

Apple mentions zero about VR nor AR

Apple made this with no interest in making a VR headset

Controller is not a focus and will probably become an after thought like Apple Pencil

[harsh niche]

it would be cool if one day game developers somehow start making games for it if they use the ar to its full potential

and the wide variety of sensors

I could see a crazy horror game where it’s inside your own house in AR happening

and taking advantage of the eye trackers to do spooky things

but

wishful thinking

the hardware is amazing but the software is really holding it back from its true potential

[weak bluff]

Vision Pro remains unattractive due to how inaccessible it is

[zinc timber]

for game design reasons
probably hard

[dense drift]

Got some Mario Kart AR vibes

[faint dagger]

Hey folks, I have a friend that plays Microsoft flight sim and only microsoft flight sim, in VR, using a Reverb G2. He has a 1070 and it's struggling, does anyone know what would be a decent card for him to jump to? benchmarks for this seem pretty non-existant.

[haughty thistle]

I'd say something like a 3080 at minimum. Also, the more VRAM the better. The G2 can be quite VRAM hungry I've noticed...

[faint dagger]

He can afford a bit more with his budget, looking around £1k, wondering if the 7900XTX would be a good choice.

[weak bluff]

7900XTX will perform same as 6900 XT for now

Unless he is willing to gamble that AMD will fix the issue, its been since launch and they still have not fixed performance issue

[faint dagger]

Managed to find something on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEMXfhjpwlo and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8POCSacLstg

The big number at the top I'm guessing is frame rate, looks like the 3080 outperforms the 7900XTX? crazy 😮

although 30fps on both seems a bit meh

[weak bluff]

7900 XTX have a driver issue

Sometimes perform worse than 6900 XT

[faint dagger]

I see, so atm nvidia is the way then, which I guess narrows it down to either the 3080, 4070, 4070ti, or push the budget a bit for a 4080?

I mean, there is also the point that we ran it on my 3080 + index, and that's what made my friend run out and buy a Reverb G2 in the first place 😂 so I know the 3080 can do it alright

[burnt oasis]

wouldnt a 6800xt or 6950xt better?

[haughty thistle]

I'm not too familiar with how AMD fares in comparison to Nvidia cards. Sorry ^^"
What I know is that you'd preferably want 3080 performance at minimum for a really good experience at native res on the G2...

[burnt oasis]

thought amd performs the same as flatscreen when it comes to native dp headsets

[haughty thistle]

As long as whatever AMD card you go with can match that for VR, you should be fine. 7000 cards apparently have a bug that makes them less desirable for VR then 6000 cards. Other then that, yeah...

[burnt oasis]

because no need to encode abs decompress

[haughty thistle]

Stereoscopic rendering is quite different from flat game rendering, so there can be (and in the case of RX 7000 is) a difference in performance between flat and VR...

Also, Rendering for VR requires quite a bit of resolution overhead to account for the effects that the lens pre-distortion has on the image. The G2 at native renders at about 3200x3200 per eye (so about 6400x3200 total pixels, but because of stereoscopic synchronized rendering the 3D scene only needs to be prepared once; shaders need to be calculated twice however)

[hearty mica]

I recently bought the Valve Index. I know they have built-in headphones and a microphone, but what can I get if I want a better quality one?

[haughty thistle]

They already are like extremely good? They may not be super bassy, but they're pretty much bang on flat tuned. Almost audiophile quality I'd say...

Otherwise, the Index does have a 3.5mm headphone jack beneath the face gasket, in case you absolutely have to use your own cans

[hearty mica]

My Problem is more the privacy that I don't have

[haughty thistle]

Ah. Wanna watch the P word in your parents living room I see 😏
Well, like I said, there's a headphone jack on the headset, so anything that isn't too bulky around the ears should fit just fine...

[little plinth]

Playing vr did some wild shit to my dreams

It's quite surreal

[zinc timber]

AMD is not great for vr, generally

[grizzled field]

the marques brownlee video on the apple headset says there will be no controllers not even as an after thought

good video btw you should watch it, I'm usually not a fan of him but this one was pretty good

[weak bluff]

Apple said the same with styluses

¯_(ツ)_/¯

no intention other than fingers

i watched him

[grizzled field]

lol who knows then, I kind of hope they allow third-party periphrials, so you could buy a non apple controller

after paying the STEEP price for the headset itself, buying anything else from apple would probably be too expensive

[weak bluff]

Apple designed software with only hand tracking for now and that is what they want

controller is a novelty popular and perfect for games

Apple have no need and no want to do that

[grizzled field]

yeah I suppose, apple is the kind of company to not leave users much wiggle room, kind of lock things down to be what they want

[weak bluff]

they dont even use the word virtual reality or vr even once in presentation altho later they said more about something similar

[zinc timber]

and they haven't done styluses?
the only thing they've released is the apple pencil, but that serves a different function

the pencil is not the primary pointing device, it's specifically targeting for handwriting and drawing

[weak bluff]

yes that is a stylus

[zinc timber]

much in the same way that a gamepad is a mouse, sure

[grizzled field]

I hope they never add a controller for the headset

I think they should go full on awesome and do a haptic glove

[weak bluff]

rather than stylus the full answer is Steve Jobs say best way to interact is with finger and stylus is not a good way

[zinc timber]

I think it'll take a while for the tech to be good enough for apple to actually be willing to do that

[weak bluff]

and to end quote about stylus from Steve Jobs: "yuck"

[grizzled field]

yeah, but it will take a while for the headset to be affordable enough for anyone to buy it

[zinc timber]

I dunno, I don't think apple will ever go for a glove

they really clearly don't consider VR to be the primary use case

like, when you boot up the headset, it puts you into passthrough mode by default

[weak bluff]

If apple ever do glove (unlikely) it will happen after numerous other companies try

and it cant come from startups

unless apple aquires it

[grizzled field]

thats true, what I really want is for apples headset to be not the main one but what ushers in a new era, lol after reading Ready Player One, I really want the OASIS to become a thing

[weak bluff]

they have no intention to do that

[grizzled field]

apple would never make something like that though

[weak bluff]

na ah if there is its 3rd party

[zinc timber]

apple pretty clearly believes that the metaverse is garbage

[weak bluff]

like Hideo Kojima

but Apple have no history of successful gaming and gaming does not match their luxury brand

[grizzled field]

the metaverse is garbage, you obvi dont know what the OASIS is

[zinc timber]

oasis is literally just the metaverse?

[grizzled field]

hah hardly, go read ready player one

[zinc timber]

I don't hate myself enough to read it again

and it is quite literally the metaverse

the oasis is a second, virtual reality

[grizzled field]

first of all, it was a good book, second you didn't pay close attention because the metaverse is just a crappy VRchat last I checked, the OASIS was more of a VR MMORPG

[zinc timber]

no, it was a bunch of 80's references and a mary sue, but it is literally derived from the snowpiercer metaverse

no, it's not snowpiercer

what the fuck is that called

snow crash, that's it

[grizzled field]

well for one, that looks like a good book, I will be reading it, and again, the difference with the metaverse is it is trash from a company everyone hates, the metaverse should have been developed for like another 20 yrs, at least, before they should have even considered releasing it

[zinc timber]

the metaverse in rpo is literally run by a evil corporation

like
they're literally the antogonists
they have a private army and they kill people

[grizzled field]

haha NO that's IOI that is evil, the oasis is run by GSS, who arent the bad guys IOI is trying to take it over, have you even read the book?

[zinc timber]

I read it like five years ago

and the metaverse is basically replacing reality in rpo, so regardless

you don't actually seem to understand what the concept of the metaverse is

[grizzled field]

the real life one that facebook pulled out of their butt? no, no one cares about that one

[zinc timber]

the metaverse is essentially the internet evolved into reality

facebook hasn't managed to build it successfully

but if they did, they would make so much money

you would basically control the world

[grizzled field]

yeah I hope there are two metaverse's that clash and create competition

[zinc timber]

that would defeat the point of the metaverse

[grizzled field]

how? there are two main operating systems for your PC, does that defeat the purpose of having a computer?

you can go windows or macos

[zinc timber]

do you think the internet would be better
if there were two competing internets

how could two internets even exist simultaneously?

[grizzled field]

yeah actually that'd be kind of cool

[zinc timber]

that would never work

it'd be like if myspace and facebook existed at the same time

[weak bluff]

their business model is doomed to fail

[zinc timber]

the internet is inherently social, and that means that whichever one has the most users will eventually win

[zinc timber]

yeah, i don't think normal people actually want to live in the metaverse, so
bit of a problem there

[weak bluff]

we haev different version of "metaverse" already and none of corporate style social vr games manage to grow except VRChat

but VRChat have a different strategy

[zinc timber]

that's why apple's entry is so exciting
they've basically said "fuck the metaverse"

and since it's apple

other companies are totally gonna do the same thing

google already had AR ambitions that they didn't have the cultural pull to make socially acceptable

[weak bluff]

No because Apple does not care about metaverse becaise it is NOT.

[zinc timber]

but if apple's doing it, the odds are much better

[weak bluff]

Apple have zero care about metaverse

it does nothing that defines metaverse and does not even do VR which is what Meta is trying

[zinc timber]

meta is failing, badly, to convince people that they want the metaverse

[grizzled field]

yeah no one wants those creepy avatars shudder

[zinc timber]

it's not just the avatars

most people probably don't want a second reality

[weak bluff]

social vr games from big corpos and crypto bros are ignoring VRChat hard

they dont want VRChat style social game

they want something that can monetize everywhere you go

[grizzled field]

but thats the worst part, zuckie boys frog face with one of those avatars is freaky

[weak bluff]

heck you have to PAY to send claps and cheers in Meta's Horizons

[grizzled field]

TYRANNY

[zinc timber]

huh
apparently the vision pro has motorized ipd adjustment

https://youtube.com/watch?v=glRVGat3DPU&feature=share8

it has fans?

[weak bluff]

its an M2 processor after all

$3499 iPad machine

[zinc timber]

I guess they don't want to go for macbook air's 50C externals on your face

[weak bluff]

unlike a mac this this is 2 hours of battery life

[zinc timber]

he describes the battery as larger than a smartphone but also lighter

[cobalt geyser]

I don't know why everybody is whining about 2h battery life so much. You can just put another battery pack in your other pocket and connect that to the main one. When your external pack goes empty, you have 2 hours to unplug it and plug another one in. Easy infinite battery life.

[weak bluff]

who complained?

its just a nice to have

you can also tether instead

[tranquil flume]

BEAN

VISION PRO

[sour quartz]

Eye tracking auto ipd adjustment

[zinc timber]

is it?
I can't tell if it's supposed to be custom or not, honestly

[haughty thistle]

I can say from experience, that this is not going to end well for people with Vision correction glasses

Unless Apple somehow managed to detect exactly what distortion the correction glasses introduce and work around that for the IPD measurement. Now that I think about it, it would be such an Apple solution to put an NFC chip in each insert to tell the HMD the specs of the lenses to correct for that 👀

[zinc timber]

I mean, apparently they also need an iphone facial scan for the interface

so it's entirely possible that they just get your facial scan and prescription when you order and set it all up before it's sent out

[haughty thistle]

would ofc not work with third party insterts or regular glasses, but it's Apple, they want you to buy their solution

[acoustic loom]

I bought a rift S and i keep getting an issue that the Headset sensor check fails.
Steamvr games dont work either basically it shows me three dots that are loading infinitely and my hands on the bottom of the screen with no way to move them.
I tried entering the public test beta and now it doesnt even show me the three dots it just shows be a black screen even after i left the beta

[acoustic loom]

I'm now thinking it's because my motherboard does not have usb 2.0

[zinc timber]

usb 3.1?

[urban wolf]

how do companies tackle that issue right now

[austere sleet]

Anyone else's Index slow the computer down just by having it connected?

My friend and I both get this, and we have quite different computers

[little plinth]

because steamvr is running maybe?

[static sky]

Hi!
Im new to the VR space but I wanna get into it!
But im from australia so im kind of limited in terms of what I can get for decent price (Stuff like the valve index is 2 grand)

Whats a decent entry VR set that will still be good in future but also still reasonably priced
Any feedack would help

[little plinth]

PCVR or Standalone

Standalone, the quest 2 is still a good option since it's only $299, decent for PCVR too but link is meh according to people

PCVR and Standalone the Pico 4 can be good but standalone lacks some games. in PCVR it's one of the best fidelity headset for the price

full PCVR, the reverb G2 is even better than pico 4

and still cheap

though G2 depends on location for prices

and pico 4 you'd need to get through a reseller as they're imported

those are the three option at $400 or lower

i can only say what others say about G2 and Q2 as i don't have them
but i do own the pico 4 and i'd say it's worth it for PCVR and some use of standalone

i use it mainly for PCVR but the standalone feature do come in handy

[zinc timber]

G2 screens are beautiful, but the controllers kind of suck

They're really power hungry, they're big, and the haptics are weak

[little plinth]

forgot to mention controller tracking

according to people the G2 sucked there

[zinc timber]

Tracking is whatever

It's serviceable

[little plinth]

again i don't have personal experience so yea

[zinc timber]

I really don't recommend anything other than the quest 2 or pico

Wireless VR >>> wired

[little plinth]

i use my pico 4 over ethernet

[zinc timber]

What in tarnation

[little plinth]

significantly cheaper solution than wifi 6 router

and the latency is godly

30ms and lower

[zinc timber]

My quest 2 worked fine on a cheap wifi 5 router

[little plinth]

my ethernet cable is like godly long

10 whole meters

so i feel as free as if i use wireless

[zinc timber]

Do you have like, a USB c to Ethernet adapter hanging off the headset

[little plinth]

yes but i have a little fanny pack to bundle some part of the ethernet cable so the tension of the cable counter the light weight of the adapter

and i also keep the power bank there

[zinc timber]

See, I'm lazy so I refuse to deal with cables

[little plinth]

i need the pack for the power bank anyway

though the quest 2 i heard does not work with ethernet anyway

My setup consists off:
-Gigabit ethernet switch
-36ft/10m Cat 7 ethernet cable
-144Mbps Ethernet to USB A
-USB C to USB A 3.0 + USB C (PD)

Cat 7 is utterly overkill but i got that cable bundled with the headset when i buy it used

[zinc timber]

My setup is
Quest 2

[little plinth]

only used for like 2 days by the old owner lmao

problem is my ISP router has AP isolation which prevents local network communication

[zinc timber]

Does it not work over regular USB c

[little plinth]

which is why i use this jank setup in the first place

[little plinth]

it works over USB C but i have to use the shitty streaming assistant

ALVR only works via network

@zinc timber i tried this before kek

but i ditched this solution

i just let it hang now

[zinc timber]

I mean
They probably make USB docks with Ethernet and power?

[little plinth]

i tried finding those

[zinc timber]

I can't imagine the port is too happy with the strain

[little plinth]

and i already own this adapter before i own the headset

[zinc timber]

$0 is great value

[little plinth]

i only saw one ethernet with PD port

but that thing is shitty 100mbps limit

if i'm buying a new ethernet adapter i'm going to buy gigabit ones

[austere sleet]

Actually, we both found it slows the computer down just from being connected

Does not have to have steam running or steam vr running to slow the computer

[haughty thistle]

The sad answer is: They don't.
For headsets that have motorised IPD adjustment, they usually default to auto-IPD using the eye tracking cameras but offer an option to manually set an IPD in case this measurement is wrong. The Quest Pro and PSVR2 opted for manual IPD adjustment, and the eye tracking IPD measurement is just there to guide you to set the IPD "correctly" (which obv. only works properly with no vision correction glasses). Thankfully you can skip this step if you already know your correct IPD. In the case of the Pimax Crystal, that thing got motorised IPD adjustment but no eye tracking (they claim it has ET, but neither an SDK is ready nor is the IPD controlled by it like they originally claimed; typical Pimax stuff). With that thing there's a rocker button, like the volume rocker on your phone, but it changes the IPD.

[weak bluff]

IPD is a one time thing I prefer save few bucks on manual

[haughty thistle]

I prefer manual IPD for which you don't have to fish around with your fingers next to your eyes and fragile lenses (looking at you Quest Pro <.<)

That with a locking mechanism or motorised IPD I can manually set. That way I can be sure that the IPD is always set correctly. Had it multiple times with certain other headsets, where the adjustment wheel would get moved slightly whenever handling the headset, which resulted in a wildly different IPD after a few sessions...

The Rift CV1 did it the right way with an IPD slider that you have to press in to move

[rustic garnet]

Another CV1 win

[jolly marsh]

This rift Cv1 is red flag?

[weak bluff]

Ouch

Yes

I would buy something like this to reinforce it

Already installed mine on my link cable

[jolly marsh]

But for 120€ is not bad no?

[weak bluff]

I would buy for that price

Good price

[jolly marsh]

3 sensors also

[weak bluff]

Even better

[jolly marsh]

But that's scary, he said that it has time and it hasn't gotten worse even with heavy use

[weak bluff]

Ok then i would not bet if it already showing signs of failures

[jolly marsh]

Will buy it for sure

[weak bluff]

Please make sure it does not have history of big failure

[jolly marsh]

No, no any problem he said and showed a video of it working good

[weak bluff]

If it was me i would try to solder those cables when it breaks lol

Ive seen rare cases of Rift CV1 cable successful fixes

The fix was possible thanks to being copper cable too

[jolly marsh]

But in cv1 wasn't optic cable?

[weak bluff]

Yes i think?

Rift S did not have fiber until revision one

Someone fixed that cable so I assume it is copper

If it was fiber it would be cheaper to buy new headset since reconnecting fiber requires thousands of dollars equipment

Looks copper to me

Im highly confident

Unless CV1 has revision that i am not aware

[haughty thistle]

CV1 and Rift S cables were all copper inside

Just like how a lot of people think that the Index cable is fibre when it actuallity it's all copper as well

[little plinth]

pico 4's motorized IPD though
and the soon fully automatic eye tracking based IPD adjustment from vision pro

the vision pro's method sounds like the best one

don't even need to switch IPD when sharing the headset as it auto adjust i guess

[haughty thistle]

It's what basically all enterprised HMDs do, including the Varjo. Should've read my earlier messages (it started about the Apple Vision Pro)

[little plinth]

i wonder if quest 3 gonna be worth the purchase

[haughty thistle]

The problem is that the Auto-IPD will go wrong for people with vision correction glasses, as the eye tracking thinks you have an IPD far detached from reality. For me it measures (on both the Quest Pro and Varjo Aero) between 64.5 and 66mm, while my actual IPD is more like 67mm. It does measure 67mm when I take off my glasses, but I obv. can't use the headset like that

[little plinth]

pico 4's approach then

motorized but also user set

or can the QPro do it

[haughty thistle]

You can at least turn off Auto-IPD on the Aero and set the IPD manually through software like on the regular Pico 4. I hate the Quest Pro approach, as you have to fish around your eyes and lenses to adjust the IPD...

You either have an external slider or a motor, but not whatever the QP has...

[little plinth]

well still somewhat better than Quest 2's 3 presets

though i'm surprised the quest 3 uses a wheel instead of a motorized ipd

that thing is $500 afterall

[haughty thistle]

Prolly explained by the use of pancake optics

[little plinth]

the pico got pancake and motorized at quest 2 prices

prob heavily subsidized by pico but still

it shouldn't be pricy to implement a motorized ipd adjustment on the Q3

or maybe they're out of space or what

that thing doesn't seem actually much slimmer than the Quest 2

though good thing quest 3 exists
the day quest 2 dies cross-compatible games will finally get a graphics upgrade on pcvr 💀
cough onward

[weak bluff]

There are reports of some people who got the later version of headset received a thinner cable which then teared down has thinner daca cable as well suspected as fibre https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/11uc8f6/psa_all_rift_s_cables_will_eventually_fail_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

[haughty thistle]

The reason I mention pancakes is because the ones in the Pico are like bottom of the barrel cheapest you can go. Afaik the ones in the Quest 3 will be the same as in the Quest Pro, which are significantly higher quality, but thus also more expensive...

Plus they'll use the new Qualcomm XR2 Gen2, which is also likely to be more expensive per unit...

[weak bluff]

I digged web archive to find old dead website of their selling site page showing they sell optical https://web.archive.org/web/20200301212934/https://www.oculus.com/rift-s/accessories/

Rift S did have optical

[jolly marsh]

I don't have a lot of experience with soldering and not a good soldering iron but well if in a future I need to do that it will be funny I think lol

[jolly marsh]

Also to do that with alligator clips is an even worse headache

[weak bluff]

its not recommended to buy in hope you can prolong it via fixing

but yeah

its cheap

[jolly marsh]

Also HDMI is shielded so if a part is without the shield it wouldn't compromise the signal quality or the whole link?

[weak bluff]

i don't know

[rustic garnet]

fixing that cable on your own is next to impossible

[rustic garnet]

like i highly doubt this works

[weary yarrow]

https://www.gcrpmedia.com/post/quest-3-s-new-cooling-unlocks-way-more-performance?fbclid=IwAR1ADLigse3vvRjkk0BAw98mz4ngRBDnQR5SCeC3MHOcgN6Gruyu-j4ivIE

[weak bluff]

Its hard but it is not impossible

[dull tide]

Anyone know of any co op online games with VR compatibility?

Been playing Carrier Command 2. I think war Thunder and DCS now supports something similiar

[dull tide]

I’d be open to cooling mods to offset the new update if needed

[little torrent]

quest 3 coming out this fall 🔥🔥🔥🔥

thoughts on the apple vision pro?

[jolly marsh]

it's going to be the best headset

[little torrent]

maybe but will be be 3500 USD better?

[jolly marsh]

obviously it will not be something to buy without asking like quest 2 can be because of the price. But for it's price in the sector of AR in the factories or AR in lucrative sectors it will maybe be a safe buy